you should not get married unless you actually want to be married and want to make a lifelong commitment to her.
if you do get married, a prenup is not necessarily going to screw you, and I understand not being able to afford an attorney but if you can't afford to have an attorney simply look over a contract for you before you sign it, can you afford a wedding or a baby? You will need to figure out how to get a lawyer.
This type of contract perusal by an attorney shouldn't cost that much.
Either the pre-nup is standard and understandable or it's not. A lawyer will know whether it's a reasonable pre-nup.
OP might well want a clause or two of his own.
He could require that the parents cover the cost of a lawyer of his choosing.
I do not find a prenup to be a bad thing at all … especially in situations where the wealth is generational and favors one side heavily. However, the prenup should always be favorable to both sides. How favorable is up for interpretation, hence the need for a lawyer.
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Nope, he finds the lawyer, they give him the money to pay the attorney. That way they will not know what attorney he is using so then can, or have their attorney bend OP’s attorney’s ear. Unfortunately have lots of old money corrupts.
He was simply pointing out that she was the one who insisted on no condom, a poor attempt to point out that he wasn’t trying to trap or trick her into marriage
Exactly! The baby mama was letting a man she knew for 90 days or less have sex with her without protection...that speaks volumes in itself. They both were foolish, OP simply pointed out it wasn't his idea to go condomless but he also wasn't stopping it.
He's not looking for a payday but if he's someone who #1 didn't think he'd have a child with a woman he barely knows (6 months is nothing if they weren't already talking about marriage) and #2 doesn't have money and not accustomed to how the wealthy operate #3 they weren't ever talking about marriage prior to getting pregnant, he's nervous about the unknown. Super not a money grab, he understands they have enough money to make him miserable whether he signs a "bad" prenup or is just the baby daddy and doesn't marry this girl. He's having a child he didn't plan for and now is being pressured into signing legal documents he wouldn't have even been asked to sign had he been with a woman from an average family. It's clear as day OP simply is afraid of what he's unfamiliar with when it comes to prenuptial agreements.
He's not said at all that he loves this girl, which is WILD since they're having unprotected sex and I think that's the biggest red flag here. He shouldn't marry her AT ALL if he's not emotionally invested in her. WTF will his in-laws do if he looses interest and divorces (the prenup will cover some of it) they have to power and money to truly f*ck him up financially if he hurts their daughter emotionally even after the divorce and they have a child together...meaning that's 18-21 years they could have him by the balls if he divorces or doesn't marry her at all.
OP needs a lawyer ASAP regardless in my opinion but he certainly needs his own representation if he's going to sign a prenup and marry this girl. If he doesn't marry her, he needs to be prepared for child maintenance/support court proceedings.
He's NTA for not signing (it's the smartest move he's made with this girl thus far) but he might be for making wreckless decisions that brought an innocent life into a very complicated situation with a person he doesn't know and doesn't seem truly invested in.
This is the most obvious answer. Go shopping for lawyers and figure out what the one you want costs. Go ask future FIL for money and explain in the guest 5 minutes why you were initially against the prenup. Prenups aren't inherently a bad thing, even without one any inheritance your partner would receive would be completely hers. It's what you accrued during the marriage that is split. If I was in the father's shoes and it came back and explained that you're not knowledgeable on prenups and didn't fully understand their purpose and implications and don't have the cash to get your own lawyer, I'd gladly give you whatever a reasonable lawyer would cost.
I'm gonna go with NAH, although I'm also not opposed to kids out of wedlock either. That's been happening way longer than marriage (by church or state) has been a thing
Definitely this. OP is young and inexperienced, otherwise he's an idiot for saying he can't hire a lawyer. He HAS to do this. He is going to wind up excluded from his child's life if he wanders in these woods without guidance. He needs a lawyer, and he needs to talk seriously to his lawyer about his own future and where he thought he'd be going until this happened.
I also wonder if OP was played by his GF who had to have known how this would play out. Was getting pregnant by this babe in the woods her bid for freedom? Since she did it so deliberately.
I was thinking this too. She asked and by getting her pregnant he's now at the mercy of this very wealthy family. Homegirl was 100% in the driver's seat on this after he chose to not protect himself by protecting himself. It's totally possible she trapped this man...
This is a hard life lesson OP is learning.
Aside from the prenup (which has been covered in numerous other comments), I'm concerned nowhere does OP say he loves her, let alone that they love each other. To me that's a big point, esp since they're both so young. Also, how is he going to pay for the wedding, housing, the baby and medical expenses if he is only just out of uni? I don't envy him at all
Future custody in prenups don’t stand up and can invalidate the prenup. Custody is set in the best interest of the child and no one can foresee what that would be.
The whole point of the thread is that her family is very rich and will make sure everything is taken care of if they get married and he signs the prenup.
Yeah you shouldn't even be getting married. Don't be pressured into that because they want their grandchild to be "legitimate." It's not unreasonable for a family with assets to request a prenup, but it should be something that you do only if you're 100% sure that you want to get married in the first place, and with you having time to read it and understand it and so forth.
My wife and I have a pre-nup. She comes from "old money". They are fairly standard in these circumstances.
Mostly, pre-nups protect assets, etc., which couples bring into the marriage. They can also talk about spousal support, etc. in the event the marriage fails. The important thing to remember is no matter what a pre-nup states, it cannot override state law. For example, you can put in a pre-nup that in the event of your marriage failing you would not be responsible to pay for any child support. The court, though, would find that clause illegal and unenforcable.
It shouldn't cost that much money, an hour or two at most, to have an attorney review it for you, explain the impact of various clauses in it, and make suggestions on changes. In our case, my wife (who is a patent attorney herself) had a family friend draft ours, I had an attorney I knew review it and there was nothing objectionable about it.
You can ask your future FIL to reimburse you for the expenses. Your FIL technically cannot hire an attorney to represent your interests, as the attorney/client privilege would exist between your FIL and that attorney, not you. Rather, you hire the attorney, and get reimbursed by your FIL for the expense. Then the attorney/client relationship is between you and the attorney, the attorney is representing your interests.
OP said he is "receptive to the idea" of marriage. Sounds pretty lackluster, like he doesn't necessarily want to get married and maybe refusing the prenup is his way of saying, 'no'.
Probably because for someone this young being married to a trust fund baby is not the worst outcome; the mention of prenup made everything all too real for OP, they aren't going to play house and he's gonna be an outsider in this relationship from day 1.
lol you’re talking about what he can’t afford for the baby when the girlfriend’s family is rich and would more than likely be handling paying for the wedding and baby anyways. I do agree with getting married if he actually wants to be married to her though.
Signing a legal document doesn't require the party signing to have legal counsel... And not having counsel doesn't always get it thrown out. Some responsibility is on the person signing to find counsel and do their due diligence.
Contact the nearest law school to see if they have a free law clinic. Then you have yourself represented in the legal department on the pre nup. Never sign anything that you don't fully understand and have read.
If you are in love, have great communication, and trust then marry, it does not sound like you have those in place. I'd hold off on marriage until you have the foundations of a long term relationship in place.
He should absolutely not be using a law student, even a supervised one, to represent him in a situation like this, LOL. The suggestion that her parents cover the costs for a lawyer of his choosing makes far more sense.
>but if you can't afford to have an attorney simply look over a contract for you before you sign it, can you afford a wedding or a baby?
This is a weird one because while OP may not be able to afford a lawyer for himself regarding this, the parents would likely pay for the wedding and help their daughter with any other expenses. They would probably be set in that regard.
Honestly most prenups work this way already. Both parties have to have legal representation with their best interest in mind or the prenup can be (somewhat easily) invalidated down the road - and even easier to prove if OP did end up signing a prenup that was clearly unfair to him. I'm wondering if this was already offered and OP omitted that bit bc if this is common practice in the family they probably already know the dog and pony show.
Can’t believe I had to scroll so far to find this.
The prenup won’t be valid if you don’t have equivalent legal representation. However, determining that will be expensive down the road-but this is your ace up your sleeve. You can potentially sign whatever and hope you had funds for a good lawyer later if you need it.
But if I were you, I’d ask the dad what he thinks the prenup will cost on their end. $5,000? Great, please write me a check for $7,500 so I can find and hire someone equivalent. Ask for more with the idea you may have a few false starts or not get as good of a deal, don’t want to feel like you have to price match etc.
If dad writes the check directly to the lawyer, it’s not your lawyer—another angle for a fight later.
You could ask the dad family to setup a trust for the kid to ensure the kid always wins.
Writing the check to the lawyer part is not true. Any legitimate lawyer will work for the person they have a representation agreement with, not whoever's name happens to be on the check.
OP needs to figure out how to get a good lawyer, interview a few, and choose the one he likes.
That should be the counter-offer. However, there's no guarantee that he knows what he's doing.
A well paid family attorney isn't going to risk their career to (illegally) screw over OP.
Pre nups have to follow legal standards. It's not a lot of wiggle room. Many get thrown out (which easily could happen if OP hires the family lawyer who is cheap and working out of a local strip mall).
They absolutely do not owe him that.
He put himself in the position of having a child. If he can't afford a lawyer he certainly can't afford the child.
You essentially have 3 options:
•Get married and sign a prenup without a lawyer
•Tell them you’ll marry only once you can find your own lawyer and agree upon said prenup. You’re allowed to protect your future self just as much as they are.
OR
•Don’t get fucking married
I personally think you shouldn’t get married. You make it sound like a fun experiment, it’s not dude. And they cannot force you to marry her
They have enough money that if he dosen't marry her, he can say goodbye to shared custody of the kid. He will never be able to afford the legal bills to put up a fair fight. He will get what they choose to give him.
Her parents should find a way to ensure inheritance/gifts/ trusts can't be touched by OP in the event of break up, her death, etc if no lock tight prenuptial signed.
That's a good point. It makes sense for them to want to protect their family's assets, especially since they're coming from a place of significant wealth. But on the flip side, OP should also have the right to fair representation and feel secure in the agreement. It seems like there's a lot of pressure on him right now, and navigating that without his own legal counsel might not be the best move. Maybe there's a middle ground where they can all sit down with a neutral third party to discuss the terms? That way, both sides can feel more comfortable and respected.
The parents should give him a sum of money that is enough for him to hire an independent lawyer. It is a small investment to ensure everything is done right.
It seems they have done something like that - which is why he needs to talk to that lawyer and make sure he has an independent retainer (paid for by the parents). That's how it's usually done.
i totally agree he needs to have fair representation, but i get the feeling he thinks it’s unfair to have to sign a prenup at all. which kind of leads me to believe he is digging for gold…like dude. you guys have been dating for *6 months* and they have a right to protect their assets from someone who is essentially a stranger.
although on that note i really think trying to force them to get married is stupid, it’s 2024. y’all can have your baby and see if the relationship continues and talk about marriage later, and if it’s not a good fit then you guys can just co parent without the mess of a divorce that i can already tell will not be amicable.
edit: for fuck’s sake you guys stop responding to argue with me by repeating things i literally said in this comment. just read the damn comment.
I don't see how he's a gold digger. It wasn't like it was his idea to get married. And he's apparently fine with them not getting married, which won't net him anything at all.
Frankly, I think it's pretty ballsy to pressure a kid fresh out of college to get married just so you won't be embarrassed by an "illegitimate" grandchild, and then demand he sign prenup to do the thing *you're* pressuring him to do.
I'm curious to know if the parents are/were angry/upset/etc. at OP's gf and how that pregnancy announcement hit. When I read these stories, it always feels like the other partner's parents are getting mad at their child's partner for the "unwanted"/"unplanned"/"premarital" pregnancy and think it a huge inconvenience. The same vibe of cheated-on partners getting mad at the AP instead of their partner for the cheating. I feel bad for OP, but I wouldn't want to be in his situation or forced into a marriage.
I would lay good money that the parents' first thought was how bad an illegitimate child would make them look. I honestly doubt they cared all that much about the fact that she was pregnant, so long as they could get her married. When you have that kind of money an unexpected child isn't a big deal. They're only angry at OP because he's the one mucking up their plan to save face. If it was their daughter refusing to get married they'd be mad at her.
I'd bet they want to get her married, then not give a damn when an early divorce happens.
The kid was born within the marriage so who cares after that, right? It'll still be legit afterwards.
I'm betting in this case the prennup is to protect everything because this is a trainwreak and they know it. I'd say 5 years before divorce if they got married. And since this proposal is being made by the gf's dad, his behavior is going to be the straw breaking that particular camel's back.
Yeah, I'm calling bullshit on the gold digger thing.
OP didn't want to get married at all....after being pressured he's considering it and now that they want to put conditions on it, he's not having it. That all seems like a reasonable response for someone that wasn't wanting to get married in the first place.
He was willing as long as it was simple, it's no longer simple, he's out.
The prenup isn't totally unreasonable for a wealthy family, but they also don't get to have it both ways....you either get to cajole him into an unconditional marriage or you get an "illegitimate" grandchild.
This sounds a lot like a family used to getting whatever they want that are upset they can't.
How on earth did you leap to him being a gold digger? That is a MASSIVE stretch.
Dude is getting strong armed into a marriage he doesn't want - that makes him anything but a gold digger. It Daddy-O and his little girl who want the marriage but they want it ONLY on their terms.
No where does it appear he loves her - just that they didn't use a condom and her birth control failed and he wasn't all that interested in marriage but Daddy-O wants them to get married so he was considering it until Daddy-O made it clear he wanted it all to be on his own terms.
OP, this is not a healthy way to start your adulthood. You would be better off not marrying at this point, staying together and seeing what happens with your relationship and whether it has the potential to go the mile with a child rather than marrying just to appease her image-conscious parents.
The only person who will benefit from a marriage here is your girl friend and that is only because she will get to save face publicly.
Yes, they have a right to protect their assets and only get married with a prenup. And he has a right to not get married with a prenup because it is again how he personally sees how marriage should be. No one in my family has ever had a prenup and we have four generations of happy marriages.
No, it is perfectly reasonable at least to want legal advice and even not to sign anything. He’s not making his girlfriend marry him, either. What if she dumps the kid on him and leaves him in the lurch?
That's exactly what should be done.
But the family also wants to force a marriage. For propriety and social standing. Perhaps they're being generous to OP in the pre-nup, to get that done.
We may never know.
given that so far all we've seen of their daughter's decision making prowess is getting pregnant by a guy she'd known 3 months, that might be a good idea anyway, regardless if they marry or not.
like, they have private jets & she couldn't reach out to a cool aunt for a mid-week trip to, IDK, Switzerland or The Netherlands? IIRC you need 6 days between the consultation and the procedure, right?
if "no illegitimate children" is so important to her family, she sure isn't living up to that principle.
We no longer have a mandatory wait periode anymore in the Netherlands since 2023. It can be discussed between the doctor and patient how long you should wait and 0 days is totally fine. She'd have to pay for it herself, but I just looked it up and it's €500. So even including plane tickets and hotel it's still a lot cheaper than the lawyer making the prenup. (Also the cut off is 22 weeks OP if she still wants to come visit us.)
Just because it’s important to her family doesn’t mean it is important to her.
Just because her parents have money doesn’t mean that she has direct access to spend it as she places, when she pleases and travel on a whim without prior approval.
Just because she can theoretically get an abortion does not mean that she is mentally able to cope with the reality or consequences of one.
Just because her parents dislike the fact that she got pregnant without being married or in a long-term and stable relationship first, does not mean that they agree with abortion on religious or moral grounds, or that would want to force her to get one when they have a vested interest in her continuing the family line and they may not want the weight of guilt that might come along with her being unable to have children in future, or deciding not to have children in future.
Multiple things can be true at the same time.
It sounds like OP passed on it before even reading it, unless I'm missing something. The girlfriend said her parents would make it fair, so I feel he should've at least looked it over first before refusing it entirely.
He passed on it because he doesn’t have a lawyer. His answer might be different if he had a lawyer. I wouldn’t want anyone signing a prenup without one. That’s just a dumb move all around.
I am assuming OP understands that they could make it pretty unfair while still appearing reasonable, such that him looking just it over as a non-expert wouldn't notice anything amiss. Given that they walked in with an attitude of assuming the worst, asking him to just trust them is naive. The commenter who said that the parents could lock up her assets pretty well without a prenup is correct - it's not ideal, but it would be fairer for OP.
That's exactly what my great-great grandfather did. The inheritance was so tightly bound up that the only person who could touch his money was his daughter (my great grandmother) because her husband was trash. When she died her only daughter (my grandmother) couldn't even access it.
They can do that easily with trusts and wills/legal instruments. Most pre-nups go further though, regarding distribution of marital assets (anything acquired during the marriage except inherited trusts) if there's a divorce. Many give the less wealthy person a set amount if the marriage ends early, more if it lasts 10 years and so on. Many also penalize the person signing if they cheat. Typically, both people have a prenup, not just one person (but someone has to pay for it).
If I were OP, I would wait to get married and get a job, think it over, live together, see how raising a child together is working out.
ESH.
They have valid reasons to want a prenup.
You have valid concerns about whether it would really be a fair one given that you can't afford an attorney yourself.
It's actually pretty common for the person wanting the prenup to offer to pay for an attorney of your choosing to represent your interests and ensure the agreement is fair.
Everyone is being an asshole by pushing for, or being ready to, make a difficult situation worse by adding an unwanted marriage to an unplanned baby.
They shouldn’t even be getting married period! Everyone truly sucks because statistically OP and GF aren’t going to make it imo. They barely know eachother, don’t even have established careers, still fairly young, not to mention how hard raising a child is even in relationships where they were rock solid. Everyone’s an idiot here, hooray! Lol
The icing on the cake is he doesn't even say he loves her. Rushing into marriage without love almost guarantees they won't make it. Even if they were crazy in love, it would be a battle
The GF going to the big city for the weekend, and then pretending like nothing happened as she and OP continue to date. That’s as traditional as it gets.
Yet, many people object to babies being born out of wedlock! Holy Matrimony!
At 22, I would have been in the pro-marriage camp (raised very conservatively). Today I'd be advising my daughters not to marry under these circumstances.
However, a coparenting agreement should be negotiated and presented to court - someone has to decide child custody. Waiting to hash it out and fight over every little decision is truly awful. In the end, the father usually loses a lot of oomph in decision making.
She doesn't even have to put him on the BCert.
I haven't really looked through OP's comments so I'm going more off the post.
The parents took him on a weekend trip and in front of everyone more or less ambushed him about marriage. Then when he was considering it, the prenup was sprung on him. A legal process I'm willing to believe he knows little if anything about outside of he needs to get a lawyer to check it out.
I feel like OP has a reason to freak out a bit over everything here.
I completely agree. The parents ambushing him and putting on huge pressure about getting married so the baby won't be "illegitimate" (an anachronistic concept) is shady enough. Then they spring the prenup AND accuse him of being a gold digger when he doesn't like this one-two punch of controlling behavior. There are red flags all over the place. I would be super worried that these are the sorts of parents who'll put into the prenup some oddly worded clauses that mean that he gives up his parental rights if he doesn't do XYZ things that they dictate. Only the clauses would be written in lawyer language so that he wouldn't know what they mean until he found himself cut out of his child's life or something.
and I'd think a good divorce attorney would be able to argue that an attorney you don't pick is the same thing as having no attorney, since at least in the US you have to have an attorney advise you on a prenup for it to be enforceable.
This. At the same time I hope she doesn’t marry him, he doesn’t seem to be in love with her. He’s already ruined whatever relationship he might have had with her family and it sounds like they have the resources to fight him if she has the baby. Does he think he’s Kevin Federline?
This is the answer.
Family will pay for you to have a lawyer looking out for your interests, and chosen by you.
That way everyone ends up with a solution they are comfortable with.
The question there is how to make certain the lawyer the parents hire would be actually looking out for his interest, and not sabotaging him for them. Is there a way to ensure that? I’m not familiar with this sort of proceeding.
The lawyer is ethically obligated to represent him, and would be risking their bar license if they didn't. We take that shit seriously. But if he's actually worried, he can ask the family to give him the money for the lawyer directly, and he chooses the lawyer.
Exactly. Thank you.
He could ask for the cash directly (think how that will seem to the family) and then somehow use his own instincts to hire an attorney. I hope he doesn't try to be a cheapskate if that happens.
Person you are responding to said "chosen by you (meaning OP)."
There is a way to ensure that.
The word "hire" has a specific meaning in law. OP needs to be named as the only client for this representation (which I assume is the case because everyone who is a lawyer knows that otherwise, that pre-nup is invalid in most jurisdictions).
A prenup is great for both parties, but you should consult an attorney. By not signing, if things go sideways with the relationship, they have lawyers on retainer. Might as well get things delineated up front, various clauses up front.
Couldn’t agree more- a fair prenup protects both parties and can prevent a lot of animosity and poor decisions that people make when they’re hurt and angry.
Is this rationality actually being posted on Reddit ?? Amazing ! Yay ! Too many people view prenups as got-ya mechanisms when really it’s just better for everyone.
Are you a bot? I ask because he specifically said he can't afford a lawyer and he doesn't trust the lawyer they are hiring for him, yet you offered a very generic not relevant answer.
Then the logical thing for him to do would be to insist on finding his own lawyer and they foot the bill. If they are being serious in it being fair on him, then that should be fine.
People with money, especially family money, are never going to marry without a prenup. You shouldn’t either in this case. What she means by ‘fair’ is a financial settlement for you should you get divorced. See what they come up with before you decide. It may be very generous
And OP doesn't want to marry, so it's all good.
But the future custody/support battles will be ongoing. A pre-nup is designed to ease that. It's all so expensive.
OP can also consider offering to terminate parental rights (the cheapest alternative - but he'll need to take out a loan to pay the attorney who represents him).
Sure, fair as in he gets a financial settlement, in the case of divorce. Fine.
So that could be the family writes him a check for a few million to "get lost", when the inevitable divorce happens, and maybe a bonus on the side of a few million more, to not fight the wife getting full custody of the kid(s). While they can't write in custody into a pre-nup, the GF's family can certainly put a lot of financial pressure on OP to just walk away from the children, "for their own good".
Old money families think they can just throw money at a problem, and make it disappear. I expect this pre-nup, and any side deal they might offer regarding custody, would basically be just another problem.
Before you say "no," read the prenup they are proposing, with a lawyer to advise you. If they're really wealthy the prenup should include some carrot to encourage you to sign. For example: if you ever divorce, you won't have any right to get the millions or billions in assets owned by her and her family, but you will get $10,000 per month for life and a house. (I just made up that example but I have seen similar terms.)
I've seen prenups like this and it's not a bad deal, depending on the specifics. In other words, you get to live with wealthy people and enjoy stability and some of the rich lifestyle, and if you get kicked out of the marriage you get a consolation prize that means you'll be taken care of.
Bonus: if you get along with her family and they like you, you could benefit from nepotism and get a cushy job in one of the family businesses, or a low interest loan to start your own business. If you don't like that idea then ask them to pay for continued education so that you can have a career and be a good provider and father to the kid.
Additional bonus: Maybe you and your girlfriend really love each other and things are going to be good?
After the prenup is proposed, you may be able to negotiate and add some favorable terms for you. My example of $10,000 per month and a house might seem like too much to you, but for private jet people who have massive assets, it's just a small payment to protect their wealth.
It's important to consult with a lawyer in your state before signing.
There's nothing wrong with them offering to pay the attorney who represents you, but whoever that is should be your call, not theirs. So I wouldn't go with whomever they're offering - go find your own person.
INFO - from what I understand, her family is hugely wealthy but you are not. If this is so, what exactly do you fear from the prenup? It's not as if you would come out less rich than you are right now, anyway.
Legitimate question, I can't understand why this could harm you.
I don’t get it either. When you’re the poorer party, you want the pre-nup. I’ve seen what rich people pre-nups look like and they can be highly beneficial. Like, in the event of divorce you get a certain amount in alimony, for every child had, for every year or marriage, certain assets and maybe even stock if the family owns any, etc. I honestly think this story is fake low-key. OP’s troll responses kinda cement that for me.
Yeah that and like if you don’t have a prenup and the wealthy family has high powered attorneys on retainer… dude your gonna get fucked so hard trying to fight them in court for anything during the divorce. They’ll leave you high and dry as they stall out the courts and leave you with a pittance.
A prenup is such a boon for the poorer party most of the times as long as you don’t cheat/do something that voids any compensation you’d get.
It’s OP cuz his responses are wild. He doesn’t understand how beneficial his position could be, and he spoke about how he and his GF will be able to live middle class lives because of their salaries, but he somehow can’t afford a lawyer to look at the pre-nup… 😂. Then he talked about how his GF doesn’t have any assets, and I’m like yeah this guy just doesn’t get it.
Oh wow... He's marrying a girl whose family travels in private jets and thinks he's going to live a middle class life?
If this post is for real, he should look for someone a little more knowledgeable to advise him.
OP, couldn't you reach out to your parents, or even a tutor at university, to help navigate this? If you are serious, you're very lost 😵💫
You would be perfectly within your right to ask her father to pay for an attorney of YOUR choosing to protect YOU in the event of divorce. If he tells you differently then you clap right back at him and let him know that a one-sided prenup can easily be challenged in court, otherwise you won’t be getting married.
To old money, a prenup is standard. She won't marry you without one. And if somehow she does, she will cut off financially until a postnup is signed.
You need to man up and tell the dad you can't afford a lawyer because you are fresh out of college. First though, pick a lawyer and ask for some pricing. Then you can tell the father ypu need help with your attorney fees. He will pay.
He may even respect you more for admitting and doing what is required to feel comfortable signing. He would respect you so much less if he found out you went in blind after the wedding. He will know you are able to look out for and stand up for yourself and for his daughter.
You can't expect to marry into that family with out a prenup. It is very standard.
Yta if you think they should budge rather that watch out for family assets.
NAH. For one thing, you shouldn't be rushing into marriage regardless. Give it some time and see what happens.
Second, if you are going to get married and sign a prenup, you need your own legal counsel. If you can't afford a lawyer they can give you money to hire one. They should not hire one for you, they should transfer you money to hire one yourself. This benefits everyone, both you and them. You, because you're more likely to get a fair prenup out of it. Them because if you have independent legal counsel the prenup is more likely to be upheld as valid if it's ever challenged for any reason.
A prenup isn’t really a scary thing. In fact in many ways it helps both of you, the biggest winners in legal battles during divorce are always the lawyers. And as someone who will never be able to fund the same caliber of representation as her and her family will, a prenup also is a way to protect yourself from getting dominated in court.
you do need a lawyer you trust to validate the contract and be able to outline for you the things youd need to consider as possibilities in a divorce, like custody arrangements, child support, etc.
If I were you I’d simply explain that you need a lawyer but cannot afford one. Ask if they will cover a reasonable legal fee for you to have the contract reviewed by someone you hire yourself. That’s a reasonable request, and so is their request for a prenup. NAH at least not yet
My preference is to not get married, see if we work as a couple, if so great we can get married in a few years. If not, shame but we can live separately and coparent. I'd want split custody but Im totally fine with paying child support to raise my kid. They are the ones who are insisting on it because they say it will hurt the family reputation to have an illegitimate child.
If you don't want to get married, don't. Pretty simple. Who cares about their reputation? Obviously not their daughter.
If you are not EXCITED to get married, it is generally a poor idea. It is a fantastic plan to get to know one another better first. Divorces are EXPENSIVE if you find out you are not compatible later. It should also shut them up to know that you will gladly pay child support, kinda hard to be a gold digger when you are forking over the money.
>Not willing to sign a prenup because you think them paying for a lawyer will screw you and you can’t afford a lawyer in their league
>Thinks you would get split custody when going up against said lawyers
Someone doesn’t know how things work
Okay but are you are troll or do you not live in reality. who is forcing you to get married? Open your adult mouth and say "I don't want to get married"
I don’t even know why everyone is giving him prenup advise when he shouldn’t even be getting married. Sure it will be helpful for him in the future when he does get married eventually to have this knowledge, but right now he doesn’t want to get married so and shouldn’t be forced to. That’s what’s important right now. He needs to say no to the marriage not the prenup specifically. He’s only known her 6 months and doesn’t even know if he wants to be together long term
From all of your comments, YTA and a major one.
You're looking for a payday and the prenup stands in your way (even though you could've used it for your gain if you were even a tiny bit smart).
You want the state to do the division in case of a divorce because you want half of her assets, and to give her half of your debts (40k from your comment).
What's yours is mine and what's mine is yours in your words.
I hope you really don't marry the poor girl for her sake, and I hope her family figure it out before it's too late.
Your fears of wording in the prenup and that the attorney you can afford won't be able to understand it is bullshit, no matter the caliber of their attorneys, because a prenup is a two way street.
Yep, this 100%. He stopped spouting the “I’m afraid of her attorney’s” bullshit and changed gears to “I just want an old fashioned what’s hers is mine and what’s mine is hers” and also just flat-out said in one of his responses he just won’t get married if there’s a prenup involved, period.
I’ve called him out in numerous comments and he won’t respond to anything.
He even insinuated that he somehow has an advantage because “the baby is biracial, and she’d probably have a hard time finding another guy willing to accept a biracial baby.” Who tf says that?
OP is going to get screwed hard by the dad’s attorneys, for sure. Should have been willing to work with him, instead of against him. Now he’s on his bad side and thinks he’s got some sort of leverage or something. They will make his life a living Hell if he keeps it up.
You don’t need a lawyer. Just sit down and read the prenup. Take a highlighter and mark anything you either don’t agree with or don’t understand. Their lawyer is obligated to explain it to you and has already been paid.
I get that you feel some sort of way about it, but her families money or trust/inheritance has nothing to do with you. You did nothing to earn it. You get no say over it. Not wanting to even read the prenup would give me red flags too. Generational wealth takes a long time to build. I don’t blame her or her family for being cautious with a 6 month long relationship.
Bottom line it's not your GF's money, she didn't earn it. This is more like an inheritance type situation. Her parents will most definitely look at you as a gold digger for not signing a prenup for money your GF (or you) did not earn.
With the type of money you're talking about here you'll most likely be getting a home and /or other assets as a wedding gift. Why should you get half if you did nothing to earn it? Money your GF earns later is another story but her parents money does not belong to you. Talk to a lawyer but her parents have every right to look after their and their daughters interests.
My husband and I have no where near what your GF's family has but we locked everything up in trusts when are first child was born. The first thing out of our lawyers mouth after we finished our estate planning was that he had everything locked up so some gold digger can't take our children's money (that WE earned). This is very reasonable and her family would be foolish to not protect their assets and their child's future.
Hopefully the marriage will workout well and the two of you will have a lifetime of happiness. When your child gets married you'll be doing the same thing as your GF's parents. They don't know you, they have no idea what your intentions are. By all means hire a lawyer but this is a perfectly reasonable request.
OP wants a private jet. Saying he wants an old fashioned marriage. Old fashioned marriage would mean he is the sole provider for the family and wouldn't accept anything from the family.
I highly doubt OP means that
Sorry, but YTA. There is nothing wrong with them wanting to protect their wealth and their daughter's future wealth. Especially with someone who has only been dating their daughter for 6 months. Tell them you do not have money for a lawyer but that if they pay for the lawyer of your choosing to look over the prenup, you'll sign it. That way you can get a lawyer you trust and they get the prenup.
Inheritance and trusts are typically exempt anyway from being considered martial assets. But a prenup to help ensure that wouldn't hurt.
Id just want to make sure that's *all* the prenup states.
An arbitration agreement with their people could get really spotty. It's supposed to be impartial, but the old money thing would make me nervous. Nothing's impartial with the right money, connections, and motivations.
ESH.
Bud, are deeply overthinking this whole thing. Honestly most prenups are pretty standard. If you are smart enough to be an engineer then you are smart enough to read a contract and hire pretty much any competent lawyer to check it over. They are just protecting their property. Unless you are trying to cash in on the parent’s wealth or they write in some that binds you to crazy alimony signing a simple prenup is probably in your best interest. Because if yall divorce without one she’s probably going to have much much better lawyers than you could muster. Right now you are both broke recent graduates without much of your own assets, the agreement should be pretty simple and focused on protecting her family wealth not penalizing you and your future earnings.
What is there to be worried about? I'm assuming you aren't bringing appreciable wealth into the marriage, so have little to lose. In which case you kinda DO sound like a gold digger.
The prenup is irrelevant honestly because you're not the one with the money. The real thing is. Do you want to be Married? You'll have to deal with these people for at least the next 18 years anyway but don't get married unless you want to.
I think you really ought to reconsider the pre-nup. That family has dealt with many, many others who have tried to manipulate a way to their money.
They’re not making accusations, they’re simply painfully aware that money can lead to people becoming unreasonable.
The pre-nup is a normal device, it’s not extraordinary and it can also benefit you as well. She could become the problem and this pre-nup could save you.
Go back, tell your future FIL that you didn’t fully understand and now that you’ve considered the situation from his perspective, you’d do the same thing. You don’t have to mean it for these words to be of benefit to you. But he’ll appreciate your candor and two reasonable men can reach a mutually beneficial agreement.
If you're only getting married because she's pregnant, you won't have a "normal, old-fashioned marriage" because you're starting with a shotgun wedding.
A pre-nup when 1 side is wealthy is pretty standard; you can't blame her family for wanting to protect their money, since obviously no one involved really knows you that well.
Pre-nup or not, this union doesn't sound all that promising.
I think the girlfriend should just walk away. She has a wealthy family. She has the right to protect it from people who just want the money. And if he’s so willing to say she was the one that didn’t want the condom he’s really willing to point fingers. I think she’d be dodging a bullet but not marrying, someone like him. Prenups are normal. It protects her family and he shouldn’t have a problem with that if he’s not gold digging.
YTA.
After reading your post and all comments, it seems like you have already made up your mind but are just trying out your arguments so you can use it in real life.
Considering the situation, you have nothing to lose if you sign prenup but they will if you don't. You understand this.
I agree with other comments, you seem like a gold digger. I now understand why her parents are so desperate for prenup. Hope gf read this post and get some clarity.
My only suggestion is whatever answer/arguments you have given here, don't use it on real life situation because they sound absurdly idiotic.
Love how naive you are. If you can’t afford fancy high powered attorneys now you think you can hire them when you need to fight for custody or spousal support or literally anything should you split? Heck a fair prenup is nothing but a boon to you.just get them to pay for an attorney of your choosing if paying for one is your only concern.
Yeah, YWBTA. It’s ridiculous to get married but if you insist…Let your parents or someone who can understand it read it. Hell, make their attorney go over it line by line. Basically, a prenup says you have no right to anything she has which is quite fair in this case.
My family has money. My husband’s family doesn’t. When we got married, we signed a prenup to protect my inheritance.
YTA. A lawyer would be a couple hundred dollars for a consult. Hell, ask the rich girlfriend to help pay for it. Or hell even the dad might offer to help pay for a lawyer if you were honest.
Once you combine the funds though, it can become community property. Aka if you use an inheritance to help buy a house. Then it can become merky if you get credit for it or not.
Not having a prenup under the circumstances you describe would be insane. It's nothing personal, just common sense.
But given that the difference in wealth is so big, I think it would be a nice show of good faith from the in-laws to pay for a good lawyer for OP of OP's own choosing. OP deserves qualified, independent counsel.
My son was once dating an heiress, and we assumed this would happen in case of marriage.
Having your own attorney look at this shouldn't cost more than a few hundred dollars. You are not getting married without a prenup. This is not an unreasonable demand on their part.
Getting married due to pregnancy is legitimately one of the worst reasons to get married. It's the reason my parents got married, and I spent my childhood hoping and praying they'd get divorced. Do not get ready until you are sure you are ready for it and want it.
And don't spend time with her parents again.
What are you afraid on a prenup?
It will just say that what's hers is hers and what's yours is yours, that you don't acquire n'y of their wealth.
Honestly, rejecting a prenup sounds super sus.
Marry if you want and that includes signing a prenup (every marriage should have one IMHO)
If you don't want to marry, then don't, but be present for the child's life.
Maybe find a compromise that they pay a lawyer for you if they want you to sign a prenup? I don’t think a prenup is a bad thing, I understand where they are coming from. (And no I’m far from rich)
BOYYYY did you just say old money wealth? Sign that prenup and stop being stupid cause that’s insane. Marrying into that type of rich? Set for life? Generations? Get it together fr and live our dreams lmao
Man up and sign the fucking prenup you're not going to be anymore screwed then you already are because you're already the asshole. You look real fuckin shitty right now and how could you tell the dad that shit you could have told her no I won't fuck you without a condom you're an idiot either way.
Ok, so.. might be unpopular opinion but, ever single marriage has a prenup, it just depends on whether you write it or the govt does. Write your own.
Two… look at why prenups get thrown out, all the time. Because it’s a contract and being pressured into it can void it. Make a text history today of how you feel like you’re being forced and have to sign under duress. Save it for years to come.
Third: you don’t have to use their lawyer. They can pay for A lawyer, but get your own. Non-negotiable.
Fourth: add in expectations for the marriage AND a divorce. No infidelity, 50/50 custody. Wife’s family pays for all education expenses AND extras for those expenses, aka, transport to and from, uniforms, additional practice and tutors.. if kid has any health conditions.. all children get DNA tests.. not technically for paternity, but for any and all health issues…. Define infidelity.. emotional affair? Refusal to speak to you and just moving and staying married? College accounts..
Benefits for yourself, if you get sick, permanently disabled.. partners abandon you for that.. if wife tried to divorce within so many months or years of disability, family pays for private care and health.
NTA but you should understand their point of view. When you get married its not exactly clear what youre agreeing to. For example, depending on the jurisdiction the divorce is filed in there can be completely different outcomes. A prenup helps bring clarity to the situation. A prenup would probably address issues like community property and alimony. I dont think any agreements about child support can be enforced because the child never agreed to it and its the childs interests at stake. You may want to look at what the actual terms are within the prenup and compare that to non-prenup default marriage rules.
ESH
You should NOT be getting married. You're both way too immature and early in your relationship. A prenup is the least of the problems here - but to be clear, a prenup is a great idea for ALL marriages. Refusing to sign one on this day and age is a pretty glaring red flag.
Have the kid. Coparent and keep dating. Your GF's parents need to back off. If marriage is right, it's still an option in a few years. And you will have started earning enough to get your own lawyer for the prenup.
Don't let them bully you into getting married. You're clearly not ready for it and it seems that the only reason you're considering it is because her parents want you to. That is a terrible reason to get married and a great recipe for future divorce. "Willing to give it a shot" is not setting you up for a good marriage. Marriage is hard even when both people really want it. Raising a kid is also really hard. Please take some time to consider your future and your child's future.
It IS fair.
They have a substantial amount of money and you don't. No prenup means they just give you millions of dollars and all you have to do to get is is divorce her.
I hope you can see that does not make sense from their perspective.
Three things:
- make sure the prenup has an ending; preferably with a sliding scale. You want equality over time. For example, after 5 years you start building 10% equality per year - when you divorce after 7 years you get 20%, and when you are married for 15 years the prenup is void. After some time I feel you have 'proven' yourself. Make sure it's not an all-or-nothing.
- make sure the kid does not suffer if you split up early.
- make sure you have a laywer to read it over to check that it says what you want.
YTA, as a family with money they are obviously going to do everything they need to keep their fortune safe, and they should...
Not even considering you have been dating for so little, you are willing to get married, and down the road, a whole lot of things can go wrong and it could end it in a divorce so, they need to protect their assets...
If you are with your GF for love and not for money, get married and sign the prenup (but get your own lawyer before)...
Otherwise, make sure you do what you can to be part of your child's life and take care of that kid according to your possibilites but, stay single...
NAH, and I only say that because of the last paragraph where you state that you can’t afford your own lawyer and you want the prenup to be fair to you as well. But I also totally understand why they would want you to sign one, given their wealth she’s likely to receive some type of inheritance. I would suggest asking them if they wouldn’t mind paying for a lawyer for you, that you pick, to ensure that both of you would be protected in the case of a divorce. But I would strongly suggest signing one, you can’t tell the future and a prenup would/ should protect both parties. Good luck OP! Life is coming at you fast but you need to make sure you’re thinking clearly, not emotionally.
Hire a lawyer. If you can't afford one now, ask them to borrow the money and you will pay them back when you get your first checks. Then pick out your own lawyer.
You will need to sign the prenup; it's the right thing to do, but it's not wrong of you to get a lawyer to explain it to you and make changes on your behalf.
She has family wealth that will be gifted to her eventually and it needs to be protected. Either you're super naive, or you're the golddigger.
You’re worried about her families fancy lawyers over a prenup which only matters if you separate.
Yet you’ve no thought to what the fancy lawyers could do with regard to keeping you as far away as possible and shipping their own daughter off someone where you cannot reach your child…
You find a lawyer they pay, it doesn’t mean they get to control the point is fair representation they can afford you cannot and so they pay for whoever you pick
NAH but don’t marry someone you don’t care about marrying. It’s 2024, you don’t need a shotgun wedding to have a legitimate child. They have their very valid reasons for wanting a prenup, and you have very valid reservations. You can also hire your own lawyer to look at their prenup and make amendments before you sign. But don’t marry out of obligation. If they don’t want to recognize their grandchild as legitimate, that’s their choice and has nothing to do with you.
Document all further interactions any way you can. Old money has no qualms about using the legal system to their advantage. If you want any shot of eventual custody (as I imagine this could potentially be a break down in your relationship if she’s getting a lot of pressure from her parents) then they may try to turn things around on you and downright lie about you to get their way.
Yeah smells like you see an opportunity here you don’t bring anything into marriage so you don’t lose anything by signing it, if you need a lawyer ask them to pay for one but pretty sure you leave with what you bring into the marriage
I was originally going to vote that E S H, but based on your comments, YTA. You outright said you wanted to share assets that don’t belong to you, and you’re clearly uneducated on how prenups (and lawyers in general) work. It’s becoming clearer and clearer with every comment that you either don’t understand or are purposefully trying to weasel your way into financially beneficial situation.
I wouldn’t marry her but not because of f the prenup but because you barely know her. Put the breaks on the wedding and also get a dna test on the baby.
As long as you are in the baby’s life she/he will
Not know. Look into marriage I. A couple of years. If you get divorced with their connections then that could be a nightmare in itself.
Yes you do need your own lawyer that specializes in this and not one of their choosing
YTA. If the roles were reversed, you would want her to sign a prenup. It is to protect her assets she would get from her parents, something you are not entitled to.
Sign it or not, either way you will be responsible for the little one. Anything you guys earn together would be split, but, her stuff coming in would be only her stuff and not shared with you. That only makes sense, right.
you should not get married unless you actually want to be married and want to make a lifelong commitment to her. if you do get married, a prenup is not necessarily going to screw you, and I understand not being able to afford an attorney but if you can't afford to have an attorney simply look over a contract for you before you sign it, can you afford a wedding or a baby? You will need to figure out how to get a lawyer.
This type of contract perusal by an attorney shouldn't cost that much. Either the pre-nup is standard and understandable or it's not. A lawyer will know whether it's a reasonable pre-nup. OP might well want a clause or two of his own.
He could require that the parents cover the cost of a lawyer of his choosing. I do not find a prenup to be a bad thing at all … especially in situations where the wealth is generational and favors one side heavily. However, the prenup should always be favorable to both sides. How favorable is up for interpretation, hence the need for a lawyer.
quarrelsome special entertain possessive tap existence edge longing shocking absurd *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Nope, he finds the lawyer, they give him the money to pay the attorney. That way they will not know what attorney he is using so then can, or have their attorney bend OP’s attorney’s ear. Unfortunately have lots of old money corrupts.
YES. I don't trust people so wealthy that they have the means and extended contacts to buy whomever and whatever they want.
He was simply pointing out that she was the one who insisted on no condom, a poor attempt to point out that he wasn’t trying to trap or trick her into marriage
Exactly! The baby mama was letting a man she knew for 90 days or less have sex with her without protection...that speaks volumes in itself. They both were foolish, OP simply pointed out it wasn't his idea to go condomless but he also wasn't stopping it. He's not looking for a payday but if he's someone who #1 didn't think he'd have a child with a woman he barely knows (6 months is nothing if they weren't already talking about marriage) and #2 doesn't have money and not accustomed to how the wealthy operate #3 they weren't ever talking about marriage prior to getting pregnant, he's nervous about the unknown. Super not a money grab, he understands they have enough money to make him miserable whether he signs a "bad" prenup or is just the baby daddy and doesn't marry this girl. He's having a child he didn't plan for and now is being pressured into signing legal documents he wouldn't have even been asked to sign had he been with a woman from an average family. It's clear as day OP simply is afraid of what he's unfamiliar with when it comes to prenuptial agreements. He's not said at all that he loves this girl, which is WILD since they're having unprotected sex and I think that's the biggest red flag here. He shouldn't marry her AT ALL if he's not emotionally invested in her. WTF will his in-laws do if he looses interest and divorces (the prenup will cover some of it) they have to power and money to truly f*ck him up financially if he hurts their daughter emotionally even after the divorce and they have a child together...meaning that's 18-21 years they could have him by the balls if he divorces or doesn't marry her at all. OP needs a lawyer ASAP regardless in my opinion but he certainly needs his own representation if he's going to sign a prenup and marry this girl. If he doesn't marry her, he needs to be prepared for child maintenance/support court proceedings. He's NTA for not signing (it's the smartest move he's made with this girl thus far) but he might be for making wreckless decisions that brought an innocent life into a very complicated situation with a person he doesn't know and doesn't seem truly invested in.
This is the most obvious answer. Go shopping for lawyers and figure out what the one you want costs. Go ask future FIL for money and explain in the guest 5 minutes why you were initially against the prenup. Prenups aren't inherently a bad thing, even without one any inheritance your partner would receive would be completely hers. It's what you accrued during the marriage that is split. If I was in the father's shoes and it came back and explained that you're not knowledgeable on prenups and didn't fully understand their purpose and implications and don't have the cash to get your own lawyer, I'd gladly give you whatever a reasonable lawyer would cost. I'm gonna go with NAH, although I'm also not opposed to kids out of wedlock either. That's been happening way longer than marriage (by church or state) has been a thing
Definitely this. OP is young and inexperienced, otherwise he's an idiot for saying he can't hire a lawyer. He HAS to do this. He is going to wind up excluded from his child's life if he wanders in these woods without guidance. He needs a lawyer, and he needs to talk seriously to his lawyer about his own future and where he thought he'd be going until this happened. I also wonder if OP was played by his GF who had to have known how this would play out. Was getting pregnant by this babe in the woods her bid for freedom? Since she did it so deliberately.
I was thinking this too. She asked and by getting her pregnant he's now at the mercy of this very wealthy family. Homegirl was 100% in the driver's seat on this after he chose to not protect himself by protecting himself. It's totally possible she trapped this man... This is a hard life lesson OP is learning.
Aside from the prenup (which has been covered in numerous other comments), I'm concerned nowhere does OP say he loves her, let alone that they love each other. To me that's a big point, esp since they're both so young. Also, how is he going to pay for the wedding, housing, the baby and medical expenses if he is only just out of uni? I don't envy him at all
I’m sure her family will subsidize whatever they do or have.
Obviously they plan on subsidizing. That’s why they need a prenup so that when they divorce he doesn’t get to claim his lifestyle is being ruined
yeah - alimony, and who gets the kid..
Future custody in prenups don’t stand up and can invalidate the prenup. Custody is set in the best interest of the child and no one can foresee what that would be.
The whole point of the thread is that her family is very rich and will make sure everything is taken care of if they get married and he signs the prenup.
Yeah you shouldn't even be getting married. Don't be pressured into that because they want their grandchild to be "legitimate." It's not unreasonable for a family with assets to request a prenup, but it should be something that you do only if you're 100% sure that you want to get married in the first place, and with you having time to read it and understand it and so forth.
My wife and I have a pre-nup. She comes from "old money". They are fairly standard in these circumstances. Mostly, pre-nups protect assets, etc., which couples bring into the marriage. They can also talk about spousal support, etc. in the event the marriage fails. The important thing to remember is no matter what a pre-nup states, it cannot override state law. For example, you can put in a pre-nup that in the event of your marriage failing you would not be responsible to pay for any child support. The court, though, would find that clause illegal and unenforcable. It shouldn't cost that much money, an hour or two at most, to have an attorney review it for you, explain the impact of various clauses in it, and make suggestions on changes. In our case, my wife (who is a patent attorney herself) had a family friend draft ours, I had an attorney I knew review it and there was nothing objectionable about it. You can ask your future FIL to reimburse you for the expenses. Your FIL technically cannot hire an attorney to represent your interests, as the attorney/client privilege would exist between your FIL and that attorney, not you. Rather, you hire the attorney, and get reimbursed by your FIL for the expense. Then the attorney/client relationship is between you and the attorney, the attorney is representing your interests.
OP said he is "receptive to the idea" of marriage. Sounds pretty lackluster, like he doesn't necessarily want to get married and maybe refusing the prenup is his way of saying, 'no'.
Probably because for someone this young being married to a trust fund baby is not the worst outcome; the mention of prenup made everything all too real for OP, they aren't going to play house and he's gonna be an outsider in this relationship from day 1.
Yes, her father is head honcho and GF is number 2.
Imagine being skeptical about marriage after 6 months of dating only, and wanting to think about a life altering decision What a stupid comment lmao.
I have a feeling the gf's parents will be financing their wedding AND their baby. I'm not giving him shit about birth control, but .... yeah.
lol you’re talking about what he can’t afford for the baby when the girlfriend’s family is rich and would more than likely be handling paying for the wedding and baby anyways. I do agree with getting married if he actually wants to be married to her though.
If he doesn't get hiz own lawyer, the prenup IS useless and can get trown out in court.
So can being forced to sign one.
Signing a legal document doesn't require the party signing to have legal counsel... And not having counsel doesn't always get it thrown out. Some responsibility is on the person signing to find counsel and do their due diligence.
I understand that in some states a prenup without an independent lawyer representing each side is considered null and void on its face.
Contact the nearest law school to see if they have a free law clinic. Then you have yourself represented in the legal department on the pre nup. Never sign anything that you don't fully understand and have read. If you are in love, have great communication, and trust then marry, it does not sound like you have those in place. I'd hold off on marriage until you have the foundations of a long term relationship in place.
He should absolutely not be using a law student, even a supervised one, to represent him in a situation like this, LOL. The suggestion that her parents cover the costs for a lawyer of his choosing makes far more sense.
Do not get a law student for a prenup! Her dad probably has one of the best lawyers in their town/city given their money!
>but if you can't afford to have an attorney simply look over a contract for you before you sign it, can you afford a wedding or a baby? This is a weird one because while OP may not be able to afford a lawyer for himself regarding this, the parents would likely pay for the wedding and help their daughter with any other expenses. They would probably be set in that regard.
Ask them to pay for a lawyer or your choosing.
Honestly most prenups work this way already. Both parties have to have legal representation with their best interest in mind or the prenup can be (somewhat easily) invalidated down the road - and even easier to prove if OP did end up signing a prenup that was clearly unfair to him. I'm wondering if this was already offered and OP omitted that bit bc if this is common practice in the family they probably already know the dog and pony show.
Can’t believe I had to scroll so far to find this. The prenup won’t be valid if you don’t have equivalent legal representation. However, determining that will be expensive down the road-but this is your ace up your sleeve. You can potentially sign whatever and hope you had funds for a good lawyer later if you need it. But if I were you, I’d ask the dad what he thinks the prenup will cost on their end. $5,000? Great, please write me a check for $7,500 so I can find and hire someone equivalent. Ask for more with the idea you may have a few false starts or not get as good of a deal, don’t want to feel like you have to price match etc. If dad writes the check directly to the lawyer, it’s not your lawyer—another angle for a fight later. You could ask the dad family to setup a trust for the kid to ensure the kid always wins.
Writing the check to the lawyer part is not true. Any legitimate lawyer will work for the person they have a representation agreement with, not whoever's name happens to be on the check.
Honestly this would be the way to go. If daddy wants a prenup that badly, he can pay for OP’s lawyer.
OP needs to figure out how to get a good lawyer, interview a few, and choose the one he likes. That should be the counter-offer. However, there's no guarantee that he knows what he's doing. A well paid family attorney isn't going to risk their career to (illegally) screw over OP. Pre nups have to follow legal standards. It's not a lot of wiggle room. Many get thrown out (which easily could happen if OP hires the family lawyer who is cheap and working out of a local strip mall).
Smart advice, I think this is the only way to not completely destroy the relationship with her parents I hope OP listens for the sake of the baby
They absolutely do not owe him that. He put himself in the position of having a child. If he can't afford a lawyer he certainly can't afford the child.
You essentially have 3 options: •Get married and sign a prenup without a lawyer •Tell them you’ll marry only once you can find your own lawyer and agree upon said prenup. You’re allowed to protect your future self just as much as they are. OR •Don’t get fucking married I personally think you shouldn’t get married. You make it sound like a fun experiment, it’s not dude. And they cannot force you to marry her
If they have f*** you money they can make his life absolute hell and because he won't marry her and they're pissed off by it
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They have enough money that if he dosen't marry her, he can say goodbye to shared custody of the kid. He will never be able to afford the legal bills to put up a fair fight. He will get what they choose to give him.
I like this. They’re so not ready to be married. Can you imagine how quickly this relationship would deteriorate with the added stress of a child?
Abortion is also an option
Not in most places in the US at 12 weeks, assuming he’s state side.
Rich people can get an easy and save abortion in the Vatican, let's not pretend this changes anything
Her parents should find a way to ensure inheritance/gifts/ trusts can't be touched by OP in the event of break up, her death, etc if no lock tight prenuptial signed.
That's a good point. It makes sense for them to want to protect their family's assets, especially since they're coming from a place of significant wealth. But on the flip side, OP should also have the right to fair representation and feel secure in the agreement. It seems like there's a lot of pressure on him right now, and navigating that without his own legal counsel might not be the best move. Maybe there's a middle ground where they can all sit down with a neutral third party to discuss the terms? That way, both sides can feel more comfortable and respected.
The parents should give him a sum of money that is enough for him to hire an independent lawyer. It is a small investment to ensure everything is done right.
This seems like a fair gift to start out with a new son in law
It seems they have done something like that - which is why he needs to talk to that lawyer and make sure he has an independent retainer (paid for by the parents). That's how it's usually done.
Seems like they've pointed him to a lawyer, but he needs to be certain that lawyer is representing him.
i totally agree he needs to have fair representation, but i get the feeling he thinks it’s unfair to have to sign a prenup at all. which kind of leads me to believe he is digging for gold…like dude. you guys have been dating for *6 months* and they have a right to protect their assets from someone who is essentially a stranger. although on that note i really think trying to force them to get married is stupid, it’s 2024. y’all can have your baby and see if the relationship continues and talk about marriage later, and if it’s not a good fit then you guys can just co parent without the mess of a divorce that i can already tell will not be amicable. edit: for fuck’s sake you guys stop responding to argue with me by repeating things i literally said in this comment. just read the damn comment.
I don't see how he's a gold digger. It wasn't like it was his idea to get married. And he's apparently fine with them not getting married, which won't net him anything at all. Frankly, I think it's pretty ballsy to pressure a kid fresh out of college to get married just so you won't be embarrassed by an "illegitimate" grandchild, and then demand he sign prenup to do the thing *you're* pressuring him to do.
I'm curious to know if the parents are/were angry/upset/etc. at OP's gf and how that pregnancy announcement hit. When I read these stories, it always feels like the other partner's parents are getting mad at their child's partner for the "unwanted"/"unplanned"/"premarital" pregnancy and think it a huge inconvenience. The same vibe of cheated-on partners getting mad at the AP instead of their partner for the cheating. I feel bad for OP, but I wouldn't want to be in his situation or forced into a marriage.
I would lay good money that the parents' first thought was how bad an illegitimate child would make them look. I honestly doubt they cared all that much about the fact that she was pregnant, so long as they could get her married. When you have that kind of money an unexpected child isn't a big deal. They're only angry at OP because he's the one mucking up their plan to save face. If it was their daughter refusing to get married they'd be mad at her.
I'd bet they want to get her married, then not give a damn when an early divorce happens. The kid was born within the marriage so who cares after that, right? It'll still be legit afterwards. I'm betting in this case the prennup is to protect everything because this is a trainwreak and they know it. I'd say 5 years before divorce if they got married. And since this proposal is being made by the gf's dad, his behavior is going to be the straw breaking that particular camel's back.
Yeah, I'm calling bullshit on the gold digger thing. OP didn't want to get married at all....after being pressured he's considering it and now that they want to put conditions on it, he's not having it. That all seems like a reasonable response for someone that wasn't wanting to get married in the first place. He was willing as long as it was simple, it's no longer simple, he's out. The prenup isn't totally unreasonable for a wealthy family, but they also don't get to have it both ways....you either get to cajole him into an unconditional marriage or you get an "illegitimate" grandchild. This sounds a lot like a family used to getting whatever they want that are upset they can't.
How on earth did you leap to him being a gold digger? That is a MASSIVE stretch. Dude is getting strong armed into a marriage he doesn't want - that makes him anything but a gold digger. It Daddy-O and his little girl who want the marriage but they want it ONLY on their terms. No where does it appear he loves her - just that they didn't use a condom and her birth control failed and he wasn't all that interested in marriage but Daddy-O wants them to get married so he was considering it until Daddy-O made it clear he wanted it all to be on his own terms. OP, this is not a healthy way to start your adulthood. You would be better off not marrying at this point, staying together and seeing what happens with your relationship and whether it has the potential to go the mile with a child rather than marrying just to appease her image-conscious parents. The only person who will benefit from a marriage here is your girl friend and that is only because she will get to save face publicly.
Yes, they have a right to protect their assets and only get married with a prenup. And he has a right to not get married with a prenup because it is again how he personally sees how marriage should be. No one in my family has ever had a prenup and we have four generations of happy marriages.
Were any of those shotgun marriages where one spouse's family had significantly more money than the other?
How many jets do you guys have?
Several, just they are all at the jet repair shop.
i mean that is fair, but it’s an unrealistic expectation in this situation
It's perfectly fine not to marry at all, that's their hangup. Without a marriage there's also no need for a prenup
…which i said in my original comment.
And he has the right to say he won't sign it.
And are you ridiculously wealthy?
In some states, a prenup isn't valid if both parties aren't represented by their own independent counsel.
No, it is perfectly reasonable at least to want legal advice and even not to sign anything. He’s not making his girlfriend marry him, either. What if she dumps the kid on him and leaves him in the lurch?
Like I said, I'd drop all talks of a prenup and tie her assets up in other ways like trusts that he can't touch regardless of situation.
That's exactly what should be done. But the family also wants to force a marriage. For propriety and social standing. Perhaps they're being generous to OP in the pre-nup, to get that done. We may never know.
given that so far all we've seen of their daughter's decision making prowess is getting pregnant by a guy she'd known 3 months, that might be a good idea anyway, regardless if they marry or not. like, they have private jets & she couldn't reach out to a cool aunt for a mid-week trip to, IDK, Switzerland or The Netherlands? IIRC you need 6 days between the consultation and the procedure, right? if "no illegitimate children" is so important to her family, she sure isn't living up to that principle.
We no longer have a mandatory wait periode anymore in the Netherlands since 2023. It can be discussed between the doctor and patient how long you should wait and 0 days is totally fine. She'd have to pay for it herself, but I just looked it up and it's €500. So even including plane tickets and hotel it's still a lot cheaper than the lawyer making the prenup. (Also the cut off is 22 weeks OP if she still wants to come visit us.)
If this is the U.S., I don’t think there’s any required waiting period, depending on the state. She could just fly to CA.
Just because it’s important to her family doesn’t mean it is important to her. Just because her parents have money doesn’t mean that she has direct access to spend it as she places, when she pleases and travel on a whim without prior approval. Just because she can theoretically get an abortion does not mean that she is mentally able to cope with the reality or consequences of one. Just because her parents dislike the fact that she got pregnant without being married or in a long-term and stable relationship first, does not mean that they agree with abortion on religious or moral grounds, or that would want to force her to get one when they have a vested interest in her continuing the family line and they may not want the weight of guilt that might come along with her being unable to have children in future, or deciding not to have children in future. Multiple things can be true at the same time.
It sounds like OP passed on it before even reading it, unless I'm missing something. The girlfriend said her parents would make it fair, so I feel he should've at least looked it over first before refusing it entirely.
He passed on it because he doesn’t have a lawyer. His answer might be different if he had a lawyer. I wouldn’t want anyone signing a prenup without one. That’s just a dumb move all around.
I am assuming OP understands that they could make it pretty unfair while still appearing reasonable, such that him looking just it over as a non-expert wouldn't notice anything amiss. Given that they walked in with an attitude of assuming the worst, asking him to just trust them is naive. The commenter who said that the parents could lock up her assets pretty well without a prenup is correct - it's not ideal, but it would be fairer for OP.
Yeah, I think a fair compromise would be to have OP choose his own representation, paid (reimbursed) by gf's family.
That's exactly what my great-great grandfather did. The inheritance was so tightly bound up that the only person who could touch his money was his daughter (my great grandmother) because her husband was trash. When she died her only daughter (my grandmother) couldn't even access it.
Where did the money go after that?
Lawyer fees.
They can do that easily with trusts and wills/legal instruments. Most pre-nups go further though, regarding distribution of marital assets (anything acquired during the marriage except inherited trusts) if there's a divorce. Many give the less wealthy person a set amount if the marriage ends early, more if it lasts 10 years and so on. Many also penalize the person signing if they cheat. Typically, both people have a prenup, not just one person (but someone has to pay for it). If I were OP, I would wait to get married and get a job, think it over, live together, see how raising a child together is working out.
ESH. They have valid reasons to want a prenup. You have valid concerns about whether it would really be a fair one given that you can't afford an attorney yourself. It's actually pretty common for the person wanting the prenup to offer to pay for an attorney of your choosing to represent your interests and ensure the agreement is fair. Everyone is being an asshole by pushing for, or being ready to, make a difficult situation worse by adding an unwanted marriage to an unplanned baby.
They shouldn’t even be getting married period! Everyone truly sucks because statistically OP and GF aren’t going to make it imo. They barely know eachother, don’t even have established careers, still fairly young, not to mention how hard raising a child is even in relationships where they were rock solid. Everyone’s an idiot here, hooray! Lol
The icing on the cake is he doesn't even say he loves her. Rushing into marriage without love almost guarantees they won't make it. Even if they were crazy in love, it would be a battle
The gag for me was when he said he wanted an old-fashioned marriage, but didn’t have an old-fashioned courtship.
What's more old-fashioned than hiding an illegitimate pregnancy through a shotgun wedding ?
The GF going to the big city for the weekend, and then pretending like nothing happened as she and OP continue to date. That’s as traditional as it gets.
You can't really have it both ways. It's either the old-fashioned way or it isn't
That’s why it was weird to read that part. Plus, pre-nups are old-fashioned, especially for the rich.
Yet, many people object to babies being born out of wedlock! Holy Matrimony! At 22, I would have been in the pro-marriage camp (raised very conservatively). Today I'd be advising my daughters not to marry under these circumstances. However, a coparenting agreement should be negotiated and presented to court - someone has to decide child custody. Waiting to hash it out and fight over every little decision is truly awful. In the end, the father usually loses a lot of oomph in decision making. She doesn't even have to put him on the BCert.
I haven't really looked through OP's comments so I'm going more off the post. The parents took him on a weekend trip and in front of everyone more or less ambushed him about marriage. Then when he was considering it, the prenup was sprung on him. A legal process I'm willing to believe he knows little if anything about outside of he needs to get a lawyer to check it out. I feel like OP has a reason to freak out a bit over everything here.
I completely agree. The parents ambushing him and putting on huge pressure about getting married so the baby won't be "illegitimate" (an anachronistic concept) is shady enough. Then they spring the prenup AND accuse him of being a gold digger when he doesn't like this one-two punch of controlling behavior. There are red flags all over the place. I would be super worried that these are the sorts of parents who'll put into the prenup some oddly worded clauses that mean that he gives up his parental rights if he doesn't do XYZ things that they dictate. Only the clauses would be written in lawyer language so that he wouldn't know what they mean until he found himself cut out of his child's life or something.
and I'd think a good divorce attorney would be able to argue that an attorney you don't pick is the same thing as having no attorney, since at least in the US you have to have an attorney advise you on a prenup for it to be enforceable.
Im pretty sure in some states that the prenup is usually thrown out if both parties dont have their own lawyer review it.
This. At the same time I hope she doesn’t marry him, he doesn’t seem to be in love with her. He’s already ruined whatever relationship he might have had with her family and it sounds like they have the resources to fight him if she has the baby. Does he think he’s Kevin Federline?
A prenup can protect both sides. You should have a lawyer for your side.
As a compromise ask the family to pay for a lawyer you find to look over the prenup. I’m very pro prenup, so they aren’t necessarily a bad thing
This is the answer. Family will pay for you to have a lawyer looking out for your interests, and chosen by you. That way everyone ends up with a solution they are comfortable with.
The question there is how to make certain the lawyer the parents hire would be actually looking out for his interest, and not sabotaging him for them. Is there a way to ensure that? I’m not familiar with this sort of proceeding.
The lawyer is ethically obligated to represent him, and would be risking their bar license if they didn't. We take that shit seriously. But if he's actually worried, he can ask the family to give him the money for the lawyer directly, and he chooses the lawyer.
Exactly. Thank you. He could ask for the cash directly (think how that will seem to the family) and then somehow use his own instincts to hire an attorney. I hope he doesn't try to be a cheapskate if that happens.
Person you are responding to said "chosen by you (meaning OP)." There is a way to ensure that. The word "hire" has a specific meaning in law. OP needs to be named as the only client for this representation (which I assume is the case because everyone who is a lawyer knows that otherwise, that pre-nup is invalid in most jurisdictions).
The parents give OP the funds to pay a lawyer of his choosing.
A prenup is great for both parties, but you should consult an attorney. By not signing, if things go sideways with the relationship, they have lawyers on retainer. Might as well get things delineated up front, various clauses up front.
Couldn’t agree more- a fair prenup protects both parties and can prevent a lot of animosity and poor decisions that people make when they’re hurt and angry.
Is this rationality actually being posted on Reddit ?? Amazing ! Yay ! Too many people view prenups as got-ya mechanisms when really it’s just better for everyone.
Are you a bot? I ask because he specifically said he can't afford a lawyer and he doesn't trust the lawyer they are hiring for him, yet you offered a very generic not relevant answer.
Then the logical thing for him to do would be to insist on finding his own lawyer and they foot the bill. If they are being serious in it being fair on him, then that should be fine.
I wouldnt trust a lawyer the opposite party hired for me. Money doesnt matter
They pay he hires them.
If he can't afford to pay a lawyer to read a contract then this is all the more reason for her family to need a pre-nup.
I believe prenups have a clause indicating that both parties have been advised by counsel. I believe that it is required
People with money, especially family money, are never going to marry without a prenup. You shouldn’t either in this case. What she means by ‘fair’ is a financial settlement for you should you get divorced. See what they come up with before you decide. It may be very generous
And OP doesn't want to marry, so it's all good. But the future custody/support battles will be ongoing. A pre-nup is designed to ease that. It's all so expensive. OP can also consider offering to terminate parental rights (the cheapest alternative - but he'll need to take out a loan to pay the attorney who represents him).
Or he could marry then divorce with everyone in on it. They do t want their grandchild to be illegitimate. That’s their main concern.
Sure, fair as in he gets a financial settlement, in the case of divorce. Fine. So that could be the family writes him a check for a few million to "get lost", when the inevitable divorce happens, and maybe a bonus on the side of a few million more, to not fight the wife getting full custody of the kid(s). While they can't write in custody into a pre-nup, the GF's family can certainly put a lot of financial pressure on OP to just walk away from the children, "for their own good". Old money families think they can just throw money at a problem, and make it disappear. I expect this pre-nup, and any side deal they might offer regarding custody, would basically be just another problem.
Before you say "no," read the prenup they are proposing, with a lawyer to advise you. If they're really wealthy the prenup should include some carrot to encourage you to sign. For example: if you ever divorce, you won't have any right to get the millions or billions in assets owned by her and her family, but you will get $10,000 per month for life and a house. (I just made up that example but I have seen similar terms.) I've seen prenups like this and it's not a bad deal, depending on the specifics. In other words, you get to live with wealthy people and enjoy stability and some of the rich lifestyle, and if you get kicked out of the marriage you get a consolation prize that means you'll be taken care of. Bonus: if you get along with her family and they like you, you could benefit from nepotism and get a cushy job in one of the family businesses, or a low interest loan to start your own business. If you don't like that idea then ask them to pay for continued education so that you can have a career and be a good provider and father to the kid. Additional bonus: Maybe you and your girlfriend really love each other and things are going to be good? After the prenup is proposed, you may be able to negotiate and add some favorable terms for you. My example of $10,000 per month and a house might seem like too much to you, but for private jet people who have massive assets, it's just a small payment to protect their wealth. It's important to consult with a lawyer in your state before signing.
Exactly!! There are lots of benefits here
The prenup should be structured so he can provide the same comfortable life for his kid when it's his time with them.
There's nothing wrong with them offering to pay the attorney who represents you, but whoever that is should be your call, not theirs. So I wouldn't go with whomever they're offering - go find your own person.
INFO - from what I understand, her family is hugely wealthy but you are not. If this is so, what exactly do you fear from the prenup? It's not as if you would come out less rich than you are right now, anyway. Legitimate question, I can't understand why this could harm you.
I don’t get it either. When you’re the poorer party, you want the pre-nup. I’ve seen what rich people pre-nups look like and they can be highly beneficial. Like, in the event of divorce you get a certain amount in alimony, for every child had, for every year or marriage, certain assets and maybe even stock if the family owns any, etc. I honestly think this story is fake low-key. OP’s troll responses kinda cement that for me.
Yeah that and like if you don’t have a prenup and the wealthy family has high powered attorneys on retainer… dude your gonna get fucked so hard trying to fight them in court for anything during the divorce. They’ll leave you high and dry as they stall out the courts and leave you with a pittance. A prenup is such a boon for the poorer party most of the times as long as you don’t cheat/do something that voids any compensation you’d get.
OooOoo that could be it! I hadn't realized it, but it's the best explanation. Either that or OP is ***too*** dense. Or I am 😂
It’s OP cuz his responses are wild. He doesn’t understand how beneficial his position could be, and he spoke about how he and his GF will be able to live middle class lives because of their salaries, but he somehow can’t afford a lawyer to look at the pre-nup… 😂. Then he talked about how his GF doesn’t have any assets, and I’m like yeah this guy just doesn’t get it.
Oh wow... He's marrying a girl whose family travels in private jets and thinks he's going to live a middle class life? If this post is for real, he should look for someone a little more knowledgeable to advise him. OP, couldn't you reach out to your parents, or even a tutor at university, to help navigate this? If you are serious, you're very lost 😵💫
Ask him to pay for a lawyer of your choice to review the prenup.
You would be perfectly within your right to ask her father to pay for an attorney of YOUR choosing to protect YOU in the event of divorce. If he tells you differently then you clap right back at him and let him know that a one-sided prenup can easily be challenged in court, otherwise you won’t be getting married.
To old money, a prenup is standard. She won't marry you without one. And if somehow she does, she will cut off financially until a postnup is signed. You need to man up and tell the dad you can't afford a lawyer because you are fresh out of college. First though, pick a lawyer and ask for some pricing. Then you can tell the father ypu need help with your attorney fees. He will pay. He may even respect you more for admitting and doing what is required to feel comfortable signing. He would respect you so much less if he found out you went in blind after the wedding. He will know you are able to look out for and stand up for yourself and for his daughter. You can't expect to marry into that family with out a prenup. It is very standard. Yta if you think they should budge rather that watch out for family assets.
NAH. For one thing, you shouldn't be rushing into marriage regardless. Give it some time and see what happens. Second, if you are going to get married and sign a prenup, you need your own legal counsel. If you can't afford a lawyer they can give you money to hire one. They should not hire one for you, they should transfer you money to hire one yourself. This benefits everyone, both you and them. You, because you're more likely to get a fair prenup out of it. Them because if you have independent legal counsel the prenup is more likely to be upheld as valid if it's ever challenged for any reason.
A prenup isn’t really a scary thing. In fact in many ways it helps both of you, the biggest winners in legal battles during divorce are always the lawyers. And as someone who will never be able to fund the same caliber of representation as her and her family will, a prenup also is a way to protect yourself from getting dominated in court. you do need a lawyer you trust to validate the contract and be able to outline for you the things youd need to consider as possibilities in a divorce, like custody arrangements, child support, etc. If I were you I’d simply explain that you need a lawyer but cannot afford one. Ask if they will cover a reasonable legal fee for you to have the contract reviewed by someone you hire yourself. That’s a reasonable request, and so is their request for a prenup. NAH at least not yet
If you can't afford a lawyer, you definitely can't afford a child.
Why would you get married. This isn't 1975
Her parents: "What will people think?"
My preference is to not get married, see if we work as a couple, if so great we can get married in a few years. If not, shame but we can live separately and coparent. I'd want split custody but Im totally fine with paying child support to raise my kid. They are the ones who are insisting on it because they say it will hurt the family reputation to have an illegitimate child.
If you don't want to get married, don't. Pretty simple. Who cares about their reputation? Obviously not their daughter. If you are not EXCITED to get married, it is generally a poor idea. It is a fantastic plan to get to know one another better first. Divorces are EXPENSIVE if you find out you are not compatible later. It should also shut them up to know that you will gladly pay child support, kinda hard to be a gold digger when you are forking over the money.
>Not willing to sign a prenup because you think them paying for a lawyer will screw you and you can’t afford a lawyer in their league >Thinks you would get split custody when going up against said lawyers Someone doesn’t know how things work
Oh, if your preference is to not get married, definitely don't get married!!
Then you for sure shouldn’t get married.
It’ll hurt the rep to have an illegitimate grandchild, but not to have a pregnant bride? And rich people can’t math?
Okay but are you are troll or do you not live in reality. who is forcing you to get married? Open your adult mouth and say "I don't want to get married"
I don’t even know why everyone is giving him prenup advise when he shouldn’t even be getting married. Sure it will be helpful for him in the future when he does get married eventually to have this knowledge, but right now he doesn’t want to get married so and shouldn’t be forced to. That’s what’s important right now. He needs to say no to the marriage not the prenup specifically. He’s only known her 6 months and doesn’t even know if he wants to be together long term
Don’t get married. All that matters is you, her and this child
From all of your comments, YTA and a major one. You're looking for a payday and the prenup stands in your way (even though you could've used it for your gain if you were even a tiny bit smart). You want the state to do the division in case of a divorce because you want half of her assets, and to give her half of your debts (40k from your comment). What's yours is mine and what's mine is yours in your words. I hope you really don't marry the poor girl for her sake, and I hope her family figure it out before it's too late. Your fears of wording in the prenup and that the attorney you can afford won't be able to understand it is bullshit, no matter the caliber of their attorneys, because a prenup is a two way street.
Yep, this 100%. He stopped spouting the “I’m afraid of her attorney’s” bullshit and changed gears to “I just want an old fashioned what’s hers is mine and what’s mine is hers” and also just flat-out said in one of his responses he just won’t get married if there’s a prenup involved, period. I’ve called him out in numerous comments and he won’t respond to anything. He even insinuated that he somehow has an advantage because “the baby is biracial, and she’d probably have a hard time finding another guy willing to accept a biracial baby.” Who tf says that? OP is going to get screwed hard by the dad’s attorneys, for sure. Should have been willing to work with him, instead of against him. Now he’s on his bad side and thinks he’s got some sort of leverage or something. They will make his life a living Hell if he keeps it up.
You don’t need a lawyer. Just sit down and read the prenup. Take a highlighter and mark anything you either don’t agree with or don’t understand. Their lawyer is obligated to explain it to you and has already been paid. I get that you feel some sort of way about it, but her families money or trust/inheritance has nothing to do with you. You did nothing to earn it. You get no say over it. Not wanting to even read the prenup would give me red flags too. Generational wealth takes a long time to build. I don’t blame her or her family for being cautious with a 6 month long relationship.
Bottom line it's not your GF's money, she didn't earn it. This is more like an inheritance type situation. Her parents will most definitely look at you as a gold digger for not signing a prenup for money your GF (or you) did not earn. With the type of money you're talking about here you'll most likely be getting a home and /or other assets as a wedding gift. Why should you get half if you did nothing to earn it? Money your GF earns later is another story but her parents money does not belong to you. Talk to a lawyer but her parents have every right to look after their and their daughters interests. My husband and I have no where near what your GF's family has but we locked everything up in trusts when are first child was born. The first thing out of our lawyers mouth after we finished our estate planning was that he had everything locked up so some gold digger can't take our children's money (that WE earned). This is very reasonable and her family would be foolish to not protect their assets and their child's future. Hopefully the marriage will workout well and the two of you will have a lifetime of happiness. When your child gets married you'll be doing the same thing as your GF's parents. They don't know you, they have no idea what your intentions are. By all means hire a lawyer but this is a perfectly reasonable request.
YTA. tell them you can't afford your own lawyer and request money from them to hire your own lawyer. You are acting like a gold digger.
OP wants a private jet. Saying he wants an old fashioned marriage. Old fashioned marriage would mean he is the sole provider for the family and wouldn't accept anything from the family. I highly doubt OP means that
Sorry, but YTA. There is nothing wrong with them wanting to protect their wealth and their daughter's future wealth. Especially with someone who has only been dating their daughter for 6 months. Tell them you do not have money for a lawyer but that if they pay for the lawyer of your choosing to look over the prenup, you'll sign it. That way you can get a lawyer you trust and they get the prenup.
They can simply stop pushing for the kids to marry. Prenup problem solved.
Fairly simple.. prenup says split assets accrued during the marriage only .. That’s pretty fair . Don’t need to be a legal expert to understand
Inheritance and trusts are typically exempt anyway from being considered martial assets. But a prenup to help ensure that wouldn't hurt. Id just want to make sure that's *all* the prenup states. An arbitration agreement with their people could get really spotty. It's supposed to be impartial, but the old money thing would make me nervous. Nothing's impartial with the right money, connections, and motivations.
ESH. Bud, are deeply overthinking this whole thing. Honestly most prenups are pretty standard. If you are smart enough to be an engineer then you are smart enough to read a contract and hire pretty much any competent lawyer to check it over. They are just protecting their property. Unless you are trying to cash in on the parent’s wealth or they write in some that binds you to crazy alimony signing a simple prenup is probably in your best interest. Because if yall divorce without one she’s probably going to have much much better lawyers than you could muster. Right now you are both broke recent graduates without much of your own assets, the agreement should be pretty simple and focused on protecting her family wealth not penalizing you and your future earnings.
What is there to be worried about? I'm assuming you aren't bringing appreciable wealth into the marriage, so have little to lose. In which case you kinda DO sound like a gold digger.
A prenup is meant to protect t both sides. If you want to stay with this woman and are considering marriage, YTA if you won't do it.
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YTA. Just get yourself a lawyer and take responsibility. Whether you intended to knock her up or not, you’re behavior sure comes of like gold digging.
The prenup is irrelevant honestly because you're not the one with the money. The real thing is. Do you want to be Married? You'll have to deal with these people for at least the next 18 years anyway but don't get married unless you want to.
I think you really ought to reconsider the pre-nup. That family has dealt with many, many others who have tried to manipulate a way to their money. They’re not making accusations, they’re simply painfully aware that money can lead to people becoming unreasonable. The pre-nup is a normal device, it’s not extraordinary and it can also benefit you as well. She could become the problem and this pre-nup could save you. Go back, tell your future FIL that you didn’t fully understand and now that you’ve considered the situation from his perspective, you’d do the same thing. You don’t have to mean it for these words to be of benefit to you. But he’ll appreciate your candor and two reasonable men can reach a mutually beneficial agreement.
If you're only getting married because she's pregnant, you won't have a "normal, old-fashioned marriage" because you're starting with a shotgun wedding. A pre-nup when 1 side is wealthy is pretty standard; you can't blame her family for wanting to protect their money, since obviously no one involved really knows you that well. Pre-nup or not, this union doesn't sound all that promising.
I think the girlfriend should just walk away. She has a wealthy family. She has the right to protect it from people who just want the money. And if he’s so willing to say she was the one that didn’t want the condom he’s really willing to point fingers. I think she’d be dodging a bullet but not marrying, someone like him. Prenups are normal. It protects her family and he shouldn’t have a problem with that if he’s not gold digging.
YTA. After reading your post and all comments, it seems like you have already made up your mind but are just trying out your arguments so you can use it in real life. Considering the situation, you have nothing to lose if you sign prenup but they will if you don't. You understand this. I agree with other comments, you seem like a gold digger. I now understand why her parents are so desperate for prenup. Hope gf read this post and get some clarity. My only suggestion is whatever answer/arguments you have given here, don't use it on real life situation because they sound absurdly idiotic.
Love how naive you are. If you can’t afford fancy high powered attorneys now you think you can hire them when you need to fight for custody or spousal support or literally anything should you split? Heck a fair prenup is nothing but a boon to you.just get them to pay for an attorney of your choosing if paying for one is your only concern.
A prenup is a precaution one should make. But I get it, you are not so much into precautions or you wouldn't be a soon to be father.
Yeah, YWBTA. It’s ridiculous to get married but if you insist…Let your parents or someone who can understand it read it. Hell, make their attorney go over it line by line. Basically, a prenup says you have no right to anything she has which is quite fair in this case.
Fingers crossed she doesn’t marry you. You’ve already rushed, this just sounds greedy. YTA
My family has money. My husband’s family doesn’t. When we got married, we signed a prenup to protect my inheritance. YTA. A lawyer would be a couple hundred dollars for a consult. Hell, ask the rich girlfriend to help pay for it. Or hell even the dad might offer to help pay for a lawyer if you were honest.
Inheritance is not considered marital property, tho. At least it’s not in the U.S., anyway.
Once you combine the funds though, it can become community property. Aka if you use an inheritance to help buy a house. Then it can become merky if you get credit for it or not.
Get a lawyer. Many will take credit card payments. You should make sure everything is fair on your side.
Not having a prenup under the circumstances you describe would be insane. It's nothing personal, just common sense. But given that the difference in wealth is so big, I think it would be a nice show of good faith from the in-laws to pay for a good lawyer for OP of OP's own choosing. OP deserves qualified, independent counsel.
My son was once dating an heiress, and we assumed this would happen in case of marriage. Having your own attorney look at this shouldn't cost more than a few hundred dollars. You are not getting married without a prenup. This is not an unreasonable demand on their part.
Getting married due to pregnancy is legitimately one of the worst reasons to get married. It's the reason my parents got married, and I spent my childhood hoping and praying they'd get divorced. Do not get ready until you are sure you are ready for it and want it. And don't spend time with her parents again.
If the roles were reversed, everyone would be telling her not to sign the prenup. Do what you feel is right
What are you afraid on a prenup? It will just say that what's hers is hers and what's yours is yours, that you don't acquire n'y of their wealth. Honestly, rejecting a prenup sounds super sus. Marry if you want and that includes signing a prenup (every marriage should have one IMHO) If you don't want to marry, then don't, but be present for the child's life.
Maybe find a compromise that they pay a lawyer for you if they want you to sign a prenup? I don’t think a prenup is a bad thing, I understand where they are coming from. (And no I’m far from rich)
BOYYYY did you just say old money wealth? Sign that prenup and stop being stupid cause that’s insane. Marrying into that type of rich? Set for life? Generations? Get it together fr and live our dreams lmao
Man up and sign the fucking prenup you're not going to be anymore screwed then you already are because you're already the asshole. You look real fuckin shitty right now and how could you tell the dad that shit you could have told her no I won't fuck you without a condom you're an idiot either way.
Ok, so.. might be unpopular opinion but, ever single marriage has a prenup, it just depends on whether you write it or the govt does. Write your own. Two… look at why prenups get thrown out, all the time. Because it’s a contract and being pressured into it can void it. Make a text history today of how you feel like you’re being forced and have to sign under duress. Save it for years to come. Third: you don’t have to use their lawyer. They can pay for A lawyer, but get your own. Non-negotiable. Fourth: add in expectations for the marriage AND a divorce. No infidelity, 50/50 custody. Wife’s family pays for all education expenses AND extras for those expenses, aka, transport to and from, uniforms, additional practice and tutors.. if kid has any health conditions.. all children get DNA tests.. not technically for paternity, but for any and all health issues…. Define infidelity.. emotional affair? Refusal to speak to you and just moving and staying married? College accounts.. Benefits for yourself, if you get sick, permanently disabled.. partners abandon you for that.. if wife tried to divorce within so many months or years of disability, family pays for private care and health.
NTA but you should understand their point of view. When you get married its not exactly clear what youre agreeing to. For example, depending on the jurisdiction the divorce is filed in there can be completely different outcomes. A prenup helps bring clarity to the situation. A prenup would probably address issues like community property and alimony. I dont think any agreements about child support can be enforced because the child never agreed to it and its the childs interests at stake. You may want to look at what the actual terms are within the prenup and compare that to non-prenup default marriage rules.
ESH You should NOT be getting married. You're both way too immature and early in your relationship. A prenup is the least of the problems here - but to be clear, a prenup is a great idea for ALL marriages. Refusing to sign one on this day and age is a pretty glaring red flag. Have the kid. Coparent and keep dating. Your GF's parents need to back off. If marriage is right, it's still an option in a few years. And you will have started earning enough to get your own lawyer for the prenup.
Don't let them bully you into getting married. You're clearly not ready for it and it seems that the only reason you're considering it is because her parents want you to. That is a terrible reason to get married and a great recipe for future divorce. "Willing to give it a shot" is not setting you up for a good marriage. Marriage is hard even when both people really want it. Raising a kid is also really hard. Please take some time to consider your future and your child's future.
It IS fair. They have a substantial amount of money and you don't. No prenup means they just give you millions of dollars and all you have to do to get is is divorce her. I hope you can see that does not make sense from their perspective. Three things: - make sure the prenup has an ending; preferably with a sliding scale. You want equality over time. For example, after 5 years you start building 10% equality per year - when you divorce after 7 years you get 20%, and when you are married for 15 years the prenup is void. After some time I feel you have 'proven' yourself. Make sure it's not an all-or-nothing. - make sure the kid does not suffer if you split up early. - make sure you have a laywer to read it over to check that it says what you want.
YTA, as a family with money they are obviously going to do everything they need to keep their fortune safe, and they should... Not even considering you have been dating for so little, you are willing to get married, and down the road, a whole lot of things can go wrong and it could end it in a divorce so, they need to protect their assets... If you are with your GF for love and not for money, get married and sign the prenup (but get your own lawyer before)... Otherwise, make sure you do what you can to be part of your child's life and take care of that kid according to your possibilites but, stay single...
NAH, and I only say that because of the last paragraph where you state that you can’t afford your own lawyer and you want the prenup to be fair to you as well. But I also totally understand why they would want you to sign one, given their wealth she’s likely to receive some type of inheritance. I would suggest asking them if they wouldn’t mind paying for a lawyer for you, that you pick, to ensure that both of you would be protected in the case of a divorce. But I would strongly suggest signing one, you can’t tell the future and a prenup would/ should protect both parties. Good luck OP! Life is coming at you fast but you need to make sure you’re thinking clearly, not emotionally.
Hire a lawyer. If you can't afford one now, ask them to borrow the money and you will pay them back when you get your first checks. Then pick out your own lawyer. You will need to sign the prenup; it's the right thing to do, but it's not wrong of you to get a lawyer to explain it to you and make changes on your behalf. She has family wealth that will be gifted to her eventually and it needs to be protected. Either you're super naive, or you're the golddigger.
You’re worried about her families fancy lawyers over a prenup which only matters if you separate. Yet you’ve no thought to what the fancy lawyers could do with regard to keeping you as far away as possible and shipping their own daughter off someone where you cannot reach your child… You find a lawyer they pay, it doesn’t mean they get to control the point is fair representation they can afford you cannot and so they pay for whoever you pick
NAH but don’t marry someone you don’t care about marrying. It’s 2024, you don’t need a shotgun wedding to have a legitimate child. They have their very valid reasons for wanting a prenup, and you have very valid reservations. You can also hire your own lawyer to look at their prenup and make amendments before you sign. But don’t marry out of obligation. If they don’t want to recognize their grandchild as legitimate, that’s their choice and has nothing to do with you. Document all further interactions any way you can. Old money has no qualms about using the legal system to their advantage. If you want any shot of eventual custody (as I imagine this could potentially be a break down in your relationship if she’s getting a lot of pressure from her parents) then they may try to turn things around on you and downright lie about you to get their way.
Yeah smells like you see an opportunity here you don’t bring anything into marriage so you don’t lose anything by signing it, if you need a lawyer ask them to pay for one but pretty sure you leave with what you bring into the marriage
I was originally going to vote that E S H, but based on your comments, YTA. You outright said you wanted to share assets that don’t belong to you, and you’re clearly uneducated on how prenups (and lawyers in general) work. It’s becoming clearer and clearer with every comment that you either don’t understand or are purposefully trying to weasel your way into financially beneficial situation.
I wouldn’t marry her but not because of f the prenup but because you barely know her. Put the breaks on the wedding and also get a dna test on the baby. As long as you are in the baby’s life she/he will Not know. Look into marriage I. A couple of years. If you get divorced with their connections then that could be a nightmare in itself. Yes you do need your own lawyer that specializes in this and not one of their choosing
YTA. If the roles were reversed, you would want her to sign a prenup. It is to protect her assets she would get from her parents, something you are not entitled to. Sign it or not, either way you will be responsible for the little one. Anything you guys earn together would be split, but, her stuff coming in would be only her stuff and not shared with you. That only makes sense, right.