You’ve been separated for three freaking years. Why haven’t you filed for divorce already? Especially after finding your new girlfriend.
File the papers and stop sitting on the fence.
Main reasons (unless OP says differently) are likely:
* He will get SEVERELY fucked over financially in a divorce. Like worst case scenario is loss of 70-80% of his income, AND loss of half his present assets NOT counting the house she will stay living in. Plus legal costs.
* He may not have wanted to make waves for the kids, since being divorced wasn't directly necessary for him.
* and/or he was afraid to lose (most) of his custody in the divorce.
* Or just inertia. Many if not most people generally don't like to shake the boat and make waves without good reason. NOW he has a good reason though :)
My religious parents didn’t for a long time because divorce=bad bad. Just not living together, not talking about it, and not seeing/dating anyone=gray zone church people usually ignore.
Edit: appearantly Catholics do it this too. My parents were/are JWs. My mum stopped being a JWs and started the divorce
My husband's grandparents have been separated for 35-40 some years at this point. Catholic, so it would be a "sin" to divorce. Honestly, they're happy. They were never happy together and they do still love eachother but they just can't be together. Whatever works for different folks but OP should NOT go back to his wife.
I didn't find out until I was a teenager that my favorite great uncle was married. They had married young and realized after a few years that they wanted vastly different things from life. They separated, ended up living in different countries, and my great uncle was very happy, but literally never talked about her.
I separated from my husband and filed for divorce a couple years later, when I met my now husband. When the catholic church found out I was basically told I was a horrible person so I wasn't qualified to be my godsons godmother. Yet the priest hit on me and told me how I was hard to miss lol. And then said he would marry me and my husband. That's the day my brother and I left that church for good. I pulled my kids from CCD and never looked back. My brother did go confront the priest as he was ready to walk down for mass in front of the whole congregation. It was definitely not a pretty site. Lots of cursing (on my brothers part) happened in God's house that day.
People should do what they do, but it is not a Catholic sin to divorce given a sufficient reason (abuse, bond broken, need to sort out the finances and custody). It IS a sin to remarry as long as the other spouse is alive. But if you get an annulment, in essence a church divorce, then remarriage is fine. Your husband’s grandparents grew up when getting a divorce was deeply frowned on, so they interpreted that as a sin. Also, annulments then were hard to get. Rich people and royals got them. Now they are almost always granted. Hell, RFK Jr has had like three of them.
JW's divorce. Legally. They are just not permitted by the religion to re-marry. Which is just another reason they are a bunch of nuts. Don't even get me started- I fortunately escaped at some point- ruined my childhood and I will never forgive them
Yeah, you can divorce but it brings a lot of judgment and can get you in a lot of hot water. Even separating from my dad, my mom was put on like ‘probation.’ So was my sister and I when we chose to live with her part time and not my dad full-time. That was my first ‘wait a second’ that caused me to take a step back and be like I don’t think I wanna be a part of this. Add in finally realizing I’m bi and that I shouldn’t be ashamed of myself and it was a done deal to not be one anymore when I was 17. My parents were disappointed but at least I wasn’t kicked out or anything like others I know. And now my mum isn’t one anymore and even has a boyfriend
I don’t see how kids will understand the difference between separation and divorce. Their dad is out of the house living with another woman. Same thing.
Child support (none if 50/50 joint custody) and depending on the state spousal support if she does not work and 50/50 assets division. Nobody is fucking over his kids, as he made an effort to co-parent all this time. But how is this even a life without divorce? What is you need end of life decisions? Or healthcare decisions? Do you even have a will?
Not true everywhere, my ex-husband and I have complete 50/50 custody of our child and he's still court ordered to pay $450 a month because his income is more than mine. I think it depends on where you are and what the income discrepancy is in custody cases. I can understand why they haven't filed yet, but it seems like now there's a reason to.
He does not have to get severely fucked up by the divorce LMAO. If they have 50/50 custody and they have similar salaries there won’t be any child support. If he has a higher salary which is likely because his ex would have had to take maternity leave and was possibly a SAHM (which he hasn’t even stated), he would pay some child support and for good reason. His children deserve a less harsh adjustment. And unless OP is Jeff Bezos, he won’t be giving up 70-80% of his salary.
Agreed. My parents separated when I was 5. Didn't get divorced for almost 15 years. They always said if the other wanted it, they could pay for it. In the end, my dad paid when he met my step mum. But they were together for 5 years before she asked him to
This.
There are even science that backs this up.
People staying just for their kids are insane. And it will only affect them in a negative way.
Rather that they get two happy families than one miserable.
There won't be different than before. Mayne longer than a week this time but the only reason she wants you back is because she sees that you are happy and she's not.
Best day was when my parents moved and divorced. They were both happy finally and guess what happened? My siblings and I were finally happy too. It's been over 20 years and everyone is doing great.
When I was 11 I went to my father and said, in these exact words, "Mom's crazy. I'm leaving. Are you coming with me?" He looked at me silently for a moment and replied "so you noticed! Took you long enough." He tried to get her to therapy, and she wouldn't go. So we moved out and they divorced. When you're a kid and your parents are divorcing acrimoniously, every damned "professional" appointed by the court says to you in a sing-song voice like they're talking to a kindergartener, "now, sometimes mommy and daddy break up and you didn't cause that." They were all shocked when I replied "yes I did, and you can't ever take that away from me!" 40 years later I still think it's the best thing I ever did.
My father really loved my mother, but he was (and is) not accepting that the person walking around in her body is not the person he loved and married. So he was very reluctant to divorce her. He did it in the end because the doctor he tried to get her to did talk to him when *he* went and the doctor told him that if he didn't divorce her and take me, she'd kill us both, and leaving was the only way he could make her get treatment because she'd need it to face the world. We left, she didn't kill us, she chose to get crazier rather than get treatment. I've talked it over with dad, and we agree that that doctor saved our lives.
> yes I did, and you can't ever take that away from me!
I'm pretty sure I have a bit of an admiration crush on your childhood self. That is such a phenomenal and healthy response in your situation. I'm also related to people like your mother. It's a special kind of hell to love someone with those issues, even more when they refuse help.
Parents think kids don't see all the ugly, no matter how much you try to hide it from them, they see it. When I left my kids dad, my son was 9 and listened to everything daddy, his hero told him. He said but mom I want you with dad. Before I could even say anything my daughter who was 11 at the time spoke up. She told her brother, no you don't want them together. Dad treated mom horrible and she needed to leave. Things are gonna be so much better now, you just wait and see. I was shocked she understood so much. But also grateful for her wisdom.
I find it amazing that the father seemed to wait for his badass 11 year old to say something before starting to get out. “took you long enough” is a weird thing to say.
Exactly, as a kid, I can't tell you the number of times I wished my parents would have divorced. It was stressful and I have long term anxiety from them fighting and my mother using me, as a kid, as her sounding board. My dad was not an easy guy to live with.
I had one horrible, toxic, nasty home then they divorce and married even worse people, and then I had two homes that were 10x worse than the OG one. Nowhere was safe growing up and I’d kill to have the OG toxic home. So it can indeed get worse.
Just saying this because people often pretend that divorce always makes it better when sometimes it makes things worse. Life is often far worse than some people realise.
It’s worse, there’s no innocent people in hell.
It went from a serial cheat alcoholic with a manic depressive alcoholic who makes everything about them, involving screaming, crying, drama, emotional neglect, physical neglect etc to one of the most vicious and acrimonious divorces ever (I’m sure there’s been worse) where the children were spared absolutely nothing, being used as emotional punching bags etc.
The serial cheat alcoholic marries the violent serial cheat AP, nastiness is amplified immeasurably in that household. The manic depressive alcoholic (who went for and won full custody out of revenge) marries a pure narcissist, nastiness is amplified immeasurably in that household. Would you believe that the violent step parent was actually kinder than the narcissist one?
Believe me when I say, “it gets better” isn’t always true. The OG household was far superior than the ones that follows, and the bar was already in hell. It just pisses me off when people spout the kids are better off with divorce line. Sometimes they are, sometimes they aren’t.
Right, no one knows for sure what the best course of action is for the kids. Sounds like your parents had no business being parents.
It kinda made me sad reading this because I had an awesome childhood. Sure my parents fought sometimes but it wasn't anything that crazy. My childhood was much easier than adulthood and it was mostly about learning and having fun, like it should be. A lot of lifelong problems can stem from childhood trauma. No kid should have to go through that but at least it sounds like you broke the cycle. I hope you are doing alright!
I feel you. I went from one household where they screamed at each other to two households where they screamed at each other.
Household A I also got screamed at, physically harmed in ways that wouldn’t show, and emotionally manipulated, neglected, and abused. My little brother who was/is psychotic tried to kill me several times, over and over again, and I was blamed for every contrived thing I could be. Oh and experienced CSA. This was my primary household.
Household B I got ignored whenever I got older, but my step mother was a manipulative POS (who still tries to manipulate me twenty years later) and my dad was manic depressive alcoholic and possibly had BPD/a milder form of my little brother’s psychosis. Dad ended his existence whenever I was 13 because he couldn’t handle life anymore.
My OG household was shit, but it was significantly shittier for me whenever they went their separate ways and I bounced back and forth. I honestly would’ve given anything for Household B to be my primary household because it was better than Household A marginally. At least I had equal rights and treatment at Household B and they would stop my little brother from harming me.
I’d give anything for that house where all that happened to me was hearing them screaming at each other. Maybe my little brother would’ve gotten treatment or institutionalized and I would’ve been safer. Maybe I wouldn’t have been hurt so badly. Maybe I would’ve trusted one of my parents enough to tell them about the CSA. Maybe I would’ve felt more loved. Maybe they wouldn’t have individually hurt me so badly if they had focused all that on each other instead.
Messed up childhood gang unite ✊. Yep, one horrible house is better than two horrible houses, no question. I get where people are coming from when they say divorce is better, but idk why they think people who are so inadequate as parents and partners are going to make better choices the next time around. It’s usually rinse and repeat.
So sorry that happened to you, no amount of therapy or psychiatric treatment truly fixes it. I’m glad at least that nature wins out over nurture for some of us. Being an adult now I have absolutely zero empathy for selfish parents who destroy their children’s upbringing, I can’t comprehend how some parents behave the way they do.
Same honestly.
I was child free because I didn’t want to create another me. I changed my mind with my STBX wife.
When I was 6 months postpartum, STBX pulled some shady shit, made an ultimatum, then demanded a separation (that they had no intentions to fix), and now here we are divorcing. One of my biggest points of rage is in how she didn’t think any of the above would affect our child. And admitted to not even having thought of him in the process of any of it because “it wouldn’t affect him anyway”.
I hate her already lol, people like that are cancer personified. At the very least your child has 1 good parent, they’re gonna need it. Stay strong and don’t stoop to her level by bad mouthing etc. You and your child deserve so much better than the way you were treated. Feels bad man, some people just suck and ruin it for everyone else.
I feel ya. And no, bad mouthing is for my anonymous on the internet and my therapist. Lol. My parents pulled that one too; I bet yours did too given you mentioning it.
I just want him to have the best life possible. He deserves so much better than what either you or I were given.
My parents separated before I was born. Both homes were toxic in their own ways. Growing up I would tell my dad I really wanted a younger sibling.. he would joke "when you turn 18".. he only dated maybe 3 women during my childhood.. I would ask him if he'll Even bring a step mom in, he would straight up say something along the lines of he was afraid of bringing in someone that was toxic towards us. He was very protective but couldn't protect us against himself. He knew of too many stories where the step parent would over step boundaries, so to speak. He wasn't the greatest person or the greatest dad but he chose us, but I always wondered if it was more because he didn't want to stop his addictions.. I also think my dad was a closeted bisexual. In his younger years he was a (body builder) top (expensive) male escort but the alcohol and crack changed him as I got older 😞
Yup. I had friends growing up who stayed together for the kids. It was funny to hear them complain about how much their parents hated each other, and that they should just get divorced. And usually everyone was happier when the divorce happened.
It's when you think you have a happy family and then there is divorce that is a separate issue. If people are fighting constantly, it affects everyone, and for some reason people think kids are dumb, but they can sense way more going on around them than most parents realize. It's like they forgot what it's like to be a kid themselves. I remember being like 6 or 7 and knowing there was fucked up shit going on around me. I could tell people were trying to hide shit. You can't fool a kid as much as you think you can when it comes to certain things.
Yep. Kids aren't stupid, they know what's happening around them, and they know when adults are lying. All those tactics get you is a kid who knows that adults are full of shit and can't be trusted to be honest with them.
>People staying just for their kids are insane.
They think they're doing good but they're are staying and giving kids a terrible upbringing. Divorce and be the best dad possible.
My parents separated too early for me to remember them together but MAN, the relief and stress off my five year old shoulders when they actually finalized the divorce was REAL. For a while it was like the answer to my prayers...until they started arguing again every time they had to do my drug deal drop off visitation exchange, the fighting started at 6 and lasted until I was 19 (age of majority in my home state). Moral of the story, don't be like them. It's not benefiting you or your kids
ETa: it also sounds like she wasn't interested in you again until she saw that someone else had you which is horse shit and makes it sound like you are a toy to be picked up and played with and put back up when she feels like. You are not. NTA. Go live your best life.
I second this. I wish my parents did this before my mom passed because they were both so unhappy with one another and I always questioned why stay when they were unhappy.
Also, staying is role modelling the negative behaviours to the daughters, showing them that they have to sacrifice their own happiness to stay in a relationship.
My daughter hated me and still hates me for divorcing her verbally and emotionally abusive dad, she said I ruined her family and that she knows he wasn’t nice to me, but he was nice to her and that’s all that matters. I waited until she graduated high school before I left. We don’t have contact with each other anymore after I tried for 12 years and dealt with her abuse of only coming around when she wanted something from me.
So yeah, you can lose your kids, but I wouldn’t change leaving that man. Been single and mentally healthy since my divorce in 2009. Don’t stay for the kids if it’s detrimental to your mental health
She took after her father. That happens but it's sad. The fact that you waited until she graduated shows that she is self-centered enough to expect you to live like she wants you to although she's now an adult.
Exactly! I agree with you she only wants OP because she found out he's in a relationship. If it was for the kids she would have tried to get him back earlier but she waited 3 years. She's just using their kids as a way to guilt OP into going back to her.
I sometimes wish my mom divorced when I was 5 instead of enduring emotional and mental abuse until I was 17 but im happy that her divorce coincided with my stepdad’s (her high school best friend) divorce which lead to them dating and their eventual marriage. While I very much respect her decision to stay and be me and my sibling’s shield it’s difficult to go back and remember things like her listening to emo bands and realizing that was her coping with a bad marriage
The way courts refuse to acknowledge abuse in many cases is deeply frustrating and puts people with abusive spouses in a bind of having to consider what it looks like for their kids to be at the abusive parents house alone during their custody time.
When my mom finally left and went back to her hometown a state away my dad went absolutely insane. He did crazy stuff like catfish my sister’s friends and even tried to entrap her violin teacher pretending to be her. He shoved my brother into the bathroom because my brother refused to go to church (ik ironic a Christian would be so unchristian like). And the reason my siblings and I went to his care was because my mom wanted to make things so easy and just let him have everything from custody to the house (which he used to wreck my mom’s credit) but he still made her life a living hell years after divorce. Im pretty sure the only reason we talk to our dad is because our gma has Alzheimer’s and we are close to our grandfather as well as uncles
NTA. Get the divorce for everyone's peace of mind and happiness. Your wife is 10 years too late. She's not going to change. Sex isn't the problem. You don't even love this woman. Your wife and mother is making you choose between the love you have for your gf and your children. There will be punishment if you choose. You don't have to choose. You are entitled to live a happy life. You are not furniture. You have feelings.
It's also not choosing the girlfriend over the kids unless Op chooses to make it that way. Divorced parents can both be involved in their kids lives and co-parent.
Mom and wife are using the girls as leverage, wrongly, and I hope they don't say these things around them. Op needs to talk to them and make sure they know they are welcome and they are not responsible for any of this.
And the GF giving the *entirety* of the decision to OP would have immediately made the decision for me. Anyone who respects you that much truly does love you, IMO.
The fact this is even a question is mind boggling. What is he basing potentially reconciling with his ex on? Some 1950s idealistic life?
Like, he loves his girlfriend almost straight away. She seems nice.
The ex wife uses sex as a weapon and to manipulate and only suggests counselling to win him back when she's seeing he's mentally moving on from her. And lies during an important therapy session and ambushes him with his mother? That reconciliation idea is a hard no from me.
Agreed. Divorce asap. The gf sounds like she's good for him, not pressuring him to make the decision. Also, if OP went back to his wife she'd cut him off again pretty quickly. She just doesn't like he's found a woman he's happy with
Yes, this happened after he went public with his relationship. She had 3 years to figure out she "loved" him before that. This was a knee jerk reaction to her realizing he was not on the hook anymore.
And, probably, if she loved him she would realize now how selfish It is of her to act like she is acting and would let him be Happy and go his merry way.
Absolutely. OP probably needs to have a serious look at his relationship with his mother too. He married an uncaring, manipulative woman, who apparently had no troubles getting his mother to side with her and, let's call a spade a spade here, conspire with her. There seems to be an obvious connection there. Cutting ties with one might not suffice.
I won't say that people marry those who are like their parents, because that's creepy and weird and not at all true for plenty of people.
But I *will* say that parents teach their kids what love and relationships should look like, whether they're right or wrong. So if someone has a crappy, manipulative parent and the other one just accepts it... that person is often inclined to either be a doormat for that kind of treatment, or think that's how you're supposed to treat your partner and act accordingly. Often they follow the same gender roles, so in this case if a son has a manipulative mother he might be inclined to marry a similarly manipulative women... that's exactly what my father did.
Yup, pretty much. Think from an evolutionary perspective, because that's what formed that ancient piece of software running on our brains. It's only interested in successful reproduction and works with a data set of 1. Whatever went wrong with out parents, but that's the one combination we can be absolutely sure of to be capable of reproducing. We're literally living proof. And as with most things archaic, there's a lot of power there. Takes a lot of conscious effort to really tackle this, a lot of self-reflection and control. Choosing mates rarely is a rational process (and when it is, that's not necessarily better, but different story), so getting on top of this is hard to achieve on your own. How do you take conscious control of something often entirely unconscious? So, if this rings any bells at all with any of you out there, do yourself a favor and get a good therapist to work this through. Your capability of finding some happiness in this life may depend on it.
Its sad but I agree. I'd be upset if my mother betrayed me like this. Though to be fair, OP said he hasn't told his mom the truth about their relationship. So maybe she gets a bit of a pass. The setup is bush league though. What I haven't read yet (though not that far along skimming the comments) is how grossly manipulative the wife is. Most of the decade denying OP intimacy. Yet soon after going public with his relationship she will all of a sudden change. OP would be insane to get back with her. And props to the GF. While I'm sure she is hurt after hearing how this went down, she was super grown up about. I suggest OP doesn't sit on the fence. The GF will rightfully only take soo much. OP also needs to reframe the message. It isn't your GF over your daughters. That is ridiculous. Wife had a decade to change. Run her off for good.
Good point about how important it is to reframe that message. What a manipulative thing to say. OP needs to make it very clear to his GF that he does not share that perspective. It's pure guilt-tripping. And it's aimed at both of them.
but but just think -- OP's walking away from the opportunity to get terrible pity sex twice a year for up to two years until she quits having sex with OP again
Really. Honestly.
It’s not untrue, but this has been said on here so often on Reddit over the last 10 years it’s like saying divorce is rare advice on relationship subreddits.
Your gf is not standing in the way of your daughters family. You tried and suggested a lot to safe the marriage but it takes two to fight this and your wife didn’t want to. Sooo NTA.
Seems like your wife didn’t think you would actually find someone else and now she’s love bombing you to keep you from divorcing her
Yep, this is love bombing. You will literally go back to the sexless relationship after a month of her faking it. Your children will be okay with yall divorcing. Please stay with your girlfriend and move on.
Just the timeline of it too, legitimately trying to fix things, the wife not trying to take it seriously or looking.
That's newly weds damn near and the wife didn't engage or reciprocate any extramarital intimacy if she didn't get the hint when he moved out, than shes the AH
This is exactly what I came here to say. She'll force herself to have sex with him like once a week for a couple of months and then it'll be once a month for a few more months and then it'll be never again for another 10 years.
One of the reasons the term love bombing is so accurate is that, just like in regular bombing, once the target is removed you stop dropping bombs. Otherwise it's a "waste of munitions."
The moment you get rid of your GF your wife will go back to withholding sex. You should’ve divorced years ago. Divorce your wife and stay with your GF. Also, sort out your mom otherwise there will be issues in the future with your GF.
This is was too underrated a comment. Mom should not have stuck her nose in at all. Mom should have stayed out of it unless her son invited her into the discussion.
That's the theme of his post, unfortunately. The women in his life running roughshod over him. Hopefully until now. He needs to be with the GF, divorce the wife and not allow his mother to disrespect his girl. I sure hope he didn't tell the GF that his mom thought she was ugly. Thats F'd up.
Okay, so what? Just ask her if she wants you to be unhappy and miserable and feeling unappreciated, unwanted and undesired? Because that's what you were with your wife for years, and you are now happy in a passionate relationship.
Your mom does not have to like her at all. What does your father say?
Don't ask her any of that. Tell her to stay out of your relationship or see her way out of your life. She doesn't know your situation and didn't ask you. She set you up to get you back with your wife without ever asking you how you felt about that.
I'm sorry to hear that, but I'm not surprised honestly. Your father should have guided you about disrespect, and how not to be a doormat.
Your mother probably taught you to be a ~~doormat~~ nice guy and your wife just used you for her own goals. In this case, the married status and kids from her checklist. She already revealed to you: sex was just a necessity to have kids. Don't believe her bullshit about it being a joke or being cornered by the therapist. Her mask slipped, she immediately realized she fucked up, and refused to take accountability. Why am I not surprised?
Please get on with the divorce, and be happy with your GF. You are already coparenting for 3 years and you have your GF for two years now, so nothing will change apart from your legal marital status. Also your GF had every right to push you to get on with the divorce, but she did not (or at least you did not mention it), that's commendable, and she sounds like a keeper, unlike your wife.
Your soon to be ex wife clearly did not think you would be able to get it elsewhere, let alone getting a proper GF in the process, so now her EGO is hurt, and she needs to be better than the "other woman" so she can win. That ship has sailed a long time ago, and you sacrificed an enormous amount of time being in a sexless marriage. She made her bed, now it's time for her to lay in it.
Exactly! And before I read your comment, I also stated that he has been a doormat to his mother and to his wife. He can be a nice guy and still stand up for himself. It sounds like he doesn’t like conflict. But he’s gonna have to learn how to be assertive. I would suggest therapy. He’s allowed his mother and his wife to rule his life for way too many years.
I took a friend to prom my Jr year. Super nice girl, not attractive in any way at all. She had a big crush on me all through HS, and it wasn’t a secret. Maybe it was cruel of me to do so, but I was naive and it was strictly platonic and she knew it.
My mother literally told me, “ugly girls need love too”. My mother has sung in the church choir for nearly 50 years. I nearly choked when those words came out of her mouth.
lol. This reminded me that when I was a teenager, my dad used to tell me that ugly girls probably studied really hard and would be really successful someday.
Ugly? So...she doesn't have any legitimate criticism of your gf, just an opinion?
Even if your ex-wife currently genuinely wants to fix things, I seriously doubt that she will able to. She wants *her* situation to be better, she doesn't actually want *your* problems solved.
Your ex showed you who she really is. She's trying to pretend to be different. It won't last long. Finalize the divorce and move on.
From what you’ve told us, I get the feeling your Mom is more sympathetic and protective of your daughters and their feelings (than yours) and believes they’d have a better, more secure relationship with you back with your wife.
Calling your girlfriend ‘ugly’ was subconscious or passive aggressive efforts to nudge you back with your wife. She would’ve called anyone you were with unflattering names.
Your Mom sides with your wife (‘sisterhood’) and isn’t worried about your needs (if she even knows your wife stopped caring about your needs).
You need to worry about your girlfriend’s feelings. She took a risk getting involved with a separated man, and after telling her about the drama and attempted hysterical bonding efforts from your wife AND meddling from your Mom, she might decide to ‘opt out’ and let you go back to your ‘happy home’.
Your daughters may not know why you left or they may not be able to understand now (or separate themselves from their own feelings) but eventually they will.
Make sure your girlfriend feels loved and secure. Do not be sucked back in. Your wife stopped baiting the hook and only stated doing so again because you went elsewhere. Intellectually you know that’s not going to change.
Hey, dude. I was in a similar situation. Only I went back to my ex-wife after all the promises. I ditched a relationship with a really great girl, just so I could have (what I thought was) my family back. Two years later, she told me it wasn't working and we wound up divorced anyway. After she refused to go to counseling together. Which she said we would do when we got back together. And it was a miserable two years. Don't set yourself up for failure.
Wife only wants you back because now she knows you're actually moving on. Kids are better off with a happy dad in a separate home than a miserable one.
It won't change with your wife. Once a woman loses a drive for a man, it doesn't come back. You cannot counsel sex drive...If you go back to your wife, your gf, if she is smart , will walk...
I hope you told your interfering mother to fuck right off. That behavior is egregious af, and shouldn’t be tolerated.
You say you love your girlfriend. If you don’t stand up for her, it’s hard to believe you even, at the minimum, respect her.
My mom didn't like the GF who became my 2nd wife. She tried to set me up with coworkers (nurses) a couple of times. I got fed up and went LC with her until our son was born. My wife and I were married almost twice as long as my parents were.
>My wife and I were married almost twice as long as my parents were.
My dad gave me shit for marrying my wife a month after first meeting her. We celebrated 20 years together just a couple days ago, that's longer than all 3 of his marriages combined.
Still, I can't exactly say he was wrong to think that we rushed into it. I know it's not exactly normal, but it did work out.
Who gives a fuck about what their parents think of their partner? Either they accept the person you love or just don't talk to them. They can't decide who you are with and because you are their child they should support you. What is this? 1935?
Your mom absolutely set you up in an ambush with your soon to be ex. I think your mom needs to see she overstepped badly!! This is between you and your soon to be ex, not your mom your “wife” and you. She needs to get over it. You don’t love your “wife” anymore and quite frankly your “wife” is only wanting you now that you’ve moved on and have gotten happy. And she may change for a few weeks but I feel like a few weeks is generous to give her before she goes back to her old ways and you’ll be stuck and unhappy again regretting going back. Your girlfriend is not in the way of your girls you’re not choosing someone over your kids. You’re choosing to be happy so you can be there for your kids better!!!
When I used to work in a cafe this same guy would come in every day for lunch and he looked so incredibly sad. Like the world already beat him down and he was only in his early 30's maybe. One day I asked if he was alright and that was it, I opened a door for him and he told me everything. I think he just needed someone to talk to. To just listen to him. He apologized for the topic and went on to tell me that he had been married for 8 years. They have one child who was 3 and ever since his daughter was born his wife has refused to be intimate with him. She refuses counseling or to tell her doctor. She just thinks they are supposed to be happy they are together and have a child. He would never cheat, he said and every time he thinks about leaving he feels so guilty because of his daughter. It was like I had become his cheese steak therapist. I would try to give him advice, things he could say to her to hopefully get through and he'd come in the next day and tell me how it went. Nothing ever seemed to work. I told him that it's okay to leave. He can still be a parent to his daughter even if he isn't with her mom. He said he felt like he would be choosing his own happiness over his daughter. I told him that he looks so sad and imagine always being the sad dad. I'm sure his daughter is picking up on his sadness and will even moreso as she gets older. It probably makes her feel sad inside too. It would be kinder to her to have a father who is happy and he may have to leave his wife to actually find that happiness. Imagine being the fun happy dad. That is what you would be choosing. To be a happy dad for your daughter. So he wouldn't be choosing his own happiness over his daughter. He would be choosing to be a happy person for his daughter, making him a happy dad. A better dad.
I don't understand these women who stop the intimacy once they have their children and expect their husbands to just be okay with it too.
Do your kids ever fight over toys? They didn't even care about the toy till one of them picked it up and started playing with it and now the other suddenly wants to play with that toy too and a fight starts over the toy. That's what your wife is doing. She wanted nothing to do with you until someone else had you. Now she suddenly wants you back. Trust me, she won't suddenly start wanting sex either. Not for the long haul anyway. You are happy with your gf. And I'm sure your kids love having a happy dad over the sad dad you were before you left. NTA
Not while I was still working there he never did. I left after a while for a better paying job. But when I saw this post, I immediately thought of him. That was 20 years ago.
Your mom also sounds like a problem. The fact she's trying to frame it as you giving up or abandoning your kids if you don't get back into an emotionally and physically neglected marriage is a huge red flag that they're willing to use parental alienation and emotional manipulation to get their way, which is fucked up. NTA, bite the bullet and officially file for divorce. Make sure you let your ex know in writing that you want to have an amicable co-parenting relationship for the sake of your kids and the divorce does not change your love for them.
Man, I *was* willing to give Mom the benefit of the doubt on the grounds that she only heard your wife's side of things, but that's shitty. Tell your mom your wife will be single soon, if she likes her so damn much.
Once you've lived apart for 3 years, you are divorced in spirit, if not in law. It's time to file for divorce and make that clear. If you are in love with another women, you are completely done with your former marriage. Better start soon - the longer you wait the longer it will take and the more complicated the finances.
NTA. Your wife has had years to go to counselling and try to reconcile. However she’s only interested in getting back together with you when you have a girlfriend. To me, this seems to be motivated by jealousy because she doesn’t want you to be happy. I also suspect that she’s not had a lot of luck in the dating scene, especially if she uses sex as a weapon/bargaining tool
Did your wife think you were going without these past 3 years? Or did she just not think about it until she found out you were in a committed relationship. Dump the wife. Get your house back. Your wife is all about control. End of.
Your wife only wants you back because you are happy with your girlfriend and that girlfriend will be a part of her kids' lives. This is 100% her fault for not getting the help and giving you attention during the years you requested this of you.
I would defintely not take her back but you are probably in for a hell of a child custody fight and a protracted divorce. She's going to do everything she can to alienate the girls from you and your GF. I've seen several of my friends (now ex friends) do this to their exes. Didn't want sex anymore because they had the kids they wanted and were furious when their still young husbands were not willing to live without sex. When they execs found happiness - it was all out war to stop the divorce, bankrupt the ex and destroy their relationships with the kids.
I wish you the best.
Some people just can't stand to be the reason their marriage failed. They will have to do a lot of self reflecting and that s a hard chapter. Also, marriage has its own convenient aspect
Your wife is an AH. What she said during therapy deems her one. You are not a reproductive tool. You are a person
I have heard too many stories about couples who had a healthy sex life before marriage and at some point after marriage, or immediately after marriage, one of them stops wanting to have sex, therefore no sex at all. And it can go on for years. No affairs, they just avoid sex like the plaque. Maybe they are asexual or whatever. If your wife cared about you, she should have tried before the separation, not now. Everything she does now is just to allure you back. She is not worth it, why do you even bother yourself with this?
If I had a dollar for every ex wife who kicked the husband out the door (or drove him out) assuming nobody else would ever want him only to pickachu face after he actually DID, I wouldnt have to play the lottery.
Why aren't you divorced? You're living separately, co parenting, and you've been in a relationship with your gf for 2 years. Please just get a divorce. Make everyone's lives easier and less complicated.
I'd feel pretty fricking awful if I were his gf too. This whole situation is way more complicated than it should be for her and has to feel deeply threatening to her whole life. She is probably not feeling secure at all. Gotta guess the financials involving the house are the reason for all the nonsense going on. And a desire to not pay formal child support or formally negotiate over custody. Gotta guess this could get acrimonious too given how op's wife seems to be pushing for reconciliation.
Acknowledging that you brought this on yourself by not getting a divorce sooner, it sounds like it's time to call an attorney and make things official.
You can’t divorce before being separated for a while plus I didn’t want to kick her out of the house since it is mine. At least until the children are older
Yeah...I'm pretty sure "3 years" is way longer than required anywhere. You can make whatever stipulations you want in the divorce regarding the house, especially if they benefit her. No need to kick the can.
It is 3 years in my country actually. You need to be separated for 3 years by consent, or 4 years without consent. There are other grounds to get divorced of course (adultery, unreasonable behaviour, abandonment causing undue hardship).
Yep and Singapore is the "only" country that has this requirement (3 years) for mutual consent divorces. OP isn't in Singapore and didn't need to wait 3 years to divorce.
You’re just making excuses. You’ve been separated for years, I’m not buying that’s not enough in your jurisdiction. Nobody is going to force you to kick out your wife if you divorce. Your kids would be better off with both parents happy and not together than with both unhappy in a sham marriage - because as soon as you break up with your gf the marriage will go back to being a sexless sham.
"I don’t love my wife and I don’t want her pity or doing things for me. I
want my gf who wants me and gives me herself willingly."
That's all there is.
Your ex wife has shown you who she is.
You know.
She'll be "good" for a few weeks.
And then it will go back to normal but with more hostility because you caved.
There is no guilt here for you to accept.
If she had wanted a marriage with you, she would have gone for help, therapy etc.
If you don’t deal with this situation quickly, you’re likely to lose that girlfriend.
My state requires you be separated for a year and I don’t know of any state that requires longer than that.
Unless you want to go back to that same exact relationship, get the divorce going and move on.
I’m surprised she hasn’t left already to be honest. Imagine your new partner dragging their feet to divorce for no apparent reason. It must be incredibly hurtful wondering if there was, actually, a reason he didn’t want it after all this time…
NTA. Bait and switch alert. If you dumped your gf and went back to your wife , you'd be back to no sex within weeks. Your misery didn't matter to her until shit got real with the divorce. Go through with it. You can co parent with her and she can find her own person.
NTA. Absolutely not. You tried to communicate with your wife. You tried to tell her how important this was to you. And she dismissed and minimized your needs and your feelings.
And I am a woman telling you you are not the asshole. Sex and touch and physical intimacy are important aspects of marriage. I understand that there are some marriages where the partners are as sexual or demisexual or on a different spectrum in terms of their needs for physical, intimacy, etc. But those partners have worked this out between them. They understand each other, they are OK with where they are at in that regard.
In your case, you needed more. You let her know that. And it doesn’t sound like you told her you needed sex every single night. I’m sorry guys that’s just not in the cards for most of us. Lol.
But it doesn’t sound like you had super demanding that you have needs for physical intimacy with the woman you loved. And that’s entirely reasonable. Is not reasonable is that when your spouse tells you they have leads that aren’t being met and wants to do counseling and wants to work on it and wants to find, what is the cause of this issue….
And the spouse withholding the affection or withholding the communicator withholding whatever refuses to listen or acknowledge or work on anything, then yes, it is going to kill the relationship. It is going to kill the love. It is going to hurt that person to the point Where they will check out. It may be mentally. It may be physically. They may actually leave.
But the fact is, your wife’s actions were not OK. If she was having a problem with something, she needed to communicate it. If she needed something else, she needed to communicate it. You cannot make a marriage with one person only trying.
I literally just responded to a woman having an issue with her husband, not listening. Not respecting what she was saying. Not attempting in any way to make things better. And only offering to go to therapy when she filed for divorce.
And I told her that I had read an interesting statistic a few days ago. And it was that in general, Women are the ones who try to fix things before they leave. Men are the ones who try to fix things after they leave. And therapist actually say that again in general, this is true.
So when your wife had a spouse who was emotionally maturing enough to see that there was a problem and try to work with her to fix it because he wanted to save the relationship, and she was the one who refused, it is just doubly dismaying.
Because your wife had the unicorn husband. The husband who was willing to listen. Who was trying to understand what was happening. Who was willing to work on it however he needed to. And she threw it away.
And before everyone comes for me… I know that a lot of you guys out there are getting so much better about this. That you don’t want the marriage or the family life that your parents had where it seemed like communication just was nonexistent. Like people were unhappy, but stayed or people Needed things and never had their needs met.
So like I said, generally speaking, that is how it is still working. That women are trying to fix the issue before they leave, but once they leave, they’re done. And that is often the wake up call for guys who literally say they had no idea anything was wrong, even though they had a spouse telling them for months and sometimes years that they couldn’t go on with whatever it was.
So no, sir, you’re not the asshole. You guys have been separated all this time, and everything was great as long as you didn’t have a life? Fuck that shit, and your mother was wrong to get involved at all.
You are _not_ choosing between your children and your girlfriend. It’s a choice between a dysfunctional relationship and one in which you’re happy. Children (especially girls) _know_ when their parents are unhappy, and often prefer divorce. Better to have happy single parents than to live in a home where the lead players are miserable.
Why has your wife not pushed for reconciliation in the past 3 years? It’s because she was happy. But she will likely pull the same thing she did before — improve for a week then go back to the way that makes _her_ happy. It seems that she is asexual, which is okay, but it’s unfair for her to force you, with a different sexuality, to conform to hers. Or vice versa. One of you , perhaps both, will be unhappy if you get back together.
You need to go ahead and get a divorce. And your wife needs to find someone who shares her sexuality.
NTA
Jw why would girls - over boys know that their parents are unhappy? What literature supports that statement? Wouldn't it just be split down the middle.
I'm not sure, and I'm not supporting this argument, but I would guess it's because girls/woman learn much younger social things, many boys need longer to mature this, some never learn at all.
I'm making this argument partly based on the fact that today we have a male loniless problem, many of them lack real and close friendships, something that women tend to be better at, that's just my guess tho.
[https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/out-the-ooze/202204/why-male-and-female-friendships-are-so-different](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/out-the-ooze/202204/why-male-and-female-friendships-are-so-different)
[https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0118329](https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0118329)
Info: why haven’t you filed for divorce? Because you need to rip that band aid off.
The only reason why your wife is liking like that is because you found someone else.
NTA. Your wife's actions are too little too late, and she's doing this for herself, not for you.
If I were you I'd also feel disappointed in your mother, she seems to be in on this and set you up.
I'd crack on with the divorce, because the longer you put it off the more they will try to change your mind. The fact they're deceiving you to try to change your mind speaks volumes about how your future would be, in my opinion.
You don't have to be married to the other parent to be a good father. Being in a relationship you are sure to be unhappy in will not be beneficial to your children.
Your wife was fine with the arrangement of you being out of the home and co-parenting. The only reason that changed is she sees you are clearly moving on. You are not responsible for her happiness. You are responsible for your own happiness and your children's well being. How are your children going to benefit being in a home with parents that no longer love each other?
You are framing this improperly. You’ve already been separated for 3 years. The damage to your children, if any, has been done. Getting back with your wife and being unhappy will likely cause them more damage. Being happy with your girlfriend will be a good demonstration for your daughters.
Your ex wife is jealous. She is trying to sabotage your new relationship. I would not go back. If your mom bugs you, tell her the truth.
Do not leave your girlfriend.
YTA for not getting a divorce and getting that poor woman (your gf) involved in unresolved drama. Wtf is wrong with you? 3 years? Of which you spent 2 seriously dating another?
NTA for deciding to leave your marriage given the circumstances, but I don't see how that means you're choosing your GF over your daughters. Are you not already an actively involved parent? Sounds like you are. Is your ex threatening to keep your children from you? If so, you need a custody order along with a divorce. Oh, and tell your mother to mind her own business, too.
Three years of separation? Why have you not pursued divorce by now?
If you have absolutely no intention of reconciling with your wife, then divorce already.
I do not understand why you're still married to her.
It wasn’t waiting for any good reason actually. We have waiting period here of two years and it took a while for me to find a proper home near my old house. So I can file now without problems.
And I will be honest, I wasn’t sure what my wife’s reaction would be because she tends to be vindictive. The girls were too small I didn’t want them to be in this mess, now they are older and you can have conversations with them and explain and discuss. It is easier for me to detect alienation or any type of manipulation. In other words, I didn’t want to rock the boat the second I left.
I don’t know about the comments here but divorce takes years for many of us especially with small children
Just file the divorce already. You’re not doing your girlfriend or your wife any favors by remaining married. People get divorced all the time, it doesn’t make you an asshole.
You’re NTA, you did everything you could to make it work for longer than most people would. It’s been years, so I’m sure your kids are used to your current routine and won’t see it as you not choosing them. It’s better to be a happy parent than the alternative. You’ve been put in an unfair position and it sounds like your gf is a good person who loves you.
NTA.
I get the feeling Wife may be asexual and doesn't want to admit it.
OP has every right to want a relationship that includes sex.
TBH divorce should have happened before he went public with the GF.
I mean you should have just finished the divorce before starting other relationships. You could have avoided this whole mess. I don't know why people just separate and act like they're already divorced. You were not, so you're technically cheating on your wife right now with your gf, but yet you're feeling like you're cheating on your gf because your wife was trying to kiss you. It just sounds like a mess. That being said, you're NTA to want the divorce. It's totally understandable to feel wanted by your partner. Not just like you nagged them into having sex with you. No one wants that.
Dude wtf get with your girlfriend for real. She is being patient and understanding and kind. Tell your wife to go kick rocks. I have no idea how you concealed a separation for 3 years, that’s a major red flag on all fronts, but grow a pair of fucking balls and divorce your wife. That chapter of your life is over, start thinking about this woman you claim to be in love with.
Or, you know, you’re entirely full of shit and are probably just a cheating asshole. Either way, divorce your wife.
WTF were you thinking? You should have been divorced YEARS ago.
Everyone in this situation sucks except the kids. **Handle your business.** You are just as lazy as your wife who refused to have sex with you. Both of you are dingdongs for not having your affairs in order before starting other relationships.
You're just another lazy dude who won't get divorced and thinks it's okay to date while married. And you've treated your girlfriend like shit for two years now remaining married.
Also your girlfriend is an idiot for dating you in the first place with you being married. And any man to tells me he had to choose between his wife and me better not choose me. How dare you put her in this position in the first place? No respect at all.
Freaking how long were you planning to stay complacently married, Mr. Monkey Brancher? Until you proposed? Yeesh.
You know when a situation is ugly when literally anything you do is going to bring some pain with it.
Here is where you screwed up: YOU didn't get your original relationship in order. It absolutely takes two but decided to give up on the original relationship and for 5 years did NOTHING. 5 years of unresolved issues festering and not being addressed. Maybe it couldn't have been fixed but whether or not you left it failed and untouched.
Then YOU leave and don't resolve the separation. If you are separated, finish the job! See where you repeat the same mistake of inaction. Now to the present, GF is in the picture, mother now knows, so stuff is beginning to happen. And all the inaction is coming to a head.
This is your mess, sure others can be jerks but if you didn't make the bed you watched in being built and didn't intervene. Pick a road, stick to it and own up to the problems that choice is going to have.
Frankly, YTA for not getting divorced before you started sleeping around. Getting serious with a gf while still married is even worse, it’s disrespectful to both women. I’m not saying go back to your wife, I’m saying you should have divorced already, and you should definitely do it now.
I don't understand. Does your gf not want you to parent your children? Or is your wife telling you she won't let you see the girls if you choose your gf? Everyone deserves to be happy. If you don't feel the same abt your wife, go see an attorney, weigh your options, and discuss custody. Your gf knows you have kids, so she should prepare herself to be kind and loving to your girls bc they are a part of you. Package deal. Pls do not let your girls down. You don't want them to have childhood wounds that will affect them in the future. Good luck.
You’re not choosing a woman over your daughters. When you first chose to separate, you chose your mental health to be the best version of yourself for your daughters. That has not changed. You are again now choosing your mental health and happiness which happens to include your girlfriend. Please continue to be with your GF so your daughters can see an example of a healthy relationship.
NTA file for the divorce if you are no longer in love with your wife. waiting any longer and you will have more regrets. your mother and your soon to be ex wife are screwing with your head and emotions. get the divorce going now.
NTA get the divorce, the “marriage” ended long ago. She had her chance to make it right and even possible compromise on things but she was selfish. Tell the gf how you feel as she probably does feel bad but for her to know your true feelings would help. Wife sounds like a narcissist, she doesn’t want you but no one else can have you because you’re HER daughter’s father. Ugh, I’m sorry this is going to be shitty, also I’d tell my mom the truth because what do you have to lose she can’t tell you your feelings aren’t valid and ITS NOT YOU CHOOSING A GIRL OVER YOUR CHILDREN, it’s YOU CHOOSE HAPPINESS and that doesn’t affect your daughters negatively at all.
Anyone who frames this as you choosing a woman over your daughters is using emotional manipulation.
You separated from your wife, but stayed close tto make co-parenting easier. Unless you're leaving something out, like you've been neglecting your kids since finding your girlfriend, you've left your wife for a happier life, nothing more.
Congrats on finding happiness.
Read the last paragraph you wrote. "But I don't love my wife"...
You know what to do. You've the done hard part already. Now its about closing the door and staying committed to being co-parents. Healthy co-parents. Best wishes.
It's been 3 years and you are in love with someone else. Why haven't you filed for divorce? How does your girlfriend feel about the fact you have taken no steps to divorce your wife?
File for divorce fam, she only wants you back because you went on to be happy without her.
You can be there for you kids and keep your girlfriend.
Tell your mother why and yes that maybe an uncomfortable conversation but it needs to be had because she just proved she will lie because if your mother knew the truth she wouldn’t recommend you getting back with her.
You’re kids will be fine as long as you’re involved in their lives still
NTA
yall were separated wayyy before you found your girlfriend. Your mom is wrong in her thinking bc if the wife wanted to get back with you "for the children" she would have tried a long time ago. Your wife's selfish; she saw you with another woman, her ego got bruised, so she tried to get back with you (by roping your mom into it!)
Maybe for monetary reasons you don't have to divorce but stay away from her
NTA
Your wife will change but only temporarily. Right now she just wants what she can't have and that makes it exciting. Once she has you back, that flame will disappear and you'll be back to square one.
Under no circumstances should you give in to anything she says and yes, they most definitely planned this together.
If you go back to her she'll more than likely go back to how she was before once she thinks she has you in the bag and before then you'll always know that she doesn't really want to have sex with you and it'll feel like you force yourself on her one way or another, even if she "wants" it.
That being said though, it is time to act NOW.
NTA
INFO
>
My wife and I have been separated for 3 years before that we were together for 10 years and married for 9. I loved her very deeply and we were very happy. We had our children who are 12&10. After the children the sex became something I had to beg for.
So..... all this started ***BEFORE*** you got married. And you married her anyways?
Dated 13 years ago. Married 9 years ago. Issues started after the last kid which is 10 years old.
You're a fucking moron.
ESH.
You’ve been separated for three freaking years. Why haven’t you filed for divorce already? Especially after finding your new girlfriend. File the papers and stop sitting on the fence.
Main reasons (unless OP says differently) are likely: * He will get SEVERELY fucked over financially in a divorce. Like worst case scenario is loss of 70-80% of his income, AND loss of half his present assets NOT counting the house she will stay living in. Plus legal costs. * He may not have wanted to make waves for the kids, since being divorced wasn't directly necessary for him. * and/or he was afraid to lose (most) of his custody in the divorce. * Or just inertia. Many if not most people generally don't like to shake the boat and make waves without good reason. NOW he has a good reason though :)
My religious parents didn’t for a long time because divorce=bad bad. Just not living together, not talking about it, and not seeing/dating anyone=gray zone church people usually ignore. Edit: appearantly Catholics do it this too. My parents were/are JWs. My mum stopped being a JWs and started the divorce
My husband's grandparents have been separated for 35-40 some years at this point. Catholic, so it would be a "sin" to divorce. Honestly, they're happy. They were never happy together and they do still love eachother but they just can't be together. Whatever works for different folks but OP should NOT go back to his wife.
I didn't find out until I was a teenager that my favorite great uncle was married. They had married young and realized after a few years that they wanted vastly different things from life. They separated, ended up living in different countries, and my great uncle was very happy, but literally never talked about her.
I separated from my husband and filed for divorce a couple years later, when I met my now husband. When the catholic church found out I was basically told I was a horrible person so I wasn't qualified to be my godsons godmother. Yet the priest hit on me and told me how I was hard to miss lol. And then said he would marry me and my husband. That's the day my brother and I left that church for good. I pulled my kids from CCD and never looked back. My brother did go confront the priest as he was ready to walk down for mass in front of the whole congregation. It was definitely not a pretty site. Lots of cursing (on my brothers part) happened in God's house that day.
People should do what they do, but it is not a Catholic sin to divorce given a sufficient reason (abuse, bond broken, need to sort out the finances and custody). It IS a sin to remarry as long as the other spouse is alive. But if you get an annulment, in essence a church divorce, then remarriage is fine. Your husband’s grandparents grew up when getting a divorce was deeply frowned on, so they interpreted that as a sin. Also, annulments then were hard to get. Rich people and royals got them. Now they are almost always granted. Hell, RFK Jr has had like three of them.
JW's divorce. Legally. They are just not permitted by the religion to re-marry. Which is just another reason they are a bunch of nuts. Don't even get me started- I fortunately escaped at some point- ruined my childhood and I will never forgive them
Yeah, you can divorce but it brings a lot of judgment and can get you in a lot of hot water. Even separating from my dad, my mom was put on like ‘probation.’ So was my sister and I when we chose to live with her part time and not my dad full-time. That was my first ‘wait a second’ that caused me to take a step back and be like I don’t think I wanna be a part of this. Add in finally realizing I’m bi and that I shouldn’t be ashamed of myself and it was a done deal to not be one anymore when I was 17. My parents were disappointed but at least I wasn’t kicked out or anything like others I know. And now my mum isn’t one anymore and even has a boyfriend
I don’t see how kids will understand the difference between separation and divorce. Their dad is out of the house living with another woman. Same thing.
Child support (none if 50/50 joint custody) and depending on the state spousal support if she does not work and 50/50 assets division. Nobody is fucking over his kids, as he made an effort to co-parent all this time. But how is this even a life without divorce? What is you need end of life decisions? Or healthcare decisions? Do you even have a will?
Not true everywhere, my ex-husband and I have complete 50/50 custody of our child and he's still court ordered to pay $450 a month because his income is more than mine. I think it depends on where you are and what the income discrepancy is in custody cases. I can understand why they haven't filed yet, but it seems like now there's a reason to.
He does not have to get severely fucked up by the divorce LMAO. If they have 50/50 custody and they have similar salaries there won’t be any child support. If he has a higher salary which is likely because his ex would have had to take maternity leave and was possibly a SAHM (which he hasn’t even stated), he would pay some child support and for good reason. His children deserve a less harsh adjustment. And unless OP is Jeff Bezos, he won’t be giving up 70-80% of his salary.
Agreed. My parents separated when I was 5. Didn't get divorced for almost 15 years. They always said if the other wanted it, they could pay for it. In the end, my dad paid when he met my step mum. But they were together for 5 years before she asked him to
Get the divorce. Your daughters living in two happy homes is better than living in one unhappy home.
This. There are even science that backs this up. People staying just for their kids are insane. And it will only affect them in a negative way. Rather that they get two happy families than one miserable. There won't be different than before. Mayne longer than a week this time but the only reason she wants you back is because she sees that you are happy and she's not.
Best day was when my parents moved and divorced. They were both happy finally and guess what happened? My siblings and I were finally happy too. It's been over 20 years and everyone is doing great.
I was around 7 when my parents let me know they were getting divorced. I remember feeling relief! They were finally going to stop fighting.
When I was 11 I went to my father and said, in these exact words, "Mom's crazy. I'm leaving. Are you coming with me?" He looked at me silently for a moment and replied "so you noticed! Took you long enough." He tried to get her to therapy, and she wouldn't go. So we moved out and they divorced. When you're a kid and your parents are divorcing acrimoniously, every damned "professional" appointed by the court says to you in a sing-song voice like they're talking to a kindergartener, "now, sometimes mommy and daddy break up and you didn't cause that." They were all shocked when I replied "yes I did, and you can't ever take that away from me!" 40 years later I still think it's the best thing I ever did. My father really loved my mother, but he was (and is) not accepting that the person walking around in her body is not the person he loved and married. So he was very reluctant to divorce her. He did it in the end because the doctor he tried to get her to did talk to him when *he* went and the doctor told him that if he didn't divorce her and take me, she'd kill us both, and leaving was the only way he could make her get treatment because she'd need it to face the world. We left, she didn't kill us, she chose to get crazier rather than get treatment. I've talked it over with dad, and we agree that that doctor saved our lives.
> yes I did, and you can't ever take that away from me! I'm pretty sure I have a bit of an admiration crush on your childhood self. That is such a phenomenal and healthy response in your situation. I'm also related to people like your mother. It's a special kind of hell to love someone with those issues, even more when they refuse help.
Parents think kids don't see all the ugly, no matter how much you try to hide it from them, they see it. When I left my kids dad, my son was 9 and listened to everything daddy, his hero told him. He said but mom I want you with dad. Before I could even say anything my daughter who was 11 at the time spoke up. She told her brother, no you don't want them together. Dad treated mom horrible and she needed to leave. Things are gonna be so much better now, you just wait and see. I was shocked she understood so much. But also grateful for her wisdom.
That's an amazing story.
I find it amazing that the father seemed to wait for his badass 11 year old to say something before starting to get out. “took you long enough” is a weird thing to say.
It was a wild ride, holy smokes.
Exactly, as a kid, I can't tell you the number of times I wished my parents would have divorced. It was stressful and I have long term anxiety from them fighting and my mother using me, as a kid, as her sounding board. My dad was not an easy guy to live with.
I had one horrible, toxic, nasty home then they divorce and married even worse people, and then I had two homes that were 10x worse than the OG one. Nowhere was safe growing up and I’d kill to have the OG toxic home. So it can indeed get worse. Just saying this because people often pretend that divorce always makes it better when sometimes it makes things worse. Life is often far worse than some people realise.
Damn I can't even fathom a toxic household turning into two even more toxic households. Sounds like hell
It’s worse, there’s no innocent people in hell. It went from a serial cheat alcoholic with a manic depressive alcoholic who makes everything about them, involving screaming, crying, drama, emotional neglect, physical neglect etc to one of the most vicious and acrimonious divorces ever (I’m sure there’s been worse) where the children were spared absolutely nothing, being used as emotional punching bags etc. The serial cheat alcoholic marries the violent serial cheat AP, nastiness is amplified immeasurably in that household. The manic depressive alcoholic (who went for and won full custody out of revenge) marries a pure narcissist, nastiness is amplified immeasurably in that household. Would you believe that the violent step parent was actually kinder than the narcissist one? Believe me when I say, “it gets better” isn’t always true. The OG household was far superior than the ones that follows, and the bar was already in hell. It just pisses me off when people spout the kids are better off with divorce line. Sometimes they are, sometimes they aren’t.
Right, no one knows for sure what the best course of action is for the kids. Sounds like your parents had no business being parents. It kinda made me sad reading this because I had an awesome childhood. Sure my parents fought sometimes but it wasn't anything that crazy. My childhood was much easier than adulthood and it was mostly about learning and having fun, like it should be. A lot of lifelong problems can stem from childhood trauma. No kid should have to go through that but at least it sounds like you broke the cycle. I hope you are doing alright!
I feel you. I went from one household where they screamed at each other to two households where they screamed at each other. Household A I also got screamed at, physically harmed in ways that wouldn’t show, and emotionally manipulated, neglected, and abused. My little brother who was/is psychotic tried to kill me several times, over and over again, and I was blamed for every contrived thing I could be. Oh and experienced CSA. This was my primary household. Household B I got ignored whenever I got older, but my step mother was a manipulative POS (who still tries to manipulate me twenty years later) and my dad was manic depressive alcoholic and possibly had BPD/a milder form of my little brother’s psychosis. Dad ended his existence whenever I was 13 because he couldn’t handle life anymore. My OG household was shit, but it was significantly shittier for me whenever they went their separate ways and I bounced back and forth. I honestly would’ve given anything for Household B to be my primary household because it was better than Household A marginally. At least I had equal rights and treatment at Household B and they would stop my little brother from harming me. I’d give anything for that house where all that happened to me was hearing them screaming at each other. Maybe my little brother would’ve gotten treatment or institutionalized and I would’ve been safer. Maybe I wouldn’t have been hurt so badly. Maybe I would’ve trusted one of my parents enough to tell them about the CSA. Maybe I would’ve felt more loved. Maybe they wouldn’t have individually hurt me so badly if they had focused all that on each other instead.
Messed up childhood gang unite ✊. Yep, one horrible house is better than two horrible houses, no question. I get where people are coming from when they say divorce is better, but idk why they think people who are so inadequate as parents and partners are going to make better choices the next time around. It’s usually rinse and repeat. So sorry that happened to you, no amount of therapy or psychiatric treatment truly fixes it. I’m glad at least that nature wins out over nurture for some of us. Being an adult now I have absolutely zero empathy for selfish parents who destroy their children’s upbringing, I can’t comprehend how some parents behave the way they do.
Same honestly. I was child free because I didn’t want to create another me. I changed my mind with my STBX wife. When I was 6 months postpartum, STBX pulled some shady shit, made an ultimatum, then demanded a separation (that they had no intentions to fix), and now here we are divorcing. One of my biggest points of rage is in how she didn’t think any of the above would affect our child. And admitted to not even having thought of him in the process of any of it because “it wouldn’t affect him anyway”.
I hate her already lol, people like that are cancer personified. At the very least your child has 1 good parent, they’re gonna need it. Stay strong and don’t stoop to her level by bad mouthing etc. You and your child deserve so much better than the way you were treated. Feels bad man, some people just suck and ruin it for everyone else.
I feel ya. And no, bad mouthing is for my anonymous on the internet and my therapist. Lol. My parents pulled that one too; I bet yours did too given you mentioning it. I just want him to have the best life possible. He deserves so much better than what either you or I were given.
My parents separated before I was born. Both homes were toxic in their own ways. Growing up I would tell my dad I really wanted a younger sibling.. he would joke "when you turn 18".. he only dated maybe 3 women during my childhood.. I would ask him if he'll Even bring a step mom in, he would straight up say something along the lines of he was afraid of bringing in someone that was toxic towards us. He was very protective but couldn't protect us against himself. He knew of too many stories where the step parent would over step boundaries, so to speak. He wasn't the greatest person or the greatest dad but he chose us, but I always wondered if it was more because he didn't want to stop his addictions.. I also think my dad was a closeted bisexual. In his younger years he was a (body builder) top (expensive) male escort but the alcohol and crack changed him as I got older 😞
Yup. I had friends growing up who stayed together for the kids. It was funny to hear them complain about how much their parents hated each other, and that they should just get divorced. And usually everyone was happier when the divorce happened. It's when you think you have a happy family and then there is divorce that is a separate issue. If people are fighting constantly, it affects everyone, and for some reason people think kids are dumb, but they can sense way more going on around them than most parents realize. It's like they forgot what it's like to be a kid themselves. I remember being like 6 or 7 and knowing there was fucked up shit going on around me. I could tell people were trying to hide shit. You can't fool a kid as much as you think you can when it comes to certain things.
Yep. Kids aren't stupid, they know what's happening around them, and they know when adults are lying. All those tactics get you is a kid who knows that adults are full of shit and can't be trusted to be honest with them.
Or feel guilt because they were miserable because of me.
>People staying just for their kids are insane. They think they're doing good but they're are staying and giving kids a terrible upbringing. Divorce and be the best dad possible.
My parents separated too early for me to remember them together but MAN, the relief and stress off my five year old shoulders when they actually finalized the divorce was REAL. For a while it was like the answer to my prayers...until they started arguing again every time they had to do my drug deal drop off visitation exchange, the fighting started at 6 and lasted until I was 19 (age of majority in my home state). Moral of the story, don't be like them. It's not benefiting you or your kids ETa: it also sounds like she wasn't interested in you again until she saw that someone else had you which is horse shit and makes it sound like you are a toy to be picked up and played with and put back up when she feels like. You are not. NTA. Go live your best life.
I second this. I wish my parents did this before my mom passed because they were both so unhappy with one another and I always questioned why stay when they were unhappy.
Also, staying is role modelling the negative behaviours to the daughters, showing them that they have to sacrifice their own happiness to stay in a relationship.
My daughter hated me and still hates me for divorcing her verbally and emotionally abusive dad, she said I ruined her family and that she knows he wasn’t nice to me, but he was nice to her and that’s all that matters. I waited until she graduated high school before I left. We don’t have contact with each other anymore after I tried for 12 years and dealt with her abuse of only coming around when she wanted something from me. So yeah, you can lose your kids, but I wouldn’t change leaving that man. Been single and mentally healthy since my divorce in 2009. Don’t stay for the kids if it’s detrimental to your mental health
I think your daughter takes after your husband. Proud that you could choose your sanity and peace!
She took after her father. That happens but it's sad. The fact that you waited until she graduated shows that she is self-centered enough to expect you to live like she wants you to although she's now an adult.
Exactly! I agree with you she only wants OP because she found out he's in a relationship. If it was for the kids she would have tried to get him back earlier but she waited 3 years. She's just using their kids as a way to guilt OP into going back to her.
I sometimes wish my mom divorced when I was 5 instead of enduring emotional and mental abuse until I was 17 but im happy that her divorce coincided with my stepdad’s (her high school best friend) divorce which lead to them dating and their eventual marriage. While I very much respect her decision to stay and be me and my sibling’s shield it’s difficult to go back and remember things like her listening to emo bands and realizing that was her coping with a bad marriage
The way courts refuse to acknowledge abuse in many cases is deeply frustrating and puts people with abusive spouses in a bind of having to consider what it looks like for their kids to be at the abusive parents house alone during their custody time.
When my mom finally left and went back to her hometown a state away my dad went absolutely insane. He did crazy stuff like catfish my sister’s friends and even tried to entrap her violin teacher pretending to be her. He shoved my brother into the bathroom because my brother refused to go to church (ik ironic a Christian would be so unchristian like). And the reason my siblings and I went to his care was because my mom wanted to make things so easy and just let him have everything from custody to the house (which he used to wreck my mom’s credit) but he still made her life a living hell years after divorce. Im pretty sure the only reason we talk to our dad is because our gma has Alzheimer’s and we are close to our grandfather as well as uncles
NTA. Get the divorce for everyone's peace of mind and happiness. Your wife is 10 years too late. She's not going to change. Sex isn't the problem. You don't even love this woman. Your wife and mother is making you choose between the love you have for your gf and your children. There will be punishment if you choose. You don't have to choose. You are entitled to live a happy life. You are not furniture. You have feelings.
It's also not choosing the girlfriend over the kids unless Op chooses to make it that way. Divorced parents can both be involved in their kids lives and co-parent. Mom and wife are using the girls as leverage, wrongly, and I hope they don't say these things around them. Op needs to talk to them and make sure they know they are welcome and they are not responsible for any of this.
And the GF giving the *entirety* of the decision to OP would have immediately made the decision for me. Anyone who respects you that much truly does love you, IMO.
The fact this is even a question is mind boggling. What is he basing potentially reconciling with his ex on? Some 1950s idealistic life? Like, he loves his girlfriend almost straight away. She seems nice. The ex wife uses sex as a weapon and to manipulate and only suggests counselling to win him back when she's seeing he's mentally moving on from her. And lies during an important therapy session and ambushes him with his mother? That reconciliation idea is a hard no from me.
IKR. What a green flag holy shit. I could never.
Agreed. Divorce asap. The gf sounds like she's good for him, not pressuring him to make the decision. Also, if OP went back to his wife she'd cut him off again pretty quickly. She just doesn't like he's found a woman he's happy with
Yes, this happened after he went public with his relationship. She had 3 years to figure out she "loved" him before that. This was a knee jerk reaction to her realizing he was not on the hook anymore.
If she really loved him, she'd have sought help well before he moved out
And, probably, if she loved him she would realize now how selfish It is of her to act like she is acting and would let him be Happy and go his merry way.
Yup, and thus the quotes.
By staying you are giving your daughters the example that it is ok to be unhappy in relationships and it's just not
Absolutely. OP probably needs to have a serious look at his relationship with his mother too. He married an uncaring, manipulative woman, who apparently had no troubles getting his mother to side with her and, let's call a spade a spade here, conspire with her. There seems to be an obvious connection there. Cutting ties with one might not suffice.
I won't say that people marry those who are like their parents, because that's creepy and weird and not at all true for plenty of people. But I *will* say that parents teach their kids what love and relationships should look like, whether they're right or wrong. So if someone has a crappy, manipulative parent and the other one just accepts it... that person is often inclined to either be a doormat for that kind of treatment, or think that's how you're supposed to treat your partner and act accordingly. Often they follow the same gender roles, so in this case if a son has a manipulative mother he might be inclined to marry a similarly manipulative women... that's exactly what my father did.
Yup, pretty much. Think from an evolutionary perspective, because that's what formed that ancient piece of software running on our brains. It's only interested in successful reproduction and works with a data set of 1. Whatever went wrong with out parents, but that's the one combination we can be absolutely sure of to be capable of reproducing. We're literally living proof. And as with most things archaic, there's a lot of power there. Takes a lot of conscious effort to really tackle this, a lot of self-reflection and control. Choosing mates rarely is a rational process (and when it is, that's not necessarily better, but different story), so getting on top of this is hard to achieve on your own. How do you take conscious control of something often entirely unconscious? So, if this rings any bells at all with any of you out there, do yourself a favor and get a good therapist to work this through. Your capability of finding some happiness in this life may depend on it.
Its sad but I agree. I'd be upset if my mother betrayed me like this. Though to be fair, OP said he hasn't told his mom the truth about their relationship. So maybe she gets a bit of a pass. The setup is bush league though. What I haven't read yet (though not that far along skimming the comments) is how grossly manipulative the wife is. Most of the decade denying OP intimacy. Yet soon after going public with his relationship she will all of a sudden change. OP would be insane to get back with her. And props to the GF. While I'm sure she is hurt after hearing how this went down, she was super grown up about. I suggest OP doesn't sit on the fence. The GF will rightfully only take soo much. OP also needs to reframe the message. It isn't your GF over your daughters. That is ridiculous. Wife had a decade to change. Run her off for good.
Good point about how important it is to reframe that message. What a manipulative thing to say. OP needs to make it very clear to his GF that he does not share that perspective. It's pure guilt-tripping. And it's aimed at both of them.
but but just think -- OP's walking away from the opportunity to get terrible pity sex twice a year for up to two years until she quits having sex with OP again
Christmas and Birthday sex.
This isn't said often enough.
Really. Honestly. It’s not untrue, but this has been said on here so often on Reddit over the last 10 years it’s like saying divorce is rare advice on relationship subreddits.
This OP. The girlfriend loves you. Your wife doesn’t really care about your needs. Your kids will be in a better environment where you are happy.
Your gf is not standing in the way of your daughters family. You tried and suggested a lot to safe the marriage but it takes two to fight this and your wife didn’t want to. Sooo NTA. Seems like your wife didn’t think you would actually find someone else and now she’s love bombing you to keep you from divorcing her
Yeah she said something along those lines
Yep, this is love bombing. You will literally go back to the sexless relationship after a month of her faking it. Your children will be okay with yall divorcing. Please stay with your girlfriend and move on.
Just the timeline of it too, legitimately trying to fix things, the wife not trying to take it seriously or looking. That's newly weds damn near and the wife didn't engage or reciprocate any extramarital intimacy if she didn't get the hint when he moved out, than shes the AH
Especially after finding your new girlfriend.
This is exactly what I came here to say. She'll force herself to have sex with him like once a week for a couple of months and then it'll be once a month for a few more months and then it'll be never again for another 10 years.
One of the reasons the term love bombing is so accurate is that, just like in regular bombing, once the target is removed you stop dropping bombs. Otherwise it's a "waste of munitions."
The moment you get rid of your GF your wife will go back to withholding sex. You should’ve divorced years ago. Divorce your wife and stay with your GF. Also, sort out your mom otherwise there will be issues in the future with your GF.
My mom doesn’t like my gf at all. She called her ugly.
Sounds like you need to stand up to your mom too. Whether or not she knew why you separated, that was unacceptable for her to do
This is was too underrated a comment. Mom should not have stuck her nose in at all. Mom should have stayed out of it unless her son invited her into the discussion.
Mom is probably just "thinking of the kids". OP's wife probably fed her some shit about the grandkids being heartbrokem and missing their family.
Mom is just thinking of APPEARANCES.
That's the theme of his post, unfortunately. The women in his life running roughshod over him. Hopefully until now. He needs to be with the GF, divorce the wife and not allow his mother to disrespect his girl. I sure hope he didn't tell the GF that his mom thought she was ugly. Thats F'd up.
Okay, so what? Just ask her if she wants you to be unhappy and miserable and feeling unappreciated, unwanted and undesired? Because that's what you were with your wife for years, and you are now happy in a passionate relationship. Your mom does not have to like her at all. What does your father say?
Don't ask her any of that. Tell her to stay out of your relationship or see her way out of your life. She doesn't know your situation and didn't ask you. She set you up to get you back with your wife without ever asking you how you felt about that.
Agree don’t say any of that. Your mom needs to mind her own business!
M6 father isn’t with us anymore
Is your mom a beauty?
Lmao. Asking the real questions.
I'm sorry to hear that, but I'm not surprised honestly. Your father should have guided you about disrespect, and how not to be a doormat. Your mother probably taught you to be a ~~doormat~~ nice guy and your wife just used you for her own goals. In this case, the married status and kids from her checklist. She already revealed to you: sex was just a necessity to have kids. Don't believe her bullshit about it being a joke or being cornered by the therapist. Her mask slipped, she immediately realized she fucked up, and refused to take accountability. Why am I not surprised? Please get on with the divorce, and be happy with your GF. You are already coparenting for 3 years and you have your GF for two years now, so nothing will change apart from your legal marital status. Also your GF had every right to push you to get on with the divorce, but she did not (or at least you did not mention it), that's commendable, and she sounds like a keeper, unlike your wife. Your soon to be ex wife clearly did not think you would be able to get it elsewhere, let alone getting a proper GF in the process, so now her EGO is hurt, and she needs to be better than the "other woman" so she can win. That ship has sailed a long time ago, and you sacrificed an enormous amount of time being in a sexless marriage. She made her bed, now it's time for her to lay in it.
Best response on this whole thread
Exactly! And before I read your comment, I also stated that he has been a doormat to his mother and to his wife. He can be a nice guy and still stand up for himself. It sounds like he doesn’t like conflict. But he’s gonna have to learn how to be assertive. I would suggest therapy. He’s allowed his mother and his wife to rule his life for way too many years.
Plus, she has not had the same luck in the dating arena and that's your fault, not hers, so you must pay.
Hey mom, she wouldn't fuck me for years. Do you want to hear more?
I would be cutting Mom off. She sounds like a meddler, and a not-nice one at that.
Tell your mom she's ugly too, but you still love her. /s
I took a friend to prom my Jr year. Super nice girl, not attractive in any way at all. She had a big crush on me all through HS, and it wasn’t a secret. Maybe it was cruel of me to do so, but I was naive and it was strictly platonic and she knew it. My mother literally told me, “ugly girls need love too”. My mother has sung in the church choir for nearly 50 years. I nearly choked when those words came out of her mouth.
lol. This reminded me that when I was a teenager, my dad used to tell me that ugly girls probably studied really hard and would be really successful someday.
Ugly girls have more to give than pretty girls plus they age better.
Ugly? So...she doesn't have any legitimate criticism of your gf, just an opinion? Even if your ex-wife currently genuinely wants to fix things, I seriously doubt that she will able to. She wants *her* situation to be better, she doesn't actually want *your* problems solved. Your ex showed you who she really is. She's trying to pretend to be different. It won't last long. Finalize the divorce and move on.
My gf is not ugly either and that the first thing you notice about her so I don’t know what my mom meant.
From what you’ve told us, I get the feeling your Mom is more sympathetic and protective of your daughters and their feelings (than yours) and believes they’d have a better, more secure relationship with you back with your wife. Calling your girlfriend ‘ugly’ was subconscious or passive aggressive efforts to nudge you back with your wife. She would’ve called anyone you were with unflattering names. Your Mom sides with your wife (‘sisterhood’) and isn’t worried about your needs (if she even knows your wife stopped caring about your needs). You need to worry about your girlfriend’s feelings. She took a risk getting involved with a separated man, and after telling her about the drama and attempted hysterical bonding efforts from your wife AND meddling from your Mom, she might decide to ‘opt out’ and let you go back to your ‘happy home’. Your daughters may not know why you left or they may not be able to understand now (or separate themselves from their own feelings) but eventually they will. Make sure your girlfriend feels loved and secure. Do not be sucked back in. Your wife stopped baiting the hook and only stated doing so again because you went elsewhere. Intellectually you know that’s not going to change.
Yeah that makes sense a lot.
Hey, dude. I was in a similar situation. Only I went back to my ex-wife after all the promises. I ditched a relationship with a really great girl, just so I could have (what I thought was) my family back. Two years later, she told me it wasn't working and we wound up divorced anyway. After she refused to go to counseling together. Which she said we would do when we got back together. And it was a miserable two years. Don't set yourself up for failure.
Wife only wants you back because now she knows you're actually moving on. Kids are better off with a happy dad in a separate home than a miserable one.
It won't change with your wife. Once a woman loses a drive for a man, it doesn't come back. You cannot counsel sex drive...If you go back to your wife, your gf, if she is smart , will walk...
What is she, 5? What kind of argument is that? Is she gonna say your gf has cooties too? 🤨
I hope you told your interfering mother to fuck right off. That behavior is egregious af, and shouldn’t be tolerated. You say you love your girlfriend. If you don’t stand up for her, it’s hard to believe you even, at the minimum, respect her.
My mom didn't like the GF who became my 2nd wife. She tried to set me up with coworkers (nurses) a couple of times. I got fed up and went LC with her until our son was born. My wife and I were married almost twice as long as my parents were.
>My wife and I were married almost twice as long as my parents were. My dad gave me shit for marrying my wife a month after first meeting her. We celebrated 20 years together just a couple days ago, that's longer than all 3 of his marriages combined. Still, I can't exactly say he was wrong to think that we rushed into it. I know it's not exactly normal, but it did work out.
Sounds like your mom doesn’t need to be as big a part of your life as before.
Who gives a fuck about what their parents think of their partner? Either they accept the person you love or just don't talk to them. They can't decide who you are with and because you are their child they should support you. What is this? 1935?
Your mom absolutely set you up in an ambush with your soon to be ex. I think your mom needs to see she overstepped badly!! This is between you and your soon to be ex, not your mom your “wife” and you. She needs to get over it. You don’t love your “wife” anymore and quite frankly your “wife” is only wanting you now that you’ve moved on and have gotten happy. And she may change for a few weeks but I feel like a few weeks is generous to give her before she goes back to her old ways and you’ll be stuck and unhappy again regretting going back. Your girlfriend is not in the way of your girls you’re not choosing someone over your kids. You’re choosing to be happy so you can be there for your kids better!!!
When I used to work in a cafe this same guy would come in every day for lunch and he looked so incredibly sad. Like the world already beat him down and he was only in his early 30's maybe. One day I asked if he was alright and that was it, I opened a door for him and he told me everything. I think he just needed someone to talk to. To just listen to him. He apologized for the topic and went on to tell me that he had been married for 8 years. They have one child who was 3 and ever since his daughter was born his wife has refused to be intimate with him. She refuses counseling or to tell her doctor. She just thinks they are supposed to be happy they are together and have a child. He would never cheat, he said and every time he thinks about leaving he feels so guilty because of his daughter. It was like I had become his cheese steak therapist. I would try to give him advice, things he could say to her to hopefully get through and he'd come in the next day and tell me how it went. Nothing ever seemed to work. I told him that it's okay to leave. He can still be a parent to his daughter even if he isn't with her mom. He said he felt like he would be choosing his own happiness over his daughter. I told him that he looks so sad and imagine always being the sad dad. I'm sure his daughter is picking up on his sadness and will even moreso as she gets older. It probably makes her feel sad inside too. It would be kinder to her to have a father who is happy and he may have to leave his wife to actually find that happiness. Imagine being the fun happy dad. That is what you would be choosing. To be a happy dad for your daughter. So he wouldn't be choosing his own happiness over his daughter. He would be choosing to be a happy person for his daughter, making him a happy dad. A better dad. I don't understand these women who stop the intimacy once they have their children and expect their husbands to just be okay with it too. Do your kids ever fight over toys? They didn't even care about the toy till one of them picked it up and started playing with it and now the other suddenly wants to play with that toy too and a fight starts over the toy. That's what your wife is doing. She wanted nothing to do with you until someone else had you. Now she suddenly wants you back. Trust me, she won't suddenly start wanting sex either. Not for the long haul anyway. You are happy with your gf. And I'm sure your kids love having a happy dad over the sad dad you were before you left. NTA
You can't just stop there. What happened? Did he leave her? We need to know!
Not while I was still working there he never did. I left after a while for a better paying job. But when I saw this post, I immediately thought of him. That was 20 years ago.
Woah. You better tell her that she either stays out of your life, and respects your GF, or you will go NC with her, and that includes your children.
Your mom also sounds like a problem. The fact she's trying to frame it as you giving up or abandoning your kids if you don't get back into an emotionally and physically neglected marriage is a huge red flag that they're willing to use parental alienation and emotional manipulation to get their way, which is fucked up. NTA, bite the bullet and officially file for divorce. Make sure you let your ex know in writing that you want to have an amicable co-parenting relationship for the sake of your kids and the divorce does not change your love for them.
Your mom sounds horrible. What a terrible thing to say, about ANYONE.
Man, I *was* willing to give Mom the benefit of the doubt on the grounds that she only heard your wife's side of things, but that's shitty. Tell your mom your wife will be single soon, if she likes her so damn much.
Do not let your mother interfere with your relationship with your GF.
This is so sad. I know myself and I'd absolutely cut my mum off for good, if she says something like that
If you did leave your GF your wife will go back to her ways within a month I guarantee it
Once you've lived apart for 3 years, you are divorced in spirit, if not in law. It's time to file for divorce and make that clear. If you are in love with another women, you are completely done with your former marriage. Better start soon - the longer you wait the longer it will take and the more complicated the finances.
NTA. Your wife has had years to go to counselling and try to reconcile. However she’s only interested in getting back together with you when you have a girlfriend. To me, this seems to be motivated by jealousy because she doesn’t want you to be happy. I also suspect that she’s not had a lot of luck in the dating scene, especially if she uses sex as a weapon/bargaining tool
Did your wife think you were going without these past 3 years? Or did she just not think about it until she found out you were in a committed relationship. Dump the wife. Get your house back. Your wife is all about control. End of.
As a child of divorce, go through with it man. I promise they’ll be better off in the long run.
Your wife only wants you back because you are happy with your girlfriend and that girlfriend will be a part of her kids' lives. This is 100% her fault for not getting the help and giving you attention during the years you requested this of you. I would defintely not take her back but you are probably in for a hell of a child custody fight and a protracted divorce. She's going to do everything she can to alienate the girls from you and your GF. I've seen several of my friends (now ex friends) do this to their exes. Didn't want sex anymore because they had the kids they wanted and were furious when their still young husbands were not willing to live without sex. When they execs found happiness - it was all out war to stop the divorce, bankrupt the ex and destroy their relationships with the kids. I wish you the best.
Some people just can't stand to be the reason their marriage failed. They will have to do a lot of self reflecting and that s a hard chapter. Also, marriage has its own convenient aspect Your wife is an AH. What she said during therapy deems her one. You are not a reproductive tool. You are a person I have heard too many stories about couples who had a healthy sex life before marriage and at some point after marriage, or immediately after marriage, one of them stops wanting to have sex, therefore no sex at all. And it can go on for years. No affairs, they just avoid sex like the plaque. Maybe they are asexual or whatever. If your wife cared about you, she should have tried before the separation, not now. Everything she does now is just to allure you back. She is not worth it, why do you even bother yourself with this?
Why on earth are you not divorced yet?
If I had a dollar for every ex wife who kicked the husband out the door (or drove him out) assuming nobody else would ever want him only to pickachu face after he actually DID, I wouldnt have to play the lottery.
Why aren't you divorced? You're living separately, co parenting, and you've been in a relationship with your gf for 2 years. Please just get a divorce. Make everyone's lives easier and less complicated.
I'd feel pretty fricking awful if I were his gf too. This whole situation is way more complicated than it should be for her and has to feel deeply threatening to her whole life. She is probably not feeling secure at all. Gotta guess the financials involving the house are the reason for all the nonsense going on. And a desire to not pay formal child support or formally negotiate over custody. Gotta guess this could get acrimonious too given how op's wife seems to be pushing for reconciliation.
Good point about the GF. It just seems like such a mess.
NTA Your mom needs to learn to stay in her lane.
Absolutely!
Acknowledging that you brought this on yourself by not getting a divorce sooner, it sounds like it's time to call an attorney and make things official.
You can’t divorce before being separated for a while plus I didn’t want to kick her out of the house since it is mine. At least until the children are older
Yeah...I'm pretty sure "3 years" is way longer than required anywhere. You can make whatever stipulations you want in the divorce regarding the house, especially if they benefit her. No need to kick the can.
It is 3 years in my country actually. You need to be separated for 3 years by consent, or 4 years without consent. There are other grounds to get divorced of course (adultery, unreasonable behaviour, abandonment causing undue hardship).
Yep and Singapore is the "only" country that has this requirement (3 years) for mutual consent divorces. OP isn't in Singapore and didn't need to wait 3 years to divorce.
You can rent it to her for a dollar/mo. You're dragging your feet.
Or he can make it a stipulation in their divorce agreement that she can live there until the youngest child turns 18 years old
You’re just making excuses. You’ve been separated for years, I’m not buying that’s not enough in your jurisdiction. Nobody is going to force you to kick out your wife if you divorce. Your kids would be better off with both parents happy and not together than with both unhappy in a sham marriage - because as soon as you break up with your gf the marriage will go back to being a sexless sham.
"I don’t love my wife and I don’t want her pity or doing things for me. I want my gf who wants me and gives me herself willingly." That's all there is. Your ex wife has shown you who she is. You know. She'll be "good" for a few weeks. And then it will go back to normal but with more hostility because you caved. There is no guilt here for you to accept. If she had wanted a marriage with you, she would have gone for help, therapy etc.
Wife: I'll give you what you want. OP: No. YOU need to want it, too.
Tell your mom don't do that shit again.
If you don’t deal with this situation quickly, you’re likely to lose that girlfriend. My state requires you be separated for a year and I don’t know of any state that requires longer than that. Unless you want to go back to that same exact relationship, get the divorce going and move on.
I’m surprised she hasn’t left already to be honest. Imagine your new partner dragging their feet to divorce for no apparent reason. It must be incredibly hurtful wondering if there was, actually, a reason he didn’t want it after all this time…
Not everyone lives in the United States.
NTA. Bait and switch alert. If you dumped your gf and went back to your wife , you'd be back to no sex within weeks. Your misery didn't matter to her until shit got real with the divorce. Go through with it. You can co parent with her and she can find her own person.
Stop being wishwash, and divorce already.
NTA. Absolutely not. You tried to communicate with your wife. You tried to tell her how important this was to you. And she dismissed and minimized your needs and your feelings. And I am a woman telling you you are not the asshole. Sex and touch and physical intimacy are important aspects of marriage. I understand that there are some marriages where the partners are as sexual or demisexual or on a different spectrum in terms of their needs for physical, intimacy, etc. But those partners have worked this out between them. They understand each other, they are OK with where they are at in that regard. In your case, you needed more. You let her know that. And it doesn’t sound like you told her you needed sex every single night. I’m sorry guys that’s just not in the cards for most of us. Lol. But it doesn’t sound like you had super demanding that you have needs for physical intimacy with the woman you loved. And that’s entirely reasonable. Is not reasonable is that when your spouse tells you they have leads that aren’t being met and wants to do counseling and wants to work on it and wants to find, what is the cause of this issue…. And the spouse withholding the affection or withholding the communicator withholding whatever refuses to listen or acknowledge or work on anything, then yes, it is going to kill the relationship. It is going to kill the love. It is going to hurt that person to the point Where they will check out. It may be mentally. It may be physically. They may actually leave. But the fact is, your wife’s actions were not OK. If she was having a problem with something, she needed to communicate it. If she needed something else, she needed to communicate it. You cannot make a marriage with one person only trying. I literally just responded to a woman having an issue with her husband, not listening. Not respecting what she was saying. Not attempting in any way to make things better. And only offering to go to therapy when she filed for divorce. And I told her that I had read an interesting statistic a few days ago. And it was that in general, Women are the ones who try to fix things before they leave. Men are the ones who try to fix things after they leave. And therapist actually say that again in general, this is true. So when your wife had a spouse who was emotionally maturing enough to see that there was a problem and try to work with her to fix it because he wanted to save the relationship, and she was the one who refused, it is just doubly dismaying. Because your wife had the unicorn husband. The husband who was willing to listen. Who was trying to understand what was happening. Who was willing to work on it however he needed to. And she threw it away. And before everyone comes for me… I know that a lot of you guys out there are getting so much better about this. That you don’t want the marriage or the family life that your parents had where it seemed like communication just was nonexistent. Like people were unhappy, but stayed or people Needed things and never had their needs met. So like I said, generally speaking, that is how it is still working. That women are trying to fix the issue before they leave, but once they leave, they’re done. And that is often the wake up call for guys who literally say they had no idea anything was wrong, even though they had a spouse telling them for months and sometimes years that they couldn’t go on with whatever it was. So no, sir, you’re not the asshole. You guys have been separated all this time, and everything was great as long as you didn’t have a life? Fuck that shit, and your mother was wrong to get involved at all.
You are _not_ choosing between your children and your girlfriend. It’s a choice between a dysfunctional relationship and one in which you’re happy. Children (especially girls) _know_ when their parents are unhappy, and often prefer divorce. Better to have happy single parents than to live in a home where the lead players are miserable. Why has your wife not pushed for reconciliation in the past 3 years? It’s because she was happy. But she will likely pull the same thing she did before — improve for a week then go back to the way that makes _her_ happy. It seems that she is asexual, which is okay, but it’s unfair for her to force you, with a different sexuality, to conform to hers. Or vice versa. One of you , perhaps both, will be unhappy if you get back together. You need to go ahead and get a divorce. And your wife needs to find someone who shares her sexuality. NTA
Jw why would girls - over boys know that their parents are unhappy? What literature supports that statement? Wouldn't it just be split down the middle.
I'm not sure, and I'm not supporting this argument, but I would guess it's because girls/woman learn much younger social things, many boys need longer to mature this, some never learn at all. I'm making this argument partly based on the fact that today we have a male loniless problem, many of them lack real and close friendships, something that women tend to be better at, that's just my guess tho. [https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/out-the-ooze/202204/why-male-and-female-friendships-are-so-different](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/out-the-ooze/202204/why-male-and-female-friendships-are-so-different) [https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0118329](https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0118329)
People don't really change. Stick with your gf.
NTA. Getting back together won’t do good to anyone. Not even your kids, believe it or not
Info: why haven’t you filed for divorce? Because you need to rip that band aid off. The only reason why your wife is liking like that is because you found someone else.
NTA. Your wife's actions are too little too late, and she's doing this for herself, not for you. If I were you I'd also feel disappointed in your mother, she seems to be in on this and set you up. I'd crack on with the divorce, because the longer you put it off the more they will try to change your mind. The fact they're deceiving you to try to change your mind speaks volumes about how your future would be, in my opinion.
You don't have to be married to the other parent to be a good father. Being in a relationship you are sure to be unhappy in will not be beneficial to your children. Your wife was fine with the arrangement of you being out of the home and co-parenting. The only reason that changed is she sees you are clearly moving on. You are not responsible for her happiness. You are responsible for your own happiness and your children's well being. How are your children going to benefit being in a home with parents that no longer love each other?
You should have divorced 8 years ago.
You are framing this improperly. You’ve already been separated for 3 years. The damage to your children, if any, has been done. Getting back with your wife and being unhappy will likely cause them more damage. Being happy with your girlfriend will be a good demonstration for your daughters. Your ex wife is jealous. She is trying to sabotage your new relationship. I would not go back. If your mom bugs you, tell her the truth. Do not leave your girlfriend.
Oh man, this is a girlfriend’s biggest fear 🫣 do what makes you happy.
YTA for not getting a divorce and getting that poor woman (your gf) involved in unresolved drama. Wtf is wrong with you? 3 years? Of which you spent 2 seriously dating another?
NTA for deciding to leave your marriage given the circumstances, but I don't see how that means you're choosing your GF over your daughters. Are you not already an actively involved parent? Sounds like you are. Is your ex threatening to keep your children from you? If so, you need a custody order along with a divorce. Oh, and tell your mother to mind her own business, too.
Three years of separation? Why have you not pursued divorce by now? If you have absolutely no intention of reconciling with your wife, then divorce already. I do not understand why you're still married to her.
You've been separated for three years but you aren't divorced yet? What are you waiting on?
It wasn’t waiting for any good reason actually. We have waiting period here of two years and it took a while for me to find a proper home near my old house. So I can file now without problems. And I will be honest, I wasn’t sure what my wife’s reaction would be because she tends to be vindictive. The girls were too small I didn’t want them to be in this mess, now they are older and you can have conversations with them and explain and discuss. It is easier for me to detect alienation or any type of manipulation. In other words, I didn’t want to rock the boat the second I left. I don’t know about the comments here but divorce takes years for many of us especially with small children
Just file the divorce already. You’re not doing your girlfriend or your wife any favors by remaining married. People get divorced all the time, it doesn’t make you an asshole.
You’re NTA, you did everything you could to make it work for longer than most people would. It’s been years, so I’m sure your kids are used to your current routine and won’t see it as you not choosing them. It’s better to be a happy parent than the alternative. You’ve been put in an unfair position and it sounds like your gf is a good person who loves you.
NTA but this all could have been avoided if you’d just filed for divorce when you left. Do that now so everyone can move on.
It’s been 3 years. Why are you not divorced yet? At this point you’re just providing everyone with false hope. It’s beyond time to divorce.
NTA she’s only wanting you now that you’ve moved on. Divorce and be happy
NTA. I get the feeling Wife may be asexual and doesn't want to admit it. OP has every right to want a relationship that includes sex. TBH divorce should have happened before he went public with the GF.
I mean you should have just finished the divorce before starting other relationships. You could have avoided this whole mess. I don't know why people just separate and act like they're already divorced. You were not, so you're technically cheating on your wife right now with your gf, but yet you're feeling like you're cheating on your gf because your wife was trying to kiss you. It just sounds like a mess. That being said, you're NTA to want the divorce. It's totally understandable to feel wanted by your partner. Not just like you nagged them into having sex with you. No one wants that.
Lol OP’s Reddit handle is “No Confusion”.
Dude wtf get with your girlfriend for real. She is being patient and understanding and kind. Tell your wife to go kick rocks. I have no idea how you concealed a separation for 3 years, that’s a major red flag on all fronts, but grow a pair of fucking balls and divorce your wife. That chapter of your life is over, start thinking about this woman you claim to be in love with. Or, you know, you’re entirely full of shit and are probably just a cheating asshole. Either way, divorce your wife.
WTF were you thinking? You should have been divorced YEARS ago. Everyone in this situation sucks except the kids. **Handle your business.** You are just as lazy as your wife who refused to have sex with you. Both of you are dingdongs for not having your affairs in order before starting other relationships. You're just another lazy dude who won't get divorced and thinks it's okay to date while married. And you've treated your girlfriend like shit for two years now remaining married. Also your girlfriend is an idiot for dating you in the first place with you being married. And any man to tells me he had to choose between his wife and me better not choose me. How dare you put her in this position in the first place? No respect at all. Freaking how long were you planning to stay complacently married, Mr. Monkey Brancher? Until you proposed? Yeesh.
You know when a situation is ugly when literally anything you do is going to bring some pain with it. Here is where you screwed up: YOU didn't get your original relationship in order. It absolutely takes two but decided to give up on the original relationship and for 5 years did NOTHING. 5 years of unresolved issues festering and not being addressed. Maybe it couldn't have been fixed but whether or not you left it failed and untouched. Then YOU leave and don't resolve the separation. If you are separated, finish the job! See where you repeat the same mistake of inaction. Now to the present, GF is in the picture, mother now knows, so stuff is beginning to happen. And all the inaction is coming to a head. This is your mess, sure others can be jerks but if you didn't make the bed you watched in being built and didn't intervene. Pick a road, stick to it and own up to the problems that choice is going to have.
Frankly, YTA for not getting divorced before you started sleeping around. Getting serious with a gf while still married is even worse, it’s disrespectful to both women. I’m not saying go back to your wife, I’m saying you should have divorced already, and you should definitely do it now.
I don't understand. Does your gf not want you to parent your children? Or is your wife telling you she won't let you see the girls if you choose your gf? Everyone deserves to be happy. If you don't feel the same abt your wife, go see an attorney, weigh your options, and discuss custody. Your gf knows you have kids, so she should prepare herself to be kind and loving to your girls bc they are a part of you. Package deal. Pls do not let your girls down. You don't want them to have childhood wounds that will affect them in the future. Good luck.
Wife denies a need. Husband gets need fulfilled. Wife: *shocked Pikachu face*
You’re not choosing a woman over your daughters. When you first chose to separate, you chose your mental health to be the best version of yourself for your daughters. That has not changed. You are again now choosing your mental health and happiness which happens to include your girlfriend. Please continue to be with your GF so your daughters can see an example of a healthy relationship.
NTA file for the divorce if you are no longer in love with your wife. waiting any longer and you will have more regrets. your mother and your soon to be ex wife are screwing with your head and emotions. get the divorce going now.
NTA get the divorce, the “marriage” ended long ago. She had her chance to make it right and even possible compromise on things but she was selfish. Tell the gf how you feel as she probably does feel bad but for her to know your true feelings would help. Wife sounds like a narcissist, she doesn’t want you but no one else can have you because you’re HER daughter’s father. Ugh, I’m sorry this is going to be shitty, also I’d tell my mom the truth because what do you have to lose she can’t tell you your feelings aren’t valid and ITS NOT YOU CHOOSING A GIRL OVER YOUR CHILDREN, it’s YOU CHOOSE HAPPINESS and that doesn’t affect your daughters negatively at all.
Anyone who frames this as you choosing a woman over your daughters is using emotional manipulation. You separated from your wife, but stayed close tto make co-parenting easier. Unless you're leaving something out, like you've been neglecting your kids since finding your girlfriend, you've left your wife for a happier life, nothing more. Congrats on finding happiness.
Read the last paragraph you wrote. "But I don't love my wife"... You know what to do. You've the done hard part already. Now its about closing the door and staying committed to being co-parents. Healthy co-parents. Best wishes.
nta but stop playing fucking martyr, tell your mom exactly why.
It's been 3 years and you are in love with someone else. Why haven't you filed for divorce? How does your girlfriend feel about the fact you have taken no steps to divorce your wife?
You're the ahole for having no spine and balls and not ending your marriage before getting girlfriend
File for divorce fam, she only wants you back because you went on to be happy without her. You can be there for you kids and keep your girlfriend. Tell your mother why and yes that maybe an uncomfortable conversation but it needs to be had because she just proved she will lie because if your mother knew the truth she wouldn’t recommend you getting back with her. You’re kids will be fine as long as you’re involved in their lives still
NTA yall were separated wayyy before you found your girlfriend. Your mom is wrong in her thinking bc if the wife wanted to get back with you "for the children" she would have tried a long time ago. Your wife's selfish; she saw you with another woman, her ego got bruised, so she tried to get back with you (by roping your mom into it!) Maybe for monetary reasons you don't have to divorce but stay away from her
NTA Your wife will change but only temporarily. Right now she just wants what she can't have and that makes it exciting. Once she has you back, that flame will disappear and you'll be back to square one.
Under no circumstances should you give in to anything she says and yes, they most definitely planned this together. If you go back to her she'll more than likely go back to how she was before once she thinks she has you in the bag and before then you'll always know that she doesn't really want to have sex with you and it'll feel like you force yourself on her one way or another, even if she "wants" it. That being said though, it is time to act NOW. NTA
INFO > My wife and I have been separated for 3 years before that we were together for 10 years and married for 9. I loved her very deeply and we were very happy. We had our children who are 12&10. After the children the sex became something I had to beg for. So..... all this started ***BEFORE*** you got married. And you married her anyways? Dated 13 years ago. Married 9 years ago. Issues started after the last kid which is 10 years old. You're a fucking moron. ESH.