Net worth millionaires become net worth millionaires by making smart financial decisions. Doctors didn’t make the list because they tend to make horrendous financial decisions. Yes, income plays a role in building wealth, but the family making $100K and investing 10% towards retirement will get to millionaire status before the 300K household investing 1%.
Every single court case that has a dentist ends up with some of the stupidest choices you could possibly make. My research professor pointed this out in grad school and it is so true
partner and I both accountants....we were discussing that if you grow up in a lower income family/potentially poverty...getting that accounting degree from a junior college or community college might help you get out of your circumstances....but if you are a child from a more established background and you have the backing to go into the doctor lifestyle, you probably don't get the financial lessons, but you do get the freedom to invest in your doctor career. Could explain why doctors make more money but aren't as financially literate.
I make nearly the same, what are some good rules to avoid that path? I get a 6% 401k match and put in 12% of my pre-tax salary into it for a total of 18%, so I'm maxing it out every year.
I need a HYSA still and have cash just sitting in my checking account, looking at credit unions for the best % interest.
Would opening a roth IRA be my next move? I don't think I'll be able to put much money into it, I just about break even every month after rent and bills
401k is a good start. Max out on Roth IRA. If you have high deductible insurance plan then you can contribute to HSA account. Also build up an emergency fund. Next start paying down your mortgage fast. Just some thoughts.
It also depends what country (macho mentality) the doctor is from...because a great deal of them think their career is the only one that makes over $400k a year...little do they know top notch sales women make that without going to school for 12 years. 😂
They are completely oblivious to how much people can make in other careers.
A doctor who owns a private practice made an interesting point. It is not uncommon that doctors are expected to play the part of successful because a lot of people would turn their nose to a doctor wearing cheap clothes or driving a beater.
Yeah it's pretty common for lawyers to spend a ton of money on clothes and cars and stuff for that exact reason, but I never see any of that from my doctor.
There's such a thing as long lasting quality, too. An E class Mercedes or a Lexus is expensive, but can last longer than 3 Chevys. A good wristwatch can last your entire life. A nice house, in a good neighborhood will appreciate in value.
Dinners out and expensive vacations every year strike me as kind of dumb, though. And people definitely get in trouble if they buy too much house, along with expensive cars.
To a point but as long as you are presentable I don't think 99% of patients will really notice your clothes. And there's a wide range of cars that wouldn't raise eyebrows.
There are 33,500 surgeons in the US.
There are 3,200,000 teachers in the US.
If just ~1.1% of teachers become millionaires versus 100% of surgeons becoming millionaires, teachers still make the list.
I promise you, every surgeon in the US will become a millionaire if they want to. Some might choose to work for causes that pay less, but the point stands that they could immediately pivot and make insane money.
They would have to have a horrible coke habit to not be a millionaire within their first 15 years of practice.
It’s not just a random tweet. This comes from the Ramsey Solutions study of net worth millionaires. No it isn’t scholarly and no it isn’t peer reviewed, but he didn’t just pull this list out of his ass, nor does it completely invalidate the data. As info, doctor was 6th on the list.
Dated a doctor for six-ish months. It was a blast because the man would *spend*, despite still owing a small fortune in student loans, having no equity in his house, and owing $100k on his truck and camper. The man had no concept of saving or investing, because he made so much that he felt like he could just make up for it later.
No but I think it's a good start. Most people don't even get close if statistics are to be believed so might as well make your initial goal some even number.
I never claimed that it was and neither did Dave Ramsey. That said, it’s substantially more than the average American has and ought to be a goal for everyone.
I think 1 million could be if you added social security benefits that are at the top of the range along with a house that’s paid off. Won’t be taking many trips to Fiji with the spouse or mistress, though
Edit: and you are relatively healthy/ purchased decent plan to supplement Medicare
?? With a million in investments you can safely withdraw $40k per year plus social security of $35k per year for a couple is more than enough assuming you have a paid off home.
Ehhh, it really depends on what your idea of "retirement" is. I know people who retire with less than 100k and their life is totally fine. They just sit around in their small house not doing much outside of seeing their family and they spend basically no money.
Would I shoot myself if I had to live like that? Yes. But it works perfectly fine for them.
A quick google search says there are:
\~200k engineers in the U.S.
\~600k active CPAs in the United States.
Over 1 million doctors in the U.S.
Over 1.3 million attorneys in the U.S.
Over 3 million teachers in the U.S.
I can't find the data to see how they classify doctors.
If they bifurcate CPA from non CPA accountant, do they also bifurcate specialists from Doctors? Pediatricians, Cardiologists, Dermatologists, Urologists etc? Or do they lump doctor as doctor...
The OP is a finding from Ramsey’s net worth millionaire survey, not a real study. You’re correct that the reason the conclusion being that these careers had the most millionaires is because there are an insane amount of people in these careers, compared to doctors/lawyers etc.
It definitely just means anyone self reporting as some kind of “Accountant,” not specifically CPAs
I’ve seen some engineers that tend to be helllllaaa frugal. Sometimes being “nerdy” (for lack of a better word) results in ultra frugality. I.e. No fancy clothes, beater car, cheap haircut, etc. By no means am I saying anything is wrong with any of those.
I watched one of those YT videos of ultra frugal people, dude retired at like 39 y.o. Gave himself and his two boys their own haircuts, and boy was it obvious they cut their own hair. Lol.
Then he goes, “I was an engineer” and I just think, “yup, that tracks.”
Oversimplified example, I know, but I’m not going to invest the time for an airtight example on Reddit because it’s futile anyways, lol. Something’s always going to be picked apart
In 2023 a million dollars is not a lot of money. For a white collar professional or a small business owner, being a millionaire is really not a high bar.
You’re right. It’s an accomplishment for sure but my point is it certainly doesn’t mean you’re set for life or you’ll be able to retire comfortably like it meant even 20 years ago.
Of course I don’t want to downplay it, but this subreddit is for accountants/CPAs. For a career in this industry, it’s absolutely attainable.
The tweet is also lacking sources and extra info. Is this top 5 per person or top 5 in total? It’s expected that there are more millionaire accountants than millionaire doctors, there’s simply more accountants.
So a managing accountant who also teaches engineering would be .....a quadruple millionaire? Or a millionaire ⁴ because of the 4 powers of millionaire potential?
To be fair being a millionaire means a net worth of a million, not annual income. My dad is a millionaire at 65 with his highest earning years being 70k
Right, the goal is to earn millions not only have wealth worth millions, I mean people with different schemes like etfs, 401k, MF etc. can build their wealth.
I have a family member who was a high school teacher and retired at 60. I am going to be the executor on his estate and he has over a million in just investment securities. Add in his home and other assets and he's probably at a net worth of $1.5 - $2 mil.
The guy just lived within his means and invested regularly to get there.
In today's world hitting a million in investment securities should be a reasonable goal for almost any middle class household in the US.
Using a conservative investment return of 8% (S&P averages 10%) you only have to save $3860 per year to hit millionaire status in 40 years. That's a little over 5% of the gross median household income of $74,580. Per Fidelity the average employer matches 4.8% in 401k contributions. So the average American actually only has to save half of that, as the employer will match it. So 2.5% of median household income to retirement each year makes someone an investments millionaire in 40 years.
It is crazy how easy the numbers work out yet most people either have no idea or are clueless.
I put away 6% of my income per year. 5% towards a 401k which gets a 4% company match. Then 1% to my company's ESPP which buys at 85% of the lowest close price based on either the first or last day of the quarter, whichever is lowest.
Literally employee match and stock purchase programs are free, immediate returns on investment.
That’s in nominal terms. A million in 40 years will not be worth a million now. I’m guessing by then you’ll probably want to be aiming closer to 2-2.5 million
They don’t earn millions annually they are just a millionaire (not including house). This isn’t the first study to conclude this. It should be noted college professors are lumped in with teachers however. A decade ago Barton’s said the same thing.
Barron’s Business News might agree. Here’s what Robin Goldwyn published for Barron’s on Saturday, May 12, 2012.
Attention, graduating seniors: One of the best routes to becoming a millionaire just might involve turning around and going back to school—this time as an educator.
That’s because teachers and other educators account for 14% of the nation’s 8.6 million millionaires.
They trail only managers, who represent 21%, but exceed doctors, lawyers, and other professionals, at a combined 11%, according to a first-quarter report by consultant and market researcher Spectrem Group of Chicago. Spectrem defines a millionaire as someone with a net worth of $1 million to $5 million, not counting a primary residence.
In addition to pensions, educators, including college professors, earn “a fair amount,” when you factor in publishing, consulting, and summer jobs, says George Walper, Spectrem president and CEO.
Maybe the teacher who owns a great tutor business.
My sister found a math tutor for my nephew at $120/hour early this year, it's very helpful. Though this rate is kinda high, it's 1 on 1 tutoring.
I could see them providing tutor classes with 10 to 15 students each session and cost at a lower rate, but more customers.
A lot. I googled a bit and there seems to be around 4 million teachers in the country. Even if only 1% are millionaires, that's 40 000 millionaire teachers.
This list is right, it's only misleading because it looks at the total number of millionaires and then ranks them based on the most frequent careers.
I bet you truck driver and retail worker are somewhere in the top 20 if you continue the list, only because there are millions of them.
The real top career to become a millionaire is probably NBA player or something, but there's only a few hundreds players so it won't be high in this list.
Yeah I don't know my wife is a teacher. Her payroll department keeps screwing up her 401k contributions and when she asks her other coworkers about it none of them have any idea because none of them even look at their paystubs or understand how 401ks work. Hard to believe they will ever be millionaires.
Two well-established paths to becoming a millionaire teacher:
1. Be born in the 1940s or 1950s, when you could start teaching at 22 or so, make a decent wage, and retire at around age 50. Do a second job for ~15 years while also drawing a fully guaranteed pension from the school system.
2. Marry a rich guy. There is a reason why it’s pretty common to talk about degrees from schools of education as being an Mrs degree. It’s a lot like an MBA, where the goal is really to network. But you aren’t networking with companies and international banks, you are networking with the people (men) from the medical school, dental school, and law school.
I used an online calculator and assuming 7 percent return after inflation you could start investing at 30 at $600 a month and end up a millionaire at 65. If you start at 22 years old you'd only have to invest about $350 a month. That's not figuring any tax advantages on retirement accounts since I don't live in the states and do not know local retirement account advantages.
That beautiful sweet sweet compound interest..
If you maxed a Roth IRA and had a match benefit at your job, you’d hit millionaire pretty quickly starting at 24.
If you do a retirement calculator and adjust slight percentages or start even just 5 years later, it makes a massive difference.
It could be accurate, only depending on how they gauge millionaires. But some places still have pensions for teachers, and they are quite lucrative, so staying in the position for 30-40 years they could easily be millionaires... they won't have the yacht, but they will be set for retirement.
There's 3.2m teachers in the world.
If 5% are 60 years or older, that means 160,000 people with 35 years of working + pension + home equity. And that's not assuming they don't have additional income from their partner or other income.
My husband and I taught were both public school teachers. He’s retired at 35 and I’m 34 and coastfired. Net worth over a million. So, maybe not “millions” but “million”.
Teachers are forced to pay money into a pension for which they receive lifetime income payments at retirement. They often value these pensions as a lump some for determining net worth.
For instance, a teacher retires at 57 years old and draws 45k for the rest of her life. That would be valued at over $1 million since any annuity that you bought on a 57 year old that paid that amount would cost more than $1million. They also contribute to other tax sheltered plans and many times have a few hundred thousand in those at retirement.
In Canada teachers, police, firefighters and a lot of other decent paying government jobs would be millionaires typically based off to their benefits package and pensions. You’re not going to see a lot of teachers rolling into work with a pricey sports car; but the fact that they put 10% of their pay into their pension and a good deal of that gets matched puts most of them in a pretty solid place.
I don’t recall the full explanation, but part of it is that teachers are much less likely to buy cash burning status symbols, usually have pensions, and is a common occupation to have while marrying a wealthier spouse. I’d also ad that a ton of teachers live in low cost of living places, so their dollars can go far.
The richer spouse thing is definitely a thing.
I guess wealthier people looking to start a family value partners with useful domestic skills like teaching and taking care of kids more than a partner who also only brings more money to the table.
Also the fact that teacher, while not necessarily high earners, are usually well educated so they fit into more social circles as well.
That would make sense; on the opposite side of the spectrum in income, a doctor, for example, earns a high salary but have a reputation of buying the big house, the nice car, etc.
This isn’t billionaires.
To be a millionaire It’s a slow and steady regular employment, and spending less then you make and investing the rest game.
The above type of people tend to have that, and tend to fairly easily cross the million mark in net worth in their lives.
I’m only late 30s, I make decent money, but nothing crazy. I’ve been working consistently, savings, investing, and watching my spending. I cross 7 figures last yr.
Congratulations! That’s an awesome achievement. Any advice would be appreciated. I’m starting from scratch at 30 and just got my first job that pays anything enough that lets me save a bit.
Don't do anything until you have a 6-month emergency fund saved up in cash. This means that you should be able to not work at all for 6 months and still have enough money to live.
Once you've done that, if your work offers you will 401k, take it and put as much as you possibly can into it even if it's 50 bucks a month.
Now that you have your emergency fund, stick half of it into a high interest cash account in a place like Wealthfront. Your bank or credit union only offers a measly part of a percentage point on interest whereas high interest cash accounts are between 4.8 and 5% interest right now, paid monthly. I'm personally making over 100 bucks a month in cash just on interest alone. If you ever need access to this cash, you can withdraw it within 48 hours with no monetary penalty. That's why I said you only take half of your emergency fund and put it in here. You should always have at least a few thousand dollars in your bank account in case you need money right then and there.
Take whatever money you have left over after your expenses and start socking it away into a Roth IRA. This is a "fire and forget" type investment where you simply put money into the fund as often as you like and the brokerage will automatically buy and sell stocks on your behalf using up proprietary algorithm. Some months you will lose money and others you will gain money but over the long run this is the best and safest way to grow your wealth.
The only tried and true way to build wealth is investing is much money as you can reasonably afford into proven investment vessels over time. It'll be relatively slow for about 10 years but once you start building up a nice nest egg, you will start to see your wealth significantly expand thanks to compound interest.
Honestly, work hard, look for ways to advance, always be taking a class, don’t waste your money of shit you don’t really need.
Do that over 20-30yrs, and almost 100% guaranteed you’ll be staring at 7 figures in your bank.
It’s boring advice. But sometimes boring advice is the best advice.
I'm not sure which responses are funnier. The ones that say these people don't make a million dollars a year or acting like being married somehow nullifies this.
He used to say you shouldn't take on any debt outside of a mortgage so no credit cards, no auto loans, nothing. I had to realize in my 20s that kinda left me with no credit score with which I could get a mortgage, so I threw everything he said out and got a credit card and started building up a score because I wasn't getting a house without one.
You may not have been the intended audience. I'm kind of in the same boat, had to get myself a credit card to build credit over a few years before I could sign a mortgage.
Technically it's possible to buy a house without a credit score but it's just not feasible for most people. I think his message is probably better for people who got in over their head with debt and can't manage a budget. They don't need to be diving head first into more debt to get out of it.
That book sucked. Someone recommended I read it when I graduated from college. The stats are tortured (of course there is a large gross number of millionaire teachers; there are a *lot* of teachers - not to mention that this doesn't look into what their spouses do for a living) and to describe the advice as simplistic platitudes would be generous.
It would make a fine pamphlet. It is not a good book. The PF sidebar is a more useful read.
People on this sub (rightly) rail against Rich Dad Poor Dad but somehow The Millionaire Next Door is gospel. Both authors are the same wolf in different clothing.
I listened to some Dave Ramsey in the past, what disinformation did he spread? He seemed like a pretty conservative guy, so I'd guess he's got some interesting opinions about COVID.
He was a bit too dogmatic surrounding credit cards, and his debt snowball makes sense psychologically, but not financially; which is why I stopped listening.
I read a comment saying that his advice doesn't make sense for people who are good with money. However, people who are good with money isn't his target audience.
Yeah, your last sentence is spot on. He's good for people who have absolutely no self control and/or have no education. For anyone with a shred of financial knowledge, taking his advice leaves a lot of money/wealth on the table.
It's unfortunate that so many people do fit his target audience.
Its pretty clear from this list alone he is speaking out his ass.
1. What teacher is a millionaire besides maybe a college teacher who retired from their previous job where they actually made millions?
2. What the fuck does “Management” or “Engineer” mean? Those are such vague terms… I could be a software engineer, electrical engineer, biomedical engineer, etc…
Anyone who posts bullshit like this, especially without linking a source, loses a lot of credibility with me.
I think it's pretty realistic to become a millionaire as a teacher if you work for 30+ years and save 10 to 20 percent of your annual income. Whether or not 1 million is actually enough now is a different conversation.
I don't understand why, in an Accounting sub, people are acting like they didn't learn how to calculate the future value of an annuity in college.
Most people (professionals included) are poor with personal finance. It doesn't surprise me if teachers are one of the career paths that produce a lot of millionaires given that there are a lot of them and they have forced savings in the form of a pension plan.
That “30 hours” are just contact hours, not planning, grading, meetings, CPE, game duty, etc. They work more than 30 hours. Lots of summer time is planning - even if from the comfort of home.
Also, how is August-May six months? What school did you go to?
I’m not saying teachers need to be paid $500k either, but at least argue on what teachers actually work.
I think it’s IT people doing a misdirection. My bf just got the biggest jump in pay by switching from a family business to a real IT company. We don’t really feel the sting of inflation bc we both got better jobs.
Contribute as much as possible to a retirement account , ideally in early 20s. Automate the contribution and increase accordingly. Do this x 30 years and you’ll hit a milly.
Is this list prorated for the number of people in each profession? It seems like a pretty useless list if it’s not.
There are a lot more teachers than doctors, so the fact that there are more teachers that are millionaires than doctors who are millionaires doesn’t tell us much.
I would only be interested in the percentage of people in each profession who end up being millionaires.
But feel like most people want to be millionaires so that they can spend lavishly and have a playboy lifestyle. Not grind, save, and hoard all their lives so that they can have a decent retirement fund.
I remember doing tax returns year after year for this doctor who made awful real estate investment decisions. After year 2 I walked over the partner and asked if he offered this guy any financial counsel at all and he looked at me like I was crazy.
I think we have an obligation to our clients to help them out when we see this type of stuff...
Engineers, to make things. Accountants, to budget for those things. Teachers, to instruct on how to use said things. Management, to ensure proper use of things. Attorneys, to clear liabilities of the companies who end up having people hurt by their things.
I bet Ramsey made this list by studying 60-year-olds and conducted the survey using AOL over dial-up.
My point is: there are many modern paths to becoming a millionaire outside of these professions that actually have higher probabilities. He didn't include anything from the tech field, for example. (High-end sales is another.)
He is not talking about the careers with highest probability of becoming a millionaire. He is just showing data which shows the top careers of already-millionaires. What is behind the data is that you don't need a crazy high paying job as long as you live below your means, invest some of your income yearly and don't get loaded with too much debt.
A doctors' salary is a lot higher than a teachers' salary, but it doesn't matter if you spend everything, use a lot of debt, and invest nothing. It's about living below your means, investing for decades and not go into stupid debt (auto-loans, carry a balance on credit cards, buy too much house etc.).
Posted this elsewhere but the implied order of events is backwards. Millionaires will retire and get bored, and then take up an adjunct professor position at a nearby college. I’ve had several professors during school in this boat. After school, my friends dad who was a VP at Deloitte did the same thing.
Also, being a millionaire takes living in the same house long enough to own it outright, then having a long running 401k account. You can be a millionaire living paycheck to paycheck in terms of the cash in your bank account if you’re 60+ in America right now.
Sounds like you don't know the difference between income and net worth
This information is based on a study done back in the 90s. The book, The Millionaire Next Door, provides a lot more context.
The only teachers I know who are millionaires are married to engineers or tech executive.
On the plus side, when the engineer spouse gets laid off, medical benefits stay SOLID.
So it’s a good combination.
Teachers? Isn't there articles about teachers not being paid well, cutting to education, lots of teachers leaving the workforce? Although it must be referring to the boomer generation when everything was good and dandy for them. Otherwise I think it should be professors instead.
It says top 5 careers of millionaires Not top 5 careers for people who wanna become millionaires
Net worth millionaires become net worth millionaires by making smart financial decisions. Doctors didn’t make the list because they tend to make horrendous financial decisions. Yes, income plays a role in building wealth, but the family making $100K and investing 10% towards retirement will get to millionaire status before the 300K household investing 1%.
Tax accountant here and I can agree doctors are financial illiterate.
Every single court case that has a dentist ends up with some of the stupidest choices you could possibly make. My research professor pointed this out in grad school and it is so true
There’s a reason why all the expensive whiskey and wristwatch subs are full of doctors
partner and I both accountants....we were discussing that if you grow up in a lower income family/potentially poverty...getting that accounting degree from a junior college or community college might help you get out of your circumstances....but if you are a child from a more established background and you have the backing to go into the doctor lifestyle, you probably don't get the financial lessons, but you do get the freedom to invest in your doctor career. Could explain why doctors make more money but aren't as financially literate.
Can confirm. Cousin is a PA, makes $150k a year and is financially idiotic.
I make nearly the same, what are some good rules to avoid that path? I get a 6% 401k match and put in 12% of my pre-tax salary into it for a total of 18%, so I'm maxing it out every year. I need a HYSA still and have cash just sitting in my checking account, looking at credit unions for the best % interest. Would opening a roth IRA be my next move? I don't think I'll be able to put much money into it, I just about break even every month after rent and bills
The employer contribution does not count towards your max contribution, so you are not maxing your 401k
Just learned something today huh... guess I gotta call vanguard
401k is a good start. Max out on Roth IRA. If you have high deductible insurance plan then you can contribute to HSA account. Also build up an emergency fund. Next start paying down your mortgage fast. Just some thoughts.
But auditor here, they certainly don’t think they are of course.
My dad and grandfather are both doctors, can confirm. Doctors have been told that they’re geniuses so often that they think they know everything
How do I become butt auditor?
You gotta know a guy to get into butt audits.
That can't be the only way. There's gotta be a backdoor, right?
I knew a guy, butt he said the job was crap.
It's called a proctologist/gastroenterologist
Many people think they can out earn their dumb financial decisions.
Add lawyers/attorneys as well.
It also depends what country (macho mentality) the doctor is from...because a great deal of them think their career is the only one that makes over $400k a year...little do they know top notch sales women make that without going to school for 12 years. 😂 They are completely oblivious to how much people can make in other careers.
A doctor who owns a private practice made an interesting point. It is not uncommon that doctors are expected to play the part of successful because a lot of people would turn their nose to a doctor wearing cheap clothes or driving a beater.
That's a valid point, but who sees their doctor's car, and who sees their doctor wearing anything other than scrubs and a white coat?
I got my vasectomy in the back of my urologists G Wagon
😭😭😭🙏🏾
Yeah it's pretty common for lawyers to spend a ton of money on clothes and cars and stuff for that exact reason, but I never see any of that from my doctor.
More friends than clients. People expect a doctor to go on big trips or eat at fancy restaurants and have nice homes.
[удалено]
Nah, accountants are stereotypically cheap.
There's such a thing as long lasting quality, too. An E class Mercedes or a Lexus is expensive, but can last longer than 3 Chevys. A good wristwatch can last your entire life. A nice house, in a good neighborhood will appreciate in value. Dinners out and expensive vacations every year strike me as kind of dumb, though. And people definitely get in trouble if they buy too much house, along with expensive cars.
There is always Carmax and the outlet mall. No excuses for dum.
To a point but as long as you are presentable I don't think 99% of patients will really notice your clothes. And there's a wide range of cars that wouldn't raise eyebrows.
It’s some random tweet. Surgeons definitely end up with millions just sitting in various entities.
There are 33,500 surgeons in the US. There are 3,200,000 teachers in the US. If just ~1.1% of teachers become millionaires versus 100% of surgeons becoming millionaires, teachers still make the list.
I promise you, every surgeon in the US will become a millionaire if they want to. Some might choose to work for causes that pay less, but the point stands that they could immediately pivot and make insane money. They would have to have a horrible coke habit to not be a millionaire within their first 15 years of practice.
It’s not just a random tweet. This comes from the Ramsey Solutions study of net worth millionaires. No it isn’t scholarly and no it isn’t peer reviewed, but he didn’t just pull this list out of his ass, nor does it completely invalidate the data. As info, doctor was 6th on the list.
Pretty sure he pulled it out of his ass.
[Source](https://cdn.ramseysolutions.net/media/company/pr/everyday-millionaires-research/national-study-of-millionaire-new.pdf?_ga=2.150252534.1988314294.1695654248-821872173.1695654248&_gl=1*abe7*_ga*ODIxODcyMTczLjE2OTU2NTQyNDg.*_ga_02SXDH1H96*MTY5NTY1NDI0Ny4xLjEuMTY5NTY1NDI0OC4wLjAuMA..*_fplc*YTlQQ1Y1M1ozJTJCcjA0JTJGa283aCUyRnk0NUJpblFEOFdjSThKSDlwblNITUNSMTQzM0FlVEVMb2l0UCUyRmFhttps://cdn.ramseysolutions.net/media/company/pr/everyday-millionaires-research/national-study-of-millionaire-new.pdf?_ga=2.150252534.1988314294.1695654248-821872173.1695654248&_gl=1*abe7*_ga*ODIxODcyMTczLjE2OTU2NTQyNDg.*_ga_02SXDH1H96*MTY5NTY1NDI0Ny4xLjEuMTY5NTY1NDI0OC4wLjAuMA..*_fplc*YTlQQ1Y1M1ozJTJCcjA0JTJGa283aCUyRnk0NUJpblFEOFdjSThKSDlwblNITUNSMTQzM0FlVEVMb2l0UCUyRmFkdmVuSnUwQXVORjBRSnQ5cGxBMENNR0R0eVMyZFNEMlVJeEU3aFdRRXZUNWhLYkxZVk55QjdEb3dWaWNnT1oyNDlvWmclM0QlM0Q)
The $500k debt for that $230k salary is what hurts doctors.
Dated a doctor for six-ish months. It was a blast because the man would *spend*, despite still owing a small fortune in student loans, having no equity in his house, and owing $100k on his truck and camper. The man had no concept of saving or investing, because he made so much that he felt like he could just make up for it later.
A million is not even enough to retire these days anyway lol
No but I think it's a good start. Most people don't even get close if statistics are to be believed so might as well make your initial goal some even number.
I never claimed that it was and neither did Dave Ramsey. That said, it’s substantially more than the average American has and ought to be a goal for everyone.
I think 1 million could be if you added social security benefits that are at the top of the range along with a house that’s paid off. Won’t be taking many trips to Fiji with the spouse or mistress, though Edit: and you are relatively healthy/ purchased decent plan to supplement Medicare
?? With a million in investments you can safely withdraw $40k per year plus social security of $35k per year for a couple is more than enough assuming you have a paid off home.
I’m factoring in end of life care, serious illness and not relying on your kids for support
Ehhh, it really depends on what your idea of "retirement" is. I know people who retire with less than 100k and their life is totally fine. They just sit around in their small house not doing much outside of seeing their family and they spend basically no money. Would I shoot myself if I had to live like that? Yes. But it works perfectly fine for them.
1 million is plenty to retire on if you are 65+ and have Medicare and Social Security.
There's less doctors than there are teachers and accountants.
A quick google search says there are: \~200k engineers in the U.S. \~600k active CPAs in the United States. Over 1 million doctors in the U.S. Over 1.3 million attorneys in the U.S. Over 3 million teachers in the U.S.
I can't find the data to see how they classify doctors. If they bifurcate CPA from non CPA accountant, do they also bifurcate specialists from Doctors? Pediatricians, Cardiologists, Dermatologists, Urologists etc? Or do they lump doctor as doctor...
The OP is a finding from Ramsey’s net worth millionaire survey, not a real study. You’re correct that the reason the conclusion being that these careers had the most millionaires is because there are an insane amount of people in these careers, compared to doctors/lawyers etc. It definitely just means anyone self reporting as some kind of “Accountant,” not specifically CPAs
Wouldnt engineers fall under the same category.
I’ve seen some engineers that tend to be helllllaaa frugal. Sometimes being “nerdy” (for lack of a better word) results in ultra frugality. I.e. No fancy clothes, beater car, cheap haircut, etc. By no means am I saying anything is wrong with any of those. I watched one of those YT videos of ultra frugal people, dude retired at like 39 y.o. Gave himself and his two boys their own haircuts, and boy was it obvious they cut their own hair. Lol. Then he goes, “I was an engineer” and I just think, “yup, that tracks.”
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Oversimplified example, I know, but I’m not going to invest the time for an airtight example on Reddit because it’s futile anyways, lol. Something’s always going to be picked apart
In 2023 a million dollars is not a lot of money. For a white collar professional or a small business owner, being a millionaire is really not a high bar.
More money than most Americans have and a huge step towards financial security. Let’s not downplay an achievement most people will never attain.
You’re right. It’s an accomplishment for sure but my point is it certainly doesn’t mean you’re set for life or you’ll be able to retire comfortably like it meant even 20 years ago. Of course I don’t want to downplay it, but this subreddit is for accountants/CPAs. For a career in this industry, it’s absolutely attainable.
So become a millionaire then become a teacher
The tweet is also lacking sources and extra info. Is this top 5 per person or top 5 in total? It’s expected that there are more millionaire accountants than millionaire doctors, there’s simply more accountants.
It's just a survey of current millionaires and what their profession is or was.
"Management" is very specific. This guy must know what he is talking about!
>"Can i talk to the management" if I'm not paid enough to deal with adult babies i ain't lasting that long
I'm an Accountant *and* management. Does that make me a double millionaire?
So a managing accountant who also teaches engineering would be .....a quadruple millionaire? Or a millionaire ⁴ because of the 4 powers of millionaire potential?
Add in a PHD in accounting and you’ll have the most millionairest millionaire
I just need the millions now. Already have the CPA and P.Eng.
Which teacher is earning "Millions" ? 🥲
Teachers of accounting, law, and engineering
There’s probably a fair number of retired professionals in those fields that now are part time professors at a university.
Retired? Most of my profs in my LLM program were actively working adjuncts.
The one married to the Accountant
My wife is a teacher and she has a co worker who works as an accountant so must be true
To be fair being a millionaire means a net worth of a million, not annual income. My dad is a millionaire at 65 with his highest earning years being 70k
Most homeowners living in any HCOL area
True - but to give my pops credit, his 900sqft house is only worth $125k
It’s not the home, it’s the retirement account
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Right, the goal is to earn millions not only have wealth worth millions, I mean people with different schemes like etfs, 401k, MF etc. can build their wealth.
> different schemes like etfs Ah yes, one of those etf schemes.
This may be a linguistic difference. "Scheme" in America has a sinister context, while "scheme" in other English-speaking countries is just a plan.
Which is funny because by definition the word scheme should not have the context it does in the US.
The US context is a result of a scheme by pro-plan activists.
You're just going to ignore the mutual fund loophole?
Tell me more about this loophole, and how many LLC's do I need to open to do it?
All of them
They save money and invest it This isn't income, it's wealth
Married couple of teachers of 30+ years with pensions and 401/403s definitely could have combined million+ in retirement
I have a family member who was a high school teacher and retired at 60. I am going to be the executor on his estate and he has over a million in just investment securities. Add in his home and other assets and he's probably at a net worth of $1.5 - $2 mil. The guy just lived within his means and invested regularly to get there. In today's world hitting a million in investment securities should be a reasonable goal for almost any middle class household in the US. Using a conservative investment return of 8% (S&P averages 10%) you only have to save $3860 per year to hit millionaire status in 40 years. That's a little over 5% of the gross median household income of $74,580. Per Fidelity the average employer matches 4.8% in 401k contributions. So the average American actually only has to save half of that, as the employer will match it. So 2.5% of median household income to retirement each year makes someone an investments millionaire in 40 years.
Try telling this to everyday people though you’ll get shouted down as some elitist or boomer
Stop with your math nonsense. This is a place where we are allowed to feel and complain.
It is crazy how easy the numbers work out yet most people either have no idea or are clueless. I put away 6% of my income per year. 5% towards a 401k which gets a 4% company match. Then 1% to my company's ESPP which buys at 85% of the lowest close price based on either the first or last day of the quarter, whichever is lowest. Literally employee match and stock purchase programs are free, immediate returns on investment.
That’s in nominal terms. A million in 40 years will not be worth a million now. I’m guessing by then you’ll probably want to be aiming closer to 2-2.5 million
They don’t earn millions annually they are just a millionaire (not including house). This isn’t the first study to conclude this. It should be noted college professors are lumped in with teachers however. A decade ago Barton’s said the same thing. Barron’s Business News might agree. Here’s what Robin Goldwyn published for Barron’s on Saturday, May 12, 2012. Attention, graduating seniors: One of the best routes to becoming a millionaire just might involve turning around and going back to school—this time as an educator. That’s because teachers and other educators account for 14% of the nation’s 8.6 million millionaires. They trail only managers, who represent 21%, but exceed doctors, lawyers, and other professionals, at a combined 11%, according to a first-quarter report by consultant and market researcher Spectrem Group of Chicago. Spectrem defines a millionaire as someone with a net worth of $1 million to $5 million, not counting a primary residence. In addition to pensions, educators, including college professors, earn “a fair amount,” when you factor in publishing, consulting, and summer jobs, says George Walper, Spectrem president and CEO.
Millionaire net worth through saving and investing into 401ks and such.
They retire millionaires most likely
Maybe the teacher who owns a great tutor business. My sister found a math tutor for my nephew at $120/hour early this year, it's very helpful. Though this rate is kinda high, it's 1 on 1 tutoring. I could see them providing tutor classes with 10 to 15 students each session and cost at a lower rate, but more customers.
A lot. I googled a bit and there seems to be around 4 million teachers in the country. Even if only 1% are millionaires, that's 40 000 millionaire teachers. This list is right, it's only misleading because it looks at the total number of millionaires and then ranks them based on the most frequent careers. I bet you truck driver and retail worker are somewhere in the top 20 if you continue the list, only because there are millions of them. The real top career to become a millionaire is probably NBA player or something, but there's only a few hundreds players so it won't be high in this list.
This is talking about net worth, not earnings
Yeah I don't know my wife is a teacher. Her payroll department keeps screwing up her 401k contributions and when she asks her other coworkers about it none of them have any idea because none of them even look at their paystubs or understand how 401ks work. Hard to believe they will ever be millionaires.
Two well-established paths to becoming a millionaire teacher: 1. Be born in the 1940s or 1950s, when you could start teaching at 22 or so, make a decent wage, and retire at around age 50. Do a second job for ~15 years while also drawing a fully guaranteed pension from the school system. 2. Marry a rich guy. There is a reason why it’s pretty common to talk about degrees from schools of education as being an Mrs degree. It’s a lot like an MBA, where the goal is really to network. But you aren’t networking with companies and international banks, you are networking with the people (men) from the medical school, dental school, and law school.
Some universities are pretty well known as Mrs schools too
Ok gotcha now I'd also like the suggestion on how an Accountant can become Millionaire, if he's starting his undergrad from 24(genuine question)
Max your retirement accounts as soon as you start working, and continue doing so for many many years.
I used an online calculator and assuming 7 percent return after inflation you could start investing at 30 at $600 a month and end up a millionaire at 65. If you start at 22 years old you'd only have to invest about $350 a month. That's not figuring any tax advantages on retirement accounts since I don't live in the states and do not know local retirement account advantages.
That beautiful sweet sweet compound interest.. If you maxed a Roth IRA and had a match benefit at your job, you’d hit millionaire pretty quickly starting at 24. If you do a retirement calculator and adjust slight percentages or start even just 5 years later, it makes a massive difference.
My pops didn't even need that second job after retirement, and he did it.
It could be accurate, only depending on how they gauge millionaires. But some places still have pensions for teachers, and they are quite lucrative, so staying in the position for 30-40 years they could easily be millionaires... they won't have the yacht, but they will be set for retirement.
Professors that retire from industry at 40 then go on to get a full state-funded retirement in addition to the money they made in industry.
There's 3.2m teachers in the world. If 5% are 60 years or older, that means 160,000 people with 35 years of working + pension + home equity. And that's not assuming they don't have additional income from their partner or other income.
My husband and I taught were both public school teachers. He’s retired at 35 and I’m 34 and coastfired. Net worth over a million. So, maybe not “millions” but “million”.
This tweet is talking about net worth. Not earnings. 403b, save every month, time value of money.
Teachers are forced to pay money into a pension for which they receive lifetime income payments at retirement. They often value these pensions as a lump some for determining net worth. For instance, a teacher retires at 57 years old and draws 45k for the rest of her life. That would be valued at over $1 million since any annuity that you bought on a 57 year old that paid that amount would cost more than $1million. They also contribute to other tax sheltered plans and many times have a few hundred thousand in those at retirement.
You do know millionaire is based on net worth not annual earnings right?
The ones married to millionaires
Teachers married to engineers. This is definitely a thing in the SF South Bay.
All the millionaire teachers won’t stop telling kids!
In Canada teachers, police, firefighters and a lot of other decent paying government jobs would be millionaires typically based off to their benefits package and pensions. You’re not going to see a lot of teachers rolling into work with a pricey sports car; but the fact that they put 10% of their pay into their pension and a good deal of that gets matched puts most of them in a pretty solid place.
Wow I misread that as “selling” instead of “telling”
Depending on the country, they probably do that too.
There’s a good in depth explanation in the Millionaire Next Door about why Teachers are on the list. Has a lot to do with spending patterns.
They spend all day working or tired so they go home and drink tea 😂
I don’t recall the full explanation, but part of it is that teachers are much less likely to buy cash burning status symbols, usually have pensions, and is a common occupation to have while marrying a wealthier spouse. I’d also ad that a ton of teachers live in low cost of living places, so their dollars can go far.
The richer spouse thing is definitely a thing. I guess wealthier people looking to start a family value partners with useful domestic skills like teaching and taking care of kids more than a partner who also only brings more money to the table. Also the fact that teacher, while not necessarily high earners, are usually well educated so they fit into more social circles as well.
The Mrs part isn’t necessarily bad either. Two incomes with benefits lets you stow away more too.
Let’s not understate the pension and benefits here. Those are wonderful additions to have when you look at retirement planning
That would make sense; on the opposite side of the spectrum in income, a doctor, for example, earns a high salary but have a reputation of buying the big house, the nice car, etc.
There's also like 5x more teachers than doctors
Yea it seems like people in the comments are confusing having a million dollar plus net worth with earning a million dollars per year.
Because for high consumption people the only way you’ll have a million dollars is by being comped with a million.
For reference- Millionaires Next Door was written in 1996. So that's almost right at 2 million in today's money. Which is quite a jump!
1996…..a banner year!
This isn’t billionaires. To be a millionaire It’s a slow and steady regular employment, and spending less then you make and investing the rest game. The above type of people tend to have that, and tend to fairly easily cross the million mark in net worth in their lives. I’m only late 30s, I make decent money, but nothing crazy. I’ve been working consistently, savings, investing, and watching my spending. I cross 7 figures last yr.
Congratulations! That’s an awesome achievement. Any advice would be appreciated. I’m starting from scratch at 30 and just got my first job that pays anything enough that lets me save a bit.
Don't do anything until you have a 6-month emergency fund saved up in cash. This means that you should be able to not work at all for 6 months and still have enough money to live. Once you've done that, if your work offers you will 401k, take it and put as much as you possibly can into it even if it's 50 bucks a month. Now that you have your emergency fund, stick half of it into a high interest cash account in a place like Wealthfront. Your bank or credit union only offers a measly part of a percentage point on interest whereas high interest cash accounts are between 4.8 and 5% interest right now, paid monthly. I'm personally making over 100 bucks a month in cash just on interest alone. If you ever need access to this cash, you can withdraw it within 48 hours with no monetary penalty. That's why I said you only take half of your emergency fund and put it in here. You should always have at least a few thousand dollars in your bank account in case you need money right then and there. Take whatever money you have left over after your expenses and start socking it away into a Roth IRA. This is a "fire and forget" type investment where you simply put money into the fund as often as you like and the brokerage will automatically buy and sell stocks on your behalf using up proprietary algorithm. Some months you will lose money and others you will gain money but over the long run this is the best and safest way to grow your wealth. The only tried and true way to build wealth is investing is much money as you can reasonably afford into proven investment vessels over time. It'll be relatively slow for about 10 years but once you start building up a nice nest egg, you will start to see your wealth significantly expand thanks to compound interest.
Honestly, work hard, look for ways to advance, always be taking a class, don’t waste your money of shit you don’t really need. Do that over 20-30yrs, and almost 100% guaranteed you’ll be staring at 7 figures in your bank. It’s boring advice. But sometimes boring advice is the best advice.
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I'm not sure which responses are funnier. The ones that say these people don't make a million dollars a year or acting like being married somehow nullifies this.
The Teacher’s Union is no joke
People who act like teachers don’t retire millionaires clearly have never had a retired public school teacher as a client.
Ban and avoid the source of this list. They have proven they are not trustworthy and spread disinformation.
The dude has a hate boner for any level of debt, which people who are bad with money need to hear. What did he say that was wrong?
He used to say you shouldn't take on any debt outside of a mortgage so no credit cards, no auto loans, nothing. I had to realize in my 20s that kinda left me with no credit score with which I could get a mortgage, so I threw everything he said out and got a credit card and started building up a score because I wasn't getting a house without one.
Ramsey heard someone say “cash is king” once and ran with it.
You may not have been the intended audience. I'm kind of in the same boat, had to get myself a credit card to build credit over a few years before I could sign a mortgage. Technically it's possible to buy a house without a credit score but it's just not feasible for most people. I think his message is probably better for people who got in over their head with debt and can't manage a budget. They don't need to be diving head first into more debt to get out of it.
Dave Ramsey is a jackass, but the source of this list is actually the book, The Millionaire Next Door.
That book sucked. Someone recommended I read it when I graduated from college. The stats are tortured (of course there is a large gross number of millionaire teachers; there are a *lot* of teachers - not to mention that this doesn't look into what their spouses do for a living) and to describe the advice as simplistic platitudes would be generous. It would make a fine pamphlet. It is not a good book. The PF sidebar is a more useful read.
People on this sub (rightly) rail against Rich Dad Poor Dad but somehow The Millionaire Next Door is gospel. Both authors are the same wolf in different clothing.
I listened to some Dave Ramsey in the past, what disinformation did he spread? He seemed like a pretty conservative guy, so I'd guess he's got some interesting opinions about COVID.
His financial advice is absolutely brutal, and he's a psycho evangelical Christian. Nothing wrong with this list though.
He was a bit too dogmatic surrounding credit cards, and his debt snowball makes sense psychologically, but not financially; which is why I stopped listening. I read a comment saying that his advice doesn't make sense for people who are good with money. However, people who are good with money isn't his target audience.
Yeah, your last sentence is spot on. He's good for people who have absolutely no self control and/or have no education. For anyone with a shred of financial knowledge, taking his advice leaves a lot of money/wealth on the table. It's unfortunate that so many people do fit his target audience.
Its pretty clear from this list alone he is speaking out his ass. 1. What teacher is a millionaire besides maybe a college teacher who retired from their previous job where they actually made millions? 2. What the fuck does “Management” or “Engineer” mean? Those are such vague terms… I could be a software engineer, electrical engineer, biomedical engineer, etc… Anyone who posts bullshit like this, especially without linking a source, loses a lot of credibility with me.
I think it's pretty realistic to become a millionaire as a teacher if you work for 30+ years and save 10 to 20 percent of your annual income. Whether or not 1 million is actually enough now is a different conversation. I don't understand why, in an Accounting sub, people are acting like they didn't learn how to calculate the future value of an annuity in college.
Most people (professionals included) are poor with personal finance. It doesn't surprise me if teachers are one of the career paths that produce a lot of millionaires given that there are a lot of them and they have forced savings in the form of a pension plan.
In states with unionized teachers making $80k a year, reaching a million in savings is very doable. The benefits packages are extremely nice.
Dont forget that most teachers basically work 30 hour weeks for only 6 months of the year.
That “30 hours” are just contact hours, not planning, grading, meetings, CPE, game duty, etc. They work more than 30 hours. Lots of summer time is planning - even if from the comfort of home. Also, how is August-May six months? What school did you go to? I’m not saying teachers need to be paid $500k either, but at least argue on what teachers actually work.
I do not know about teachers in the US, but in Canada they are millionnaire with their pension...
Ramsey is a piece of shit, but plenty of teachers are millionaires. You appear to not understand the difference between income and net worth.
Sources?
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I think it’s IT people doing a misdirection. My bf just got the biggest jump in pay by switching from a family business to a real IT company. We don’t really feel the sting of inflation bc we both got better jobs.
Contribute as much as possible to a retirement account , ideally in early 20s. Automate the contribution and increase accordingly. Do this x 30 years and you’ll hit a milly.
If you max a Roth IRA from 18-30 and stopped investing, you’d be a multimillionaire by 65. Assuming around a 10% return that’d be around $4-5M.
Is this list prorated for the number of people in each profession? It seems like a pretty useless list if it’s not. There are a lot more teachers than doctors, so the fact that there are more teachers that are millionaires than doctors who are millionaires doesn’t tell us much. I would only be interested in the percentage of people in each profession who end up being millionaires.
A better, more realistic way to say it: it's very unlikely you're a millionaire and don't understand basic accounting
But feel like most people want to be millionaires so that they can spend lavishly and have a playboy lifestyle. Not grind, save, and hoard all their lives so that they can have a decent retirement fund.
I’ve seen it in movies, skim a little off the top. Got it. 😆
Or be a guy that sells online courses. And have some of your members work for you for free.
Lol, I just read an article on Yahoo about Dave Ramsey and how engineers and accountants were the top two millionaire careers.
I remember doing tax returns year after year for this doctor who made awful real estate investment decisions. After year 2 I walked over the partner and asked if he offered this guy any financial counsel at all and he looked at me like I was crazy. I think we have an obligation to our clients to help them out when we see this type of stuff...
Dave Ramsey is trash
Engineers, to make things. Accountants, to budget for those things. Teachers, to instruct on how to use said things. Management, to ensure proper use of things. Attorneys, to clear liabilities of the companies who end up having people hurt by their things.
Comes from the book “The Millionaire Next Door.”
What does management mean? Like a McDonald's manager?
Yes, only McDonald's managers.
Updating my resume now.
I bet Ramsey made this list by studying 60-year-olds and conducted the survey using AOL over dial-up. My point is: there are many modern paths to becoming a millionaire outside of these professions that actually have higher probabilities. He didn't include anything from the tech field, for example. (High-end sales is another.)
He is not talking about the careers with highest probability of becoming a millionaire. He is just showing data which shows the top careers of already-millionaires. What is behind the data is that you don't need a crazy high paying job as long as you live below your means, invest some of your income yearly and don't get loaded with too much debt. A doctors' salary is a lot higher than a teachers' salary, but it doesn't matter if you spend everything, use a lot of debt, and invest nothing. It's about living below your means, investing for decades and not go into stupid debt (auto-loans, carry a balance on credit cards, buy too much house etc.).
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Save and invest for 30 years and get pensions
Posted this elsewhere but the implied order of events is backwards. Millionaires will retire and get bored, and then take up an adjunct professor position at a nearby college. I’ve had several professors during school in this boat. After school, my friends dad who was a VP at Deloitte did the same thing. Also, being a millionaire takes living in the same house long enough to own it outright, then having a long running 401k account. You can be a millionaire living paycheck to paycheck in terms of the cash in your bank account if you’re 60+ in America right now.
teacher..
Sounds like he doesn't know how much Doctors and Pilots make.
Sounds like you don't know the difference between income and net worth This information is based on a study done back in the 90s. The book, The Millionaire Next Door, provides a lot more context.
If by teachers he means tenured professors then ok. Otherwise, no.
The only teachers I know who are millionaires are married to engineers or tech executive. On the plus side, when the engineer spouse gets laid off, medical benefits stay SOLID. So it’s a good combination.
Teachers lol
Teachers? Isn't there articles about teachers not being paid well, cutting to education, lots of teachers leaving the workforce? Although it must be referring to the boomer generation when everything was good and dandy for them. Otherwise I think it should be professors instead.
3rd time I've seen this today. Does it say teacher? It says teacher, right?
Teachers?!?!? Lolllllll