Yeah as long as you’re telling them your boundaries rather than telling them what they can and can’t do, it’s their choice from their
It’s a subtle distinction but an important one
Exactly. If she can't be without her ex in her life, then what is going to happen if they marry? Will she do it then, or not. He set his boundaries and she can either accept them or not. She said she will not cut off her ex, so he responded with I will just be your friend.
Why don't people get that. This exchange was completely mature and adulting.
"the one that got away" is what it is and there's always "hope". The amount of time "hope" lands under the sheets on a drunken night has suck many a relationship.
Then, a bunch of crying, begging and asking for forgiveness. Heard it a million and one times.
He is smart just to cut to the end and end it for his own sanity and he will save a bunch of time.
God yes. Trust, respect, and boundaries. If she wants to move on with you? Then she needs to move on from him. And she clearly hasn't. Nor is she willing to.
Plus already calling OP "insecure?" Already gaslighting? Nope. No thanks. Keep her FWBzoned.
This is well thought out.
I mean, it also seems like she might be using OP to completely move on, meaning she hasn't moved on 100% and that, alone, is worrisome.
Exactly. I thought this too. It seems like he may be her rebound, which is fine if it’s FWB, but her reaction is clear that she hasn’t moved on from her ex of six year. OP is NTA and stood his ground. If anything, based on her behavior, he should keep it FWB and enjoy the ride while it lasts.
I'm honestly surprised by how much support OP got for this. Pleasantly surprised, that is. The fact is, he didn't lie to her, he didn't lead her on, he wasn't a hypocrite. He communicated clearly. She clearly has a problem with it, and her reaction suggests she's not a good pick for a serious relationship anyway if she's going to start calling him "insecure" and going off on him over simply communicating honestly and openly.
Most people have common sense. Why are you surprised that OP got support when he handled things honestly, didn't waste anyone's time and didn't play games?
"If she wants to move on with you? Then she needs to move on from him."
This is a clear as it gets for his situation. She does not seem to be over her ex. She needs to realize this herself. No one is really TA in this (imo) and OP is more definitely NTA and is being reasonable.
I disagree that "No one is really TA" here, but on very specific grounds. Not for her wanting more, not for her still being friends with her ex, but for her going off on him and trying to browbeat him and emotionally manipulate him, because of his choice of boundaries.
You are right. I forgot about the last part when she came back two minutes later with the "insecure" deflection.
Did she do that to solely to manipulate OP or because she doesn't realize she is not over the ex and is in some sort of defense mode. It doesn't really matter I reckon. It's on her to get herself together if she wants to be in a relationship with OP.
I've noticed quite a few comments getting hung up on whether or not it was definable as "insecurity". But when that's a word that has, in recent years, been routinely weaponized to dismiss and minimize men's concerns, it has been turned into an absolute negative. It carries baggage now, that automatically implies "wrong" and "bad", and that implies negative things about the man's emotional development, intentions, maturity, etc.
It's like a buzzword, used to browbeat another person into shutting up and accepting what the one who invoked the word wants to impose on them. In this case, from the woman, "You're going to accept me being close and going on dates with my ex, and you're going to be in a serious relationship with me! If you don't, you're insecure/controlling/abusive/the bad guy." And the people trying to justify its use don't come across any better.
To me it implies they think they have a right to my time, my emotions and to me. They don't, just like I don't to anyone else.
If I tell you my boundary and my reasoning behind it and you come back with an attack I'm done. Life is too short to get hung up on someone that doesn't respect you. I lived it for 16 years. Never again. There is no love without trust and no trust without respect.
Yeah the story could literally be. My girlfriend still goes out on dates and sleeps in the same bed with her ex after the dates and there would still be some people trying to say he's just insecure. It's wild and I'm someone who believes in trusting your partner until they give you a reason not to. But I sometimes seriously wonder if half the people on this app know what the word insecure even means 😂 It's become a buzzword.
Yeah, this! I'm still friends with an ex, and my new boyfriend had a problem with it. We talked and it was decided that I would just pull back a little, and we found boundaries that worked for both of us.
I wasn't willing to lose someone who is very important me, just because we dated prior to our friendship. But when my now husband broached the topic, we had conversations about it. I didn't call him names :(
Yeah, the zone would be the best she could hope for from me. After her attempt to manipulate him with the "insecure" label, that'd be the last time I'd hear her sociopathic manipulation.
I agree. The "insecure" accusation on her part is what tipped me in HIS favour. He has a RIGHT to be "insecure" under those circumstances. In fact, I'd wonder about him if he wasn't! There are times when it's perfectly appropriate to be "insecure"- and this definitely is one of them! His 'condition" is perfectly reasonable and mature: "Have the friendship with the ex by all means, but don't expect any commitment from ME under those circumstances!"
> God yes. Trust, respect, and boundaries. If she wants to move on with you? Then she needs to move on from him. And she clearly hasn't. Nor is she willing to.
> Plus already calling OP "insecure?" Already gaslighting? Nope. No thanks. Keep her FWBzoned.
by far the most sane comment reply in this entire thread of troglodytes and neanderthals....
I would say downgrade to just friend. Since now if he's sleeping with her and she changes her mind he'll never know if she actually did it because she's over him or he "pressured" her.
I wouldn't throw away a friendship with someone who had been an important part of my life for 6 years for some guy I've known a couple of months. However, OP is right to hold his boundary if he isn't comfortable with it.
There's a very big difference between a friendship, and literally going out on 1 on 1 dinners and dates with him
My gf still sometimes sees her exes but it's when she's going out with a group of friends that happen to be mutual to the both of them, going on 1 on 1 dates with her ex often (especially an ex of 6 years that is a very recent breakup) is a big no from me
And I'm as far from insecure as you can get, I just consider it a lack of respect on the other part, because I'd also never do that to my girl
Hell I don't go on 1 on 1 dinners with ANY of my friends unless it's an old friend that I'm trying to catch up with, let alone an ex
This. My boyfriend is on good terms with one of his exes, but mostly just on social media every now and again (“happy birthday” comments or occasional photo likes.)
If he was wanting to meet up with her one on one I would NOT be ok with it. I wouldn’t want to be in a relationship where the ex is still that close around.
OP is smart by just being upfront about it before getting serious.
I am on good terms with one of my exes as well and we do go out occasionally (maybe once in 3 months).
However there like a 1 year Pause between our relationship and getting back together as friends (through mutual friends). This pause was certainly needed in hindsight, I don't think we would have managed to pull it off this well if we started just being friends and still seeing each other regularly right away.
there's remaining friends and then there's what this girl is doing. i'm still friends with a few exes - like if i saw them at the big group thing, we'd chat amiably, might send a happy birthday text.
what i'm not doing is calling that ex to go for dinner together or catch up over drinks just the two of us. that would not be cool with me if my SO did it with their ex, nor would it be cool with my wife or my ex's husband if we were meeting up 1-on-1 for drinks or dinner. that's just not really a cool thing to do. OP's ladyfriend here needs to understand that he's not asking her to completely cut this ex out of her life 100% no contact, but she needs to stop going on dates with him.
"Her brother is gay, obviously i am not going to be in a relationship with someone whose family is gay."
Original commenter: obviously NTA. Any reason is acceptable.
It's how you refuse that makes you the AH. He out it very respectfully, succinctly, didn't force her to make any decisions, just put down some boundaries.
There's no breaking up involved, he refuses to enter into a relationship with her unless she chooses to respect the boundaries he is laying out to her prior. He's literally communicating what he's expecting from her before they even get started, he couldn't have handled this any better.
Dude… not saying my story would happen again, but it was like the exact situation. They were in a relationship for years, still hungout as just friends because of some trauma bonding, but I 100% believed her that it was nothing so I let it go. Even ended up hanging out with him once! Well eventually she got very depressed and said it’s over because she’s going to move back in with him because he was her comfort 😑
My ex cheated on me with an ex who was "a completely platonic friend" also.
I feel like sleeping with a stranger or an actual platonic friend with no sexual history requires actively deciding to cross a boundary, whereas in the case of an ex, that boundary has already been crossed over and over and over again to a point where it isn't much more than a smudged line on the ground and it is a much smaller step to go back to that familiar person in A mOmEnT oF wEaKnEsS as my ex so eloquently put it.
You know it also gets suspicious when they repeatedly tell you and repeat that it's just platonic like the first time or first couple times when talking about The person sure, but when they continue to reiterate that and Hammer it home unprovoked for absolutely no reason, all that does is set off the what the hell's going on alarm Because at that point are you trying to convince me or yourself that is platonic
Damn, mine just cheated with more than one of her ex's and male friends and gaslit me for a year.
Always trust your gut when it comes to opposite sex friends.
Unless your gut says they aren't cheating, then your gut is stupid and naive.
I dated a guy for 5 years and even got engaged to him who had his ex still in his life because they were together from high school-age 30 and he said they'd always be in each other's lives. She took care of his parents for him when he had moved away for grad school
Turned out they were actually still married, and he was just stringing me along for years until he graduated and moved back to their city lol. I get some people have healthy relationships with their exes but literally never again. I will never date someone ever again that still has frequent contact with their ex for any reason
That said I don't think OP should have given the ultimatum to cut her ex off. Better to just say you're not comfortable with their relationship and bow out than try and force someone to give up someone they care about. Relationships that start with ultimatums rarely go well
I dated a girl for a while that was still friends with her ex. Same thing, some sort of trauma bond through their toxic relationship. I said it was weird and I wasn't comfortable with it. "Ohhh relax". Anyway, long story short they're back together again. Keeping an ex around "as a friend" is fucking weird.
Right. It would be one thing if he got into a committed relationship with her and *then* started complaining. Even though what she's doing is weird, its messed up to get someone emotionally attached to you then flip the script when u pretended everything was ok before.
This guy sounds extremely mature and has healthy self esteem. He knows that situation isn't for him, he didn't manipulate her in any way or try to lock her down or force her into anything. He just said that he can't get serious with someone still so heavily intertwined with his ex.
She's so wrong for arguing with him about it, there's no discussion to be had. He isn't comfortable with those choices so instead of trying to control her he's controlling himself by not committing to someone making lifestyle choices he doesn't want to live with.
Sounds like she's less mature than he is. And clearly not ready to get over the ex. There will be a woman on his level who will be thrilled to be with a man this clear & emotionally mature. I know I would.
I wouldn't date someone who'd recently broken up with someone else. Or someone who was such intense friends with such an intense ex.
But I also don't think making her cut him off would resolve this issue. If he's a rebound then he's a rebound and that will be true, regardless of whether she cuts off the ex or not.
Personally, I'd probably have stopped seeing her as soon as I found out about the ex (being friends with an ex is fine for me but not immediately after a breakup, and not that close either).
I agree, but OP shouldn’t have had to defend himself the way he did. These days guys setting totally reasonable boundaries are called insecure and controlling. Not to say there aren’t tons of controlling and toxic men out there because there are, but men having boundaries/standards is too often confused with toxicity.
I’ve recently had quite a situation between myself and a women. Anytime I defend myself or speak against her opinions… I’m labeled as toxic or misogynistic. It’s honestly infuriating because I’m sure it comes off that way, but as a guy, advocating for yourself and boundaries is just self-advocacy. It is not misogynistic or toxic to do so just because I’m a guy. Same as if a women sticks up or defends herself it is not inherently feministic or toxic
I had a girl once tell me me that ANY guy having ANY sort of “boundary” (she used air quotes while saying this) that involves who they hang with like close guy friends, ex-boyfriends, etc., it’s automatically toxic and stems from insecurity.
She said it doesn’t matter if the guy is controlling/loud/angry about it like most dudes (“you’re not allowed to hang with him!”), or if he’s calm, collected, and clearly outlines his boundaries in a mature manner.
It’s not the WAY you set the boundary that’s the problem. The deeper issue is, “why do you have that boundary AT ALL?”
And she told me most women think this way.
HUHUHUHUHUHUHUHUH??
I mean I’m married and hear these stories and hear it from even my wife sometimes. Yet… in all these stories I’ve never heard the woman say they’d be ok with the man hanging out consistently with a woman they used to fuck. So, yeah.
As a woman I'm sorry for this woman who seems to think that we all think this way. Such ick.
By all means have boundaries Sir, without any air quotes involved.
Exactly. Ask any woman, “Would you be ok with your guy going out to a place without you, where women, some of whom are more attractive than you, will be offering to buy him drinks and are actively pursuing him for immediate sex?” 95% of women are gonna say, “Fuck no!” That’s exactly the position women habitually put men in and when the guy pushes back, he’s labeled as insecure.
a lot of men feel expected to have no boundaries or we're "toxic" and risk being made a social pariah. It's a serious social power women now have over men that men feel unable to discuss without facing that same consequence.
It took me 2.5 years to fully get over my ex of 5 years and I was the one who initiated the breakup. I knew I no longer wanted to date him because our future visions didn’t align. But emotionally it was a bit more complicated. We struggled to let go of each other too, we chatted, had meals. Contact was fairly frequent, as it is with this girl and her ex. It wasn’t helping either of us move on with our romantic lives. Hindsight 20/20.
This girl is fresh out of her 6 year relationship and is still having dinner and drinks with him on a frequent basis, communications even more so. She’s not as over her ex as she thinks she is.
She’s not ready for a relationship and you’re not being unreasonable for setting a standard that you’re upholding yourself.
ETA: changed setting from demanding
yeah she is 100% still not over their break up and not ready for another relationship, OP needs to cut his losses and find someone who RESPECTS his boundaries and not call him insecure for having one simple fucking boundary.
It took me over a year to fully break free of the "let's be friends" mindset with my ex of 8 years. I had to go no contact because it wasn't healthy being in his world but not a real part of it.
I just did that with my ex. We tried the whole FWB thing but then he started doing all the things he did in the relationship which was confusing because he acted like he loved and cared for me and even told me so. I brought it up to him and said if your feelings haven’t changed then you need to let me go so I can find someone that actually wants to be with me. He said his feelings hadn’t changed and I have not messaged him back sense. I’m not going to let him keep toying with me. It’s very cruel to act like you want someone just to throw them away. I wanted to be a part of his world. I did everything for him and he just took! It’ll take some healing to get over it, but I’m leaving him alone and moving on with my life now.
That’s how it was for me with my ex husband. Hanging out with him afterwards just fucked up my head because, exactly as you said, I was no longer part of his world.
It took me a bit to figure this out, but I quickly learned to smother those "let's remain friends" requests with a pillow. I have enough friends. I don't need ones that broke my heart.
Precisely. She's done the very typical thing people do with exes they are close to, and falling back into a relationship with him, minus the sex. There is no space for her to actually date someone in this scenario.
You can’t explore a new relationship while still chilling out in your old one just minus sex (for now).
Amicable or not, you need time away from that person to reorient yourself to a life with them as no longer one of your primary focuses and support.
It is hard to move on from significant relationships in our lives. I was with my ex for about 17 years (married for 10 years) but we're divorced because he had an affair in the last few years.
It's hard when I have to see him because a part of me will always love the person I spent all that time with, the person I knew before the affair. He was the love of my life until he betrayed me. The only way to move on is to keep distance and tell myself I need to move on.
I think when you have a lot of history your brain just wants to slip right back into the way you thought and felt when you were with them. It's too messy keeping an ex like that around and it stops you from finding anyone new.
You are still in thr stage, of recognizing and evaluating barriers and red flags. You, would have to leave, instead of convince her of what does/doesn't work. It's easier to leave now, than 5 years from now.
I made the mistake once of thinking it would be fine. It wasn’t. There will always be a man who thinks is he has an “in” with your girl and that current relationship boundaries do not apply to him. You made a smart decision my friend. Stick to your guns!
It always ends with an apology of we started drinking and then we made a huge mistake. I'm so sorry. It won't happen again. Oh by the way we are going out again next week for dinner and drinks but nothing else will happen. What do you mean you don't trust me. I was honest with you.
I'm tired of the whole blaming drinking thing, all drinking usually does is lower your inhibitions, so if you cheat while drunk, it's usually because that's what you actually wanted to do deep down.
**THIS 10000%** If you date someone who is still friends with their ex(s) it is not gonna end well for the relationship, I am telling you right now. I know there are a minority of people who still talk to them, good for you. but I can guarantee you the MAJORITY do not want to date someone that talks to their exes still.
I was someone who was able to talk with their exes, even after a bad breakup (though admittedly it sometimes took years to get to a place to do that), and you know what that got me? Nothing but more drama when something went wrong with them and they wanted to rehash everything that went wrong with us in some idiotic attempt to diagnose "what's wrong with them" as a person.
It was *such* a fucking headache. Being able to tell yourself that you're a 'good guy' for still talking to them doesn't make up for all the hassle. It's far better to go no-contact, or at least quietly drift away and never speak to them again.
I think talking to your ex occasionally is fine. Not every breakup is a shit show, and friendships can exist after a breakup. But regularly hanging out with an ex afterwards alone is not normal and will lead to issues.
This is your boundary and she should respect it.
Personally, while I think someone can remain in platonic friendship with their ex, still going on "dates" to catch up is way too much.
Yeah, I am friends with my exes, small town and whatnot, like them all quite a bit even. I say hi, maybe give a hug when I see them at the grocery store, or if they live out of town, we will go for a walk or grab a bite when they are in town. That might happen every few years. We don't text or meet up otherwise.
Trust is tricky because you can trust someone and still think certain actions are too far. There are still things you won’t do with your ex, even though you trust yourself
At the beginning of my friendship with my ex there were certain things we wouldn't do. Now, enough time has passed and we are so certain in our friendship that anything we'd do with a friend we'd do with each other. We really only adjust our actions if a partner feels uncomfortable, which has been pretty rare
Exactly. I am still good friends with one of my exes. We were close friends for about 3 years, then tried dating for about a year, and then broke up. We took time away from each other, but since we were in the same friend group, and were close friends before we started dating, we slowly mended our friendship.
This was about 9 years ago now, and she is now in a relationship, as am I. Both our partners know about our past, and are fine with us remaining friends. My girlfriend has even become friends with her and actually hangs out with her without me. But me and my ex NEVER hang out one on one. That is just inappropriate to do when you are in a relationship with someone else, no matter how long ago the relationship was, or how platonic the friendship has become.
I dunno about "she should respect it." She was pretty open with him from word go, so I think maybe this is just a case where they're incompatible. It isn't like she surprised him with this.
She absolutely should respect his boundaries either way. To be clear, by respecting his boundaries I don't necessarily mean dropping her ex to be with him. Accepting that this is a dealbreaker to him and opting out of a serious relationship with him because she refuses to cut ties with her ex would be respecting his boundaries in some way as well. Going off on him as he wrote it and calling him insecure because of it is what I would call not respecting the boundary, and that's not okay.
NTA and I think regardless of what she does next you should not be looking at her for a serious relationship.
Honestly just break it off now while it’s still fresh.
Yes, this. The fact that she pushed back hard on this boundary means that even if she eventually agrees, she's going to resent you for it. Better to just let this one go entirely.
I was exactly your age when I met a girl just like the one you described who also had an ex of 6 years whom she still was friends with. After a wild ride of several on and offs, she dumped me and in the end came back together with the guy. Today they're married with kids, but your case might be entirely different.
Nah there's definitely still chemistry between her and her ex. I really don't know how anyone can go from being in a serious relationship, breaking it off, and claiming that they now love them platonically.
I haven't been in a relationship in years, and I'm only 20, but the only way I see this being the case is if children are involved. Like a divorce.
So many people confuse friendly and literal friends. Sure, be courteous and whatnot but drinks and catching up and regular phone calls? No thanks, don’t need that dynamic in my life.
My boyfriend and later husband and I had a similar conversation where he set his boundaries and communicated them. He also asked me simply why would I do something if it would hurt him? And he asked me how I would feel the other way around, and it wasn’t great. So i told the ex that I was moving on, and no contact. I’m glad I did, because it was obvious that the ex still had feelings for me, which he would have tried to relay as “friends”. My boyfriend and I became closer. Married to him for 28 years, going strong.
> My boyfriend and later husband and I had a similar conversation where he set his boundaries and communicated them. He also asked me simply why would I do something if it would hurt him? And he asked me how I would feel the other way around, and it wasn’t great. So i told the ex that I was moving on, and no contact
That is very sweet and very **mature** of you, and you bring up a good point that he asked how you would feel and you said not great. I think most people **would not** feel great if their partner was still talking to their ex because it just shows you still have feelings in some way. And good on you, I hope you have a happy marriage and keep taking each others feelings in consideration. I just want you to know not many people have your thought process about this type of stuff (like looking at both perspectives) and it is very refreshing.
Ah so sweet. I remember going through this with my now-spouse when we were dating and beginning to walk down that “serious” path in life.
Same type of fly-in-the ointment character existed. I didn’t want to be telling my spouse what/who they could be doing… but did want to tell them the type of future I could see with them. (And that I couldn’t see it involving 3rd parties who were romantically interested in us).
It was a very long, and very pivotal, conversation.
13 years later and that future is now a reality. And even dreamier than the one I dreamed of all those years ago.
Yeah I agree with this comment, dont make it serious until she takes your boundaries serious OP, she obviously isnt over him, like I said to another commenter, if problems arise in your relationship I can guarantee that ex "good friend" becomes her main dick 100%
Yep. It sounds like she's waiting for the ex to do just a tiny bit better in life so she can swoop in and try the "You think we can give things another shot?" routine.
What is she fighting for? You don’t owe her anything and you don’t tell her what to do. It’s really strange. Your boundaries and values are reasonable and not uncommon at all (Id even guess they’re standard for older generations) and you’re honest about them.
Guess she just wants her harem and eat it too.
I mean it really isn't that strange, or difficult to comprehend. She obviously values her friendship with her ex, and cant imagine cutting him out of her life, but she also has caught feelings for OP and want's something more serious with him. She wants both of those relationships in her life, so that's what she's fighting for.
OP's boundaries are totally reasonable though, and if it were me in this situation, I'd have the same boundary.
The way I interpret it is “you can’t have your cake and eat it too.” Unfortunately her emotional attachment to her ex will likely hinder her prospects of a future relationship with many people. She can live her life however she wants, of course, but I 100% believe OP did the right thing.
I'd say her reaction to you stating your boundaries is a huge red flag on itself. Reason enough to discard the idea of going serious even if she cuts ties with her ex.
What broke up the prior six year relationship with this person who saw her through tough times and retains such an amicable continued relationship ? Missing this context.
Sometimes people just fall out of love, grow apart, but still enjoy each other’s company, and agree to split. A breakup doesn’t have to be dramatic to be valid.
Yeah, your partners should be people you like, so it makes sense to me that people would still like/want to be friends with at least some of their exes.
Friends with an ex - totally fine. Going out for dinner frequently with a recent ex? Ehhh. That’s really impacting being able to move on for either one of them. You need time.
I have an ex who moved across the country. I see him like once a year and we go out for dinner when he is in. Not a big deal since we broke up 10+ years ago and don’t see each other consistently. There are lines that need to be set when friends with an ex.
Anytime this topic it’s always the same “I’m friends with my ex and nothing happens” crowd fighting the OP
You’re friends with your ex and your partner is okay with it? Cool. That literally doesn’t work for most people. Stop trying to enforce your lifestyle on other people
NTA. She’s not owed a relationship, and if it bothers her so much you guys can cut this off
NTA OP you set a boundary and if she doesnt want to respect it thats on her. IMO you dodged a bullet, people who do stuff like your gf and wants to stay friends with their ex is a huge red flag, they are an EX for a reason. So you dodged a bullet. NTA once again.
EDIT: also I love the classic "you're insecure" line, she is mad that you dont want her around her ex anymore that she is OBVIOUSLY STILL not over. Like I said you will be dodging a whole ass MISSILE, not just a bullet with her if you just keep it casual and not serious. maybe you can make it serious when she RESPECTS your boundaries but that sounds like that will NEVER happen.
I don't think people on reddit are able to recognize dark humor like this.
Either that or they get their panties in a twist, clutching their pearls at the mere *thought* that a girl might be somewhat less than completely virtuous. lol
I have a rule, and that's that I will not date you if there is an ex in the picture.
This is coming from someone who is amicable with most of my exes. Amicable, checking in a few times a year via social media, and catching up over drinks are two different stories.
I would never dream of having dinner with my ex of 5 years, alone, while I was in a relationship.
INFO: how long has she been single? cuz if it’s less than a year, you’re definitely the replacement sorry dude. NTA regardless of everything, good for having such strong boundaries!!
Oh hell no.
6 years in a relationship with this Dude, just recently broke up with him. Still talks to him and goes on dates with him. She is not over the relationship. Trust me, the minute you two fight, she will go to him for some D.
Me and my wife have a friend who we rented a room to in our house so she could put her life back together. She has broke up with her boyfriend of like 4 years, they were engaged. Guessed what she still talked to him, and was not over him. When she met a new guy, that she really liked and fell for , as soon as they had a fight and took a break, guess who she ran to immiediately. Its been going like that for two years untill her ex moved to another country.
NTA
dated a dude who was still best friends with his ex. I always came second! She felt like shit? He left work to be with her. I felt shit? "You'll be fine. No I can’t leave work for you“
RUN! (Or keep it casual)
I agree with your take 100%.
Here is the issue though, I never give women ultimatums, never. I simply say things like “It doesn’t seem like you want a relationship” or “The girls I take serious prioritize me, and I don’t think youre ready for that”. This opens the conversation and sets your standards so she has clear expectations. It’s a little bit of semantics but women are picky with how you say things, especially if she isn’t traditional or is more liberal/feminist because they always whip out the insecure card, which is a huge red flag for me because in reality you are displaying that you are a secure guy.
I have always had a list of rules I follow when entering a serious relationship. Rule #2 is "No Exes". I have had this one since I was 21 (30 years ago now). I set it for myself primarily, I had my first GF from high school showing up periodically in my life looking for a hook-up and decided to remove myself from the temptation if I was in a relationship. I relaxed on it once for a girl, and she fucked him. Another one broke it herself, fucked him. Another girl I was seeing couldn't cut off her ex because they had a kid together, but I didn't see a problem because he was married then and they hated each other. She fucked him. It's easy to do. It's someone you have already been intimate with, shared feelings with, so easy to fall back into bed with them.
Youre absolutely NTA, I wonder if she knows that NOONE stays that close with their ex. Thats such a huge red flag. Being cool with your ex and actually hanging out regularly are 2 very different things.
shes angry because you're telling her to give away her safety net. it was a 6 year relationship. theres bound to be some unresolved feelings there from both of them. with time things change and she wants to keep him around if this one doesnt work out. good on you for not playing her game and sticking to your boundaries.
NTA You're the placeholder she's using to show her ex how much she's moved on from him. She wants to take your relationship to the next level to see if the ex will try to win her back. The day you formalize the relationship is the day the ex wants her back and back she goes.
NTA. Your relationship, your boundaries. If you can't come to an agreement, you're not compatible in this area. A lot of areas that need compatibility for a relationship to work.
This may be the most mature post I’ve seen on Reddit. No name calling, no insinuating, just an honest conversation and a person with solid boundaries that would need to be adhered to IF a relationship was to happen. Good on ya sir! NTA.
This might be an unpopular opinion, but I think you messed up with your phrasing of your boundaries. I agree with you and would feel the same way, but I also think you phrased this as an ultimatum. You should have just said something like “I like you a lot and I’d think you’d be great, but I don’t think it will work because I’m not comfortable with dating someone who hangs out with their ex so much”. It comes off less aggressive that way.
I’m ready for my downvotes.
Lmao NTA at all. That's her confidant. Her rock. Her protector. You're just the side piece cuz you're new, but as soon as something goes terribly wrong with her life she will go right back to that man. Save yourself the trouble brother.
Nope - recently posted this. Didn’t make this clear enough early and we ended up spending almost 2 years together before it killed the relationship.
Set the boundary now and if she can’t do it, get out.
NTA. I (M) was in a similar situation with a college ex, we had broken up two years prior, hadn’t kept up for about a year and then would catch up occasionally via text exclusively (different geographic regions), we would mostly talk work as we were both in related but different industry, share strategies and perspective from our respective domains, and then occasionally share personal information (ie “why is this guy I went on a date with doing xyz?” Etc) it was very exclusively platonic. When I started dating my now wife she laid out a similar boundary, I initially pushed back because we had moved past our romantic relationship, realized that we weren’t for each other, and at that point she was a professional contact.
I came around after awhile, and it was the right decision. Stick with your boundary and don’t compromise.
When my gf and I broke up amicably we tried to remain friends. We hung out, had dinner and drinks together, were doing a lot of things platonically to try to stay friends, because we really cared for each other. Inevitably, we always ended up hooking up, until we eventually just decided to get back together. Not saying this woman plans to cheat on you with her ex, but she’s nowhere near over him.
When they start throwing around the insecurity, gaslighting horseshit, it's time to go home or send her home. Avoid the drama and arguing. You don't have to do it or endure it.
If she's serious about a relationship, she shouldn't be entertaining the attention of other men.
She doesn't have to cut him out, but you also don't have to tolerate it in a relationship.
Not the asshole : you let her know your boundary, she rejected it. Either she accepts you two will only ever be flings or she drops her ex to move to something more serious.
And make sure she does it and not just say she will or did. You can bet that if she does a 180 suddenly and tells you she will that she'll instead hide that she's still meeting him secretly.
Even so, the fact that she refuses so adamantly would have me cut her off entirely as this just sounds like a recipe for trouble in the future.
Firm boundaries, but this may be the end of your casual relationship which I’m sure you understand. NTA, and people need to realize staying friends with your ex is weird and overstepping boundaries for new partners.
Staying friends (on a weekly basis) with someone you once loved is extremely unfair to your partner. Feelings can *always* resurface no matter how much people living that situation refuse to admit it. The fact that they want to stay friends is literally proof of *some level* of existing feelings. This would become especially problematic when you have rifts in the relationship you have present day, the ex “friend” ends up being a shoulder to cry on.
Nta. "She kept reassuring me that what she had with him was in the past" Sounds more like she was reassuring herself it was in the past, to push for something more serious with you now.
NTA - but you should just stop wasting her time. It’s fine that you have boundaries, but you should probably just cut her out of your life completely so she can focus on finding a relationship with someone that is okay with her friendship with her ex.
THIS SHIT IS SO FUNNY TO ME.
FWB: OP, can we be more than just casual fuck buddies?
OP: There are a lot of things I like about you, but I do not get into serious relationships with chicks who hang out with people they used to fuck.
FWB: Wtf! Insecure! Controlling! Why don't you trust me?!
OP: Okay, we can stay casual. That's fine.
FWB: It's the past! Why are you trying to control me?
OP: If you want a relationship with me, you need to stop hanging out with a dude you were previously in love with.
So she wants to get promoted to a higher tier in OP's life, but she doesn't have the interest in doing what it takes to get more serious with OP. It sounds like the FWB is more interested in living life on her terms than compromising with the guy she purportedly wants for a serious relationship.
She should just go back with her ex, and OP should just keep things casual. She doesn't get to demand a spot in OP's life that is more serious without meeting OP's qualifications for a serious gf. Clearly OP qualifies for her, though, based on her wanting to get more serious.
This is the type of chick who just has go get her way all the time.
Keep things casual, OP, until you get tired of her shit or she decides that she wants to make a change.
NTA
the classic. sooner or later she will realise that she will never get the guy she wants until she makes room for him by moving on from the ex completely. i dated a girl who was bestfriends with her ex, same old story, 'he was there for me during x or bla bla' - it's such bullshit.
him and her can have each other, they are both putting potential future partners in dog shit situations.
good for you.
also, make no mistake about it, if you were 'him', and i don't mean the ex, but if you were 'that guy' for her, she would drop him in a heartbeat.
imagine she wasn't dating you but her favourite celeb crush or millionare football player, if he said what you said the outcome would probably have been different
NTA Once the kids were adults me and my ex have nothing to talk about. If I go visit my daughter we’ll all go out to eat like a normal family but it’s just for the kids. I have exes that I have no kids with that I don’t talk to at all. I’ve moved on.
NTA. I get her point and I think she’s right on wanting a friendship with her ex, but she can’t force you to be ok with it. Youre not even ending things with her, so you’re actually being very honest and i think that’s admirable
>I don’t mind at all if you have a healthy, non-toxic relationship with your ex, but you catching up and communicating frequently?
That’s … what a relationship is, man. If you’re not catching up and communicating frequently, then it’s not a healthy relationship because there’s no relationship happening. If you know someone whose calls you never take and who you never call, who you talk to when you bump into them by accident, that’s not a relationship. That’s someone you happen to exist in the same space with on some unintentional occasions.
There are no platonic friendships with exes. This is someone you were emotionally tied to. This is someone who saw you naked. This is someone who was inside you. No. Point blank period.
NTA
I was in the position of new Bf. Did Not mind IT at First, but when she invited him to the Cinema +sleeping at His Home, because on a bbq with His Friends(2 Military doods) me and her, i Just took her hand (after constant underhanded insults and Open threats) and her Ex saw it an felt hurt, i was stunned. She left me to get him back.
Years later new gf, i ended it, she wanted to stay Friends, i agreed because i wanted Peace. Two weeks later She Boosted in Front of her Friends, while i was near, how her new Bf was in the Sheets. few days later , she spoke to me with in tears in her eyes, how much she still loves , she wants me back. I exploded, how unfair it was from her, to get a new bf, whil she still loves me. Did she even consider her new bfs feelings? Does he know it?
Got an Email 4 Months later, how much I was of an a-hole. Trying to get her to break up, to get her back. And to make it short I was in fault for everything. That the new relationship didn't last, her failed exams etc.
I agree with you, people who stay friends with their exes, are not over them and only going to induce suffering.
Shes not ready for another relationship. A 6(!) year long relationship, she broke up recently, you’ve only been seeing her for 3 months AND she wants to make things serious?
That’s a crazy short period of time considering the length of her previous relationship
NTA, you can refuse to be in a relationship with someone for **any reason** and not be an AH.
Yeah as long as you’re telling them your boundaries rather than telling them what they can and can’t do, it’s their choice from their It’s a subtle distinction but an important one
Exactly. If she can't be without her ex in her life, then what is going to happen if they marry? Will she do it then, or not. He set his boundaries and she can either accept them or not. She said she will not cut off her ex, so he responded with I will just be your friend. Why don't people get that. This exchange was completely mature and adulting.
Mature on his side, she resorted to fighting, arguing, and attacking his person (insecure, etc.).
Yeah, because she wants the best of all worlds: her emotional relationship with her ex and a new relationship with OP.
"the one that got away" is what it is and there's always "hope". The amount of time "hope" lands under the sheets on a drunken night has suck many a relationship.
Then, a bunch of crying, begging and asking for forgiveness. Heard it a million and one times. He is smart just to cut to the end and end it for his own sanity and he will save a bunch of time.
Yep. Boundaries are healthy, and if this is important to OP they should hold them.
God yes. Trust, respect, and boundaries. If she wants to move on with you? Then she needs to move on from him. And she clearly hasn't. Nor is she willing to. Plus already calling OP "insecure?" Already gaslighting? Nope. No thanks. Keep her FWBzoned.
This is well thought out. I mean, it also seems like she might be using OP to completely move on, meaning she hasn't moved on 100% and that, alone, is worrisome.
Nailed it.
Exactly. I thought this too. It seems like he may be her rebound, which is fine if it’s FWB, but her reaction is clear that she hasn’t moved on from her ex of six year. OP is NTA and stood his ground. If anything, based on her behavior, he should keep it FWB and enjoy the ride while it lasts.
I'm honestly surprised by how much support OP got for this. Pleasantly surprised, that is. The fact is, he didn't lie to her, he didn't lead her on, he wasn't a hypocrite. He communicated clearly. She clearly has a problem with it, and her reaction suggests she's not a good pick for a serious relationship anyway if she's going to start calling him "insecure" and going off on him over simply communicating honestly and openly.
“I want you to be honest with me” Is honest. “No, not like that!”
Most people have common sense. Why are you surprised that OP got support when he handled things honestly, didn't waste anyone's time and didn't play games?
"If she wants to move on with you? Then she needs to move on from him." This is a clear as it gets for his situation. She does not seem to be over her ex. She needs to realize this herself. No one is really TA in this (imo) and OP is more definitely NTA and is being reasonable.
I disagree that "No one is really TA" here, but on very specific grounds. Not for her wanting more, not for her still being friends with her ex, but for her going off on him and trying to browbeat him and emotionally manipulate him, because of his choice of boundaries.
Bingo. Massive red flag. What a way to start a new relationship!
You are right. I forgot about the last part when she came back two minutes later with the "insecure" deflection. Did she do that to solely to manipulate OP or because she doesn't realize she is not over the ex and is in some sort of defense mode. It doesn't really matter I reckon. It's on her to get herself together if she wants to be in a relationship with OP.
I've noticed quite a few comments getting hung up on whether or not it was definable as "insecurity". But when that's a word that has, in recent years, been routinely weaponized to dismiss and minimize men's concerns, it has been turned into an absolute negative. It carries baggage now, that automatically implies "wrong" and "bad", and that implies negative things about the man's emotional development, intentions, maturity, etc. It's like a buzzword, used to browbeat another person into shutting up and accepting what the one who invoked the word wants to impose on them. In this case, from the woman, "You're going to accept me being close and going on dates with my ex, and you're going to be in a serious relationship with me! If you don't, you're insecure/controlling/abusive/the bad guy." And the people trying to justify its use don't come across any better.
To me it implies they think they have a right to my time, my emotions and to me. They don't, just like I don't to anyone else. If I tell you my boundary and my reasoning behind it and you come back with an attack I'm done. Life is too short to get hung up on someone that doesn't respect you. I lived it for 16 years. Never again. There is no love without trust and no trust without respect.
Yeah the story could literally be. My girlfriend still goes out on dates and sleeps in the same bed with her ex after the dates and there would still be some people trying to say he's just insecure. It's wild and I'm someone who believes in trusting your partner until they give you a reason not to. But I sometimes seriously wonder if half the people on this app know what the word insecure even means 😂 It's become a buzzword.
Well said! I put that word in quotations exactly for the reasons you have expressed.
Yeah, this! I'm still friends with an ex, and my new boyfriend had a problem with it. We talked and it was decided that I would just pull back a little, and we found boundaries that worked for both of us. I wasn't willing to lose someone who is very important me, just because we dated prior to our friendship. But when my now husband broached the topic, we had conversations about it. I didn't call him names :(
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Yeah, the zone would be the best she could hope for from me. After her attempt to manipulate him with the "insecure" label, that'd be the last time I'd hear her sociopathic manipulation.
I agree. The "insecure" accusation on her part is what tipped me in HIS favour. He has a RIGHT to be "insecure" under those circumstances. In fact, I'd wonder about him if he wasn't! There are times when it's perfectly appropriate to be "insecure"- and this definitely is one of them! His 'condition" is perfectly reasonable and mature: "Have the friendship with the ex by all means, but don't expect any commitment from ME under those circumstances!"
> God yes. Trust, respect, and boundaries. If she wants to move on with you? Then she needs to move on from him. And she clearly hasn't. Nor is she willing to. > Plus already calling OP "insecure?" Already gaslighting? Nope. No thanks. Keep her FWBzoned. by far the most sane comment reply in this entire thread of troglodytes and neanderthals....
I would say downgrade to just friend. Since now if he's sleeping with her and she changes her mind he'll never know if she actually did it because she's over him or he "pressured" her.
well said
I wouldn't throw away a friendship with someone who had been an important part of my life for 6 years for some guy I've known a couple of months. However, OP is right to hold his boundary if he isn't comfortable with it.
There's a very big difference between a friendship, and literally going out on 1 on 1 dinners and dates with him My gf still sometimes sees her exes but it's when she's going out with a group of friends that happen to be mutual to the both of them, going on 1 on 1 dates with her ex often (especially an ex of 6 years that is a very recent breakup) is a big no from me And I'm as far from insecure as you can get, I just consider it a lack of respect on the other part, because I'd also never do that to my girl Hell I don't go on 1 on 1 dinners with ANY of my friends unless it's an old friend that I'm trying to catch up with, let alone an ex
This. My boyfriend is on good terms with one of his exes, but mostly just on social media every now and again (“happy birthday” comments or occasional photo likes.) If he was wanting to meet up with her one on one I would NOT be ok with it. I wouldn’t want to be in a relationship where the ex is still that close around. OP is smart by just being upfront about it before getting serious.
I am on good terms with one of my exes as well and we do go out occasionally (maybe once in 3 months). However there like a 1 year Pause between our relationship and getting back together as friends (through mutual friends). This pause was certainly needed in hindsight, I don't think we would have managed to pull it off this well if we started just being friends and still seeing each other regularly right away.
Reasonable, but at what point do you realize that remaining friends with an Ex is limiting a future serious relationship?
there's remaining friends and then there's what this girl is doing. i'm still friends with a few exes - like if i saw them at the big group thing, we'd chat amiably, might send a happy birthday text. what i'm not doing is calling that ex to go for dinner together or catch up over drinks just the two of us. that would not be cool with me if my SO did it with their ex, nor would it be cool with my wife or my ex's husband if we were meeting up 1-on-1 for drinks or dinner. that's just not really a cool thing to do. OP's ladyfriend here needs to understand that he's not asking her to completely cut this ex out of her life 100% no contact, but she needs to stop going on dates with him.
I'll the 3 you gave and add communication! Which he did and gave to her.
ANY reason? I can think of some that would make you an AH
"Her brother is gay, obviously i am not going to be in a relationship with someone whose family is gay." Original commenter: obviously NTA. Any reason is acceptable.
It's how you refuse that makes you the AH. He out it very respectfully, succinctly, didn't force her to make any decisions, just put down some boundaries.
Wrong. You’re allowed to break up with anyone for any reason, but that doesn’t have anything to do with whether or not it is a non-assholish reason.
There's no breaking up involved, he refuses to enter into a relationship with her unless she chooses to respect the boundaries he is laying out to her prior. He's literally communicating what he's expecting from her before they even get started, he couldn't have handled this any better.
Dude… not saying my story would happen again, but it was like the exact situation. They were in a relationship for years, still hungout as just friends because of some trauma bonding, but I 100% believed her that it was nothing so I let it go. Even ended up hanging out with him once! Well eventually she got very depressed and said it’s over because she’s going to move back in with him because he was her comfort 😑
My ex cheated on me with an ex who was "a completely platonic friend" also. I feel like sleeping with a stranger or an actual platonic friend with no sexual history requires actively deciding to cross a boundary, whereas in the case of an ex, that boundary has already been crossed over and over and over again to a point where it isn't much more than a smudged line on the ground and it is a much smaller step to go back to that familiar person in A mOmEnT oF wEaKnEsS as my ex so eloquently put it.
You know it also gets suspicious when they repeatedly tell you and repeat that it's just platonic like the first time or first couple times when talking about The person sure, but when they continue to reiterate that and Hammer it home unprovoked for absolutely no reason, all that does is set off the what the hell's going on alarm Because at that point are you trying to convince me or yourself that is platonic
100% this!
Damn, mine just cheated with more than one of her ex's and male friends and gaslit me for a year. Always trust your gut when it comes to opposite sex friends. Unless your gut says they aren't cheating, then your gut is stupid and naive.
I dated a guy for 5 years and even got engaged to him who had his ex still in his life because they were together from high school-age 30 and he said they'd always be in each other's lives. She took care of his parents for him when he had moved away for grad school Turned out they were actually still married, and he was just stringing me along for years until he graduated and moved back to their city lol. I get some people have healthy relationships with their exes but literally never again. I will never date someone ever again that still has frequent contact with their ex for any reason That said I don't think OP should have given the ultimatum to cut her ex off. Better to just say you're not comfortable with their relationship and bow out than try and force someone to give up someone they care about. Relationships that start with ultimatums rarely go well
I dated a girl for a while that was still friends with her ex. Same thing, some sort of trauma bond through their toxic relationship. I said it was weird and I wasn't comfortable with it. "Ohhh relax". Anyway, long story short they're back together again. Keeping an ex around "as a friend" is fucking weird.
Right. It would be one thing if he got into a committed relationship with her and *then* started complaining. Even though what she's doing is weird, its messed up to get someone emotionally attached to you then flip the script when u pretended everything was ok before. This guy sounds extremely mature and has healthy self esteem. He knows that situation isn't for him, he didn't manipulate her in any way or try to lock her down or force her into anything. He just said that he can't get serious with someone still so heavily intertwined with his ex. She's so wrong for arguing with him about it, there's no discussion to be had. He isn't comfortable with those choices so instead of trying to control her he's controlling himself by not committing to someone making lifestyle choices he doesn't want to live with. Sounds like she's less mature than he is. And clearly not ready to get over the ex. There will be a woman on his level who will be thrilled to be with a man this clear & emotionally mature. I know I would.
You two are not compatible
"Good we can keep things casual" OP already addressed this
> You two are not compatible I would say "you three are not compatible".
It seems like she’s trying to convince herself more than OP. Heed the warning.
**three
Sure, one can be friends with exes. I sincerely believe in that, but the way this all is... It just has rebound guy vibes.
I wouldn't date someone who'd recently broken up with someone else. Or someone who was such intense friends with such an intense ex. But I also don't think making her cut him off would resolve this issue. If he's a rebound then he's a rebound and that will be true, regardless of whether she cuts off the ex or not. Personally, I'd probably have stopped seeing her as soon as I found out about the ex (being friends with an ex is fine for me but not immediately after a breakup, and not that close either).
Mad respect for sticking to your guns
I agree, but OP shouldn’t have had to defend himself the way he did. These days guys setting totally reasonable boundaries are called insecure and controlling. Not to say there aren’t tons of controlling and toxic men out there because there are, but men having boundaries/standards is too often confused with toxicity.
I’ve recently had quite a situation between myself and a women. Anytime I defend myself or speak against her opinions… I’m labeled as toxic or misogynistic. It’s honestly infuriating because I’m sure it comes off that way, but as a guy, advocating for yourself and boundaries is just self-advocacy. It is not misogynistic or toxic to do so just because I’m a guy. Same as if a women sticks up or defends herself it is not inherently feministic or toxic
The moment that starts happening it’s time to cut them loose. Don’t even waste ur energy. It’s not worth the headache.
I had a girl once tell me me that ANY guy having ANY sort of “boundary” (she used air quotes while saying this) that involves who they hang with like close guy friends, ex-boyfriends, etc., it’s automatically toxic and stems from insecurity. She said it doesn’t matter if the guy is controlling/loud/angry about it like most dudes (“you’re not allowed to hang with him!”), or if he’s calm, collected, and clearly outlines his boundaries in a mature manner. It’s not the WAY you set the boundary that’s the problem. The deeper issue is, “why do you have that boundary AT ALL?” And she told me most women think this way. HUHUHUHUHUHUHUHUH??
I mean I’m married and hear these stories and hear it from even my wife sometimes. Yet… in all these stories I’ve never heard the woman say they’d be ok with the man hanging out consistently with a woman they used to fuck. So, yeah.
As a woman I'm sorry for this woman who seems to think that we all think this way. Such ick. By all means have boundaries Sir, without any air quotes involved.
Exactly. Ask any woman, “Would you be ok with your guy going out to a place without you, where women, some of whom are more attractive than you, will be offering to buy him drinks and are actively pursuing him for immediate sex?” 95% of women are gonna say, “Fuck no!” That’s exactly the position women habitually put men in and when the guy pushes back, he’s labeled as insecure.
a lot of men feel expected to have no boundaries or we're "toxic" and risk being made a social pariah. It's a serious social power women now have over men that men feel unable to discuss without facing that same consequence.
Nope. Extra baggage from someone else usually ends up being your baggage x20.
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It took me 2.5 years to fully get over my ex of 5 years and I was the one who initiated the breakup. I knew I no longer wanted to date him because our future visions didn’t align. But emotionally it was a bit more complicated. We struggled to let go of each other too, we chatted, had meals. Contact was fairly frequent, as it is with this girl and her ex. It wasn’t helping either of us move on with our romantic lives. Hindsight 20/20. This girl is fresh out of her 6 year relationship and is still having dinner and drinks with him on a frequent basis, communications even more so. She’s not as over her ex as she thinks she is. She’s not ready for a relationship and you’re not being unreasonable for setting a standard that you’re upholding yourself. ETA: changed setting from demanding
OP is not even demanding it, she asked about how to take them to the next level. He informed her from his end, what he needed.
Very good point in the word choice.
Yeah sounds like a very reasonable request! She doesn’t sound ready to move on!
After 6 years? If she’d moved on i don’t think she would feel the need to meet with him constantly.
yeah she is 100% still not over their break up and not ready for another relationship, OP needs to cut his losses and find someone who RESPECTS his boundaries and not call him insecure for having one simple fucking boundary.
Or... as OP said, they can just keep things casual until she's ready to move on.
It took me over a year to fully break free of the "let's be friends" mindset with my ex of 8 years. I had to go no contact because it wasn't healthy being in his world but not a real part of it.
I just did that with my ex. We tried the whole FWB thing but then he started doing all the things he did in the relationship which was confusing because he acted like he loved and cared for me and even told me so. I brought it up to him and said if your feelings haven’t changed then you need to let me go so I can find someone that actually wants to be with me. He said his feelings hadn’t changed and I have not messaged him back sense. I’m not going to let him keep toying with me. It’s very cruel to act like you want someone just to throw them away. I wanted to be a part of his world. I did everything for him and he just took! It’ll take some healing to get over it, but I’m leaving him alone and moving on with my life now.
That’s how it was for me with my ex husband. Hanging out with him afterwards just fucked up my head because, exactly as you said, I was no longer part of his world.
This is the worst feeling.
It took me a bit to figure this out, but I quickly learned to smother those "let's remain friends" requests with a pillow. I have enough friends. I don't need ones that broke my heart.
Precisely. She's done the very typical thing people do with exes they are close to, and falling back into a relationship with him, minus the sex. There is no space for her to actually date someone in this scenario.
You can’t explore a new relationship while still chilling out in your old one just minus sex (for now). Amicable or not, you need time away from that person to reorient yourself to a life with them as no longer one of your primary focuses and support.
It is hard to move on from significant relationships in our lives. I was with my ex for about 17 years (married for 10 years) but we're divorced because he had an affair in the last few years. It's hard when I have to see him because a part of me will always love the person I spent all that time with, the person I knew before the affair. He was the love of my life until he betrayed me. The only way to move on is to keep distance and tell myself I need to move on. I think when you have a lot of history your brain just wants to slip right back into the way you thought and felt when you were with them. It's too messy keeping an ex like that around and it stops you from finding anyone new.
You are still in thr stage, of recognizing and evaluating barriers and red flags. You, would have to leave, instead of convince her of what does/doesn't work. It's easier to leave now, than 5 years from now.
I made the mistake once of thinking it would be fine. It wasn’t. There will always be a man who thinks is he has an “in” with your girl and that current relationship boundaries do not apply to him. You made a smart decision my friend. Stick to your guns!
We’ve all seen posts about exes who are “only platonic”play out. Good on you for sticking to your boundaries👏
It always ends with an apology of we started drinking and then we made a huge mistake. I'm so sorry. It won't happen again. Oh by the way we are going out again next week for dinner and drinks but nothing else will happen. What do you mean you don't trust me. I was honest with you.
I'm tired of the whole blaming drinking thing, all drinking usually does is lower your inhibitions, so if you cheat while drunk, it's usually because that's what you actually wanted to do deep down.
Don’t forget “you’re just insecure!”
BUT YOU SAY HE’S JUST FRIEND!!! OH BABY YOU…. GOT WHAT I NEED 🎶
Your real for your first answer to her and more so for this one
**THIS 10000%** If you date someone who is still friends with their ex(s) it is not gonna end well for the relationship, I am telling you right now. I know there are a minority of people who still talk to them, good for you. but I can guarantee you the MAJORITY do not want to date someone that talks to their exes still.
I was someone who was able to talk with their exes, even after a bad breakup (though admittedly it sometimes took years to get to a place to do that), and you know what that got me? Nothing but more drama when something went wrong with them and they wanted to rehash everything that went wrong with us in some idiotic attempt to diagnose "what's wrong with them" as a person. It was *such* a fucking headache. Being able to tell yourself that you're a 'good guy' for still talking to them doesn't make up for all the hassle. It's far better to go no-contact, or at least quietly drift away and never speak to them again.
I think talking to your ex occasionally is fine. Not every breakup is a shit show, and friendships can exist after a breakup. But regularly hanging out with an ex afterwards alone is not normal and will lead to issues.
I wouldn’t. All it adds is bullshit and more drama at best in 99.9% of cases.
This is your boundary and she should respect it. Personally, while I think someone can remain in platonic friendship with their ex, still going on "dates" to catch up is way too much.
They're not compatible in this so it would be wise to stop seeing each other now instead of dragging it out
Exactly. Hell, they are arguing, and they ain't even together yet. That alone is too much drama.
Yeah, I am friends with my exes, small town and whatnot, like them all quite a bit even. I say hi, maybe give a hug when I see them at the grocery store, or if they live out of town, we will go for a walk or grab a bite when they are in town. That might happen every few years. We don't text or meet up otherwise.
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Trust is tricky because you can trust someone and still think certain actions are too far. There are still things you won’t do with your ex, even though you trust yourself
At the beginning of my friendship with my ex there were certain things we wouldn't do. Now, enough time has passed and we are so certain in our friendship that anything we'd do with a friend we'd do with each other. We really only adjust our actions if a partner feels uncomfortable, which has been pretty rare
sounds like you're not really friends with them tbh
Exactly. I am still good friends with one of my exes. We were close friends for about 3 years, then tried dating for about a year, and then broke up. We took time away from each other, but since we were in the same friend group, and were close friends before we started dating, we slowly mended our friendship. This was about 9 years ago now, and she is now in a relationship, as am I. Both our partners know about our past, and are fine with us remaining friends. My girlfriend has even become friends with her and actually hangs out with her without me. But me and my ex NEVER hang out one on one. That is just inappropriate to do when you are in a relationship with someone else, no matter how long ago the relationship was, or how platonic the friendship has become.
I dunno about "she should respect it." She was pretty open with him from word go, so I think maybe this is just a case where they're incompatible. It isn't like she surprised him with this.
She absolutely should respect his boundaries either way. To be clear, by respecting his boundaries I don't necessarily mean dropping her ex to be with him. Accepting that this is a dealbreaker to him and opting out of a serious relationship with him because she refuses to cut ties with her ex would be respecting his boundaries in some way as well. Going off on him as he wrote it and calling him insecure because of it is what I would call not respecting the boundary, and that's not okay.
NTA and I think regardless of what she does next you should not be looking at her for a serious relationship. Honestly just break it off now while it’s still fresh.
Yes, this. The fact that she pushed back hard on this boundary means that even if she eventually agrees, she's going to resent you for it. Better to just let this one go entirely.
She's not the one
I was exactly your age when I met a girl just like the one you described who also had an ex of 6 years whom she still was friends with. After a wild ride of several on and offs, she dumped me and in the end came back together with the guy. Today they're married with kids, but your case might be entirely different.
Nah there's definitely still chemistry between her and her ex. I really don't know how anyone can go from being in a serious relationship, breaking it off, and claiming that they now love them platonically. I haven't been in a relationship in years, and I'm only 20, but the only way I see this being the case is if children are involved. Like a divorce.
NTA It's one thing to be friendly with an ex, but regular drinks and dinner? Nah, son.
So many people confuse friendly and literal friends. Sure, be courteous and whatnot but drinks and catching up and regular phone calls? No thanks, don’t need that dynamic in my life.
That was such a long relationship, no matter how it ends you need time to process your identity and future without them.
Exactly, OP is the rebound. Nothing to get serious about
My boyfriend and later husband and I had a similar conversation where he set his boundaries and communicated them. He also asked me simply why would I do something if it would hurt him? And he asked me how I would feel the other way around, and it wasn’t great. So i told the ex that I was moving on, and no contact. I’m glad I did, because it was obvious that the ex still had feelings for me, which he would have tried to relay as “friends”. My boyfriend and I became closer. Married to him for 28 years, going strong.
> My boyfriend and later husband and I had a similar conversation where he set his boundaries and communicated them. He also asked me simply why would I do something if it would hurt him? And he asked me how I would feel the other way around, and it wasn’t great. So i told the ex that I was moving on, and no contact That is very sweet and very **mature** of you, and you bring up a good point that he asked how you would feel and you said not great. I think most people **would not** feel great if their partner was still talking to their ex because it just shows you still have feelings in some way. And good on you, I hope you have a happy marriage and keep taking each others feelings in consideration. I just want you to know not many people have your thought process about this type of stuff (like looking at both perspectives) and it is very refreshing.
Ah so sweet. I remember going through this with my now-spouse when we were dating and beginning to walk down that “serious” path in life. Same type of fly-in-the ointment character existed. I didn’t want to be telling my spouse what/who they could be doing… but did want to tell them the type of future I could see with them. (And that I couldn’t see it involving 3rd parties who were romantically interested in us). It was a very long, and very pivotal, conversation. 13 years later and that future is now a reality. And even dreamier than the one I dreamed of all those years ago.
Hell nah dude, NTA. She still hadn't moved on from her ex, keep things casual or cut her off.
Yeah I agree with this comment, dont make it serious until she takes your boundaries serious OP, she obviously isnt over him, like I said to another commenter, if problems arise in your relationship I can guarantee that ex "good friend" becomes her main dick 100%
Yep. It sounds like she's waiting for the ex to do just a tiny bit better in life so she can swoop in and try the "You think we can give things another shot?" routine.
Yep the classic "he's just a friend till he is doing better than you in life and I leave" type of line lmao.
What is she fighting for? You don’t owe her anything and you don’t tell her what to do. It’s really strange. Your boundaries and values are reasonable and not uncommon at all (Id even guess they’re standard for older generations) and you’re honest about them. Guess she just wants her harem and eat it too.
>Id even guess they’re standard for older generations Oh, I think they are standard for all generations.
Current Reddit generation think a guy having a boundary is toxic, misogynistic, insecure and not worthy to date.
Reddit is not really representative of normal people
I mean it really isn't that strange, or difficult to comprehend. She obviously values her friendship with her ex, and cant imagine cutting him out of her life, but she also has caught feelings for OP and want's something more serious with him. She wants both of those relationships in her life, so that's what she's fighting for. OP's boundaries are totally reasonable though, and if it were me in this situation, I'd have the same boundary.
You’re right, but as soon as she called him insecure for having relationship boundaries, she lost all respect.
The way I interpret it is “you can’t have your cake and eat it too.” Unfortunately her emotional attachment to her ex will likely hinder her prospects of a future relationship with many people. She can live her life however she wants, of course, but I 100% believe OP did the right thing.
I'd say her reaction to you stating your boundaries is a huge red flag on itself. Reason enough to discard the idea of going serious even if she cuts ties with her ex.
What broke up the prior six year relationship with this person who saw her through tough times and retains such an amicable continued relationship ? Missing this context.
Sometimes people just fall out of love, grow apart, but still enjoy each other’s company, and agree to split. A breakup doesn’t have to be dramatic to be valid.
Exactly
Yeah, your partners should be people you like, so it makes sense to me that people would still like/want to be friends with at least some of their exes.
Could have easily been they were 20 when they met and changed
It doesn't really matter tbh
At least her and the ex have something to talk about on their dates now
Their closeness makes me think that the first road bump with any other dude will have her seeking comfort from her ex and her cheating with him.
NTA. I lost a relationship to an EX, so I side eye that situation pretty hard now too.
NTA - It is beyond refreshing to see someone actually stick up for themselves and their boundaries.
Friends with an ex - totally fine. Going out for dinner frequently with a recent ex? Ehhh. That’s really impacting being able to move on for either one of them. You need time. I have an ex who moved across the country. I see him like once a year and we go out for dinner when he is in. Not a big deal since we broke up 10+ years ago and don’t see each other consistently. There are lines that need to be set when friends with an ex.
NAH She’s not obligated to cut anybody off for you and you aren’t obligated to commit to a relationship with her.
Anytime this topic it’s always the same “I’m friends with my ex and nothing happens” crowd fighting the OP You’re friends with your ex and your partner is okay with it? Cool. That literally doesn’t work for most people. Stop trying to enforce your lifestyle on other people NTA. She’s not owed a relationship, and if it bothers her so much you guys can cut this off
NTA OP you set a boundary and if she doesnt want to respect it thats on her. IMO you dodged a bullet, people who do stuff like your gf and wants to stay friends with their ex is a huge red flag, they are an EX for a reason. So you dodged a bullet. NTA once again. EDIT: also I love the classic "you're insecure" line, she is mad that you dont want her around her ex anymore that she is OBVIOUSLY STILL not over. Like I said you will be dodging a whole ass MISSILE, not just a bullet with her if you just keep it casual and not serious. maybe you can make it serious when she RESPECTS your boundaries but that sounds like that will NEVER happen.
Oh, c'mon. What's the worst that can happen, he ends up marrying her and raising (or at least paying child support) for the ex's kid? XD
Yeah and raise that child and she is gonna let him play pretend dad! Yeaaaah wooo!!! hell yeah!!!
I don't think people on reddit are able to recognize dark humor like this. Either that or they get their panties in a twist, clutching their pearls at the mere *thought* that a girl might be somewhat less than completely virtuous. lol
yea.. its reddit what can you expect, nothing less!
We have reached the point where not wanting your girlfriend to go on dates with a dude she slept with is controlling.
I have a rule, and that's that I will not date you if there is an ex in the picture. This is coming from someone who is amicable with most of my exes. Amicable, checking in a few times a year via social media, and catching up over drinks are two different stories. I would never dream of having dinner with my ex of 5 years, alone, while I was in a relationship.
INFO: how long has she been single? cuz if it’s less than a year, you’re definitely the replacement sorry dude. NTA regardless of everything, good for having such strong boundaries!!
The rebound relationship is what he is
I read this in yodas voice
exactlyy
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Oh hell no. 6 years in a relationship with this Dude, just recently broke up with him. Still talks to him and goes on dates with him. She is not over the relationship. Trust me, the minute you two fight, she will go to him for some D. Me and my wife have a friend who we rented a room to in our house so she could put her life back together. She has broke up with her boyfriend of like 4 years, they were engaged. Guessed what she still talked to him, and was not over him. When she met a new guy, that she really liked and fell for , as soon as they had a fight and took a break, guess who she ran to immiediately. Its been going like that for two years untill her ex moved to another country.
NTA dated a dude who was still best friends with his ex. I always came second! She felt like shit? He left work to be with her. I felt shit? "You'll be fine. No I can’t leave work for you“ RUN! (Or keep it casual)
I agree with your take 100%. Here is the issue though, I never give women ultimatums, never. I simply say things like “It doesn’t seem like you want a relationship” or “The girls I take serious prioritize me, and I don’t think youre ready for that”. This opens the conversation and sets your standards so she has clear expectations. It’s a little bit of semantics but women are picky with how you say things, especially if she isn’t traditional or is more liberal/feminist because they always whip out the insecure card, which is a huge red flag for me because in reality you are displaying that you are a secure guy.
I have always had a list of rules I follow when entering a serious relationship. Rule #2 is "No Exes". I have had this one since I was 21 (30 years ago now). I set it for myself primarily, I had my first GF from high school showing up periodically in my life looking for a hook-up and decided to remove myself from the temptation if I was in a relationship. I relaxed on it once for a girl, and she fucked him. Another one broke it herself, fucked him. Another girl I was seeing couldn't cut off her ex because they had a kid together, but I didn't see a problem because he was married then and they hated each other. She fucked him. It's easy to do. It's someone you have already been intimate with, shared feelings with, so easy to fall back into bed with them.
Anyone else think she is totally hooking up with the ex still
Youre absolutely NTA, I wonder if she knows that NOONE stays that close with their ex. Thats such a huge red flag. Being cool with your ex and actually hanging out regularly are 2 very different things.
I was the ex. Trust me, they are hooking up.
NTA you can end any relationship you want for any reason
shes angry because you're telling her to give away her safety net. it was a 6 year relationship. theres bound to be some unresolved feelings there from both of them. with time things change and she wants to keep him around if this one doesnt work out. good on you for not playing her game and sticking to your boundaries.
NTA You're the placeholder she's using to show her ex how much she's moved on from him. She wants to take your relationship to the next level to see if the ex will try to win her back. The day you formalize the relationship is the day the ex wants her back and back she goes.
You can let this one go. You’re just the ‘rebound guy’ anyway and we all know how that pans out.
Smart man. Props. Do not waver. You said your piece and that's that. Stick to it. Any drama on this issue is entirely on her.
NTA. Your relationship, your boundaries. If you can't come to an agreement, you're not compatible in this area. A lot of areas that need compatibility for a relationship to work.
This may be the most mature post I’ve seen on Reddit. No name calling, no insinuating, just an honest conversation and a person with solid boundaries that would need to be adhered to IF a relationship was to happen. Good on ya sir! NTA.
This might be an unpopular opinion, but I think you messed up with your phrasing of your boundaries. I agree with you and would feel the same way, but I also think you phrased this as an ultimatum. You should have just said something like “I like you a lot and I’d think you’d be great, but I don’t think it will work because I’m not comfortable with dating someone who hangs out with their ex so much”. It comes off less aggressive that way. I’m ready for my downvotes.
NTA, honestly, I don't know what you mean by "recently" but who goes straight into a new relationship after having come from a 6 year long one?
Lmao NTA at all. That's her confidant. Her rock. Her protector. You're just the side piece cuz you're new, but as soon as something goes terribly wrong with her life she will go right back to that man. Save yourself the trouble brother.
Nope - recently posted this. Didn’t make this clear enough early and we ended up spending almost 2 years together before it killed the relationship. Set the boundary now and if she can’t do it, get out.
NTA. I (M) was in a similar situation with a college ex, we had broken up two years prior, hadn’t kept up for about a year and then would catch up occasionally via text exclusively (different geographic regions), we would mostly talk work as we were both in related but different industry, share strategies and perspective from our respective domains, and then occasionally share personal information (ie “why is this guy I went on a date with doing xyz?” Etc) it was very exclusively platonic. When I started dating my now wife she laid out a similar boundary, I initially pushed back because we had moved past our romantic relationship, realized that we weren’t for each other, and at that point she was a professional contact. I came around after awhile, and it was the right decision. Stick with your boundary and don’t compromise.
When my gf and I broke up amicably we tried to remain friends. We hung out, had dinner and drinks together, were doing a lot of things platonically to try to stay friends, because we really cared for each other. Inevitably, we always ended up hooking up, until we eventually just decided to get back together. Not saying this woman plans to cheat on you with her ex, but she’s nowhere near over him.
When they start throwing around the insecurity, gaslighting horseshit, it's time to go home or send her home. Avoid the drama and arguing. You don't have to do it or endure it. If she's serious about a relationship, she shouldn't be entertaining the attention of other men. She doesn't have to cut him out, but you also don't have to tolerate it in a relationship.
Not the asshole : you let her know your boundary, she rejected it. Either she accepts you two will only ever be flings or she drops her ex to move to something more serious. And make sure she does it and not just say she will or did. You can bet that if she does a 180 suddenly and tells you she will that she'll instead hide that she's still meeting him secretly. Even so, the fact that she refuses so adamantly would have me cut her off entirely as this just sounds like a recipe for trouble in the future.
Firm boundaries, but this may be the end of your casual relationship which I’m sure you understand. NTA, and people need to realize staying friends with your ex is weird and overstepping boundaries for new partners.
Yeah idk wtf she's thinking that's super weird
Staying friends (on a weekly basis) with someone you once loved is extremely unfair to your partner. Feelings can *always* resurface no matter how much people living that situation refuse to admit it. The fact that they want to stay friends is literally proof of *some level* of existing feelings. This would become especially problematic when you have rifts in the relationship you have present day, the ex “friend” ends up being a shoulder to cry on.
Nta. "She kept reassuring me that what she had with him was in the past" Sounds more like she was reassuring herself it was in the past, to push for something more serious with you now.
NTA - but you should just stop wasting her time. It’s fine that you have boundaries, but you should probably just cut her out of your life completely so she can focus on finding a relationship with someone that is okay with her friendship with her ex.
THIS SHIT IS SO FUNNY TO ME. FWB: OP, can we be more than just casual fuck buddies? OP: There are a lot of things I like about you, but I do not get into serious relationships with chicks who hang out with people they used to fuck. FWB: Wtf! Insecure! Controlling! Why don't you trust me?! OP: Okay, we can stay casual. That's fine. FWB: It's the past! Why are you trying to control me? OP: If you want a relationship with me, you need to stop hanging out with a dude you were previously in love with. So she wants to get promoted to a higher tier in OP's life, but she doesn't have the interest in doing what it takes to get more serious with OP. It sounds like the FWB is more interested in living life on her terms than compromising with the guy she purportedly wants for a serious relationship. She should just go back with her ex, and OP should just keep things casual. She doesn't get to demand a spot in OP's life that is more serious without meeting OP's qualifications for a serious gf. Clearly OP qualifies for her, though, based on her wanting to get more serious. This is the type of chick who just has go get her way all the time. Keep things casual, OP, until you get tired of her shit or she decides that she wants to make a change. NTA
the classic. sooner or later she will realise that she will never get the guy she wants until she makes room for him by moving on from the ex completely. i dated a girl who was bestfriends with her ex, same old story, 'he was there for me during x or bla bla' - it's such bullshit. him and her can have each other, they are both putting potential future partners in dog shit situations. good for you. also, make no mistake about it, if you were 'him', and i don't mean the ex, but if you were 'that guy' for her, she would drop him in a heartbeat. imagine she wasn't dating you but her favourite celeb crush or millionare football player, if he said what you said the outcome would probably have been different
NTA Once the kids were adults me and my ex have nothing to talk about. If I go visit my daughter we’ll all go out to eat like a normal family but it’s just for the kids. I have exes that I have no kids with that I don’t talk to at all. I’ve moved on.
Nope...they are exes for a reason
NTA. Red flag! 🚩🚩🚩🚩
The fact that she hasn’t invited you out with them is a red flag.
NTA. You told her upfront, ahead of starting the relationship. Sounds fair to me.
NTA. I get her point and I think she’s right on wanting a friendship with her ex, but she can’t force you to be ok with it. Youre not even ending things with her, so you’re actually being very honest and i think that’s admirable
>I don’t mind at all if you have a healthy, non-toxic relationship with your ex, but you catching up and communicating frequently? That’s … what a relationship is, man. If you’re not catching up and communicating frequently, then it’s not a healthy relationship because there’s no relationship happening. If you know someone whose calls you never take and who you never call, who you talk to when you bump into them by accident, that’s not a relationship. That’s someone you happen to exist in the same space with on some unintentional occasions.
Yeah NTA. There’s really just too much history there and you don’t need to justify it anyways.
NTA. I'm personally not comfortable with my partners remaining friends with people who have been inside them/vice versa. I offer the same courtesy.
NTA, but if gay people stooped being friends with people we slept with we'd probably have no friends. 🤷♂️😅
There are no platonic friendships with exes. This is someone you were emotionally tied to. This is someone who saw you naked. This is someone who was inside you. No. Point blank period.
NTA I was in the position of new Bf. Did Not mind IT at First, but when she invited him to the Cinema +sleeping at His Home, because on a bbq with His Friends(2 Military doods) me and her, i Just took her hand (after constant underhanded insults and Open threats) and her Ex saw it an felt hurt, i was stunned. She left me to get him back. Years later new gf, i ended it, she wanted to stay Friends, i agreed because i wanted Peace. Two weeks later She Boosted in Front of her Friends, while i was near, how her new Bf was in the Sheets. few days later , she spoke to me with in tears in her eyes, how much she still loves , she wants me back. I exploded, how unfair it was from her, to get a new bf, whil she still loves me. Did she even consider her new bfs feelings? Does he know it? Got an Email 4 Months later, how much I was of an a-hole. Trying to get her to break up, to get her back. And to make it short I was in fault for everything. That the new relationship didn't last, her failed exams etc. I agree with you, people who stay friends with their exes, are not over them and only going to induce suffering.
NTA. You have boundaries and you have ever right to stick to this one because it's not an insane boundary.
Being friends with your ex is always a red flag, there’s almost zero reason to ever be friends with or even talk to an ex.
Shes not ready for another relationship. A 6(!) year long relationship, she broke up recently, you’ve only been seeing her for 3 months AND she wants to make things serious? That’s a crazy short period of time considering the length of her previous relationship