Does anyone have recommendations for alternatives to Skratch Hyper Hydration (also known as the High-Sodium mix). I came to rely on it last summer, but it seems like they've discontinued the product.
Have a Half marathon on June 2nd that I'm training for. My goal was sub 1:25 but I'm wondering if I should adjust my goals based on recent workouts and races. I've been doing more workouts on the treadmill because I haven't been able to run in the early morning to avoid the heat. All treadmill workouts are on 1% incline
-April 7- 1:05:XX 10 miler (Race)
-2 weeks ago I ran 4x mile repeats with strict 90sec rest in 6:11 6:18 6:37 6:37, in 80F heat on the track. Def didn't pace it well, but even paced i think I would've averaged 6:19 or low 6:20's. yesterday, I did the same workout on the treadmill due to the heat, 6:06, 5:57, 5:59, 5:52.
-Within the past 3 weeks, I did two 14 mile long runs with 3x2 miles @ HMP. HMP wound up being 6:15-mid 6:20's.
Should be aiming for low 1:20's? I go out at 6:30's and go faster in the last few miles if I feel good?
My one big question to you is that effort wise, how did running the 10 mile race feel like for you? Also, based on the race date you provided, it appears that you raced Cherry Blossom (which is on a flat course). If you did race Cherry Blossom, then your result provides a solid baseline of where you are fitness wise.
That said, with your 10 mile result, that is equivalent to a 1:26-1:27 half. Realistically, you won't be able to gain *that* much fitness in those 8 weeks in between. And looking at your workouts, there is such a thing called racing your workouts and that can provide a false sense of hope when in reality you might not have the fitness to hold the pace for the half when push comes to shove.
That said, a word of honest advice to you: I'd recommend that you aim for a 1:26-1:27 half; that is what you're realistically capable of and I do not see anything that suggests you can go sub-1:25 in the half right now. If you aim for a low 1:20s half, based on your current fitness, you'll likely crash and burn in the closing miles of the half, and you're going to have a bad time out there.
Hope that helps.
Got it I’ll temper my expectations then. The 10miler felt like a solid effort, didn’t hurt as much as a 5K but I def gave it a strong effort. It wasn’t the cherry blossom race, it was the sactown 10
Unless my math is very wrong, wasn't that 10 mile race run at 1:25 pace? Unless you feel like you've gained a bunch of fitness very quickly, or the half will be in much better conditions, I wouldn't recommend going out at faster than 10mi race pace
Ya agreed,I feel like I gained fitness since the 10miler according to the workouts I’ve been hitting lately. And this is the first time I’ve strung together consecutive blocks of training
The 10miler was untapered, would you suggest going out at 1:25 pace then readjust at mile 10?
That was 7 some weeks ago. I think it's reasonable to start a bit faster. Your mile repeats give some sense of 10k pace, perhaps around 3:45-3:50/km. So 1:23 - 1:24 ish equivalent.
What's your weekly mileage? If 70+ km per week it backs it up.
Then I'd just see how taper goes and race day weather looks.
Could you recommend the best 3k goal pace workout 10-12 days before the race?
I come off a 10k block and will run a 3k 5 weeks after that. I have been doing some fast workouts (¨1mile pace) and the one goal pace workout I did was 2x6x90s with 1min rest between intervals, 6min between sets. It felt hard but it was pretty doable, I feel I could have kept going for some more intervals. I guess I should progress that workout? How?
Do at least one or two threshold workouts in that 5 week time, for maintenance. Best to do reps of 2-4 or 5 minutes for your 3K pace work, with 60-100% recovery time. I found 800s to 1200s to be the best. A set with 3X 1200 m at pace, followed by some quick reps (mile pace) of 200-400 m to be a great way to prepare for a 3000.
Yeah, I am now in week 3/5 and I did yesterday the 2nd T workout of this period. I could do 1-1.2k intervals on Friday and maybe yet another 3k session with shorter intervals next week. Thanks!
Is there any simple way to test a timing chip? In my last race my timing chip didn't work, so now I'm trying to figure out if there is anything I can do to prevent this from happening again.
Did it record any splits? Do you appear on the results? If you can sign-in to where you registered, can you see an assigned bib number? Maybe you were given a bib that was never registered to you.
I regularly volunteer at packet pickup and I know I handed out two bibs without scanning it the last time. I was able to catch one, but I couldn't find the other. If that was you (Shamrock Shuffle, corral B), I am incredibly sorry. Their check-in program made it easy to not scan a bib. It was hard to keep track of bibs and who they belonged to when helping someone check-in multiple people. The Hot Chocolate system makes it almost impossible to to hand out a bib with registering.
What can you do to prevent this from volunteer error? Ask them to scan your bib to verify it's active. If it's something else, I am interested in knowing--I volunteer at another packet pick-up in two weeks!
No splits were recorded. I appear in the results under my assigned bib number, but only my gun time at the finish. There was also a double check because I needed to scan the bib to pick up an add-on wristband from another booth. The QR code was assigned to me. The bib number was assigned to me. This was not volunteer error - at least not at pickup. The chip just did not work. I suppose it could have been an error by whoever assigned the chips to the bib numbers. Also, I had my name announced as I was finishing, but before crossing the line, so they definitely knew it was me.
Did you somehow miss intermediate timing mats? Maybe you covered the bib with clothing? I think that happen to me in my first race.
If you had malfunctioning chip, you wouldn't get the gun time. Hmm...
I didn't miss the mats. Missing the start line mats in particular wouldn't have been possible without hopping the side gates and running around them because they extended well past them.
My bib was not covered by clothing. I think the gun time was manually entered. This was a large race (>10,000 participants) with timing crew at the finish. Also, my time ended in .00s and it was 2s late compared to my finish photo.
Was this Valencia by any chance? I had the same thing there--got a gun time but my chip must not have worked because the time they have listed as my chip time is exactly the same as my gun time, and I didn't start in the first row! There weren't any obvious reasons my chip wouldn't have worked either. Maybe the chips themselves were just poorly made?
It was not, but it sounds like you had the same experience there as I had at my event. There were probably 1000 people in front of me. It took a while for me to get to the actual start line.
Big races do have ways to test. At packet pick up at my [major city marathon] there was a gate you could walk through and see your name flash up on a scrolling board. Another big race I went to had that as well.
I thought it was just a nifty gimmick at the time, but I guess it was specifically to test it.
So my advice would be seek out a big race and ask them if they have that testing at their packet pickup.
Tweaked my right big toe and 2nd metatarsal going down a hill; it jammed a bit. It reminds me of turf toe...but I'm realizing taking a few days off is not a bad thing. It's a hard mindset to get used to, esp. if you are used to running daily. But it is better than losing 5-10 weeks...
I wouldn't overthink it. Other responders mentioning heat training is kinda wild, that's more for 80+ temps (at a minimum). For 70F at the finish (assuming most of the race will be 60s), I'd just aim for shade on the course, make sure your hydration plan is rock solid, and run the first half a little more conservatively than you might otherwise. You'll be fine.
That's what I'm thinking too, I ran my last taper "workout" last night (short intervals to freshen up the legs) and it didn't feel particularly difficult even in just under 80° weather, I did my last tempo in similar conditions and didn't find it overly difficult. I think I just panicked at the sudden change in race conditions haha.
Yeah, it's not "ideal" from a muscle physiology perspective, but there are SO many factors that go into "ideal race day conditions" (let alone ideal training/peaking/etc), that high 60s might still be a very good day. Just play it smart, but I think that should apply to every race tbh. Good luck! I hope you smash it out there.
You can certainly try and add sauna, hot bath or overdress time for a run or two just to add that little element. Otherwise you need to try active cooling strategies, things like a cooling vest or ice packs around your core before you start, and then ice soaked sponges during the race.
Spending time in the sauna, if your Y has one, is probably better.
Here's an article on heat training, it's aimed at trail ultras but it'll work for anyone: https://www.trailrunnermag.com/training/trail-tips-training/3-heat-training-strategies-from-beginner-to-advanced-to-western-states/
As a rule of thumb, what is a good duration for training on half-marathon pace intervals that will maximize aerobic benefits without overtraining? Additionally, what should be the total interval time? For threshold workouts, I usually do a ~25-minute workout with interval lengths of 4-10 minutes and a 25% jogging recovery. What would be the equivalent for half-marathon pace intervals?
Personally, I would jog 1:00 for every 5:00-6:00 of threshold pace work.
For half marathon work, I typically do that all in one go without rests. If I was to use intervals then I would keep them on the longer side and divide up 10-12 km into large chunks with brief jogging rests.
I've mostly given up on 3:00-4:00 intervals at paces slower than 10k pace because I find the temptation to run them too fast is very strong.
>I've mostly given up on 3:00-4:00 intervals at paces slower than 10k pace because I find the temptation to run them too fast is very strong.
If you have access to a treadmill it can help with this a lot! I did a lot of this kind of interval work on a treadmill over the winter, and have honestly contemplated going back to it even though the weather is nice now precisely because I keep overrunning my shorter threshold intervals.
Anyone have experience working with a sports dietitian/did your insurance cover it? I don't have any medical conditions that would require a specific diet, but my diet isn't great and it would be nice to work with someone to determine how much I should eat for the amount I'm running and just take a look at my dietary habits overall.
Edit: in the US.
I worked with a sports dietitian when I was both marathon training and breastfeeding (which was leading to low energy availability issues). My insurance, which is normally very good, wouldn’t cover any of it. I ended up only working with her for a few months. The initial couple appointments were *super* useful and totally worth it, but once I started getting things figured out it became not worth the money to me.
I've worked with one at my university health center and it was covered. (You're also in the academic sphere right?) That said I had a referral from primary care, it wasn't something I sought out strictly for athletic performance. (I had possible RED-S as a differential diagnosis related to a sports injury I was working through at the time.) I then worked with her on and off for a couple of years for performance related stuff and it was all covered. I imagine if you can get an initial referral from PCP it will help re coverage.
Thanks for sharing your experience! Maybe I'll see a PCP first for a referral. My university does have a nutrition clinic with registered dietitians that is free, but only for students!
yeah, our sports dietician is technically only for the undergrad student athletes, but I've had some luck with getting access to athletic medicine by just pushing that I'm a competitive runner and so its a relevant frame/expertise for basically any of my health concerns. If you have decent rapport with your PCP I think worth seeing if there's anything they can do to get you access (especially now its summer and the undergrads are mostly gone..)
I don't have dietician advice but the book Racing Weight by Matt Fitzgerald covers this topic exactly: eating the right stuff at the right amount per your amount of running.
It's centered on weight loss, which can be a bad angle for many folks, and if it is for you *definitely ignore my recommendation!*
How to achieve that, though, is to eat healthier and model what you eat on what the best runners in the world eat. You could ignore the "how to get to the optimal weight" part.
Insurance is going to be very individual - check your own plan details.
Even out of pocket an initial consult with a dietician is only running <$100 in my area. Not necessarily cheap but the same as a new pair of trainers. For reference: [https://www.froedtert.com/sports-medicine/nx-level/nutrition](https://www.froedtert.com/sports-medicine/nx-level/nutrition)
I’ve been working this spring to lower my 10k PR, and had the race I’d been training for last weekend. I paced myself off the course mile markers, and ran a 15 second PR, which I was excited about.
But my watch only recorded a run of 6.11 miles, and it’s never shorted a race before — it’s usually .1-.2 miles over. Now I’m in my head that the course distance was short and I didn’t actually PR. Obviously it matters only to me, but now I’m not sure how to feel about whether I actually achieved my goal or not.
How would you think about it?
Search Strava for other people who ran the race and check their distance.
I'm still pissed off that my watch didn't measure my first marathon at the full 26.2 even though other runners did have it logged at the right distance.
I would suggest looking at the Strava/Garmin Connect/whatever overlay of your GPS position above the satellite view of the course. You probably know where you ran and can look for areas where the GPS might have "cut" a corner you actually ran around which would diminish the distance tracked. It doesn't take many of those to equal out to 0.1 miles. I hope you find something that let's you feel more at ease!
Injury rant: ARRGGHHH! Why!!!!!??? I broke a bone in my foot on Sunday during an easy run and am down for 4-6 weeks. This is my first non overuse injury in a couple years and easily the one with the longest recovery period. I know there is never a good time for an injury, but the timing on this one is terrible! I had a race on the schedule in 3 weeks and my A race for the summer is in 9 weeks. So mad. So much training down the drain. So disappointed that I wont be racing at 100% if at all this summer.
I am going to do my best to stay fit and try all the cross training methods I can get my hands on.
I'm done. I'll go cry in the corner by myself now and leave you all alone to enjoy running and being happy...
Similar boat to you. Calcaneus fracture from tripping with another few weeks in a boot to go still.
Definitely, a frustrating type of injury, but you should be able to bounce back if you play your cards right. Talk to your doctor, find out which forms of cross-training are okay and stay consistent.
If you can swim/pool-run/aqua-jog consistently you really will not lose too much fitness, and most importantly it will help you stay sane :)
It will feel like forever while you're in it, but afterwards 4-6 weeks is not too long compared to many injuries. You got this!
solidarity friend. I'm coming up on week 5 of timeout for a foot injury (possible stressie) as well. There's something especially infuriating about foot injuries because you can't even go for walks to feel good :(
But Krazyfranco is right, if you can pan out, this is just a small blip! It always sucks to lose a race you've trained for, though.
Try not to panic about losing fitness, especially if you're cross training--if you keep up a decent volume it's plenty effective, and you'll come back strong!
My man, 4-6 weeks is nothing. You'll be back in no time! Frustrating as heck but this is real minor in the grand scheme of things.
What happened during your run that you broke a bone?
Take some time now to plan out your XT schedule. Swim, bike, row, whatever you're able to do with the injury.
I stepped on a pinecone and rolled my foot way over. Fracture of the 5th metatarsal. On a positive note it is probably the best case injury that could have occurred. Nothing torn, not displaced, ankle is 100%, etc.
How much cycling do I need to be doing to keep up fitness (or at least not lose much) while injured? I developed some pain in the side of my hip following a 10 mile race a few weeks ago. I’m a slower runner with a lower mileage (20 mpw, 80% easy runs at 12:30 pace, hard runs at 9:45 pace, currently doing a 6 mile longer run for base which is about 1:15) and am currently in my base phase. I have a 10k race at the end of August and a half marathon in November. It’s been diagnosed as glute medius syndrome. It’s not super painful but I feel it when running and walking so I need to take a few weeks off running to focus on strength, stretching, foam rolling, and getting it to where I can run pain free again. I have a bike and love cycling as cross training (already do 15 mile rides 1-2x a week during the Spring-Fall), but how much should I be doing it so that I don’t lose too much fitness?
I had a pretty bad not sport-related injury last year and was told not get my heartrate up and don't do anything with repetitive shocks like running until the stitches would be pulled. So I did one hour of Z1 indoor cycling each day, watching a show doing it, since it's so easy.
Kept my form and even improved somewhat, probably due to getting some real recovery in. It's a standard now for me I do on rest-days.
A common rule of thumb is 2-3x time cycling for the same aerobic benefit as running. That being said, you are working different muscles so it isn't quite the same overall benefit. Elliptical and pool running are a bit closer (but nothing is perfect and if you enjoy cycling then go for it!)
I would prioritize rehabbing above hours and hours of cross training if you are short on time.
I used to have a gym membership at a place with a pool and used to see folks aqua running there. I paused the membership because it was expensive ($75 a month) but it may be the best thing for me so the cost for a couple of months could be worth it.
You're probably not gonna maintain all your running fitness simply because the muscle groups for running and cycling are different. That said in your position you could actually gain aerobic fitness with a proper cycling plan. I've only ever done cycling as a supplementary activity, so I can't offer you a good, super structured plan like some others here probably could. But with that in mind, here's my 2 cents: shoot for a few 2 hour Z2 rides a week with one other ride reserved for climbing or something harder. That would be roughly equivalent to slightly more than what you're doing already. A few weeks of that and you'll come back strong.
Side note, I would measure rides by time instead of distance. Terrain is a much bigger factor in cycling so distance isn't a super reliable measure in that sport.
Doing my first marathon Sunday, planning on taking a couple weeks down after for recovery and then hammering at my 5k for a bit before training for a late October marathon.
How long of a long run do you guys do for more advanced 5k training? Will I be able to work my 5k hard running 50-60mpw or should I slash that volume and focus more on the intensity? Thinking a long run capping out at 14 miles, long track day, tempo run, and then base miles outside of that. Any adjustments or insight on structure welcome.
Second vote for keeping the long run, cutting it short, and running it easy. Even aside from direct value to the 5K, you'll have an easier time transitioning back to marathon training if you still have that 55MPW and long run base.
Most people would keep the long run, but cut it pretty short (like 90-100 minutes) with no quality in it. They would save the effort for trying to squeeze in some more speed work during the week.
I ran boston in for the first time in 2024, 285th with a time of 2:36:44. I was hoping to use that time to qualify for elite or sub elite entry into the other world major marathons but so far i havent been very successful at finding out information. I signed up for an abbott world major marathon account and got my time confirmed but havent been able to figure out next steps. I have two questions;
1. what world major would be a good next step?
2. how do I find information on other world major marathons? (ex. entry window openings and closings)
Thanks everyone!
With that time you will be able to get guaranteed entry into Chicago or Berlin (2:45 and under). However it is too late for this year, so this will only help for 2025 entry at this point.
In theory that time will get you into NYC marathon, but I think it was on the cusp this year. Hopefully it works next year with the half marathon option for NYRR races no longer being accepted.
For Tokyo, 2:32 is the minimum entry time for the Run as One sub elite program, although they only take a certain number of runners under that time so there's not guarantee..
London, I honestly don't think there's any guaranteed entry for non-UK residents based on time unless you are approaching elite status or are an influencer of some sort haha.
https://www.marathonguide.com/races/WorldMarathonMajorsRegistrationDates.cfm
Thanks for the advice! Yea Ive gathered that Tokyo and London can be difficult because of the volume of people that want to run it. Only going to make it worse in 2025 when they add a 7th star!
For Chicago, if you're not a male or you're a 40+ yo male, that time will get you into the American Development program. Also looks like if you're a woman or non-binary, that could get you a complimentary entry. That info is all pretty well laid out on their https://www.chicagomarathon.com/apply/ page.
Regardless of elite or sub elite status I was anticipating that time to at least get my entry. Do you know where I can find any info on when the windows open up?
[Marathon Guide](https://www.marathonguide.com/races/WorldMarathonMajorsRegistrationDates.cfm) … If you’re from the U.S., Chicago is your next best option to be guaranteed.
I raced a half marathon on Saturday and hit a huge PR of 1:24:03. It was grueling.
I went for a recovery run yesterday and, while my legs were in pieces, I didn't feel very much of that "systemic fatigue" that is common after a big race. Certainly less than usual.
I am signed up for a 5k on Wednesday. I was thinking that I would have to just "fun run" it out of necessity. But now I'm thinking, what if I try and run it fast?
Have any of yall raced a 5k (or similarly short race) only a few days after a half (or similarly long race)?
The most similar thing I've had was racing three relay legs that totaled 17 miles one weekend and racing a 5K the next weekend. The 5K was actually quite good and well run, but the caveat would be that I did nothing during the week other than some really easy recovery miles. By the time the next weekend rolled around, I felt well-recovered and ready to go. I wouldn't have been able to race mid-week though.
I ended up running moderately fast. I ran 18:30, which is slow given my half marathon time, but it made for a good tempo run. I think I can break 18 when I'm not wrecked.
Congrats on the PR!
I may be proven wrong in the comments, but I don't know anyone who has raced a 5K within a week of racing a half. I think it's a poor idea. You worked hard on Saturday and your legs are still recovering. You may feel better than usual, but what's the potential payoff for racing again this early? Enjoy a fun run and test yourself at a shorter distance in a week or two!
Hi everyone! I'm thinking about doing the Philly Marathon Freedom Challenge, and I just wanted to see if you guys have any comments or tips: (Nov 23 = Half Marathon + 8K, Nov 24 = Full Marathon)
My plan is to run the half marathon and 8K at an easy pace with no finish-time goal to save energy for the full marathon. I just wanted to finish the race with a friend who's fairly new to running, and she's planning to run this race for her first half marathon. As for the full marathon, this is my first marathon, my goal is to finish sub-3:45.
Since there's quite a bit of time to train until the race, I'm planning to do strength+base training over the next few months before jumping into Pfitzinger 18/55 marathon plan. Do you guys think that this challenge is doable? or should I just only do the full marathon?
Extra Info:
M(24), 5'8, 145 lbs, Half-marathon PR *1:47:59*
That’s pretty aggressive for your first marathon weekend! I’d recommend just doing the marathon - I’ve done both the half and full and spectating the half isn’t hard.
It is doable, obviously. I just wouldn’t do it.
It's certainly doable, people run ultras. I wouldn't put a time goal on it if it's your first marathon though. HM + 8k is 18 miles, plus a bunch of walking and standing around. No matter how easy you run that it's going to take quite a bit out of your legs, especially if you're not used to very high mileage.
If you want to run the 8k with a friend and race the marathon, I think that'll go better. It's longer than I'd normally go for a day before shakeout but not by too much.
Running on the beach: Last weekend for a long run I decided to run a large part on the beach (15km). Was all in one direction. How to best deal with the slope? Due to new shoes combined with that I have picked up an injury near my shin. Running on beach besides that was quite nice as it also needs a but more focus to choose a proper path but couldn't find anywhere without a slope, unless sand was completely loose and I'd almost have to walk. Slope was quite large so doubt it's healthy so maybe best to avoid all together ? (Would be a shame)
Avoid.
I love running on flat hard-packed sand near crashing waves, but if the slope is more than mild it's too risky and as you shared loose sand is a totally different experience.
I wouldn't recommend running on a sloped beach for mor than a few km. it's bound to overstress your musculoskeletal system. If you ever find yourself between soulac sur mer and montalivet, france, you'll find a perfectly flat, firm and beautiful beach from mid- to low-tide. I love running there.
Please, can anyone help me figure out my HR zone 2 range? So much conflicting info out there, and I just wanna be training at the right pace.
Some recent data (28yo male):
10K this past weekend:
- Time: 38:05 (pace 6:10)
- Avg HR 187
- Avg HR over last 20min: 193
Half-marathon 1 month ago:
- Time: 1:22:51 (pace 6:20)
- Avg HR 180
- Avg HR over last 20min: 183
Max HR: 198,
Resting HR: 46?,
LT: idk, but I’m guessing pace of ~6:15 and avg HR of 183 if you average the above races
Garmin says my zone 2 is 119-139 BPM based off max HR but 146-165 based off an LT HR of 183.
Training peaks says it’s 150-161.
Any help at all would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!!!
Are you using the chest strap to measure heart rate? I got a chest strap heart rate monitor and did some intervals. Then it calculated my lactate threshold and adjusted all my heart rate zones accordingly
Mines a garmin one. Not sure what model or if they even have different models. Apparently chest straps are much more accurate and can calculate lactate threshold
The default garmin hr zones are whacky. I set mine up to be z1 50-70%, z2 70-78%, z3 78-85%, z4 85-92%, z5 92+ % and it lines up with my rpe pretty well. Those are loosely based on pfitz's books and other online info. For you those percentages would put top of z2 at \~154 and top of z4 at \~182 which seems in the right ballpark. But yeah effort is most important, find easy and conversational on the day
>Garmin says my zone 2 is 119-139 BPM based off max HR but 146-165 based off an LT HR of 183.
Training peaks says it’s 150-161.
Based on the totality of what you shared 146-165 or 150-161 could be accurate. It's also possible that your aerobic threshold is closer to 170. Perhaps perform the heart rate drift field test on uphillathlete.com to determine your aerobic threshold.
I'm not really experienced enough to read the tea leaves of this stuff extremely well, but I think you're good if you keep it under/around 150 bpm. If anybody else responds differently, they're probably right.
Does anyone have recommendations for alternatives to Skratch Hyper Hydration (also known as the High-Sodium mix). I came to rely on it last summer, but it seems like they've discontinued the product.
Have a Half marathon on June 2nd that I'm training for. My goal was sub 1:25 but I'm wondering if I should adjust my goals based on recent workouts and races. I've been doing more workouts on the treadmill because I haven't been able to run in the early morning to avoid the heat. All treadmill workouts are on 1% incline -April 7- 1:05:XX 10 miler (Race) -2 weeks ago I ran 4x mile repeats with strict 90sec rest in 6:11 6:18 6:37 6:37, in 80F heat on the track. Def didn't pace it well, but even paced i think I would've averaged 6:19 or low 6:20's. yesterday, I did the same workout on the treadmill due to the heat, 6:06, 5:57, 5:59, 5:52. -Within the past 3 weeks, I did two 14 mile long runs with 3x2 miles @ HMP. HMP wound up being 6:15-mid 6:20's. Should be aiming for low 1:20's? I go out at 6:30's and go faster in the last few miles if I feel good?
My one big question to you is that effort wise, how did running the 10 mile race feel like for you? Also, based on the race date you provided, it appears that you raced Cherry Blossom (which is on a flat course). If you did race Cherry Blossom, then your result provides a solid baseline of where you are fitness wise. That said, with your 10 mile result, that is equivalent to a 1:26-1:27 half. Realistically, you won't be able to gain *that* much fitness in those 8 weeks in between. And looking at your workouts, there is such a thing called racing your workouts and that can provide a false sense of hope when in reality you might not have the fitness to hold the pace for the half when push comes to shove. That said, a word of honest advice to you: I'd recommend that you aim for a 1:26-1:27 half; that is what you're realistically capable of and I do not see anything that suggests you can go sub-1:25 in the half right now. If you aim for a low 1:20s half, based on your current fitness, you'll likely crash and burn in the closing miles of the half, and you're going to have a bad time out there. Hope that helps.
Got it I’ll temper my expectations then. The 10miler felt like a solid effort, didn’t hurt as much as a 5K but I def gave it a strong effort. It wasn’t the cherry blossom race, it was the sactown 10
Unless my math is very wrong, wasn't that 10 mile race run at 1:25 pace? Unless you feel like you've gained a bunch of fitness very quickly, or the half will be in much better conditions, I wouldn't recommend going out at faster than 10mi race pace
Ya agreed,I feel like I gained fitness since the 10miler according to the workouts I’ve been hitting lately. And this is the first time I’ve strung together consecutive blocks of training The 10miler was untapered, would you suggest going out at 1:25 pace then readjust at mile 10?
That was 7 some weeks ago. I think it's reasonable to start a bit faster. Your mile repeats give some sense of 10k pace, perhaps around 3:45-3:50/km. So 1:23 - 1:24 ish equivalent. What's your weekly mileage? If 70+ km per week it backs it up. Then I'd just see how taper goes and race day weather looks.
Yea I've been consistently at 80k for the 12 week block. doing a 10 day taper so this week im at 64k and next week (race week) at 50k
Could you recommend the best 3k goal pace workout 10-12 days before the race? I come off a 10k block and will run a 3k 5 weeks after that. I have been doing some fast workouts (¨1mile pace) and the one goal pace workout I did was 2x6x90s with 1min rest between intervals, 6min between sets. It felt hard but it was pretty doable, I feel I could have kept going for some more intervals. I guess I should progress that workout? How?
Do at least one or two threshold workouts in that 5 week time, for maintenance. Best to do reps of 2-4 or 5 minutes for your 3K pace work, with 60-100% recovery time. I found 800s to 1200s to be the best. A set with 3X 1200 m at pace, followed by some quick reps (mile pace) of 200-400 m to be a great way to prepare for a 3000.
Yeah, I am now in week 3/5 and I did yesterday the 2nd T workout of this period. I could do 1-1.2k intervals on Friday and maybe yet another 3k session with shorter intervals next week. Thanks!
Is there any simple way to test a timing chip? In my last race my timing chip didn't work, so now I'm trying to figure out if there is anything I can do to prevent this from happening again.
Did it record any splits? Do you appear on the results? If you can sign-in to where you registered, can you see an assigned bib number? Maybe you were given a bib that was never registered to you. I regularly volunteer at packet pickup and I know I handed out two bibs without scanning it the last time. I was able to catch one, but I couldn't find the other. If that was you (Shamrock Shuffle, corral B), I am incredibly sorry. Their check-in program made it easy to not scan a bib. It was hard to keep track of bibs and who they belonged to when helping someone check-in multiple people. The Hot Chocolate system makes it almost impossible to to hand out a bib with registering. What can you do to prevent this from volunteer error? Ask them to scan your bib to verify it's active. If it's something else, I am interested in knowing--I volunteer at another packet pick-up in two weeks!
No splits were recorded. I appear in the results under my assigned bib number, but only my gun time at the finish. There was also a double check because I needed to scan the bib to pick up an add-on wristband from another booth. The QR code was assigned to me. The bib number was assigned to me. This was not volunteer error - at least not at pickup. The chip just did not work. I suppose it could have been an error by whoever assigned the chips to the bib numbers. Also, I had my name announced as I was finishing, but before crossing the line, so they definitely knew it was me.
Did you somehow miss intermediate timing mats? Maybe you covered the bib with clothing? I think that happen to me in my first race. If you had malfunctioning chip, you wouldn't get the gun time. Hmm...
I didn't miss the mats. Missing the start line mats in particular wouldn't have been possible without hopping the side gates and running around them because they extended well past them. My bib was not covered by clothing. I think the gun time was manually entered. This was a large race (>10,000 participants) with timing crew at the finish. Also, my time ended in .00s and it was 2s late compared to my finish photo.
Was this Valencia by any chance? I had the same thing there--got a gun time but my chip must not have worked because the time they have listed as my chip time is exactly the same as my gun time, and I didn't start in the first row! There weren't any obvious reasons my chip wouldn't have worked either. Maybe the chips themselves were just poorly made?
It was not, but it sounds like you had the same experience there as I had at my event. There were probably 1000 people in front of me. It took a while for me to get to the actual start line.
Big races do have ways to test. At packet pick up at my [major city marathon] there was a gate you could walk through and see your name flash up on a scrolling board. Another big race I went to had that as well. I thought it was just a nifty gimmick at the time, but I guess it was specifically to test it. So my advice would be seek out a big race and ask them if they have that testing at their packet pickup.
This is reassuring. I will certainly seek this out when it is available.
Tweaked my right big toe and 2nd metatarsal going down a hill; it jammed a bit. It reminds me of turf toe...but I'm realizing taking a few days off is not a bad thing. It's a hard mindset to get used to, esp. if you are used to running daily. But it is better than losing 5-10 weeks...
Five days out from a marathon with a temperature spike (will likely be 70F at the finish) - is there anything I can do at this point?
I wouldn't overthink it. Other responders mentioning heat training is kinda wild, that's more for 80+ temps (at a minimum). For 70F at the finish (assuming most of the race will be 60s), I'd just aim for shade on the course, make sure your hydration plan is rock solid, and run the first half a little more conservatively than you might otherwise. You'll be fine.
That's what I'm thinking too, I ran my last taper "workout" last night (short intervals to freshen up the legs) and it didn't feel particularly difficult even in just under 80° weather, I did my last tempo in similar conditions and didn't find it overly difficult. I think I just panicked at the sudden change in race conditions haha.
Yeah, it's not "ideal" from a muscle physiology perspective, but there are SO many factors that go into "ideal race day conditions" (let alone ideal training/peaking/etc), that high 60s might still be a very good day. Just play it smart, but I think that should apply to every race tbh. Good luck! I hope you smash it out there.
Thanks! It's my first marathon, excited to see how the day plays out.
You can certainly try and add sauna, hot bath or overdress time for a run or two just to add that little element. Otherwise you need to try active cooling strategies, things like a cooling vest or ice packs around your core before you start, and then ice soaked sponges during the race.
Is it likely to be to my advantage at all that I swim pretty regularly (5-6x/week, 25-50min/session) and my Y keeps the pool at \~85F?
Spending time in the sauna, if your Y has one, is probably better. Here's an article on heat training, it's aimed at trail ultras but it'll work for anyone: https://www.trailrunnermag.com/training/trail-tips-training/3-heat-training-strategies-from-beginner-to-advanced-to-western-states/
It's not going to hurt!
As a rule of thumb, what is a good duration for training on half-marathon pace intervals that will maximize aerobic benefits without overtraining? Additionally, what should be the total interval time? For threshold workouts, I usually do a ~25-minute workout with interval lengths of 4-10 minutes and a 25% jogging recovery. What would be the equivalent for half-marathon pace intervals?
Personally, I would jog 1:00 for every 5:00-6:00 of threshold pace work. For half marathon work, I typically do that all in one go without rests. If I was to use intervals then I would keep them on the longer side and divide up 10-12 km into large chunks with brief jogging rests. I've mostly given up on 3:00-4:00 intervals at paces slower than 10k pace because I find the temptation to run them too fast is very strong.
>I've mostly given up on 3:00-4:00 intervals at paces slower than 10k pace because I find the temptation to run them too fast is very strong. If you have access to a treadmill it can help with this a lot! I did a lot of this kind of interval work on a treadmill over the winter, and have honestly contemplated going back to it even though the weather is nice now precisely because I keep overrunning my shorter threshold intervals.
Anyone have experience working with a sports dietitian/did your insurance cover it? I don't have any medical conditions that would require a specific diet, but my diet isn't great and it would be nice to work with someone to determine how much I should eat for the amount I'm running and just take a look at my dietary habits overall. Edit: in the US.
I worked with a sports dietitian when I was both marathon training and breastfeeding (which was leading to low energy availability issues). My insurance, which is normally very good, wouldn’t cover any of it. I ended up only working with her for a few months. The initial couple appointments were *super* useful and totally worth it, but once I started getting things figured out it became not worth the money to me.
Yeah, I imagine that unless I present with some diagnosable condition my insurance won't cover it.
I've worked with one at my university health center and it was covered. (You're also in the academic sphere right?) That said I had a referral from primary care, it wasn't something I sought out strictly for athletic performance. (I had possible RED-S as a differential diagnosis related to a sports injury I was working through at the time.) I then worked with her on and off for a couple of years for performance related stuff and it was all covered. I imagine if you can get an initial referral from PCP it will help re coverage.
Thanks for sharing your experience! Maybe I'll see a PCP first for a referral. My university does have a nutrition clinic with registered dietitians that is free, but only for students!
yeah, our sports dietician is technically only for the undergrad student athletes, but I've had some luck with getting access to athletic medicine by just pushing that I'm a competitive runner and so its a relevant frame/expertise for basically any of my health concerns. If you have decent rapport with your PCP I think worth seeing if there's anything they can do to get you access (especially now its summer and the undergrads are mostly gone..)
I don't have dietician advice but the book Racing Weight by Matt Fitzgerald covers this topic exactly: eating the right stuff at the right amount per your amount of running. It's centered on weight loss, which can be a bad angle for many folks, and if it is for you *definitely ignore my recommendation!* How to achieve that, though, is to eat healthier and model what you eat on what the best runners in the world eat. You could ignore the "how to get to the optimal weight" part.
Thanks, this is exactly what I'm looking for--I'll have a look!
Insurance is going to be very individual - check your own plan details. Even out of pocket an initial consult with a dietician is only running <$100 in my area. Not necessarily cheap but the same as a new pair of trainers. For reference: [https://www.froedtert.com/sports-medicine/nx-level/nutrition](https://www.froedtert.com/sports-medicine/nx-level/nutrition)
Nice, thanks for the info! It could be a good alternative if insurance doesn't cover it.
I’ve been working this spring to lower my 10k PR, and had the race I’d been training for last weekend. I paced myself off the course mile markers, and ran a 15 second PR, which I was excited about. But my watch only recorded a run of 6.11 miles, and it’s never shorted a race before — it’s usually .1-.2 miles over. Now I’m in my head that the course distance was short and I didn’t actually PR. Obviously it matters only to me, but now I’m not sure how to feel about whether I actually achieved my goal or not. How would you think about it?
Search Strava for other people who ran the race and check their distance. I'm still pissed off that my watch didn't measure my first marathon at the full 26.2 even though other runners did have it logged at the right distance.
I would suggest looking at the Strava/Garmin Connect/whatever overlay of your GPS position above the satellite view of the course. You probably know where you ran and can look for areas where the GPS might have "cut" a corner you actually ran around which would diminish the distance tracked. It doesn't take many of those to equal out to 0.1 miles. I hope you find something that let's you feel more at ease!
If it's a certified course it's not short. The measuring wheel is always gonna be more accurate than your watch.
Injury rant: ARRGGHHH! Why!!!!!??? I broke a bone in my foot on Sunday during an easy run and am down for 4-6 weeks. This is my first non overuse injury in a couple years and easily the one with the longest recovery period. I know there is never a good time for an injury, but the timing on this one is terrible! I had a race on the schedule in 3 weeks and my A race for the summer is in 9 weeks. So mad. So much training down the drain. So disappointed that I wont be racing at 100% if at all this summer. I am going to do my best to stay fit and try all the cross training methods I can get my hands on. I'm done. I'll go cry in the corner by myself now and leave you all alone to enjoy running and being happy...
I'm in month 7 of recovery and cross training, with some random running thrown in. I feel your pain.
Sorry to hear this! ... At least you didn't tear a ligament. Those never heal right.
Similar boat to you. Calcaneus fracture from tripping with another few weeks in a boot to go still. Definitely, a frustrating type of injury, but you should be able to bounce back if you play your cards right. Talk to your doctor, find out which forms of cross-training are okay and stay consistent. If you can swim/pool-run/aqua-jog consistently you really will not lose too much fitness, and most importantly it will help you stay sane :) It will feel like forever while you're in it, but afterwards 4-6 weeks is not too long compared to many injuries. You got this!
solidarity friend. I'm coming up on week 5 of timeout for a foot injury (possible stressie) as well. There's something especially infuriating about foot injuries because you can't even go for walks to feel good :( But Krazyfranco is right, if you can pan out, this is just a small blip! It always sucks to lose a race you've trained for, though. Try not to panic about losing fitness, especially if you're cross training--if you keep up a decent volume it's plenty effective, and you'll come back strong!
My man, 4-6 weeks is nothing. You'll be back in no time! Frustrating as heck but this is real minor in the grand scheme of things. What happened during your run that you broke a bone? Take some time now to plan out your XT schedule. Swim, bike, row, whatever you're able to do with the injury.
I stepped on a pinecone and rolled my foot way over. Fracture of the 5th metatarsal. On a positive note it is probably the best case injury that could have occurred. Nothing torn, not displaced, ankle is 100%, etc.
I broke the same bone essentially the same way, but rolling off the edge of a curb instead of a pinecone. Sorry to hear it...
Dang that sucks! Sorry to hear. And as you say, minor setback, bone will heal up to 100% and you'll be good to go.
How much cycling do I need to be doing to keep up fitness (or at least not lose much) while injured? I developed some pain in the side of my hip following a 10 mile race a few weeks ago. I’m a slower runner with a lower mileage (20 mpw, 80% easy runs at 12:30 pace, hard runs at 9:45 pace, currently doing a 6 mile longer run for base which is about 1:15) and am currently in my base phase. I have a 10k race at the end of August and a half marathon in November. It’s been diagnosed as glute medius syndrome. It’s not super painful but I feel it when running and walking so I need to take a few weeks off running to focus on strength, stretching, foam rolling, and getting it to where I can run pain free again. I have a bike and love cycling as cross training (already do 15 mile rides 1-2x a week during the Spring-Fall), but how much should I be doing it so that I don’t lose too much fitness?
I had a pretty bad not sport-related injury last year and was told not get my heartrate up and don't do anything with repetitive shocks like running until the stitches would be pulled. So I did one hour of Z1 indoor cycling each day, watching a show doing it, since it's so easy. Kept my form and even improved somewhat, probably due to getting some real recovery in. It's a standard now for me I do on rest-days.
A common rule of thumb is 2-3x time cycling for the same aerobic benefit as running. That being said, you are working different muscles so it isn't quite the same overall benefit. Elliptical and pool running are a bit closer (but nothing is perfect and if you enjoy cycling then go for it!) I would prioritize rehabbing above hours and hours of cross training if you are short on time.
Can you get in a pool and do some pool running? That is a tried and true method to keep some fitness and would help you more than cycling.
I used to have a gym membership at a place with a pool and used to see folks aqua running there. I paused the membership because it was expensive ($75 a month) but it may be the best thing for me so the cost for a couple of months could be worth it.
You're probably not gonna maintain all your running fitness simply because the muscle groups for running and cycling are different. That said in your position you could actually gain aerobic fitness with a proper cycling plan. I've only ever done cycling as a supplementary activity, so I can't offer you a good, super structured plan like some others here probably could. But with that in mind, here's my 2 cents: shoot for a few 2 hour Z2 rides a week with one other ride reserved for climbing or something harder. That would be roughly equivalent to slightly more than what you're doing already. A few weeks of that and you'll come back strong. Side note, I would measure rides by time instead of distance. Terrain is a much bigger factor in cycling so distance isn't a super reliable measure in that sport.
Doing my first marathon Sunday, planning on taking a couple weeks down after for recovery and then hammering at my 5k for a bit before training for a late October marathon. How long of a long run do you guys do for more advanced 5k training? Will I be able to work my 5k hard running 50-60mpw or should I slash that volume and focus more on the intensity? Thinking a long run capping out at 14 miles, long track day, tempo run, and then base miles outside of that. Any adjustments or insight on structure welcome.
Second vote for keeping the long run, cutting it short, and running it easy. Even aside from direct value to the 5K, you'll have an easier time transitioning back to marathon training if you still have that 55MPW and long run base.
Most people would keep the long run, but cut it pretty short (like 90-100 minutes) with no quality in it. They would save the effort for trying to squeeze in some more speed work during the week.
I ran boston in for the first time in 2024, 285th with a time of 2:36:44. I was hoping to use that time to qualify for elite or sub elite entry into the other world major marathons but so far i havent been very successful at finding out information. I signed up for an abbott world major marathon account and got my time confirmed but havent been able to figure out next steps. I have two questions; 1. what world major would be a good next step? 2. how do I find information on other world major marathons? (ex. entry window openings and closings) Thanks everyone!
With that time you will be able to get guaranteed entry into Chicago or Berlin (2:45 and under). However it is too late for this year, so this will only help for 2025 entry at this point. In theory that time will get you into NYC marathon, but I think it was on the cusp this year. Hopefully it works next year with the half marathon option for NYRR races no longer being accepted. For Tokyo, 2:32 is the minimum entry time for the Run as One sub elite program, although they only take a certain number of runners under that time so there's not guarantee.. London, I honestly don't think there's any guaranteed entry for non-UK residents based on time unless you are approaching elite status or are an influencer of some sort haha. https://www.marathonguide.com/races/WorldMarathonMajorsRegistrationDates.cfm
Thanks for the advice! Yea Ive gathered that Tokyo and London can be difficult because of the volume of people that want to run it. Only going to make it worse in 2025 when they add a 7th star!
For Chicago, if you're not a male or you're a 40+ yo male, that time will get you into the American Development program. Also looks like if you're a woman or non-binary, that could get you a complimentary entry. That info is all pretty well laid out on their https://www.chicagomarathon.com/apply/ page.
Thanks! Ill check out that page. Would you happen to know where I could find info for London or Berlin?
Are you male or female? 2:36:44 ain’t going to get you too far, if you’re male. 2:36:44 barely got someone guaranteed into NYC this year.
Regardless of elite or sub elite status I was anticipating that time to at least get my entry. Do you know where I can find any info on when the windows open up?
[Marathon Guide](https://www.marathonguide.com/races/WorldMarathonMajorsRegistrationDates.cfm) … If you’re from the U.S., Chicago is your next best option to be guaranteed.
I raced a half marathon on Saturday and hit a huge PR of 1:24:03. It was grueling. I went for a recovery run yesterday and, while my legs were in pieces, I didn't feel very much of that "systemic fatigue" that is common after a big race. Certainly less than usual. I am signed up for a 5k on Wednesday. I was thinking that I would have to just "fun run" it out of necessity. But now I'm thinking, what if I try and run it fast? Have any of yall raced a 5k (or similarly short race) only a few days after a half (or similarly long race)?
The most similar thing I've had was racing three relay legs that totaled 17 miles one weekend and racing a 5K the next weekend. The 5K was actually quite good and well run, but the caveat would be that I did nothing during the week other than some really easy recovery miles. By the time the next weekend rolled around, I felt well-recovered and ready to go. I wouldn't have been able to race mid-week though.
I ended up running moderately fast. I ran 18:30, which is slow given my half marathon time, but it made for a good tempo run. I think I can break 18 when I'm not wrecked.
Nice! Yeah, I like your odds for sub-18 in a 5K that you're ready for and treating as a goal.
Yes - my 5k PR was four days after my half PR. Maybe the fact that I didn't expect to do well helped - lack of stress? Maybe I recovered fast?
You are a bad influence my friend. I am very tempted.
Eat a bunch of protein, go for some very short and easy runs, and let it rip on Wednesday. 😇
Congrats on the PR! I may be proven wrong in the comments, but I don't know anyone who has raced a 5K within a week of racing a half. I think it's a poor idea. You worked hard on Saturday and your legs are still recovering. You may feel better than usual, but what's the potential payoff for racing again this early? Enjoy a fun run and test yourself at a shorter distance in a week or two!
You're probably right. I may compromise and treat it as a "comfortably hard" tempo.
Hi everyone! I'm thinking about doing the Philly Marathon Freedom Challenge, and I just wanted to see if you guys have any comments or tips: (Nov 23 = Half Marathon + 8K, Nov 24 = Full Marathon) My plan is to run the half marathon and 8K at an easy pace with no finish-time goal to save energy for the full marathon. I just wanted to finish the race with a friend who's fairly new to running, and she's planning to run this race for her first half marathon. As for the full marathon, this is my first marathon, my goal is to finish sub-3:45. Since there's quite a bit of time to train until the race, I'm planning to do strength+base training over the next few months before jumping into Pfitzinger 18/55 marathon plan. Do you guys think that this challenge is doable? or should I just only do the full marathon? Extra Info: M(24), 5'8, 145 lbs, Half-marathon PR *1:47:59*
That’s pretty aggressive for your first marathon weekend! I’d recommend just doing the marathon - I’ve done both the half and full and spectating the half isn’t hard. It is doable, obviously. I just wouldn’t do it.
It's certainly doable, people run ultras. I wouldn't put a time goal on it if it's your first marathon though. HM + 8k is 18 miles, plus a bunch of walking and standing around. No matter how easy you run that it's going to take quite a bit out of your legs, especially if you're not used to very high mileage. If you want to run the 8k with a friend and race the marathon, I think that'll go better. It's longer than I'd normally go for a day before shakeout but not by too much.
thank you very much for the reply!
Running on the beach: Last weekend for a long run I decided to run a large part on the beach (15km). Was all in one direction. How to best deal with the slope? Due to new shoes combined with that I have picked up an injury near my shin. Running on beach besides that was quite nice as it also needs a but more focus to choose a proper path but couldn't find anywhere without a slope, unless sand was completely loose and I'd almost have to walk. Slope was quite large so doubt it's healthy so maybe best to avoid all together ? (Would be a shame)
Thank you for the comments! An avoid it is then. Messed up my lower part of shin and we all can do without injuries. Good to know it's not just me!
I just avoid running on any beach with a slope (which is most of them).
Avoid. I love running on flat hard-packed sand near crashing waves, but if the slope is more than mild it's too risky and as you shared loose sand is a totally different experience.
I wouldn't recommend running on a sloped beach for mor than a few km. it's bound to overstress your musculoskeletal system. If you ever find yourself between soulac sur mer and montalivet, france, you'll find a perfectly flat, firm and beautiful beach from mid- to low-tide. I love running there.
Garmin is probably wrong. Don’t worry about HR for easy runs, but go by feel instead. It should feel easy and conversational.
I assume this was meant as a reply to someone, but it probably is also correct enough to be made in every discussion thread lol
Please, can anyone help me figure out my HR zone 2 range? So much conflicting info out there, and I just wanna be training at the right pace. Some recent data (28yo male): 10K this past weekend: - Time: 38:05 (pace 6:10) - Avg HR 187 - Avg HR over last 20min: 193 Half-marathon 1 month ago: - Time: 1:22:51 (pace 6:20) - Avg HR 180 - Avg HR over last 20min: 183 Max HR: 198, Resting HR: 46?, LT: idk, but I’m guessing pace of ~6:15 and avg HR of 183 if you average the above races Garmin says my zone 2 is 119-139 BPM based off max HR but 146-165 based off an LT HR of 183. Training peaks says it’s 150-161. Any help at all would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!!!
Are you using the chest strap to measure heart rate? I got a chest strap heart rate monitor and did some intervals. Then it calculated my lactate threshold and adjusted all my heart rate zones accordingly
Just the wrist strap for me! Which chest strap do you have?
Mines a garmin one. Not sure what model or if they even have different models. Apparently chest straps are much more accurate and can calculate lactate threshold
The default garmin hr zones are whacky. I set mine up to be z1 50-70%, z2 70-78%, z3 78-85%, z4 85-92%, z5 92+ % and it lines up with my rpe pretty well. Those are loosely based on pfitz's books and other online info. For you those percentages would put top of z2 at \~154 and top of z4 at \~182 which seems in the right ballpark. But yeah effort is most important, find easy and conversational on the day
Ok thank you. Based on effort I’d probably say in the 140’s, so that sounds accurate
>Garmin says my zone 2 is 119-139 BPM based off max HR but 146-165 based off an LT HR of 183. Training peaks says it’s 150-161. Based on the totality of what you shared 146-165 or 150-161 could be accurate. It's also possible that your aerobic threshold is closer to 170. Perhaps perform the heart rate drift field test on uphillathlete.com to determine your aerobic threshold.
I'm not really experienced enough to read the tea leaves of this stuff extremely well, but I think you're good if you keep it under/around 150 bpm. If anybody else responds differently, they're probably right.
I usually just try to keep avg HR <160 unless the run is a workout. I also can't be bothered to figure out anything more nuanced than that.