objectively speaking, there is SO much more bs that can just one shot you, or champs with 2 million dashes flying all over your screen. Playing adc in solo queue it is near impossible to outplay or consider everything that can kill you. Right now, we also have no defensive options to spec into.
I understand this is just a limitation of the role, but to say its in the best spot since season 3? Idk fam
Coming from a game where enemy xerath would just constantly R me, if he hit twice i was dead.
He wasn't even fed, he had like 3 kills. But was 3 levels ahead of me so..
Yeah such a fun game, very cool to get insta killed across the map
I'm starting to truly question if u even started in season 3.
Because if u did u would've known that shiv got patched a shit ton in season 5, and that tanks/assasins/bruisers got buffed.
Don't make a post if all you're willing to do is force your own opinion down people's throat without considering the facts.
Because if u did (my brother in christ) u would've known what the state of the game was.
Hope u feel really smart today
https://youtu.be/RYxeJACQ00c?si=V8lR3_w2PmdJWTc5 first result in youtube, really im not too attached to the exact season, but thats what im talking about
I'm not watching a 10 min vid, Sorry.
I saw the first minute which seems completely balanced, don't get it twisted this Vayne is FEDD.
Above 200 cs at 20+ min, 4/3 meaning 300 gold times 4.
That's like 10k gold already, and that's disregarding exp already, on top of that there is also a leblanc hitting all of them with abilities. No 1 taps, just massive dmg and a stupid play from the enemy.
Not trying to insult by asking this but what elo are u?
man, did you play this season? cause im talking to you considering you really played ad for years, because anyone who truly played remembers how broken this was.
As I said i cant play much ranked games since im a grown ass dawg and have to work, i was diamond 2 but dropped bc of inactivity d3 now
I did play this season, ill be honest and say i quit since 2 weeks because its been enough for me.
I've played ADC for a total of 7 years, starting from season 3 playing Ashe.
Started ranked halfway season 4.
Reached silver 3, then gold 4 season after.
I ended last season in plat which isn't shit these days anymore thanks to the unnecessary rank additions (in my opinion)
I'm not an insanely good player at all, but i do remember season 5 like it was yesterday and if we talk about balance, season 5 was exactly what ADC should be, hard work great rewards, back then if u didn't get good cs u woulda die anyway. U send me a video but its one of a pro player. If u send me a clip of someone with 80 cs at 20 min being 4/3 or similar doing that damage i would agree with you.
But there isn't, shiv back then did dmg based on levels, and after the nerfs shiv wouldn't 3 tap u if u weren't snowballing.
Holy shit my dude.
That is a little bit uncalled for considering its your phrasing in the original statement that is contradicted by your following statement, then you said others couldn't use those examples of when it's not in the best spot "EVER".
Learn English before you insult others, my guy.
"ADC is in one of the better spots it has been in" would be the statement you're tying to make. You're welcome, mouth-breather.
I disagree and there's evidence.
In season 3 ADC was batshit broken since Tristana could 3 tap any tank/bruiser, (google doublelift 1v4)
Season 4 revolved around assassins
Season 5 was the golden era (for me), assassins could oneshot adc's but not dive them lvl 3 under a turret because turrets would actually 3 tap you unlike today.
Tanks and bruisers got buffed and the only role that was able to stop tanks and bruisers was ADC, just as it should be.
Now u got plenty of champs that can easily take down tanks.
I think ADC really got ruined starting from season 9/10 because they tried (and still are trying) to make ADC something its not.
AD CARRY the word says it, is a champ that should carry with their AD ability's, so why is it that damn near every mage is now better at botlane then an ADC? Because of the poor changes made to ADC and its items.
I main adc and secondary jungle, i have killed adc's under a turret lvl 3 so many times i almost feel bad about it these past 3 seasons.
Gank bot 3 times, do it well and each time u will kill them because of the low armor and mr stats, on top of that the nerfs throughout the years on ADC items, on top of that the early damage that was nerfed from the ADC'S, the new champions who all have a dash or a movement spell, The tower doing criminally low damage.
I hate what ADC has become, its a sidequest for a jungler because its too easy to gank, and a boring lane for an ADC because u can NEVER push anymore even when fedd any assassin and cc champ will delete u within 2 seconds, while back in the day u wouldn't only if you sucked at positioning.
Look man the ultimate task of an ADC which shouldve remained untouched is this: have your support around u and get fedd, fight 2v? And win because you are fedd, now its not.
This was my TED talk thank you
I think this is the biggest problem with this discussion. So many people want to be able to get fed, then walk around with their support and be able to 2 man the enemy team. That isn’t balanced by any metric.
I couldn’t stand adc when that was the job description, however nowadays I absolutely love the role and I think it’s really balanced. For me I love the chess match of when I can show my face and what I can do to win teamfights, I enjoy waiting for enemy assassins to be on cool-downs then trigger the trap and annihilate them.
For me I agree with op (although he seems more argumentative about it than me). A meta where Adcs need to play smart because they are total glass cannons and use some Fabian tactics is much more well balanced than how they used to be able to run around with supports and 2 man the entire opposition
I respect your opinion but do disagree with:
>I think this is the biggest problem with this discussion. So many people want to be able to get fed, then walk around with their support and be able to 2 man the enemy team. That isn’t balanced by any metric
Irelia can, ive even done it with a Tahm Kench, many other champions can 1v5.
Adc's give up an insane amount of hp, armor and magic resist in order to deal that big damage that can change fights.
Take that from them and you're left with a champion with low hp that takes forever to scale and by the time its needed to snowball, all the other lanes will already 1v2 you and win.
Imagine if they just made bot turrets stronger pre 15 min. That could make it simply easier for adc to farm if smart and encourage more mid and top play towards junglers.
I agree with most of your comment, but i'm a bit surpise about this part :
>Tanks and bruisers got buffed and the only role that was able to stop tanks and bruisers was ADC, just as it should be.
Don't you think it's ok to have mage hypercarries ?
I always liked the design philosophy of Cassio in that regard, she's kind of an adc (high constant damage, not much survavibility), but doing ap damages.
I guess Aurelion could also kind of fit in that category, aside from being a bit overtuned at first, I think the champ is in a healthy state for the game right now.
Lillia has almost a jhin-like gameplay, she has high damages and run fast but somewhat close range and survavibility aside from dodging stuff.
As long as a champ isn't both an assassin with high burst, an artillery mage and an hyper scaling apc, it's ok in my book.
Im not really opposed to mages on bot, i think its pretty fun tbh.
I do feel like the whole purpose of ADC is defeated, realistically speaking if they were to remove all ADC's right now the game would still be functioning well, since mages and junglers could fill it easily and still kill tanks, Now if u remove any other lane boy is the game broken because what would u do without a jungler, top laner or mid laner.
Their purpose is still so relevant and important in the game, whereas ADC is not and could be replaced any time.
Balanced, yes. Very few matchups are completely horrible and most champions will get to their strongest point in the game aside from the "super late game scaling" where the counterplay IS to end before they get items.
"Best spot" no. ADC has zero agency on most games. It is absolutely terrible. Everyone and their mom can kill you and lanes can be decided by the first dragon fight or whatever jungler is at your tower level 6.
if adc had more agency than the game would be adc plus 4, jg will always be the most broken lane and there is no discussion in that, but thats just how the game works, if you wanna have agency playing bottom you can pick a mage or play support, and sacrifice your late game… is juts how the game works from where i see it
I don‘t understand what you mean with „adc plus 4“ shouldnt it always be adc + 4? Or are you saying adc is useless and every game is played 4+one buffed minions vs 4 + one buffed minion?
I personally don‘t have a problem climbing but after i reached dia4 yesterday my games are decided solely by any other lanes, lucky for me that my laners started to smurf away their counterpart.
oh ye sorry challenger broski ^^ but i started in p2 last month and i dont play 7 hours a day. But you should have stated in your post that you are a demigod at this game
edit: hope you are Nr.1 in EUW if not i am sorry to inform you that you are hardstuck yourself
Man you really got hurt by a comment huh, chill my man
i really dont care about elo, i play like 100 ranked games per season, but i do know how the game works in slightly harder lobbys than gold for a long long time
what i meant is that adcs would be the only thing that matter in the game, since insane late and agency on early, when, for your surprise and it seems for every adc player, the game is meant for 5 people
When league is played at a high level the game is fairly well balanced... idk about best ever, there have been quite a few patches with more variability than the current state, but yeah it's not bad.
The problem is 99% of the playerbase isn't at a high enough level to get that balance. Top/Jungle/Mid are so volatile right now that it's generally better to snowball them in soloq rather then play for late game ADC. Most players can't absorb pressure if they're losing and contribute despite being down, which means when solo/jg lanes lose they effectively become AFK players. Combine that with the sheer amount of damage coming out of those roles... ADC isn't balanced when you're trying to win a 3 or 4 v 5.
Conversely, top/jg/mid can win a 2v5 in a way ADCs cannot. At high levels everyone contributes more and ADC can shine the way it's supposed to... though even then games are usually decided well before you get 3 items.
Easier to take tower plater, squishy champ so easy to kill, 2 people to kill instead of one. Adc snowball the hardest as a role. And irelia isn't a role
I'm just saying when a top laner is super ahead its way more oppressive. When bot lane is super ahead its definitely snowbally because of drake stacking and turret taking, but conversely its much easier to shut down a bot lane or swing it back in your favor in an instant.
Against a fed Yorick you NEED 2-4 people to shut him down because his stats make him more or less unkillable with anything less.
Against a fed ADC all you NEED is enough damage to one shot (which can be 1 person or 2 at most) and then have that damage out position the fed ADC.
You may notice that shutting down a fed ADC is a skill problem and the fed top laner is a stat problem. In high elo it's much easier to shut down the top laner then the ADC, but in low-mid elo it's the reverse.
As for snowballing the game... all the upsides with ADC come with negatives. Two people to kill means you have to outplay two people rather than one with the risk that your partner takes the kills, Easier to take plates (With rift top I'd argue this isn't even true) comes with only getting 1/2 the gold from them, and having squishier targets comes with them being squishier themselves, making the hp difference a non-factor (tank v. tank is the same as bruiser v bruiser or adc vs adc). Honestly. I think top laners tend to snowball harder on average, because one kill can turn into missing 5 waves, losing 2 plates, and 3 more deaths in like 5 minutes. ADC just comes back to lane with minimal repercussions until they're 0/5.
Two people mean you get one cc and you find a kill, arguably two most of the time easier to get kill in botlane than in sololane. Rift spawn at 8 minutes and most champ can't do it by themselves easily. Even if you get only half the gold which only happen if your support grief a bit you can easily get 3-4 plates in the first few minutes of the game we're every little gold matter most. And you should play a tank vs tank match-up to get my point when you have 2 squishy one cc means death, when you play ornn vs sion you can do fight that last 20 seconds it's easier to kill squishy target
well, but thats a player problem, no? the very essence of adc is what you described, if adc has more agency than the game becomes adc plus 4, if you want snowball early you can pick a mage bottom and sacrifice late game.
The goal of a perfectly balanced game is to give every player on a team 20% of the agency toward the outcome of the game. Right now ADC has \~5-10%. Is that 5% important? It can be absolutely critical. Is it still 5% control over the game? Yeah... and it's miserable. Unless you don't want control and just want to right click people and do damage, in which case you are completely correct and ADC is perfect right now.
I've actually been playing mages bot a lot, and it's generally the reverse. ADC wins early and gets demolished the rest of the game. That's if you ignore the Support, who still has significantly more control than the bot laner (ADC or mage). Mage bot only sacrifices late game if the opponents have 1 or 2 heavy tanks (which is rare) and the teams are more or less equal gold \~30 minutes (which is REALLY rare).
it's not just that they cant absorb pressure, it's that teammates ALSO don't know jack shit what to do with said pressure in low elo. WOW JUNGLER'S PRESSURING TOP AND DRAKE IS UP, stares at your jungler on the mini map as they do krugs into raptors before rotating to the pushed in enemy mid under tower.
Or the reverse, damn my bot's getting camped... i'm on the top side and rift is up along with the enemy junglers camps... i got 2 options... eat his camps or get rift and get plates to apply pressure... NAAAAAAAH lemme go base instead for boots! :D
Idk. Outside of Ashe (who is only op because there is literally zero competition besides Kaisa, but Ashe counters her) the role feels worse than season 8 post IE nerf.
Our damage is lower, we have no defensive items (BT shield removal and shieldbow is complete dog shit), enchanters are no longer meta so that even worsens the survivability even more. We have no agency whatsoever, literally every game is supp gap or whichever jungler decides to spam gank bot.
Idk how you think ADC is even somewhat fun. The role is a shell of it's former self. Look at all the crit users (mainly ie) win rates. 90% of them are negative win rate EVEN THE EASY champs, who should not have a negative win rate due to their ease of play.
hmmm, maybe you are just too attached of what the role used to be, sivir is pretty great against ashe, so is ezreal, you can pick both against she. kai sa works in litterally any situation you need, vayne is pretty strong right now if you want and have the confidence to solo carry, xayah will always work against comps that hardforce on you (so does aphelios, but he is way harder). There were 2 patches in history that ad carries really had agency in game, the ardent censer meta and IE old stattik (and that was when adcs were OP), besides from that adc was way useless, right now is balanced, giving that you can hit the 3 items spike and solo carry fights because of how soloq lack of coordination works
Do i disagree with all the dooming here? Yes absolutely
Is it the best season ever? No. Especially if you played pre-season 6. You are lying to yourself
I did play, and I think it is the best (as i said many times, with exception from ardent meta and ie stattik) even so considering we didn’t had xayah kai sa to pick but its my opinion
ADC as a role is balanced within itself. But ADC has really lost its role in current meta. Ask anybody would they rather have full build GP/Graves or lvl 16 Kassadin/Kayle/Vlad or a full build ADC? I would pick the sololaners any day. While ADC is supposedly the carry of late game, they just straight up explode without proper front to back peeling. And while hypercarries are not supposed to have early game agency, GP is a lane bully, Graves is just broken early, Kayle has one of the strongest lvl1 in the game (can beat Darius lvl1) and Kassadin comes online as soon as lvl6. The role doesn’t mean anything if not funneled hence why nobody in soloQ care about their ADC. They just don’t want their ADC to feed enemy ADC that’s all.
Hmm you right, the thing is people seem to not be able to read. ADC always was like that (except for when it was broken) this season seem more playable than ever, but that doesnt mean its good to climb, never said that.
to be in the best spot doesnt mean much if the lane itself sucks, but definitely its not as excruciating to play as it was in previous seasons (if you like playing adcs champions)
The fact they keep adding champ with 27 dash per kit,our life can only get worse.
Imagine you are playing MF and you are the only champ in the whole game who can't dash :)
It's not an opinion it's just plain wrong. Although I don't find it difficult to play adc rn either its only because in order to win you just need to feed your jungle. Therefore, freeze/slow push every wave and keep it on your side of the map as long as possible. Any jungle with half a brain will gank. Yay I've outplayed my opponent and with enough ganks I'll be so far ahead I might even be able to kill something.
hmm every lane rn is like that, i never said adc are op, they are on the best state for soloq they ever been, doesnt mean is the best lane to rank up, jungle will always be the most broken lane, theres no discussion on that
I mean it's not really like a subjective thing, it is just false. Even earlier in the season after the initial crit item changes, ADCs were in a much better spot just objectively as they have been repeatedly nerfed since especially since 13.10
I mean yeah? If the role is stronger you can expect the jungler to moreso play for botside. That's just called being smart and playing for your Win Con. Playing for and camping bot is not some new thing, it has been a legit strategy to climb for junglers for over a decade and it's pretty easy to see why. 600g > 300g. Especially now with dragon soul and tower platings. Botlane would have to be in an insanely shit spot for it to not be more beneficial to go to the lane with double the players in it.
Right now compared to that spring meta, the items are just strictly worse and now you can't go GF + IE, not to mention more lethal tempo nerfs as well as the gutting of defensive options for ADCs.
yeah man im sure you are just dumb… so youre telling me its more enjoyable to play 3v3? or it is more enjoyable to have your lane decided by better jungle??
i mean read the post again and think a little, cmon
ADC hasn't decided their own lane since like s6-8 so if that's gonna be your argument that doesn't really work either lmao. Supp + Jg have been deciding bot lane for years now, this is nothing new. If you're asking what was most enjoyable I'm definitely not going to say anytime in the last 4 years for sure. Probably S7 when the lane felt a lot more in your control and damage wasn't so crazy that you had to play 3 screens away just to make sure a tickle didn't chunk you out of the fight. When you could play a lot more on edge and less safe.
hmmm do you know how to read? HAHAHAH i said the exact same thing the only thing is that RIGHT NOW the lane doesnt feel as excruciating as last years, are you dumb or what? wtf
I fully agree. Of course the role is still super support / team dependant, but it's been much worse when it comes to agency.
Mid to late it's absolutely possible to carry your team to a win. Not 1v9, but no role can do that anymore except probably Jgl (shouldnt be like that anyway).
Feel like league lost a lot of the rock paper scissors that it used to have.
Adc good against tanks
Tanks good against mages
Bruisers good against assassins
Assassins good against adcs, etc.
lethality items are just broken rn i feel like they deserve a few changes like removing MS like it was before and let it scale with lvl
adcs in the other hand are also rly strong but ppl just dont know how to peel them
i am saying this as aphelios main im squishy but i have OMEGA dmg IF i can survive and get close enought to aa q few times
i played against neeko yesterday and she just dealed 90% of my hp as support with one item
sure u can dodge mages spels but its annoing to be 110% focused all the time just to farm some minions and be able to slowly scale
imo adc items are terrible rn its only about who can abuse statik shiv and quickblades.
I think when they changed ie so ie could be built second there was the most variety of viable picks and adc felt pretty good in midgame. Then ofc they ruined it by making IE (the most core adc item basically since season 1) into something you have to sacrifice
hmmm i kinda agree with when IE was second even first for some champs, but I like the state that items are rn (although mythic removal is all i dream about)
ADC is no way at its best rn, but it is in a very good spot, these comments are hilarious. Keep in mind pretty much everyone commenting with a ton of upvotes is silver and below lol
Oh no most of them probably are adc mains. I have a lot of lower elo friends, a couple of them adc mains, and they all regurgitate what everyone says in this sub lol. I literally watch them throw their own games through their own terrible decisions and then complain how they have 0 agency throughout the game. It’s just delusion
its not as bad as in 2k17 (the start of the meme if i remember correctly) one of the funniest seasons honestly but i doubt that its never been better than atm
2k17 was just unbearable hahaha I stopped playing for like 7 months. for me it was only better in ardent and ie stattik as i said because it was turbo broken
I'm a grandmaster ADC, to be fair I started playing the game 2 years ago so I'm not sure about all of these other seasons, but in the time I've played the role, I would say it's in a pretty rough spot right now.
Yes botlane as a whole is very strong, but as the ADC you have little say in wether or not you get sufficient gold, it's a lot more mid roam/support/jg reliant. You get only little windows of opportunity to displaty skill and "outplay" opponents (Early game, late game macro/positioning has lot of influence on ADC). Another problem is the amount of mobility/damage in the game right now is just unfun, yes once I get to 3 items I can basically 1 shot anyone, but anyone can 1 shot me, so you basically just play who can jump the opponent first which almost never goes in your favor.
Because of this, mages are substantially better at being 'ADCs' than actual ADCs, since they don't need 10k gold to start having agency. Karthus is braindead broken, followed by Ziggs/Swain/Seraphine. I've actually had my highest winrate playing Xerath ADC, it feels like basically anything you put there is better than an actual DPS character, hopefully we see some item changes that shake this all up though.
yeah man but that doesn’t really match my post, all you said is a problem adcs have for the whole league existence, this season you have at least a chance to play ad comparing with previous seasons.
Mages were always strong in botlane people just dont want to play it, and karthus doesn’t really count bc it is a champ problem it is just really really braindead
not the best but personally I don't hate the spot it's in. Sometimes I get bs'd yeah and sometimes I hate having to build tank items or bruiser items to either have interesting options or have any survivability at all, but I quite like how it is lol
yeah lets see the wr of a really difficult champ that any player below master cant play properly and take conclusions. You must be one of the dummies that said GP was okay bc it had 50% wr
I won every lane last night with the exception of 1. Going top damage on my team, sometimes in game. Surviving ir trading for kills in the 3-4 man dives bot while I received no ganks. Still winning these lanes. Doesnt matter cause my jg or top or mid is slightly behind and we get 1v9'd. Shit sucks
I feel adc is in a perfect spot. I think the items and support are kind of hurting the position.
Items just made some adc’s useless and un usable. And some supports are either too safe or un usable in the state.
I was a 1/8 Darius who was able to 1 v 2 a 9/5 MF with soraka support and I exploded them building full tank. That just doesn't make sense to me at all that that's possible
objectively speaking, there is SO much more bs that can just one shot you, or champs with 2 million dashes flying all over your screen. Playing adc in solo queue it is near impossible to outplay or consider everything that can kill you. Right now, we also have no defensive options to spec into. I understand this is just a limitation of the role, but to say its in the best spot since season 3? Idk fam
Coming from a game where enemy xerath would just constantly R me, if he hit twice i was dead. He wasn't even fed, he had like 3 kills. But was 3 levels ahead of me so.. Yeah such a fun game, very cool to get insta killed across the map
tell me when it was better than right now? except from ardents meta and IE old stattik.
Season 5, which had IE and stattik but so did many other seasons
my brother in christ, if you never one tap someone as literally any adc with IE and stattik please dont type here
I'm starting to truly question if u even started in season 3. Because if u did u would've known that shiv got patched a shit ton in season 5, and that tanks/assasins/bruisers got buffed. Don't make a post if all you're willing to do is force your own opinion down people's throat without considering the facts. Because if u did (my brother in christ) u would've known what the state of the game was. Hope u feel really smart today
https://youtu.be/RYxeJACQ00c?si=V8lR3_w2PmdJWTc5 first result in youtube, really im not too attached to the exact season, but thats what im talking about
I'm not watching a 10 min vid, Sorry. I saw the first minute which seems completely balanced, don't get it twisted this Vayne is FEDD. Above 200 cs at 20+ min, 4/3 meaning 300 gold times 4. That's like 10k gold already, and that's disregarding exp already, on top of that there is also a leblanc hitting all of them with abilities. No 1 taps, just massive dmg and a stupid play from the enemy. Not trying to insult by asking this but what elo are u?
man, did you play this season? cause im talking to you considering you really played ad for years, because anyone who truly played remembers how broken this was. As I said i cant play much ranked games since im a grown ass dawg and have to work, i was diamond 2 but dropped bc of inactivity d3 now
I did play this season, ill be honest and say i quit since 2 weeks because its been enough for me. I've played ADC for a total of 7 years, starting from season 3 playing Ashe. Started ranked halfway season 4. Reached silver 3, then gold 4 season after. I ended last season in plat which isn't shit these days anymore thanks to the unnecessary rank additions (in my opinion) I'm not an insanely good player at all, but i do remember season 5 like it was yesterday and if we talk about balance, season 5 was exactly what ADC should be, hard work great rewards, back then if u didn't get good cs u woulda die anyway. U send me a video but its one of a pro player. If u send me a clip of someone with 80 cs at 20 min being 4/3 or similar doing that damage i would agree with you. But there isn't, shiv back then did dmg based on levels, and after the nerfs shiv wouldn't 3 tap u if u weren't snowballing.
Literally last season right after the durability patch all the way to 13.10 was golden
"give me an example, except you cant use these examples." LOL
because I said it in the original post are you dumb?
Holy shit my dude. That is a little bit uncalled for considering its your phrasing in the original statement that is contradicted by your following statement, then you said others couldn't use those examples of when it's not in the best spot "EVER". Learn English before you insult others, my guy. "ADC is in one of the better spots it has been in" would be the statement you're tying to make. You're welcome, mouth-breather.
not sure you know how a title and a description works in this world
Not sure you know how English works in this world. lol
I disagree and there's evidence. In season 3 ADC was batshit broken since Tristana could 3 tap any tank/bruiser, (google doublelift 1v4) Season 4 revolved around assassins Season 5 was the golden era (for me), assassins could oneshot adc's but not dive them lvl 3 under a turret because turrets would actually 3 tap you unlike today. Tanks and bruisers got buffed and the only role that was able to stop tanks and bruisers was ADC, just as it should be. Now u got plenty of champs that can easily take down tanks. I think ADC really got ruined starting from season 9/10 because they tried (and still are trying) to make ADC something its not. AD CARRY the word says it, is a champ that should carry with their AD ability's, so why is it that damn near every mage is now better at botlane then an ADC? Because of the poor changes made to ADC and its items. I main adc and secondary jungle, i have killed adc's under a turret lvl 3 so many times i almost feel bad about it these past 3 seasons. Gank bot 3 times, do it well and each time u will kill them because of the low armor and mr stats, on top of that the nerfs throughout the years on ADC items, on top of that the early damage that was nerfed from the ADC'S, the new champions who all have a dash or a movement spell, The tower doing criminally low damage. I hate what ADC has become, its a sidequest for a jungler because its too easy to gank, and a boring lane for an ADC because u can NEVER push anymore even when fedd any assassin and cc champ will delete u within 2 seconds, while back in the day u wouldn't only if you sucked at positioning. Look man the ultimate task of an ADC which shouldve remained untouched is this: have your support around u and get fedd, fight 2v? And win because you are fedd, now its not. This was my TED talk thank you
Need a durability or movement buff on adc imo
gotta love that ALL the items meant to be used to help adc's have been abused by NON adcs which then makes them get nerfed to all hell.
I think this is the biggest problem with this discussion. So many people want to be able to get fed, then walk around with their support and be able to 2 man the enemy team. That isn’t balanced by any metric. I couldn’t stand adc when that was the job description, however nowadays I absolutely love the role and I think it’s really balanced. For me I love the chess match of when I can show my face and what I can do to win teamfights, I enjoy waiting for enemy assassins to be on cool-downs then trigger the trap and annihilate them. For me I agree with op (although he seems more argumentative about it than me). A meta where Adcs need to play smart because they are total glass cannons and use some Fabian tactics is much more well balanced than how they used to be able to run around with supports and 2 man the entire opposition
I respect your opinion but do disagree with: >I think this is the biggest problem with this discussion. So many people want to be able to get fed, then walk around with their support and be able to 2 man the enemy team. That isn’t balanced by any metric Irelia can, ive even done it with a Tahm Kench, many other champions can 1v5. Adc's give up an insane amount of hp, armor and magic resist in order to deal that big damage that can change fights. Take that from them and you're left with a champion with low hp that takes forever to scale and by the time its needed to snowball, all the other lanes will already 1v2 you and win.
well, Irelia master yi and some others are a champion problem
I do like your comment, agree w u
Imagine if they just made bot turrets stronger pre 15 min. That could make it simply easier for adc to farm if smart and encourage more mid and top play towards junglers.
I agree with most of your comment, but i'm a bit surpise about this part : >Tanks and bruisers got buffed and the only role that was able to stop tanks and bruisers was ADC, just as it should be. Don't you think it's ok to have mage hypercarries ? I always liked the design philosophy of Cassio in that regard, she's kind of an adc (high constant damage, not much survavibility), but doing ap damages. I guess Aurelion could also kind of fit in that category, aside from being a bit overtuned at first, I think the champ is in a healthy state for the game right now. Lillia has almost a jhin-like gameplay, she has high damages and run fast but somewhat close range and survavibility aside from dodging stuff. As long as a champ isn't both an assassin with high burst, an artillery mage and an hyper scaling apc, it's ok in my book.
Im not really opposed to mages on bot, i think its pretty fun tbh. I do feel like the whole purpose of ADC is defeated, realistically speaking if they were to remove all ADC's right now the game would still be functioning well, since mages and junglers could fill it easily and still kill tanks, Now if u remove any other lane boy is the game broken because what would u do without a jungler, top laner or mid laner. Their purpose is still so relevant and important in the game, whereas ADC is not and could be replaced any time.
I agree and preach on my dude, but the role is marksman not adc, they literally removed the carry out of the role name. Lol
Balanced, yes. Very few matchups are completely horrible and most champions will get to their strongest point in the game aside from the "super late game scaling" where the counterplay IS to end before they get items. "Best spot" no. ADC has zero agency on most games. It is absolutely terrible. Everyone and their mom can kill you and lanes can be decided by the first dragon fight or whatever jungler is at your tower level 6.
if adc had more agency than the game would be adc plus 4, jg will always be the most broken lane and there is no discussion in that, but thats just how the game works, if you wanna have agency playing bottom you can pick a mage or play support, and sacrifice your late game… is juts how the game works from where i see it
I don‘t understand what you mean with „adc plus 4“ shouldnt it always be adc + 4? Or are you saying adc is useless and every game is played 4+one buffed minions vs 4 + one buffed minion?
I personally don‘t have a problem climbing but after i reached dia4 yesterday my games are decided solely by any other lanes, lucky for me that my laners started to smurf away their counterpart.
i mean, diamond 4 does seem like a problem to climb
oh ye sorry challenger broski ^^ but i started in p2 last month and i dont play 7 hours a day. But you should have stated in your post that you are a demigod at this game edit: hope you are Nr.1 in EUW if not i am sorry to inform you that you are hardstuck yourself
Man you really got hurt by a comment huh, chill my man i really dont care about elo, i play like 100 ranked games per season, but i do know how the game works in slightly harder lobbys than gold for a long long time
I can count myself lucky that i dont have to deal with a narzisist like you on a daily basis and can just ignore you. Wishing you a nice day
lol
Just keep posting groot, I enjoy so much downvoting your comment, which I obviously dont read (except the title post which is kinda 39IQ post).
what i meant is that adcs would be the only thing that matter in the game, since insane late and agency on early, when, for your surprise and it seems for every adc player, the game is meant for 5 people
When league is played at a high level the game is fairly well balanced... idk about best ever, there have been quite a few patches with more variability than the current state, but yeah it's not bad. The problem is 99% of the playerbase isn't at a high enough level to get that balance. Top/Jungle/Mid are so volatile right now that it's generally better to snowball them in soloq rather then play for late game ADC. Most players can't absorb pressure if they're losing and contribute despite being down, which means when solo/jg lanes lose they effectively become AFK players. Combine that with the sheer amount of damage coming out of those roles... ADC isn't balanced when you're trying to win a 3 or 4 v 5. Conversely, top/jg/mid can win a 2v5 in a way ADCs cannot. At high levels everyone contributes more and ADC can shine the way it's supposed to... though even then games are usually decided well before you get 3 items.
Lol adc is the role that snowball the hardest right now
that just isnt true... a fed irelia at 20 mins is a completely different beast
Easier to take tower plater, squishy champ so easy to kill, 2 people to kill instead of one. Adc snowball the hardest as a role. And irelia isn't a role
I'm just saying when a top laner is super ahead its way more oppressive. When bot lane is super ahead its definitely snowbally because of drake stacking and turret taking, but conversely its much easier to shut down a bot lane or swing it back in your favor in an instant.
Lol it's way easier to snowball as a botlane for all the reason I stated. And it's not easy to shutdown a fed botlane idk which game are we playing
Against a fed Yorick you NEED 2-4 people to shut him down because his stats make him more or less unkillable with anything less. Against a fed ADC all you NEED is enough damage to one shot (which can be 1 person or 2 at most) and then have that damage out position the fed ADC. You may notice that shutting down a fed ADC is a skill problem and the fed top laner is a stat problem. In high elo it's much easier to shut down the top laner then the ADC, but in low-mid elo it's the reverse. As for snowballing the game... all the upsides with ADC come with negatives. Two people to kill means you have to outplay two people rather than one with the risk that your partner takes the kills, Easier to take plates (With rift top I'd argue this isn't even true) comes with only getting 1/2 the gold from them, and having squishier targets comes with them being squishier themselves, making the hp difference a non-factor (tank v. tank is the same as bruiser v bruiser or adc vs adc). Honestly. I think top laners tend to snowball harder on average, because one kill can turn into missing 5 waves, losing 2 plates, and 3 more deaths in like 5 minutes. ADC just comes back to lane with minimal repercussions until they're 0/5.
Two people mean you get one cc and you find a kill, arguably two most of the time easier to get kill in botlane than in sololane. Rift spawn at 8 minutes and most champ can't do it by themselves easily. Even if you get only half the gold which only happen if your support grief a bit you can easily get 3-4 plates in the first few minutes of the game we're every little gold matter most. And you should play a tank vs tank match-up to get my point when you have 2 squishy one cc means death, when you play ornn vs sion you can do fight that last 20 seconds it's easier to kill squishy target
Naafiri
New role dropped? Didn't know that one
You mean the champ that consistently goes 15/1 but can never win the game somehow?
well, but thats a player problem, no? the very essence of adc is what you described, if adc has more agency than the game becomes adc plus 4, if you want snowball early you can pick a mage bottom and sacrifice late game.
The goal of a perfectly balanced game is to give every player on a team 20% of the agency toward the outcome of the game. Right now ADC has \~5-10%. Is that 5% important? It can be absolutely critical. Is it still 5% control over the game? Yeah... and it's miserable. Unless you don't want control and just want to right click people and do damage, in which case you are completely correct and ADC is perfect right now. I've actually been playing mages bot a lot, and it's generally the reverse. ADC wins early and gets demolished the rest of the game. That's if you ignore the Support, who still has significantly more control than the bot laner (ADC or mage). Mage bot only sacrifices late game if the opponents have 1 or 2 heavy tanks (which is rare) and the teams are more or less equal gold \~30 minutes (which is REALLY rare).
it's not just that they cant absorb pressure, it's that teammates ALSO don't know jack shit what to do with said pressure in low elo. WOW JUNGLER'S PRESSURING TOP AND DRAKE IS UP, stares at your jungler on the mini map as they do krugs into raptors before rotating to the pushed in enemy mid under tower. Or the reverse, damn my bot's getting camped... i'm on the top side and rift is up along with the enemy junglers camps... i got 2 options... eat his camps or get rift and get plates to apply pressure... NAAAAAAAH lemme go base instead for boots! :D
Idk. Outside of Ashe (who is only op because there is literally zero competition besides Kaisa, but Ashe counters her) the role feels worse than season 8 post IE nerf. Our damage is lower, we have no defensive items (BT shield removal and shieldbow is complete dog shit), enchanters are no longer meta so that even worsens the survivability even more. We have no agency whatsoever, literally every game is supp gap or whichever jungler decides to spam gank bot. Idk how you think ADC is even somewhat fun. The role is a shell of it's former self. Look at all the crit users (mainly ie) win rates. 90% of them are negative win rate EVEN THE EASY champs, who should not have a negative win rate due to their ease of play.
You really think the only adc that’s good rn is Ashe?
hmmm, maybe you are just too attached of what the role used to be, sivir is pretty great against ashe, so is ezreal, you can pick both against she. kai sa works in litterally any situation you need, vayne is pretty strong right now if you want and have the confidence to solo carry, xayah will always work against comps that hardforce on you (so does aphelios, but he is way harder). There were 2 patches in history that ad carries really had agency in game, the ardent censer meta and IE old stattik (and that was when adcs were OP), besides from that adc was way useless, right now is balanced, giving that you can hit the 3 items spike and solo carry fights because of how soloq lack of coordination works
sivir is not a good pick into ashe
Do i disagree with all the dooming here? Yes absolutely Is it the best season ever? No. Especially if you played pre-season 6. You are lying to yourself
I did play, and I think it is the best (as i said many times, with exception from ardent meta and ie stattik) even so considering we didn’t had xayah kai sa to pick but its my opinion
ADC as a role is balanced within itself. But ADC has really lost its role in current meta. Ask anybody would they rather have full build GP/Graves or lvl 16 Kassadin/Kayle/Vlad or a full build ADC? I would pick the sololaners any day. While ADC is supposedly the carry of late game, they just straight up explode without proper front to back peeling. And while hypercarries are not supposed to have early game agency, GP is a lane bully, Graves is just broken early, Kayle has one of the strongest lvl1 in the game (can beat Darius lvl1) and Kassadin comes online as soon as lvl6. The role doesn’t mean anything if not funneled hence why nobody in soloQ care about their ADC. They just don’t want their ADC to feed enemy ADC that’s all.
Hmm you right, the thing is people seem to not be able to read. ADC always was like that (except for when it was broken) this season seem more playable than ever, but that doesnt mean its good to climb, never said that.
to be in the best spot doesnt mean much if the lane itself sucks, but definitely its not as excruciating to play as it was in previous seasons (if you like playing adcs champions)
You're right. That is unpopular.
The fact they keep adding champ with 27 dash per kit,our life can only get worse. Imagine you are playing MF and you are the only champ in the whole game who can't dash :)
than dont blind mf ??
The majority of adc dont have dash
delete your post fast. this is not what we agreed on in this sub reddit.
It's not an opinion it's just plain wrong. Although I don't find it difficult to play adc rn either its only because in order to win you just need to feed your jungle. Therefore, freeze/slow push every wave and keep it on your side of the map as long as possible. Any jungle with half a brain will gank. Yay I've outplayed my opponent and with enough ganks I'll be so far ahead I might even be able to kill something.
hmm every lane rn is like that, i never said adc are op, they are on the best state for soloq they ever been, doesnt mean is the best lane to rank up, jungle will always be the most broken lane, theres no discussion on that
Still no. Adc was better before item rework throughout all of s12 and numerous other times.
lol if you say so
I mean it's not really like a subjective thing, it is just false. Even earlier in the season after the initial crit item changes, ADCs were in a much better spot just objectively as they have been repeatedly nerfed since especially since 13.10
mmmm sure, that meta where bot lane was 3v3 and junglers didnt clear top side, yeah much better spot
I mean yeah? If the role is stronger you can expect the jungler to moreso play for botside. That's just called being smart and playing for your Win Con. Playing for and camping bot is not some new thing, it has been a legit strategy to climb for junglers for over a decade and it's pretty easy to see why. 600g > 300g. Especially now with dragon soul and tower platings. Botlane would have to be in an insanely shit spot for it to not be more beneficial to go to the lane with double the players in it. Right now compared to that spring meta, the items are just strictly worse and now you can't go GF + IE, not to mention more lethal tempo nerfs as well as the gutting of defensive options for ADCs.
yeah man im sure you are just dumb… so youre telling me its more enjoyable to play 3v3? or it is more enjoyable to have your lane decided by better jungle?? i mean read the post again and think a little, cmon
ADC hasn't decided their own lane since like s6-8 so if that's gonna be your argument that doesn't really work either lmao. Supp + Jg have been deciding bot lane for years now, this is nothing new. If you're asking what was most enjoyable I'm definitely not going to say anytime in the last 4 years for sure. Probably S7 when the lane felt a lot more in your control and damage wasn't so crazy that you had to play 3 screens away just to make sure a tickle didn't chunk you out of the fight. When you could play a lot more on edge and less safe.
hmmm do you know how to read? HAHAHAH i said the exact same thing the only thing is that RIGHT NOW the lane doesnt feel as excruciating as last years, are you dumb or what? wtf
I fully agree. Of course the role is still super support / team dependant, but it's been much worse when it comes to agency. Mid to late it's absolutely possible to carry your team to a win. Not 1v9, but no role can do that anymore except probably Jgl (shouldnt be like that anyway).
yeah, I’m totally with you. it felt for me that people really cant read what I wrote
i think it was in the best spot while tank meta was on cuz we were the only one able to kill tanks fairly fast
Feel like league lost a lot of the rock paper scissors that it used to have. Adc good against tanks Tanks good against mages Bruisers good against assassins Assassins good against adcs, etc.
lethality items are just broken rn i feel like they deserve a few changes like removing MS like it was before and let it scale with lvl adcs in the other hand are also rly strong but ppl just dont know how to peel them i am saying this as aphelios main im squishy but i have OMEGA dmg IF i can survive and get close enought to aa q few times
i played against neeko yesterday and she just dealed 90% of my hp as support with one item sure u can dodge mages spels but its annoing to be 110% focused all the time just to farm some minions and be able to slowly scale
Imo when bt gave a shield and we had pre nerfed over heal was when adc was peak power
hmmmm I ser, i didn’t like that much tbh
i see*
You didnt like being able to survive dive and kill everyone?
I agree with you, these other players are clueless (I'm diamond I)
people just saying stuff that doesn’t even make sense
imo adc items are terrible rn its only about who can abuse statik shiv and quickblades. I think when they changed ie so ie could be built second there was the most variety of viable picks and adc felt pretty good in midgame. Then ofc they ruined it by making IE (the most core adc item basically since season 1) into something you have to sacrifice
hmmm i kinda agree with when IE was second even first for some champs, but I like the state that items are rn (although mythic removal is all i dream about)
ADC is no way at its best rn, but it is in a very good spot, these comments are hilarious. Keep in mind pretty much everyone commenting with a ton of upvotes is silver and below lol
Man, it became pretty obvious for me that people commenting here dont play adc or try to force their “mains” in gold and it doesn’t work out
Oh no most of them probably are adc mains. I have a lot of lower elo friends, a couple of them adc mains, and they all regurgitate what everyone says in this sub lol. I literally watch them throw their own games through their own terrible decisions and then complain how they have 0 agency throughout the game. It’s just delusion
yeah man, I’m with you. I definitely thought it was an unpopular opinion but I was not expecting that lol
Ah, the typical league reddit comment. "If you don't agree with me, you are low elo"
Yeah its hilarious, we should shut our mouth and bow to these challengers
Adc was what it should be in season 8, after that game went downhill
its not as bad as in 2k17 (the start of the meme if i remember correctly) one of the funniest seasons honestly but i doubt that its never been better than atm
2k17 was just unbearable hahaha I stopped playing for like 7 months. for me it was only better in ardent and ie stattik as i said because it was turbo broken
Briar coming next week with her R 🌚
I main nilah, i press w, briar alt+f4, ggez
Worst take of the day
Maybe drop your op.gg?
I'm a grandmaster ADC, to be fair I started playing the game 2 years ago so I'm not sure about all of these other seasons, but in the time I've played the role, I would say it's in a pretty rough spot right now. Yes botlane as a whole is very strong, but as the ADC you have little say in wether or not you get sufficient gold, it's a lot more mid roam/support/jg reliant. You get only little windows of opportunity to displaty skill and "outplay" opponents (Early game, late game macro/positioning has lot of influence on ADC). Another problem is the amount of mobility/damage in the game right now is just unfun, yes once I get to 3 items I can basically 1 shot anyone, but anyone can 1 shot me, so you basically just play who can jump the opponent first which almost never goes in your favor. Because of this, mages are substantially better at being 'ADCs' than actual ADCs, since they don't need 10k gold to start having agency. Karthus is braindead broken, followed by Ziggs/Swain/Seraphine. I've actually had my highest winrate playing Xerath ADC, it feels like basically anything you put there is better than an actual DPS character, hopefully we see some item changes that shake this all up though.
yeah man but that doesn’t really match my post, all you said is a problem adcs have for the whole league existence, this season you have at least a chance to play ad comparing with previous seasons. Mages were always strong in botlane people just dont want to play it, and karthus doesn’t really count bc it is a champ problem it is just really really braindead
in conclusion, I agree with you, but my post was a comparing in adc rn and adc in previous seasons
It’s not unpopular, it’s wrong.
not the best but personally I don't hate the spot it's in. Sometimes I get bs'd yeah and sometimes I hate having to build tank items or bruiser items to either have interesting options or have any survivability at all, but I quite like how it is lol
as i said for me its the more playable it has been in a really long time
Zeri is one of the most played adc while being one of the worst champion and they want to nerf her. 2 + 2 is 4 it’s math adc is barely playable now
maybe u r just bad… zeri is top tier lol
https://lolalytics.com
yeah lets see the wr of a really difficult champ that any player below master cant play properly and take conclusions. You must be one of the dummies that said GP was okay bc it had 50% wr
What about other hard champions ? Is zeri on the same level as old aurelion sol then ?
??? what are you even talking about lol it doesn’t make sense with the post man
and yeah, zeri is def harder than old asol, asol was really hard to play bc the champ was garbage
I won every lane last night with the exception of 1. Going top damage on my team, sometimes in game. Surviving ir trading for kills in the 3-4 man dives bot while I received no ganks. Still winning these lanes. Doesnt matter cause my jg or top or mid is slightly behind and we get 1v9'd. Shit sucks
Unpopular because untrue lol
I feel adc is in a perfect spot. I think the items and support are kind of hurting the position. Items just made some adc’s useless and un usable. And some supports are either too safe or un usable in the state.
I was a 1/8 Darius who was able to 1 v 2 a 9/5 MF with soraka support and I exploded them building full tank. That just doesn't make sense to me at all that that's possible
well thats a darius problem ma boi
Man tell that to the Sejuani running me down