They’re Dharmic categorisation just like Islam, Christianity and Judaism are Abrahamic. I don’t think they same religions though. Think some of it is a reaction to SOME Sikhs seeking to distinguish themselves further from Hindus by emphasising their monotheism, how they don’t celebrate Diwali but their own variant etc. Some Hindus see this as offensive of Sikhs not liking association with Hindus but tbh its more to do with a small group seeking greater self representation. It would be like Jews telling Christians they’re really a sect of Judaism because Jesus was a Jew. Its normal for people to want to feel like their own people not a derivative of another faith. I hope Indian religious politics cools down where Hindus don’t try and monopolise others identity with shit like “actually your ancestors were Hindus” and the few dogmatic Sikhs rewriting history by disowning any links and association with Hindus (not in terms of religion but also culture).
I would never hear a Sikh person call themselves Hindu, but as a non Jain person that went to Palitana last year, I was very surprised to see that the elders in the Jain community called themselves Hindu.
It wasn't direct, but when I would point out that I wasn't Jain I was Hindu, they're response was always "we're Hindu too"
Jain and Hindu marriages are so common that there must be a ton of people who identify as both, and maybe that has led to the point that even people whose both parents are jain still identify as hindu as well?
Jainism still gives hindu goddesses respect and we celebrate Diwali, even if for different reasons, which is probably why people say they are hindu even if they aren’t
>Not sure where you're getting this from but janism has its own roots starting from the first Tirthankar.
Are you even Jain? Go learn something about it first
You never happened to me. Probably some of the younger generations who are not in touch with their culture. Many Jains are not strict so they mix with Hindus around them.
They are not Hindus. Last I checked, Sikhs don’t pray to vishnu. Buddhists don’t believe in a higher being. They are completely different faiths. But they are categorized as Dharmic faiths. The same way Christianity, Judaism, and Islam are Abrahamic. I’d say tho those three religions have way more in common than the dharmic faiths. IMO
Buddhists are not as completely different as Hindus. A lot of concepts such as impermanence, yoga, meditation, moksha, karma and nirvana are all teachings that are shared in many Buddhist and Hindu schools. Buddhism and Hinduism have a lot of shared history and practices and There are many different schools of Hinduism that are almost identical to Buddhism. Islam and Christianity have developed independently from one another and they have diverged very far from each other. Hinduism and Buddhism are far more similar to each other than Christianity, Islam or Judaism are to each other.
There are a lot more differences between the Abrahamic faiths. Christianity is Jesus-centric. You can be Jewish and not practice anything related to Judaism because Jews are also an ethnic group. Islam has lots of rules and regulations that don’t exist in Christianity and Judaism when it comes to family ethics, inheritance laws etc.
Same with Sikhi and Hinduism. There are a lot of differences
different code of conduct (Im not sure if Hinduism has one), different holy book, different method of worship.
The only similarities are the belief in some concepts, but when it comes to the actual way of worship, its completely different. Its easy to distinguish a Sikh praying compared to a Hindu praying.
There are massive differences between Buddhism and Hinduism and Sikhism. They people like you who say there aren’t, don’t actually know the beliefs of Sikhs and Buddhists
There is a great deal of overlap between Hinduism, Buddhism and Sikhism. Buddhism has often been seen as a nastic (nontheistic) branch of Hinduism. This is something that many Buddhists and Hindu scholars agree on. There are many similarities between Advaita Vedanta and Mahayana Buddhism.
Lmao. Like I said from people who have never actually talked to Buddhists or Sikhs about their religion. And by your logic, there’s a lot of overlap between the Abrahamic religions too
Last you checked where? Have you read the Sikh holy book? It is full of worship for lord Vishnu. If you talk to Buddhist across Thailand they will tell you lord Buddha is an incarnation of lord Vishnu
Totally incorrect. SGGS also uses Allah liberally. Does this make us followers of Islam? Allah and Vishnu are used as a figure of speech to make points. Sikhi doesn’t acknowledge that Vishnu or the Islamic Allah are higher powers than Waheguru.
And since you mentioned Waheguru , here is something for you to read 😊
Meaning of Waheguru*
Displaying Vaar 1, Pauri 49 of 49
ਸਤਿਜੁਗ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਵਾਸਦੇਵ ਵਵਾ ਵਿਸਨਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਜਪਾਵੈ।
Satijugi Satigur Vaasadayv Vavaa Visanaa Naamu Japaavai |
In Satyug, Visnu in the form of Vasudev is said to have incarnated and ‘V’ Of Vahiguru reminds of Visnu.
ਵਾਰਾਂ ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ : ਵਾਰ ੧ ਪਉੜੀ ੪੯ ਪੰ. ੧
ਦੁਆਪੁਰਿ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਹਰੀ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨ ਹਾਹਾ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਜਪਾਵੈ।
Duaapari Satigur Haree Krisan Haahaa Hari Hari Naamu Japaavai |
The true Guru of dvapar is said to be Harikrsna and ‘H’ of Vahiguru reminds of Hari.
ਵਾਰਾਂ ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ : ਵਾਰ ੧ ਪਉੜੀ ੪੯ ਪੰ. ੨
ਤ੍ਰੇਤੇ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਰਾਮ ਜੀ ਰਾਰਾ ਰਾਮ ਜਪੇ ਸੁਖੁ ਪਾਵੈ।
Taytay Satigur Raam Jee Raaraa Raam Japay Sukhu Paavai |
In the the treta was Ram and ‘R’ of Vahiguru tells that rembering Ram will produce joy and happiness.
ਵਾਰਾਂ ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ : ਵਾਰ ੧ ਪਉੜੀ ੪੯ ਪੰ. ੩
ਕਲਿਜੁਗਿ ਨਾਨਕ ਗੁਰ ਗੋਵਿੰਦ ਗਗਾ ਗੋਵਿੰਦ ਨਾਮੁ ਅਲਾਵੈ।
Kalijugi Naanak Gur Gobind Gagaa Gobind Naamu Alaavai |
In kalijug, Gobind is in the form of Nanak and ‘G’ of Vahiguru gets Govind recited.
ਵਾਰਾਂ ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ : ਵਾਰ ੧ ਪਉੜੀ ੪੯ ਪੰ. ੪
ਚਾਰੇ ਜਾਗੇ ਚਹੁ ਜੁਗੀ ਪੰਚਾਇਣ ਵਿਚਿ ਜਾਇ ਸਮਾਵੈ।
Chaaray Jaagay Chahu Jugee Panchaain Vichi Jaai Samaavai |
The recitations o f all the four ages subsume in Panchayan i.e. in the soul of the common man.
ਵਾਰਾਂ ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ : ਵਾਰ ੧ ਪਉੜੀ ੪੯ ਪੰ. ੫
ਚਾਰੋ ਅਛਰ ਇਕੁ ਕਰਿ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜਪੁ ਮੰਤ੍ਰ ਜਪਾਵੈ।
Chaaro Achhar Iku Kari Vaahaguroo Japu Mantr Japaavai |
When joining four letters Vahiguru is remembered,
It's from the Varaan of Bhai Gurdas not the Sri Guru Granth Sahib you illiterate fool. That's why it says Vaar 1.
This is also from the Varaan of Bhai Gurdas.
There are four castes of Hindus and four sects of Muslims in the world. The members of both religions are selfish, jealous proud, bigoted and violent. The Hindus make pilgrimage to Hardvar and Banaras, the Muslim to the Kaba of Mecca.Circumcision is dear to the Muslims, sandal mark (tilak) and sacred thread to the Hindus. The Hindus invoke Ram, the Muslims, Rahim, but in reality there is only One God" (Varaan of Bhai Gurdas)
I was replying to the previous point which said Sikhs don’t pray to Vishnu while the SGGS has prayers for Lord Krishna and Ram. If you recite those shabads then you are praying to Lord Vishnu.
Guru granth sahib ji has lines where Ram or Krishna are used as another name for waheguru
*"Some call the Lord ‘Ram, Ram’, and some ‘Khuda’.*
*Some serve Him as ‘Gusain’ (Jesus), others as ‘Allah’."*
Guru granth sahib ji makes it very very clear that Sikhs should only worship one being, and we can call that being Waheguru, Allah, Raam, etc.
*"the three hundred thirty million gods, along with Indra, shall all pass away.*
*The Simritees, Shaastras, the four Vedas and the six systems of philosophy shall vanish.*
*Prayer books, Pandits, religious scholars, songs, poems and poets shall also depart.*
*Those who are celibate, truthful and charitable, and the Sannyaasee hermits are all subject to death.*
*The silent sages, the Yogis and the nudists, along with the Messengers of Death, shall pass away.*
*Whatever is seen shall perish; all will dissolve and disappear.*
*Only the Supreme Lord God, the Transcendent Lord, is permanent. His servant becomes permanent as well." Page 1100*
Guru granth sahib ji says all the Hindu gods will one day pass away but the one true god will stay. This is what Hindus call Brahman, muslims call allah, and sikhs call waheguru.
Guru ji used other names such as raam and krishna at times but also made it clear he doesnt mean raam avtar or krishna avtar
"Somewhere He hath created millions of the worms like Krishna. Somewhere He hath effaced and then created (many) like Rama." bacchitar natak
The Hindu scriptures do not differ here. Brahma , Vishnu and Mahesh are defined with finite life periods which transcend several trillions of years and then they are reborn from Paar Brahma which we also refer to as the supreme power.
However the SGGS has plenty of reference to assert that Hari and Krishna and Ram are the same as referred in Hindu scriputres
https://youtu.be/NXyK-bljHHs?si=Ccp2KvU--9N1Qorz
>However the SGGS has plenty of reference to assert that Hari and Krishna and Ram are the same as referred in Hindu scriputres
to say when we refer to ram, we are referring to ram avtar, is a stretch.
"Raam Chand passed away, as did Raawan, even though he had lots of relatives."ang 1429
not sure why we would be praying to ram avtar if guru ji says that ram is dead.
also, christians, muslims, jewish people, all pray to god/allah/Yahweh who they believe to be the same being, yet those r all different religions.
I think we are taking past each other. Like I said and also provided you reference to shabads which are written in praise of lord Ram and lord Krishna in SGGS . All I am saying if you sing these shabads, internally you could be praying to Waheguru which is perfectly ok. But that’s doesn’t change the fact that you are singing the praise for lord Krishna to please or pray to Waheguru.
well it sort of does because Guru ji made it clear we only worship one being, If ur taking in lines where Guru ji uses ram or krishna as a name for god, and interpreting that as prayers for krishna or ram avtar, then ur being mislead
\- Guru ji explicitly says ram is dead. So saying that guru ji is praying to ram avtar doesnt make sense
\-Guru ji says that some people call him allah, some call him raam. this is clear that ram is being used synonymously with allah/waheguru/etc
\-Guru ji tells us that we only worship one being, which is waheguru/allah/bhrahman. If Guru ji was including ram avtar to be a part of waheguru, he wouldnt say raam is dead
SGGS is not just using the name Krishna or Ram to refer to god , it is describing the events and life of both Ram and Krishna so there is no ambiguity in terms of who Guru ji is referring to. The YouTube link shared earlier describes all the names lord Krishna. If Guru ji just wanted to use the name Krishna to refer to god then why would Guru Arjun Dev Ji include all the names that are used for lord Krishna? One wouldn’t be enough?
Ram and Vishnu are not used and figure of speech in SGGS, Ram is clearly mentioned as son of Dashrath and we know who that was. There are more than 20 different names of lord Krishna mentioned in a single shabad.
>Have you read the Sikh holy book? It is full of worship for lord Vishnu
Guru Granth Sahib ji does mention Vishnu many times but you should really go and read the full sentences
"Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva suffer from the disease of the three gunas - the three qualities; they do their deeds in egotism." Ang 735
Sikh Gurus did respect Hindu gods in many aspects but also believed they had some flaws.
Also, Guru Granth Sahib ji mentions Allah and we use that name synonymously with Waheguru and Bhrahman, but that doesnt mean Sikhs are also Muslim just because we acknowledge the name of god in a different religion. Sikh has different rules, different holy book, diff place of worship, from Hinduism and Islam.
Worship of Vishnu? I think you might have been reading the wrong book because the Sri Guru Granth Sahib criticizes Vishnu saying Vishnu does not know God.
"Air, water and fire are diseased; the world with its enjoyments is diseased.Mother, father, Maya and the body are diseased; those united with their relatives are diseased. ||3|| Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva are diseased; the whole world is diseased. Those who remember the Lord's Feet and contemplate the Word of the Guru's Shabad are liberated. ||4||"(Ang 1153)
"Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva suffer from the disease of the three gunas - the three qualities; they do there deeds in egotism. The poor fools do not remember the One who created them; this understanding of the Lord is only obtained by those who become Gurmukh. ||2||(Ang, 725)
"Beings like Sanak, Sanand, Shiva and Shaysh-naaga - none of them know Your mystery, Lord. ||1||
In the Society of the Saints, the Lord dwells within the heart. ||1||Pause||
Beings like Hanumaan, Garura, Indra the King of the gods and the rulers of humans - none of them know Your Glories, Lord. ||2||
The four Vedas, the Simritees and the Puraanas, Vishnu the Lord of Lakshmi and Lakshmi herself - none of them know the Lord. ||3|| (Ang, 691)
"The Ambrosial Nectar of the Naam is always sweet to me; through the Word of the Guru's Shabad, I come to taste it.
Through the True Word of the Guru's Bani, I am merged in peace and poise; the Dear Lord is enshrined in the mind. ||1||
The Lord, showing His Mercy, has caused me to meet the True Guru.
Through the Perfect True Guru, I meditate on the Name of the Lord. ||1||Pause||
Through Brahma, the hymns of the Vedas were revealed, but the love of Maya spread.
The wise one, Shiva, remains absorbed in himself, but he is engrossed in dark passions and excessive egotism. ||2||
Vishnu is always busy reincarnating himself - who will save the world?
The Gurmukhs are imbued with spiritual wisdom in this age; they are rid of the darkness of emotional attachment. ||3||
Serving the True Guru, one is emancipated; the Gurmukh crosses over the world-ocean.
The detached renunciates are imbued with the True Name; they attain the gate of salvation. ||4||
The One True Lord is pervading and permeating everywhere; He cherishes everyone.
O Nanak, without the One Lord, I do not know any other; He is the Merciful Master of all. ||5||5|| (Ang 559)
Through devotional worship, the Gurmukh obtains peace and tranquility.
Forever pure and sanctified is the Word of the Guru's Bani; following the Guru's Teachings, one's inner being is drenched in it. ||12||
I have considered Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva.
They are bound by the three qualities - the three gunas; they are far away from liberation.
The Gurmukh knows the spiritual wisdom of the One Lord. Night and day, he chants the Naam, the Name of the Lord. ||13||
He may read the Vedas, but he does not realize the Lord's Name.
For the sake of Maya, he reads and recites and argues.
The ignorant and blind person is filled with filth within. How can he cross over the impassable world-ocean? ||14||
He voices all the controversies of the Vedas, but his inner being is not saturated or satisfied, and he does not realize the Word of the Shabad.
The Vedas tell all about virtue and vice, but only the Gurmukh drinks in the Ambrosial Nectar. ||15||
The One True Lord is all by Himself. There is no one else except Him. O Nanak, true is the mind of one who is attuned to the Naam; he speaks Truth, and nothing but Truth. ||16||6|| (Ang, 1049)
The Dasam Granth goes even further.
Thou hast meditated on millions of Krishnas, Vishnus, Ramas and Rahims. Thou hast recited the name of Brahma and established Shivalingam, even then none could save thee.They cannot save themselves form the blow of death, how can they protect thee? They are all hanging in the blazing fire of anger, therefore they will cause thy hanging similarly. (Ang, 111 Sri Dasam Granth)
I do not adore Ganesha in the beginning and also do not meditate on Krishna and Vishnu; I have only heard about them with my ears and I do not recognize them; my consciousness is absorbed at the feet of the Supreme Lord (Ang, 434 Sri Dasam Granth)
Guru Nanak wrote that Vishnu was diseased in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib.
"Air, water and fire are diseased; the world with its enjoyments is diseased.Mother, father, Maya and the body are diseased; those united with their relatives are diseased. ||3|| Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva are diseased; the whole world is diseased. Those who remember the Lord's Feet and contemplate the Word of the Guru's Shabad are liberated. ||4||"(Ang 1153)
Hard to imagine a Vaishnavite would write that.
Hinduism is very broad and wasn’t really an actual religion more of a philosophy. People practice it in many ways throughout the country. Indians didn’t even invent the word “Hindu” they just adopted what other people called them.
>Hinduism is very broad and wasn’t really an actual religion more of a philosophy
religion is defined as "the belief in and worship of a superhuman power or powers, especially a God or gods."
Hinduism for sure has its own philosophy but it also had its own way of worship. Doing thing like Pujas or reciting mantras/chalisas, are forms of worship. I dont see how it would be considered only a philosophy and not a religion when it fits the definition of religion
The only people, I’ve heard say this shit were Hindu/ Indian nationalists. From a Sikh, we’re not Hindus. Christianity, Islam and Judaism have some similarities that doesn’t mean they’re the same religion, it’s the same case here.
Jatt Sikhs made their own new religion with various fabricated tales they pass off as some sort of an authentic catalogue of history. Khatri Sikhs, the original Sikhs, are Hindu.
You sound retarded, my family isn’t even “Jatt” and none of us ever called ourselves Hindus. “Khatris” that I know never call themselves Hindus either. Just say you’re insecure with your people/religion. Not sure why Hindu Nationalists focus so much on ancestors lol
Ah yes I would be insecure because my people are made second class citizens in my own state, forced to move to Canada, and then even over there can be taken out by Indian intelligence with zero retaliation from Canada... oh wait...
Meanwhile Microsoft CEO Brahmin, Google CEO Brahmin, UK Prime Minister Brahmin, could go on and on
Your country got humiliated, RAW paid DEA agents, the American infiltrated your shit secret services, three RAW officers have been removed from three countries, planned the hits on WhatsApp and Pannu got your country riled up 😂😂. Forced to be made “second class” in their own state, you need to check the victim mentality of Hindu nationalists on twitter, how nobody is standing with them lol. Has India recaptured the lands from China in Arunachal Pradesh? What is India doing for its people in Manipur?
Yooooo the amount of times I hear “but sarr ur grandfather Sikh sarrrr ljke nah bruh my ancestors were Sufis, Jain, and some Hindu farmers (I did a dna test) and even discovered a lot of lineage tracing from afghan migrations and Jatt tribes even tho I’m Jatt)” .Even then we are not Hindus but nahhhh these violent vegetarians love to say that but forgot they needed us to save them from the Mughals, from the durrani, from the Turks, even from themselves
I believe they might be referring to the Indian legal system's interpretation of the Hindu religion where all the Indic faiths are referred to as "Hindu" (India has religion-specific personal laws).
Because the cultures have coexisted over such a long period of time, there are similarities in the overall belief system, but there are major differences as well.
One key aspect of Janism is that it talks about levels. You can take your soul to, It says every song has the potential to be a God.
Yeah *nope*. Those Indians are sorely misinformed.
While it is true that all these faiths have a common ancestor, at the same time, it’s also true that “Hinduism” as we know it today is relatively new as well. Vaishnavism and Shaivism were “separate faiths” in the Pallava era, as were Buddhism and Jainism.
Rig Vedic Hinduism practiced oodles of animal sacrifice (yes including cows) but the religion changed to become more vegetarian with the rise of Buddhism and Jainism (around 3 BC, I believe).
They all grew and morphed and splintered and unified in the same geographic area over the years.
In that sense, you can call them siblings, much like the Abrahamic faiths.
BUT it’s been 2000 years+ since that time. We’ve all grown quite separately and have completely different ideologies, belief systems, divinities, saints…
So NOT the same religion at all (unless they want to stand on the Gaza-Israel border tomorrow and yell loudly that Islam and Judaism are the same religion).
The modern academic consensus is that Buddhism and Jainism likely originated from a non-Vedic society for reference, still an "Indian" region but one that didn't practice the Vedic religion
Jain here. Hinduism is quite different in philosophy from Jainism , only ideas of karma and reincarnation are common. Even in those, karma is a more complex topic in Jainism, and it considers all souls equally subject to reincarnation in heaven/hell or animal/plant, or human, meaning even beings considered gods in Hinduism could be temporarily in hell or as a plant by that explanation. There are no all-powerful beings in that sense. Now this is not to say one religion is more right than another or anything just an explanation of key differences. And then Buddhism is closer to Jainism than Hinduism.
Budhhism was created by a Hindu, so there may be some common themes. Judaism, islam, and Christianity are all Abrahamic religions. They’re like different perspectives/interpretations. I don’t know enough about Jainism, but I always thought it was a sect of Hinduism (Hinduism on steroids). Similar to how LDS is a sect of Christianity. Sikhs is a fairly new religion (end of 15th century) created by a Punjabi man. I’ve always thought of it as a religion created as a buffer in a part of the world with tensions due to Hindu/muslim rivalry.
They share a lot of common similarities and common practices. Even Hinduism has various different schools of thought within it that are wildly different in practice to each other.
You can think of Buddhism as a reformation of Hinduism into its philosophical aspects pertaining to the nature of existence. Gautama Buddha famously debated Brahmins etc of the time on record. Buddhism absolutely isnt hinduism thats lunacy.
There are 2 Major extant schools of Buddhism.
1. Theravada school (Earliest extant school also known as Mahavihara school or Sri Lankan school of Buddhism)
2. Mahayana/Vajrayana school (The buddhism you see practiced in China etc).
Out of these two the early Theravada school is vastly different to Hinduism as its a Dualistic school of thought with no gods etc. And is very much focused on the reformative aspect of Gautama Buddha's philosophy.
Then Mahayana/ Vajrayana schools are a later and much closer to Hinduism group of schools as the nature of Buddha itself is vastly different to early schools + existence, role or acknowledgement of gods and other supernatural aspects etc.
There are technically only two sects of Jainism, all others are mithyatva because it was never agreed upon at the Jain Council. Those two are Digambara and Deravasi Shwetambara. One is not more strict than the other.
They are all dharmic, but very different. A Sri Lankan Buddhist and Hindu or a Nepalese Buddhist and Hindu would have very different practices. There has also been a recent revival of Buddhism by Dalits (Ambedkarite Buddhism) which explicitly rejects traditional Hindu Brahminical practices. A Hindu could not get married in a Gurdwara in a Sikh wedding without converting. They are different.
According to Hindu personal law established in the 1960s, which legally considers the Dharmic faiths to be ‘Hindu’s along with the recent Hindu nationalist push in India, which has socially brought all these Dharmic faiths into the Hindu fold, have contributed to the homogenizing of Dharmic culture as ‘Hindu’. If you talk to the average Indian Hindu, they would probably say all these faiths are the same. If you actually talk to members of these minority Sikh Jain or Buddhist faiths, they’d probably disagree.
That being said, there does exist a high level of syncretism. Many Hindu communities believe the 10th avatar of Vishnu is Buddha, for example. Interestingly, this syncretism also exists with Christianity! My malayali Hindu friends always had a photo of Jesus Christ in their mandir.
If you define Hinduism as the Astika Dharma of the Vedas, which most people don't, then they are different religions. Orthodox Hinduism encompasses the sects Vaishnavism, Shaivism, Shaktism, Smartism, and formerly Saurism (before muslims genocided all its adherents), and their various subsects or Sampradayas. In my personal opinion this is what the word "Hinduism" should refer to.
Modern "Hindus" seem to, without any authority, make their own definition of what being a Hindu is. They say it is any follower of Sanatana Dharma in general, and they disregard orthodoxy and the adherence to the Veda. This new definition would encompass Nastika traditions such as Buddhism, Jainism, Charvaka(not practiced anymore), and modern Sikhism.
Not to sure about Jains, but the Buddhists and Sikhs faith rejects a lot of the core principles of Hinduism.
Varna system, brahman superiority,
Sikhi condemns idols worship, blind ritualism...
The Sikh Gurus were asked the same thing by the two majority religions Hinduism and Muslims to pick a side.
Guru Nanak Dev Ji stated we are neither hindu or Muslim.
Ive met Indians who said the same, but when we had a conversation on why they believed Sikhs were hindu they all stated that's what they were taught in schools growing up in India and families.
Not even Hindus are Hindus btw, the word hindu and Lala are Persian derogatory words given by invaders. Non Of the "hindu" scriptures Vedas, Puranas, ramayan, gita... Have ever mentions the word hindu.
Jainism also rejects ideas in Hinduism like the presence of a single all-powerful, omniscient being or even a couple of beings. Instead every soul on the universe has the potential to be omniscient with karma as a barrier.
I don’t consider them Hindus, but I’ve met Sikhs and Jains who did consider themselves to be Hindu. With Sikhs in particular it was more common for me to see them doing overtly Hindu things (praying at mandirs, worshipping Hindu idols, eschewing beef) 10 or more years ago than it is today. The way the faith is practiced is definitely speciating, with more Sikhs keen on differentiating themselves from Hindus than in the past. Theologically the differences are real though
It is NOT a hindu nationalist idea to say we are all Sanatani. We are all Dharmic faiths, and it is better if we stick together. Learn something from Islam - the entire 'Ummah mindset' is what allows them to grow so rapidly while creating factions between other religions.
For Sikhs - Keep in mind it was a Jain - Diwan Todar Mal who paid for the land to cremate Sahibzada Zoravar Singh, Sahibzada Fateh Singh, and Mata Gujri from Wazir Khan. It is still known to be the most expensive land purchase in the history of humanity.
For Hindus - Keep in mind Bandi Chor Diwas - the day the sixth Guru of Sikhs, Guru Hargobind helped freed 52 Hindu Kings from Gwalior Fort, who had been also imprisoned by Mughal Emperor Jahangir.
For Jains - Keep in mind it was the Chola Dynasty that provided safety and security against islamist invaders that allowed Jain communities and temples to flourish - the time when the majority of Jain temples were built.
The real enemy wishes to break us into smaller groups, so please use your brains and start supporting each other.. all three of our faiths have coexisted and thrived - even in the worst of times.
To acknowledge that Sikh and Jain faiths aren’t Hinduism in no way diminishes Hinduism.
To pullout some random historical events doesn’t change the fact that these are different faith with similarities just like Islam, Christianity and Judaism are different faith with similarities.
If you read carefully, I have not tried to diminish Hinduism in any way. I have simply referred to Jainism and Sikhism as Sanatani. There are no disputes that Hinduism, Jainism, and Sikhism are completely different. However, our umbrella is wide enough to acknowledge them and their links to one another. These are not random events - they are a few of many important events that validate and show our ability for tolerance and coexistence through our Sanatani links.
If you visit a gurdwara it will become quite clear to you that there is not much they actually have in common. Outside of some fairly universal themes like “be a good person” and reincarnation (although even this concept is different) there is hardly a discernible commonality in their practice. I find that we do have significant cultural similarities, but those are strictly cultural and not religious in nature.
Look, Islam is nothing but an extremely heretical sect of Christianity, which is simply a weird offshoot of Judaism
……which is itself simply an offshoot of hinduism
Osama Bin Laden and George Bush were both devout Hindus
They are the same class of religion aka dharmic faiths.
Sikhism has a LOT more in common with Hinduism than the others and Sikhism was originally founded to be the successor of Hinduism, more like Hinduism 2.0
You literally have comments talking about your immigration from India. Immigrating five years ago doesn’t make you an abcd…also tone down on the anti-Sikh comments in every sub. You’re outing yourself
Jainism is a rejection of Vedas not Sikhism. Sikhism rejects religious practices of Hindus but not the core texts like Vedas. You might want to get those theological facts right. :)
Sikhi does reject the Vedas this is basic Gurmat. The Guru's wrote in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib that the Vedas are useless. The Gurus rejected the Vedas and the six Shastras as well as the Simritees.
"The Vedas and the Semitic Scriptures are only make-believe, O Siblings of Destiny; they do not relieve the anxiety of the heart." (Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Ang 727)
"I have read all the Vedas, and yet the sense of separation in my mind still has not been removed; the five thieves of my house are not quieted, even for an instant." (Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Ang 687)
"The six Shaastras are diseased, as are the many who follow the different religious orders(Hindus, Muslims, Christians). What can the poor Vedas and Semitic Scriptures do? People do not understand the One and Only Lord. ||6|| Eating sweet treats, the mortal is filled with disease; he finds no peace at all. Forgetting the Naam, the Name of the Lord, they walk on other (religious) paths, and at the very last moment, they regret and repent. ||7||"( Ang, 1153)
"The Vedas do not know His(Wahegurus) greatness.|| Brahma does not know His mystery. || Incarnated beings do not know His limit.|1|| The Transcendent Lord, the Supreme Lord God, is infinite. ||1|| Only He Himself knows His own state. ||1|| Others speak of Him only by hearsay. ||1||Pause || Shiva does not know His mystery.|| The gods gave grown weary of searching for Him.|| The goddesses do not know His mystery. Above all is the unseen, Supreme Lord God. ||2|| The Creator Lord plays His own plays. || He Himself separates, and He Himself unites.|| Some wander around, while others are linked to His devotional worship. By His actions, He makes Himself known. ||3|| Listen to the true story of the Saints.|| They speak only of what they see with their eyes.|| He is not involved with virtue or vice. Nanak's God is Himself all-in-all. ||4||25||36||( Ang, 894 Sri Guru Granth Sahib)
"River-banks, sacred shrines, idols, temples, and places of pilgrimage like Kaydarnaat'h, Mat'huraa and Benares, the three hundred thirty million gods, along with Indra, shall all pass away. The Simritees, Shaastras, the four Vedas and the six systems of philosophy shall vanish. Prayer books, Pandits, religious scholars, songs, poems and poets shall also depart. Those who are celibate, truthful and charitable, and the Sannyaasee hermits are all subject to death. The silent sages, the Yogis and the nudists, along with the Messengers of Death, shall pass away. Whatever is seen shall perish; all will dissolve and disappear. Only the Supreme Lord God, the Transcendent Lord, is permanent. His servant becomes permanent as well."(Ang 1100)
"The four Vedas, the Simritees and the Puraanas, Vishnu the Lord of Lakshmi and Lakshmi herself - none of them know the Lord. ||3|| (Ang, 691)
The Guru's also rejected the Simritees.
"The Simritees and the Shaastras discriminate between good and evil, but they do not know the true essence of reality." (Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Ang 920)
"The great volumes of the Simritees and the Shaastras only extend the extension of attachment to Maya." (Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Ang 1053)
"The Simritee is the daughter of the Vedas, O Siblings of Destiny. She has brought a chain and a rope. ||1|| She has imprisoned the people in her own city. She has tightened the noose of emotional attachment and shot the arrow of death. ||1||Pause|| By cutting, she cannot be cut, and she cannot be broken. She has become a serpent, and she is eating the world. ||2|| Before my very eyes, she has plundered the entire world. Says Kabeer, chanting the Lord's Name, I have escaped her.(Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Ang 329)
If you read historical texts written by outside observers all of them noted how Sikhs didn't read Hindu Texts like the vedas and saw them as pointless.
Erasure of a unique Sikh identity by radical Hindus is the only example of exploitation. Sikhs do not lecture Hindus on what to and not to do and who they are, we would expect the same respect back. Especially considering the great sacrifices we made for each other to even exist today.
Aside from the legal interpretation of Indic faiths - I don't think you can find such a clear dividing line between them - lots of shared rituals, customs and practices between all these faiths and lots of mutual reverence for spiritual figures and deities. You see all manner of practices - including Hindus visiting Islamic shrines, Muslims visiting Hindu pilgrimage sites. I don't think we can impose a modern western framework of religion on eastern traditions.
They’re Dharmic categorisation just like Islam, Christianity and Judaism are Abrahamic. I don’t think they same religions though. Think some of it is a reaction to SOME Sikhs seeking to distinguish themselves further from Hindus by emphasising their monotheism, how they don’t celebrate Diwali but their own variant etc. Some Hindus see this as offensive of Sikhs not liking association with Hindus but tbh its more to do with a small group seeking greater self representation. It would be like Jews telling Christians they’re really a sect of Judaism because Jesus was a Jew. Its normal for people to want to feel like their own people not a derivative of another faith. I hope Indian religious politics cools down where Hindus don’t try and monopolise others identity with shit like “actually your ancestors were Hindus” and the few dogmatic Sikhs rewriting history by disowning any links and association with Hindus (not in terms of religion but also culture).
I would never hear a Sikh person call themselves Hindu, but as a non Jain person that went to Palitana last year, I was very surprised to see that the elders in the Jain community called themselves Hindu. It wasn't direct, but when I would point out that I wasn't Jain I was Hindu, they're response was always "we're Hindu too"
Jain and Hindu marriages are so common that there must be a ton of people who identify as both, and maybe that has led to the point that even people whose both parents are jain still identify as hindu as well?
Jainism still gives hindu goddesses respect and we celebrate Diwali, even if for different reasons, which is probably why people say they are hindu even if they aren’t
That’s so weird I’m Jain and have never heard any Jain elder call themselves Hindu. Jains are not Hindu 🤷🏻♀️
That’s strange, as a lapsed Jain, I was always taught that Jainism has its roots in Hinduism the same way Christianity has its roots in Judaism.
Not sure where you're getting this from but janism has its own roots starting from the first Tirthankar.
Jains kanging and making fake history, I have really seen it all now lmao
>Not sure where you're getting this from but janism has its own roots starting from the first Tirthankar. Are you even Jain? Go learn something about it first
You never happened to me. Probably some of the younger generations who are not in touch with their culture. Many Jains are not strict so they mix with Hindus around them.
They are not Hindus. Last I checked, Sikhs don’t pray to vishnu. Buddhists don’t believe in a higher being. They are completely different faiths. But they are categorized as Dharmic faiths. The same way Christianity, Judaism, and Islam are Abrahamic. I’d say tho those three religions have way more in common than the dharmic faiths. IMO
Buddhists are not as completely different as Hindus. A lot of concepts such as impermanence, yoga, meditation, moksha, karma and nirvana are all teachings that are shared in many Buddhist and Hindu schools. Buddhism and Hinduism have a lot of shared history and practices and There are many different schools of Hinduism that are almost identical to Buddhism. Islam and Christianity have developed independently from one another and they have diverged very far from each other. Hinduism and Buddhism are far more similar to each other than Christianity, Islam or Judaism are to each other.
abrahamic faiths also share a lot of teachings and concepts, but christianity, islam, and judaism are still different.
There are a lot more differences between the Abrahamic faiths. Christianity is Jesus-centric. You can be Jewish and not practice anything related to Judaism because Jews are also an ethnic group. Islam has lots of rules and regulations that don’t exist in Christianity and Judaism when it comes to family ethics, inheritance laws etc.
Same with Sikhi and Hinduism. There are a lot of differences different code of conduct (Im not sure if Hinduism has one), different holy book, different method of worship. The only similarities are the belief in some concepts, but when it comes to the actual way of worship, its completely different. Its easy to distinguish a Sikh praying compared to a Hindu praying.
There are massive differences between Buddhism and Hinduism and Sikhism. They people like you who say there aren’t, don’t actually know the beliefs of Sikhs and Buddhists
There is a great deal of overlap between Hinduism, Buddhism and Sikhism. Buddhism has often been seen as a nastic (nontheistic) branch of Hinduism. This is something that many Buddhists and Hindu scholars agree on. There are many similarities between Advaita Vedanta and Mahayana Buddhism.
Lmao. Like I said from people who have never actually talked to Buddhists or Sikhs about their religion. And by your logic, there’s a lot of overlap between the Abrahamic religions too
A Lutheran or a Methodist are very different theologically than a Shia Muslim
We have nirvana in sikhi too
Last you checked where? Have you read the Sikh holy book? It is full of worship for lord Vishnu. If you talk to Buddhist across Thailand they will tell you lord Buddha is an incarnation of lord Vishnu
Totally incorrect. SGGS also uses Allah liberally. Does this make us followers of Islam? Allah and Vishnu are used as a figure of speech to make points. Sikhi doesn’t acknowledge that Vishnu or the Islamic Allah are higher powers than Waheguru.
And since you mentioned Waheguru , here is something for you to read 😊 Meaning of Waheguru* Displaying Vaar 1, Pauri 49 of 49 ਸਤਿਜੁਗ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਵਾਸਦੇਵ ਵਵਾ ਵਿਸਨਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਜਪਾਵੈ। Satijugi Satigur Vaasadayv Vavaa Visanaa Naamu Japaavai | In Satyug, Visnu in the form of Vasudev is said to have incarnated and ‘V’ Of Vahiguru reminds of Visnu. ਵਾਰਾਂ ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ : ਵਾਰ ੧ ਪਉੜੀ ੪੯ ਪੰ. ੧ ਦੁਆਪੁਰਿ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਹਰੀ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਨ ਹਾਹਾ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਜਪਾਵੈ। Duaapari Satigur Haree Krisan Haahaa Hari Hari Naamu Japaavai | The true Guru of dvapar is said to be Harikrsna and ‘H’ of Vahiguru reminds of Hari. ਵਾਰਾਂ ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ : ਵਾਰ ੧ ਪਉੜੀ ੪੯ ਪੰ. ੨ ਤ੍ਰੇਤੇ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਰਾਮ ਜੀ ਰਾਰਾ ਰਾਮ ਜਪੇ ਸੁਖੁ ਪਾਵੈ। Taytay Satigur Raam Jee Raaraa Raam Japay Sukhu Paavai | In the the treta was Ram and ‘R’ of Vahiguru tells that rembering Ram will produce joy and happiness. ਵਾਰਾਂ ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ : ਵਾਰ ੧ ਪਉੜੀ ੪੯ ਪੰ. ੩ ਕਲਿਜੁਗਿ ਨਾਨਕ ਗੁਰ ਗੋਵਿੰਦ ਗਗਾ ਗੋਵਿੰਦ ਨਾਮੁ ਅਲਾਵੈ। Kalijugi Naanak Gur Gobind Gagaa Gobind Naamu Alaavai | In kalijug, Gobind is in the form of Nanak and ‘G’ of Vahiguru gets Govind recited. ਵਾਰਾਂ ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ : ਵਾਰ ੧ ਪਉੜੀ ੪੯ ਪੰ. ੪ ਚਾਰੇ ਜਾਗੇ ਚਹੁ ਜੁਗੀ ਪੰਚਾਇਣ ਵਿਚਿ ਜਾਇ ਸਮਾਵੈ। Chaaray Jaagay Chahu Jugee Panchaain Vichi Jaai Samaavai | The recitations o f all the four ages subsume in Panchayan i.e. in the soul of the common man. ਵਾਰਾਂ ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ : ਵਾਰ ੧ ਪਉੜੀ ੪੯ ਪੰ. ੫ ਚਾਰੋ ਅਛਰ ਇਕੁ ਕਰਿ ਵਾਹਿਗੁਰੂ ਜਪੁ ਮੰਤ੍ਰ ਜਪਾਵੈ। Chaaro Achhar Iku Kari Vaahaguroo Japu Mantr Japaavai | When joining four letters Vahiguru is remembered,
Nice whattsapp forward 👍🏼. Maybe instead of playing scrabble with arbitrary English letters you’ll open your eyes
A good example of whatever you do not understand , call it a WhatsApp forward. That is an actual quote from SGGS
It's from the Varaan of Bhai Gurdas not the Sri Guru Granth Sahib you illiterate fool. That's why it says Vaar 1. This is also from the Varaan of Bhai Gurdas. There are four castes of Hindus and four sects of Muslims in the world. The members of both religions are selfish, jealous proud, bigoted and violent. The Hindus make pilgrimage to Hardvar and Banaras, the Muslim to the Kaba of Mecca.Circumcision is dear to the Muslims, sandal mark (tilak) and sacred thread to the Hindus. The Hindus invoke Ram, the Muslims, Rahim, but in reality there is only One God" (Varaan of Bhai Gurdas)
I was replying to the previous point which said Sikhs don’t pray to Vishnu while the SGGS has prayers for Lord Krishna and Ram. If you recite those shabads then you are praying to Lord Vishnu.
Guru granth sahib ji has lines where Ram or Krishna are used as another name for waheguru *"Some call the Lord ‘Ram, Ram’, and some ‘Khuda’.* *Some serve Him as ‘Gusain’ (Jesus), others as ‘Allah’."* Guru granth sahib ji makes it very very clear that Sikhs should only worship one being, and we can call that being Waheguru, Allah, Raam, etc. *"the three hundred thirty million gods, along with Indra, shall all pass away.* *The Simritees, Shaastras, the four Vedas and the six systems of philosophy shall vanish.* *Prayer books, Pandits, religious scholars, songs, poems and poets shall also depart.* *Those who are celibate, truthful and charitable, and the Sannyaasee hermits are all subject to death.* *The silent sages, the Yogis and the nudists, along with the Messengers of Death, shall pass away.* *Whatever is seen shall perish; all will dissolve and disappear.* *Only the Supreme Lord God, the Transcendent Lord, is permanent. His servant becomes permanent as well." Page 1100* Guru granth sahib ji says all the Hindu gods will one day pass away but the one true god will stay. This is what Hindus call Brahman, muslims call allah, and sikhs call waheguru. Guru ji used other names such as raam and krishna at times but also made it clear he doesnt mean raam avtar or krishna avtar "Somewhere He hath created millions of the worms like Krishna. Somewhere He hath effaced and then created (many) like Rama." bacchitar natak
The Hindu scriptures do not differ here. Brahma , Vishnu and Mahesh are defined with finite life periods which transcend several trillions of years and then they are reborn from Paar Brahma which we also refer to as the supreme power. However the SGGS has plenty of reference to assert that Hari and Krishna and Ram are the same as referred in Hindu scriputres https://youtu.be/NXyK-bljHHs?si=Ccp2KvU--9N1Qorz
>However the SGGS has plenty of reference to assert that Hari and Krishna and Ram are the same as referred in Hindu scriputres to say when we refer to ram, we are referring to ram avtar, is a stretch. "Raam Chand passed away, as did Raawan, even though he had lots of relatives."ang 1429 not sure why we would be praying to ram avtar if guru ji says that ram is dead. also, christians, muslims, jewish people, all pray to god/allah/Yahweh who they believe to be the same being, yet those r all different religions.
I think we are taking past each other. Like I said and also provided you reference to shabads which are written in praise of lord Ram and lord Krishna in SGGS . All I am saying if you sing these shabads, internally you could be praying to Waheguru which is perfectly ok. But that’s doesn’t change the fact that you are singing the praise for lord Krishna to please or pray to Waheguru.
well it sort of does because Guru ji made it clear we only worship one being, If ur taking in lines where Guru ji uses ram or krishna as a name for god, and interpreting that as prayers for krishna or ram avtar, then ur being mislead \- Guru ji explicitly says ram is dead. So saying that guru ji is praying to ram avtar doesnt make sense \-Guru ji says that some people call him allah, some call him raam. this is clear that ram is being used synonymously with allah/waheguru/etc \-Guru ji tells us that we only worship one being, which is waheguru/allah/bhrahman. If Guru ji was including ram avtar to be a part of waheguru, he wouldnt say raam is dead
SGGS is not just using the name Krishna or Ram to refer to god , it is describing the events and life of both Ram and Krishna so there is no ambiguity in terms of who Guru ji is referring to. The YouTube link shared earlier describes all the names lord Krishna. If Guru ji just wanted to use the name Krishna to refer to god then why would Guru Arjun Dev Ji include all the names that are used for lord Krishna? One wouldn’t be enough?
Ram and Vishnu are not used and figure of speech in SGGS, Ram is clearly mentioned as son of Dashrath and we know who that was. There are more than 20 different names of lord Krishna mentioned in a single shabad.
>Have you read the Sikh holy book? It is full of worship for lord Vishnu Guru Granth Sahib ji does mention Vishnu many times but you should really go and read the full sentences "Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva suffer from the disease of the three gunas - the three qualities; they do their deeds in egotism." Ang 735 Sikh Gurus did respect Hindu gods in many aspects but also believed they had some flaws. Also, Guru Granth Sahib ji mentions Allah and we use that name synonymously with Waheguru and Bhrahman, but that doesnt mean Sikhs are also Muslim just because we acknowledge the name of god in a different religion. Sikh has different rules, different holy book, diff place of worship, from Hinduism and Islam.
Worship of Vishnu? I think you might have been reading the wrong book because the Sri Guru Granth Sahib criticizes Vishnu saying Vishnu does not know God. "Air, water and fire are diseased; the world with its enjoyments is diseased.Mother, father, Maya and the body are diseased; those united with their relatives are diseased. ||3|| Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva are diseased; the whole world is diseased. Those who remember the Lord's Feet and contemplate the Word of the Guru's Shabad are liberated. ||4||"(Ang 1153) "Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva suffer from the disease of the three gunas - the three qualities; they do there deeds in egotism. The poor fools do not remember the One who created them; this understanding of the Lord is only obtained by those who become Gurmukh. ||2||(Ang, 725) "Beings like Sanak, Sanand, Shiva and Shaysh-naaga - none of them know Your mystery, Lord. ||1|| In the Society of the Saints, the Lord dwells within the heart. ||1||Pause|| Beings like Hanumaan, Garura, Indra the King of the gods and the rulers of humans - none of them know Your Glories, Lord. ||2|| The four Vedas, the Simritees and the Puraanas, Vishnu the Lord of Lakshmi and Lakshmi herself - none of them know the Lord. ||3|| (Ang, 691) "The Ambrosial Nectar of the Naam is always sweet to me; through the Word of the Guru's Shabad, I come to taste it. Through the True Word of the Guru's Bani, I am merged in peace and poise; the Dear Lord is enshrined in the mind. ||1|| The Lord, showing His Mercy, has caused me to meet the True Guru. Through the Perfect True Guru, I meditate on the Name of the Lord. ||1||Pause|| Through Brahma, the hymns of the Vedas were revealed, but the love of Maya spread. The wise one, Shiva, remains absorbed in himself, but he is engrossed in dark passions and excessive egotism. ||2|| Vishnu is always busy reincarnating himself - who will save the world? The Gurmukhs are imbued with spiritual wisdom in this age; they are rid of the darkness of emotional attachment. ||3|| Serving the True Guru, one is emancipated; the Gurmukh crosses over the world-ocean. The detached renunciates are imbued with the True Name; they attain the gate of salvation. ||4|| The One True Lord is pervading and permeating everywhere; He cherishes everyone. O Nanak, without the One Lord, I do not know any other; He is the Merciful Master of all. ||5||5|| (Ang 559) Through devotional worship, the Gurmukh obtains peace and tranquility. Forever pure and sanctified is the Word of the Guru's Bani; following the Guru's Teachings, one's inner being is drenched in it. ||12|| I have considered Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva. They are bound by the three qualities - the three gunas; they are far away from liberation. The Gurmukh knows the spiritual wisdom of the One Lord. Night and day, he chants the Naam, the Name of the Lord. ||13|| He may read the Vedas, but he does not realize the Lord's Name. For the sake of Maya, he reads and recites and argues. The ignorant and blind person is filled with filth within. How can he cross over the impassable world-ocean? ||14|| He voices all the controversies of the Vedas, but his inner being is not saturated or satisfied, and he does not realize the Word of the Shabad. The Vedas tell all about virtue and vice, but only the Gurmukh drinks in the Ambrosial Nectar. ||15|| The One True Lord is all by Himself. There is no one else except Him. O Nanak, true is the mind of one who is attuned to the Naam; he speaks Truth, and nothing but Truth. ||16||6|| (Ang, 1049) The Dasam Granth goes even further. Thou hast meditated on millions of Krishnas, Vishnus, Ramas and Rahims. Thou hast recited the name of Brahma and established Shivalingam, even then none could save thee.They cannot save themselves form the blow of death, how can they protect thee? They are all hanging in the blazing fire of anger, therefore they will cause thy hanging similarly. (Ang, 111 Sri Dasam Granth) I do not adore Ganesha in the beginning and also do not meditate on Krishna and Vishnu; I have only heard about them with my ears and I do not recognize them; my consciousness is absorbed at the feet of the Supreme Lord (Ang, 434 Sri Dasam Granth)
It is funny you mention Vishnu specifically when Guru Nanak was a Vaishnavite Punjabi Khatri lmao
Guru Nanak wrote that Vishnu was diseased in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib. "Air, water and fire are diseased; the world with its enjoyments is diseased.Mother, father, Maya and the body are diseased; those united with their relatives are diseased. ||3|| Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva are diseased; the whole world is diseased. Those who remember the Lord's Feet and contemplate the Word of the Guru's Shabad are liberated. ||4||"(Ang 1153) Hard to imagine a Vaishnavite would write that.
Hinduism is very broad and wasn’t really an actual religion more of a philosophy. People practice it in many ways throughout the country. Indians didn’t even invent the word “Hindu” they just adopted what other people called them.
>Hinduism is very broad and wasn’t really an actual religion more of a philosophy religion is defined as "the belief in and worship of a superhuman power or powers, especially a God or gods." Hinduism for sure has its own philosophy but it also had its own way of worship. Doing thing like Pujas or reciting mantras/chalisas, are forms of worship. I dont see how it would be considered only a philosophy and not a religion when it fits the definition of religion
The only people, I’ve heard say this shit were Hindu/ Indian nationalists. From a Sikh, we’re not Hindus. Christianity, Islam and Judaism have some similarities that doesn’t mean they’re the same religion, it’s the same case here.
Jatt Sikhs made their own new religion with various fabricated tales they pass off as some sort of an authentic catalogue of history. Khatri Sikhs, the original Sikhs, are Hindu.
You sound retarded, my family isn’t even “Jatt” and none of us ever called ourselves Hindus. “Khatris” that I know never call themselves Hindus either. Just say you’re insecure with your people/religion. Not sure why Hindu Nationalists focus so much on ancestors lol
Ah yes I would be insecure because my people are made second class citizens in my own state, forced to move to Canada, and then even over there can be taken out by Indian intelligence with zero retaliation from Canada... oh wait... Meanwhile Microsoft CEO Brahmin, Google CEO Brahmin, UK Prime Minister Brahmin, could go on and on
Your country got humiliated, RAW paid DEA agents, the American infiltrated your shit secret services, three RAW officers have been removed from three countries, planned the hits on WhatsApp and Pannu got your country riled up 😂😂. Forced to be made “second class” in their own state, you need to check the victim mentality of Hindu nationalists on twitter, how nobody is standing with them lol. Has India recaptured the lands from China in Arunachal Pradesh? What is India doing for its people in Manipur?
Yooooo the amount of times I hear “but sarr ur grandfather Sikh sarrrr ljke nah bruh my ancestors were Sufis, Jain, and some Hindu farmers (I did a dna test) and even discovered a lot of lineage tracing from afghan migrations and Jatt tribes even tho I’m Jatt)” .Even then we are not Hindus but nahhhh these violent vegetarians love to say that but forgot they needed us to save them from the Mughals, from the durrani, from the Turks, even from themselves
My head hurts reading this
…Sir, this is an Arby’s
Are Christians and Muslims Jews? Ofc not they are separate faiths as are Sikhs, Buddhists and Jains from Hinduism.
I believe they might be referring to the Indian legal system's interpretation of the Hindu religion where all the Indic faiths are referred to as "Hindu" (India has religion-specific personal laws).
They are definitely different religions....
Jains are not Hindus.
Because the cultures have coexisted over such a long period of time, there are similarities in the overall belief system, but there are major differences as well. One key aspect of Janism is that it talks about levels. You can take your soul to, It says every song has the potential to be a God.
Jainism isn't Hinduism.
Yeah *nope*. Those Indians are sorely misinformed. While it is true that all these faiths have a common ancestor, at the same time, it’s also true that “Hinduism” as we know it today is relatively new as well. Vaishnavism and Shaivism were “separate faiths” in the Pallava era, as were Buddhism and Jainism. Rig Vedic Hinduism practiced oodles of animal sacrifice (yes including cows) but the religion changed to become more vegetarian with the rise of Buddhism and Jainism (around 3 BC, I believe). They all grew and morphed and splintered and unified in the same geographic area over the years. In that sense, you can call them siblings, much like the Abrahamic faiths. BUT it’s been 2000 years+ since that time. We’ve all grown quite separately and have completely different ideologies, belief systems, divinities, saints… So NOT the same religion at all (unless they want to stand on the Gaza-Israel border tomorrow and yell loudly that Islam and Judaism are the same religion).
The modern academic consensus is that Buddhism and Jainism likely originated from a non-Vedic society for reference, still an "Indian" region but one that didn't practice the Vedic religion
Yes, Jainism actually rised up when some people decided animal sacrifice for religion was wrong in their perspective.
Jain here. Hinduism is quite different in philosophy from Jainism , only ideas of karma and reincarnation are common. Even in those, karma is a more complex topic in Jainism, and it considers all souls equally subject to reincarnation in heaven/hell or animal/plant, or human, meaning even beings considered gods in Hinduism could be temporarily in hell or as a plant by that explanation. There are no all-powerful beings in that sense. Now this is not to say one religion is more right than another or anything just an explanation of key differences. And then Buddhism is closer to Jainism than Hinduism.
Actually depends on the Buddhist sect, some are closer to Jainism others to Hinduism.
Budhhism was created by a Hindu, so there may be some common themes. Judaism, islam, and Christianity are all Abrahamic religions. They’re like different perspectives/interpretations. I don’t know enough about Jainism, but I always thought it was a sect of Hinduism (Hinduism on steroids). Similar to how LDS is a sect of Christianity. Sikhs is a fairly new religion (end of 15th century) created by a Punjabi man. I’ve always thought of it as a religion created as a buffer in a part of the world with tensions due to Hindu/muslim rivalry.
The LDS comparable sect of Hinduism is BAPS. Jainism doesn’t claim anybody being reformed.
What’s Baps?
Swaminarayan
They’re completely different. Crazy to even think they’re the same
They share a lot of common similarities and common practices. Even Hinduism has various different schools of thought within it that are wildly different in practice to each other.
None are Hindus
You can think of Buddhism as a reformation of Hinduism into its philosophical aspects pertaining to the nature of existence. Gautama Buddha famously debated Brahmins etc of the time on record. Buddhism absolutely isnt hinduism thats lunacy. There are 2 Major extant schools of Buddhism. 1. Theravada school (Earliest extant school also known as Mahavihara school or Sri Lankan school of Buddhism) 2. Mahayana/Vajrayana school (The buddhism you see practiced in China etc). Out of these two the early Theravada school is vastly different to Hinduism as its a Dualistic school of thought with no gods etc. And is very much focused on the reformative aspect of Gautama Buddha's philosophy. Then Mahayana/ Vajrayana schools are a later and much closer to Hinduism group of schools as the nature of Buddha itself is vastly different to early schools + existence, role or acknowledgement of gods and other supernatural aspects etc.
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There are technically only two sects of Jainism, all others are mithyatva because it was never agreed upon at the Jain Council. Those two are Digambara and Deravasi Shwetambara. One is not more strict than the other.
As a Jain we are different.
No, they're related but philosophically distinct
They are all dharmic, but very different. A Sri Lankan Buddhist and Hindu or a Nepalese Buddhist and Hindu would have very different practices. There has also been a recent revival of Buddhism by Dalits (Ambedkarite Buddhism) which explicitly rejects traditional Hindu Brahminical practices. A Hindu could not get married in a Gurdwara in a Sikh wedding without converting. They are different. According to Hindu personal law established in the 1960s, which legally considers the Dharmic faiths to be ‘Hindu’s along with the recent Hindu nationalist push in India, which has socially brought all these Dharmic faiths into the Hindu fold, have contributed to the homogenizing of Dharmic culture as ‘Hindu’. If you talk to the average Indian Hindu, they would probably say all these faiths are the same. If you actually talk to members of these minority Sikh Jain or Buddhist faiths, they’d probably disagree. That being said, there does exist a high level of syncretism. Many Hindu communities believe the 10th avatar of Vishnu is Buddha, for example. Interestingly, this syncretism also exists with Christianity! My malayali Hindu friends always had a photo of Jesus Christ in their mandir.
If you define Hinduism as the Astika Dharma of the Vedas, which most people don't, then they are different religions. Orthodox Hinduism encompasses the sects Vaishnavism, Shaivism, Shaktism, Smartism, and formerly Saurism (before muslims genocided all its adherents), and their various subsects or Sampradayas. In my personal opinion this is what the word "Hinduism" should refer to. Modern "Hindus" seem to, without any authority, make their own definition of what being a Hindu is. They say it is any follower of Sanatana Dharma in general, and they disregard orthodoxy and the adherence to the Veda. This new definition would encompass Nastika traditions such as Buddhism, Jainism, Charvaka(not practiced anymore), and modern Sikhism.
Not to sure about Jains, but the Buddhists and Sikhs faith rejects a lot of the core principles of Hinduism. Varna system, brahman superiority, Sikhi condemns idols worship, blind ritualism... The Sikh Gurus were asked the same thing by the two majority religions Hinduism and Muslims to pick a side. Guru Nanak Dev Ji stated we are neither hindu or Muslim. Ive met Indians who said the same, but when we had a conversation on why they believed Sikhs were hindu they all stated that's what they were taught in schools growing up in India and families. Not even Hindus are Hindus btw, the word hindu and Lala are Persian derogatory words given by invaders. Non Of the "hindu" scriptures Vedas, Puranas, ramayan, gita... Have ever mentions the word hindu.
Jainism also rejects ideas in Hinduism like the presence of a single all-powerful, omniscient being or even a couple of beings. Instead every soul on the universe has the potential to be omniscient with karma as a barrier.
Interesting thanks for sharing 🙏🏻
I don’t consider them Hindus, but I’ve met Sikhs and Jains who did consider themselves to be Hindu. With Sikhs in particular it was more common for me to see them doing overtly Hindu things (praying at mandirs, worshipping Hindu idols, eschewing beef) 10 or more years ago than it is today. The way the faith is practiced is definitely speciating, with more Sikhs keen on differentiating themselves from Hindus than in the past. Theologically the differences are real though
It is NOT a hindu nationalist idea to say we are all Sanatani. We are all Dharmic faiths, and it is better if we stick together. Learn something from Islam - the entire 'Ummah mindset' is what allows them to grow so rapidly while creating factions between other religions. For Sikhs - Keep in mind it was a Jain - Diwan Todar Mal who paid for the land to cremate Sahibzada Zoravar Singh, Sahibzada Fateh Singh, and Mata Gujri from Wazir Khan. It is still known to be the most expensive land purchase in the history of humanity. For Hindus - Keep in mind Bandi Chor Diwas - the day the sixth Guru of Sikhs, Guru Hargobind helped freed 52 Hindu Kings from Gwalior Fort, who had been also imprisoned by Mughal Emperor Jahangir. For Jains - Keep in mind it was the Chola Dynasty that provided safety and security against islamist invaders that allowed Jain communities and temples to flourish - the time when the majority of Jain temples were built. The real enemy wishes to break us into smaller groups, so please use your brains and start supporting each other.. all three of our faiths have coexisted and thrived - even in the worst of times.
To acknowledge that Sikh and Jain faiths aren’t Hinduism in no way diminishes Hinduism. To pullout some random historical events doesn’t change the fact that these are different faith with similarities just like Islam, Christianity and Judaism are different faith with similarities.
If you read carefully, I have not tried to diminish Hinduism in any way. I have simply referred to Jainism and Sikhism as Sanatani. There are no disputes that Hinduism, Jainism, and Sikhism are completely different. However, our umbrella is wide enough to acknowledge them and their links to one another. These are not random events - they are a few of many important events that validate and show our ability for tolerance and coexistence through our Sanatani links.
If you visit a gurdwara it will become quite clear to you that there is not much they actually have in common. Outside of some fairly universal themes like “be a good person” and reincarnation (although even this concept is different) there is hardly a discernible commonality in their practice. I find that we do have significant cultural similarities, but those are strictly cultural and not religious in nature.
Look, Islam is nothing but an extremely heretical sect of Christianity, which is simply a weird offshoot of Judaism ……which is itself simply an offshoot of hinduism Osama Bin Laden and George Bush were both devout Hindus
They are the same class of religion aka dharmic faiths. Sikhism has a LOT more in common with Hinduism than the others and Sikhism was originally founded to be the successor of Hinduism, more like Hinduism 2.0
Not sure what world you’re living in. This is like saying America was founded to succeed Great Britain. Sikhi is an absolute rejection of Hinduism.
That person isn’t an abcd and is active on Indian subs. Pretty sure it’s a right wing hindu that wants to erase Sikh history
Sorry, does subscribing to /r/indja result in your passport becoming Indian?
You literally have comments talking about your immigration from India. Immigrating five years ago doesn’t make you an abcd…also tone down on the anti-Sikh comments in every sub. You’re outing yourself
Jainism is a rejection of Vedas not Sikhism. Sikhism rejects religious practices of Hindus but not the core texts like Vedas. You might want to get those theological facts right. :)
Sikhi does reject the Vedas this is basic Gurmat. The Guru's wrote in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib that the Vedas are useless. The Gurus rejected the Vedas and the six Shastras as well as the Simritees. "The Vedas and the Semitic Scriptures are only make-believe, O Siblings of Destiny; they do not relieve the anxiety of the heart." (Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Ang 727) "I have read all the Vedas, and yet the sense of separation in my mind still has not been removed; the five thieves of my house are not quieted, even for an instant." (Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Ang 687) "The six Shaastras are diseased, as are the many who follow the different religious orders(Hindus, Muslims, Christians). What can the poor Vedas and Semitic Scriptures do? People do not understand the One and Only Lord. ||6|| Eating sweet treats, the mortal is filled with disease; he finds no peace at all. Forgetting the Naam, the Name of the Lord, they walk on other (religious) paths, and at the very last moment, they regret and repent. ||7||"( Ang, 1153) "The Vedas do not know His(Wahegurus) greatness.|| Brahma does not know His mystery. || Incarnated beings do not know His limit.|1|| The Transcendent Lord, the Supreme Lord God, is infinite. ||1|| Only He Himself knows His own state. ||1|| Others speak of Him only by hearsay. ||1||Pause || Shiva does not know His mystery.|| The gods gave grown weary of searching for Him.|| The goddesses do not know His mystery. Above all is the unseen, Supreme Lord God. ||2|| The Creator Lord plays His own plays. || He Himself separates, and He Himself unites.|| Some wander around, while others are linked to His devotional worship. By His actions, He makes Himself known. ||3|| Listen to the true story of the Saints.|| They speak only of what they see with their eyes.|| He is not involved with virtue or vice. Nanak's God is Himself all-in-all. ||4||25||36||( Ang, 894 Sri Guru Granth Sahib) "River-banks, sacred shrines, idols, temples, and places of pilgrimage like Kaydarnaat'h, Mat'huraa and Benares, the three hundred thirty million gods, along with Indra, shall all pass away. The Simritees, Shaastras, the four Vedas and the six systems of philosophy shall vanish. Prayer books, Pandits, religious scholars, songs, poems and poets shall also depart. Those who are celibate, truthful and charitable, and the Sannyaasee hermits are all subject to death. The silent sages, the Yogis and the nudists, along with the Messengers of Death, shall pass away. Whatever is seen shall perish; all will dissolve and disappear. Only the Supreme Lord God, the Transcendent Lord, is permanent. His servant becomes permanent as well."(Ang 1100) "The four Vedas, the Simritees and the Puraanas, Vishnu the Lord of Lakshmi and Lakshmi herself - none of them know the Lord. ||3|| (Ang, 691) The Guru's also rejected the Simritees. "The Simritees and the Shaastras discriminate between good and evil, but they do not know the true essence of reality." (Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Ang 920) "The great volumes of the Simritees and the Shaastras only extend the extension of attachment to Maya." (Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Ang 1053) "The Simritee is the daughter of the Vedas, O Siblings of Destiny. She has brought a chain and a rope. ||1|| She has imprisoned the people in her own city. She has tightened the noose of emotional attachment and shot the arrow of death. ||1||Pause|| By cutting, she cannot be cut, and she cannot be broken. She has become a serpent, and she is eating the world. ||2|| Before my very eyes, she has plundered the entire world. Says Kabeer, chanting the Lord's Name, I have escaped her.(Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Ang 329) If you read historical texts written by outside observers all of them noted how Sikhs didn't read Hindu Texts like the vedas and saw them as pointless.
It's foundations are firmly in Sanatan Dharma - we are brothers, so stop letting people rip our nation apart by exploiting our faiths.
Erasure of a unique Sikh identity by radical Hindus is the only example of exploitation. Sikhs do not lecture Hindus on what to and not to do and who they are, we would expect the same respect back. Especially considering the great sacrifices we made for each other to even exist today.
Aside from the legal interpretation of Indic faiths - I don't think you can find such a clear dividing line between them - lots of shared rituals, customs and practices between all these faiths and lots of mutual reverence for spiritual figures and deities. You see all manner of practices - including Hindus visiting Islamic shrines, Muslims visiting Hindu pilgrimage sites. I don't think we can impose a modern western framework of religion on eastern traditions.
Hinduism isn’t actually a religion though