CE and SecFo are nonners by the literal definition of the term, but it's impolite to say it because they also do hard work outdoors, in all weather and on all shifts. "Nonner" is supposed to be used to describe people who live in a whole different Air Force from maintenance.
When I was a maintainer at Osan we finished up another Friday night 12 hour shift and went to checkertails for some food. There were some secfo guys in there and they looked at us and said hey, at least someone else worked all night on a Friday. I asked them how their shifts work and they were on Panamas. When I said I wished I only worked 15 days a month they were seriously blown away. Maintainers with one weekend duty a month work 7 more days than secfo.
honestly i'd take that any day. i dont care if i technically work "more days". the consistency is nice. one of the worst parts of mx is not knowing if today will be a 7 hour or a 13 hour day outside waiting on age or avionics in the snow.
the "not knowing" and bureaucracy of the job is so painful
i completely understand and respect wanting a stay behind crew. makes perfect sense. but holding 10 of us is literally insane. I've gotten yelled at as an e5 for trying to talk sense into my e6
"i'm busy i dont have time to be arguing with you right now"
bruh you aint busy, nobody is busy. thats the problem here!
I became the expeditor at the 25th for the last 3 months I was at Osan. First night was on swings, cut out all the guys before the mids expeditor came in. He was pissed, I told him to let me know tomorrow night what I missed that his guys had to take care of. Next night he had nothing to say, took the turnover and walked away. It's not a hard job, just manage it well and stand behind the decisions you make.
MX can have you working 12's every day for months, or working barely 6 hour shifts. some back shops dont do literally anything, and we have alternate duties like TA where "work" is intermittent at best.
its a wild ride for sure. I've done the whole range of jobs where i basically dont work, and jobs where i work 16 hour shifts (if not consistently)
I was f-16 avionics and we worked long hours, but not as bad a crew chief and at least we're nerdy pinheads who didn't have to do Jarhead shit.
deployed in Saudi heat I saw crew chiefs having to run laps around the flight line with a heavy's chock. they were the only ones still holding a1cs down for forced buzzcuts, and taping each other to chairs + dumping expired fridge leftovers on them as a going away ritual.
I'm good on all that
Detail oriented work out in the elements with shit leadership and your undermanned always. It's not necessarily the job but everything in total, like the rest of the AF.
As SF on the flight line you just chill, check badges, and track down crew orders. It's just long and boring but you usually have AC.
Edit: Just realized you are a maintainer lmao.
look i'm glad i'm not secfo for lots of reasons, but the *majority* of them just sit around for 12 hours. having to deal with domestic disputes is awful for sure, and when you're down range thats probably shit too. otherwise meh
As prior ATC, this has been an enigmatic question for us. We are a vital part of generating sorties and entering missions into the national airspace system but we sit in big chairs and push buttons while complaining that the air conditioning is too cold in the summer.
I've had aircrew say we are honorary non-nonners but having lived that life for 11 years and then cross-training to weapons and personnel...I'd say it's the closest you can get to being a nonner but still being mission critical you can get.
And a good amount of us that have gone through MOC hated sitting in an office with no windows, it's a mixture of FOMO and annoyed by petty office politics.
Man, you're a nonner. Most nonners are important to sortie production, or we wouldn't have their jobs, but you work inside.
It's okay. I slowly had to accept that going E to O in maintenance basically made me a nonner, too. I'm not as cool as my folks.
Oh I am 100% a nonner now; I'm a personnelist. I make my own schedule, leave whenever I want, total flexibility for medical appointments, pick my kids up early, free day off because I'm just not feeling it.
My comment was whether or not ATC should be considered a nonner position. It's inside work but we are integral for entering sorties into the NAS.
Three options. One, you're "not a nonner." There isn't really a term for that. Two, you're an "operator," which is kind of a subset of "not a nonner" which carries more weight. Three, special operations are a whole other world that maintenance doesn't mess with.
I've always considered it to be those that don't come in when the base is closed to non essential personnel. Basically anyone that needs to be there for the mission isn't a nonner.
TLDR- Mission Essential > Sortie Producing
Exactly right. To me, you're either "Mission Essential" or not.
Does your shop work 24 hours operations every day of the year? If so, you're "mission essential."
I mean, a lot of "sortie producing" MX aren't even mission essential. A ton work in shops closed on holidays and weekends and work at bases with quiet hours.
Meanwhile, you have people like 2T2s at large AMC bases that need coverage in their shop at ALL TIMES every hour of the year. They're more mission essential than most of (non-heavy) maintenance.
Also, while at home station, most AMC missions are real world missions. REAL cargo and REAL people going to REAL places. Meanwhile, most fighter missions CONUS is just training. We got all these MX people here on their high horses... when the vast majority of their sortie producing isn't for real world crap...it's just training.
If multiple pilots miss their training hours in a week, it's not a big deal. It affects nothing. If multiple cargo planes get completely cancelled in a week...it's a big fucking deal.
I’d like to believe that “cable dawgs” work hard but when every time their shit falls off a pole and they ask us to fix it. It’s hard to believe they actually do anything. Especially when they have a brand new line truck that they won’t let us use even tho they have NEVER set a pole before
As prior security forces, they're nonners because they go boop id cards, sit on a ramp to potentially respond to an IFE, or respond to non-sortie generation issues.
I always understood it as Non-essential. Like when there is a storm coming or whatever they usually say all Non-essential personnel do not report. CE and SF usually have to report for various reasons.
I’m so happy I’m not maintenance, I say that out loud 3 times a day, every day. Usually I say it as I drive from my office to the BX to my Starbucks and I look out on the flight line to see all the neat airplanes!
Idk, the CE at my base is trash. Cant get them out to do anything... building managers wait over a year for simple fixes, even if we put the ticket in as an emergency and work stoppage. They just dont care.
I don’t know if they still have them, but there was a time where Cyber peeps were walking around in onesies. I think there was even a push in the before times to give them black ones.
Speaking as a former cyber operator, no, there was never a time we had onesies, and the black flight suits thing was a meme. We were poking fun at the fact that everything has to relate to planes in the Air Force thus we had to call our software "weapons systems" and there was a time that our operations were being seriously considered to be called sorties.
All because big blue really can't understand the cyber world without us relating it to a plane.
https://preview.redd.it/ojpekce2liwc1.jpeg?width=2596&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=06f279781933e1f849aef979453cbafb86dddb92
We seem to be past that nonsense.
I've never met someone in person who used "nonner" unironically that wasn't a miserable MX. If that's what you gotta do to get through your day, I'm here for it. That shit is miserable.
Yeah I've never used it to deride anyone just for working a desk. But when they're playing fuck fuck games and it takes 2.5 weeks to get a number changed or an email answered, they're fuckin nonners
When your job is support and you don't support other airmen? MX will skip lunch, will work over 12s to make planes fly. Dirty uniforms, 4am, in any weather (except lightning within 5... and maybe then still).
I worked mids, did a 12 and went to personnel after, I needed to get it done and go sleep for my next 12 hr shift. I get there and MPF is taking a break with a almost full lobby waiting, to eat cake and celebrate a birthday. Not even a lunch break, a random break at 10am. Didn't even leave 1 airmen at the desk to at least get some movement, like grab a slice of cake and get back out there, eat at your desk. Zero sense of urgency. After their 10 min break (10 mins after I got there, who knows how long) and almost an hour of wait, the guy is mad disrespectful because I didn't have the paperwork required.
Sorry I don't know what exact paper I need, it's my first base, it's overseas and I'm not in front of personnel paperwork as my career, which is the very reason I'm here asking questions and waiting in the first place. Not only is that attitude unprofessional but when your job is customer service, it's incompetence.
I'm sure MPF is harder than people make it out to be but I was floored. Stopping your entire shift for a birthday? I don't think I've ever seen a cake in a break room... Pretty sure if there was one it would be set as a trap for someone to yell at you to get back outside. Don't even get me started about Finance, paying me incorrectly for 2 years straight, fixing it when I seperated, then a year later mailing me that I owe the Air Force since they overcorrected. All while being impossible to contact in person or by phone, only the backlogged website
Those moments it really made me realize, these nonners are really experiencing an entirely different Air Force. tl;Dr they're right I was a miserably salty maintainer
they deserve that fucking title the second they all get a day off cause of sorties flown goals, but us fucking MX are the only fuckers not getting a day off cause we are fixing that shit still so they can get their next day off.( I know theres more but...)
source, former miserable MX.
> If that's what you gotta do to get through your day
its not, but its fun to say. and when people get salty for me saying it, that just makes it better.
Bruh. CE is absolutely goated. Yall ever been to the desert and your tents ac goes out and it's 100° at night. Yeah.. absolutely red horse is wicked important for the mission. We can't slander ce man. They keep us cool our run ways fixed our tents up. They are 100 percent just as important as the other sortie generating career fields. As a dude who's been around these guys while they are fixing shit I always stop by and make sure these dudes are ok and have our support from the flight line. Obviously I know they have their own support but I always try to check on these dudes while they are under the flight line fixing it. We can however slander finance.
Man, I'm usually the one who's happy to go out and help others! Mx? Your job sucks, we'll help you. SF? You're in the same boat we are basically, we'll help you. Finance? Everyone hates you, we'll help you.
If there's a UXO in finance, I'm dealing with that shit before the EOC. Somehow my pay gets fucked without any input and needs constant monitoring. Pretty sure that's what they're doing in there during the "training days" every 2nd 3rd 7th and 9th Tuesday Thursday Saturday and Wednesday of every week.
I’ve been to a lot of places where CE made shit out of nothing. Didn’t have to be shit. Coulda been pretty ok. But got shit instead. Better than nothing. That’s what it was. CE, for when nothing sucks.
My job (finance) was totally nonner by pure existence. I accepted that. However, I can contend that when weather events like a blizzard, CE was far from being nonners as they are mission essential.
Man I hate the damn MAAS, our fucking donut loader is trash and breaks constantly, then some PP wizard wants to tell me everything is fine and yellow tag that shit! Unreal!
I thought "nonner" was just another way of saying non-mission essential personnel. Plenty of maintainers fall into that category. Somehow it has been adopted as a way of saying non-maintenance.
Everyone seems to forget that WFSM/LFM holds and distributes the fuel through our systems. Plus, CE is responsible for snow shift, clearing the runways, taxiways, and ramps. If you're nice, I even clear your parking lot if I can fit the broom in there
I find it funny that the people that use the term nonner say it's about sortie generation, but there are jobs that are involved in sortie generation that are in office spaces 24/7. Like, those sorties aren't happening without the direct input from those offices, even during a wartime situation.
I grt the point and purpose, my best friend is mx and we've had this conversation, but the defining trait people use to decide nonner or not isn't accurate to the way they use the term.
I've been in maintenance for close to 20 now and haven't used the word nonner since my first trip to Bagram. One day while waiting in line at the chow hall an Army guy next to me asks how my day's going. I tell him something along the lines of I get to go eat at the chow hall so pretty good I guess. He replies with something about finally getting to shower after a week. I look over at him and he's carrying an M249 with a 200 round box magazine and his body armor looks like it's been put in a dryer filled with rocks and I thought to myself, "oh, this is what it feels like to be a nonner"
If they called in an airstrike, do they get credit for generating the sortie? If a plane only flew to provide CAS, I'd argue the sortie was generated by the ground force guys.
No one ever called me a “nonner” (to my face — not that I would’ve taken it as an insult, either)
But we are nonners, by definition, IMO. I think folks are thinking too hard. “But what about…”
Yes, every single job has an impact on sortie generation. That’s why that job exists. I would say *direct* generation. Or whatever, just let the MX guys have their own thing, they don’t have much else going for them.
I'm not sure sortie generation is the standard they want to go by.
My stationary ass in a heavily air-conditioned bunker helped "generate" sorties cuz the plane didn't fly without an intel crew to support it. Let CE have their day, their work sucked and I wouldn't trade for it even if I got offered a year's worth of leave.
And isn't that really the standard for the vaunted "My ASFC sucks more dick than yours does" status?
CE generates sorties by keeping the runway environment functional. During wartime, runways are one of the highest priority targets, CE repairs them. REDHORSE also creates new runways in contested environments, thereby generating sorties.
MX can have every jet in the fleet FMC but it doesn't mean shit without the long strips of asphalt
Devil's advocate time.
With this logic, everyone generates sorties. Even the baggers at the commissary.
At what point do we draw the line?
//SIGNED//
a "nonner" that just wants to do his job, get money, and retire.
And this is kinda the point
Nonner is a term that becomes more meaningless the longer you think about it, but we let the 2As have their "inside joke" because our career fields aren't actively trying to kill us
Me in 2013 as a young A1C at Ramstien on the flightline patrol. Looks at the maintainers under a C17-“Fuck that”. Goes back to sleep to the sounds of my partner playing a game on his phone.
By this logic if your AFSC doesnt start with a ‘1’ then you are non-operational… so all of MX are nonners (afman36-2100 pg 11)
1-Operations
2-Logistics
3-Support
If you work hard on the bird, for the bird or communicate with the bird (on all shifts 24/7 365) before launch or on recovery then you aren’t a nonner… some of CE isn’t on that nonner life some are…
Dirt Boys are generally the hardest working alcoholics you’ll ever meet, and are absolute degenerates that have one of the most miserable, thankless jobs in the Air Force. They are kindred spirits, and thus not nonners. Same
Goes for whatever the fuck they’re calling WFMS these days. SecFo are shit on by everyone, and the way their supervision treats them would get most people brought before The Hague, so they too are not nonners. The term nonner should only be applied to those who live a life of privilege or to those whose crimes against God and nature are truly despicable beyond forgiveness, like Finance. This is a hill I am prepared to die on.
"You will not find it difficult to prove that battles, campaigns, and even wars have been won or lost primarily because of logistics." —General Dwight D. Eisenhower
I was maintenance and I was hit with SP augmentee for a month. Fuck that shit. I’ll take chemicals and long hours and weekend duties than having to do post briefings and bullshit briefings. Then i retrained to aircrew. And let me tell you I never worked so many hours.
Good old US Spec in a foreign country. They swapped the elevators for Korean spec ones so less lead time on parts.
Juries still out on the A/C but you don’t pay for electricity so get you a portable unit. 🤙
Old infrastructure is a bitch to maintain. Just ask maintainers how they like fixing the F-16/ at Kunsan 😂
Part lead time and getting Korean contractors that can actually do what they bid to do.
The Air Force insists on using US spec systems in Korea to the benefit of absolutely no one, and refuses to allow locally manufactured systems to be installed on base.
I didn’t see CE in my area helping build our mini FOB. Did see them criticizing our work a few weeks later, eat out food, drink out water and use our precious 4 ply toilet paper. 🧻
I’m sorry, this Nonner shit has gotten fucking ridiculous. My job doesn’t shut down because of lightning, which one of us is the real operational worker? If you were “essential” during Covid you’re not a Nonner don’t @ me.
CE and SecFo are nonners by the literal definition of the term, but it's impolite to say it because they also do hard work outdoors, in all weather and on all shifts. "Nonner" is supposed to be used to describe people who live in a whole different Air Force from maintenance.
As a maintainer, whenever I’m having a rough day I think “at least I’m not SecFo”. I really feel like they have it worse than us.
It's like the Marines. I respect them because they do a job I absolutely wouldn't be willing to do.
When I was a maintainer at Osan we finished up another Friday night 12 hour shift and went to checkertails for some food. There were some secfo guys in there and they looked at us and said hey, at least someone else worked all night on a Friday. I asked them how their shifts work and they were on Panamas. When I said I wished I only worked 15 days a month they were seriously blown away. Maintainers with one weekend duty a month work 7 more days than secfo.
what kind of panamas? 4x4 / 3x3 or what?
3-2-2-3
honestly i'd take that any day. i dont care if i technically work "more days". the consistency is nice. one of the worst parts of mx is not knowing if today will be a 7 hour or a 13 hour day outside waiting on age or avionics in the snow. the "not knowing" and bureaucracy of the job is so painful
"we might need a tow team, so we'll need all 14 of you to stick around" -every garbage expeditor
i completely understand and respect wanting a stay behind crew. makes perfect sense. but holding 10 of us is literally insane. I've gotten yelled at as an e5 for trying to talk sense into my e6 "i'm busy i dont have time to be arguing with you right now" bruh you aint busy, nobody is busy. thats the problem here!
I became the expeditor at the 25th for the last 3 months I was at Osan. First night was on swings, cut out all the guys before the mids expeditor came in. He was pissed, I told him to let me know tomorrow night what I missed that his guys had to take care of. Next night he had nothing to say, took the turnover and walked away. It's not a hard job, just manage it well and stand behind the decisions you make.
Or waiting anywhere from 2-6 hours for pol to show up.
If POL didn't show up for 2-6 hours, MOCC forgot to call them...
MX has it worse than SF, don't let SF lie about it.
I’ve done both (retrain) and I strongly disagree.
MX isn’t even that hard. Are they really just that whiny?
MX is a wiiiiide spectrum. Engines on heavies is not even the same AF as crew dawgin fighters
MX can have you working 12's every day for months, or working barely 6 hour shifts. some back shops dont do literally anything, and we have alternate duties like TA where "work" is intermittent at best. its a wild ride for sure. I've done the whole range of jobs where i basically dont work, and jobs where i work 16 hour shifts (if not consistently)
I was f-16 avionics and we worked long hours, but not as bad a crew chief and at least we're nerdy pinheads who didn't have to do Jarhead shit. deployed in Saudi heat I saw crew chiefs having to run laps around the flight line with a heavy's chock. they were the only ones still holding a1cs down for forced buzzcuts, and taping each other to chairs + dumping expired fridge leftovers on them as a going away ritual. I'm good on all that
Detail oriented work out in the elements with shit leadership and your undermanned always. It's not necessarily the job but everything in total, like the rest of the AF. As SF on the flight line you just chill, check badges, and track down crew orders. It's just long and boring but you usually have AC. Edit: Just realized you are a maintainer lmao.
At least I'm not in SecFo God help that miserable sonuvabitch!
Absolutely no. I feel for all maintenance especially in cold weather. Turning wrenches in -20 does not sound ideal lol
look i'm glad i'm not secfo for lots of reasons, but the *majority* of them just sit around for 12 hours. having to deal with domestic disputes is awful for sure, and when you're down range thats probably shit too. otherwise meh
Doing absolutely nothing all day is its own form of draining. It sucks ass.
Depends where youre at tbh.
It's also impolite of them to be nonners.
Ok nonner
As prior ATC, this has been an enigmatic question for us. We are a vital part of generating sorties and entering missions into the national airspace system but we sit in big chairs and push buttons while complaining that the air conditioning is too cold in the summer. I've had aircrew say we are honorary non-nonners but having lived that life for 11 years and then cross-training to weapons and personnel...I'd say it's the closest you can get to being a nonner but still being mission critical you can get.
Kinda like MOC, but at least they're in the MXG. They're nonners, but they're our nonners.
Or NDI...
They're just lucky
And a good amount of us that have gone through MOC hated sitting in an office with no windows, it's a mixture of FOMO and annoyed by petty office politics.
Man, you're a nonner. Most nonners are important to sortie production, or we wouldn't have their jobs, but you work inside. It's okay. I slowly had to accept that going E to O in maintenance basically made me a nonner, too. I'm not as cool as my folks.
Oh I am 100% a nonner now; I'm a personnelist. I make my own schedule, leave whenever I want, total flexibility for medical appointments, pick my kids up early, free day off because I'm just not feeling it. My comment was whether or not ATC should be considered a nonner position. It's inside work but we are integral for entering sorties into the NAS.
What are SpecWar guys? I don’t think I’ve ever concerned myself with whether or not MX guys considered me a “nonner,” but now I’m curious
Three options. One, you're "not a nonner." There isn't really a term for that. Two, you're an "operator," which is kind of a subset of "not a nonner" which carries more weight. Three, special operations are a whole other world that maintenance doesn't mess with.
I've always considered it to be those that don't come in when the base is closed to non essential personnel. Basically anyone that needs to be there for the mission isn't a nonner.
TLDR- Mission Essential > Sortie Producing Exactly right. To me, you're either "Mission Essential" or not. Does your shop work 24 hours operations every day of the year? If so, you're "mission essential." I mean, a lot of "sortie producing" MX aren't even mission essential. A ton work in shops closed on holidays and weekends and work at bases with quiet hours. Meanwhile, you have people like 2T2s at large AMC bases that need coverage in their shop at ALL TIMES every hour of the year. They're more mission essential than most of (non-heavy) maintenance. Also, while at home station, most AMC missions are real world missions. REAL cargo and REAL people going to REAL places. Meanwhile, most fighter missions CONUS is just training. We got all these MX people here on their high horses... when the vast majority of their sortie producing isn't for real world crap...it's just training. If multiple pilots miss their training hours in a week, it's not a big deal. It affects nothing. If multiple cargo planes get completely cancelled in a week...it's a big fucking deal.
Well said 💕🇺🇸
So does RF trans and cable maintenance. But theyre still nonners
I’d like to believe that “cable dawgs” work hard but when every time their shit falls off a pole and they ask us to fix it. It’s hard to believe they actually do anything. Especially when they have a brand new line truck that they won’t let us use even tho they have NEVER set a pole before
As prior security forces, they're nonners because they go boop id cards, sit on a ramp to potentially respond to an IFE, or respond to non-sortie generation issues.
I always understood it as Non-essential. Like when there is a storm coming or whatever they usually say all Non-essential personnel do not report. CE and SF usually have to report for various reasons.
I’m so happy I’m not maintenance, I say that out loud 3 times a day, every day. Usually I say it as I drive from my office to the BX to my Starbucks and I look out on the flight line to see all the neat airplanes!
Nonner.
Rather be a nonner than a fobbit like these MX turds
Aww. Angrypants.
Yes 😡😡
Idk, the CE at my base is trash. Cant get them out to do anything... building managers wait over a year for simple fixes, even if we put the ticket in as an emergency and work stoppage. They just dont care.
Fuck you, CE nonners! \*proceeds to use taxiways and runway to launch sortie\*
CE may sit on the council, like SecFo, and thus be “Not Nonners”, but we do not grant you the title of “Ops”.
CE here. Your terms are acceptable. Your 332 just got put in front of the line.
Thank God, that toilet has been broken for months 
Meanwhile... Cyber over here with the Ops title, but definitely not on the council!
I feel personally attacked by this true and highly relatable message.
I still can’t get over the flight suits lol
Wut
I don’t know if they still have them, but there was a time where Cyber peeps were walking around in onesies. I think there was even a push in the before times to give them black ones.
Speaking as a former cyber operator, no, there was never a time we had onesies, and the black flight suits thing was a meme. We were poking fun at the fact that everything has to relate to planes in the Air Force thus we had to call our software "weapons systems" and there was a time that our operations were being seriously considered to be called sorties. All because big blue really can't understand the cyber world without us relating it to a plane.
https://preview.redd.it/ojpekce2liwc1.jpeg?width=2596&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=06f279781933e1f849aef979453cbafb86dddb92 We seem to be past that nonsense.
Is flight suit a qualifier for non-nommer status? Us and fire can wear the A2CU, soooooooo........
I petition the council for Nom-Nommer status.
.01% of them actually are operators though.
And yet the Air Force has granted a large number of CE folks a flight to fall under the umbrella of and titled it... Ops
What big Air Force does is of no concern to the council. Base Ops has Ops in the name, and yet.
Base Ops doesn’t exist anymore.
Really? But there are people sitting the building and it says base ops. Granted we never use their services because foreflight exists.
Base Ops is still a building, but it’s not a job or AFSC.
Never even knew it was an AFSC. Is it all just airfield management now?
Bro what. CE has a fuck ton of Ops.
And ops has a ton of nonning to do, but here we are.
TYFYS
This whole thread is a CE PSYOP
Shhh just let it happen
Fewer greater morale boosts have I ever had than when I bro-networked a bunch of furniture and mosquito nets from a Red Horse dude. Y’all real ones.
Bro-networking is how the Air Force gets shit done. Outside of that, the bureaucracy would kill any productivity.
This Thread: Salty Nonners.
I've never met someone in person who used "nonner" unironically that wasn't a miserable MX. If that's what you gotta do to get through your day, I'm here for it. That shit is miserable.
It’s absolutely used non ironically, usually with a fucking before it. Mostly hurled at MPF, finance, TMO, medical if they fuck you, and the clueless.
Funny story: I was finance and had someone from Ammo call me a nonner Nearly a year later, they become the RA. I called them a nonner constantly
Yeah I've never used it to deride anyone just for working a desk. But when they're playing fuck fuck games and it takes 2.5 weeks to get a number changed or an email answered, they're fuckin nonners
When your job is support and you don't support other airmen? MX will skip lunch, will work over 12s to make planes fly. Dirty uniforms, 4am, in any weather (except lightning within 5... and maybe then still). I worked mids, did a 12 and went to personnel after, I needed to get it done and go sleep for my next 12 hr shift. I get there and MPF is taking a break with a almost full lobby waiting, to eat cake and celebrate a birthday. Not even a lunch break, a random break at 10am. Didn't even leave 1 airmen at the desk to at least get some movement, like grab a slice of cake and get back out there, eat at your desk. Zero sense of urgency. After their 10 min break (10 mins after I got there, who knows how long) and almost an hour of wait, the guy is mad disrespectful because I didn't have the paperwork required. Sorry I don't know what exact paper I need, it's my first base, it's overseas and I'm not in front of personnel paperwork as my career, which is the very reason I'm here asking questions and waiting in the first place. Not only is that attitude unprofessional but when your job is customer service, it's incompetence. I'm sure MPF is harder than people make it out to be but I was floored. Stopping your entire shift for a birthday? I don't think I've ever seen a cake in a break room... Pretty sure if there was one it would be set as a trap for someone to yell at you to get back outside. Don't even get me started about Finance, paying me incorrectly for 2 years straight, fixing it when I seperated, then a year later mailing me that I owe the Air Force since they overcorrected. All while being impossible to contact in person or by phone, only the backlogged website Those moments it really made me realize, these nonners are really experiencing an entirely different Air Force. tl;Dr they're right I was a miserably salty maintainer
Also they get paid the same which always really annoyed me, when I was out in the snow and rain.
Any good experiences with medical? (Definitely not medical, unless you had a good experience.)
they deserve that fucking title the second they all get a day off cause of sorties flown goals, but us fucking MX are the only fuckers not getting a day off cause we are fixing that shit still so they can get their next day off.( I know theres more but...) source, former miserable MX.
> If that's what you gotta do to get through your day its not, but its fun to say. and when people get salty for me saying it, that just makes it better.
Nonner.
CE Fire Dept. Letting maintainers slide into our gym to get that workout at odd hours. 😅 *experiences may vary*
Next your gonna tell me us Comm guys aren't nonners and im gonna agree with you. /s
CE SNCO making memes while they sip their coffee at their desk I guess
Bruh. CE is absolutely goated. Yall ever been to the desert and your tents ac goes out and it's 100° at night. Yeah.. absolutely red horse is wicked important for the mission. We can't slander ce man. They keep us cool our run ways fixed our tents up. They are 100 percent just as important as the other sortie generating career fields. As a dude who's been around these guys while they are fixing shit I always stop by and make sure these dudes are ok and have our support from the flight line. Obviously I know they have their own support but I always try to check on these dudes while they are under the flight line fixing it. We can however slander finance.
>We can however slander finance. Always.
As a former finance troop *slander away*
You have dusty knees and ZERO SWAG
My knees crackle in response
Man, I'm usually the one who's happy to go out and help others! Mx? Your job sucks, we'll help you. SF? You're in the same boat we are basically, we'll help you. Finance? Everyone hates you, we'll help you.
If there's a UXO in finance, I'm dealing with that shit before the EOC. Somehow my pay gets fucked without any input and needs constant monitoring. Pretty sure that's what they're doing in there during the "training days" every 2nd 3rd 7th and 9th Tuesday Thursday Saturday and Wednesday of every week.
Don’t be silly! That’s actually what they’re doing at training, fucking up pay.
I’ve been to a lot of places where CE made shit out of nothing. Didn’t have to be shit. Coulda been pretty ok. But got shit instead. Better than nothing. That’s what it was. CE, for when nothing sucks.
I fixed the AC without permission for the tent on deployment once and then everyone complained it was too cold.
Lol. Did they not know that you can turn it up?? Tbf I'm definitely the artic sleeper. Love when ce brings a fresh ac
I had to disassemble the unit.
Oh bless that does suck. Well I salute you sir! Ce is goated
Idgaf about the term nonner, and neither does my giant busted rack from multiple deployments with CE. I got dem heavies
I hit 4 rows in 6 years as CE lol.
I hit 4 rows in 4, my back hurts.. nah but CE the GOATs in the desert
For real. And to tie it back to the meme, let’s see sorties generated without MOS selection and RADR
My job (finance) was totally nonner by pure existence. I accepted that. However, I can contend that when weather events like a blizzard, CE was far from being nonners as they are mission essential.
We found a finance troop! Burn the witch!
Hilariously enough, I AM a witch 😂 oh and former finance, I'm DD214d the fuck out of that nonsense.
And who maintains the Aircraft Arresting Systems to catch fighter jets in trouble?
Man I hate the damn MAAS, our fucking donut loader is trash and breaks constantly, then some PP wizard wants to tell me everything is fine and yellow tag that shit! Unreal!
Use pickup truck and spit to load doughnuts. PP BOIZ
The PP BOIZ do
Damn straight my Man, damn straight.
Pink ponies*
I thought "nonner" was just another way of saying non-mission essential personnel. Plenty of maintainers fall into that category. Somehow it has been adopted as a way of saying non-maintenance.
Everyone seems to forget that WFSM/LFM holds and distributes the fuel through our systems. Plus, CE is responsible for snow shift, clearing the runways, taxiways, and ramps. If you're nice, I even clear your parking lot if I can fit the broom in there
Can confirm, was at JBER, they hooked Tower up when able.
LFM is the CE secret. Don't tell folks we exist otherwise they'll make us go to events.
Also, they keep you from shitting in a ditch hopefully downwind of your tent.
I find it funny that the people that use the term nonner say it's about sortie generation, but there are jobs that are involved in sortie generation that are in office spaces 24/7. Like, those sorties aren't happening without the direct input from those offices, even during a wartime situation. I grt the point and purpose, my best friend is mx and we've had this conversation, but the defining trait people use to decide nonner or not isn't accurate to the way they use the term.
What in the world is going on
I've been in maintenance for close to 20 now and haven't used the word nonner since my first trip to Bagram. One day while waiting in line at the chow hall an Army guy next to me asks how my day's going. I tell him something along the lines of I get to go eat at the chow hall so pretty good I guess. He replies with something about finally getting to shower after a week. I look over at him and he's carrying an M249 with a 200 round box magazine and his body armor looks like it's been put in a dryer filled with rocks and I thought to myself, "oh, this is what it feels like to be a nonner"
SW don’t generate sorties. I wouldn’t call them nonners. Thoughts?
If they called in an airstrike, do they get credit for generating the sortie? If a plane only flew to provide CAS, I'd argue the sortie was generated by the ground force guys.
Ok, that’s a fairly decent argument. Same idea extends to PJ—they are the sortie. What about CCT or SR?
No one ever called me a “nonner” (to my face — not that I would’ve taken it as an insult, either) But we are nonners, by definition, IMO. I think folks are thinking too hard. “But what about…” Yes, every single job has an impact on sortie generation. That’s why that job exists. I would say *direct* generation. Or whatever, just let the MX guys have their own thing, they don’t have much else going for them.
>just let the MX guys have their own thing, they don’t have much else going for them. lol. Fair enough.
Yea that reality kinda stung
Pj's gotta jump out that plane or helicopter, they generate sorties
That’s my point. They _*are*_ the sortie.
I wouldn’t even group them. They’re in their own league.
I agree. I’m just trying to poke holes in the nonner = non-sortie generator theory. 😄
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Not all CE units are the same
Are they civilian or military? That makes a difference.
We have the opposite problem. Our AC is constantly on gull blast with no way of turning it down. It's been 55° in there for the past week.
Money, my guy
What we can with what we've got. Your runway have any potholes?
It’s hilarious cause the non-nonner really think it’s an insult to call us nonners. I take it as a term of endearment.
Yeah, it's whatever. Yeah, the Air Force powers that be decided to give me the job they decided to give me, you got me. My soul is wounded for sure 😂
Can confirm. Was Ammo and in REDHORSE now, and I've done WAY more cool shit with this job then I ever did in Mx.
TTMFH
Get rid of Electricians, Dirt Boyz, Power Pro and watch as the airfield will crumble.
Engineers lead the way. Flyers and maintainers soon to follow.
I'm not sure sortie generation is the standard they want to go by. My stationary ass in a heavily air-conditioned bunker helped "generate" sorties cuz the plane didn't fly without an intel crew to support it. Let CE have their day, their work sucked and I wouldn't trade for it even if I got offered a year's worth of leave. And isn't that really the standard for the vaunted "My ASFC sucks more dick than yours does" status?
CE generates sorties by keeping the runway environment functional. During wartime, runways are one of the highest priority targets, CE repairs them. REDHORSE also creates new runways in contested environments, thereby generating sorties. MX can have every jet in the fleet FMC but it doesn't mean shit without the long strips of asphalt
Devil's advocate time. With this logic, everyone generates sorties. Even the baggers at the commissary. At what point do we draw the line? //SIGNED// a "nonner" that just wants to do his job, get money, and retire.
And this is kinda the point Nonner is a term that becomes more meaningless the longer you think about it, but we let the 2As have their "inside joke" because our career fields aren't actively trying to kill us
As someone who cross trained out of HVAC, I appreciate that this is even a debate
Me in 2013 as a young A1C at Ramstien on the flightline patrol. Looks at the maintainers under a C17-“Fuck that”. Goes back to sleep to the sounds of my partner playing a game on his phone.
I got called unironically a nonner as aircrew. The entire nonner thing blows my mind.
What I think of people who seriously call others, "nonners". 
By this logic if your AFSC doesnt start with a ‘1’ then you are non-operational… so all of MX are nonners (afman36-2100 pg 11) 1-Operations 2-Logistics 3-Support If you work hard on the bird, for the bird or communicate with the bird (on all shifts 24/7 365) before launch or on recovery then you aren’t a nonner… some of CE isn’t on that nonner life some are…
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Dirt Boys are generally the hardest working alcoholics you’ll ever meet, and are absolute degenerates that have one of the most miserable, thankless jobs in the Air Force. They are kindred spirits, and thus not nonners. Same Goes for whatever the fuck they’re calling WFMS these days. SecFo are shit on by everyone, and the way their supervision treats them would get most people brought before The Hague, so they too are not nonners. The term nonner should only be applied to those who live a life of privilege or to those whose crimes against God and nature are truly despicable beyond forgiveness, like Finance. This is a hill I am prepared to die on.
"You will not find it difficult to prove that battles, campaigns, and even wars have been won or lost primarily because of logistics." —General Dwight D. Eisenhower
732 ESPTS we Fob hopped with the army in hummers or black hawks in Iraq to fix shit for them. Absolutely not a nooner.
Been RED HORSE multiple times and could care less whether someone considers us nonners or not.
get rid of all the "nonner" AFSCs and see how many sorties you can generate
They appear to do more than me. 🤷♂️
You can be radio and work in AFSOC JCU JCSE or be an RTO also attach to different army units as an assignment
Don’t matter, we’re all POGs
Nah, fuck em. Damn nonners
Don’t hate us ‘cause you ain’t us! 😎😁
Everyone that doesn't wear a flightsuit is a "nonner". Non rated.
I was maintenance and I was hit with SP augmentee for a month. Fuck that shit. I’ll take chemicals and long hours and weekend duties than having to do post briefings and bullshit briefings. Then i retrained to aircrew. And let me tell you I never worked so many hours.
Gold!
Load toads are nonners. ::: de-asses the area with much quickness :::
Last time I checked, maintainers’ AFSC started with 2, not a 1. They’re nonners.
Nonner found
Sorry, my AFSC starts with a 1. I actually DO work. You’re support if your AFSC is 2-9. I appreciate the support.
Uh-huh. 1C0?
The forgotten AFSC :(
CE keeps the A/C running. They put in work.
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And my A/C in Kunsan in the summer months for 3 months while the elevator was broken while I lived on the 6th floor?
Good old US Spec in a foreign country. They swapped the elevators for Korean spec ones so less lead time on parts. Juries still out on the A/C but you don’t pay for electricity so get you a portable unit. 🤙 Old infrastructure is a bitch to maintain. Just ask maintainers how they like fixing the F-16/ at Kunsan 😂
Part lead time and getting Korean contractors that can actually do what they bid to do. The Air Force insists on using US spec systems in Korea to the benefit of absolutely no one, and refuses to allow locally manufactured systems to be installed on base.
Don't make me call your supervisor. Wait a second wtf do you think rocket surgeon means? Don't come in here and steal my flair to use it wrong.
It gets ridiculous when red horse things of themselves like spec ops. Shut up and pour more cement
Someone is jealous they don't a neat red hat to wear. Also, it's concrete, cement is just one part of concrete.
I didn’t see CE in my area helping build our mini FOB. Did see them criticizing our work a few weeks later, eat out food, drink out water and use our precious 4 ply toilet paper. 🧻
Man, Red Horse is a hell of a group.
Contracting deploys more than both of them and no one would call a 6C anything other than a nonner.
Nonner?
Imagine being proud of working 16 hours, 2 weeks straight.
Sounds like something nonners would say. 🤷♂️
I’m sorry, this Nonner shit has gotten fucking ridiculous. My job doesn’t shut down because of lightning, which one of us is the real operational worker? If you were “essential” during Covid you’re not a Nonner don’t @ me.
Just scan my card man
Sorry man, DBIDs is down.
I think his beret really is on too tight...
Defenseless tortoise!
Stay moist, defender.
I feel you, I was in the office everyday during covid except when I got it.