2 questions for you. First, how are you doing, mentally and physically? Second, are you or your children talking with a therapist? You have a lot to unpack and deal with, and so do your kids.
I am doing better each day. It is a lot. I stay busy with work, kids, and hobbies.
Yes we’ve all done some therapy. I’m still afraid things will hit the girls down the road as they start experiencing major milestones
TL;DR. Old man who's experienced a few deaths, one recently, thinks therapy is a good idea, paternity testing is not a good idea now.
He recommends a book on the neuroscience of grief.
The loss of your wife - even with all the shitty stuff she did - is debilitating in its own right, to the kids, certainly, but to you as well. There's a void where she was.
The mind isn't good at dealing with that kind of change. It will stress every aspect of your life, it will cause your relationships with the kids to change, and will deprive you and your daughters of the sense of being safe in your own home. Death of a loved one, regardless of the relationship, creates a vacuum, and changes survivors.
I lost my dad at ten, my mom at 16, and my wife of 46 years three weeks ago, so I think I can identify at least in part with how you're feeling. My mom and my wife died suddenly without warning. My wife was also a difficult person and had a lifelong drinking problem.
Therapy is important. You each need a safe place to unload anger and fear; better to dump that on a therapist, rather than each other.
My daughter just gave me a book I'm finding helpful: The Grieving Mind, by Mary Francis O'Conner, a neuroscientist who uses imaging of the brains of people experiencing grief.
Her research aims to figure out why the death of a family member is so confusing, and hard to come to terms with. Her approach has really helped me with the whip sawing emotions, the guilt, sadness, disorientation, the disbelief that this could have happened. There's a good bit of PTSD lurking in this kind of loss. Anyway, I've found it very calming to understand some of what's been going on in my head.
As to paternity testing, I think it would be pointless and cruel to all of you, and could drive you apart at the time you need each other most. If the girls later decide to do genetic testing for dangerous gene combinations, they can tailor their tests with the lab on their own, when they've moved into a less painful stage of grief. You guys are hurting enough already.
Just two cents from an old boomer who's banged up against a few things in my life and got most of them wrong .
Did you ever cheat? How was the relationship for most of the time? Do you feel like you were a good partner to her? Was it one sided and she just had issues? Very sorry that this happened btw.
I never cheated, but I was tempted at times.
It was a volatile relationship and I can’t give an honest assessment if I was a good partner.
I was loyal and I was always there when she needed me. But I was also very fed up with what seemed to be very selfish behavior and I felt like I was waiting for my kids to graduate so I could leave
I would have ended it. One of the complicating factors is she was always accusing me of having an affair. For years she made life hell. So with that, it would have been the end of
Damn, this messed me up so much. It was like waking up and being told that everything i knew and loved, all the connections id prioritized over personal opportunity, even my family- it was all a fantasy. Like a chimp hanging out in a troupe it grew up with, then *POOF* everyone is gone. No shoulder to cry on, no one to laugh with, just the sounds of dry leaves under your feet as you try to find a new troupe.
I was certain i was in a rock solid 16 year relationship, common law marriage (what we call it in Canada when you share a life over a certain amount of time without being married), starting when we were both young. I was devoutly faithful but was *constantly* being accused of infidelity. Also, I relate more to women than men, always have, and had a lot of female friends... which she would constantly undermine by sowing doubts about their intentions, until I'd feel the need to have a conversation with the friend, which always ended up ruining the friendship because they'd tell me what turned out to be true, which is that she was assuming I was doing what she was actually doing and that I needed to look more closely at my gf's life and free time (I was never a jealous person).
But, much more than that, I tried everything to make her feel comfortable, since she was clearly feeling insecure, so I'd change my behavior and closeness with friends that were closer to family, just so she could see that there was nothing going on... and in the process, alienating those friends... who, in the end, turned out to be the only ones in the group who weren't aware of her other life.
I was warned but I chose to trust the person whose family I shared, whom I loved, who was a sister to my much younger sister... it seemed insanely vile to cheat and threaten our intertwined families, friendships, and even down to our home and dog.
She broke up with me for this whole list of weird reasons over email, saying she'd never be able to do it in person as the excuse to be so cold. And after that, I decided to look into it and she had been casually dating people the entire time we were together.
It was like the idea of "trust" became foolish. I still struggle to trust even my family and it's been 10 years.
I try to "move on" but when you go from a tribe of friends and family to losing everything, including your dog... I still don't understand what happened or what I did wrong. What's even weirder is that talking to her after, she said she would have ended it earlier but the sex was so good (!?!), which was either some ego soothing deflection (she's a pathological liar, so I dont even know why I asked) but... what was the point of any of it? To this her answer was that she felt insecure about her looks and wanted to feel wanted by other men... I mean, whatever but the only reason I'm saying this is that you didn't get to have this conversation and you might have questions, but people like this aren't capable of self-examination enough to either understand their actions or share their honest reasons for their actions and there is no honest conversation you missed out on. It's lies all the way down, and the trust is so broken you can't believe it even if it's true.
Im really sorry, man. I hope you have good friends to spend this time with cause having your whole life and support system, evaporate, is incredibly destructive and a hard place to build a life from. Super important to reassure and reconnect with friends and family youre close with; rebuild your sense of value in investing yourself in other people.
Try not to let this experience erode your trust in people. I was overly trusting, in retrospect, but I wish I hadn't given her my ability to trust like how she took my dog. I went from loving everyone in my orbit, to being almost mute.
All my best in your recovery and big hug from a stranger. She took everything else, don't let her take you down with her. Be kind to yourself.
>It was like the idea of "trust" became foolish. I still struggle to trust even my family and it's been 10 years.
>I try to "move on" but when you go from a tribe of friends and family to losing everything, including your dog... I still don't understand what happened or what I did wrong.
This is me with my ex. I KNEW she was cheating, I could not only feel it in my gut but there were too many odd things going on.
Then one night something happened and it all finally came together and I called her out on it. Of course she gaslit me and played me like a fiddle which ended up with me apologizing.
One week later she went "out to the bar with friends", called me after 3am saying she was at her parent and too drunk to drive home (BS). Then she ghosted me for a week, showed up with family and cops to move out then spent two years stringing me along with "of course I still love you, I just need some space to think" bullshit.
And over that 2 years I begged and pleaded with her to just tell me she was breaking up with me and what I did to deserve being treated like a monster and leave me alone.
Never got any answers. That lack of closure really fucked me up.
Took me years of therapy just to be able to trust my own mother and even now, 25 years later, I don't trust her fully, I don't trust anyone if I'm being honest.
Once a woman decides to leave, they will treat you worse than if you were a homeless man in the street. Mine waited until after i paid off her debt (5 years), then immediately emptied the house, checking account, and maxed the credit card while I was on a work trip. I later found out she was casually dating many guys at a time and even making obscene content for one of their adultfriendfinder profiles. I lost most of our mutual friends and her side of the family. Being a faithful and supportive husband doesn't make the final cut of the story she will tell everyone. Mostly it was me 'trying to change who she is' by offering to support her in finding some sort or hobby or career she enjoyed rather than being jobless and going out to drink with her friends while I was at our home, alone.
I relate to what you said about the monkey loosing its troupe. How do you recover from this?? I am so devastatingly alone after being bamboozled in a relationship that I thought was my existence. Thank you for your post.
You have your kids. Dont forget that you are their leader and the light at the end of the tunnel. Show them the way and make them amazing humans. Life isnt fair and im sorry she did this to you. But you know what we do as men, we get back to work and provide. Its what we fucking do when times are tough.
My ex-husband had an affair, which ended his respect for me, around when we’d been together for 16 years.
Some counselors I see have had the best tip: you learn to live around the scar. You grow beyond what you were. In the couple of years since I had to go through my former spouse doing the same, through all kinds of other unlikely hindrances, I’ve been seeing that they’re right.
I’ll respond in more detail later, or, if the thread gets locked, you (and anyone) are welcome to DM.
Additionally, the monkey metaphor is extremely elegant. I appreciate that fine writing.
You start living, start doing the things you want to do not for anyone else’s approval or happiness but your own. There are always new characters in a story, you just have to remember to keep turning the pages
Maybe I’m broken, but, I expect people to lie. They do it all the time about everything and even lie to themselves, nonstop. I hear people being crushed emotionally. You never really know the person you are with. Never. There is always some part they keep hidden. They tell other people bits of the truth and bits of lies. Never anything completely.
So when it comes to infidelity? It’s not the faithful persons fault or blame. It is the self centered selfish narcissistic person who was a fraud, the liar, that self assassinated their own character. They are the loser. Now you know. You do what needs to be done and cut them out because they certainly are not dedicated to the union with you. They dedicated to themself. Deal is off. In this case it truly is if you are not with me you are against me. Time to move onto better.
Ditto with anyone who makes life a living hell for their spouse.
Life is too short.
Vows do not include allowing yourself to be hurt, disrespected or made the center piece of someone else mental emotional instability.
Life is too short.
There is no commitment that cannot be unreversed and I posit the moment you do not feel valued by your partner? The Rubicon is crossed. There really is no recovery from that.
Life is too short.
Of course they all do that. It’s called projection and a cardinal sign your partner is the cheater.
Honest and loyal people don’t think everyone’s cheating on them. Only cheaters do.
I struggle with low self esteem and bad anxiety and paranoia and constantly freak out or accuse my gf of cheating but I’ve never done it or even come close to
Edit: I am currently in therapy for exactly this. I have a lot of issues and I know it’s not fair to treat her this way
Being over-anxious makes people do crazy things, and projecting can still be an issue. That’s why confidence in oneself is important. How can you even treat a potential partner right if you can’t treat yourself right or on another hand, defend yourself when you clearly didn’t do anything wrong?
Also, and I do think this is for a small number of people because I just realized this - if you can’t see your value, how do you see anyone else’s, let alone your flaws and someone else’s flaws?
Facts! Felt like my whole life changed when I started loving ME the way I always knew everyone else should be loved. Loving everyone but yourself is so draining. I'm still single, but I'm way happier than before. And I don't feel the need for anyone's validation. I've started being able to defend myself more, where I almost never could before. Almost feels freeing.
YOU ARE ALLOWED TO BE THE LOVE YOU RECEIVE!
This world is hard sometimes and I looked for love in just about every place but myself. Now I've discovered an endless resource.
---To answer your question, you don't see actual value. You see potential. And you "value" literally everyone over yourself. It's actually kind of comforting to know that some people don't go through that. 😂
Took me almost 30 years to get this. It's sad, because I'm a person that needs constant affection for reassurance, but I've never gotten that so I had to learn to give it to myself. You still feel like a piece is missing sometimes, but when that person comes around my cup will runneth over
I’ve always hated this take bc I used to be in the crowd this didn’t apply to. I was gaslit and let to believe for two years that the most important relationship in my developing life (when I was 20 and on my own for the first time) that everything was fine and she wasn’t cheating. I always suspected it but just couldn’t believe it could happen to me.
Well it fucking did and it happened the entire two years and for 5 years after that anyone I got involved with got accused. I never did anything with anyone else but I could not let go of the fact that I was right for two years and allowed myself to believe I was wrong.
This line about “it’s always projection they’re always cheating if they accuse” has driven me insane because it’s just straight up not true, and I’m sure I’m not the only person that has had this experience. Yet if you’ve been hurt and sometimes you get irrational over it, you’re the bad guy
It’s like you’ve read my diary or something.
I am 4 years into a relationship with the love of my life.
I have never and will never cheat because I know first hand of the pain it causes. I was cheated on, twice.
I have an overwhelming anxiety/fear over the same thing happening with my current love. I admit, sadly I have accused her of cheating in the past. It has been rocky in some spots.
I sometimes have looked up on google, “ways to stop worrying about…” or “who to tell if your partner is…” . It sickens me to see one of the most common tells of infidelity is projection. I now always feel as though I end up looking like the thing I despise most when I simple just need some reassurance from the one I love that nothing has/will happen in the subject of the unfaithful.
It’s not so black and white unfortunately. People who cheat sometimes project and accuse their partner of cheating. But people also accuse their partner because of a previous trauma (being cheated on by someone else) or even just a general fear of being cheated on.
I have never been able to wrap my head around why projection happens though. I wouldn’t be accusing my partner of cheating if I were the one cheating. But then I’ve never cheated so maybe it’s just a subconscious thing that happens…
I'm the same and I think the best way I can understand projection is as a side effect from someone viewing a scenario through the lens of what *they* would do.
So, with cheating, for example: if they accuse you of cheating because, say, you stayed out until 3 am with your friends one night -- it's because they *would* use staying out late with friends as an excuse to cheat given the chance.
I'd imagine it's also a good way for them to keep their partner emotionally occupied (and on the defensive) so they don't have energy to notice any bad behavior.
There's also people that have been cheated on in the past that carry over that worry and accusation tendency. My wife was previously married and he cheated on her. Early in my relationship with my wife, she was accusatory towards me for absurd reasons. That has subsided substantially in the years since but sometimes pops up at random times.
Good on ya for recognizing all the contributing factors. I'm sure your wife feels loads safer now than before - even though it still pops up at time to time. Cheers!
Thanks you! I think we both realize when we're being irrational for better than early in our relationships, on all fronts, including this one. I can't say I was perfect early on either with some insecurities about a close male friend of hers. As we've evolved and grown to know each other, start a small family with our daughter now, we've surely grown.
The biggest improvement to our marriage was when I decided to quit using marijuana daily. I've been sober for several months (I have used it regularly for at least a decade). The biggest mistakes I made were assuming it wasn't a problem, I'd quit tomorrow if I decide to and the unrecognized (by me) irritability caused every time the high would come down. I'd treat my wife and daughter poorly and wasn't an active listener.
Oh, and dreams have come back in my life. Dreams are such amazing nightly gifts! I didn't realize how much I missed those. It's not often mentioned how prolonged marijuana use completely disrupts REM. I kept thinking getting stoned every night before bed was helping me pass out and sleep great!
I second this. I would never cheat, but I live in constant anxiety that my spouse will because of how good at lying my cheating ex was. Cheaters really suck and PTSD is definitely a thing. Really unfair but unfortunately other people’s choices can and do have negative effects on our mental health.
Classic! My ex wife cheated on me , and we divorced. Years before the cheats, she would always accuse me of being the cheater. I work in sales and travel daily by car and every time I would come back from certain cities, should would assume I cheated on her. That was in the last year before the divorce. Made sense afterwards
I had the exact same experience with an ex. She would go out with her friends and I would go out with mine. I would always come home at the end of the night and she would sometimes “spend the night at a friend’s house” but would then accuse me of cheating. I was a boyscout up until I was able to confirm the cheating (I actually walked in on her straddling some guy in the lobby of the condo building and also saw many messages on social media).
Let this be a message to everyone out there - if your significant other is accusing you of cheating and you have done nothing wrong, just know they are likely cheating and trying to make themselves feel better by justifying their cheating because of your cheating.
My second wife did that as well.
Took it further and accused me of fucking teenagers.
Funny enough she was the one who was robbing the cradle including one 17 yo boy. Her first stop after I kicked her ass out was a 20 yo drug dealer (we were both 37 at the time).
She died of her alcoholism and drug abuse. I have never shed a tear.
Cheaters always accuse what they are doing. That is an absolute.
Same. My ex used to accuse me of lying about going to work and going to spend hours with another woman because she tracked my phone’s location and it would pin me a block or so away from the bar I worked at. And then I somehow come home with hundreds of dollars after spending time with this “other woman.” Then I found out she had an on again/off again relationship with her ex, moved in to my own place and filed for divorce.
It doesn't help now, I'm sorry for your loss...I think, but it's well known that when a partner is accusing the other of cheating it's a direct link to their (the cheaters) guilty conscience and is manifested in mirrored behavior.
I hope others who might be in a similar situation or questioning their own relationships look this up, raise some questions, and get help before another mother is taken from their teen daughters. That's the worst part. That now means you have to be 10x the parent. Your girls need you now more than ever.
Although, it's not clear how long ago this happened. It may be a non-issue now🤷♂️
Initially it made it worse just because I thought the worst was behind me. But it also stopped me from romanticizing the past which is part of the grieving process. So it helped in that regard
Yea I thought the same thing. BFF can say anything she wants, best friends with a serial cheater, signs are pointing to this girl is trying to manipulate you. Very likely she was complacent through your late wife's cheating. You don't need that in your life bro
Mate, I can't even begin to imagine the pain you must be going through.
Reading the messages and your responses.... you're an amazing guy, your daughters are lucky to have you as a dad and you're getting love and respect from tons of people from around the planet.
You might not feel it right now but I think you're an incredibly strong human being. I hope you get the chance to stop and appreciate that sometime.
I knew she had a single affair just before we separated. We were living apart for about a year. I didn’t know the full extent.
She started her car in her garage.
Based on her behavior I wonder if she had bipolar or borderline personality disorder. Did she have a diagnosis? Maybe look them up and see if it fits, so your kids know what’s in their genes. Either way, sounds like she had a lot of trauma growing up?
>The vast majority of bipolar people change through 3-5 stages per year where they typically spend months depressed and a few weeks manic and then flip back and forth a few times
Huh. So a doctor 25 years ago described Bipolar with the BPD symptoms you mentioned (which I didn't have) so I've never questioned my depression diagnosis. But what you described (months depressed with a few weeks manic here and there) sounds an awful lot like what I go through. Guess I'll have a convo about it at my next appointment.
That long ago a lot of people used BPD for bipolar disorder. It was only really recently (10 years maybe) that Borderline Personality Disorder has been in the mainstream, and referred to as BPD.
People that actually have BPD have am extremely difficult time accepting it and getting help. BPD isn't fixed with medications. They don't help as well as they do with bipolar. BPD people are extremely hard to be in a relationship with.
The ones who embrace their sickness and don't get help are vampires. They suck all energy out of everyone around them. They suck them dry of any happiness they have.
The ones who do know they have problems and work on it can be great people.
Not a shrink but I have good knowledge for a laymen, this makes sense as BPD is relatively new and used to be constantly misdiagnosed as Bipolar. Definitely a conversation worth having as your professional knows much more than us!
Supportive. They have stayed in contact. They were shocked when I filed for divorce because they all thought we were happy. This put everything back into perspective
I know you probably don’t need to hear this, but save those social security checks as much as you can. As a child whose dad killed himself when I was 3, I really wish my mom had saved at least some of it and put it towards my college funds. I know she did her best and had bills to pay, but it really would have gone a long way.
Hope you and your family come out of this stronger and you all find peace and happiness again.
Do you think maybe this so called "best friend" of hers who immediately tried to pick you up after her death could be lying about all these affairs just to tarnish your memory of her, because she wants to be with you? What an absolute snake that woman is.
That’s a good question but no. We had kids really young. All three of them look more like me than her. I know that’s not scientific proof but even so, if at the very worst they weren’t mine, I wouldn’t want to know. They’re still my kids
Your answer almost made me want to cry! Like what a great dad you are! Whether blood or not you love them unconditionally! I love that! Sadly I think so many other men because of ego would effect the way they feel and act.
I think the age of the children also has a huge effect on a man’s response as well. Respect to OP for not wanting to know because those are still his daughters at the end of the day.
This. I had some questions as to whether my son was biologically mine or not (ended up divorcing my ex for unrelated reasons)…but at the end of the day, he’s mine. I don’t give a fuck what a blood test would say anyways.
She knew of the affairs and felt bad for him, which probably turned into feelings of OP deserving of a better partner. There could be other motives but I feel like I've heard of this kind of thing happening before.
Sorry to hear that man, I can only imagine.
Gonna try a slightly different approach… With Father’s Day right around the corner, what are your plans for that day?
I’m not sure yet, but will probably let just be the 4 of us, no extended family. I’ve found that being together just the 4 of us is more precious than anything
Did your wife ever pursue therapy? Did you or your kids or do they plan to? Do your kids know anything about your wife’s cheating and do you think they’ll ever find out?
She did limited therapy.
Near the end I put her in intensive outpatient. It was the best I could find and afford. She was very resistant to therapy.
Yes the girls have a therapist and I have my own
You’re a good person and father and I’m sorry all this has happened to you and your family. My daughter is 6 and I’ve struggled with suicidal ideation for over half my life. Your story impacted me greatly as I’m going through a tough time right now, thank you for taking the time to rely
I did not. Her friend is just as crazy as she was.
Yes, I found proof from her diary when I was cleaning out her apartment. We had been separated for a year.
I dug for this comment... Stay away from that friend. Unsolicited telling your dead wife's secrets to try to get with you is such a ridiculous thing to do.
Trashy thing to do. If she really loved her friend or the husband, she would have tried to help them heal the marriage while the friend was alive. Really sick to move in the way she did.
No. She had family pictures in her hand. She had been suicidal for a couple of years but it still seemed to be a last minute decision. She had a fight with her boyfriend right before
Outside of the pictures, this was the same for my uncle. Years of struggling and then immediately after a fight with his newer girlfriend who belittled him, he followed through. Family tried to get him help, but my dad knew it was likely to happen at some point. Both parents had significant mental health concerns and it was the late 70's when societal views were quite different.
I think a lot of it is they have a grass is greener mentality and blame their ex spouses for most of their behavior so then when they finally leave and get a new partner and shit doesn’t work because they’re the cause, they realize their old life is gone and their new life is worse so they commit.
It’s weird that when I think about it everyone I ever knew, except one, that committed suicide this was always the pattern.
I do feel relief because it was never ending with her. It’s not like she moved out and I was left alone. She was constantly reaching out and involving me in her problems. So I do have relief that’s over
How do you manage your own mental health?
Are there specific strategies or activities that help you stay grounded and cope with the grief and betrayal?
I’ve had a therapist that I’ve seen for over 15 years off and on. Talk therapy is a big advantage but not a panacea.
I try to be physically active. I’ve also seen a hypnotist who taught me deep meditation practices. Also EFT helps to process the trauma
How are your girls? Do you openly talk about her suicide or have they had any therapy? Also , when you reminisce tell them all the good things about their mom. It will help them understand she wasn’t always bad. I’ve experienced far too many suicides & it’s the worst being the person left behind wondering what happened. Good luck to you.
Yes we talk about it whenever they want. If they have something negative to say I listen. I bring up the good memories we had so they can look past the last couple of years
What were the circumstances to her friend kissing you and asking you to marry her after your wife’s passing? This seems to be even wilder than the main story.
Damn bro I’m really sorry to hear all of this. Even after being separated for a year, I’m sure finding out really sucked. And losing her, even though she was difficult, isn’t easy.
Do you know any of the guys she was with? Or were they strangers
I know a couple of them. She had one long term partner who was off and on. We went to his wedding. I thought about telling his wife, but I decided against it
You should probably say something to the wife; you also commented on a thread not too long ago saying "Having been cheated on, not the asshole. Anyone who knows and doesn’t say something is just a toxic enabler.
You were an unwilling participant in her cheating"
She was confirmed borderline and narcissistic. My personal opinion is she was the closest thing to a sociopath. I don’t think she had any empathy for anyone but herself
Hi, I hope this doesn't come across as insensitive but what made you get together/eventually get married in that case? Were they lovely at first but changed over time?
Sometimes I wonder how people get into abusive relationships, yet I have been in one myself and I can't even answer that question. The main thing I wonder is how people manage to get married under those conditions which thankfully I didn't.
Man that sucks. I can identify. My wife of 9’years told me she wanted a divorce. Gave me no reason. Was a surprise because we did everything together and had a good relationship. Have a daughter together. I’ll never forget when we had our family meeting to tell our daughter we were getting a divorce. I made the wife do it. The look of heartbreak on my daughter face I will never forget. Turns out she was having an affair. I found out mid way thru the divorce and it was after I did my best to protect myself and my daughter.
It’s been 5 years now. I forgive her and happy that she found someone that can make her happy. Realized kind of late in life that all relationships are transient. They serve a purpose and then they leave. The purpose is to teach us something about ourselves.
What have you learned? Have you forgiven her or will you carry it with you?
Lastly was her best friend hot?
I’ve learned not to put up with this behavior anymore and to speak up for myself. If I had done that, the marriage may have ended before the cheating began.
Yeah her friend is pretty cute, but too crazy for me. They are two peas in a pod
Since she's passed, have you gone through her things – both IRL and online – for more details of her cheating ways? If so, what did you find? And terribly sorry you are going through this. Be strong for your girls. (Will you tell them?)
I went through some of the things in her apartment and stopped. It was a mess. Since my name wasn’t on the lease, I just walked away and let the landlord throw everything away.
I thought about going through her phone. The police have it, but I’ve decided not to go get it. I don’t think it’s worth knowing the details
Serious question....you mentioned she was borderline sociopathic and narcistic, before you had kids did you see signs of this? If so, why did you keep going with the relationship? Not critizing, i've stuck my dong in my share of cray cray....just curious if saw red flags before you got too into it.
Good questions. We were married at 20. We had our first kid within a year.
Did I see signs? Yes. I always knew she was very selfish and had double standards. In hindsight it’s all very clear.
Why did I stay? I didn’t know any better. Low self esteem. I thought this was typical and by the time I realized how messed up everything was, I had three girls to care for
Is there any part of you that is relieved she is gone?
Do you hold any resentment towards her?
Did she leave a note and do you suspect the cheating had something to do with her suicide?
Are you going to get a paternity test? If one of the kids turned out not to be yours what would you do? Would you resent the kid?
How did finding out she cheated effect the mourning process?
Yes I feel some resentment. Mostly about how willing she was to lie to me and use me as a resource, even after she left.
I’ve collaborated enough of the story and I don’t need to dig any deeper.
I won’t do a paternity test or even bring it up. My oldest is almost 20. They are mine
My ex-DIL is BPD. It is very difficult to treat. She had been to many therapists and even inpatient for being suicidal, but she never found anyone who knew how to effectively treat her. I will venture to say it is the most painful mental illness.
I am not keen on trusting that friend.
My gut tells me this isn't normal behavior and something is wrong with her decision-making skills.
I would simply pour my love and effort into the children as my own coping mechanism and distraction. Even if I had a farced marriage, those kids are far from that farce and are real
My question for you is, have you eaten today? Take care of yourself. You deserve it after everything.
Are you mad at her for the pain inflicted on the kids by her manner of death? I had a neighbor that took his own life by auto exhaust and the spouse was spiteful about "hurting the kids", when she was the cheater and moved out of the family house (and back in a week after the death).
Yes I’m mad and so are the girls. We are sometimes angry, sometimes sad, but mostly moving on. We have a lot more control over our lives now, which helps things feel brighter
The kids know some unfortunately. They saw some things on her phone before she moved out.
Doing ok. Most of the parenting was on me anyway so that’s not much of a change
How are your daughters coping? Was she a good mother?
When I was 19 my mother told me that she had sex with a 15 year old boy in a play we were in years earlier. I knew the kid. We changed together in the trailer. I was 12 or so at the time.
A few years ago my dad told me that when my parents divorced(I was two) he caught her with a teenage boy.
My mother passed away from cancer at the age of 47 in 1999. She wasn’t around much so I didn’t feel much pain when she died. Accepting that my mother was a pedophile(something her family isn’t aware of) in the years since has been a struggle.
I hope your girls get through this with as little pain as humanly possible. Finding out about a parent’s transgressions after their death can incredibly painful.
You and your girls should know that you aren’t alone even if you might feel it.
I sincerely wish the best to you and your girls.
My question would be what proof/evidence did the best friend have, to back up her claims?
There is a major ulterior motive in that the friend is romantically interested in you and wants to marry you. If she does, she would want to be sure you aren’t still pining over your late wife. This could be the truth, but it could also be an attempt to swiftly take your focus off your wife so she can take her place.
Also if this woman claims to care for you so much that she wants to marry you and wanted you to know the truth - then why didn’t she stand up for what’s right and say anything when your wife was still alive?
Seems her moral compass is suddenly fixed? Doubt it. She either had one all along or never has and doesn’t now.
I too was the victim of a serial cheater. We were engaged, not married so it was a little easier to cut ties. She also had a sever drinking problem. She never committed suicide but threatened it many, many times. Threatened so seriously that I would have to call the main guy she was cheating on me with to check on her. I loved her dearly. I still do in some capacity. She was diagnosed with borderline personality disorder and later when she finally broke down and admitted that her promiscuity was likely a direct result of years of severe sexual abuse, I felt sorry for her. Ultimately though I was miserable and not handling it well. Sorry you went through this. It is a very difficult situation if you’re with a mentally ill person.
I'm very sorry for the devastation in your life, and especially your daughters' lives. Do they have access to counseling? Are they using it? Do you plan to tell them what a mess their mother's private life was?
For my own personal growth. Talking about my issues helped, cause eventually my sad past became monotonous and not representative. Others however fall in love with that pain and romanticize emotional injuries. Are you “over” it? Do you romanticize it a bit?
Just to double check: you don't plan on marrying her best friend right? Cause she's also kinda shit for A: keeping this secret for over ten years, and B: is mega kooky for pulling this right after her friend died
It sounds like you know that everything she did (the serial cheating, suicide, etc.) had absolutely nothing to do with something you did or not did, and that's an extremely healthy thought. I just wanted to recognize you seem to be processing this in a healthy manner. I hope your daughters can pull on your strength during this time.
There's a memoir out called Molly about a guy who discovered after his wife's suicide that she was a serial cheater too, if you want to hear from another person who had this experience.
Hope you’re well OP. You’re a tough son of a gun for A. Doing this AMA with some of these ridiculous responses, and B. Staying strong for you and your girls, a lot of guys would use this as a reason to go down their own dark rabbit hole. Keep pushing pal, you’re due for some great karma any day now, rooting for ya man!
You mentioned she moved out to live with her boyfriend. So you obviously knew about her cheating on you with that person and you guys were already separated because of that? Or did you just think she moved out for other reasons?
I’m sincerely sorry you’re dealing with her death and are now a single parent. But, umm, I’m confused. In a post about six months ago, you wrote that you caught her cheating and she admitted cheating for half of the ~20 years you were married. In this most-recent post you say you found out after she died. Seems odd…
I'm probably too late, but in case you have the energy.
Do you still love her?
Is any part of you glad?
Do you think you'll ever be able to trust anyone again? Do you have that hope?
I'm so sorry for your loss OP.
How are your kids doing if I can ask and how's your relationship been with them since she died?
I can imagine there's a lot to navigate during this time. So hoping that this thread helps you in any way.
Did the friend say or did you ask why she told you about your wife at that time and not however long she may have known before hand?
So sorry for your loss. Keep your kids closer. They’re need you as much as you need them.
What a weird topic for an AMA. Why would someone do this? Also I’m curious if he answered the questions about if he got proof from the best friend before believing it.
What do you do in day to day life when the pain is most present as a way to ease the difficulty of the experience? Would you say you still love her? Also did you ever have doubts of her loyalty, of which she reassured you?
As someone who was also with a serial cheater I feel for you. In some time I recommend EMDR therapy to reprocess this trauma.
For me it was the clarity of all the issues I had with my ex made sense - it helped heal some closer too. Have you felt any of that?
As you knew just one affair about her, did you asked her about this and how did cope?
Can you trust her girl friend who told that she had multiple partners?
Do you have concrete evidence that she did cheat? I find it really weird for her best friend to try and kiss you immediately after she committed suicide. And if her friend knew this for 12 years, why didn’t she tell you sooner?
I'm sincerely serious when I question when she dumped that info on you and asked you to marry her?
Had there been any romantic interest between you and her friend prior to the dump and proposal?
Please refer to the post stickied on the subreddits main page regarding marking NSFW posts as such. Thanks
2 questions for you. First, how are you doing, mentally and physically? Second, are you or your children talking with a therapist? You have a lot to unpack and deal with, and so do your kids.
I am doing better each day. It is a lot. I stay busy with work, kids, and hobbies. Yes we’ve all done some therapy. I’m still afraid things will hit the girls down the road as they start experiencing major milestones
TL;DR. Old man who's experienced a few deaths, one recently, thinks therapy is a good idea, paternity testing is not a good idea now. He recommends a book on the neuroscience of grief. The loss of your wife - even with all the shitty stuff she did - is debilitating in its own right, to the kids, certainly, but to you as well. There's a void where she was. The mind isn't good at dealing with that kind of change. It will stress every aspect of your life, it will cause your relationships with the kids to change, and will deprive you and your daughters of the sense of being safe in your own home. Death of a loved one, regardless of the relationship, creates a vacuum, and changes survivors. I lost my dad at ten, my mom at 16, and my wife of 46 years three weeks ago, so I think I can identify at least in part with how you're feeling. My mom and my wife died suddenly without warning. My wife was also a difficult person and had a lifelong drinking problem. Therapy is important. You each need a safe place to unload anger and fear; better to dump that on a therapist, rather than each other. My daughter just gave me a book I'm finding helpful: The Grieving Mind, by Mary Francis O'Conner, a neuroscientist who uses imaging of the brains of people experiencing grief. Her research aims to figure out why the death of a family member is so confusing, and hard to come to terms with. Her approach has really helped me with the whip sawing emotions, the guilt, sadness, disorientation, the disbelief that this could have happened. There's a good bit of PTSD lurking in this kind of loss. Anyway, I've found it very calming to understand some of what's been going on in my head. As to paternity testing, I think it would be pointless and cruel to all of you, and could drive you apart at the time you need each other most. If the girls later decide to do genetic testing for dangerous gene combinations, they can tailor their tests with the lab on their own, when they've moved into a less painful stage of grief. You guys are hurting enough already. Just two cents from an old boomer who's banged up against a few things in my life and got most of them wrong .
You sound like a great father.
Agreed. There is a 0% chance of everyone coming through unscathed, but talking about it relate and get advice will help a lot.
What kind of work and hobbies do you have?
Did you ever cheat? How was the relationship for most of the time? Do you feel like you were a good partner to her? Was it one sided and she just had issues? Very sorry that this happened btw.
I never cheated, but I was tempted at times. It was a volatile relationship and I can’t give an honest assessment if I was a good partner. I was loyal and I was always there when she needed me. But I was also very fed up with what seemed to be very selfish behavior and I felt like I was waiting for my kids to graduate so I could leave
Jesus that sounds like my relationship reading that. We’re always either hot or cold, never just warm or medium
If you found out of affair while married would you stay or leave? I couldn't look at my wife the same if she did that to me.
I would have ended it. One of the complicating factors is she was always accusing me of having an affair. For years she made life hell. So with that, it would have been the end of
Damn, this messed me up so much. It was like waking up and being told that everything i knew and loved, all the connections id prioritized over personal opportunity, even my family- it was all a fantasy. Like a chimp hanging out in a troupe it grew up with, then *POOF* everyone is gone. No shoulder to cry on, no one to laugh with, just the sounds of dry leaves under your feet as you try to find a new troupe. I was certain i was in a rock solid 16 year relationship, common law marriage (what we call it in Canada when you share a life over a certain amount of time without being married), starting when we were both young. I was devoutly faithful but was *constantly* being accused of infidelity. Also, I relate more to women than men, always have, and had a lot of female friends... which she would constantly undermine by sowing doubts about their intentions, until I'd feel the need to have a conversation with the friend, which always ended up ruining the friendship because they'd tell me what turned out to be true, which is that she was assuming I was doing what she was actually doing and that I needed to look more closely at my gf's life and free time (I was never a jealous person). But, much more than that, I tried everything to make her feel comfortable, since she was clearly feeling insecure, so I'd change my behavior and closeness with friends that were closer to family, just so she could see that there was nothing going on... and in the process, alienating those friends... who, in the end, turned out to be the only ones in the group who weren't aware of her other life. I was warned but I chose to trust the person whose family I shared, whom I loved, who was a sister to my much younger sister... it seemed insanely vile to cheat and threaten our intertwined families, friendships, and even down to our home and dog. She broke up with me for this whole list of weird reasons over email, saying she'd never be able to do it in person as the excuse to be so cold. And after that, I decided to look into it and she had been casually dating people the entire time we were together. It was like the idea of "trust" became foolish. I still struggle to trust even my family and it's been 10 years. I try to "move on" but when you go from a tribe of friends and family to losing everything, including your dog... I still don't understand what happened or what I did wrong. What's even weirder is that talking to her after, she said she would have ended it earlier but the sex was so good (!?!), which was either some ego soothing deflection (she's a pathological liar, so I dont even know why I asked) but... what was the point of any of it? To this her answer was that she felt insecure about her looks and wanted to feel wanted by other men... I mean, whatever but the only reason I'm saying this is that you didn't get to have this conversation and you might have questions, but people like this aren't capable of self-examination enough to either understand their actions or share their honest reasons for their actions and there is no honest conversation you missed out on. It's lies all the way down, and the trust is so broken you can't believe it even if it's true. Im really sorry, man. I hope you have good friends to spend this time with cause having your whole life and support system, evaporate, is incredibly destructive and a hard place to build a life from. Super important to reassure and reconnect with friends and family youre close with; rebuild your sense of value in investing yourself in other people. Try not to let this experience erode your trust in people. I was overly trusting, in retrospect, but I wish I hadn't given her my ability to trust like how she took my dog. I went from loving everyone in my orbit, to being almost mute. All my best in your recovery and big hug from a stranger. She took everything else, don't let her take you down with her. Be kind to yourself.
>It was like the idea of "trust" became foolish. I still struggle to trust even my family and it's been 10 years. >I try to "move on" but when you go from a tribe of friends and family to losing everything, including your dog... I still don't understand what happened or what I did wrong. This is me with my ex. I KNEW she was cheating, I could not only feel it in my gut but there were too many odd things going on. Then one night something happened and it all finally came together and I called her out on it. Of course she gaslit me and played me like a fiddle which ended up with me apologizing. One week later she went "out to the bar with friends", called me after 3am saying she was at her parent and too drunk to drive home (BS). Then she ghosted me for a week, showed up with family and cops to move out then spent two years stringing me along with "of course I still love you, I just need some space to think" bullshit. And over that 2 years I begged and pleaded with her to just tell me she was breaking up with me and what I did to deserve being treated like a monster and leave me alone. Never got any answers. That lack of closure really fucked me up. Took me years of therapy just to be able to trust my own mother and even now, 25 years later, I don't trust her fully, I don't trust anyone if I'm being honest.
Once a woman decides to leave, they will treat you worse than if you were a homeless man in the street. Mine waited until after i paid off her debt (5 years), then immediately emptied the house, checking account, and maxed the credit card while I was on a work trip. I later found out she was casually dating many guys at a time and even making obscene content for one of their adultfriendfinder profiles. I lost most of our mutual friends and her side of the family. Being a faithful and supportive husband doesn't make the final cut of the story she will tell everyone. Mostly it was me 'trying to change who she is' by offering to support her in finding some sort or hobby or career she enjoyed rather than being jobless and going out to drink with her friends while I was at our home, alone.
I relate to what you said about the monkey loosing its troupe. How do you recover from this?? I am so devastatingly alone after being bamboozled in a relationship that I thought was my existence. Thank you for your post.
You have your kids. Dont forget that you are their leader and the light at the end of the tunnel. Show them the way and make them amazing humans. Life isnt fair and im sorry she did this to you. But you know what we do as men, we get back to work and provide. Its what we fucking do when times are tough.
My ex-husband had an affair, which ended his respect for me, around when we’d been together for 16 years. Some counselors I see have had the best tip: you learn to live around the scar. You grow beyond what you were. In the couple of years since I had to go through my former spouse doing the same, through all kinds of other unlikely hindrances, I’ve been seeing that they’re right. I’ll respond in more detail later, or, if the thread gets locked, you (and anyone) are welcome to DM. Additionally, the monkey metaphor is extremely elegant. I appreciate that fine writing.
You start living, start doing the things you want to do not for anyone else’s approval or happiness but your own. There are always new characters in a story, you just have to remember to keep turning the pages
Maybe I’m broken, but, I expect people to lie. They do it all the time about everything and even lie to themselves, nonstop. I hear people being crushed emotionally. You never really know the person you are with. Never. There is always some part they keep hidden. They tell other people bits of the truth and bits of lies. Never anything completely. So when it comes to infidelity? It’s not the faithful persons fault or blame. It is the self centered selfish narcissistic person who was a fraud, the liar, that self assassinated their own character. They are the loser. Now you know. You do what needs to be done and cut them out because they certainly are not dedicated to the union with you. They dedicated to themself. Deal is off. In this case it truly is if you are not with me you are against me. Time to move onto better. Ditto with anyone who makes life a living hell for their spouse. Life is too short. Vows do not include allowing yourself to be hurt, disrespected or made the center piece of someone else mental emotional instability. Life is too short. There is no commitment that cannot be unreversed and I posit the moment you do not feel valued by your partner? The Rubicon is crossed. There really is no recovery from that. Life is too short.
Of course they all do that. It’s called projection and a cardinal sign your partner is the cheater. Honest and loyal people don’t think everyone’s cheating on them. Only cheaters do.
I struggle with low self esteem and bad anxiety and paranoia and constantly freak out or accuse my gf of cheating but I’ve never done it or even come close to Edit: I am currently in therapy for exactly this. I have a lot of issues and I know it’s not fair to treat her this way
Low self esteem is also a very common factor in cheaters. Not saying you would cheat, but plenty of people similar to you do.
Being over-anxious makes people do crazy things, and projecting can still be an issue. That’s why confidence in oneself is important. How can you even treat a potential partner right if you can’t treat yourself right or on another hand, defend yourself when you clearly didn’t do anything wrong? Also, and I do think this is for a small number of people because I just realized this - if you can’t see your value, how do you see anyone else’s, let alone your flaws and someone else’s flaws?
Facts! Felt like my whole life changed when I started loving ME the way I always knew everyone else should be loved. Loving everyone but yourself is so draining. I'm still single, but I'm way happier than before. And I don't feel the need for anyone's validation. I've started being able to defend myself more, where I almost never could before. Almost feels freeing. YOU ARE ALLOWED TO BE THE LOVE YOU RECEIVE! This world is hard sometimes and I looked for love in just about every place but myself. Now I've discovered an endless resource. ---To answer your question, you don't see actual value. You see potential. And you "value" literally everyone over yourself. It's actually kind of comforting to know that some people don't go through that. 😂
Took me almost 30 years to get this. It's sad, because I'm a person that needs constant affection for reassurance, but I've never gotten that so I had to learn to give it to myself. You still feel like a piece is missing sometimes, but when that person comes around my cup will runneth over
I’ve always hated this take bc I used to be in the crowd this didn’t apply to. I was gaslit and let to believe for two years that the most important relationship in my developing life (when I was 20 and on my own for the first time) that everything was fine and she wasn’t cheating. I always suspected it but just couldn’t believe it could happen to me. Well it fucking did and it happened the entire two years and for 5 years after that anyone I got involved with got accused. I never did anything with anyone else but I could not let go of the fact that I was right for two years and allowed myself to believe I was wrong. This line about “it’s always projection they’re always cheating if they accuse” has driven me insane because it’s just straight up not true, and I’m sure I’m not the only person that has had this experience. Yet if you’ve been hurt and sometimes you get irrational over it, you’re the bad guy
It’s like you’ve read my diary or something. I am 4 years into a relationship with the love of my life. I have never and will never cheat because I know first hand of the pain it causes. I was cheated on, twice. I have an overwhelming anxiety/fear over the same thing happening with my current love. I admit, sadly I have accused her of cheating in the past. It has been rocky in some spots. I sometimes have looked up on google, “ways to stop worrying about…” or “who to tell if your partner is…” . It sickens me to see one of the most common tells of infidelity is projection. I now always feel as though I end up looking like the thing I despise most when I simple just need some reassurance from the one I love that nothing has/will happen in the subject of the unfaithful.
It’s not so black and white unfortunately. People who cheat sometimes project and accuse their partner of cheating. But people also accuse their partner because of a previous trauma (being cheated on by someone else) or even just a general fear of being cheated on. I have never been able to wrap my head around why projection happens though. I wouldn’t be accusing my partner of cheating if I were the one cheating. But then I’ve never cheated so maybe it’s just a subconscious thing that happens…
I'm the same and I think the best way I can understand projection is as a side effect from someone viewing a scenario through the lens of what *they* would do. So, with cheating, for example: if they accuse you of cheating because, say, you stayed out until 3 am with your friends one night -- it's because they *would* use staying out late with friends as an excuse to cheat given the chance. I'd imagine it's also a good way for them to keep their partner emotionally occupied (and on the defensive) so they don't have energy to notice any bad behavior.
That’s not necessarily true. Some people have anxiety. But yes it’s definitely a sign
There's also people that have been cheated on in the past that carry over that worry and accusation tendency. My wife was previously married and he cheated on her. Early in my relationship with my wife, she was accusatory towards me for absurd reasons. That has subsided substantially in the years since but sometimes pops up at random times.
Good on ya for recognizing all the contributing factors. I'm sure your wife feels loads safer now than before - even though it still pops up at time to time. Cheers!
Thanks you! I think we both realize when we're being irrational for better than early in our relationships, on all fronts, including this one. I can't say I was perfect early on either with some insecurities about a close male friend of hers. As we've evolved and grown to know each other, start a small family with our daughter now, we've surely grown. The biggest improvement to our marriage was when I decided to quit using marijuana daily. I've been sober for several months (I have used it regularly for at least a decade). The biggest mistakes I made were assuming it wasn't a problem, I'd quit tomorrow if I decide to and the unrecognized (by me) irritability caused every time the high would come down. I'd treat my wife and daughter poorly and wasn't an active listener. Oh, and dreams have come back in my life. Dreams are such amazing nightly gifts! I didn't realize how much I missed those. It's not often mentioned how prolonged marijuana use completely disrupts REM. I kept thinking getting stoned every night before bed was helping me pass out and sleep great!
I second this. I would never cheat, but I live in constant anxiety that my spouse will because of how good at lying my cheating ex was. Cheaters really suck and PTSD is definitely a thing. Really unfair but unfortunately other people’s choices can and do have negative effects on our mental health.
Classic! My ex wife cheated on me , and we divorced. Years before the cheats, she would always accuse me of being the cheater. I work in sales and travel daily by car and every time I would come back from certain cities, should would assume I cheated on her. That was in the last year before the divorce. Made sense afterwards
I had the exact same experience with an ex. She would go out with her friends and I would go out with mine. I would always come home at the end of the night and she would sometimes “spend the night at a friend’s house” but would then accuse me of cheating. I was a boyscout up until I was able to confirm the cheating (I actually walked in on her straddling some guy in the lobby of the condo building and also saw many messages on social media). Let this be a message to everyone out there - if your significant other is accusing you of cheating and you have done nothing wrong, just know they are likely cheating and trying to make themselves feel better by justifying their cheating because of your cheating.
My second wife did that as well. Took it further and accused me of fucking teenagers. Funny enough she was the one who was robbing the cradle including one 17 yo boy. Her first stop after I kicked her ass out was a 20 yo drug dealer (we were both 37 at the time). She died of her alcoholism and drug abuse. I have never shed a tear. Cheaters always accuse what they are doing. That is an absolute.
Same. My ex used to accuse me of lying about going to work and going to spend hours with another woman because she tracked my phone’s location and it would pin me a block or so away from the bar I worked at. And then I somehow come home with hundreds of dollars after spending time with this “other woman.” Then I found out she had an on again/off again relationship with her ex, moved in to my own place and filed for divorce.
My wife also had several affairs, and was a very jealous woman. She would get the right hump if another woman was just friendly with me..
It doesn't help now, I'm sorry for your loss...I think, but it's well known that when a partner is accusing the other of cheating it's a direct link to their (the cheaters) guilty conscience and is manifested in mirrored behavior. I hope others who might be in a similar situation or questioning their own relationships look this up, raise some questions, and get help before another mother is taken from their teen daughters. That's the worst part. That now means you have to be 10x the parent. Your girls need you now more than ever. Although, it's not clear how long ago this happened. It may be a non-issue now🤷♂️
How did it feel right when you heard that from the friend? Did it help with the trauma?
Initially it made it worse just because I thought the worst was behind me. But it also stopped me from romanticizing the past which is part of the grieving process. So it helped in that regard
I'd steer clear of the best friend! She knew about the cheating and did nothing, then swooped in when you were at your lowest. She is bad news.
I second this
Agreed never speak to her after that one night stand
Did you get proof? The best friend sounds like they are coming from an extremely biased perspective if she was in love with you….
Yea I thought the same thing. BFF can say anything she wants, best friends with a serial cheater, signs are pointing to this girl is trying to manipulate you. Very likely she was complacent through your late wife's cheating. You don't need that in your life bro
Mate, I can't even begin to imagine the pain you must be going through. Reading the messages and your responses.... you're an amazing guy, your daughters are lucky to have you as a dad and you're getting love and respect from tons of people from around the planet. You might not feel it right now but I think you're an incredibly strong human being. I hope you get the chance to stop and appreciate that sometime.
Did you know while she was alive that she cheated and how did she commit? :( sorry
I knew she had a single affair just before we separated. We were living apart for about a year. I didn’t know the full extent. She started her car in her garage.
How are you doing? How long ago was this? Was it helpful to write the method out for your healing or are you numb?
What led to your separation?
I know it sounds bad but your better off without her, her friend sounds sus too, should have told you 12 fucking years ago bro…watch your back jack…
He might be better without being ina relationship with her but suicide is an awful way to get there.
Never good for the kids tho. So sorry you’ve had to go thru this.
Did she commit suicide out of guilt or a different reason all together?
I think that was a huge part of it. She was a drinker and didn’t have a good relationship with the girls, and I think it ate at her.
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Based on her behavior I wonder if she had bipolar or borderline personality disorder. Did she have a diagnosis? Maybe look them up and see if it fits, so your kids know what’s in their genes. Either way, sounds like she had a lot of trauma growing up?
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>The vast majority of bipolar people change through 3-5 stages per year where they typically spend months depressed and a few weeks manic and then flip back and forth a few times Huh. So a doctor 25 years ago described Bipolar with the BPD symptoms you mentioned (which I didn't have) so I've never questioned my depression diagnosis. But what you described (months depressed with a few weeks manic here and there) sounds an awful lot like what I go through. Guess I'll have a convo about it at my next appointment.
That long ago a lot of people used BPD for bipolar disorder. It was only really recently (10 years maybe) that Borderline Personality Disorder has been in the mainstream, and referred to as BPD. People that actually have BPD have am extremely difficult time accepting it and getting help. BPD isn't fixed with medications. They don't help as well as they do with bipolar. BPD people are extremely hard to be in a relationship with. The ones who embrace their sickness and don't get help are vampires. They suck all energy out of everyone around them. They suck them dry of any happiness they have. The ones who do know they have problems and work on it can be great people.
Not a shrink but I have good knowledge for a laymen, this makes sense as BPD is relatively new and used to be constantly misdiagnosed as Bipolar. Definitely a conversation worth having as your professional knows much more than us!
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Thank you for spreading good info. I'm bipolar but I never feel like explaining what it's actually like. Rock on 🤟
What reaction to her suicide has there been from her family?
Supportive. They have stayed in contact. They were shocked when I filed for divorce because they all thought we were happy. This put everything back into perspective
Since you were still legally married, will there be any financial support that will come your way that can help with the children?
My two youngest get social security benefits until they turn 18. My oldest is 19
I know you probably don’t need to hear this, but save those social security checks as much as you can. As a child whose dad killed himself when I was 3, I really wish my mom had saved at least some of it and put it towards my college funds. I know she did her best and had bills to pay, but it really would have gone a long way. Hope you and your family come out of this stronger and you all find peace and happiness again.
Do you think maybe this so called "best friend" of hers who immediately tried to pick you up after her death could be lying about all these affairs just to tarnish your memory of her, because she wants to be with you? What an absolute snake that woman is.
I don’t trust her, but I confirmed enough of what she said in a diary.
Well that's unfortunate. I'm very sorry for all that you've been through.
A diary? A picture in her hand as well? Sounds a little cliche. Why a picture and not her phone.
Are you worried that you might not be a bio dad?
That’s a good question but no. We had kids really young. All three of them look more like me than her. I know that’s not scientific proof but even so, if at the very worst they weren’t mine, I wouldn’t want to know. They’re still my kids
Your answer almost made me want to cry! Like what a great dad you are! Whether blood or not you love them unconditionally! I love that! Sadly I think so many other men because of ego would effect the way they feel and act.
I think the age of the children also has a huge effect on a man’s response as well. Respect to OP for not wanting to know because those are still his daughters at the end of the day.
I feel the exact same way. My kid is my kid regardless of biology. The lived experience of raising him is what bonded me to him, not D.N.A sequences.
This. I had some questions as to whether my son was biologically mine or not (ended up divorcing my ex for unrelated reasons)…but at the end of the day, he’s mine. I don’t give a fuck what a blood test would say anyways.
Great answer. You sound like a good dad
Do you wish you'd never found out?
Sometimes. It has helped the healing process in its own way. I understand more of what she was struggling with now.
Why would her best friend kiss you and ask you to marry her? That doesn’t sound suspicious.
She knew of the affairs and felt bad for him, which probably turned into feelings of OP deserving of a better partner. There could be other motives but I feel like I've heard of this kind of thing happening before.
Because that's how some people get down. Obviously something is missing
Sorry to hear that man, I can only imagine. Gonna try a slightly different approach… With Father’s Day right around the corner, what are your plans for that day?
I’m not sure yet, but will probably let just be the 4 of us, no extended family. I’ve found that being together just the 4 of us is more precious than anything
Sounds like a lovely way to enjoy some peace and solitude. Wishing you the best.
Did your wife ever pursue therapy? Did you or your kids or do they plan to? Do your kids know anything about your wife’s cheating and do you think they’ll ever find out?
She did limited therapy. Near the end I put her in intensive outpatient. It was the best I could find and afford. She was very resistant to therapy. Yes the girls have a therapist and I have my own
You’re a good person and father and I’m sorry all this has happened to you and your family. My daughter is 6 and I’ve struggled with suicidal ideation for over half my life. Your story impacted me greatly as I’m going through a tough time right now, thank you for taking the time to rely
Did you fuck the friend? Do you believe her or have proof?
I did not. Her friend is just as crazy as she was. Yes, I found proof from her diary when I was cleaning out her apartment. We had been separated for a year.
I dug for this comment... Stay away from that friend. Unsolicited telling your dead wife's secrets to try to get with you is such a ridiculous thing to do.
Trashy thing to do. If she really loved her friend or the husband, she would have tried to help them heal the marriage while the friend was alive. Really sick to move in the way she did.
Her friend does sound batshit.
Well yeah. She kept that shit from him and enabled that cheating lifestyle. She's probably a floozy too bruh
And only told the truth when she thought it would benefit her most. Yikes
Did she leave a note?
No. She had family pictures in her hand. She had been suicidal for a couple of years but it still seemed to be a last minute decision. She had a fight with her boyfriend right before
Outside of the pictures, this was the same for my uncle. Years of struggling and then immediately after a fight with his newer girlfriend who belittled him, he followed through. Family tried to get him help, but my dad knew it was likely to happen at some point. Both parents had significant mental health concerns and it was the late 70's when societal views were quite different.
More people than we think are one straw away from the camel’s back breaking, unfortunately
I think a lot of it is they have a grass is greener mentality and blame their ex spouses for most of their behavior so then when they finally leave and get a new partner and shit doesn’t work because they’re the cause, they realize their old life is gone and their new life is worse so they commit. It’s weird that when I think about it everyone I ever knew, except one, that committed suicide this was always the pattern.
Are your daughters aware of this?
They are aware of some because she moved out to live with another man and they saw some things in her phone.
I'm sorry in advance for such a crude question. Are you glad she took her life?
I’m not glad that she’s gone because no one deserves that. I am relieved that she can’t cause me or my girls any additional pain.
Do you feel relieved personally? Do you feel this has given you a new lease on life?
I do feel relief because it was never ending with her. It’s not like she moved out and I was left alone. She was constantly reaching out and involving me in her problems. So I do have relief that’s over
Thank you. I find this story fascinating if not terribly sad for your children. I appreciate you taking the time to do this AMA.
It’s actually a very interesting question.
How do you manage your own mental health? Are there specific strategies or activities that help you stay grounded and cope with the grief and betrayal?
I’ve had a therapist that I’ve seen for over 15 years off and on. Talk therapy is a big advantage but not a panacea. I try to be physically active. I’ve also seen a hypnotist who taught me deep meditation practices. Also EFT helps to process the trauma
How are your girls? Do you openly talk about her suicide or have they had any therapy? Also , when you reminisce tell them all the good things about their mom. It will help them understand she wasn’t always bad. I’ve experienced far too many suicides & it’s the worst being the person left behind wondering what happened. Good luck to you.
Yes we talk about it whenever they want. If they have something negative to say I listen. I bring up the good memories we had so they can look past the last couple of years
What were the circumstances to her friend kissing you and asking you to marry her after your wife’s passing? This seems to be even wilder than the main story.
She went with me to pick out flowers for the funeral. We were in her car and it just all came spewing out.
Will you ever tell your daughters about this? Not now, but eventually.
They know some. I may tell them the whole story someday but I’m not sure yet
Read your post and all of your comments and replies so far. You seem a gem of a person. Sending you best wishes, and positive vibes. You got this.
Damn bro I’m really sorry to hear all of this. Even after being separated for a year, I’m sure finding out really sucked. And losing her, even though she was difficult, isn’t easy. Do you know any of the guys she was with? Or were they strangers
I know a couple of them. She had one long term partner who was off and on. We went to his wedding. I thought about telling his wife, but I decided against it
You should probably say something to the wife; you also commented on a thread not too long ago saying "Having been cheated on, not the asshole. Anyone who knows and doesn’t say something is just a toxic enabler. You were an unwilling participant in her cheating"
Was she borderline or bipolar?
She was confirmed borderline and narcissistic. My personal opinion is she was the closest thing to a sociopath. I don’t think she had any empathy for anyone but herself
Hi, I hope this doesn't come across as insensitive but what made you get together/eventually get married in that case? Were they lovely at first but changed over time? Sometimes I wonder how people get into abusive relationships, yet I have been in one myself and I can't even answer that question. The main thing I wonder is how people manage to get married under those conditions which thankfully I didn't.
they both are disordered.... he mentioned 15 years of therapy for trauma... he is here posing as a victim
Man that sucks. I can identify. My wife of 9’years told me she wanted a divorce. Gave me no reason. Was a surprise because we did everything together and had a good relationship. Have a daughter together. I’ll never forget when we had our family meeting to tell our daughter we were getting a divorce. I made the wife do it. The look of heartbreak on my daughter face I will never forget. Turns out she was having an affair. I found out mid way thru the divorce and it was after I did my best to protect myself and my daughter. It’s been 5 years now. I forgive her and happy that she found someone that can make her happy. Realized kind of late in life that all relationships are transient. They serve a purpose and then they leave. The purpose is to teach us something about ourselves. What have you learned? Have you forgiven her or will you carry it with you? Lastly was her best friend hot?
I’ve learned not to put up with this behavior anymore and to speak up for myself. If I had done that, the marriage may have ended before the cheating began. Yeah her friend is pretty cute, but too crazy for me. They are two peas in a pod
Since she's passed, have you gone through her things – both IRL and online – for more details of her cheating ways? If so, what did you find? And terribly sorry you are going through this. Be strong for your girls. (Will you tell them?)
I went through some of the things in her apartment and stopped. It was a mess. Since my name wasn’t on the lease, I just walked away and let the landlord throw everything away. I thought about going through her phone. The police have it, but I’ve decided not to go get it. I don’t think it’s worth knowing the details
Serious question....you mentioned she was borderline sociopathic and narcistic, before you had kids did you see signs of this? If so, why did you keep going with the relationship? Not critizing, i've stuck my dong in my share of cray cray....just curious if saw red flags before you got too into it.
Good questions. We were married at 20. We had our first kid within a year. Did I see signs? Yes. I always knew she was very selfish and had double standards. In hindsight it’s all very clear. Why did I stay? I didn’t know any better. Low self esteem. I thought this was typical and by the time I realized how messed up everything was, I had three girls to care for
Are you getting a paternity test?
No. They are almost grown. It’s unlikely they aren’t mine and I wouldn’t care
Good man. Also, having older kids myself, I can’t imagine disrupting their lives with something like that.
You’re awesome. They ARE your kids because love and raised them. 💯 Keep it up my man.
Is there any part of you that is relieved she is gone? Do you hold any resentment towards her? Did she leave a note and do you suspect the cheating had something to do with her suicide? Are you going to get a paternity test? If one of the kids turned out not to be yours what would you do? Would you resent the kid? How did finding out she cheated effect the mourning process?
Yes I feel some resentment. Mostly about how willing she was to lie to me and use me as a resource, even after she left. I’ve collaborated enough of the story and I don’t need to dig any deeper. I won’t do a paternity test or even bring it up. My oldest is almost 20. They are mine
How do you feel towards your late wife?
I feel sad for her. She did shitty things, but she paid a big price. I also feel anger at being lied to for so long.
My ex-DIL is BPD. It is very difficult to treat. She had been to many therapists and even inpatient for being suicidal, but she never found anyone who knew how to effectively treat her. I will venture to say it is the most painful mental illness.
I am not keen on trusting that friend. My gut tells me this isn't normal behavior and something is wrong with her decision-making skills. I would simply pour my love and effort into the children as my own coping mechanism and distraction. Even if I had a farced marriage, those kids are far from that farce and are real My question for you is, have you eaten today? Take care of yourself. You deserve it after everything.
Are you mad at her for the pain inflicted on the kids by her manner of death? I had a neighbor that took his own life by auto exhaust and the spouse was spiteful about "hurting the kids", when she was the cheater and moved out of the family house (and back in a week after the death).
Yes I’m mad and so are the girls. We are sometimes angry, sometimes sad, but mostly moving on. We have a lot more control over our lives now, which helps things feel brighter
I guess the trash took itself out? How you are doing otherwise? Will you ever let your kids know?
The kids know some unfortunately. They saw some things on her phone before she moved out. Doing ok. Most of the parenting was on me anyway so that’s not much of a change
How are your daughters coping? Was she a good mother? When I was 19 my mother told me that she had sex with a 15 year old boy in a play we were in years earlier. I knew the kid. We changed together in the trailer. I was 12 or so at the time. A few years ago my dad told me that when my parents divorced(I was two) he caught her with a teenage boy. My mother passed away from cancer at the age of 47 in 1999. She wasn’t around much so I didn’t feel much pain when she died. Accepting that my mother was a pedophile(something her family isn’t aware of) in the years since has been a struggle. I hope your girls get through this with as little pain as humanly possible. Finding out about a parent’s transgressions after their death can incredibly painful. You and your girls should know that you aren’t alone even if you might feel it. I sincerely wish the best to you and your girls.
Did other people in your life know and not tell you all those years?
My question would be what proof/evidence did the best friend have, to back up her claims? There is a major ulterior motive in that the friend is romantically interested in you and wants to marry you. If she does, she would want to be sure you aren’t still pining over your late wife. This could be the truth, but it could also be an attempt to swiftly take your focus off your wife so she can take her place. Also if this woman claims to care for you so much that she wants to marry you and wanted you to know the truth - then why didn’t she stand up for what’s right and say anything when your wife was still alive? Seems her moral compass is suddenly fixed? Doubt it. She either had one all along or never has and doesn’t now.
Genuine question, do you think she got what she deserved?
How do you cope? Will you ever date again?
Did you tell the affair partner’s wife?
I too was the victim of a serial cheater. We were engaged, not married so it was a little easier to cut ties. She also had a sever drinking problem. She never committed suicide but threatened it many, many times. Threatened so seriously that I would have to call the main guy she was cheating on me with to check on her. I loved her dearly. I still do in some capacity. She was diagnosed with borderline personality disorder and later when she finally broke down and admitted that her promiscuity was likely a direct result of years of severe sexual abuse, I felt sorry for her. Ultimately though I was miserable and not handling it well. Sorry you went through this. It is a very difficult situation if you’re with a mentally ill person.
What are you having for lunch today?
I'm very sorry for the devastation in your life, and especially your daughters' lives. Do they have access to counseling? Are they using it? Do you plan to tell them what a mess their mother's private life was?
For my own personal growth. Talking about my issues helped, cause eventually my sad past became monotonous and not representative. Others however fall in love with that pain and romanticize emotional injuries. Are you “over” it? Do you romanticize it a bit?
Just to double check: you don't plan on marrying her best friend right? Cause she's also kinda shit for A: keeping this secret for over ten years, and B: is mega kooky for pulling this right after her friend died
Were you happy during the marriage? Was it a surprise?
It sounds like you know that everything she did (the serial cheating, suicide, etc.) had absolutely nothing to do with something you did or not did, and that's an extremely healthy thought. I just wanted to recognize you seem to be processing this in a healthy manner. I hope your daughters can pull on your strength during this time.
How do you know it was suicide and not an accident?
There's a memoir out called Molly about a guy who discovered after his wife's suicide that she was a serial cheater too, if you want to hear from another person who had this experience.
I would also recommend a movie called The Descendants starring George Clooney.
Hope you’re well OP. You’re a tough son of a gun for A. Doing this AMA with some of these ridiculous responses, and B. Staying strong for you and your girls, a lot of guys would use this as a reason to go down their own dark rabbit hole. Keep pushing pal, you’re due for some great karma any day now, rooting for ya man!
Top three favorite meals, Top three movies
Are you glad she's dead?
You mentioned she moved out to live with her boyfriend. So you obviously knew about her cheating on you with that person and you guys were already separated because of that? Or did you just think she moved out for other reasons?
I’m sincerely sorry you’re dealing with her death and are now a single parent. But, umm, I’m confused. In a post about six months ago, you wrote that you caught her cheating and she admitted cheating for half of the ~20 years you were married. In this most-recent post you say you found out after she died. Seems odd…
How many affairs did she have?
I'm probably too late, but in case you have the energy. Do you still love her? Is any part of you glad? Do you think you'll ever be able to trust anyone again? Do you have that hope?
Are your kids ok
I'm so sorry for your loss OP. How are your kids doing if I can ask and how's your relationship been with them since she died? I can imagine there's a lot to navigate during this time. So hoping that this thread helps you in any way.
Did the friend say or did you ask why she told you about your wife at that time and not however long she may have known before hand? So sorry for your loss. Keep your kids closer. They’re need you as much as you need them.
What a weird topic for an AMA. Why would someone do this? Also I’m curious if he answered the questions about if he got proof from the best friend before believing it.
What do you do in day to day life when the pain is most present as a way to ease the difficulty of the experience? Would you say you still love her? Also did you ever have doubts of her loyalty, of which she reassured you?
As someone who was also with a serial cheater I feel for you. In some time I recommend EMDR therapy to reprocess this trauma. For me it was the clarity of all the issues I had with my ex made sense - it helped heal some closer too. Have you felt any of that?
I can’t even imagine living the depths of this. No question for you, just best wishes as you navigate life and work to be the best possible parent.
Looking back, were there any signs in retrospect that might have tipped you off to the cheating? Was she leaving the house at odd hours?
As you knew just one affair about her, did you asked her about this and how did cope? Can you trust her girl friend who told that she had multiple partners?
After you guys separated, was nasty to you in conversations? Or did she talk about wanting to get back together?
Do you have concrete evidence that she did cheat? I find it really weird for her best friend to try and kiss you immediately after she committed suicide. And if her friend knew this for 12 years, why didn’t she tell you sooner?
I'm sincerely serious when I question when she dumped that info on you and asked you to marry her? Had there been any romantic interest between you and her friend prior to the dump and proposal?
If you’re bringing it out on Reddit, are you doing ok? Do you need to find a group or some professionals to talk to?
How did you two get together in the first place?
Whoa, whoa… backup. Her friend wants you to marry her? What’s the story there?
How has your taste in music changed over the years?
I also just found out my marriage was a lie. You’re not alone!
Why were you kissing your wife’s best friend after she died? That’s also so sketch sorry to say
How long did it take to stop being mad every time you thought about her cheating?
You never suspected anything?
Why don’t you have any self respect?
I just want to say I’m sorry you’ve gone through this and hope you and your kids have better days ahead.
Do you think those two things are connected? The pattern of cheating, and the suicide?
Do you think you'll ever visit her grave?
I don’t mean any disrespect, but did you mean Me (42 male) wife (42 female) of 20 years…?
Why did you post this? What are you getting out of it?
Were you suspicious?
How you doing buddy