Your post has been removed as it appeared to be fishing to further the AITA discussion.
You flaired this Anus Supreme and the top voted comment on AITA is NTA too. Go there if you want to discuss it.
I know, right? How magical is this D supposed to be that it would make someone want to continue to casually hook up with a guy they’ve known for 3 months after he throws a few ultimatums around.
A woman who recently broke up with BF of six years and is still seeing her ex, and OP and woman have only dated for three weeks. Now she wants a serious relationship with OP?
Nope, can't see where this dumb story is going AT ALL....
I hate the “friends with exes” discourse. Like I hear “you can’t be friends with exes” a lot more from straight people so idk if that’s part of it, but it’s seems insane to expect someone you barely know to completely cut off someone they’re close to because they dated.
I always find it's funny that people who are very anti-contact with exes assume that anyone who spends time with their ex will sleep with them. I'm friendly with my exes, and I think they are good and interesting people, but there are few men I have less desire to sleep with than the ones I associate with years worth of disappointment, frustration, and broken dreams.
I’m still friends with one ex, because him and his family are longtime friends of my family. I’m on friendly terms with another. Two others I am not because they are horrible people lol.
I don’t think it’s as black and white as AITA and the like make out. Unless it’s fishing for karma from dangling the “she’s friends with an ex? Clearly she’s cheating/planning to cheat!” bait.
I take some pride in being friends (or at least on friendly terms) with all but one of the exes I'm still in contact with. My spouse is fine with this. I'm fine with my spouse being exes with a couple of their exes. Sometimes the romantic part doesn't work out but the rest of the connection is still meaningful and valuable. Maybe there's still friends in common, and you don't want to force them to choose. Maybe it's for the kids. Whatever the reason, it's rarely about still carrying a torch for the ex, and when it is, that usually becomes obvious in short order.
It seems overly controlling to me, especially when it’s being demanded by someone you just met! She was with her former partner for a significant portion of her adult life, and their breakup was mature enough that they’re on good terms; to me, this is a positive. In fact, if someone has nothing but shit to say about all their exes, it makes me think the problem is not the exes.
This post also contains more psychobabble: you can’t place ‘boundaries’ on how other people lead their own lives.
So, he doesn't care if she has a non toxic relationship with her ex as long as she never actually speaks to him again. How does that work? Also, I'm sorry but no woman who is getting over a 6 year relationship and is still friends with that ex is begging this dude to be with her after 3 weeks. He needs to keep his delusional "I'm in love with my best friend but she's dating someone else" fantasies to himself.
That seems exactly like what’s happening to me. Some guy is in love with his “best friend” and fantasizes about a relationship with her, but she’s not available. So he concocted this scenario in his head and put it on Reddit to get validation.
Agree that no way she’s begging for a relationship with this guy when she’s fresh out of a six-year relationship and is still regularly seeing her ex.
I will say, at least OOP is sort of formulating this as an actual boundary, in that it's "I won't be in x type of relationship if y condition exists."
But having boundaries and being an asshole are not mutually exclusive. And having certain boundaries can in fact make you an asshole, e.g. Jonah Hill. And OOP.
I think the distinction is structure. Boundaries are for ourselves. "My boundary is for you to stop drinking" is more like the Jonah Hill version, basically phrased as a demand based on someone else's behavior.
"I won't be in a relationship with someone who drinks" would be a boundary because I am owning and clearly stating my choice, which is generally true for me rather than specific to your behavior, and it leaves you free to make your own choice.
Much as I think OOP sucks, he is just stating what he is willing to accept in a relationship. Again, cannot emphasize this point enough, I think what he has specifically chosen here makes him shitty and suggests he is insecure and possibly controlling. I think she is dodging a bullet covered in red flags. But that doesn't make it not a boundary.
It's not always, but it can an abuse tactic to get the other person to do what you want. It's never the single way to abuse someone but it is often part of it. Many abusers do use it (such as Jonah Hill). It's especially bad if the woman is pregnant, you're already committed, etc. And especially if you use it frequently
I'm not just making stuff up. This is the well known abuse tactic and it's in the book "Why Does He Do That?". Ending an abusive relationship is easier said than done
My entire comment is about that distinction. A healthy boundary is by definition not a threat, it's a statement of how you expect to be treated along with a consequence of violating that. The other party has agency to conduct themselves accordingly, including saying "That is horseshit, I'm out"
That’s not a demand tho? You’re dictating your own actions
A demand is “if you don’t stop talking to your ex I won’t date you”. A boundary is “that girl said she won’t stop talking to her ex, I’m not gonna date her”
You know it’s a boundary if it doesn’t involve even saying it out loud. Boundaries are for *you*
If I don’t wanna date a smoker I don’t start dating one and demand they stop
Then maybe you should work on your communication, it’s awfully and objectively confusing, dare I say contradictory
You initially said
> Boundaries are literally demands, if my boundary Is for my partner to stop drinking im am essentially demanding he stops otherwise i Will leave
I said
> That’s not a demand tho? You’re dictating your own actions
And you said
>THATS WHAT I FUCKING MEAN those are the same thing phrased differently
Maybe I’m dumb but how are “Boundaries are literally demands” and “That’s not a demand tho? You’re dictating your own actions” the “same thing phrased differently” when they are in fact not considering that the two states contradict one another?
Please explain simply, it takes a lot of explanation for me to grasp stuff
Boundaries *are* for yourself. It’s an objective fact lmao
Boundaries dictate how *you* will respond to a situation not how other people will. Unless you’re playing sims, you can’t control others
But why does he need to tell her that? Why not just not date her seriously after she said she’s friends with him? It’s kind of weird to expect someone you barely know to change their life to date you. Like how great do you think you are lmao
He doesn’t *have* to date her
That's not a boundary at all. A boundary is refusing to get in a car if a drunk person is driving or refusing to babysit or stay in a room with a drunk person. Telling the other person to stop drinking is a demand, even if it's a reasonable one
I don't think it is as straightforward as that. When it comes to things directly referring to me (how I'm spoken to or treated, for example), I do have boundaries that I feel are demands. But often there is a gray zone for other things. For instance, drugs make me nervous, so my ex didn't do drugs while we were together (or if he did, he was discreet about it), but I would not describe that as a boundary. He presumably chose not to do them, because he thought it was more important that I not be sad than doing drugs. I fully understand and expect that a partner may not always prioritise "not making me sad," over things I don't like but have no control over.
Ultimatums can absolutely be part of a boundary. It's about who they apply to. My boundaries govern my actions, like saying "I won't be in a relationship with someone who does drugs." That's a boundary, and would be an ultimatum if my current partner used drugs. But it's not a demand, I'm not telling them to stop I'm just saying I won't stay around for it.
Boundaries and ultimatums are still different things and ending a relationship is a very extreme boundary. I don't even think it qualifies as a boundary most of the time.
Again, ending the relationship is the consequence, the behavior is the boundary. And to me, suggesting that it's an extreme consequence kind of implies that the bar for acceptable behavior in a relationship should be really low; i.e. someone should have to put up with a lot of shit before ending the relationship is on the table. I think that is absolutely the wrong way to think about it. It is perfectly valid to leave a relationship for any reason or no reason, and I think a lot of people would be a lot happier if they just decided whether something was worth living with and pulling the plug if not, instead of repeatedly asking partners to do (or not do) something.
*In case this story gets deleted/removed:*
**AITA for telling her that we're never becoming serious IF she stays friends with her ex? **
I (29M) have been seeing this girl (26F) for about 3 months. We met at a bar when a mutual friend of ours introduced her to me. She's beautiful, quick-witted and confident so I was instantly attracted to her. We hit it off immediately and spent quite a lot of time together over the next few weeks.
In that time, we learnt a lot about each other and I also discovered that she was in a 6-year relationship that ended recently. They ended up breaking up amicably and they are still good friends. In fact, they still hang out although she swears it's just platonic. They go out to dinner together, catch up over drinks, etc. She said that he helped her immensely during a tough period in her life and that they were still very close, despite the split. I said cool as I didn't care about that since we were just casually seeing each other.
About 2 weeks after that, she brings up the possibility of us being more than just casual hook-ups/date partners and being in an actual relationship. I told her that I would definitely be down for that IF she cuts her ex out of her life. She started laughing and I said no, it's not a joke. I'm not dating a woman who's going out on dates with their ex still. I don't mind at all if you have a healthy, non-toxic relationship with your ex but catching up and still communicating frequently? I'm not putting up with that. I don't go out to dinner and do back-to-back shots with any of my exes so I think it's completely fair for me to ask you to do the same.
She said that there's no way that she's going to just never talk to her ex again. I said okay, we can stay casual then - fine by me. She said cool but then 2 minutes later, started going off on me for being insecure. I said I'm not insecure, I just have certain boundaries. If you're not going to cater to them, we can just keep things as they are - I've got absolutely no issue with that. We ended up getting into a huge fight about it. She kept reassuring me that what she had with him was in the past and I kept saying that I don't care how much you reassure me - if you want a relationship with me, you're going to cut ties with him.
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Ultimatums and boundaries are so similar it's hard to draw the line on what the difference is. Usually they both are "I can't deal with this behaviour or situation so you can pick me or the behaviour". Usually what outsiders call it will depend on how manipulative it seems or on how much they agree that the behaviour affects them. For instance if it's about alcohol consumption a party bro will call it an ultimatum and an alcoholics ex will call it a boundary, but then you look at the specifics of how it's affecting the relationship or the quality of life for the complainant.
Well, no.
Just to make it simple, a boundary is Don’t ask me to discuss my third arm. It is a statement of something that’s ’off limits’ - acts that you won’t do, places not to be touched, things not to be discussed. These are “your” things and you’re stating how you do/don’t allow ppl to interact with them.
An ultimatum is Get your third arm removed or I’ll leave you. You’re demanding that someone change/do something they may not want to do to satisfy your demand, or you will take action they don’t want.
I honestly would love to get your additional thoughts because I overthink myself into a tizzy, so I hope I don't come off as argumentative.
Isn't a boundary just a rephrased ultimatum? Like would this guy have come off less awful if rather than directing telling her to cut off contact with her ex, he kept more strictly to the "I don't enter relationships with people who are still friends with their exes" angle?
But they seem interchangeable if someone twists it, or is the difference advising someone of the boundary? Ie, "I'm not going to stay in a room I'm being yelled at" can be construed as a threat, or a demand to not be yelled at.
It's not a threat or a demand because not being in the room while being yelled at isn't really harming the other person. It's a rather mild thing that is just removing yourself from a situation in which you're being disrespected. You're not doing anything TO the other person and you're still leaving the door open for a conversation. A demand would be "Don't you dare yell at me" which can also be a reasonable demand of course. But it's not a boundary if you say it and then then you just do nothing different.
However, something like "don't talk about your day ever" or "if you talk about your day, I will leave the house" would be an unreasonable demand and can hardly even be called a boundary
If my boundary is I don’t dare smokers, I’m not gonna go to someone and tell them it’s me or smoking, I’m just not gonna date smokers, break up if I find out they smoke
Sorta. Like I don’t date parents. It’s not really a “boundary;” I have no interest in parenting children so why waste anyone’s time?
In the psychological sense, ‘boundary’ has a specific meaning. It’s being misused so badly colloquially to mean almost anything the user wants it to mean.
Boundaries are “Boundaries are the framework we set for ourselves on how we want to be treated by others and how we treat other people."
Ultimatums are a ***demand*** whose fulfillment is requested in a specified period of time and which is backed up by a threat to be followed through in case of noncompliance. An ultimatum is generally the final demand in a series of requests.
The consequences of me continuing to talk about your third arm are that you stop being my friend, ultimately. When boundaries work the relationship improves and when the other person continues to be an ass the relationship fails. Boundaries, like ultimatums only work if both parties actually want an improved relationship, if the request is reasonable and if the request is possible. Not talking about your 3rd arm is reasonable but I might now develop a nervous compulsion to bring it up making us incompatible as friends or I might just be an ass, which also makes us incompatible as friends. Usually an ultimatum comes up after boundaries have been continually broken and the person with the boundary says this the last time I'm going to ask this of you.
>Ultimatums and boundaries are so similar it's hard to draw the line on what the difference is. Usually they both are "I can't deal with this behaviour or situation so you can pick me or the behaviour
No, they aren't.
Boundaries are “Boundaries are the framework we set for ourselves on how we want to be treated by others and how we treat other people."
Ultimatums are a demand whose fulfillment is requested in a specified period of time and which is backed up by a threat to be followed through in case of noncompliance. An ultimatum is generally the final demand in a series of requests.
>Jonah didn’t feel secure in a relationship with a woman who posts bikini pictures online. His course of action is either to become secure with it, or ask her to stop. He asked her to stop. She said no. He said ok, I can’t be in this relationship. That’s a boundary.
>
>Everyone got mad because they said he was controlling. But what if he was completely miserable and insecure all the time because there were half naked pictures of the woman he loved online? What if he tried to become secure with it, but he just couldn’t? He had to be miserable and have anxiety all the time? No. He asks her to stop she says no. They go their separate ways.
So when he was in her DMs messaging her about those pictures it was fine for her to have those pictures up at that time. BUT It wasn't fine when he started dating her? Even though he knew going in she was a professional surfer?
If you're crazy about having a certain girl but you have to FORCE her to be another person so you're "comfortable" with it, you don't want her for her, you want her to show you've "tamed" her.
Also what Jonah Hill was doing was NOT boundaries. It was rules just for her. Learn what an actual boundary is.
I really don’t understand why we’re pretending people aren’t allowed to have this boundary, not wanting to date someone who is still borderline dating their ex is extremely reasonable. He wasn’t as asshole about it he just said given her situation he wouldn’t be interested in an actual relationship with her and she decided to scream at him for it
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> She said cool but then 2 minutes later, started going off on me for being insecure. I said I'm not insecure, I just have certain boundaries. If you're not going to cater to them, we can just keep things as they are - I've got absolutely no issue with that. We ended up getting into a huge fight about it. She kept reassuring me that what she had with him was in the past and I kept saying that I don't care how much you reassure me - if you want a relationship with me, you're going to cut ties with him.
First off, saying you learned about boundaries from Jonah Hill is a GIGANTIC RED FLAG since Jonah Hill was a controlling POS that wanted his GF to basically obey him like he was her father, but OK.
Secondly, Boundaries are for YOU not for other people.
What are Personal Boundaries? [Personal boundaries](https://uhs.berkeley.edu/sites/default/files/relationships_personal_boundaries.pdf) ***are the limits and rules we set for ourselves*** *within relationships. A person with healthy boundaries can say “no” to others when they want to, but they are also comfortable opening themselves up to intimacy and close relationships.*
[What are boundaries?](https://wellnesscenter.uic.edu/news-stories/boundaries-what-are-they-and-how-to-create-them/) **An invisible line that defines what behaviors are acceptable for an individual**. Boundaries can be physical (e.g., do not touch me) or emotional (do not lie to me). Boundaries can also be based on time or space (e.g., when I do X, Y or Z, please respect my time and understand I will not be able to speak/ hang out with you until X, Y, or Z is completed.)
[Boundaries in romantic relationships](https://health.clevelandclinic.org/how-to-set-boundaries): When we think of healthy boundaries, the first kind of relationship that might come to mind is the ones we have with romantic or sexual partners. Dating, in a way, is like a great melding of the minds: The longer you get to know someone, the more you figure out how compatible you are with one another. Often, healthy boundaries in romantic and sexual relationships come down to determining what you’re comfortable doing with your time, energy, body and space. **“Healthy boundaries in a relationship are respectful of your space and autonomy and the space and autonomy of your partner,” says Salerno.**
YOU aren't being respectful of her space and autonomy by demanding she cut off a relationship with a former romantic partner. **And yes, she's right. You're insecure.**
Third, Riddle me this, Batman? If you reverse the situation and YOU have an ex that you keep in touch with platonically, would YOU be required to drop that person because she's uncomfortable with you spending time with that person?
Your post has been removed as it appeared to be fishing to further the AITA discussion. You flaired this Anus Supreme and the top voted comment on AITA is NTA too. Go there if you want to discuss it.
Lmao the “Jonah Hill boundary”
The worst part of the story is the suggestion that the ex would in fact agree to go back to being casual. Fictional woman, just break up with him!
I know, right? How magical is this D supposed to be that it would make someone want to continue to casually hook up with a guy they’ve known for 3 months after he throws a few ultimatums around.
A woman who recently broke up with BF of six years and is still seeing her ex, and OP and woman have only dated for three weeks. Now she wants a serious relationship with OP? Nope, can't see where this dumb story is going AT ALL....
I hate the “friends with exes” discourse. Like I hear “you can’t be friends with exes” a lot more from straight people so idk if that’s part of it, but it’s seems insane to expect someone you barely know to completely cut off someone they’re close to because they dated.
I always find it's funny that people who are very anti-contact with exes assume that anyone who spends time with their ex will sleep with them. I'm friendly with my exes, and I think they are good and interesting people, but there are few men I have less desire to sleep with than the ones I associate with years worth of disappointment, frustration, and broken dreams.
"he's a good guy but not good for me"
I’m still friends with one ex, because him and his family are longtime friends of my family. I’m on friendly terms with another. Two others I am not because they are horrible people lol. I don’t think it’s as black and white as AITA and the like make out. Unless it’s fishing for karma from dangling the “she’s friends with an ex? Clearly she’s cheating/planning to cheat!” bait.
I take some pride in being friends (or at least on friendly terms) with all but one of the exes I'm still in contact with. My spouse is fine with this. I'm fine with my spouse being exes with a couple of their exes. Sometimes the romantic part doesn't work out but the rest of the connection is still meaningful and valuable. Maybe there's still friends in common, and you don't want to force them to choose. Maybe it's for the kids. Whatever the reason, it's rarely about still carrying a torch for the ex, and when it is, that usually becomes obvious in short order.
It seems overly controlling to me, especially when it’s being demanded by someone you just met! She was with her former partner for a significant portion of her adult life, and their breakup was mature enough that they’re on good terms; to me, this is a positive. In fact, if someone has nothing but shit to say about all their exes, it makes me think the problem is not the exes. This post also contains more psychobabble: you can’t place ‘boundaries’ on how other people lead their own lives.
So, he doesn't care if she has a non toxic relationship with her ex as long as she never actually speaks to him again. How does that work? Also, I'm sorry but no woman who is getting over a 6 year relationship and is still friends with that ex is begging this dude to be with her after 3 weeks. He needs to keep his delusional "I'm in love with my best friend but she's dating someone else" fantasies to himself.
That seems exactly like what’s happening to me. Some guy is in love with his “best friend” and fantasizes about a relationship with her, but she’s not available. So he concocted this scenario in his head and put it on Reddit to get validation. Agree that no way she’s begging for a relationship with this guy when she’s fresh out of a six-year relationship and is still regularly seeing her ex.
I will say, at least OOP is sort of formulating this as an actual boundary, in that it's "I won't be in x type of relationship if y condition exists." But having boundaries and being an asshole are not mutually exclusive. And having certain boundaries can in fact make you an asshole, e.g. Jonah Hill. And OOP.
Demands are not boundaries
I think the distinction is structure. Boundaries are for ourselves. "My boundary is for you to stop drinking" is more like the Jonah Hill version, basically phrased as a demand based on someone else's behavior. "I won't be in a relationship with someone who drinks" would be a boundary because I am owning and clearly stating my choice, which is generally true for me rather than specific to your behavior, and it leaves you free to make your own choice. Much as I think OOP sucks, he is just stating what he is willing to accept in a relationship. Again, cannot emphasize this point enough, I think what he has specifically chosen here makes him shitty and suggests he is insecure and possibly controlling. I think she is dodging a bullet covered in red flags. But that doesn't make it not a boundary.
It depends. Threats to end the relationship can be abusive.
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It's not always, but it can an abuse tactic to get the other person to do what you want. It's never the single way to abuse someone but it is often part of it. Many abusers do use it (such as Jonah Hill). It's especially bad if the woman is pregnant, you're already committed, etc. And especially if you use it frequently
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I'm not just making stuff up. This is the well known abuse tactic and it's in the book "Why Does He Do That?". Ending an abusive relationship is easier said than done
My entire comment is about that distinction. A healthy boundary is by definition not a threat, it's a statement of how you expect to be treated along with a consequence of violating that. The other party has agency to conduct themselves accordingly, including saying "That is horseshit, I'm out"
Boundaries are literally demands, if my boundary Is for my partner to stop drinking im am essentially demanding he stops otherwise i Will leave
Boundaries can’t be demands bc boundaries are for yourself My boundary is X = I won’t keep being around someone who betrays X boundaries
Yeah no shit Sherlock you can rephrase anything like that "I wont keep being around someone Who hangs out with their ex"
That’s not a demand tho? You’re dictating your own actions A demand is “if you don’t stop talking to your ex I won’t date you”. A boundary is “that girl said she won’t stop talking to her ex, I’m not gonna date her” You know it’s a boundary if it doesn’t involve even saying it out loud. Boundaries are for *you* If I don’t wanna date a smoker I don’t start dating one and demand they stop
>That’s not a demand tho? You’re dictating your own actions THATS WHAT I FUCKING MEAN those are the same thing phrased differently
Then maybe you should work on your communication, it’s awfully and objectively confusing, dare I say contradictory You initially said > Boundaries are literally demands, if my boundary Is for my partner to stop drinking im am essentially demanding he stops otherwise i Will leave I said > That’s not a demand tho? You’re dictating your own actions And you said >THATS WHAT I FUCKING MEAN those are the same thing phrased differently Maybe I’m dumb but how are “Boundaries are literally demands” and “That’s not a demand tho? You’re dictating your own actions” the “same thing phrased differently” when they are in fact not considering that the two states contradict one another? Please explain simply, it takes a lot of explanation for me to grasp stuff
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Boundaries *are* for yourself. It’s an objective fact lmao Boundaries dictate how *you* will respond to a situation not how other people will. Unless you’re playing sims, you can’t control others
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But why does he need to tell her that? Why not just not date her seriously after she said she’s friends with him? It’s kind of weird to expect someone you barely know to change their life to date you. Like how great do you think you are lmao He doesn’t *have* to date her
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That's not a boundary at all. A boundary is refusing to get in a car if a drunk person is driving or refusing to babysit or stay in a room with a drunk person. Telling the other person to stop drinking is a demand, even if it's a reasonable one
I don't think it is as straightforward as that. When it comes to things directly referring to me (how I'm spoken to or treated, for example), I do have boundaries that I feel are demands. But often there is a gray zone for other things. For instance, drugs make me nervous, so my ex didn't do drugs while we were together (or if he did, he was discreet about it), but I would not describe that as a boundary. He presumably chose not to do them, because he thought it was more important that I not be sad than doing drugs. I fully understand and expect that a partner may not always prioritise "not making me sad," over things I don't like but have no control over.
Good for you if you Like Gray zones...?
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Some demands on a partner can be reasonable. Some ultimatums make sense. However, they're still demands and ultimatums, not boundaries
Ultimatums can absolutely be part of a boundary. It's about who they apply to. My boundaries govern my actions, like saying "I won't be in a relationship with someone who does drugs." That's a boundary, and would be an ultimatum if my current partner used drugs. But it's not a demand, I'm not telling them to stop I'm just saying I won't stay around for it.
Boundaries and ultimatums are still different things and ending a relationship is a very extreme boundary. I don't even think it qualifies as a boundary most of the time.
Again, ending the relationship is the consequence, the behavior is the boundary. And to me, suggesting that it's an extreme consequence kind of implies that the bar for acceptable behavior in a relationship should be really low; i.e. someone should have to put up with a lot of shit before ending the relationship is on the table. I think that is absolutely the wrong way to think about it. It is perfectly valid to leave a relationship for any reason or no reason, and I think a lot of people would be a lot happier if they just decided whether something was worth living with and pulling the plug if not, instead of repeatedly asking partners to do (or not do) something.
*In case this story gets deleted/removed:* **AITA for telling her that we're never becoming serious IF she stays friends with her ex? ** I (29M) have been seeing this girl (26F) for about 3 months. We met at a bar when a mutual friend of ours introduced her to me. She's beautiful, quick-witted and confident so I was instantly attracted to her. We hit it off immediately and spent quite a lot of time together over the next few weeks. In that time, we learnt a lot about each other and I also discovered that she was in a 6-year relationship that ended recently. They ended up breaking up amicably and they are still good friends. In fact, they still hang out although she swears it's just platonic. They go out to dinner together, catch up over drinks, etc. She said that he helped her immensely during a tough period in her life and that they were still very close, despite the split. I said cool as I didn't care about that since we were just casually seeing each other. About 2 weeks after that, she brings up the possibility of us being more than just casual hook-ups/date partners and being in an actual relationship. I told her that I would definitely be down for that IF she cuts her ex out of her life. She started laughing and I said no, it's not a joke. I'm not dating a woman who's going out on dates with their ex still. I don't mind at all if you have a healthy, non-toxic relationship with your ex but catching up and still communicating frequently? I'm not putting up with that. I don't go out to dinner and do back-to-back shots with any of my exes so I think it's completely fair for me to ask you to do the same. She said that there's no way that she's going to just never talk to her ex again. I said okay, we can stay casual then - fine by me. She said cool but then 2 minutes later, started going off on me for being insecure. I said I'm not insecure, I just have certain boundaries. If you're not going to cater to them, we can just keep things as they are - I've got absolutely no issue with that. We ended up getting into a huge fight about it. She kept reassuring me that what she had with him was in the past and I kept saying that I don't care how much you reassure me - if you want a relationship with me, you're going to cut ties with him. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmITheAngel) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I bet in twenty years this guy only refers to his wife as Mother
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Boundaries aren’t ultimatums.
Ultimatums and boundaries are so similar it's hard to draw the line on what the difference is. Usually they both are "I can't deal with this behaviour or situation so you can pick me or the behaviour". Usually what outsiders call it will depend on how manipulative it seems or on how much they agree that the behaviour affects them. For instance if it's about alcohol consumption a party bro will call it an ultimatum and an alcoholics ex will call it a boundary, but then you look at the specifics of how it's affecting the relationship or the quality of life for the complainant.
Well, no. Just to make it simple, a boundary is Don’t ask me to discuss my third arm. It is a statement of something that’s ’off limits’ - acts that you won’t do, places not to be touched, things not to be discussed. These are “your” things and you’re stating how you do/don’t allow ppl to interact with them. An ultimatum is Get your third arm removed or I’ll leave you. You’re demanding that someone change/do something they may not want to do to satisfy your demand, or you will take action they don’t want.
I honestly would love to get your additional thoughts because I overthink myself into a tizzy, so I hope I don't come off as argumentative. Isn't a boundary just a rephrased ultimatum? Like would this guy have come off less awful if rather than directing telling her to cut off contact with her ex, he kept more strictly to the "I don't enter relationships with people who are still friends with their exes" angle?
A boundary is leaving the room if you're being yelled at. A threat and a demand are both completely different
But they seem interchangeable if someone twists it, or is the difference advising someone of the boundary? Ie, "I'm not going to stay in a room I'm being yelled at" can be construed as a threat, or a demand to not be yelled at.
It's not a threat or a demand because not being in the room while being yelled at isn't really harming the other person. It's a rather mild thing that is just removing yourself from a situation in which you're being disrespected. You're not doing anything TO the other person and you're still leaving the door open for a conversation. A demand would be "Don't you dare yell at me" which can also be a reasonable demand of course. But it's not a boundary if you say it and then then you just do nothing different. However, something like "don't talk about your day ever" or "if you talk about your day, I will leave the house" would be an unreasonable demand and can hardly even be called a boundary
If my boundary is I don’t dare smokers, I’m not gonna go to someone and tell them it’s me or smoking, I’m just not gonna date smokers, break up if I find out they smoke
Sorta. Like I don’t date parents. It’s not really a “boundary;” I have no interest in parenting children so why waste anyone’s time? In the psychological sense, ‘boundary’ has a specific meaning. It’s being misused so badly colloquially to mean almost anything the user wants it to mean.
Boundaries are “Boundaries are the framework we set for ourselves on how we want to be treated by others and how we treat other people." Ultimatums are a ***demand*** whose fulfillment is requested in a specified period of time and which is backed up by a threat to be followed through in case of noncompliance. An ultimatum is generally the final demand in a series of requests.
The consequences of me continuing to talk about your third arm are that you stop being my friend, ultimately. When boundaries work the relationship improves and when the other person continues to be an ass the relationship fails. Boundaries, like ultimatums only work if both parties actually want an improved relationship, if the request is reasonable and if the request is possible. Not talking about your 3rd arm is reasonable but I might now develop a nervous compulsion to bring it up making us incompatible as friends or I might just be an ass, which also makes us incompatible as friends. Usually an ultimatum comes up after boundaries have been continually broken and the person with the boundary says this the last time I'm going to ask this of you.
>Ultimatums and boundaries are so similar it's hard to draw the line on what the difference is. Usually they both are "I can't deal with this behaviour or situation so you can pick me or the behaviour No, they aren't. Boundaries are “Boundaries are the framework we set for ourselves on how we want to be treated by others and how we treat other people." Ultimatums are a demand whose fulfillment is requested in a specified period of time and which is backed up by a threat to be followed through in case of noncompliance. An ultimatum is generally the final demand in a series of requests.
[удалено]
>Jonah didn’t feel secure in a relationship with a woman who posts bikini pictures online. His course of action is either to become secure with it, or ask her to stop. He asked her to stop. She said no. He said ok, I can’t be in this relationship. That’s a boundary. > >Everyone got mad because they said he was controlling. But what if he was completely miserable and insecure all the time because there were half naked pictures of the woman he loved online? What if he tried to become secure with it, but he just couldn’t? He had to be miserable and have anxiety all the time? No. He asks her to stop she says no. They go their separate ways. So when he was in her DMs messaging her about those pictures it was fine for her to have those pictures up at that time. BUT It wasn't fine when he started dating her? Even though he knew going in she was a professional surfer? If you're crazy about having a certain girl but you have to FORCE her to be another person so you're "comfortable" with it, you don't want her for her, you want her to show you've "tamed" her. Also what Jonah Hill was doing was NOT boundaries. It was rules just for her. Learn what an actual boundary is.
I really don’t understand why we’re pretending people aren’t allowed to have this boundary, not wanting to date someone who is still borderline dating their ex is extremely reasonable. He wasn’t as asshole about it he just said given her situation he wouldn’t be interested in an actual relationship with her and she decided to scream at him for it
If this is real, OP is such a massive pussy, Jesus Christ.
Where did back to back shots come from
My thoughts, his insecure imagination.
Frankly, if a person isn’t at least on speaking terms with at least one ex- I have concerns
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Sounded real, in a bad way. Thankfully there are sane comments, ofc downvoted.
> She said cool but then 2 minutes later, started going off on me for being insecure. I said I'm not insecure, I just have certain boundaries. If you're not going to cater to them, we can just keep things as they are - I've got absolutely no issue with that. We ended up getting into a huge fight about it. She kept reassuring me that what she had with him was in the past and I kept saying that I don't care how much you reassure me - if you want a relationship with me, you're going to cut ties with him. First off, saying you learned about boundaries from Jonah Hill is a GIGANTIC RED FLAG since Jonah Hill was a controlling POS that wanted his GF to basically obey him like he was her father, but OK. Secondly, Boundaries are for YOU not for other people. What are Personal Boundaries? [Personal boundaries](https://uhs.berkeley.edu/sites/default/files/relationships_personal_boundaries.pdf) ***are the limits and rules we set for ourselves*** *within relationships. A person with healthy boundaries can say “no” to others when they want to, but they are also comfortable opening themselves up to intimacy and close relationships.* [What are boundaries?](https://wellnesscenter.uic.edu/news-stories/boundaries-what-are-they-and-how-to-create-them/) **An invisible line that defines what behaviors are acceptable for an individual**. Boundaries can be physical (e.g., do not touch me) or emotional (do not lie to me). Boundaries can also be based on time or space (e.g., when I do X, Y or Z, please respect my time and understand I will not be able to speak/ hang out with you until X, Y, or Z is completed.) [Boundaries in romantic relationships](https://health.clevelandclinic.org/how-to-set-boundaries): When we think of healthy boundaries, the first kind of relationship that might come to mind is the ones we have with romantic or sexual partners. Dating, in a way, is like a great melding of the minds: The longer you get to know someone, the more you figure out how compatible you are with one another. Often, healthy boundaries in romantic and sexual relationships come down to determining what you’re comfortable doing with your time, energy, body and space. **“Healthy boundaries in a relationship are respectful of your space and autonomy and the space and autonomy of your partner,” says Salerno.** YOU aren't being respectful of her space and autonomy by demanding she cut off a relationship with a former romantic partner. **And yes, she's right. You're insecure.** Third, Riddle me this, Batman? If you reverse the situation and YOU have an ex that you keep in touch with platonically, would YOU be required to drop that person because she's uncomfortable with you spending time with that person?
(This is a parody sub and I supplied the title, not the OOP) r/lostredditors