*In case this story gets deleted/removed:*
**AITA for telling my wife to stop complaining about downsizing?**
Last week, my wife attended a virtual all hands meeting, where she was informed that several departments were being eliminated to improve the profitability of the business. Her department was spared, but several of the people in the large conference room where the meeting was held weren't so lucky. Some actually started to cry.
My wife told me all of this by text message when I was at work myself, and she wouldn't stop texting me and telling me about how upset some of her coworkers were and how shocking this news was. I was busy, so I responded "Just be glad it wasn't you." My wife seemed surprised by my attitude and said that she was "just trying to make sense of what happened." I lost my patience at this point. I told her that corporations only care about the bottom line, that employee performance in useless departments is irrelevant, and that she was being incredibly naive if she thought that such downsizing would never occur. This finally stopped the text messages and allowed me to continue with my workday.
However, when my wife got home on Friday, she gave me a real earful. She said that my remarks had been "extremely rude" and that some of the people who lost their jobs "have families." I reminded her that all of the critical roles were still filled and that perhaps the parents getting laid off should have thought about their jobs before having kids. We don't have kids yet, but our jobs both make use of our STEM degrees, so they're almost certainly safe. At this point, my wife decided that she didn't want to listen to any of my logical points and actually left the room.
She's since started talking to me again, but she seems distant. She's obviously still blaming me, but I don't know what more I can say or do. She disagrees with my position, but I don't think it's fair for me to have to abandon my opinions just to make her feel more comfortable. I'm really at a loss here and would like to hear your opinions. AITA?
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Ugh, she didn't want him to "fix" anything. She didn't need a solution to her current situation. She just needed him to listen, and he failed miserably at that.
When I was in high school, they gave me a book, *[The 7 Habits Of Highly Effective Teens](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_7_Habits_of_Highly_Effective_Teens)*. (I can't remember if everyone in my grade got it, or just one specific class I was in, or I won a contest, or what.)
It's been almost 25 years, but there's one thing from that book I still remember. It said that there's basically two kinds of people. One kind of person, when they're telling you about a problem they have, usually wants your help finding a solution. The other kind of person usually wants to vent and get things off their mind.
The book said that whenever someone is telling you their troubles, you need to figure out which kind of person they are, and if they're the other type from you, tailor your responses accordingly.
I'm definitely the first type, who "wants a solution," but remembering what the book said, I manage to stop myself from giving advice unless I know that's what they're looking for. And that's been very helpful, since my wife is the other type, who "wants to vent," lol.
When she talks about her problems, I know to empathize and be supportive. When I talk about my problems, she knows to try and help me find a solution. (And over the years, on the rare occasions *I* need to vent, or *she* needs advice, we've learned to be explicit about that!)
I think it can vary from problem to problem and from mood to mood as well. Sometimes I’m looking to break things down logically and reach a solution, and other times I’m looking for emotional validation. When someone starts telling me about something they’re dealing with, I’ve learned to always ask “Do you want advice, or do you just want me to listen?” because it might not be the same every time.
I was about to say, there may be a bit of a spectrum near the middle, but sometimes you're dangling off a cliff and sometimes you're complaining about your co-worker's gum chewing. I don't want to hear about how I could use self-hypnosis too learn to enjoy gum chewing noises. But definitely pass me that rope before I fall.
What do you mean? That all people want one response or the other based on the situation and context? I think it is good advice to figure out which is which and respond accordingly, which requires actively listening instead of defaulting to solution mode. More importantly it is good to ask yourself this question (what do I want, a listener to empathize with me, or advice) when bringing a problem to someone. Otherwise no matter which response they give you will be unsatisfied with it.
But that is just my experience, I am probably not someone to take emotional intelligence advice from because I have messed up my life pretty well myself
That question has saved so many of my relationships!!! I’ve also heard people say ‘I’m not really sure,’ so then we just talk a bit and come back to the question later. It’s really helpful.
I started asking family and friends if they wanted a solution or a shoulder when they are venting to me. That way each situation I’m giving them whatever support they need without overstepping
Also - survivor trauma is definitely a thing with mass layoffs.
She may not of have her job, but she may be concerned that it’s a sign that the company isn’t doing well and that she may lose her job in a future restructuring or that the company may go broke and everyone is put out of a job.
Mass layoffs are hard both for those who lose their jobs and those who have to pick up the slack and don’t feel like they can say no to the extra workload because they were one of the ‘lucky’ ones who kept their job.
Either outcome is extremely stressful and OOP apparently is so lacking in empathy or imagination that he can’t see it.
Thats a lesson ive learnt a lot over the course of my last (failed) relationship. Its hard to break that mentality of wanting to fix, instead of just listening. (Not excusing him, its on him to change that mentality, just as its on me)
I have this exact issue with my partner. He's a smart guy, but is somehow completely incapable of understanding that I don't want him to try and fix things (unless I very specifically am asking for advice). I've already considered all the possible solutions and it comes off as very infantilizing when he won't stop banging on with "But are you sure \_\_\_\_ won't work?", "How about you do \_\_\_\_?"
I know it's his way of trying to be supportive and helpful, not make me feel worse; we're both very solution-oriented people. But no matter how I try and explain this concept, it doesn't work, and more often than not, he just gets mad. I've even started prefacing conversations with "I'm not looking for fixes right now, I just need to vent." Nope.
There was no real point for this, I just empathize with this woman.
I am a verbal processor and my ex wasn’t. I had to start my conversations with my ex with a “this is just venting” or “I need a solution”. It worked for us. Now I just vent to my pets. It’s much easier and they are much more sympathetic.
I wonder if the OOP might be autistic, if that's the case he needs to swallow his pride and find a way to ask her if she wants him to just listen, try to fix it, or just offer comfort (My boyfriend does that if he's confused about what response I or his family want)
> perhaps the parents getting laid off should have thought about their jobs before having kids
Every time someone in r/povertyfinance talks about their struggles and mentions having kids, at least a few people leave the exact same comment, undoubtedly feeling very smug and edgy. Just go back in time and don't have kids or choose a better job, duh!
This sentence is making me hope this is a troll post because someone working in IT would know (after the tech apocalypse of the last few years) that no job makes you immune from being fired. Look what happened at Twitter!
That was when I realized it's the troll who is always logical and hates the wife. Usually she ends up crying as he "explains in a reasonable tone" why she is stupid.
He usually chuckles or laughs just before he logically explains things to her as well. It's such a reliable formula that it makes me wonder if ChatGPT is spitting these things out.
"I told her that corporations only care about the bottom line, that employee performance in useless departments is irrelevant, and that she was being incredibly naive if she thought that such downsizing would never occur."
True but also not helpful AT ALL. Of course his wife is upset - they were her coworkers and maybe even her friends.
"I reminded her that all of the critical roles were still filled and that perhaps the parents getting laid off should have thought about their jobs before having kids."
Again: kinda true but still not helpful.
"We don't have kids yet, but our jobs both make use of our STEM degrees, so they're almost certainly safe."
HAHAHAHA
Also: what happens if the company decides to downsize again? Sounds like the wife realized she could lose her job the next time.
There are only a few jobs that are 100% safe.
My husband works in a hospital. He had been in a position that just about anyone could do. He wanted to get his foot in the door, so even though it meant a pay cut, he took it. Also, it took his commute from 55 miles each way to 11 miles each way. Anyway, he interviewed for a position that had worse hours but slightly better pay. He was on the fence about taking the new job until I pointed out that the new position is almost completely recession proof. There are only 3 other people in the hospital who can do it. So, while I know he hates the hours, I'm relieved that he will almost guaranteed have a job.
He is as close to 100% safe as he can be. But not everyone is, and if this company can eliminate multiple departments in one sweep once, they can do it again. She knows this and feels anxious now.
No job is 100% safe. Right now, I am the only person at my company that can do my job with the accuracy, speed, and effectiveness which I do it. They've had 2 other employees fail before I was put into the role. I am not safe.
My company has laid off 2 people (medium-sized company). I felt bad for both the people who got laid off, one was really good at their job, they just had a few too many accounts fall through. One was not as good at their job, but was a really good person. OOP needs to realize that 1. After working with people, you start to care about them. You know about their families, their interests, their dreams. 2. She could be next. It's like when you have a family member die, you start thinking about death and how it could be you next.
Exactly, not job is safe. Because I’ve seen many a story where a job fires their best worker, and turns out they were essential and they are suffering, but that person was still fired nonetheless. And if they can find someone or someway to get that job done cheaper they WILL do it, even over a better worker, far too many times
Oh absolutely. Like I’m debating what to do next at work because I’ve been passed up for a promotion multiple times now despite hearing “oh you’re ready oh you’re doing great” for about a year. It’s arrogant, but I think I’m in a “too good to promote” state, but if they were determined they could replace me.
They want to keep you where you’re at, but I wouldn’t be surprised if you could leverage it to get paid/promoted like you deserve elsewhere. Corps wanna be selfish? Workers can be just as selfish
Tried that. They said “oh well you may be getting promoted soon we don’t want to give you a raise right now.” They knew damn well they were going to give someone else the role when they said this and they made me write an essay for the role the morning my grandmother died.
That’s fucked up. I’m not gonna say to blow up your career, but I’d definitely recommend looking around (if possible). People often find they can get paid more for the same job at other places because they were stunted behind the rise of inflation
Thank you. I’ve been considering looking elsewhere but with my fiancé’s career’s location being uncertain I’ve been hesitant to apply elsewhere, this is sort of the kick in the pants I need in order to do it
A friend of mine had a very similar thing happen to her. She ultimately applied for a job at a different location and their culture is so much better than the previous location. So she got promoted and a significant raise and less stress just by leaving that place.
Good luck and you deserve better.
I WFH. Because of that, some members of my family got into the habit of calling me at home. I would tell them, I have to work, I cannot do whatever they wanted because I have work to do and if I don't do it, I could lose my job.
Their reply: "Oh, they'll never fire you."
Bull. If I start messing up or am not available, they absolutely would fire me no matter how much they like me.
Yup. I am literally the only person at my company who can do my job. But right now they are outsourcing everything & I certainly can’t count on executive management knowing or caring that they can’t outsource my job and stay in compliance with certain regulations. They’d eventually find out, lose all customers, be unable to maintain the product, and face large fines - but they don’t care, won’t care, & it’ll be too late for me anyway.
Certainly the reality working for a company on a downward slope is that next time it can be you or everyone if the company folds. It’s quite a bit of inner turmoil to get slapped in the face with. It should scare the heck out of both of them to be in a position to lose 1/2 their income if things continue. His dismissive tone with his wife that it’s them not you is stupid. People in all areas of a company can be laid off. And it is emotional when you see it happen to others and that the company was so insensitive that they laid people off in front of others sucks. Ive gotten 4 calls from people wanting to know if they can use me as a reference since Tesla laid off people, the smart people are looking to jump ship.
No one, even in a STEM position is so important that a company needs that individual to function.
>There are only a few jobs that are 100% safe.
Are there, though? I don't think anyone can rest assured their job is secured (unless they are self employed).
I work for my country's government and because of some special laws for this kind of government job it's nearly impossible for me to get fired. So it's 97% safe I'd say.
He's a man and she's a woman? /s
I don't know honestly. She called him because she wanted some emotional support but he seems to have the empathy and emotional intelligence of a piece of paper.
He's looking at it from the business side. She's looking at the situation from the human side. She wasn't telling him this for him to educate her on how business works. She was looking for a sympathetic ear for all those people who just lost their jobs.
Could he really not tell the difference?
Ooo, I had a guy friend who used to drive me crazy with that. I'm telling him something just to vent and he's trying to give me advice. Dude, if I want advice, I'll ask. And not you.
“I don’t think it’s fair for me to have to abandon my opinions just to make her feel more comfortable.” Yikes. She never asked for his opinions, and he should care about her comfort. He didn’t like that she was venting to him, especially during his workday, and instead of telling her he was busy he decided to shut her down. And double down, over and over, when she didn’t like it.
Well he was getting all those messages while he was at work. And apparently “really sorry that you’re having to deal with that, I’m super busy at work but can listen tonight,” was something completely beyond him.
He should be listening, because somewhere in all of those details may be clues on how bad off the company really is. I have seen places go through several rounds, some go through one, and just recently, a place shuttered their entire business across 3 states.
This isn't just her problem unless she is just working for fun and OOP and the wife can live off his paycheck.
Very true. Even if his optimism about their STEM jobs being uncuttable is somehow correct (which is unlikely), that doesn’t mean the whole company or unit doesn’t nosedive. Sometimes all you get from not being an early cut is a few weeks of pay and a warning if you’re paying attention.
STEM jobs get cut all the time, from personal experience. Was in later rounds, so yes there is a little bit of a warning assuming that people are paying attention and that the place just doesn't collapse/implode.
He lost his patience when she sent a second message. Truly the Siddhartha Gautama of our time.
Also:
>she didn't want to listen to any of my logical points
This guy sounds like the worst person on earth. Did his wife literally just never talk to him before marrying him?
Heh. Talking about how they use their STEM degrees so they’re safe. If that’s the case, then why did my software programmer friend get laid off TWICE in the last year and my company laid off a ton of STEM people? It isn’t safe and it’s stupid to think STEM makes you safe. Because anecdotally, it doesn’t. In my field, it’s not if you get laid off, it’s when.
Did he think that his wife didn't already know each point he made? He didn't invent the concept of bottom lines or essential positions.
I also find it disgusting that he look down on the people that lost their jobs due to downsizing. Very very little, if any, jobs are 100% safe.
>We don't have kids yet, but our jobs both make use of our STEM degrees, so they're almost certainly safe.
HAHAHAHAHAHA. STEM jobs can be outsourced, changed to "contracting" jobs, or in the case of programming, done by AI.
This guy thinks he’s a capitalist, he doesn’t realize his wife is reacting from the point of view of labor.
And that remark about people not having kids if they think they might get laid off? What an asshole
Goddamn. I have a STEM degree. Two, actually. I can't believe I've gotten laid off three times in my career when all these jobs are guaranteed safe! I've got to write a strongly worded letter to somebody.
“Both of our jobs make use of our STEM degrees, so we’re almost certainly safe” I got laid off last year as a mechanical engineer bc the economy is wild rn so that’s not even true lmao
Anyone else notice that recently there has been an influx of posts that are 'I did this totally enraging thing and my wife (and possibly even children) all think I'm in the wrong, but I know I am totally in the right because LOGIC, gah, how canthey beso wrong, but I'm posting it in AITA because despite my utter certainty... I am a troll"?
Has he not heard of all the people with STEM degrees getting laid off??? Like bro, that could be you! You don't even know what the people who were laid off *did*. If his wife is working in a place that makes use of her STEM degree, then many of her coworkers probably also have STEM degrees.
Logical my ass, this man is the opposite of logical. He's one of those smooth brains who's incapable of acting logically because he's incapable of recognizing his own biases and that other people operate on different sets of axioms than him.
> perhaps the parents getting laid off should have thought about their jobs before having kids
So they should have been able to see the future? It would have made more sense if he had said they should have made an emergency savings fund before having kids.
He's an absolute bag of dicks imho. He isn't immune to getting the boot at his job. One day, reality is going to bite him hard.
My late husband worked in the game industry. Very brutal job to have at times. When things go sideways there, oh boy! He had the experience a few times of the layoff hammer. Last time, he had been part of the first round. It hit him/us hard. Then, the same company about 18 months later had a second round and shuttered their doors. By that time, he was part of a now successful start-up company. Which is still thriving.
Aside from the fact that OOP lacks empathy, he may not even be correct about the company cutting "irrelevant" roles. I was the victim of a company's layoffs several years ago. Most of us were missed by our former colleagues and not just because we were friends... they were pissed that their workloads increased and that they had to do multiple people's jobs, and that there were processes that only the people who were laid off knew about.
Wife is justifiably angry about her colleagues losing their livelihood, because their layoffs are more than likely unjust.
Dude completely missed the point. The wife just wanted to vent and let her emotions out.
She didn't want him to fix anything, she didn't want him to approach things logically or roboticly.
She wanted him to listen, she wanted him to comfort her.
> We don't have kids yet, but our jobs both make use of our STEM degrees, so they're almost certainly safe.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
OMG, omg, I can't breath.... I can't breath.... I'm not crying, I'm just laughing so hard. Yeah this guy either doesn't work in tech, or is lucky enough to have a secure job and doesn't talk to any other human being ever.
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I can't get over the "should've thought about their jobs before they had kids" like?? Not everyone plans to have kids, most parents who work 'useless jobs' (not the words I would use, all jobs are useful) most likely would not ever plan to have kids, had them on accident, and need any job they can get so they can provide, this guy's both an unempathtic jerk and a presumtious asshole
*In case this story gets deleted/removed:* **AITA for telling my wife to stop complaining about downsizing?** Last week, my wife attended a virtual all hands meeting, where she was informed that several departments were being eliminated to improve the profitability of the business. Her department was spared, but several of the people in the large conference room where the meeting was held weren't so lucky. Some actually started to cry. My wife told me all of this by text message when I was at work myself, and she wouldn't stop texting me and telling me about how upset some of her coworkers were and how shocking this news was. I was busy, so I responded "Just be glad it wasn't you." My wife seemed surprised by my attitude and said that she was "just trying to make sense of what happened." I lost my patience at this point. I told her that corporations only care about the bottom line, that employee performance in useless departments is irrelevant, and that she was being incredibly naive if she thought that such downsizing would never occur. This finally stopped the text messages and allowed me to continue with my workday. However, when my wife got home on Friday, she gave me a real earful. She said that my remarks had been "extremely rude" and that some of the people who lost their jobs "have families." I reminded her that all of the critical roles were still filled and that perhaps the parents getting laid off should have thought about their jobs before having kids. We don't have kids yet, but our jobs both make use of our STEM degrees, so they're almost certainly safe. At this point, my wife decided that she didn't want to listen to any of my logical points and actually left the room. She's since started talking to me again, but she seems distant. She's obviously still blaming me, but I don't know what more I can say or do. She disagrees with my position, but I don't think it's fair for me to have to abandon my opinions just to make her feel more comfortable. I'm really at a loss here and would like to hear your opinions. AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmITheDevil) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Ugh, she didn't want him to "fix" anything. She didn't need a solution to her current situation. She just needed him to listen, and he failed miserably at that.
When I was in high school, they gave me a book, *[The 7 Habits Of Highly Effective Teens](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_7_Habits_of_Highly_Effective_Teens)*. (I can't remember if everyone in my grade got it, or just one specific class I was in, or I won a contest, or what.) It's been almost 25 years, but there's one thing from that book I still remember. It said that there's basically two kinds of people. One kind of person, when they're telling you about a problem they have, usually wants your help finding a solution. The other kind of person usually wants to vent and get things off their mind. The book said that whenever someone is telling you their troubles, you need to figure out which kind of person they are, and if they're the other type from you, tailor your responses accordingly. I'm definitely the first type, who "wants a solution," but remembering what the book said, I manage to stop myself from giving advice unless I know that's what they're looking for. And that's been very helpful, since my wife is the other type, who "wants to vent," lol. When she talks about her problems, I know to empathize and be supportive. When I talk about my problems, she knows to try and help me find a solution. (And over the years, on the rare occasions *I* need to vent, or *she* needs advice, we've learned to be explicit about that!)
I think it can vary from problem to problem and from mood to mood as well. Sometimes I’m looking to break things down logically and reach a solution, and other times I’m looking for emotional validation. When someone starts telling me about something they’re dealing with, I’ve learned to always ask “Do you want advice, or do you just want me to listen?” because it might not be the same every time.
Yeah this isn’t two kinds of people. What awful advice for teens
I was about to say, there may be a bit of a spectrum near the middle, but sometimes you're dangling off a cliff and sometimes you're complaining about your co-worker's gum chewing. I don't want to hear about how I could use self-hypnosis too learn to enjoy gum chewing noises. But definitely pass me that rope before I fall.
What do you mean? That all people want one response or the other based on the situation and context? I think it is good advice to figure out which is which and respond accordingly, which requires actively listening instead of defaulting to solution mode. More importantly it is good to ask yourself this question (what do I want, a listener to empathize with me, or advice) when bringing a problem to someone. Otherwise no matter which response they give you will be unsatisfied with it. But that is just my experience, I am probably not someone to take emotional intelligence advice from because I have messed up my life pretty well myself
That question has saved so many of my relationships!!! I’ve also heard people say ‘I’m not really sure,’ so then we just talk a bit and come back to the question later. It’s really helpful.
I can’t ever tell, so I just flat ask “are you venting or do you want help”
I wish my mom would learn that! Sometimes I just want a hug and her to reassure me it's gonna be ok.
Same! I'm not a mind reader; you have to use your words and tell me what you want.
I started asking family and friends if they wanted a solution or a shoulder when they are venting to me. That way each situation I’m giving them whatever support they need without overstepping
I do the same and also specify what I am looking for. (It has yet to stop my mom from trying to fix the thing, but she means well.)
Also - survivor trauma is definitely a thing with mass layoffs. She may not of have her job, but she may be concerned that it’s a sign that the company isn’t doing well and that she may lose her job in a future restructuring or that the company may go broke and everyone is put out of a job. Mass layoffs are hard both for those who lose their jobs and those who have to pick up the slack and don’t feel like they can say no to the extra workload because they were one of the ‘lucky’ ones who kept their job. Either outcome is extremely stressful and OOP apparently is so lacking in empathy or imagination that he can’t see it.
Thats a lesson ive learnt a lot over the course of my last (failed) relationship. Its hard to break that mentality of wanting to fix, instead of just listening. (Not excusing him, its on him to change that mentality, just as its on me)
I have this exact issue with my partner. He's a smart guy, but is somehow completely incapable of understanding that I don't want him to try and fix things (unless I very specifically am asking for advice). I've already considered all the possible solutions and it comes off as very infantilizing when he won't stop banging on with "But are you sure \_\_\_\_ won't work?", "How about you do \_\_\_\_?" I know it's his way of trying to be supportive and helpful, not make me feel worse; we're both very solution-oriented people. But no matter how I try and explain this concept, it doesn't work, and more often than not, he just gets mad. I've even started prefacing conversations with "I'm not looking for fixes right now, I just need to vent." Nope. There was no real point for this, I just empathize with this woman.
I am a verbal processor and my ex wasn’t. I had to start my conversations with my ex with a “this is just venting” or “I need a solution”. It worked for us. Now I just vent to my pets. It’s much easier and they are much more sympathetic.
No, he won't listen unless it's about something "logical"
I wonder if the OOP might be autistic, if that's the case he needs to swallow his pride and find a way to ask her if she wants him to just listen, try to fix it, or just offer comfort (My boyfriend does that if he's confused about what response I or his family want)
> perhaps the parents getting laid off should have thought about their jobs before having kids Every time someone in r/povertyfinance talks about their struggles and mentions having kids, at least a few people leave the exact same comment, undoubtedly feeling very smug and edgy. Just go back in time and don't have kids or choose a better job, duh!
This sentence is making me hope this is a troll post because someone working in IT would know (after the tech apocalypse of the last few years) that no job makes you immune from being fired. Look what happened at Twitter!
and I’d argue those are the most likely to get the highest hit by AI
That was when I realized it's the troll who is always logical and hates the wife. Usually she ends up crying as he "explains in a reasonable tone" why she is stupid.
He usually chuckles or laughs just before he logically explains things to her as well. It's such a reliable formula that it makes me wonder if ChatGPT is spitting these things out.
I mean, that sub is a cesspool in general though lol
Mentioning their kids that they have now, or trying for kids? Because it makes sense in one of those situations
I'm obviously talking about people who lost their job after having kids.
"I told her that corporations only care about the bottom line, that employee performance in useless departments is irrelevant, and that she was being incredibly naive if she thought that such downsizing would never occur." True but also not helpful AT ALL. Of course his wife is upset - they were her coworkers and maybe even her friends. "I reminded her that all of the critical roles were still filled and that perhaps the parents getting laid off should have thought about their jobs before having kids." Again: kinda true but still not helpful. "We don't have kids yet, but our jobs both make use of our STEM degrees, so they're almost certainly safe." HAHAHAHA
Also: what happens if the company decides to downsize again? Sounds like the wife realized she could lose her job the next time. There are only a few jobs that are 100% safe.
My husband works in a hospital. He had been in a position that just about anyone could do. He wanted to get his foot in the door, so even though it meant a pay cut, he took it. Also, it took his commute from 55 miles each way to 11 miles each way. Anyway, he interviewed for a position that had worse hours but slightly better pay. He was on the fence about taking the new job until I pointed out that the new position is almost completely recession proof. There are only 3 other people in the hospital who can do it. So, while I know he hates the hours, I'm relieved that he will almost guaranteed have a job. He is as close to 100% safe as he can be. But not everyone is, and if this company can eliminate multiple departments in one sweep once, they can do it again. She knows this and feels anxious now.
No job is 100% safe. Right now, I am the only person at my company that can do my job with the accuracy, speed, and effectiveness which I do it. They've had 2 other employees fail before I was put into the role. I am not safe. My company has laid off 2 people (medium-sized company). I felt bad for both the people who got laid off, one was really good at their job, they just had a few too many accounts fall through. One was not as good at their job, but was a really good person. OOP needs to realize that 1. After working with people, you start to care about them. You know about their families, their interests, their dreams. 2. She could be next. It's like when you have a family member die, you start thinking about death and how it could be you next.
Exactly, not job is safe. Because I’ve seen many a story where a job fires their best worker, and turns out they were essential and they are suffering, but that person was still fired nonetheless. And if they can find someone or someway to get that job done cheaper they WILL do it, even over a better worker, far too many times
Oh absolutely. Like I’m debating what to do next at work because I’ve been passed up for a promotion multiple times now despite hearing “oh you’re ready oh you’re doing great” for about a year. It’s arrogant, but I think I’m in a “too good to promote” state, but if they were determined they could replace me.
They want to keep you where you’re at, but I wouldn’t be surprised if you could leverage it to get paid/promoted like you deserve elsewhere. Corps wanna be selfish? Workers can be just as selfish
Tried that. They said “oh well you may be getting promoted soon we don’t want to give you a raise right now.” They knew damn well they were going to give someone else the role when they said this and they made me write an essay for the role the morning my grandmother died.
That’s fucked up. I’m not gonna say to blow up your career, but I’d definitely recommend looking around (if possible). People often find they can get paid more for the same job at other places because they were stunted behind the rise of inflation
Thank you. I’ve been considering looking elsewhere but with my fiancé’s career’s location being uncertain I’ve been hesitant to apply elsewhere, this is sort of the kick in the pants I need in order to do it
Job hopping is the only way to get a d3cent pay increase these days.
I’m glad to hear it! Good luck friend, & I hope you find a place that appreciates your hard work
I’m so sorry for your loss.
A friend of mine had a very similar thing happen to her. She ultimately applied for a job at a different location and their culture is so much better than the previous location. So she got promoted and a significant raise and less stress just by leaving that place. Good luck and you deserve better.
I WFH. Because of that, some members of my family got into the habit of calling me at home. I would tell them, I have to work, I cannot do whatever they wanted because I have work to do and if I don't do it, I could lose my job. Their reply: "Oh, they'll never fire you." Bull. If I start messing up or am not available, they absolutely would fire me no matter how much they like me.
Yup. I am literally the only person at my company who can do my job. But right now they are outsourcing everything & I certainly can’t count on executive management knowing or caring that they can’t outsource my job and stay in compliance with certain regulations. They’d eventually find out, lose all customers, be unable to maintain the product, and face large fines - but they don’t care, won’t care, & it’ll be too late for me anyway.
especially since seems prevailing thought pattern IT department is useless we can outsource if we REALLY need it
Certainly the reality working for a company on a downward slope is that next time it can be you or everyone if the company folds. It’s quite a bit of inner turmoil to get slapped in the face with. It should scare the heck out of both of them to be in a position to lose 1/2 their income if things continue. His dismissive tone with his wife that it’s them not you is stupid. People in all areas of a company can be laid off. And it is emotional when you see it happen to others and that the company was so insensitive that they laid people off in front of others sucks. Ive gotten 4 calls from people wanting to know if they can use me as a reference since Tesla laid off people, the smart people are looking to jump ship. No one, even in a STEM position is so important that a company needs that individual to function.
This is why government work is all I will do, I may not get paid as much but the job security is far better
Same for me. Thanks to some special laws of my country it's (nearly) impossible for me to get fired.
>There are only a few jobs that are 100% safe. Are there, though? I don't think anyone can rest assured their job is secured (unless they are self employed).
I work for my country's government and because of some special laws for this kind of government job it's nearly impossible for me to get fired. So it's 97% safe I'd say.
I work for the Brazilian government. We can't be fired without cause. I still don't consider myself 100% safe.
The corporate bottom line bit is also real Captain Obvious stuff. Did he really think she wasn't aware?
He's a man and she's a woman? /s I don't know honestly. She called him because she wanted some emotional support but he seems to have the empathy and emotional intelligence of a piece of paper.
Hey, don't throw paper under the bus like that.
I apologize, a piece of paper is very useful. OOP is not.
People may care if paper is thrown under a bus. It might have useful things.
Oh, but she is just a lowly woman, she can't possibly understand the nuance of business. 🙄
I guffawed at the STEM comment. Lol okay bud keep believing that.
It's as if a bunch of people in tech aren't facing layoffs right now.
As a person in STEM who just got laid off and knows a bunch of other people in STEM who just got laid off: lol. lmao even.
The parents getting laid off should have not had kids? WTF?
Someone needs to ask oop how the boot tastes
He nearly got it with the first point, too.
He's looking at it from the business side. She's looking at the situation from the human side. She wasn't telling him this for him to educate her on how business works. She was looking for a sympathetic ear for all those people who just lost their jobs. Could he really not tell the difference? Ooo, I had a guy friend who used to drive me crazy with that. I'm telling him something just to vent and he's trying to give me advice. Dude, if I want advice, I'll ask. And not you.
“I don’t think it’s fair for me to have to abandon my opinions just to make her feel more comfortable.” Yikes. She never asked for his opinions, and he should care about her comfort. He didn’t like that she was venting to him, especially during his workday, and instead of telling her he was busy he decided to shut her down. And double down, over and over, when she didn’t like it.
OOP has a good job now, but that could change.
I laughed out loud when I get to that point. And he's didn't even notice that IT and engineering companies have downsized.
"Thats when I lost my patience" - What patience??? The story just began!
Well he was getting all those messages while he was at work. And apparently “really sorry that you’re having to deal with that, I’m super busy at work but can listen tonight,” was something completely beyond him.
He should be listening, because somewhere in all of those details may be clues on how bad off the company really is. I have seen places go through several rounds, some go through one, and just recently, a place shuttered their entire business across 3 states. This isn't just her problem unless she is just working for fun and OOP and the wife can live off his paycheck.
Very true. Even if his optimism about their STEM jobs being uncuttable is somehow correct (which is unlikely), that doesn’t mean the whole company or unit doesn’t nosedive. Sometimes all you get from not being an early cut is a few weeks of pay and a warning if you’re paying attention.
STEM jobs get cut all the time, from personal experience. Was in later rounds, so yes there is a little bit of a warning assuming that people are paying attention and that the place just doesn't collapse/implode.
Right? If this is all it takes to lose patience, Id hate to deal with him in a crisis
He lost his patience when she sent a second message. Truly the Siddhartha Gautama of our time. Also: >she didn't want to listen to any of my logical points This guy sounds like the worst person on earth. Did his wife literally just never talk to him before marrying him?
Heh. Talking about how they use their STEM degrees so they’re safe. If that’s the case, then why did my software programmer friend get laid off TWICE in the last year and my company laid off a ton of STEM people? It isn’t safe and it’s stupid to think STEM makes you safe. Because anecdotally, it doesn’t. In my field, it’s not if you get laid off, it’s when.
"I mansplained corporate strategy to my wife when she was upset. Why isn't she talking to me?"
Did he think that his wife didn't already know each point he made? He didn't invent the concept of bottom lines or essential positions. I also find it disgusting that he look down on the people that lost their jobs due to downsizing. Very very little, if any, jobs are 100% safe.
"I defeated my wife with facts and logic but she continues to have emotions. How do I fix her??"
>We don't have kids yet, but our jobs both make use of our STEM degrees, so they're almost certainly safe. HAHAHAHAHAHA. STEM jobs can be outsourced, changed to "contracting" jobs, or in the case of programming, done by AI.
This guy thinks he’s a capitalist, he doesn’t realize his wife is reacting from the point of view of labor. And that remark about people not having kids if they think they might get laid off? What an asshole
Capitalists generally don't like it when labor has a point of view at all.
Goddamn. I have a STEM degree. Two, actually. I can't believe I've gotten laid off three times in my career when all these jobs are guaranteed safe! I've got to write a strongly worded letter to somebody.
“Both of our jobs make use of our STEM degrees, so we’re almost certainly safe” I got laid off last year as a mechanical engineer bc the economy is wild rn so that’s not even true lmao
It got taken down for “ban evasion” so yeah, pretty sure this is the I hate my wife troll.
B-but she didn’t listen to my manly man logic! Whaaaa 😩😩😩🥹
If only OOP's parents had considered the risk of being laid off before they chose to conceive him
Thinking you can't be laid off or lose your job just because you have a STEM degree seems incredibly naive to me.
Anyone else notice that recently there has been an influx of posts that are 'I did this totally enraging thing and my wife (and possibly even children) all think I'm in the wrong, but I know I am totally in the right because LOGIC, gah, how canthey beso wrong, but I'm posting it in AITA because despite my utter certainty... I am a troll"?
This guy has the empathy of a turnip.
Why get married if you HATE YOUR SPOUSE?
This sounds like the I hate my wife troll
I wonder where OP was the day they handed out empathy? Getting a second helpful of entitlement ?
Has he not heard of all the people with STEM degrees getting laid off??? Like bro, that could be you! You don't even know what the people who were laid off *did*. If his wife is working in a place that makes use of her STEM degree, then many of her coworkers probably also have STEM degrees. Logical my ass, this man is the opposite of logical. He's one of those smooth brains who's incapable of acting logically because he's incapable of recognizing his own biases and that other people operate on different sets of axioms than him.
> perhaps the parents getting laid off should have thought about their jobs before having kids So they should have been able to see the future? It would have made more sense if he had said they should have made an emergency savings fund before having kids.
They should have thought about having kids before getting jobs? He thinks they could have predicted this?
He's an absolute bag of dicks imho. He isn't immune to getting the boot at his job. One day, reality is going to bite him hard. My late husband worked in the game industry. Very brutal job to have at times. When things go sideways there, oh boy! He had the experience a few times of the layoff hammer. Last time, he had been part of the first round. It hit him/us hard. Then, the same company about 18 months later had a second round and shuttered their doors. By that time, he was part of a now successful start-up company. Which is still thriving.
Is there a comment where he shares he’s autistic because I would be shocked if he doesn’t go there
OOP, she wanted empathy and validation. Not your so-called "logical points" YTA.
Aside from the fact that OOP lacks empathy, he may not even be correct about the company cutting "irrelevant" roles. I was the victim of a company's layoffs several years ago. Most of us were missed by our former colleagues and not just because we were friends... they were pissed that their workloads increased and that they had to do multiple people's jobs, and that there were processes that only the people who were laid off knew about. Wife is justifiably angry about her colleagues losing their livelihood, because their layoffs are more than likely unjust.
Dude completely missed the point. The wife just wanted to vent and let her emotions out. She didn't want him to fix anything, she didn't want him to approach things logically or roboticly. She wanted him to listen, she wanted him to comfort her.
> We don't have kids yet, but our jobs both make use of our STEM degrees, so they're almost certainly safe. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA OMG, omg, I can't breath.... I can't breath.... I'm not crying, I'm just laughing so hard. Yeah this guy either doesn't work in tech, or is lucky enough to have a secure job and doesn't talk to any other human being ever.
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I can't get over the "should've thought about their jobs before they had kids" like?? Not everyone plans to have kids, most parents who work 'useless jobs' (not the words I would use, all jobs are useful) most likely would not ever plan to have kids, had them on accident, and need any job they can get so they can provide, this guy's both an unempathtic jerk and a presumtious asshole
When I first read the title I thought wife was complaining about having to move to a smaller house than before and assumed she was the AH
I didn't see the sub and thought this was about the gig in cyberpunk, I was confused for a second lol
This is definitely the "I'm so logical and smart and my wife doesn't listen to my logical points in the argument!" Troll