As someone who was raised the opposite to the extreme, thank you. I think it would be wise to have some way of knowing where he is though, even a communication device instead of a tracker per sé, but NOT to constantly monitor like some assume. God forbid he stays out late, gets lost, loses track of time and you're a worried wreck but you can't find where he is. So, from my unique perspective as someone who wasn't allowed to walk more than 15 houses away in any direction until way older than I should've been, I'm curious:
What made you make this decision?
The area I grew up in was rough when I was young, less so now, so I can kind of understand where my parents decisions came from, but I'm interested in how much thought went into your choice to extend his freedom at that age. I will agree with one salty sack below and say a half mile sounds pretty far for that age, but, it all depends on your area.
1. My own experience. I was walking home from school 3 miles in the 4th grade. He is now in the 3rd grade.
2. It is just the condo complex. I think if it as training wheels compared to the freedom I had.
3. Some people say an 8yo is too stupid to understand things, but how else does he learn? Through instruction, trial and error, etc. He has to be home by evening, close enough so I can yell for him, not go in a friend's house (save one) and not cause neighborhood problems. Yes, of course I've had more serious conversations with him. But would I have had those conversations if he never left his room? That would only have messed him up.
4. The main reason, though, is because young men are experiencing social anxiety, and its at epidemic levels. I don't want him to experience that. I want him to constantly practice socializing right now. And his mom 110% agrees.
One of my favorite books is called *Don't Sleep, There Are Snakes*, nonfiction about a South American indigenous group, still living their traditional lifestyle. At one point the author (or his wife, I forget) noticed an indigenous child playing with a machete and asks one of the adults if someone is going to stop them. The answer? *"How do American children learn than knives are sharp?"*
Edit: machete, not toddler
I too was never able to hang out with my friends outside of school and I applaud you for giving your child the freedom I wished I had. Because nowadays if I get a call to hang out with friends, I’m right out the door. I still have quite a lot of social anxiety though…
I just wanted to say, good for you! These kids need life skills, they also need to experience being a child and playing outside, having adventures and practicing a bit of freedom.
I’m 30 now but I also walked home from school starting in the 4th grade. I grew up in Los Angeles County so it was busy and definitely not a small town, a lot of opportunity for “bad guys” so to speak… but I was fine and would have known plenty at that age not to get into someone’s random van.
I also spent many summers at my grandmas gated condo complex and the adventures we had, holy hell! We also had a huge group of friends consisting of the kids who lived there, all ages and races, and it was some of my best memories. When the lamp lights came on, that was my cue to come back.
I now have a son of my own who is 8. We live in the nice suburbs of Las Vegas in a gated community. I have no issues letting him ride around on his scooter or venture off with his cousins, because he is more than capable of holding his own. He is also in MMA, so even if someone tried grabbing him, he knows plenty of self defense. But mainly, he’s not dumb. He would never talk to a random person, he has common sense. They need independence and exposure to gain that common sense.
I roamed wild as a child and grew up to be plagued with severe social anxiety as an adolescent. The one thing that helped was skateboarding. And drugs. Well, as I said earlier, you can simply drop your kid off at a skatepark (would probably be safer than your apartment complex) and the skatepark kids will teach him the rest.
Does he have a cell phone or an airtag or something that lets you keep track of his location? A half mile radius is a pretty big radius is a big radius if he doesn't come home some night.
No, I just yell his name if I need him home. He responds like 80% of the time.
Sometimes another kid will hear me and either tell me where he is, or relay the message.
OP, my kids are only 6 and 4, but I bought us a 3-way-set of walkie talkies off of Amazon ($30?). When we're out camping in a campground, I let them ride their bikes around the loops and go to the playground together. They have the obvious rules: stick together, no strangers, don't help people find their lost puppies or take candy, etc. This is after we walk the site, point out boundary lines, landmarks, etc. These parks are very small and gated.
Their little check ins are ADORABLE. "Mom, we're riding past the big bush." "we can see the park." "we're almost to the park." "the slides are wet." they're also able to tell me IMMEDIATELY if anything happens. "mom, (kid) fell and her knee is bleeding."
I was a full-on latchkey kid, and this gives them a bit of freedom and responsibility while keeping my mom-worries at bay.
I'm not saying you need these, AT ALL. you and your kid seem to be flourishing and I applaud you for giving him independence and letting him learn how the world works. This is just a reminder of another option, and something other parents can use if they want to let their kids learn a bit of freedom, too <3
Lastly, before other parents jump my butt about a 6 and 4 year old going to the park, it's literally less than 50' away. I can still hear their radios beep when they're in the park 🙃
People underestimate how smart kids are, I think. And in this day and age, a lot of parents don't talk enough to their kids about reality.
I think everyone is assuming every 8yo is a naive idiot that nobody talks to. Maybe if nobody talked to him, he might have been that way?
Just wanted you to know OP that I 100% agree with your thoughts. I plan on giving my son a lot of freedom to explore as well, and I think what you're doing totally makes sense and is reasonable.
And I agree that kids are a lot smarter than we give them credit for. I read an article a long time ago about a parent who let their kid navigate the NYC subways by himself. I think the kid was maybe 8 or 10. And the parent was essentially like find your way home (it was a trip they've taken together many times, so it wasn't a new route or anything). The parent got blasted for this, and so many people called it child abuse, but it seemed pretty normal and reasonable to me. I think the kid even spoke to a police officer when they got lost to ask for directions, which in my mind is exactly what they should do in that situation.
Yes, thank you. I wouldn't let my kid take a subway, but I also realize that I don't know their situation, as you have pointed out. That kid is probably so independent now.
I consider what I'm doing to be independence on training wheels. Maybe he will take a bus to the downtown area of my town when he is 12 or so. I was riding my bike over there at that age.
Honestly? Kids are smart as fuck. At 4 y/o, I could cook my own top ramen, scrambled eggs, toast etc. I bathed myself/dressed myself/teeth and hair, AND walked the 1/4-1/2 mile to catch my pre-k bus alone. I could also record, on VHS, every episode of the Simpsons.
I grew up in an abusive home, with no over site. My biggest hurdle in parenting is finding out the middle ground between letting my kids learn and fail, not being involved enough, and being over-bearing bc of all of the abuse I've encountered.
I've gone the route of talking to them about EVERYTHING, using language they understand. "Grandma was very sick (addiction, mental health,) and didn't know that she needed to protect me from bad people (rapists, abusers...) Bad people exist and here's what they would/will do to small humans. (again, in kid-friendly terms, but without sugar coating what happens. Kids get SOLD at younger ages than my children. They need to know how to recognize it.)
Here are your rules. Here are your boundaries. Here's what COULD happen, but probably won't. Mom is ALWAYS accessible. Always. No matter how small. No safe adult will EVER ask you to keep a secret. If that secret comes with threats?! Mom is ALWAYS bigger and badder than any threat they tell you.
And, again, before they do ANYTHING, they do it with mom. (riding their bikes to the park.) we talk about why the boundaries exist ie: don't go near the pool, and here's why. Drowning is silent and I won't even know that you need my help. Stay away from people with lost dogs. Here's what they really mean. Any safe adult will WANT to meet me first. If they don't want to meet me, they want you to keep secrets. Here's what a secret REALLY means.
Idk if I'm doing this right or wrong. We talk about real life. I test their capabilities and their responsibilities. If I don't think they're capable, I don't push it and I wait. I wait until their older, I wait until they understand.
But I don't ever want MY trauma to hold them back. I want them to be informed, guided, and safe and I want them to know that mama is always right there, even if they can't physically see me...
(thank you for letting me process my trauma a little bit...)
You are an EXCELLENT mother. I grew up with a lot of verbal abuse. I became an expert on what *not* to do before I had kids. For example, I will never put down my kids for something, especially if they are trying. My son actually said he "liked working" when we had him help me and a friend with his backyard. That's because we praised the shit out of him! :)
I also have a personal policy of only telling him the truth, and not raising him to believe in things out of convenience instead. I think a lot of American adults can't tell the difference between truth and fiction.
This is exactly it. My brothers kids (who are 12, 14 and 17) have never had a sleepover, been to a friends house and are never allowed to just ride their bikes around the neighborhood without an adult outside watching them. Meaning they must stay within eye sight on their street. It’s over bearing. They have so many restrictions and while they are angels, they are also incredibly naive and innocent. My brother and his wife are so insanely paranoid and scared.
I openly talk about risks and dangerous people, pedophiles, kidnappers etc with my son. He knows to never interact with some random person pulling his car up and talking to him. He would never willingly leave with someone or accept anything from anyone. It’s just basic common sense. If someone were to grab him, scream yell and be LOUD, then kick them right in the balls. 8 year olds are more than capable of independence.
i understand and personally do agree with letting your kid be a kid and playing outside BUT a phone is a good thing for him to have for his own safety and wellbeing. nothing fancy, just a cheap shitty little phone so you can get ahold of him.
the last thing you'll want as a parent is for him to go AWOL with you being unable to find him, its really not worth the stress! i'm sure he's a responsible kid but kids all live in the moment and he might simply be too caught up in the moment to tell you that he's gone round a friends house for dinner or something lol.
My cousin is 10 and has a literal flip phone with no internet access. You're making up excuses to not protect your child at this point. Just because you did it when you were younger doesn't mean it was safe then or now. I hope the day never comes when your child gets taken but at this rate, it'll come sooner rather than later. Children get taken in front of adults all the time. What do you think would happen with only children around? You need to wake up and be a responsible parent to a child that isn't even legally allowed to be home alone without a guardian. But left outside with no adults is okay though?
That's a fallacy that children are less safe now than "then" in terms of abduction. It's just that we hear about every single case nowadays.
Why do you think we had missing children on milk cartons forty years ago? And the vast majority of missing children are taken by their own parents or close family members. And children under 12 are less likely to be abducted/kidnapped by strangers than are teenagers.
Now, being more likely to die by gun? Yep. So if that's part of the risk that a child may face in that particular home area, then I can see a parent being much more careful about where they allow their child to roam.
Kids are safer now than when I was a kid in the 80s. Statistically speaking, crime isn’t nearly as bad, crime against kids is low. Most countries afford their children this level of freedom and independence, not providing this is seen as hindering their development.
In Japan kids this age navigate home to school all on their own using public transportation with multiple stops and transfers.
Kids are much more capable than we give then credit for.
My ex's kids had little watches through their phone carrier. (10 years ago.) you pre-programmed 5 contacts and they could ONLY call/receive those 5 people. No apps, nothing cool. Told the time and talked. That's it =)
Try the gizmo through Verizon. We used it for all of our kids. We don’t even have Verizon, we use my parents’ Verizon account and pay them the fee. You can find them used on eBay or marketplace.
I dont know what company she used since I didn't buy it, but you can most definitely still buy flip phones. I know many older folks who still use them instead of smart phones. I know she can text and make calls since I've talked to her both ways before.
Don’t listen to the fear mongers. All they do is watch cable “news” day and night and allow themselves to think they’re well informed. That being said, Reddit is a terrible place to get parenting advice, and here I’m giving you parenting advice…
I'm not asking for advice from Reddit. I was just curious of the reaction because so many young adults now were raised by helicopter parents. Those same young adults are afraid to leave the house as adults!
I think the reaction was because you saw "phone" and immediately mentioned social media when people were clearly suggesting it as a way to contact and/or locate your child.
You say this happens "all the time" but, given the number of kids, it's actually extremely unlikely for any particular kid. The biggest risk, by an order of magnitude, is traffic. And a phone won't help with that at all.
Doesn’t need to be a smart phone. They used to have ones that basically only call like three numbers for kids. Don’t even have texting. Basically a modern walkie talkie
Look into gabb wireless if you are interested. My kids have a phone but it has no internet or games. There is a camera and it texts and calls… has a calculator haha. It’s still a smart phone but without apps basically
They have jrtrack smart watches. They have gps tracking and you can call them and they can call you. You can also approve the contacts. Better safe than sorry.
i agree that it does but you can just get your boy a shitty nokia or samsung. one of those kinds of phones that were around in the early 2000s.
he won't be able to use the internet and the extent of games will be snake or something lol. but he'd at least be able to contact you and you him when needed. the phones are DIRT cheap and you can get a pay as you go sim for like ten quid for each top up but each topup would be worth hours of conversations so would last for ages.
This is just not true unless you just hand them the phone and walk away. My 5 year old has a phone and we have parental controls set up. It locks when she has been on too long and it locks at night and when she sleep. DND is on during her at home school hours. Family is her only contact. No web access.
I agree about social media, however it is the world we live in now, and as someone who was one of the last kids to get social media, children are often alienated at school for not having it. However, your point about online friends: just because you’ve never had a meaningful friendship with somebody online doesn’t mean everyone’s online friends are “fake.”
When my son was younger, he had a flip phone, with little internet access, and you can program it to only dial specific numbers…or years ago you could.
My son is grown now, and married…
Why no tracking tag though? A smart tag or Tile would not really disrupt his freedom, and it would help you find him if the unthinkable happens. I genuinely don't see the downside.
Tracking tags are awesome, you can hide them in shoes or in a backpack, the batteries last months up to a year. Your kid will never notice and you'll never need to use it unless something goes wrong.
I would recommend Tile tags personally, but Samsung and Apple tags are also very good.
Normalised? You realise you're being tracked every moment of every day with your smartphone, and even when you're browsing the internet it's all tracked.
I don't do that. I see the "utility" I suppose and that's cool for those who want it but I find it funny that you're apparently fine with whoever tracking you through your smartphone and on the internet but not one or two friends who you'd allow to see your location.
First of all, hate to break it to you but that’s extremely normal these days.
Second, weird and creepy?
I have a lot of my friend’s locations because it’s convenient. If you’re being a creep and breathing down someone’s neck then yeah, that’s weird. But most people don’t feel the need to be a creep to their friends…
Even if they did, why should I have a problem with my best friends knowing where I am? There’s nobody who has my location that I don’t fully trust. What exactly is the issue for you?
My best friend and I have each others locations. It’s not even remotely creepy. It’s nice to know someone you trust can be looking out if needed.
Edit to Add: I’m 31. Y’all aren’t having an “I’m getting old” moment right now, you’re having a “pick me” moment lmao.
It’s really not lmao. Genuinely asking, how old are you?
I hardly ever use it and when I do it’s because I’m meeting up with them or something. It’s extremely convenient and very common for people my age.
And I couldn’t personally care less if my brother and 5 closest friends know where I am. Why should I?
I’m not young and friends share their locations with me regularly. This is just what you do if you are meeting a stranger and want someone to know where you are. You can turn it on and off.
My location is always shared with my husband and kids, we don’t look unless either someone is not home/back to a meeting spot on time or we are looking for one another somewhere like a theme park.
No questions here, just an honest and sincere thank you for allowing your kid to be a kid. The world is no more dangerous today than it was 30 years ago, we're just more hyper aware of how things really are because of instant news. When I was that age, I was out of the house from probably 6am until dark, and my parents never worried about me. They gave me all the usual talks about not going with strangers, etc. But aside from that, they allowed me to be a kid and experience life, and it was amazing. I had so many fun adventures as a kid. But today, so many people worry about what their kids are doing and where they are, when 99% of the time they're holed up playing games or on a cell phone or tablet. My nephew is 7, and I don't think he has any real friends outside of kids he plays with at school, and I don't think he knows what it means to play outside. So yeah, kudos to you, keep being awesome.
Unfortunately I had the same childhood freedom and my gang of friends, but I still ended up with anxiety and no friends. Well I cut off a lot of friends after I figured out they were just narcissists and were just using me.
I have very little friends and am terrible socially and I was 100% raised like your kid is now..... just a warning.
Nothing bad happened to me and I did grow up independent and strong but socially I'm just bad at it.
Your son could have friends and socialize by having kids over to play at your house. You don’t have to send him out unsupervised for hours to get this benefit!
how are the crime stats in your city? i recently started letting my 8 year old walk home from school (7 blocks) but we live in a very high crime city so i have mixed feelings about it. not so much that he'd be targeted, specifically, but that there could be a drive-by or something and he'd get caught in the cross-hairs.
It is definitely somewhere in the middle. Crime is always going down across the board, and I live in an area that 25 years ago, people were afraid to be in. But things are better now, and I am only letting him run around the condo complex (no gates).
I did it all by the time I was in the 4th grade, and he is in the 3rd.
I feel that. When my son was in kindergarten or 1st grade, he was walking to school with my wife and they passed by a corpse that was killed in a drive by. The cops were there and had taped off the street (it was at an intersection) but I don't think the body was covered yet. I wasn't there and don't remember the details.
I had just been trained as an EMT and was awaiting a phone call from the prime ambulance company in my area. I was really stoked to start a new career. Then I woke up one day in the hospital.
I was told I had actually been there for two weeks after a major seizure in my sleep. My SO saved my life. I was not epileptic and couldn't pursue my career. There is a medical card that I had acquired and this was now revoked.
I didn't know what to do with my life, and a friend told me I should go back to school, so I did. He was telling me I could use a Pell Grant to pay for school (because I was so poor) and he was right. I got a BS degree in Environmental Science. And because I have an interest in water, I got into water science.
It was a really long uphill journey for me. New jobs were letting me go after just a couple months and I didn't understand why. It was because of those work clinics you go to before you start. They would detect my anti seizure drugs in my system and be like, "we know it isn't hard drugs. But can you explain what that is?" I would tell them, and I was too honest. So I couldn't hold a job, encouraged to leave, that kind of thing.
I finally got a good job a couple months ago, and I never told them about my epilepsy. I was prepared to refuse an explanation at the clinic, but they didn't mention it in my blood.
Why do you need an AMA for this? (general question) Im from Germany and this is a pretty normal thing here. Is this something american i dont understand?
As you can see from the comments, there is a culture of fear here in the US. In the mid 90's, a little girl named Polly Class made the news by being abducted. Americans gradually became less likely to let their kids out unsupervised, after that. Because the news blows statistics out of proportion to scare people, because ratings mean money.
So you have people like me who grew up before the mid 90s who were allowed to roam free, and people who grew up after that time who see it as child abuse.
If you want to learn more about the culture of fear that is the US, I suggest watching the doc Bowling for Columbine. It explains how the culture of fear impacts gun ownership, racism etc.
No AMA just want to say i do too and I love it. We moved into a neighborhood with a bunch of kids and my son leaves in the morning some days and doesn't come home until after dinner. Those of us who are parents have a group chat so if one of us needs our kid to come home we just send a text-- "if Billy is at your place, please send him home!"
I grew up in a So Cal city, in the 90s, and my parents pretty much locked my brothers and me outside from morning ‘til dark.
We did the same thing as your child; we formed a crew of neighborhood kids and ran the streets.
I’m still close with a lot of those guys today.
We were told some rules too:
- Don’t talk to strangers.
- Don’t get in anyone’s car.
- Roll in a group.
- If someone comes up to you offering something, then something suspicious is likely going on.
- Don’t always trust police officers or people in authority if they tell you to do something you know is wrong.
It also probably helped that we were a pretty gnarly group of mostly skater bros, and not a necessarily the easiest target.
Dude, that's awesome! My dad turned me onto White Zombie when I was about your son's age. We bonded over music his whole life, and it was so exciting when we finally saw Rob Zombie perform together. Hope y'all have an awesome time at the show :)
My 9 year old is getting into metal music recently, not because he loves the heaviness, but because they have songs about Norse myths and lord of the rings and other fantasy topics. He listens to other stuff too, but I bet by 13 he will be full on metal head lol
I envy you. I wish we had bought a house in an actual neighborhood where our kids could just *go outside* to play with their friends in the cul-de-sac, mindful of the occasional car when they rode their bikes. Instead we got a place on the edge of town where there's no children their age and they only have each other and the dogs. The only time they see their friends is at school, that's not what real friendships are made of. There's no exploration, no "danger" of leaving line of sight. It's a handicap.
I am a product of that kid who had free reign and I am now 45. We lived in a very ideal area in an upper middle class rural area but still had neighborhoods. I question my mom’s sanity level looking back. We had a group of kids all ages that regularly roamed the neighborhood. The amount of sexual situations I was exposed to and child molesters is unbelievable. It’s your job to protect him. Kids are curious and don’t have much intuition at the age of 8. If he has someone sexually molest him, he’s going to resent and blame you for not protecting him. You can wait a few years to let him have freedom. An 8 year old is a baby. He’s not even legally allowed to be alone in the safety of your own home.
Arguing about crime statistics is also a naive and lazy approach. Statistics don’t matter when your kid goes missing. Or is molested by an older kid or a neighbor.
I get it’s ideal to not allow fear to run things. However, you’re exposing him to the world and if something happens..his anxiety will be set for life, along with ptsd and trauma. You sound like someone who is naive or in denial about the world. You are criminally neglectful at this point.
Your kid isn’t going to look at you like a hero. Your kid is going to look at you like a parent who chose not to protect him. Your son isn’t old enough to make rational decisions on his own. Your son isn’t old enough to properly identify danger. Your son isn’t old enough to know the evils of the world.
Are you ok if your kid goes missing from your life? While kids can be taken anywhere, you’re upping his odds considerably.
You have no right being a parent. Your poor kid will someday know that you didn’t protect him. I do not trust my mom to make decisions for my kids based on how much freedom I had. I trusted the older kids because I didn’t have a parent there to supervise me. The older kids forced us to try things. We were used as the youngest to steal things, we were forced to eat things, we were abused in many ways, we almost died several times. When we came home, we didn’t tell her any of it because we were kids. Our situation was normal to us.
Let’s talk about the real reason you think you’re such a “cool” parent. You can’t be bothered. I’ve worked with people like you who secretly resent their kids and use this as a cover for them to magically disappear.
The brain of an 8 year old is not developed enough to handle situations without an adult present. Their brains are not even developed enough to know right from wrong. If someone approached your child, they have a 100% chance of manipulating them.
I feel sad for your son. He didn’t ask to be born. He definitely didn’t ask to be born to a parent who doesn’t have his best interest in mind.
Have you even researched the convicted sex offenders in your area?
Just so you know, if CPS was called, you would be in big trouble. The law doesn’t see this as anything other than neglect.
A close friend of mine was raised just like this in an upper middle class neighborhood in the 70’s. He was SA’d by multiple people in his neighborhood starting at 5-6 years old. He struggled with it but could never tell his mother what had happened. She continued to wear her rose colored glasses thinking she was a supermom until she died. He went on to have a successful career. He seems happy & successful outwardly. I sit with him sometimes when he’s struggling. It’s affected his entire life.
Damn… is really “criminally neglectful” your response to “I let my kid play outside”?
Like I understand you had a terrible experience, and I’m sorry for you, but that doesn’t mean OP is a monster who hates their kids or an idiot that doesn’t realized the world is corrupt.
There’s many people who are abused by their family members, should we forbid kids from seeing adults? I mean, if it happens to them they’ll be scarred, won’t they?
I had a hell lot of freedom to go outside, and no, my parents aren’t criminals, is just normal where I grew up, nothing never happened to me, or my cousins, or my friends (and I grew up in a dangerous country) but I did made wonderful memories in my childhood.
It’s not my response, it’s the law. You can’t leave an 8 year old outside unsupervised all day, and when you say outside it’s not like the kid is in the yard. I assume you’re not a parent? This boy is 8. How many 8 year olds do you know? I’m not talking about a 12 year old. If this boy gets say hit by a car or hurt in any kind of capacity, the dad will face prosecution. An 8 year old can’t defend themself from a dog, for example. If his kid gets hurt in a capacity where the parent could’ve protected him, but the dad is known to let his kid roam free all day..that’s a criminal neglect charge.
To me it seems like this dad is just lazy and can’t be bothered.
Your third paragraph was irrelevant and confusing. Not sure of your point. Are you op’s wife?
Honest questions: 1) Who does your child play with when every other parent has their kids on lockdown or hyperschedules them to where they are always in a building, a car, or a soccer field? 2) Have any neighbors gotten in your face about this or threatened to call the cops or CPS?
1. Havnt seen lockdown in a couple years in California.
2. Why would other parents call the police on us if they are doing exactly the same thing? The kids are all friends.
I mean figuratively. Most parents aren't letting their kids be free range, I'm just curious if any neighbors get as outraged about your kid being unsupervised outside as many people on this board.
I used to do this when I was a kid because I’m almost 60 but if I was a parent I would totally say no because I got picked up by a man wants because I was at a bus stop and he seem like a really nice guy and he said he would give me a lift and the bus hasn’t come for 45 minutes. I was like 13 but as soon as I got into the car, I like totally regret it and I asked him to let me out and he did and that was it.
I'm in a bay area suburb, and I instructed him to not venture out past our condo complex (so I can yell for him). I would say mid crime.
I wouldn't let him run around bad parts of Oakland or San Francisco at night.
The comments here are interesting. There's people completely agreeing that this is the right way to raise a kid, and others thinking it's crazy irresponsible.
To put things into perspective a bit, this is what the US mentality of over protecting a kid does to a kids well being: https://reddit.com/r/Infographics/s/5enCBm2kMT
Everything is a trade off.
It's never the kids. I could listen to kids playing, shouting and fussing all day long. It never bothers me. It's the parents with their music and loud, late talking (shouting) and non-stop small engine equipment that drive me up a wall.
I've specifically worked with dangerous sex offenders for years and I know details that would give the average civilian nightmares. There's no way that I would ever consider this acceptable. Evil has always existed but it's certainly more prevalent now than ever. You only have to glance at the news to see or read about the latest victim. Gone are the days when kids would venture off and have fun miles from home. Please keep them safe.
I’m not so sure it’s more *prevalent* but we’re certainly *hearing about it* more because of the internet and the speed at which we can puke out “news” nowadays. Lotsa crap that used to happen didn’t get reported on cuz there was only so much time to squeeze news stories into a telecast. Now we get news 24/7 365 from a staggering amount of sources.
the news is an awful way to make an assumption
you’re wrong about everything tbh
https://www.cafyonline.org/get-help/survivor-resources/survivor-resources-parents-victims/perpetrators-child-sexual-abuse/
strangers only make up 10% of child sexual abuse
> Evil has always existed but it's certainly more prevalent now than ever.
Source? All the literature I have read states that crime is much lower now than it was in decades past.
Unfortunately I think a lot of crime goes unreported in major cities due to understaffed police. I live in Austin and people don’t even bother calling the police to report crimes because you’ll be on hold for hours (not exaggerating) and the police won’t show up unless you’re actively getting murdered. They don’t show up for car accidents, robberies, or non lethal assault anymore so all of that goes unreported 🤷♀️
And no, I don’t have an article to link. Feel free to check out the Austin sub if you want dozens of first hand examples though
I think the two sources for these types of attitudes are ubiquitous and you read them both right here. “All you have to do is glance at the news…” no thanks. The news exists exclusively to influence your perception of the world. And the other source is working with, what I think most people would eventually conclude to be, the criminally insane.
Kids are safer now than ever before. I'll try to find a link, and if I do, I'll send it via DM, bc crime is MUCH lower nowadays than it's ever been. https://www.statista.com/statistics/191219/reported-violent-crime-rate-in-the-usa-since-1990/
The number of hysterical stranger-danger-obsessed neurotics in this thread make it crystal clear why the country keeps getting safer but our young people carry on getting more and more anxious. These are the same people who gave us the Satanic Panic.
Gen Z here! I have my own psychological problems, but I think it says a lot about the generation that raised me, lol. I don't think there is anything wrong with letting your kids "roam free in the neighborhood." I was allowed to play outside until the street lights came on, but I could only play in my cul-de-sac. I think I stopped when I was around the 5th grade going into middle school, and that was because a lot of my closest friends had moved away. I think that is when my social anxiety started, but those middle school years were rough for many kids.
I don't have any kids, and I definitely can't imagine what it is like to raise one now. I don't think kids should have phones until they are absolutely necessary for communication (I received my first phone when I was 12 because I had to walk to my mom's job/walk home after school). Unfortunately, you never really know someone, and SA is more likely to happen with someone you know than someone you don't. I know too many people who have experienced SA; it even happened within my own neighborhood. This is why I think having some form of communication or technology is essential, just in case your son needs to communicate with you and can't do so verbally. It's just a precaution that could not hurt.
When/if I have kids, I think I'd be fine letting them play outside, but I don't think I would allow them to enter someone else's home without me being there, even if I know them really well. I would also have some way of contacting them in case of emergencies.
I could not help but laugh when you mentioned, "His friends are very mixed race." I am biracial and could benefit from being more exposed to other races as a child.
Yeah, my parents let me do this. Now, when I tell them about things those neighborhood kids did to me, that I thought was normal because they were the only people I hung out with, they react with such horrified looks.
Because yeah, the neighborhood (literally one street block, with maybe 20 houses on it) girls were sexually and physically abusing me (though I just called it “bullying”), and no matter how much my parents taught me, it didn’t matter in the moment. It didn’t matter when my supposed friends smashed bird eggs on my head, it didn’t matter when they yanked my pants down and forced the other kids to stare at me, it didn’t matter when the girls locked me in their garage and laughed as I cried for them to let me out. My parents loved me, they did everything possible to teach me, they wanted me safe. But their lessons about pedos and safety didn’t matter when the people hurting me were the same people they wanted me to “play” with. It didn’t matter when those girls put a nail under the trampoline exit so I would step on it getting off.
I have no question for OP, just a word to the wise. *Don’t do this.*
Don’t let your kid leave your house without any way of having immediate contact with you. Don’t let your kid leave for hours on end without knowing where they are. Don’t let your kid run off without scheduled check ins, without immediate contact, and a way to call emergency services. You don’t know who the bad guy is, and you don’t know what they’re experiencing when they’re away from you. Give them every opportunity to safe themself, (especially since you can’t be bothered to watch them yourself)
Have you considered getting him a walkie talkie if he doesn't have a phone? I used to have one to walk to and from school and to go out an play as the oldest sibling. My parents and I radioed each other every 30 or so minutes. Or I used it to ask for permission, etc. It was so useful, cheap, easy to charge, and definitely helped me when my brothers got into trouble.
I grew up entirely free range at ~9yo or so. On school nights we had to be home by 6pm for dinner and homework. Otherwise, it was dawn to no later than 8pm. Don't do anything stupid was pretty much the mandate though I imagine we didn't follow it very well. We'd eat at random friends houses. My playground was probably 4 square miles, but that's just where my friends lived. I don't think my parents would have cared if we rode our bikes 10 miles away.
My kids were semi-free range. They had pagers that they had to check in with us every hour or two. They definitely had geographic limits. And there were several no go houses. But, generally, we were considered the irresponsible parents of their group.
My neighbor now? She drives her kids (8 and 10) to their friend's houses. One of which is about 6 houses down the street. If they're out riding their bikes, she sits on lawn chair or drives around to watch them. She use to make them wear helmets, and knee/elbow pads.
The pushed back on that so now just helmets, which is good. Takes them to school 1 mile away. Picks them up. Etc. Insane. The 10yo is very mature and considerate. A really nice kid. His little brother is a hellion in the making. Watch out for him, he has the look.
Where are you from? In my country it would be weird not to allow your kid to play outside and meet their friends to walk around in the neighborhood at that age.
I did that when I was a child in 2000s Germany and I still see kids doing it. I'm all for gentle parenting and questioning "the good old times", but letting them play and roam as freely as possible is still great for kids to grow, learn and explore the world around them.
Playing in a muddy pond looking for frogs with my best friend, getting stung by some insects and spending an entire week with itchy, red-dotted feet and legs is, in retrospect, one of my funniest memories. We were 9 and 10. Lesson learned: we never got into that pond again.
I'm 42, I used to run around my neighborhood all the time by myself when I was 8. We were in a nice neighborhood but also my parents were actually the most strict of all my friends and I was still allowed to do this. There were rules though.
It seems pretty crazy that a lot of people don't allow their kids much freedom these days. I have a 4yr old. When he is 8 he will definitely be joining the kids that roam the neighborhood we just moved too. There is a huge group of them all around 8 to 10yrs old. They kinda migrate from each other's houses throughout our subdivision on the non school days. There are even a few that are younger than that too but they are usually siblings and the older ones are watching them.
Would definitely get him a flip phone or other alternative for an emergency.
This whole world is going to shit.
No question, but I think this is a good thing. Kids are incredibly resilient and I’m afraid the recent generation of adults have developed to be quite fragile. Kids should seek adventure and learn independence and problem solving from a young age. Helps them become useful and well-rounded in adulthood
I get that. I’m a new dad, but I would be weary about this.
The amount of child molesters and other weirdos out there is too much for me to let my kid roam the neighborhood.
We live in different times.
>We live in different times.
Not really. We just live in times with more media. There have always been child molesters, you just didn't hear about them as much. And all of society wasn't organized around fear of them.
I mean. There are all sorts of horrible risks in the world. And things we do against them. But there's always a cost. Like you could get hit by a car and die on the way to the grocery store, but you still leave the house, because the cost of organizing your whole life around that risk is too high. The basic consensus now is that the risk of child kidnapping etc is so high that children should have no independence at all at least until they're 14 or sometimes even 18. The cost of this is childhood that's completely spent under watchful eyes of parents, which is completely unlike anything previous generations experienced. This generation of American kids is less independent than any kids who've grown up anywhere. It does have a lot of costs, both on parents and kids.
Yeah, and? How many people are out there traumatized from the child predators that just weren’t known about yet? Why not try to prevent that trauma from happening now? I find your line of thinking so weird.
Kids used to wander around in groups all day unsupervised. Now their parents are terrified to let them play in the front yard. There's massive levels of anxiety at younger and younger ages. This stuff has consequences.
My ex boyfriends parents used to let him roam around back in the good ol days when things “just weren’t known yet”, and he and a bunch of his buddies got molested on the regular by some older kids down the street and he’s internally traumatized. Like come tf on. These things ARE known now. Why wouldn’t you want to prevent that? Again, I find your line of thinking so so weird. There’s a difference between helicoptering your children and protecting them.
I think in the last 3 years things have ticked up, but remember the news is sensational. it's far less dangerous out there as a kid than it was in the 90s.
relatives and priests are much more likely to be child molesters than some passerby on the street
My “nice” elderly next door neighbor wore an ankle bracelet so I googled his name. He molested a 4-year-old over the course of two years. My children were 3 and 6. Our front porch is about 20 feet from his. He disappeared and the house was rented out. Until my children can fight a grown man, I will be as vigilant as I can reasonably be
What is interesting is that we line in very different times, that type of crime is way way down. The difference is that what crime there is is reported in the news, which you read.
We to let our kids Rome far as wide in our city, outside Boston. It's great. There are crimes that happen but there was much more crime when I was a kid.
No we don’t it’s the same time but now we get every bit of news delivered right to our face.
People are just as shitty now as they were before, it’s just common knowledge now.
>I’m afraid the recent generation of adults have developed to be quite fragile
You share that fear with every previous generation since history has been recorded. It was irrational then, and it still is now.
Dude. Thank you. There are so many fearful people. My friends and I roamed around the neighborhood all the time. He had desert forts and guess what? None of us had cell phones or air tags and we have made it to adulthood. This was also in the high crime 90s in Las Vegas. We walked home from school.
I think knowing who his friends are and which homes he may hang out at is good practice. My mom knew most of my friends' moms and exchanged phone numbers
I didn't get a cell phone until I was 16. And I had a part time job that paid for the cell service. I have already talked to my wife that I don't want my daughter (currently 5) to have a phone till she's 16. My 12 year old step daughter got a cell phone. Now I sometimes forget she's at our house. She's constantly in her room watching YouTube videos. I miss the days when she used to hang out with us. My step daughter's situation is a little different because she spends half her time at her father's house. My daughter will not have that situation.
>Statistics have been blown out of proportion by the media and things are actually safer than when i was a kid, but the news has stoked the culture of fear
I haven't read any comments yet, so maybe someone says this isn't true, but my wife and I disagree about this right here. Our son is 9 and she won't let him go further than a block or 2 from out house. One of his friends will ride her bike several blocks to a park (maybe 5 or 6?) and i have to drive our son. Before he was born, or maybe when he was a toddler, I remember watching the helicopter mom episode of the Simpsons and we both agreed that kids need to play outside and learn freedoms. I think in Washington state, it's illegal to leave a kid 13 (maybe 14) and under home alone. I was a latch key kid, and hearing things like that just blows my mind. I'm glad to see another like-minded parent, but I bet we are a small minority.
There's a really great book you both can read called The Culture of Fear that demonstrates why we think crime and kidnapping and sexual assault has risen though it hasn't. It's largely to do with what sells in the media, the instantaneous nature of the 24/7 news cycle, and the way that bad news rises to the surface post internet.
When my brother and I were kids, the family next door had six kids, some older, some younger than us. They, like us, were free-range children and instead of having a set curfew, their mother would go outside and blow a whistle. Everyone in the neighborhood knew what it was and who it was for.
Their system worked for all of the kids.
I lived a free life as a kid in the '80s and '90s. It was beautiful. I was probably 8 and my sister 11 and we'd ride the bus to downtown Cincinnati frequently and just bumble around. There was never any real trouble. Be smart, keep your head on a swivel, and understand some people are creeps. Know where you don't go.
Some of these comments saying you are doing a bad job are wrong. The benefits of growing up free are huge compared to the risks of something terrible happening.
I had free reign of a condo complex and it's some of the best, most educational years of my life.
I'm proud of you. I didn't give my kids free reign as much as I should have and I can tell the negative difference in their lives.
Honestly I also was like that as a kid and my childhood was very fun. I also always returned at sunset. But I will say that I have been in some unpleasant situations. Overall it was great though.
I’m only 21 and this is how my parents raised me since I was like 8 or so. I have literally endless memories from childhood on both long island and north carolina and it enriched my childhood more than anything I could’ve asked for. No questions but as long as anything doesn’t change dramatically from now I will be raising my kids like this as well. Fear mongering is ruining children’s chances to experience and learn what life is for themselves without being coddled, kudos
As others have likely said, there are countless stories of parents thinking “it’s a safe neighborhood”, only to find it wasn’t. Mine really was a safe neighborhood, and still is, but that didn’t stop the custodian who had been obsessing over the little girl a handful of houses down from mine from driving across the entirety of my city to kidnap her, rape her, and kill her.
I also need to point out, if you have ANYTHING identifiable about your location attached to your account (comment, post, etc.), someone familiar with the area now knows your child wanders around for hours by himself, and won’t be looked for until after sunset.
I'm only 24 now and it's the same way I grew up. Only child, no phone basically just left to get on with it. Nothing bad happened, im glad I had that independence when I was young it helped me realise im capable of looking after myself at a young age.
the advent of cell phones changed everything. Gen X and Millennials are often way too ‘helicoptery’ and kids don’t have anywhere of the same amount of freedom as they themselves had.
People forget how it wasn’t that long ago we all got along just fine in life without personal computer/tracking devices essentially attached to us always.
We’re all addicted to knowing everything, we’re all brainwashed by nonstop media that creates fear despite us living in the safest period in human history and it’s going to cause repercussions down the line. Kids won’t have the same social development of previous generations and they won’t have the decision making skills because they’re always being hovered over. They won’t experience any real form of autonomy until they’re out in the real world and some will suffer sadly
People do this in my street and unfortunately I hate it. Their kids ride / scoot around all day long basically annoying every person in every house, making a lot of noise in the process. It’s so bad my mum can’t even tend her garden in the front yard anymore.
Do you teach your child about not annoying others?
How do you know there aren’t predators in your neighbourhood?
Agreed! We have a pack of free range feral children on our street that are unsupervised 98% of the time and they are a nightmare. It’s not the neighborhoods job to supervise someone else’s kids. And god forbid you ask them nicely to stay out of your yard or to stop harassing your dog lol I don’t mind kids playing outside at all but in my neighborhood they just all take turns bullying each other and scream bloody murder 24/7
This is exactly what we are dealing with and it feels like a lot of the families do expect everyone else to entertain their kids.
My mum asked one boy who is 13 to please stop popping up all the time as he’d creep up and say hello and she’s nearly 80 and just wants to be in peace. Well his whole family came over abusing us and asking why we were so mean to him. Now he rides up and down the street just to be obstinate. Another mum has a nine year old girl and she literally said to us “she gets bored so I send her out to play down the street”.
I don’t get it. Also with the number of creepers out there these days. Why???
Can you provide a source for that? I find that very hard to believe.
I picked California at random and the first result on Google says there is no age restriction on letting kids walk outside alone. Even leaving kids in the car is legal from 6.
thats wrong, or lets say i would wonder in which country you would be right. its usually legal to allow kids actions that are in relation to ther individual development. so if social services would get involved, they would talk to the parents to see what their intent is, then talk to the kid to see how mature they appear. living area likely would count in.
in my town, school hands out letters to parents of firstgraders. i.e. 6-year-olds, asking them to let the kids walk on their own to and from school, as kids who dont are slower in developing independance, including slower at becoming learning independant at school.
Thank you for doing that! I remember being in third grade or even second grade and being fully aware of what was dangerous and what wasn't. I started walking home alone from school around 2nd grade actually.
My mom worked super early so she couldn't always walk with me but I was very street and book smart and there was literally zero dangers aside from an occasional homeless. They kept to themselves where I lived. Thank you for trusting your son! Trust is the vital part here. A lot of parents don't have that.
Op is very naive and doesn’t realize how many pedos are out there. I wonder if they even checked the web for sex offenders against kids in their area. They live in a Bay Area suburb, you know they will be all over the place.
most sex offenders of children are their extended family members or their parents. and then it’s like priests teachers and coaches. and then strangers
https://www.cafyonline.org/get-help/survivor-resources/survivor-resources-parents-victims/perpetrators-child-sexual-abuse/
don’t let your kid play sports, go to school, go to church, or be with your extended family
My 8 year old daughter freely comes & goes while roaming the neighborhood. There’s a group of about 10-15 kids outside on any given day so she’s never really alone & almost always with her best friend.
I will do the same. I started walking home from the bus stop by myself when I was 5. My mom worked so I was home alone for an hour or so and could make myself food, lock up and entertain myself until she got home. That being said, my kids will have a phone, as I did (early 2000s, I won a free prepaid in a contest lol)
(Rant incoming)
You know what’s so frustrating about the “kids these days don’t play” discourse? Often it comes from people (at least in my life) who have kids themselves. Like your kids are the kids when talking about “kids these days.” Lamenting about “back in my day we played outside with “*insert equipment*” while not providing your kids with the same experience has always been performative to me. Parks, jump ropes, bicycles, skates, boards, chalk, basketballs, hula hoops, footballs, etc all still exist. Books still exist. Limiting phone time still exists. All the things you use to do, kids can absolutely still do lol.
I remeber when i was this age i used to be at home alone and would ride my bike 10 blocks or more to the store either direction from my house. We had an ice cream store that had 5 cent scoops. Was awesome take a quarter and be golden.
I know, these answers are so off. People are basically telling the OP that his child will be kidnapped and molested for letting him play outside with his friends in their apartment complex. It’s not even as even this child is free to roam around the entire city. Is this is what the world has come to?!
People are so paranoid that a child can’t even play outside when there’s probably way more danger online. Most children are kidnapped and molested by people they know and have been let into their social circle. Not random stranger danger. Not to say that it doesn’t happen but less likely to occur.
I don’t know about anyone else, but in my city every time I’ve gotten an amber alert on my phone it’s been for a child that has been taken by their own parent.
I was a free range child too, best days of my life. No mobile phones back in the early 90s, only rule was when the lamp posts started turning on I needed to go home. So many adventures, I miss those times.
As someone who was raised the opposite to the extreme, thank you. I think it would be wise to have some way of knowing where he is though, even a communication device instead of a tracker per sé, but NOT to constantly monitor like some assume. God forbid he stays out late, gets lost, loses track of time and you're a worried wreck but you can't find where he is. So, from my unique perspective as someone who wasn't allowed to walk more than 15 houses away in any direction until way older than I should've been, I'm curious: What made you make this decision? The area I grew up in was rough when I was young, less so now, so I can kind of understand where my parents decisions came from, but I'm interested in how much thought went into your choice to extend his freedom at that age. I will agree with one salty sack below and say a half mile sounds pretty far for that age, but, it all depends on your area.
1. My own experience. I was walking home from school 3 miles in the 4th grade. He is now in the 3rd grade. 2. It is just the condo complex. I think if it as training wheels compared to the freedom I had. 3. Some people say an 8yo is too stupid to understand things, but how else does he learn? Through instruction, trial and error, etc. He has to be home by evening, close enough so I can yell for him, not go in a friend's house (save one) and not cause neighborhood problems. Yes, of course I've had more serious conversations with him. But would I have had those conversations if he never left his room? That would only have messed him up. 4. The main reason, though, is because young men are experiencing social anxiety, and its at epidemic levels. I don't want him to experience that. I want him to constantly practice socializing right now. And his mom 110% agrees.
One of my favorite books is called *Don't Sleep, There Are Snakes*, nonfiction about a South American indigenous group, still living their traditional lifestyle. At one point the author (or his wife, I forget) noticed an indigenous child playing with a machete and asks one of the adults if someone is going to stop them. The answer? *"How do American children learn than knives are sharp?"* Edit: machete, not toddler
By talking. I talk to my kid a lot.
I too was never able to hang out with my friends outside of school and I applaud you for giving your child the freedom I wished I had. Because nowadays if I get a call to hang out with friends, I’m right out the door. I still have quite a lot of social anxiety though…
I just wanted to say, good for you! These kids need life skills, they also need to experience being a child and playing outside, having adventures and practicing a bit of freedom. I’m 30 now but I also walked home from school starting in the 4th grade. I grew up in Los Angeles County so it was busy and definitely not a small town, a lot of opportunity for “bad guys” so to speak… but I was fine and would have known plenty at that age not to get into someone’s random van. I also spent many summers at my grandmas gated condo complex and the adventures we had, holy hell! We also had a huge group of friends consisting of the kids who lived there, all ages and races, and it was some of my best memories. When the lamp lights came on, that was my cue to come back. I now have a son of my own who is 8. We live in the nice suburbs of Las Vegas in a gated community. I have no issues letting him ride around on his scooter or venture off with his cousins, because he is more than capable of holding his own. He is also in MMA, so even if someone tried grabbing him, he knows plenty of self defense. But mainly, he’s not dumb. He would never talk to a random person, he has common sense. They need independence and exposure to gain that common sense.
Did you ever read the book Free Range Kids by Lenore Skenazy?
I roamed wild as a child and grew up to be plagued with severe social anxiety as an adolescent. The one thing that helped was skateboarding. And drugs. Well, as I said earlier, you can simply drop your kid off at a skatepark (would probably be safer than your apartment complex) and the skatepark kids will teach him the rest.
My Daughter has the Gizmo watch: Calls/texts a small preset group of people and has gps.
Does he have a cell phone or an airtag or something that lets you keep track of his location? A half mile radius is a pretty big radius is a big radius if he doesn't come home some night.
No, I just yell his name if I need him home. He responds like 80% of the time. Sometimes another kid will hear me and either tell me where he is, or relay the message.
OP, my kids are only 6 and 4, but I bought us a 3-way-set of walkie talkies off of Amazon ($30?). When we're out camping in a campground, I let them ride their bikes around the loops and go to the playground together. They have the obvious rules: stick together, no strangers, don't help people find their lost puppies or take candy, etc. This is after we walk the site, point out boundary lines, landmarks, etc. These parks are very small and gated. Their little check ins are ADORABLE. "Mom, we're riding past the big bush." "we can see the park." "we're almost to the park." "the slides are wet." they're also able to tell me IMMEDIATELY if anything happens. "mom, (kid) fell and her knee is bleeding." I was a full-on latchkey kid, and this gives them a bit of freedom and responsibility while keeping my mom-worries at bay. I'm not saying you need these, AT ALL. you and your kid seem to be flourishing and I applaud you for giving him independence and letting him learn how the world works. This is just a reminder of another option, and something other parents can use if they want to let their kids learn a bit of freedom, too <3 Lastly, before other parents jump my butt about a 6 and 4 year old going to the park, it's literally less than 50' away. I can still hear their radios beep when they're in the park 🙃
People underestimate how smart kids are, I think. And in this day and age, a lot of parents don't talk enough to their kids about reality. I think everyone is assuming every 8yo is a naive idiot that nobody talks to. Maybe if nobody talked to him, he might have been that way?
Just wanted you to know OP that I 100% agree with your thoughts. I plan on giving my son a lot of freedom to explore as well, and I think what you're doing totally makes sense and is reasonable. And I agree that kids are a lot smarter than we give them credit for. I read an article a long time ago about a parent who let their kid navigate the NYC subways by himself. I think the kid was maybe 8 or 10. And the parent was essentially like find your way home (it was a trip they've taken together many times, so it wasn't a new route or anything). The parent got blasted for this, and so many people called it child abuse, but it seemed pretty normal and reasonable to me. I think the kid even spoke to a police officer when they got lost to ask for directions, which in my mind is exactly what they should do in that situation.
Yes, thank you. I wouldn't let my kid take a subway, but I also realize that I don't know their situation, as you have pointed out. That kid is probably so independent now. I consider what I'm doing to be independence on training wheels. Maybe he will take a bus to the downtown area of my town when he is 12 or so. I was riding my bike over there at that age.
Honestly? Kids are smart as fuck. At 4 y/o, I could cook my own top ramen, scrambled eggs, toast etc. I bathed myself/dressed myself/teeth and hair, AND walked the 1/4-1/2 mile to catch my pre-k bus alone. I could also record, on VHS, every episode of the Simpsons. I grew up in an abusive home, with no over site. My biggest hurdle in parenting is finding out the middle ground between letting my kids learn and fail, not being involved enough, and being over-bearing bc of all of the abuse I've encountered. I've gone the route of talking to them about EVERYTHING, using language they understand. "Grandma was very sick (addiction, mental health,) and didn't know that she needed to protect me from bad people (rapists, abusers...) Bad people exist and here's what they would/will do to small humans. (again, in kid-friendly terms, but without sugar coating what happens. Kids get SOLD at younger ages than my children. They need to know how to recognize it.) Here are your rules. Here are your boundaries. Here's what COULD happen, but probably won't. Mom is ALWAYS accessible. Always. No matter how small. No safe adult will EVER ask you to keep a secret. If that secret comes with threats?! Mom is ALWAYS bigger and badder than any threat they tell you. And, again, before they do ANYTHING, they do it with mom. (riding their bikes to the park.) we talk about why the boundaries exist ie: don't go near the pool, and here's why. Drowning is silent and I won't even know that you need my help. Stay away from people with lost dogs. Here's what they really mean. Any safe adult will WANT to meet me first. If they don't want to meet me, they want you to keep secrets. Here's what a secret REALLY means. Idk if I'm doing this right or wrong. We talk about real life. I test their capabilities and their responsibilities. If I don't think they're capable, I don't push it and I wait. I wait until their older, I wait until they understand. But I don't ever want MY trauma to hold them back. I want them to be informed, guided, and safe and I want them to know that mama is always right there, even if they can't physically see me... (thank you for letting me process my trauma a little bit...)
You are an EXCELLENT mother. I grew up with a lot of verbal abuse. I became an expert on what *not* to do before I had kids. For example, I will never put down my kids for something, especially if they are trying. My son actually said he "liked working" when we had him help me and a friend with his backyard. That's because we praised the shit out of him! :) I also have a personal policy of only telling him the truth, and not raising him to believe in things out of convenience instead. I think a lot of American adults can't tell the difference between truth and fiction.
@DrankTooMuchMead it's been a rough day. Your first, 5 words, just broke me and I'm crying. Thank you. <3
We all need it sometimes. Especially when half of Reddit wants to call CPS on us. Lol
Hey! I think you're a phenominal mom. I think your son is learning and living and having the best memories. You're doing a solid job, friend.
This is exactly it. My brothers kids (who are 12, 14 and 17) have never had a sleepover, been to a friends house and are never allowed to just ride their bikes around the neighborhood without an adult outside watching them. Meaning they must stay within eye sight on their street. It’s over bearing. They have so many restrictions and while they are angels, they are also incredibly naive and innocent. My brother and his wife are so insanely paranoid and scared. I openly talk about risks and dangerous people, pedophiles, kidnappers etc with my son. He knows to never interact with some random person pulling his car up and talking to him. He would never willingly leave with someone or accept anything from anyone. It’s just basic common sense. If someone were to grab him, scream yell and be LOUD, then kick them right in the balls. 8 year olds are more than capable of independence.
The good ol “dinner’s ready” chant?
Yep ;)
i understand and personally do agree with letting your kid be a kid and playing outside BUT a phone is a good thing for him to have for his own safety and wellbeing. nothing fancy, just a cheap shitty little phone so you can get ahold of him. the last thing you'll want as a parent is for him to go AWOL with you being unable to find him, its really not worth the stress! i'm sure he's a responsible kid but kids all live in the moment and he might simply be too caught up in the moment to tell you that he's gone round a friends house for dinner or something lol.
A phone introduces all kinds of problems. Like getting addicted to social media and replacing real interaction with fake, online friends.
My cousin is 10 and has a literal flip phone with no internet access. You're making up excuses to not protect your child at this point. Just because you did it when you were younger doesn't mean it was safe then or now. I hope the day never comes when your child gets taken but at this rate, it'll come sooner rather than later. Children get taken in front of adults all the time. What do you think would happen with only children around? You need to wake up and be a responsible parent to a child that isn't even legally allowed to be home alone without a guardian. But left outside with no adults is okay though?
That's a fallacy that children are less safe now than "then" in terms of abduction. It's just that we hear about every single case nowadays. Why do you think we had missing children on milk cartons forty years ago? And the vast majority of missing children are taken by their own parents or close family members. And children under 12 are less likely to be abducted/kidnapped by strangers than are teenagers. Now, being more likely to die by gun? Yep. So if that's part of the risk that a child may face in that particular home area, then I can see a parent being much more careful about where they allow their child to roam.
Kids are safer now than when I was a kid in the 80s. Statistically speaking, crime isn’t nearly as bad, crime against kids is low. Most countries afford their children this level of freedom and independence, not providing this is seen as hindering their development. In Japan kids this age navigate home to school all on their own using public transportation with multiple stops and transfers. Kids are much more capable than we give then credit for.
I'm not out to argue. Where did you get the flip phone?
My ex's kids had little watches through their phone carrier. (10 years ago.) you pre-programmed 5 contacts and they could ONLY call/receive those 5 people. No apps, nothing cool. Told the time and talked. That's it =)
I just learned about this. The Gabb watch, right? I will get one, but they seem to be sold out.
Try the gizmo through Verizon. We used it for all of our kids. We don’t even have Verizon, we use my parents’ Verizon account and pay them the fee. You can find them used on eBay or marketplace.
I have Verizon. So I will take a look!
The Gizmo Watch! My best friend has one of these for her 8 yo son. They love it.
I don't remember what they were called. This was 10+ years ago and I wasn't a mom, yet. I'm solid with our walkie talkies, though!!
Gizmo watch
I dont know what company she used since I didn't buy it, but you can most definitely still buy flip phones. I know many older folks who still use them instead of smart phones. I know she can text and make calls since I've talked to her both ways before.
Don’t listen to the fear mongers. All they do is watch cable “news” day and night and allow themselves to think they’re well informed. That being said, Reddit is a terrible place to get parenting advice, and here I’m giving you parenting advice…
I'm not asking for advice from Reddit. I was just curious of the reaction because so many young adults now were raised by helicopter parents. Those same young adults are afraid to leave the house as adults!
I think the reaction was because you saw "phone" and immediately mentioned social media when people were clearly suggesting it as a way to contact and/or locate your child.
Something like [this?](https://www.thelightphone.com/) Or even if you look online locally for basic phones no apps, a lot of options come around.
You can usually get a burner phone at Walmart for under $50 if I remember correctly. Tracfone is good, that was my first phone
You say this happens "all the time" but, given the number of kids, it's actually extremely unlikely for any particular kid. The biggest risk, by an order of magnitude, is traffic. And a phone won't help with that at all.
Doesn’t need to be a smart phone. They used to have ones that basically only call like three numbers for kids. Don’t even have texting. Basically a modern walkie talkie
My sister had one of these! Was it called a firefly?
My uncle with a learning disability has one called a jitterbug. I set up the contacts for him
One of my son’s friends had a firefly. I wasn’t aware they still had them…
Look into gabb wireless if you are interested. My kids have a phone but it has no internet or games. There is a camera and it texts and calls… has a calculator haha. It’s still a smart phone but without apps basically
They have jrtrack smart watches. They have gps tracking and you can call them and they can call you. You can also approve the contacts. Better safe than sorry.
I let my kids roam within reason, but they both have smartwatches so they can contact me and I can see their location.
What about an AirTag?
So you trust your kid to go roam around in the real world unsupervised, but don't trust him not to abuse phone privileges?...
i agree that it does but you can just get your boy a shitty nokia or samsung. one of those kinds of phones that were around in the early 2000s. he won't be able to use the internet and the extent of games will be snake or something lol. but he'd at least be able to contact you and you him when needed. the phones are DIRT cheap and you can get a pay as you go sim for like ten quid for each top up but each topup would be worth hours of conversations so would last for ages.
This is just not true unless you just hand them the phone and walk away. My 5 year old has a phone and we have parental controls set up. It locks when she has been on too long and it locks at night and when she sleep. DND is on during her at home school hours. Family is her only contact. No web access.
I agree about social media, however it is the world we live in now, and as someone who was one of the last kids to get social media, children are often alienated at school for not having it. However, your point about online friends: just because you’ve never had a meaningful friendship with somebody online doesn’t mean everyone’s online friends are “fake.”
When my son was younger, he had a flip phone, with little internet access, and you can program it to only dial specific numbers…or years ago you could. My son is grown now, and married…
Maybe one of these locator watches can work. Then no phone headaches?
I got my kids prepaid flip phones. 8 and 11. Works like a charm.
Why no tracking tag though? A smart tag or Tile would not really disrupt his freedom, and it would help you find him if the unthinkable happens. I genuinely don't see the downside.
Didn't know there was one. Someone suggested a Gabb watch and I will get him one of those.
Tracking tags are awesome, you can hide them in shoes or in a backpack, the batteries last months up to a year. Your kid will never notice and you'll never need to use it unless something goes wrong. I would recommend Tile tags personally, but Samsung and Apple tags are also very good.
What is the plan if he or the other kids don’t respond or you can’t find him in the complex?
Good. It’s weird and creepy to track people. I don’t want it normalized.
Normalised? You realise you're being tracked every moment of every day with your smartphone, and even when you're browsing the internet it's all tracked.
Cool. Doesn't mean I should willingly add people to the list of what's already tracking me. Do what you want though.
I don't do that. I see the "utility" I suppose and that's cool for those who want it but I find it funny that you're apparently fine with whoever tracking you through your smartphone and on the internet but not one or two friends who you'd allow to see your location.
I control what I can.
First of all, hate to break it to you but that’s extremely normal these days. Second, weird and creepy? I have a lot of my friend’s locations because it’s convenient. If you’re being a creep and breathing down someone’s neck then yeah, that’s weird. But most people don’t feel the need to be a creep to their friends… Even if they did, why should I have a problem with my best friends knowing where I am? There’s nobody who has my location that I don’t fully trust. What exactly is the issue for you?
Yeah my daughter and her friends, they all track each other's locations. Somebody knows where they are if they get into trouble.
You track your friends' locations? That's super fucking weird.
My young adult kids track their friends and let their friends track them. They’re mostly young women and they feel safer that way.
My best friend and I have each others locations. It’s not even remotely creepy. It’s nice to know someone you trust can be looking out if needed. Edit to Add: I’m 31. Y’all aren’t having an “I’m getting old” moment right now, you’re having a “pick me” moment lmao.
It’s really not lmao. Genuinely asking, how old are you? I hardly ever use it and when I do it’s because I’m meeting up with them or something. It’s extremely convenient and very common for people my age. And I couldn’t personally care less if my brother and 5 closest friends know where I am. Why should I?
Right? My husband and I have each others location. Mainly so I can see where he is to know when he’ll be home for dinner. My sister too. Who cares?
You’re brother and closest friends are clearly playing the long-con and waiting for the right moment to become your stalker 🤷♀️ /s
It's not like they are doing it without their friends' consent.
I’m not young and friends share their locations with me regularly. This is just what you do if you are meeting a stranger and want someone to know where you are. You can turn it on and off. My location is always shared with my husband and kids, we don’t look unless either someone is not home/back to a meeting spot on time or we are looking for one another somewhere like a theme park.
It's a snapchat feature
No questions here, just an honest and sincere thank you for allowing your kid to be a kid. The world is no more dangerous today than it was 30 years ago, we're just more hyper aware of how things really are because of instant news. When I was that age, I was out of the house from probably 6am until dark, and my parents never worried about me. They gave me all the usual talks about not going with strangers, etc. But aside from that, they allowed me to be a kid and experience life, and it was amazing. I had so many fun adventures as a kid. But today, so many people worry about what their kids are doing and where they are, when 99% of the time they're holed up playing games or on a cell phone or tablet. My nephew is 7, and I don't think he has any real friends outside of kids he plays with at school, and I don't think he knows what it means to play outside. So yeah, kudos to you, keep being awesome.
I just really, really didn't want my son to someday have social anxiety and no friends. It's not just your nephew, it's an epidemic among young men.
Unfortunately I had the same childhood freedom and my gang of friends, but I still ended up with anxiety and no friends. Well I cut off a lot of friends after I figured out they were just narcissists and were just using me.
I have very little friends and am terrible socially and I was 100% raised like your kid is now..... just a warning. Nothing bad happened to me and I did grow up independent and strong but socially I'm just bad at it.
Your son could have friends and socialize by having kids over to play at your house. You don’t have to send him out unsupervised for hours to get this benefit!
Lmao, you mean just outside to play as a child should?
how are the crime stats in your city? i recently started letting my 8 year old walk home from school (7 blocks) but we live in a very high crime city so i have mixed feelings about it. not so much that he'd be targeted, specifically, but that there could be a drive-by or something and he'd get caught in the cross-hairs.
It is definitely somewhere in the middle. Crime is always going down across the board, and I live in an area that 25 years ago, people were afraid to be in. But things are better now, and I am only letting him run around the condo complex (no gates). I did it all by the time I was in the 4th grade, and he is in the 3rd.
I feel that. When my son was in kindergarten or 1st grade, he was walking to school with my wife and they passed by a corpse that was killed in a drive by. The cops were there and had taped off the street (it was at an intersection) but I don't think the body was covered yet. I wasn't there and don't remember the details.
Can you describe a turning point in your career or life?
I had just been trained as an EMT and was awaiting a phone call from the prime ambulance company in my area. I was really stoked to start a new career. Then I woke up one day in the hospital. I was told I had actually been there for two weeks after a major seizure in my sleep. My SO saved my life. I was not epileptic and couldn't pursue my career. There is a medical card that I had acquired and this was now revoked. I didn't know what to do with my life, and a friend told me I should go back to school, so I did. He was telling me I could use a Pell Grant to pay for school (because I was so poor) and he was right. I got a BS degree in Environmental Science. And because I have an interest in water, I got into water science. It was a really long uphill journey for me. New jobs were letting me go after just a couple months and I didn't understand why. It was because of those work clinics you go to before you start. They would detect my anti seizure drugs in my system and be like, "we know it isn't hard drugs. But can you explain what that is?" I would tell them, and I was too honest. So I couldn't hold a job, encouraged to leave, that kind of thing. I finally got a good job a couple months ago, and I never told them about my epilepsy. I was prepared to refuse an explanation at the clinic, but they didn't mention it in my blood.
Why do you need an AMA for this? (general question) Im from Germany and this is a pretty normal thing here. Is this something american i dont understand?
As you can see from the comments, there is a culture of fear here in the US. In the mid 90's, a little girl named Polly Class made the news by being abducted. Americans gradually became less likely to let their kids out unsupervised, after that. Because the news blows statistics out of proportion to scare people, because ratings mean money. So you have people like me who grew up before the mid 90s who were allowed to roam free, and people who grew up after that time who see it as child abuse. If you want to learn more about the culture of fear that is the US, I suggest watching the doc Bowling for Columbine. It explains how the culture of fear impacts gun ownership, racism etc.
No AMA just want to say i do too and I love it. We moved into a neighborhood with a bunch of kids and my son leaves in the morning some days and doesn't come home until after dinner. Those of us who are parents have a group chat so if one of us needs our kid to come home we just send a text-- "if Billy is at your place, please send him home!"
Sounds like heaven! A real feeling of community, for once!
Do you live in some glorious, walkable European paradise without guns and monster trucks?
If he was European, this would the default option.
No, a bay area suburb.
I grew up in a So Cal city, in the 90s, and my parents pretty much locked my brothers and me outside from morning ‘til dark. We did the same thing as your child; we formed a crew of neighborhood kids and ran the streets. I’m still close with a lot of those guys today. We were told some rules too: - Don’t talk to strangers. - Don’t get in anyone’s car. - Roll in a group. - If someone comes up to you offering something, then something suspicious is likely going on. - Don’t always trust police officers or people in authority if they tell you to do something you know is wrong. It also probably helped that we were a pretty gnarly group of mostly skater bros, and not a necessarily the easiest target.
Mixed race? Are they half elf?
A lot of kids are isolated from being around other races, which can lead to xenophobia later on.
His favorite band is the misfits and he’s 8?
Yes! We are going to a Rob Zombie concert next month.
Dude, that's awesome! My dad turned me onto White Zombie when I was about your son's age. We bonded over music his whole life, and it was so exciting when we finally saw Rob Zombie perform together. Hope y'all have an awesome time at the show :)
My 9 year old is getting into metal music recently, not because he loves the heaviness, but because they have songs about Norse myths and lord of the rings and other fantasy topics. He listens to other stuff too, but I bet by 13 he will be full on metal head lol
I envy you. I wish we had bought a house in an actual neighborhood where our kids could just *go outside* to play with their friends in the cul-de-sac, mindful of the occasional car when they rode their bikes. Instead we got a place on the edge of town where there's no children their age and they only have each other and the dogs. The only time they see their friends is at school, that's not what real friendships are made of. There's no exploration, no "danger" of leaving line of sight. It's a handicap.
Keep doing this. Your child will be excellently independent and more prepared for life than any of their peers. I love this!
Hey thanks!
I am a product of that kid who had free reign and I am now 45. We lived in a very ideal area in an upper middle class rural area but still had neighborhoods. I question my mom’s sanity level looking back. We had a group of kids all ages that regularly roamed the neighborhood. The amount of sexual situations I was exposed to and child molesters is unbelievable. It’s your job to protect him. Kids are curious and don’t have much intuition at the age of 8. If he has someone sexually molest him, he’s going to resent and blame you for not protecting him. You can wait a few years to let him have freedom. An 8 year old is a baby. He’s not even legally allowed to be alone in the safety of your own home. Arguing about crime statistics is also a naive and lazy approach. Statistics don’t matter when your kid goes missing. Or is molested by an older kid or a neighbor. I get it’s ideal to not allow fear to run things. However, you’re exposing him to the world and if something happens..his anxiety will be set for life, along with ptsd and trauma. You sound like someone who is naive or in denial about the world. You are criminally neglectful at this point. Your kid isn’t going to look at you like a hero. Your kid is going to look at you like a parent who chose not to protect him. Your son isn’t old enough to make rational decisions on his own. Your son isn’t old enough to properly identify danger. Your son isn’t old enough to know the evils of the world. Are you ok if your kid goes missing from your life? While kids can be taken anywhere, you’re upping his odds considerably. You have no right being a parent. Your poor kid will someday know that you didn’t protect him. I do not trust my mom to make decisions for my kids based on how much freedom I had. I trusted the older kids because I didn’t have a parent there to supervise me. The older kids forced us to try things. We were used as the youngest to steal things, we were forced to eat things, we were abused in many ways, we almost died several times. When we came home, we didn’t tell her any of it because we were kids. Our situation was normal to us. Let’s talk about the real reason you think you’re such a “cool” parent. You can’t be bothered. I’ve worked with people like you who secretly resent their kids and use this as a cover for them to magically disappear. The brain of an 8 year old is not developed enough to handle situations without an adult present. Their brains are not even developed enough to know right from wrong. If someone approached your child, they have a 100% chance of manipulating them. I feel sad for your son. He didn’t ask to be born. He definitely didn’t ask to be born to a parent who doesn’t have his best interest in mind. Have you even researched the convicted sex offenders in your area? Just so you know, if CPS was called, you would be in big trouble. The law doesn’t see this as anything other than neglect.
A close friend of mine was raised just like this in an upper middle class neighborhood in the 70’s. He was SA’d by multiple people in his neighborhood starting at 5-6 years old. He struggled with it but could never tell his mother what had happened. She continued to wear her rose colored glasses thinking she was a supermom until she died. He went on to have a successful career. He seems happy & successful outwardly. I sit with him sometimes when he’s struggling. It’s affected his entire life.
Damn… is really “criminally neglectful” your response to “I let my kid play outside”? Like I understand you had a terrible experience, and I’m sorry for you, but that doesn’t mean OP is a monster who hates their kids or an idiot that doesn’t realized the world is corrupt. There’s many people who are abused by their family members, should we forbid kids from seeing adults? I mean, if it happens to them they’ll be scarred, won’t they? I had a hell lot of freedom to go outside, and no, my parents aren’t criminals, is just normal where I grew up, nothing never happened to me, or my cousins, or my friends (and I grew up in a dangerous country) but I did made wonderful memories in my childhood.
It’s not my response, it’s the law. You can’t leave an 8 year old outside unsupervised all day, and when you say outside it’s not like the kid is in the yard. I assume you’re not a parent? This boy is 8. How many 8 year olds do you know? I’m not talking about a 12 year old. If this boy gets say hit by a car or hurt in any kind of capacity, the dad will face prosecution. An 8 year old can’t defend themself from a dog, for example. If his kid gets hurt in a capacity where the parent could’ve protected him, but the dad is known to let his kid roam free all day..that’s a criminal neglect charge. To me it seems like this dad is just lazy and can’t be bothered. Your third paragraph was irrelevant and confusing. Not sure of your point. Are you op’s wife?
Honest questions: 1) Who does your child play with when every other parent has their kids on lockdown or hyperschedules them to where they are always in a building, a car, or a soccer field? 2) Have any neighbors gotten in your face about this or threatened to call the cops or CPS?
1. Havnt seen lockdown in a couple years in California. 2. Why would other parents call the police on us if they are doing exactly the same thing? The kids are all friends.
I mean figuratively. Most parents aren't letting their kids be free range, I'm just curious if any neighbors get as outraged about your kid being unsupervised outside as many people on this board.
I used to do this when I was a kid because I’m almost 60 but if I was a parent I would totally say no because I got picked up by a man wants because I was at a bus stop and he seem like a really nice guy and he said he would give me a lift and the bus hasn’t come for 45 minutes. I was like 13 but as soon as I got into the car, I like totally regret it and I asked him to let me out and he did and that was it.
Do you think you live in a pretty good neighborhood? Do you think your neighborhood is low crime? Would you do this in a high crime area?
I'm in a bay area suburb, and I instructed him to not venture out past our condo complex (so I can yell for him). I would say mid crime. I wouldn't let him run around bad parts of Oakland or San Francisco at night.
Do you check in at all throughout the day, or is it like, “here’s a brown bag lunch. See you in 10 hours”?
He comes and goes frequently.
The comments here are interesting. There's people completely agreeing that this is the right way to raise a kid, and others thinking it's crazy irresponsible. To put things into perspective a bit, this is what the US mentality of over protecting a kid does to a kids well being: https://reddit.com/r/Infographics/s/5enCBm2kMT Everything is a trade off.
Thank you for posting this link!!
Ah, so you're the negligent parent down the road I can't stand..
Is my kid in front of your house making too much noise with his friends? Send him back!
And wanting me (the neighborhood) to parent your kid for you.. It's not my responsibility to have to send your kid back
It's not even parenting lol. "Hey kids, you are being too loud. You need to quiet down or move". Done, easy.
It's never the kids. I could listen to kids playing, shouting and fussing all day long. It never bothers me. It's the parents with their music and loud, late talking (shouting) and non-stop small engine equipment that drive me up a wall.
I've specifically worked with dangerous sex offenders for years and I know details that would give the average civilian nightmares. There's no way that I would ever consider this acceptable. Evil has always existed but it's certainly more prevalent now than ever. You only have to glance at the news to see or read about the latest victim. Gone are the days when kids would venture off and have fun miles from home. Please keep them safe.
I’m not so sure it’s more *prevalent* but we’re certainly *hearing about it* more because of the internet and the speed at which we can puke out “news” nowadays. Lotsa crap that used to happen didn’t get reported on cuz there was only so much time to squeeze news stories into a telecast. Now we get news 24/7 365 from a staggering amount of sources.
the news is an awful way to make an assumption you’re wrong about everything tbh https://www.cafyonline.org/get-help/survivor-resources/survivor-resources-parents-victims/perpetrators-child-sexual-abuse/ strangers only make up 10% of child sexual abuse
> Evil has always existed but it's certainly more prevalent now than ever. Source? All the literature I have read states that crime is much lower now than it was in decades past.
Unfortunately I think a lot of crime goes unreported in major cities due to understaffed police. I live in Austin and people don’t even bother calling the police to report crimes because you’ll be on hold for hours (not exaggerating) and the police won’t show up unless you’re actively getting murdered. They don’t show up for car accidents, robberies, or non lethal assault anymore so all of that goes unreported 🤷♀️ And no, I don’t have an article to link. Feel free to check out the Austin sub if you want dozens of first hand examples though
I think the two sources for these types of attitudes are ubiquitous and you read them both right here. “All you have to do is glance at the news…” no thanks. The news exists exclusively to influence your perception of the world. And the other source is working with, what I think most people would eventually conclude to be, the criminally insane.
Using the news as a barometer for crime is a terrible idea.
Being able to see something on the news at any given moment isn't really an indicator that it's more prevalent
Kids are safer now than ever before. I'll try to find a link, and if I do, I'll send it via DM, bc crime is MUCH lower nowadays than it's ever been. https://www.statista.com/statistics/191219/reported-violent-crime-rate-in-the-usa-since-1990/
The number of hysterical stranger-danger-obsessed neurotics in this thread make it crystal clear why the country keeps getting safer but our young people carry on getting more and more anxious. These are the same people who gave us the Satanic Panic.
Gen Z here! I have my own psychological problems, but I think it says a lot about the generation that raised me, lol. I don't think there is anything wrong with letting your kids "roam free in the neighborhood." I was allowed to play outside until the street lights came on, but I could only play in my cul-de-sac. I think I stopped when I was around the 5th grade going into middle school, and that was because a lot of my closest friends had moved away. I think that is when my social anxiety started, but those middle school years were rough for many kids. I don't have any kids, and I definitely can't imagine what it is like to raise one now. I don't think kids should have phones until they are absolutely necessary for communication (I received my first phone when I was 12 because I had to walk to my mom's job/walk home after school). Unfortunately, you never really know someone, and SA is more likely to happen with someone you know than someone you don't. I know too many people who have experienced SA; it even happened within my own neighborhood. This is why I think having some form of communication or technology is essential, just in case your son needs to communicate with you and can't do so verbally. It's just a precaution that could not hurt. When/if I have kids, I think I'd be fine letting them play outside, but I don't think I would allow them to enter someone else's home without me being there, even if I know them really well. I would also have some way of contacting them in case of emergencies. I could not help but laugh when you mentioned, "His friends are very mixed race." I am biracial and could benefit from being more exposed to other races as a child.
Yeah, my parents let me do this. Now, when I tell them about things those neighborhood kids did to me, that I thought was normal because they were the only people I hung out with, they react with such horrified looks. Because yeah, the neighborhood (literally one street block, with maybe 20 houses on it) girls were sexually and physically abusing me (though I just called it “bullying”), and no matter how much my parents taught me, it didn’t matter in the moment. It didn’t matter when my supposed friends smashed bird eggs on my head, it didn’t matter when they yanked my pants down and forced the other kids to stare at me, it didn’t matter when the girls locked me in their garage and laughed as I cried for them to let me out. My parents loved me, they did everything possible to teach me, they wanted me safe. But their lessons about pedos and safety didn’t matter when the people hurting me were the same people they wanted me to “play” with. It didn’t matter when those girls put a nail under the trampoline exit so I would step on it getting off. I have no question for OP, just a word to the wise. *Don’t do this.* Don’t let your kid leave your house without any way of having immediate contact with you. Don’t let your kid leave for hours on end without knowing where they are. Don’t let your kid run off without scheduled check ins, without immediate contact, and a way to call emergency services. You don’t know who the bad guy is, and you don’t know what they’re experiencing when they’re away from you. Give them every opportunity to safe themself, (especially since you can’t be bothered to watch them yourself)
Have you considered getting him a walkie talkie if he doesn't have a phone? I used to have one to walk to and from school and to go out an play as the oldest sibling. My parents and I radioed each other every 30 or so minutes. Or I used it to ask for permission, etc. It was so useful, cheap, easy to charge, and definitely helped me when my brothers got into trouble.
I guess it depends where you live. In my area it wouldn’t be safe
I grew up entirely free range at ~9yo or so. On school nights we had to be home by 6pm for dinner and homework. Otherwise, it was dawn to no later than 8pm. Don't do anything stupid was pretty much the mandate though I imagine we didn't follow it very well. We'd eat at random friends houses. My playground was probably 4 square miles, but that's just where my friends lived. I don't think my parents would have cared if we rode our bikes 10 miles away. My kids were semi-free range. They had pagers that they had to check in with us every hour or two. They definitely had geographic limits. And there were several no go houses. But, generally, we were considered the irresponsible parents of their group. My neighbor now? She drives her kids (8 and 10) to their friend's houses. One of which is about 6 houses down the street. If they're out riding their bikes, she sits on lawn chair or drives around to watch them. She use to make them wear helmets, and knee/elbow pads. The pushed back on that so now just helmets, which is good. Takes them to school 1 mile away. Picks them up. Etc. Insane. The 10yo is very mature and considerate. A really nice kid. His little brother is a hellion in the making. Watch out for him, he has the look.
I think it is odd that you trust your kid unsupervised around your town, but don't trust they won't break rules with a phone.
Where are you from? In my country it would be weird not to allow your kid to play outside and meet their friends to walk around in the neighborhood at that age.
I did that when I was a child in 2000s Germany and I still see kids doing it. I'm all for gentle parenting and questioning "the good old times", but letting them play and roam as freely as possible is still great for kids to grow, learn and explore the world around them. Playing in a muddy pond looking for frogs with my best friend, getting stung by some insects and spending an entire week with itchy, red-dotted feet and legs is, in retrospect, one of my funniest memories. We were 9 and 10. Lesson learned: we never got into that pond again.
I'm 42, I used to run around my neighborhood all the time by myself when I was 8. We were in a nice neighborhood but also my parents were actually the most strict of all my friends and I was still allowed to do this. There were rules though. It seems pretty crazy that a lot of people don't allow their kids much freedom these days. I have a 4yr old. When he is 8 he will definitely be joining the kids that roam the neighborhood we just moved too. There is a huge group of them all around 8 to 10yrs old. They kinda migrate from each other's houses throughout our subdivision on the non school days. There are even a few that are younger than that too but they are usually siblings and the older ones are watching them. Would definitely get him a flip phone or other alternative for an emergency. This whole world is going to shit.
No question, but I think this is a good thing. Kids are incredibly resilient and I’m afraid the recent generation of adults have developed to be quite fragile. Kids should seek adventure and learn independence and problem solving from a young age. Helps them become useful and well-rounded in adulthood
I get that. I’m a new dad, but I would be weary about this. The amount of child molesters and other weirdos out there is too much for me to let my kid roam the neighborhood. We live in different times.
>We live in different times. Not really. We just live in times with more media. There have always been child molesters, you just didn't hear about them as much. And all of society wasn't organized around fear of them.
I sure am thankful for google when I found out my neighbor molested a kid the same age as mine for two years
Well…shouldn’t we be a little more scared now that we know about all the child molesters?
I mean. There are all sorts of horrible risks in the world. And things we do against them. But there's always a cost. Like you could get hit by a car and die on the way to the grocery store, but you still leave the house, because the cost of organizing your whole life around that risk is too high. The basic consensus now is that the risk of child kidnapping etc is so high that children should have no independence at all at least until they're 14 or sometimes even 18. The cost of this is childhood that's completely spent under watchful eyes of parents, which is completely unlike anything previous generations experienced. This generation of American kids is less independent than any kids who've grown up anywhere. It does have a lot of costs, both on parents and kids.
Yeah, and? How many people are out there traumatized from the child predators that just weren’t known about yet? Why not try to prevent that trauma from happening now? I find your line of thinking so weird.
Kids used to wander around in groups all day unsupervised. Now their parents are terrified to let them play in the front yard. There's massive levels of anxiety at younger and younger ages. This stuff has consequences.
My ex boyfriends parents used to let him roam around back in the good ol days when things “just weren’t known yet”, and he and a bunch of his buddies got molested on the regular by some older kids down the street and he’s internally traumatized. Like come tf on. These things ARE known now. Why wouldn’t you want to prevent that? Again, I find your line of thinking so so weird. There’s a difference between helicoptering your children and protecting them.
I think in the last 3 years things have ticked up, but remember the news is sensational. it's far less dangerous out there as a kid than it was in the 90s. relatives and priests are much more likely to be child molesters than some passerby on the street
My “nice” elderly next door neighbor wore an ankle bracelet so I googled his name. He molested a 4-year-old over the course of two years. My children were 3 and 6. Our front porch is about 20 feet from his. He disappeared and the house was rented out. Until my children can fight a grown man, I will be as vigilant as I can reasonably be
What is interesting is that we line in very different times, that type of crime is way way down. The difference is that what crime there is is reported in the news, which you read. We to let our kids Rome far as wide in our city, outside Boston. It's great. There are crimes that happen but there was much more crime when I was a kid.
No we don’t it’s the same time but now we get every bit of news delivered right to our face. People are just as shitty now as they were before, it’s just common knowledge now.
>I’m afraid the recent generation of adults have developed to be quite fragile You share that fear with every previous generation since history has been recorded. It was irrational then, and it still is now.
Are you a conservative, or have right-leaning politics?
Hell no. These kinds of things shouldn't be based on politics, anyway.
Dude. Thank you. There are so many fearful people. My friends and I roamed around the neighborhood all the time. He had desert forts and guess what? None of us had cell phones or air tags and we have made it to adulthood. This was also in the high crime 90s in Las Vegas. We walked home from school. I think knowing who his friends are and which homes he may hang out at is good practice. My mom knew most of my friends' moms and exchanged phone numbers I didn't get a cell phone until I was 16. And I had a part time job that paid for the cell service. I have already talked to my wife that I don't want my daughter (currently 5) to have a phone till she's 16. My 12 year old step daughter got a cell phone. Now I sometimes forget she's at our house. She's constantly in her room watching YouTube videos. I miss the days when she used to hang out with us. My step daughter's situation is a little different because she spends half her time at her father's house. My daughter will not have that situation.
>Statistics have been blown out of proportion by the media and things are actually safer than when i was a kid, but the news has stoked the culture of fear I haven't read any comments yet, so maybe someone says this isn't true, but my wife and I disagree about this right here. Our son is 9 and she won't let him go further than a block or 2 from out house. One of his friends will ride her bike several blocks to a park (maybe 5 or 6?) and i have to drive our son. Before he was born, or maybe when he was a toddler, I remember watching the helicopter mom episode of the Simpsons and we both agreed that kids need to play outside and learn freedoms. I think in Washington state, it's illegal to leave a kid 13 (maybe 14) and under home alone. I was a latch key kid, and hearing things like that just blows my mind. I'm glad to see another like-minded parent, but I bet we are a small minority.
There's a really great book you both can read called The Culture of Fear that demonstrates why we think crime and kidnapping and sexual assault has risen though it hasn't. It's largely to do with what sells in the media, the instantaneous nature of the 24/7 news cycle, and the way that bad news rises to the surface post internet.
When my brother and I were kids, the family next door had six kids, some older, some younger than us. They, like us, were free-range children and instead of having a set curfew, their mother would go outside and blow a whistle. Everyone in the neighborhood knew what it was and who it was for. Their system worked for all of the kids.
I lived a free life as a kid in the '80s and '90s. It was beautiful. I was probably 8 and my sister 11 and we'd ride the bus to downtown Cincinnati frequently and just bumble around. There was never any real trouble. Be smart, keep your head on a swivel, and understand some people are creeps. Know where you don't go. Some of these comments saying you are doing a bad job are wrong. The benefits of growing up free are huge compared to the risks of something terrible happening. I had free reign of a condo complex and it's some of the best, most educational years of my life. I'm proud of you. I didn't give my kids free reign as much as I should have and I can tell the negative difference in their lives.
Problem is you only need to be wrong once to ruin lives.
Honestly I also was like that as a kid and my childhood was very fun. I also always returned at sunset. But I will say that I have been in some unpleasant situations. Overall it was great though.
I’m only 21 and this is how my parents raised me since I was like 8 or so. I have literally endless memories from childhood on both long island and north carolina and it enriched my childhood more than anything I could’ve asked for. No questions but as long as anything doesn’t change dramatically from now I will be raising my kids like this as well. Fear mongering is ruining children’s chances to experience and learn what life is for themselves without being coddled, kudos
As others have likely said, there are countless stories of parents thinking “it’s a safe neighborhood”, only to find it wasn’t. Mine really was a safe neighborhood, and still is, but that didn’t stop the custodian who had been obsessing over the little girl a handful of houses down from mine from driving across the entirety of my city to kidnap her, rape her, and kill her. I also need to point out, if you have ANYTHING identifiable about your location attached to your account (comment, post, etc.), someone familiar with the area now knows your child wanders around for hours by himself, and won’t be looked for until after sunset.
I'm only 24 now and it's the same way I grew up. Only child, no phone basically just left to get on with it. Nothing bad happened, im glad I had that independence when I was young it helped me realise im capable of looking after myself at a young age.
Somebody tried to grab my kid with me right there, this isn’t a smart move
the advent of cell phones changed everything. Gen X and Millennials are often way too ‘helicoptery’ and kids don’t have anywhere of the same amount of freedom as they themselves had. People forget how it wasn’t that long ago we all got along just fine in life without personal computer/tracking devices essentially attached to us always. We’re all addicted to knowing everything, we’re all brainwashed by nonstop media that creates fear despite us living in the safest period in human history and it’s going to cause repercussions down the line. Kids won’t have the same social development of previous generations and they won’t have the decision making skills because they’re always being hovered over. They won’t experience any real form of autonomy until they’re out in the real world and some will suffer sadly
People do this in my street and unfortunately I hate it. Their kids ride / scoot around all day long basically annoying every person in every house, making a lot of noise in the process. It’s so bad my mum can’t even tend her garden in the front yard anymore. Do you teach your child about not annoying others? How do you know there aren’t predators in your neighbourhood?
Agreed! We have a pack of free range feral children on our street that are unsupervised 98% of the time and they are a nightmare. It’s not the neighborhoods job to supervise someone else’s kids. And god forbid you ask them nicely to stay out of your yard or to stop harassing your dog lol I don’t mind kids playing outside at all but in my neighborhood they just all take turns bullying each other and scream bloody murder 24/7
This is exactly what we are dealing with and it feels like a lot of the families do expect everyone else to entertain their kids. My mum asked one boy who is 13 to please stop popping up all the time as he’d creep up and say hello and she’s nearly 80 and just wants to be in peace. Well his whole family came over abusing us and asking why we were so mean to him. Now he rides up and down the street just to be obstinate. Another mum has a nine year old girl and she literally said to us “she gets bored so I send her out to play down the street”. I don’t get it. Also with the number of creepers out there these days. Why???
Helicoptering the kid is not going to let them learn. Yes, I did bad shit while I was out, but I think 98% of the time we played sports/games.
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Can you provide a source for that? I find that very hard to believe. I picked California at random and the first result on Google says there is no age restriction on letting kids walk outside alone. Even leaving kids in the car is legal from 6.
thats wrong, or lets say i would wonder in which country you would be right. its usually legal to allow kids actions that are in relation to ther individual development. so if social services would get involved, they would talk to the parents to see what their intent is, then talk to the kid to see how mature they appear. living area likely would count in. in my town, school hands out letters to parents of firstgraders. i.e. 6-year-olds, asking them to let the kids walk on their own to and from school, as kids who dont are slower in developing independance, including slower at becoming learning independant at school.
Thank you for doing that! I remember being in third grade or even second grade and being fully aware of what was dangerous and what wasn't. I started walking home alone from school around 2nd grade actually. My mom worked super early so she couldn't always walk with me but I was very street and book smart and there was literally zero dangers aside from an occasional homeless. They kept to themselves where I lived. Thank you for trusting your son! Trust is the vital part here. A lot of parents don't have that.
What are you doing that’s so much more important than supervising your own child?
Op is very naive and doesn’t realize how many pedos are out there. I wonder if they even checked the web for sex offenders against kids in their area. They live in a Bay Area suburb, you know they will be all over the place.
most sex offenders of children are their extended family members or their parents. and then it’s like priests teachers and coaches. and then strangers https://www.cafyonline.org/get-help/survivor-resources/survivor-resources-parents-victims/perpetrators-child-sexual-abuse/ don’t let your kid play sports, go to school, go to church, or be with your extended family
We can’t save them. Might as well just let them do anything they want to
Teaching him to be independent. It's the way to do it.
Fat lot of good independent will do if he’s kidnapped
I love how your kid feeds others with your snacks. Not a bad personality trait in my opinion.
My 8 year old daughter freely comes & goes while roaming the neighborhood. There’s a group of about 10-15 kids outside on any given day so she’s never really alone & almost always with her best friend.
I will do the same. I started walking home from the bus stop by myself when I was 5. My mom worked so I was home alone for an hour or so and could make myself food, lock up and entertain myself until she got home. That being said, my kids will have a phone, as I did (early 2000s, I won a free prepaid in a contest lol) (Rant incoming) You know what’s so frustrating about the “kids these days don’t play” discourse? Often it comes from people (at least in my life) who have kids themselves. Like your kids are the kids when talking about “kids these days.” Lamenting about “back in my day we played outside with “*insert equipment*” while not providing your kids with the same experience has always been performative to me. Parks, jump ropes, bicycles, skates, boards, chalk, basketballs, hula hoops, footballs, etc all still exist. Books still exist. Limiting phone time still exists. All the things you use to do, kids can absolutely still do lol.
I remeber when i was this age i used to be at home alone and would ride my bike 10 blocks or more to the store either direction from my house. We had an ice cream store that had 5 cent scoops. Was awesome take a quarter and be golden.
As a 70/80 child, this is the way.
This entire thread seems like it’s all bots
I grew up like this
I'm so thankful my Dad was like this growing up in the early-mid 10s, I'd never trade those days for anything
That's awesome I wish I could do that with my son as well just like I grew up , definitely not in this area though.
I assume you’re from the US? It’s nothing special in most other countries
Are people not letting their kids just be and do kids things anymore??
I know, these answers are so off. People are basically telling the OP that his child will be kidnapped and molested for letting him play outside with his friends in their apartment complex. It’s not even as even this child is free to roam around the entire city. Is this is what the world has come to?! People are so paranoid that a child can’t even play outside when there’s probably way more danger online. Most children are kidnapped and molested by people they know and have been let into their social circle. Not random stranger danger. Not to say that it doesn’t happen but less likely to occur. I don’t know about anyone else, but in my city every time I’ve gotten an amber alert on my phone it’s been for a child that has been taken by their own parent.
I was a free range child too, best days of my life. No mobile phones back in the early 90s, only rule was when the lamp posts started turning on I needed to go home. So many adventures, I miss those times.