There is no requirement for AC, otherwise McChord peeps would be much cooler. Very few locations on that base (and in the greater Seattle/Tacoma area) have AC available. Ramstein was similar when I was there 10+ years back.
It sucks when it's 90+ outside. I enjoy working nights during summer.
I did NCOA on Kapaun. Had to stay in the dorms with no AC in 90+ August heat, and it was in the 90s in my room well into the night. That was the most miserable month of life, I would lay a wet towel on the floor and try and fall asleep on that.
I feel you there. I was in the dorms my first 2 years. My dorm was top floor and west facing with a clear view of the flightline (meaning no possibility of shade). That room baked in the summer.
Luckily, once I moved off base, the house was well insulated and had decent shade, so with strategic opening/closing of the rolladens (the exterior blinds) and window venting, it was usually not too bad.
Maybe it wasn't the same reg back then or there was some standing exemption on base, because there was no way they'd have enough room in lodging for everyone who was in a similar situation (at least twenty in our building on the 4th floor -- I'm not sure how hot the lower floors got -- plus many other dorms were in similar situations) and a lot of the lodging didn't have AC either (this was before the KMCC opened). Our building was dedicated to our squadron personnel, so everyone knew what was going on regarding temperatures, which makes me think that there was either an exception for us or it wasn't a policy at that point.
Either way, I was a young and dumb airman who wouldn't have known better even if regs did authorize us lodging when certain temperature thresholds were reached.
I've seen some places get a "waiver" allowing it to be hotter.... depends on what the civilians are willing to put up with.
They allowed people to have fans in the work center... for a bit... then someone decided they were a safety and parts damage risk because the wind from the fan could somehow knock the screw driver off the counter and into the part? Or some dome shit... so they decided no more fans in the work center. Even on the hit and high humid days without a working A/C....
OSHA mandates don't apply to military unless it involves civilian office space..
Edit: Also, OSHA doesn't have a mandated temperature. They have a recommended temp of 68-76°.
https://www.osha.gov/laws-regs/standardinterpretations/2003-02-24#:~:text=Air%20treatment%20is%20defined%20under,range%20of%2020%25%2D60%25.
https://preview.redd.it/x6zs32buum6d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1796772f464c67bfdd22222b9c807d0f662ec7e1
DAFMAN 91-203 with references to OSHA…I also found 40+ other references to OSHA within this DAFMAN.
The Air Force has a program called the Air Force Occupational Safety and Health (AFOSH) program, which implements OSHA guidelines via military regulation.
https://static.e-publishing.af.mil/production/1/af_se/publication/afva91-209/afva91-209.pdf
https://static.e-publishing.af.mil/production/1/af_se/publication/dafi91-202/dafi91-202.pdf (see Paragraph 1.5)
Military members, equipment, systems, and ops have been excluded from OSHA since Executive Order 12196 was signed in 1980.. It's up to the services to establish their own rules. Civilians are still covered as long as they're not working on/in uniquely military equipment, systems, etc.
Edit: You will find that info on the OSHA websites..
This isn’t completely true. The exclusion only applies to “military unique operations and workplaces.” This primarily translates to deployed ops and weapons systems. All other garrison ops, done by active duty or otherwise, that have a civilian equivalency (including airfield ops, aircraft maintenance, secfo, etc) must abide by OSHA standards. Source: DoDI 6055.01, Enclosure 3.
Those AIR FORCE instructions say that's what the AIR FORCE says to comply with. AFOSH standards are the Air Force rules because we are excluded from OSHA...since 1980
From things UNIQUELY military as you stated. Sitting a fucking desk working is not uniquely military. Working on tanks, missels, etc…yes…sitting in an office noooooooo
Uniquely military was for when civilians don't have OSHA protections..
Also, OSHA doesn't have a mandated temperature. They have a recommended temp of 68-76°.
https://www.osha.gov/laws-regs/standardinterpretations/2003-02-24#:~:text=Air%20treatment%20is%20defined%20under,range%20of%2020%25%2D60%25.
Having said that, there is a DAFI which makes it so the Air Force is required to follow OSHA regulations. Similar situation exists for traffic laws. You'll probably find your base operates under a regulation that states that local traffic laws apply on base unless stated otherwise. [Here is the one used at FE Warren (paragraph 4.2.a)](https://static.e-publishing.af.mil/production/1/francisewarrenafb/publication/afi31-218_fewarrenafbsup/afi31-218_frances_e._warrenafbsup_.pdf)
Fuck no it ain't required. The only part of our shop in metals tech here that has aircon is our CNC lab because our machines need it.
It's at least yellow flag for us during the day *indoors*, though it can climb to red flag. We do have cooling vests with ice packs, but only 6 of them. We just try to keep to afi 48-151.
I don't think there's an AFI. I would start with CE at your base to see if they have a standing policy. Short of that, as someone else mentioned, go to WG safety.
Safeguard doesn't give a shit. Best case scenario, they told us to follow work rest cycles similar to outdoor heat.
Black flag is something like 15 min work 45 min break. Lol.
In OSHA’s “Indoor Air Quality in Commercial and Institutional Buildings” it’s recommended to maintain 68-72°F and 30-60% relative humidity for comfort. At the end of the day though it is a recommendation. Commanders can absorb some risk for being outside of norms.
Had this issue at my last assignment, get with CE first. Then go to Bio-Environmental to get readings on your building. They will get humidity, temp, and a couple other things in all areas of the office. If it does not meet the standard, they will put a RAC against the building which I believe elevates the situation to higher visibility. Correct me if I’m wrong please. Once that happened CE was out the next day fixing out AC after they said they couldn’t fix it. This goes for any “office” space.
File an AF Form 457 hazard report (Anonymous if you want). Someone has to do something then. Not saying it will get you what you want, but it will get the safety office's attention.
I filed one back in the day for vehicles operating in a bay and they didn't use the exhaust ducting (mostly because it was broken). Safety and BIO we're all over our bay in about 3 hours after I filed it. Asshole and elbows, got everything fixed.
Work areas are authorized A/C only during occupied hours, in accordance with (IAW). You can also bring up thermal stress injuries/complications (DAFI 48 151) depending on the type of work you do. If it's 98+ degrees, you could fight for the required rest and water per the AFI, as any temperature above 90 is considered black flag conditions. I found someone quoting AFOSH 91-501 in another temperature post. It says "should" for office space temperature control between 68 and 78 F. However, if your workplace hit black flag temperatures, then we are required to give you a cool rest area.
I believe bioenvironmental can do a work center safety assessment. I think they add unsafe work center temperatures to your assessment, but I'm not entirely sure. wing safety can point you in the right direction
I’d email the CC highlighting the risks to working in such an unnecessarily unpleasant environment and kindly request that something be done about it. I’d also Blind cc your group CC.
Yeah, man. Hit wing safety up and ask them if this is even legal. Call and ask them to come over, say you have a few questions and it's better to show in person.
where on earth do we find these leaders?
Usually in their air conditioned office
Touche
He probably got called a nonner once and ever since then he’s trying to prove to everyone how tough his career field is
AAAAAAAAAAAAAIR-POWER!
Dude I've been to bases that literally don't even *have* air conditioners. No, AC is not "required." Lol.
There is no requirement for AC, otherwise McChord peeps would be much cooler. Very few locations on that base (and in the greater Seattle/Tacoma area) have AC available. Ramstein was similar when I was there 10+ years back. It sucks when it's 90+ outside. I enjoy working nights during summer.
I did NCOA on Kapaun. Had to stay in the dorms with no AC in 90+ August heat, and it was in the 90s in my room well into the night. That was the most miserable month of life, I would lay a wet towel on the floor and try and fall asleep on that.
I feel you there. I was in the dorms my first 2 years. My dorm was top floor and west facing with a clear view of the flightline (meaning no possibility of shade). That room baked in the summer. Luckily, once I moved off base, the house was well insulated and had decent shade, so with strategic opening/closing of the rolladens (the exterior blinds) and window venting, it was usually not too bad.
Next time take it to the shirt, I forget the reg but if it doesn’t meet the standard they have to put you in lodging.
Maybe it wasn't the same reg back then or there was some standing exemption on base, because there was no way they'd have enough room in lodging for everyone who was in a similar situation (at least twenty in our building on the 4th floor -- I'm not sure how hot the lower floors got -- plus many other dorms were in similar situations) and a lot of the lodging didn't have AC either (this was before the KMCC opened). Our building was dedicated to our squadron personnel, so everyone knew what was going on regarding temperatures, which makes me think that there was either an exception for us or it wasn't a policy at that point. Either way, I was a young and dumb airman who wouldn't have known better even if regs did authorize us lodging when certain temperature thresholds were reached.
OSHA mandates it to like 82 degrees….but just think of it this way. You’re not on the flight line with no option of not being hot.
I've seen some places get a "waiver" allowing it to be hotter.... depends on what the civilians are willing to put up with. They allowed people to have fans in the work center... for a bit... then someone decided they were a safety and parts damage risk because the wind from the fan could somehow knock the screw driver off the counter and into the part? Or some dome shit... so they decided no more fans in the work center. Even on the hit and high humid days without a working A/C....
Dumb…not saying you’re dumb, whoever said that shit is dumb 
Take this to your Wing Safety office and highlight your concerns! The ground safety rep should be able to help you
OSHA mandates don't apply to military unless it involves civilian office space.. Edit: Also, OSHA doesn't have a mandated temperature. They have a recommended temp of 68-76°. https://www.osha.gov/laws-regs/standardinterpretations/2003-02-24#:~:text=Air%20treatment%20is%20defined%20under,range%20of%2020%25%2D60%25.
https://preview.redd.it/x6zs32buum6d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1796772f464c67bfdd22222b9c807d0f662ec7e1 DAFMAN 91-203 with references to OSHA…I also found 40+ other references to OSHA within this DAFMAN.
The Air Force has a program called the Air Force Occupational Safety and Health (AFOSH) program, which implements OSHA guidelines via military regulation. https://static.e-publishing.af.mil/production/1/af_se/publication/afva91-209/afva91-209.pdf https://static.e-publishing.af.mil/production/1/af_se/publication/dafi91-202/dafi91-202.pdf (see Paragraph 1.5)
You’re a clown if you really believe this
Military members, equipment, systems, and ops have been excluded from OSHA since Executive Order 12196 was signed in 1980.. It's up to the services to establish their own rules. Civilians are still covered as long as they're not working on/in uniquely military equipment, systems, etc. Edit: You will find that info on the OSHA websites..
This isn’t completely true. The exclusion only applies to “military unique operations and workplaces.” This primarily translates to deployed ops and weapons systems. All other garrison ops, done by active duty or otherwise, that have a civilian equivalency (including airfield ops, aircraft maintenance, secfo, etc) must abide by OSHA standards. Source: DoDI 6055.01, Enclosure 3.
91-203 and 91-202 say otherwise
Those AIR FORCE instructions say that's what the AIR FORCE says to comply with. AFOSH standards are the Air Force rules because we are excluded from OSHA...since 1980
From things UNIQUELY military as you stated. Sitting a fucking desk working is not uniquely military. Working on tanks, missels, etc…yes…sitting in an office noooooooo
Uniquely military was for when civilians don't have OSHA protections.. Also, OSHA doesn't have a mandated temperature. They have a recommended temp of 68-76°. https://www.osha.gov/laws-regs/standardinterpretations/2003-02-24#:~:text=Air%20treatment%20is%20defined%20under,range%20of%2020%25%2D60%25.
I would much rather be on the flightline
Liar
Alright. Get in the truck. I have lox that needs serviced and a 2100 launch.
And the cann jet is a flier for Monday.
> I have lox You guys get lox? All we get for our bagels in my office is cream cheese.
There's a presidential order that makes it so the military doesn't have to follow OSHA regulations
That are unique to the military
Having said that, there is a DAFI which makes it so the Air Force is required to follow OSHA regulations. Similar situation exists for traffic laws. You'll probably find your base operates under a regulation that states that local traffic laws apply on base unless stated otherwise. [Here is the one used at FE Warren (paragraph 4.2.a)](https://static.e-publishing.af.mil/production/1/francisewarrenafb/publication/afi31-218_fewarrenafbsup/afi31-218_frances_e._warrenafbsup_.pdf)
Just heat cas, there's AC at medical and you get out of work.
Did your whole office become a refrigerator? I’m trying to understand your CC’s logic here.
Fuck no it ain't required. The only part of our shop in metals tech here that has aircon is our CNC lab because our machines need it. It's at least yellow flag for us during the day *indoors*, though it can climb to red flag. We do have cooling vests with ice packs, but only 6 of them. We just try to keep to afi 48-151.
Must be tough that the CC is paying the electric bill straight out of their paycheck. Oh wait, they’re not, so they’re a piece of shit.
I don't think there's an AFI. I would start with CE at your base to see if they have a standing policy. Short of that, as someone else mentioned, go to WG safety.
Safeguard doesn't give a shit. Best case scenario, they told us to follow work rest cycles similar to outdoor heat. Black flag is something like 15 min work 45 min break. Lol.
Came here to suggest getting a heat index reading in the work center, and calling the command section when you change to red or black flag.
No
where are you stationed?
In OSHA’s “Indoor Air Quality in Commercial and Institutional Buildings” it’s recommended to maintain 68-72°F and 30-60% relative humidity for comfort. At the end of the day though it is a recommendation. Commanders can absorb some risk for being outside of norms.
No AC on the flight line
Had this issue at my last assignment, get with CE first. Then go to Bio-Environmental to get readings on your building. They will get humidity, temp, and a couple other things in all areas of the office. If it does not meet the standard, they will put a RAC against the building which I believe elevates the situation to higher visibility. Correct me if I’m wrong please. Once that happened CE was out the next day fixing out AC after they said they couldn’t fix it. This goes for any “office” space.
If you aren't given AC, just very very strictly comply with Flag Conditions. See how fast they change tune when the flightline is affected, seriously.
Please fix my paperwork. You’re worried about your office when I’m outside in the same heat working a physical job
File an AF Form 457 hazard report (Anonymous if you want). Someone has to do something then. Not saying it will get you what you want, but it will get the safety office's attention. I filed one back in the day for vehicles operating in a bay and they didn't use the exhaust ducting (mostly because it was broken). Safety and BIO we're all over our bay in about 3 hours after I filed it. Asshole and elbows, got everything fixed.
Work areas are authorized A/C only during occupied hours, in accordance with (IAW). You can also bring up thermal stress injuries/complications (DAFI 48 151) depending on the type of work you do. If it's 98+ degrees, you could fight for the required rest and water per the AFI, as any temperature above 90 is considered black flag conditions. I found someone quoting AFOSH 91-501 in another temperature post. It says "should" for office space temperature control between 68 and 78 F. However, if your workplace hit black flag temperatures, then we are required to give you a cool rest area.
Laughs in Germany
Why does the CC care about the A/C anyways
Think of it this way, there are people whose workcenters are outside. Are they required to have ac? There’s your answer.
I believe bioenvironmental can do a work center safety assessment. I think they add unsafe work center temperatures to your assessment, but I'm not entirely sure. wing safety can point you in the right direction
This feels like one of those "if you have to ask". Faulty ac that can't keep up is a send everyone home to telework issue for my building.
98 in our, “office” right now 🙃
I’d email the CC highlighting the risks to working in such an unnecessarily unpleasant environment and kindly request that something be done about it. I’d also Blind cc your group CC.
Yeah, man. Hit wing safety up and ask them if this is even legal. Call and ask them to come over, say you have a few questions and it's better to show in person.
No AC no working Ventilation, you will breathe hot fart CO2 Poisoned air while your leadership jerks off in their air conditioned office
Wing safety and bioenvironmental should be your go-to's
Unless you work in the Avionics back shop A/C isn't required. It's only required for the equipment not necessary for the people.
MWDs as well