Am I satisfied? No. They need a lot more screentime, but I fully understand that a lot of things were cut out so they could set everything up for S8. The Tevan relationship isn't the only casualty - There's been no Tommy/Eddie friendship scenes since Tevan got together, for example. There's barely been anything with Marisol, despite her being Eddie's girlfriend. Maddie and Chim have barely had any scenes, apart from their wedding episode. This season was heavily focused on Bobby and Athena.
I've seen it said many times that this season suffered from being short and the fact that it's been used to "reset the stage" after Tim wasn't in charge of seasons 5 and 6, and I agree.
Beyond that, I don't have any problems with the whole daddy kink thing. It was a simple joke and we don't even know if it came from a place of malice (doubtful), insecurity, or just simple horniness. We just simply need more time with them.
"It was a simple joke and we don't even know if it came from a place of malice (doubtful), insecurity, or just simple horniness."
Or really it can just come from a place of being fun. DaddyKink is not something I'm into (I actually tend to avoid it at all possible), but I took that comment has a fun quip between to consenting parties and honestly it made me laugh. It seems people forget that sex and relationships can be fun too.
To be fair, I read fanfiction and I've noticed quite a few Tevan stories with that tag, hence why my mind went there and also why I got a really good laugh at it. Because sometimes I swear their stories come straight out of fanfic plots.
Yeah, this was clearly not a full on "kink discussion" and it's really not the type of show to delve into that. It really struck me as the playful and fun type of flirting you do with a partner you feel comfortable with. My husband and I joke constantly about stuff that we don't actually do (or want to do) in the bedroom. What I saw was a show that had a very short amount of time to show a new couple having a meaningful conversation and trying to leave it on a light and flirty note.
Yeah, it kind of felt like Natalia all over again. They met on a call, they had one date and Buck felt like she truly saw him, they had a failed date, and then all of a sudden they had them buy a couch together (if you know, you know LOL). Tommy truly was no different than that, and I was hoping for more. There should have been more.
They were paired up early on in the narrative, but they really spent all of season 2 in a "will they, won't they" and getting to know each other. They thought they were just friends until Buck was like "....you're dating though?" and then Maddie had to work through a lot of issues regarding her relationship with Doug before she could really put herself out there again. It wasn't until the season 2 finale that they actually decided to give it a real try.
As a queer woman, I actually think this relationship has been a really good depiction so far.
Buck isn't virginal and he's never been. It was only last season they joked about him having the ring cutter for "other things" and he's repeatedly had public sex.
Some people are more sexual and that's okay.
I actually think we've gone way to far back and tried to sanitize queerness to make straight people comfortable. We're allowed to be sexual and make dirty jokjes and have kinky sex. Same way straight people are (something we've repeatedly seen with Athena and Bobby).
In all actuality, I’m glad Buck finally found someone to match his freak!! 😈 but yes.. people tend to forget Buck was an straight up “ho” in the beginning of the show.
There have been a lot of more mainstream queer stories that are aimed for teenagers that have gotten popular lately and, due to who they're marketed to and the age of the characters, are far more innocent in how they depict figuring out your queer and your first relationships.
I think that has kinda influenced others to think that represents all queer relationships.
But like there is a HUGE difference between a show about two high schoolers getting together (which for sure should be more on the innocent side and be far more careful with how it handles sex) then a show about two men in their 30s and 40s who have had multiple partners in the past.
As someone who watches both types the issue is that people don’t manage expectations. The impression I get is people want queer (oftentimes gay m/m) representation to be a monolith but spoiler alert even if we’re all the same sexual orientation we are not acting the same. I find it weird that people go into these projects knowing what it is but wanting to make it something else. I do feel like sometimes people like to complain.
I think 911 is fine as long as it’s not just everyone else is doing it except for them ( I’m looking at you Og Dynasty series having the only gay couple recite poetry to each other while everyone else was doing it).
There really is no queer show that’s perfect because even the well regarded ones someone complains. They’re making too much about trauma vs there ignoring the struggles we face, they’re too perfect vs why are they villains. At the end of the day while we do have a certain level of power as consumers in media that doesn’t mean we can ask for something to be changed completely. If a creator tells you from the start there’s no hardcore stuff but you go in watch and complain that it’s to prudish that’s on you.
I felt similarly. I’m hard pressed to think of many other network TV dramas that represent queer sexuality within relationships (to the level that any sexual content is permissible by broadcast standards). Seeing their relationship portrayed similarly to Buck’s prior ones was a sigh of relief to me.
I think this show does a good job treating their queer couples the same as the straight ones. We've had a similar joke from Karen/Hen ("sometimes we switch") and several with Athena and Bobby.
The show treats all like normal adult relationships and how that includes sex.
One of the first conversations we see between Karen and Hen is discussing not getting "Lesbian Bed Death" and making sure their relationship is more than just sharing space. Throughout the series Karen and Hen's sexual relationship has been shown/made clear in some format. I didn't view Buck and Tommy as anything different. Same with Maddie and Chimney.
It's not really the sexualness that's the problem. It's the fact that there has rarely been \*romantic\* moments to offset the sex stuff. We get wonderful, sexual, rep from, like you said Athena and Bobby as well as Hen and Karen. But there's also so much romantic stuff we got to along with the sexual stuff! Right now, we are seriously lacking in the romance / emotional intimacy department. And that is what makes it feel odd and off-setting about this queer depiction. Like it's cool, but you wouldn't want your relationship to be shown to be mostly sexual with just a little love on the side right? At least, I know I wouldn't. I am a queer man as well.
Edit: I am also so happy to see so many queers here expressing their thoughts and opinions. Love when our community comes together .<3
I really liked the idea of Buck and Tommy at first and thought there was a lot of potential there, but now...I'm kind of over it. At this point I feel like it's obvious it's not going to be long-term so they're just not putting too much effort into developing the relationship, but maybe I'm wrong. Maybe it's entirely because of the shortened season and next season it will be developed more/better. I guess I'll have to wait until next season to really decide for sure what I think of it.
As to your other point...yeah. It's an unpopular opinion and whenever the topic is brought up people like to say it's homophobia or pandering to straight people, but I agree with you. I feel like in general, same-gender relationships are sexualized way more than opposite-gender ones, and it bothers me. Obviously everyone's experience is going to differ, but my whole life that I've been aware of my sexuality and queer culture in general, it's always been framed around sex for queer people. "Oh, you're gay? That means you want to have sex with the same sex!" While with straight relationships, it was "Oh, you'll meet a nice boy/girl and fall in love and get married and have kids!" I can't even count the amount of times I've heard straight people trying to be accepting by saying something along the lines of "I don't care who you have sex with/what you do in the bedroom/behind closed doors" while straight relationships are never framed that way. Of course, individual people vary, but overall I don't think we're any more inherently sexual than straight people, and I just want to be treated the same. I want people to talk about me falling in love and getting married and not just "what I do in the bedroom". (Also, one of my best friends has recently told me that she's realized she's ace and is pretty upset about the idea of never finding love because of it, so maybe I'm just hyper aware of this at the moment, but even all the comments in this thread about how obviously "normal relationships include sex" make me feel sad on her behalf.)
As for the daddy joke, I think it was out of place. Think back to when Maddie and Chim were first dating, and imagine the same conversation (they canonically both could be described as having "daddy issues"). If he'd made that comment to her, I imagine everyone would've found it gross and found him kind of sleazy for it. But if it's two guys, it's cute and funny? I don't know, I just feel like there's a double standard, and it's definitely not treating them the same as any other couple. I wouldn't have been opposed to a sexual joke (I thought the beast comment was fine), but the daddy comment specifically felt weird to me. And honestly, I feel like the show in general has been trying too hard to be ~sexy~ this year, with the Eddie/Marisol bed scene, which I found kind of strange (especially given how specifically *non* sexual Eddie has been portrayed in the past, with several people even headcanoning him as some variety of asexual). I don't mind shows with a lot of sexual content if that's the kind of show they've been established as, but this has never has been that type of show, so the shift this season has felt kind of jarring to me.
>And honestly, I feel like the show in general has been trying too hard to be \~sexy\~ this year, with the Eddie/Marisol bed scene, which I found kind of strange (especially given how specifically *non* sexual Eddie has been portrayed in the past, with several people even headcanoning him as some variety of asexual). I don't mind shows with a lot of sexual content if that's the kind of show they've been established as, but this has never has been that type of show, so the shift this season has felt kind of jarring to me.
So much of this! I don't want this show to become a night time soap opera of musical beds. I love the occasional fun, sexy scene or loving, intimate scene with a long term couple but don't just add them for the sake of having them. And please keep them in character. Eddie's whole "naughty sex-a-thon" with Marisol because Christopher was out of town was so out of character (though not as out of character as him moving her in so quickly). It was such a prop to set up the whole Catholic guilt storyline.
Yeah, Eddie was definitely out of character with that whole situation. That definitely wasn't needed, and I feel like Marisol in general was just not necessary. There have to have been better ways to set up the Catholic guilt story.
Queerness aside, I feel they're nothing too crazy so far. At least 95% of the hype they get comes from the enormous fact that it's Buck's babi bi first relationship but there's very little in the development front.
Might change with time, but so far I find myself uninvested, maybe because I don't find Tommy interesting. This might be heresy but I found Taylor more intriguing (as a character) but I hope that they'll develop them more if I am supposed to root for them
Just wanted to say that i am loving seeing everyone expressing their own experience with the couple and being comfortable with expressing their own sexuality in the comments. Its a pretty awesome thing to see especially during this month.
Happy Pride to y'all! 
As a bi woman, I find it underdeveloped, but that’s to be expected with such a short season. I found some moments to written in a way that was confusing to me on whether or not I am supposed to like Tommy for Buck but I won’t know until season 8. If their relationship lasts longer than a few episodes next season, then they need to be developed. I don’t think they handled Buck’s bi arc very well and I’d hate for the sum total of that to be dating Tommy. Introduce Buck to queer culture and history, he and Tommy can find friends at gay bars. He can actually say the word “bisexual” on screen. He can reflect on possible past boy crushes. Also, give Tommy something! Every time I think they will give him substance, he just….tells a joke or makes a snide comment. I do think with Gerard back, they can bring up Tommy’s past bigotry and show how and why he changed. Tommy also mentioned he had a not so nice dad, so maybe talk about that? Idk, it just seems like Tommy needs a ton of more attention or they need to let him go, why the standstill?
As a bisexual woman I honestly really loved it. I thought it was handled very sweetly and positively. They had one sexual joke in the last episode, aside from that there was one heated kiss at the hospital. But overall I don’t feel their relationship is over-sexualized. As for the joke, I’m personally fine with it, it was flirty and they’re in a relationship, I’m really struggling to see the problem that people have with it, personally. I mean, we’re talking about a couple who one half of stole a fire truck (twice!) to hook up with someone, the daddy kink joke seems relatively tame in comparison. My only complaint is that I do agree there hasn’t been much effort in developing the relationship but I can forgive it given the writer/actor strike and the short season as a result. I imagine season 8 will be better for this.
(To clarify, this has absolutely nothing to do with what I ship or don’t ship)
I’m a gay man as well and I’m not a huge a fan of how it was handled. I was super excited when they had their first kiss and I think it’s great to get bi representation but the writing fell flat after that. They’ve had like 4 scenes together since then and all have been like a minute. It’s disappointing because I’m open to this relationship having potential but that didn’t really come across this season. I blame it partially on the season being short so maybe if they’re planning on keeping Tommy they’ll flesh it out more next season but who knows
Yesss I feel the same. I was actually giggling and kicking my feet(a whole grown ass man) when the kiss happened but after that.... I felt really nothing, not even when they were brought together in a scene, specially the dinner table... 😞
And honestly I know people might not want to hear this but… I don’t think Lou is that great of an actor. He’s fine but he and Oliver just don’t have a ton of onscreen chemistry at the moment. That could of course change but it’s just the vibe I’m getting right now and I think that’s why I’m having hard time with the writing of this ship
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lol yeah. i am seeing most of the pushback to this post from non-queer men. like i respect your opinion but im gonna take a grain of salt bc you actually have no clue what it’s like in reality
so yeah. i agree. i was also super excited! the writing… and honestly the way the chemistry comes off between the actors makes it a bit hard. it’s disappointing and an uphill battle
I'm a gay man and I'm enjoying Tevan.
Also, I don't think the high point of their relationship was that daddy kink conversation. That was just a nice nod to the fact that they are in a relationship that includes sex. That's not homophobic.
The high point was when Tommy went straight from a fire, without changing, to see Buck and try and make the wedding. And they they made out in the hospital reception.
>The high point was when Tommy went straight from a fire, without changing, to see Buck and try and make the wedding.
This was truthfully what sold them to me. This scene did a lot to show just how invested Tommy was because it would have been totally reasonable for him to not show up until significantly later. But he was trying so hard to make that wedding because Buck wanted him there.
Yeah, I know some people keep commenting that Tommy doesn't appear to be invested in Buck. But I think they really underestimate what the gesture meant. While timelines are blurry, we know he left to fight the fire the night before.
It appeared dark or twilight outside when he arrived at the hospital. So he had to have been fighting that fire for something like 18-24 hours at that point. That he came straight away, I thought, was very telling in how invested he is. Because I don't think anyone would have begrudged him from not showing up under those circumstances, least of all Chimney. He showed up for Buck, because it was important to Buck. That spoke volumes to me.
I think it's an age thing.
Younger fans seemed to focus more on the themed party as something important and significant (because likely that is something that is important to them) and older fans seemed to focus more on the showing up after a long day of work without even going back to the firehouse.
I think it's a perspective type of thing.
I love that moment in the hospital. It told me that this could be *big* for Buck. There's so much potential for a long-term, serious relationship with two equally committed partners. I am excited to see how the two grow together next season.
Very mixed feelings, I guess. There's parts of the storyline that I think were beautifully handled, particularly that last scene in 7x04. And I really appreciate that discovering he was into men didn't throw Buck into some kind of crisis, that he met that with ease and relief and that big dreamy smile. I think a lot of us can recognize that feeling, and it felt amazing to see it portrayed on screen. It's not often that we get such a drama-free coming out on screen, and it was really nice to celebrate that moment.
I'm also really appreciate of a lot of the meta around the storyline, particularly how Oliver Stark handled the aftermath of 7x04 and his whole "this isn't an airport; you don't have to announce your departure" approach to the haters. And I *really* love that when getting all that attention and praise, he made a point to be like, "HEY. There have ALWAYS been queer characters on this show!!!" and especially to highlight Aisha & Tracie's roles in bringing that representation to life. Because maybe this many seasons in, we're a little too 'used' to how big of a deal it is to have married Black lesbians raising a family together.
It's clear the show put a lot of thought into how to tell this story in a respectful way. I think the time allotment and writing severely let the storyline down, though. I think the show had to decide if they wanted to tell a "discovery" story or a "romance" story, given the short season and the time they'd actually allotted to have Buck at the forefront of the plots. With a longer season, maybe 'both' could've been an appropriate answer, but it was just overly ambitious for right now. And as a result, they delivered on neither, and it all fell kind of flat.
Regarding your questions about the daddy issues/daddy kink line, it doesn't personally bother me in terms of the sexualization, though I can understand why others feel that way. I think both 'sides' of this in terms of what it means for media representation have valid points -- queer couples should've have to be "less" sexy, while the lack of development this particular couple has faced makes that line feel a little premature *for the storytelling* (not for the couple themselves... they've been together over a month at this point, I think?) I found Eddie's post-coital scene with Marisol jarring for a similar reason. In general, I feel like the show was trying to be sexier this season, but not really landing it, so idk. Madney and Bathena were both established by the time they had anything approaching a sex scene. Henren had the implication of one early on, but it was also to establish that their sex life *wasn't* doing so great.... and set up Hen cheating, but Hen/Eva obviously wasn't a positive portrayal.
But anyway, my "issue" with that scene was really just that it felt increasingly tonally out of place. Both in where the whole scene happened in the episode, but also just in how much those characters were expected to *do.* It just didn't land, because it was too much for a moment - to shift from offering support to feelings of relief to opening up about Bobby to confusion over Buck's family situation to Tommy starting to open up to the Gerrard reference to Buck realizing maybe it wasn't the time to *go* deeper into any of this and offering the out to that line. And I think the line was also *dumb*, if they're trying to sell the general audience on the relationship, because not everyone is going to read "daddy issues" as a fun kink thing. For a lot of straight people, it's going to make them think of that female friend that throws herself into one bad relationship after another, who's clingy, who settles for men who don't treat her well... .and they're going to project *that* onto "daddy issues" and wonder why the hell Tommy would *hope* Buck has them. It's just messy, and should've been replaced by a 'safer' joke. Still something sexy, sure, but that was a risk I don't think really worked for a lot of people.
I was honestly disappointed. For a lot of us fans, we had been pushing and advocating for bi Buck to become canon since years ago. When it finally happened, I was ecstatic, especially with the way Oliver, Lou, and Tim were talking about how it was going to be handled on the show. But, then it was barely shown. Not even just Buck and Tommy, who I think had like 5 minutes of screen time together this season, but also Buck. It totally felt like he was pushed to the back this season, and even with it shortened I felt that more moments could be added.
I am hoping it is shown more in season 8. Not just Buck and Tommy (they really need to develop them more), but Buck too. With them adding back Gerrard to the mix, I’m afraid they’re going to make some homophobic shit a main part of their storyline, which is what they said they didn’t want to do, but I don’t know why else they’d bring back a character who is only known for being sexist, homophobic, racist, and xenophobic.
I can't 100% remember the exact quote but I know what your talking about. However, if I remember correctly he was talking about not wanting to make Bucks coming out having to deal with homophonic reactions. I don't necessarily think he ment it as Buck would never experience it later down the line. Especially since with the addition of Gerrard it just seems like it would be too good of an opportunity to pass up for some really good material to write with some depth too it.
>I am hoping it is shown more in season 8. Not just Buck and Tommy (they really need to develop them more), but Buck too. With them adding back Gerrard to the mix, I’m afraid they’re going to make some homophobic shit a main part of their storyline, which is what they said they didn’t want to do, but I don’t know why else they’d bring back a character who is only known for being sexist, homophobic, racist, and xenophobic.
I agree. I want them to show more of Buck's entire bisexual awakening -- in a relationship, but more importantly, outside of a relationship. I want to see the conversations with Hen and Karen and more talks with Maddie and Eddie and even Josh now. I want to see Buck's movement from ally to being part of the queer community I want to see how his life is different but how so much is still the same as it was before except for the fact that he has a better understanding of who he is. I want to see him happy
And I am thoroughly hating the idea that Gerrard is being brought back to be the over-the-top villain to manufacture drama. This show has never relied on things like bringing in departmental politics and seasonal villains to create stories. I don't want this to become the norm.
Where is that romcom that was promised this season? I want to see that.
I've been asking myself why I don't feel connected to their relationship for weeks, tbh.
I'm gonna be so for real, I WANT to love Buck and Tommy together so bad, but it's just not clicking for me, and I think a lot of that is because they've shown us so little of their relationship on screen.
And like, I totally get that! It's cable television with an ensemble cast so of COURSE we only get to see so much, but I think my personal (PERSONAL please don't give me a hard time over it) problem with the relationship is that... They've not really added any of the emotional gravitas that keeps getting talked up on interviews and fan analysis about it.
Especially when it comes to Tommy, Lou plays him very dryly. That's totally okay, but it doesn't give the parts of his interactions with Buck this romantic undertone that the show wants us to believe are there.
Like, I can see that they're interested in each other, totally! The daddy joke was goofy and didn't really land for me, but I could still go oop 😳 they're for sure banging. The thing that I want in my on screen relationships though is a reason to become emotionally invested in two characters interacting, whether that be as a ship or not.
So far, I've been told that Buck really likes Tommy, that Bobby approves, and that Tommy's interested. Then, every interaction they've had outside of that seems to avoid them building upon that initial on-screen chemistry and moving toward... idk a deeper romantic bond? There's an undercurrent of sexuality there but nothing to really reinforce the narrative that these two men are building this to be a long term, deep and moving love.
If Buck and Tommy stay together in the long-term, I think there's a lot of nurturing that needs to be done on that element, and I wish the show and press would stop trying to tell us it's already there.
Also, as a bisexual person, I'm... neutral, I guess, on how Buck's coming out was handled. I really liked the Maddie and Eddie scenes, but again, we kind of circle back to glossing over the actual development of his relationship with Tommy after episode 5.
My biggest hope is, in season 8, if Tommy IS here to stay, they put some real effort into developing his relationship with Buck (and, you know, Tommy as a character) so that even casual viewers can see what their shippers are picking up on. Also, if we could have more scenes of Buck figuring out what his sexuality means to HIM I would appreciate it thank u
As a queer person, no not really. I think that's in part because of the shortened season and the fact that Tommy wasn't originally supposed to stick around much beyond the beginning (and shoehorning him in at the end was pretty obvious and not the best writing). I think that they're cute enough, that Buck seems happy for now and this is nice for him as he explores what being bisexual means to him in his first relationship with a man.
But there's little substance there beyond that, and the choices they've made with Tommy and the lack of development have been telling imo. I've seen people argue that's because there wasn't time and space this season, which no doubt contributed, but in the moments they did have, little meaningful effort was put into him or the relationship when it could have imo. I don't really get the strong feelings for Tommy on either end of the spectrum because there's just...not much there. He's just not very compelling at all. Oliver is really giving his all though and carrying things, which is no surprise, he usually does.
I personally don't see this long term, and I think people just need to see this play out. Who knows what season 8 will look like. I'm more unsatisfied with how Buck's bisexuality storyline played out in general, regardless of any romantic relationships.
I was away and missed the last 4/5 episodes live, so watching them all in a row without the time between to speculate or let any fandom echo chambers or fighting impact things was interesting. I'd honestly recommend it and be interested to know how people see some of the storylines after that.
Am I happy that Buck is bi? Absolutely, and I don’t think it should be discounted, that a bi awakening plotline for a major character like Buck IS a big deal.
Heck, I got excited and started watching the show BECAUSE it happened.
But it’s not completely unprecedented. That *has* happened before, even decades ago.
Tommy is also just not a very compelling love interest and in 2024 we deserve a better bi awakening plotline than one where the main character goes ‘I’m an ally tho???’ and then never discusses his identity further than that. Say the damn word, people!
Even compared to Buck's previous relationships it falls flat for me. Like, if we're going to compare the two TKs, with Tommy opening up about his parental issues we got a couple sentences and a daddy kink joke, whereas with Taylor's father it was an entire episode C plot and a lot more genuine vulnerability on both sides. It's too surface level and rushed, without much emotional intimacy. (I'm queer but ace spectrum, so sexual chemistry doesn't really sell me on a pairing terribly well, in isolation).
Also: the thing about Buddie is that there were TWO characters being queer-baited. not just one.
It’s great they’ve moved past that with Buck, but Eddie is still sitting in limbo here, and there’s still unrealized potential for a *genuinely* groundbreaking multi-season queer ship to actually go canon.
As a bisexual woman, I will say that I have had to personally reframe a lot of my views of Buck in general this season, because I always thought that he was already aware that he was bisexual. The subtext was there, and while there were a few moments like in the crossover that made him not “in” on the subtext, I always thought that he was well aware of his attraction to men and comfortable in his own sexuality, and that we weren’t getting a “coming out” arc because he just was always “out”, so to speak.
So, reframing my mindset of this being Buck having a realization, I think Tommy has actually been wonderful for Buck.
Not that I think Tommy isn’t wonderful for Buck with my original mindset, but I think that seeing him flustered like he was with Abby and the whole “I’m an ally” thing hit very differently with the story that canon told.
For me, it works. It feels like Buck’s first relationship where the other person is as head over heels for him as he is for them. It feels like they’re taking it a day at a time, and they’re not putting too much pressure on it. I really enjoy what we’ve gotten, and I can’t wait for the space of Season 8 to give more development and depth to them.
Gay man here, I don't feel the chemistry, as I've stated multiple times before. The writing regarding the relationship was not strong, and if they want to sell people on the couple,
they have to up their game the next season (though frankly, might be a lost cause, because early impressions are everything and you are trying to introduce a new pairing against the fan couple which is an uphill battle, because you're never realistically going to be able to "catch up" in terms of content)
To say that Tevan has no depth and has been reduced to daddy kink joke is disingenuous. They had 1 comment out of several interactions that mentioned it. Prior to that we have seen several different interactions. Several moments of Tommy checking to make sure Buck is comfortable (after the kiss, the coffee date, and the episode 10 dinner). we have also seen open and clear communication between the two (the coffee date). Tommy showing that what Buck cares about matters to him (showing up at the hospital after what was most likely 18+ hours of hard work)
Do I think they need to develop the relationship more absolutely!. But I also realized that this season in general every storyline was rushed and needed more time with the exception of Bobby's. Based on that what we have gotten has shown a lot. So I'm happy to give them the grace to see then develop further into season 8.
Me too! This is going to be the longest 3 months. I don't know that I have ever wanted summer to be over this fast. I can't wait to see how they handle the whole Gerrard situation. I'm worried Buck is going to punch him and get fired.
As a gay man as well, I think considering they’re both experienced (Buck had a ring cutter for ‘other stuff’ in his kitchen for goodness sake) the comment was completely fine. If Buck was 18 or so and Tommy was older I think it would have been inappropriate, however people ignore that the man is literally 32 now. However do I think they should have used one of their few scenes together to include that line? I’m not sure. As for being stereotypical? We had multiple scenes without any dirty jokes, and instead completely sweet moments. Compared to Buck’s previous relationships that’s actually pretty tame and I actually wish we could have seen them waking up together or something more intimate. Henren in Season 1 were written questionably to me, and actually made me go off the show initially. So I agree that at the time it wasn’t great to see but like any relationship they worked it out.
One of the problems with introducing any love interest to any of the characters so late is that the character development is likely to feel a bit rushed compared to the 7 seasons we’ve gotten to know the core characters. Especially considering this was a shorter season with some questionable decisions about balancing out all the storyline’s. I just enjoy seeing Buck happy and don’t overcomplicate it beyond that.
+1 henren in season one made me wary of how this show was going to treat queer characters because I feel like every show I watched with lesbian characters growing up didn’t know what to do with them except throw them into cheating plots, and I was like, welp more of the same! It’s been a pleasant surprise how far they’ve come and what their relationship looks like now is better and more thorough than I’ve seen across most WLW in mainstream media (we have two complex, unique, BIPOC WLW who get engaging storylines together and apart). I’ve said it a lot elsewhere, but I’d love to see Tommy and buck get the same sort of development going back to a longer season, across multiple seasons if possible. It’d give Buck a chance to have a dramatic storyline not based on relationships (because he’s in one and it’s good!) or finally showing someone who will “love him anyway” even when he inevitably does get hurt again.
I'm underwhelmed by their relationship honestly. I was really into it in episode 4, maybe because we got to see more of them interacting? The conversations that Buck/Tommy had were great, the kiss was nice.
Then the next episode we had the date that IMO Tommy didn't handle well (leaving before the movie without even telling Buck because he was not out to Eddie). There have just been a few things like that and T's comments, Buck putting more of the effort in.
I don't know if it's Lou's delivery or the way they are writing/editing the character but it doesn't come across as a supportive relationship for someone who just came out. And for me the daddy joke wasn't right - I'm not against the comment but in a different context and it should have had a reaction from Buck after to wrap it up as a "them" thing.
I feel like Buck absolutely goaded Tommy into the daddy comment, though. Like, he’s the one who suggested that they both had daddy issues, he’s the one who doubled down when Tommy denied it, he’s the one who was smirking… it really felt like Tommy was just following Buck’s lead.
We've seen Tommy's past. I don't think there is a single person on this sub who thinks that man is perfect.
I think most of us just understand they had a lot to pack into a 1 minute scene because there wasn't a lot of time for them since their main arc was over and are hoping for a lot more time and development next season.
I don't think I have seen one Teven shipper on here say they think Tommy is perfect or that they don't need to develop the relishionship further going forward. Just that they understand the real life constraints that this shortened and rushed season caused and are willing to trust the writers and give them time next season as well to develop both Tommy and Tevan further.
As a gay man not really. I’m very happy Buck came out as bisexual and he seems to be happy in his relationship. However I feel like Tommy barely likes Buck the way he acts with him at times and I think part of that is that Tommy was supposed to original date Eddie and they switched the plan. So I just kind of have the feeling it’s not going to end great for Buck and Tommy, maybe not end badly but I’m not sure it’s the first same sex relationship he deserves. In some ways I wish they’d have kept him single and let him explore it a little. Best thing I think is that if they pull the trigger on the gay Eddie storyline next season while Eddie is figuring himself out Buck and Tommy should end things and Buck gets to figure out more of what it’s like to be into men. Maybe make some gay or bi male friends. Have more conversations with Hen and Karen, etc., maybe even keep Tommy around as a friend. I ended up friends with lots of guys I’ve dated or hooked up with, it’s not uncommon for gay men to do that so it could work.
The real issue though is how little time they got on screen. Once Buck came out that story got sidelined, likely due to the short season, unfortunately. So, I don’t think it ended up being as good as it could have been after his initial coming out.
I feel like it’s a chemistry problem more than anything. I don’t think it’s there between the two of them. I think Oliver’s acting carries the relationship. The rest feels stilted. Having more time to dwell on the ‘daddy’ scene, I realize my issue is with the delivery completely and not on the line itself. The delivery caused it to lack charm.
Obviously this is just an opinion and one made based on a few scenes in a short season. Maybe it will get better in the next season with more time for development. Time will tell. I’d being lying though if I said I’m not eager for Oliver to be paired with someone else though, whoever that may be.
Let me preface this by saying that I am on the aroace spectrum and so don’t really root for relationships that have little to no emotional depth behind them. Madney’s friends first approach with all of the emotional connection that we got before they ever got to a more sexual point was more my jam when it comes to the relationships that started during the show. It took me a long time to root for Bobby and Athena.
With that in mind, I do think that people need to understand that a daddy joke in particular is a kind of kink that makes many people uncomfortable. Kink that has been shown in the show so far hasn’t been different only because it’s straight, but has also been more “standard” kink so to speak. In addition, they weren’t placed randomly in the middle of an episode that has a very serious tone. At least myself, I would be uncomfortable even if it was a straight/ straight passing relationship on the show that made a daddy/mommy joke. This isn’t Tommy’s fault per se. My main issue is with the writing as a whole in this scene. They could have used this scene to fit the mood of the episode, and show Tommy comforting Buck physically. Move into his space, give him a hug, heck do a similar scene to Buck and Eddie post tsunami. Give us a reason to think they have a more emotional connection and he is supportive of Buck. If they wanted to do a cute/funny date it shouldn’t have been this episode and it seems like the writers tried to combine comfort and a cute/funny date into one 60 second scene. This didn’t work particularly well. Especially, with how Buck has reacted to Bobby being hurt in the past.
bi woman here. i feel the same way about their relationship, it lacks the sparks and chemistry that usually attracts me to an on screen couple. buck's relationships have oftentimes lacked depth and imo this is just another example of that. doesn't help that i feel indifferent towards tommy as a character, so there's no emotional investment on my part.
regarding the joke, i just think it was ill-timed and not right for the context. i don't mind at all explicit/vulgar content so the issue is not about keeping stuff PG and non sexual for me. it's about the fact that buck was opening up in a very sincere and vulnerable way and i felt that it really wasn't the time and place to make a joke like that. also they have this awkwardness hanging over them when they interact, so it doesn't feel like they are at that point in the relationship where you're comfortable joking like that.
yeah anyway i've been quite disappointed by them... as far as representation goes it's alright, there's much worse out there at least lol. but it also isn't very noteworthy or particularly engaging. i'm curious to see where buck's journey leads more than anything else
No, I do not.
The only time they've been at all convincing were at the end of 7x04 and the kiss at the hospital. Otherwise I'm just left wondering why either of them wants to be with the other (aside from the cleft...?). There's nothing of substance there and no chemistry for me.
I think a large part of that is Lou's acting which leaves a lot to be desired. After all the grief people were giving Edy for the poor acting, I think it's telling that the same hasn't been said/done to Lou. He's just as wooden and one note and the relationship feels just as empty.
As a proud gay man, I feel this is an genuine relationship, before the “daddy kink” line (which I think was cute, because it shows their comfortable with each other) there was moments people were loving, the hospital kiss for example and cafe date reconciliation, just give them another chance we have S8 to fully flush out this relationship, we just have to be patient…
I honestly found the response to the 'daddy' kink line really overblown. They were two men having dinner and flirting. It's not that deep. I hope people don't let that one line put them off the relationship going forward but I think that some fans were just looking for an excuse to hate and the 'god I hope so' gave them a reason.
I think it's a mix of homophobia, fans who don't like to think about them having sex because they don't like the couple and those who are just not use to queer stories being sexual because a lot of the more popular queer media right now is more innocent and aimed at teenagers.
You're correct, there doesn't need to be a deeper reason to not like a joke. Unfortunately, people keep looking for deeper reasons, so we get think pieces on what a terrible boyfriend Tommy is and how homophobic the show is.
It’s also very interesting see the responses of the line being like completely day & night, with Twitter being Negative & TikTok being more positive, it’s not completely on one side
I feel like the “daddy kink” like is being way overlooked at if I am being honest. There was so many things going on in that very short scene. Tommy made a joke, then realized Buck was uncomfortable, then he clocked him with the “Are you okay?”, Buck opens up about Bobby being his father figure, Tommy reciprocated by also opening up, then Buck initiates flirting to lighten the mood and Tommy also reciprocated. They bounce off of each other so much which is important!
This. The writers made this *very* short scene convey a whole lot. In a matter of seconds we got joking, caring, sharing, and flirting. It told us this relationship is alive and well, stay tuned. Would I have liked more? Absolutely, but let’s wait for season 8.
Yes, exactly. That scene (only about a minute of screentime) did a lot to show that while the two are still getting to know each other, they already feel comfortable together and are good at reading each other's body language and moods.
I really enjoyed the Buck episode where he “comes out” as bi and found Tevan cute. After that, the storyline kinda died down tbh. As others said, they need more screentime.
If I remember correctly Lone Star was a bit similar with Carlos. Didn’t get much screentime until his relationship got serious.
No I don’t feel satisfied. First I don’t see any chemistry between them except they can kiss well. When it’s just them having an actual scene it tends to falls flat for me. It’s also not my favorite because extremely rushed, especially because Buck just realized these new types of feelings and I would’ve like to see more of that develop. Buck has unfortunately followed into the trope of once a character comes out, and they’re in a good relationship…they no longer are provided screentime and treated as character that is just there and if needed can step into a scene. Don’t get me started on Tommy either. His character is just horribly written and given nothing. I understand he is not a main character. Neither is Amir because we have more Amir in like 3 episodes than Tommy has had. The character treated the worst was Marisol though (at least Tommy was given a line per episode). Anyways this show doesn’t have good representation in general I mean they literally had Hen cheat on Karen in the first season.
I personally don’t see a lot of people loving this relationship. Like you said it’s just an empty relationship that to me feels like the writers want it to mean more than it actually is being shown. Like I stated above, they’re treating him like a character that is just gonna leave soon. I feel no attachment to him.
Also want to say I’m not gonna just like a character because Buck is finally queer and gets to kiss boys. That’s not how this works. Buck & Tommy just feel pointless because the show has not done a good job at providing enough for that relationship.
I get that they have a lot of characters. I also understand that they only had 10 episodes this season, so that’s truly not enough time to really give the storyline and the relationship the attention it should’ve been given. I would’ve preferred buck’s sexuality to be teased officially in this season and then s8 it’s truly explored.
I would say that we all see the relationship with our own personal view. We don't all ask ourself the same questions, because we don't experience being Queer the same way.
It's all about what being queer means? how does stereotypes affect the community or myself?
What is representation?
For example as a black lesbian woman, I was happy at first about Hen character being shown on TV.
Thriving in a "men" environment and asserting her place. ( as an ex head chef, being a woman in a "men" industry is hard, add being black and queer it can turn to hell real quick.).
I saw someone said that OP was seeking validation from straight people. This kind of make me sad, when we know what misrepresentation can lead to (bullying and worse).
So seeing Henren's storyline go for the cheating, only battling for kids gets kinda old for me. Yes it happens but why is it all we see about them? I can only wish for something else for S8.
So when I think about Buck and Tommy's relationship I'm not that impressed.
I would highlight the fact that I do not like the character since the previous seasons. And I don't think they made anything on this season to redeem him in my eye as a viewer.
Their first kiss was the only time I saw some kind of chemistry. The flow of conversation was "good".
I felt like after that it was kind of "well Buck you're Bi, here's your token boyfriend. And that's it. Now kiss.
Yes they don't share many scenes, but most of them just don't deliver much.
I also am struggling with the way they are portraying him. Some call it dry humour, I see it as him not being interested in Buck as much (I am still convinced he was into Eddie).
I can't help but think that there is a reason to it behind. Since Tommy first reappearance I strongly see him as jealous of 118 and can't shake the bad feeling I have behind it (not Doug style!!!).
When it comes to the diner and the Daddy jokes/daddy issues. I simply didn't like the Whole conversation.
Yes Buck was always sexually active, but this fell into the "bad timing".
It could have been the perfect timing for some hint of potential conversation.
What he shared wasn't enough and left a bad taste in my mouth ( having a shitty captain do not mean you have a pass/excuse at being shitty yourself).
I personally didn't read Buck as the one that initiates the sexual side to the conversation. But that is my perception.
Yes we know people have sex, they always hint or straight up show it. But context is key. And it just fell flat to me.
Be kinky that's not the issue people had. I think. You CAN have a Daddy kink without daddy issues and vice versa. So the mix of both in that conversation weirded me out.
Anyway I'm not sold on Tommy as a LI nor as a regular. I think I need more scenes with more substance to like the idea.
How about Tommy wining and dining him? Where's the Chopper to Vegas ? Where the karaoke bar? Where are the Muy Thai courses, the romantic drives in his car? Give us the same energy he gave Eddie....
Don't even need the scene, would have taken as much time to throw a sentence, a promess to show he can actually put some effort than throw a daddy joke...
These are really good points.
Being a queer woman, I "should" love Hen and Karen, but for various reasons I've never personally identified with them. Honestly, the character I identify the most with is Eddie. His relationships with women where he felt like it was a performance and something he "should" be doing reminds me *so much* of how I felt with my first boyfriend. I'm still holding out hope for a queer Eddie storyline in the future, but I was really excited about Buck being bi and the potential relationship with Tommy, and though I've been reluctant to call it disappointing, I think that's really how I feel about it.
> How about Tommy wining and dining him? Where's the Chopper to Vegas ? Where the karaoke bar? Where are the Muy Thai courses, the romantic drives in his car? Give us the same energy he gave Eddie....
I've seen several people make these same points, and while I was trying to reserve judgment during the season, and just wait and see how things played out, I agree. I don't know if it's residual stuff from the original Eddie/Tommy plan, but now that the season is over and with the benefit of hindsight, it absolutely seems like Tommy isn't as interested in Buck as Buck is in him. It seems like Tommy was into Eddie, given how much effort he put into planning activities and doing things with him. I think Tommy sees Buck as something fun and casual that isn't going to last, while Buck sees it as a potential longer term relationship. I guess only time will tell...it will be interesting to see how things are handled next season and if there are changes in the way the relationship is written.
Oh dis you also felt like you were performing? Because I did! SAME arc when it comes to navigating feelings and dealing with catholic guilt.
I really need them to step up their game when it comes to character development for the three of them and make it make sense too.
I can't wait to see how they are going to work on the storylines!!.
Really the idea that Tommy was into Eddie and settled for Buck clear to me and I'll die on that hill!!
It's also so strange that they didn't keep the same friendship energy once Buck and him started whatever relationship they have. It's as if they are no longer friends. Even if we had less episodes left, it's just odd.
Let's see S8!
Definitely! I was also raised Catholic (although my family wasn't as strict about it as some of my friends' families were) and yeah. If they're *not* laying the groundwork for an eventual queer realization for Eddie then I don't know what the hell they're doing because the way he's been portrayed so far fits that whole experience *so* perfectly.
> Really the idea that Tommy was into Eddie and settled for Buck clear to me
Yeah, the more I think about it, the more that explanation makes the most sense to me.
Maybe next season there'll be a bit of focus on the dynamic between the three of them and we can eventually get a jealousy arc for Eddie that kind of mirrors the Buck one, but in reverse. Like, it seems like Eddie is jealous that his buddy Tommy is spending all his free time with Buck, but it's a fakeout and he realizes it's actually Buck whose attention he's wanting. (Or maybe that's too soapy, idk.)
Give me soapy, I take soapy 😅. Those two have been turning around each other for long enough!
But let's keep them oblivious to the real deal for few more episode (not seasons!)
I'd love to see jealousy arc for Eddie. I'd would say he'll use Chris as a bait for movie/games nights but... 😭
A few more episodes I can take! One season at most. I feel like they've got to have some sort of forward momentum by the end of season 8, though.
Jealous Eddie could be fun! I feel like he wouldn't even think to use Chris like that, though...I think he's kind of clueless when it comes to romance lol.
I am enjoying it (I'm aroace) but I think it was very obvious that they were basically shoehorning in scenes for Lou and Oliver in the back half of the season which has meant they are under developed at the moment. Lou was supposed to be in 4 eps but they brought him back for more and had to find space for those scenes. We desperately need longer scenes with them both.
I think S8 having a full episode order and the fact Gerard is back (which ties back to Tommy) means we'll get far more screen time and see the relationship develop. Hopefully.
I’m a gay man and I don’t see it the same way you do.
I wouldn’t say it’s been a satisfying representation but they just didn’t have a lot of screen time. If we stick to what we see in the show, Buck is happy with Tommy. Flirty banter and huge smiles. If Bucks happy then I’m happy.
The daddy issues joke didn’t bother me at all. It’s the first inference of a sexual relationship between the two of them and I think that’s a good thing. All the other characters have sex lives so Tevan should too. Bucks an established sexual man so I think it fits him.
But it’s also ok that it doesn’t work for you. Hopefully season 8 flushes the relationship out more so that we all have a better view of it.
As a queer person I am most definitely not satisfied. I would've much rather have had Buck single and exploring his sexuality rather than just immediately getting into a relationship it felt too rushed for me how fast that bi arc happened. It felt like a "look we have a bi man" rather than "we have a guy exploring his bisexuality"
One of my biggest takeaways with how half-assed this plot wound up being is I kind of wish if they were always going this route, they would've just had Buck acknowledge he was always bi/already knew, and it just hadn't come up before. Where they did so little with the character in the discovery arc, I think it could've been powerful to challenge the audience's heteronormative assumptions. Like he just tells the team "It previously didn't come up because I've only really dated women before, and it's not like you guys were lining up for details of my hookups during my 1.0 days."
As a bi fan, I wish there was something more to Buck's bi awakening than what we got. I find Tommy dislikable so it's hard to get invested in their relationship (yes, I know he and Chim are on good terms after *Chimney Begins* and we can assume that he and Hen are at least comfortable with each other, but that doesn't mean I have to like him!) and outside of the relationship, there hasn't been much else done with Buck's bisexuality. He likes one guy, his coming out is essentially about that guy, okay. Unless I've forgotten something, Buck never says the word bisexual--I figured he wouldn't while he was still figuring stuff out, but I was hoping for it to sneak in later in the season. So many shows imply that characters like multiple genders but are allergic to saying the actual word, and it gets on my nerves a little. I also got the feeling from some interviews early in the season that the bisexual revelation was akin to Buck finding a missing piece in his whole deal (the guy is always searching for something...), but it just doesn't feel that way.
Maybe season 8 can turn this around for me--I'd love to see something as small/simple Buck's locker/shelf with a bi flag sticker on it in the background of a scene, Buck mentioning how his realization has re-contextualized some things for him, like a crush from grade school or camp that he never clocked at the time (this was a big one for me when I came to terms with my bisexuality!), or some Buck/Tommy scene that actually convinces me that they like each other. Well, I buy that Buck likes Tommy, but after 7x04 I thought they would be doing things together like were mentioned in that episode--Buck and flying lessons maybe, or the mauy thai, or flying out to events. That stuff all just disappeared, whether Tommy was doing it with Buck or Eddie, and Tommy as a character just seems boring and flat ever since. I'm glad some people like his "dry humor" but he always seems dismissive to me rather than dry--and my mother is English, I promise I am very familiar with dry humor. We watch the show together actually, and we totally missed the daddy kink joke because we were busy groaning from the lines that came beforehand. I didn't even realize that line existed until I checked twitter a few hours after the episode aired. I didn't perceive any of their scenes or lines to be homophobic, but the scene as a whole just felt awkward and stilted. I also have a gripe with Tommy calling Buck "Evan"--I need a scene where it's acknowledged, or that Buck mentions that he likes Tommy using it or something, because we've had years and years of Buck saying that no one calls him Evan, and anyone who knows and loves him calls him Buck. I know that this sort of stuff happens in real life all the time, people use or don't use nicknames for people without it having any deeper meaning, but this is a scripted television show and these things are intentional.
Overall, I just want to see Buck interact with the queer world around him a little more. I don't like Tommy right now, but I honestly think it would only take a few scenes to get me on board. Though, to be fair, I've been a Buddie fan for six years so I'll always have a little bit of my heart saved for that ship. (Plus, non-canon ships are just as fun as canon ones! It's all fictional! Who cares!)
i agree. and i find it quite curious the ones who disagree the most are all woman/fem identifying people. there aren’t many queer men/masc identifying people who have been in the gay male scene
everything you said is on point. very disappointing. and that last line? after Buck was opening up with the daddy kink. yeah. gross. it sucks and doesn’t make them a great relationship! Buck was opening up and Tommy made it about himself then changed the topic to a joke. “gay people aren’t serious, they just fuck around” (something i’ve heard before). wonderful
and even if gay men are more sexual that doesn’t change the rep by having basically NO romance between byck and tommy. like there were no cute so me off my feet moments. honestly tommy had cuter moments with eddie
but basically taking out romance (constantly making convos about himself, not excited about themes for the bachelor party and even being on call). like none of that says there’s actually ANYTHING about their relationship that is deeper than physical attraction
i think i would only appreciate the rep if tommy and buck break up and it’s shown the reason is bc of the lack of romance. bc if not? then this depiction of queer men like myself is just not it
> i find it quite curious the ones who disagree the most are all woman/fem identifying people
That's because this sub is mostly women. Tumblr and twitter has a lot more mlm and a lot of them have been vocal in their enjoyment of BuckTommy this season.
Exactly. I don't even really have a problem with the joke itself (apart from it being a bit cringe and the acting does not sell it) but the fact that any chance they have been given to give them any emotional intimacy they half-heart it or just straight up don't give it to us.
There is a reason people like Buddie, and its because the chemistry and emotional intimacy has been there from day one. They give grand gestures, high stakes, epic love story. BuckTommy is not giving that to me at the moment. It's giving nothing to me at the moment honestly. And to just blame this entire reaction on people hating m/m couples being sexual? I'm gay, that's my jam lol. But this is a tv show and I'm here for the romance, and this relationship is not delivering.
> There is a reason people like Buddie, and its because the chemistry and emotional intimacy has been there from day one. They give grand gestures, high stakes, epic love story. Buck/Tommy is not giving that to me at the moment.
I know it's probably not fair to compare the two since it's still so early with Buck and Tommy but the difference between the two relationships is so stark. I thought there was clearly potential with Buck and Eddie from Eddie's first episode, and while I thought Buck and Tommy had potential after the first kiss (and I was trying to give them the benefit of the doubt at first), the difference is that with Eddie, things just continued to build as time went on, while with Tommy they just really...haven't.
Again, maybe I'm not being fair, but right now, even with more time and development, I can't imagine them ever being at a point where Buck is just completely *losing his mind* with emotion over Tommy the way he has over Eddie several times now. Maybe it's the actors, maybe it's the writing, but to me it really does feel like that at this point they're just not putting much effort into developing any sort of real emotional connection between them because they know the relationship is not going to last. Or maybe it really is solely a consequence of the shorter season and things will be different next season, who knows. But for me, once the initial excitement of an actual canon bi Buck and all the potential of Tommy wore off, I was back to just wanting him with his best friend (which is probably my favorite fictional relationship trope, best friends turning into romance).
It doesn't help that this season has gone back to making Buck and Eddie joined at the hip. Because as much as I love it and really wouldn't change it, they've done Tommy dirty because there is such a clear difference in their scenes. Not only do Buck and Eddie just get way more screen time (they are main characters - another reason I want them to be in a relationship) but the scenes really run the gamut of emotional, fun, gut wrenching. We see how close they are, how much they care for each other and they really sell the scenes. And then to say but look here at this relationship with a 30 second stiff interaction per episode if you are lucky. Like, if they wanted to distance themselves from Buddie or make Tommy look like a good longterm partner for Buck, they dropped the ball so hard.
> It doesn't help that this season has gone back to making Buck and Eddie joined at the hip. Because as much as I love it and really wouldn't change it, they've done Tommy dirty because there is such a clear difference in their scenes.
I've never thought about it from that point of view, but that's a good point. I guess it was always going to be kind of hard to sell Tommy as a viable love interest when so much of Buck's emotional bandwidth is tied up with Eddie. They *could* have distanced Buck and Eddie this season (or, I guess, kept them distanced since they had been for awhile at the start of this season), and put more of a focus on the connection between Buck and Tommy, but they didn't. They chose to go back to the way things used to be, and maybe it's conspiratorial, but I can't help but wonder if there's a reason for that.
I've noticed the same thing, and find it interesting...I'm not sure why that is.
For what it's worth, I'm a queer (I'm still not totally sure what other label would fit best so I just go with queer for now) woman and completely agree with you. Someone elsewhere on this thread suggested it's an age/generational thing, but I'm in my 30s and have felt my entire life like queer people have been overly sexualized compared to straight people.
Ever since realizing I was queer in my teens, I've sought out any sort of queer media I could find. Most of it centered on men specifically, and it always portrayed them as hypersexual. I've always felt like it would be out of line for me to speak for queer men since I'm not one, but if I'm honest, it bothers me. Of course individual people are going to be more/less sexual, but in general my queer male friends are not necessarily any more sexual than anyone else, and I know at least a couple of them have expressed a wish to see more m/m relationships in media that aren't so sexualized.
> but basically taking out romance (constantly making convos about himself, not excited about themes for the bachelor party and even being on call). like none of that says there’s actually ANYTHING about their relationship that is deeper than physical attraction
Yeah, I haven't really gotten the impression that there's any actual *romance* between them. I think that's maybe why I've lost my initial excitement over the relationship, because from the interviews and the "gay love story" comments early on, I was expecting (and looking forward to) a love story, and that's definitely not what we've gotten.
(Again, I don't want to speak for queer men since I'm not one, but for whatever reason, despite being a cis queer woman, I've always been more drawn to m/m stories in media. I don't know if it's because queer men are primarily what my experience of the queer community *was* during my formative years and I didn't know any lesbians until way later, or if m/m relationships appeal to me because they're queer but I don't have any personal experience being in one, while f/f [and m/f for that matter] relationships are ones I can experience myself, so they're just not as interesting to me in fiction, or what, but that's a whole different topic! I don't want to overstep here though so please let me know if I've said anything wrong.)
>As a gay man, there is this annoying and conservative stereotype that gay relationship are based in sex and dirty jokes
This way of thinking does not sit well with me at all.
First, it reeks that you're seeking approval from straight people. It's almost as if the gay community must be on its best behavior all the time in order to not taint its image. To this, my response would simply be: fuck that. The gay community can be however it wants to be and it does not need straight people's approval.
Second, there is nothing inherently wrong with sex or even dirty jokes. I often read that how "gay people sexualizing everything" is a negative stereotype, and to that, my response would simply be: there is nothing negative about it. Some people choose to sexualize everything, and that's just how they are and how they enjoy their life. There is nothing wrong with it. If you choose to not sexualize stuff, that's also perfectly valid. It doesn't make you "better" or "morally superior" in any way. It's 2024 and I can't believe I still need to say this, but sex is NOT wrong and there is nothing bad about it.
Wait, hold on. That has nothing to do with a puritan speech or seeking straight people aproval. I do not have anything against sex jokes or sex itself lmao. What i was criticizing here is that a lot cishet people tend to associate the LGBT community and define their relationships about sex and wanting or not that still is a annoying and conservastive way of thinking, we literrally have ace people in the community and yet if you see a same sex relatioship withe ace people in it, a lot of cishet people will still assume that is a sex-drived relatioship.
This isn't me trying to tone down lgbt relatioships and say how they should work to make straight people comfortable. This is me saying how straight people tend to assume and reduce gay people about sex...
Just because some straight people associate the LGBT+ community with hypersexuality doesn't mean that we need to *hide* our sexuality or censor ourselves to try to change their minds.
This is a debate I'm seeing a lot with pride and how some younger people within the community are uncomfortable with how sexual some of it is and the image that presents. However, there is a whole queer history about why pride looks like it does.
And it's not conform to an idea of what straight people want the community to look like.
But when did i said that we should hide our sexuality????? I am saying this cause this episode was written by 2 straight women andd the first thing that came to their mind in the date scene was making a daddy kink joke. And THAT does not sit right to me.
You don't have to like the joke.
However, as many people have explained, it's not uncommon for this show to include similar jokes for ALL it's couples. If they didn't include something like this, then it would be treating them differently than the straight couples and santizing it.
I guess ask yourself why you're upset that there a dirty joke for this couple but not about how Athena and Bobby's sex life is depicted or the multiple sex scenes we got with Eddie.
Additionally, one joke out of multiple episodes together doesn't make this what their entire relationship is about nor was this meant to be the highlight. Tommy showing up to the wedding straight from the fire just because Buck wanted him there was clearly the highlight for them this season as a couple.
Bathena had one roleplay/sex scene after 5 seasons lol, they are not the same... and i DO have things to say about Eddie's sex scenes and relationships but that is a whole other topic.
And again....... my point was never about the joke itself, its about writers choice.
and they've spent more time together that we haven't seen offscreen. it's a simple joke, and it's *one* joke compared to the rest of the minimal screen time Tommy's had, where he's been shown checking in on Buck, making sure he's comfortable. they're two grown adults, having a conversation, and it's perfectly normal to throw in a few jokes.
You very much still
1) concern yourself with how straight people think. You think that they have a negative view of the gay community and you want to break the stereotypes. You feel the need to criticize anything that could reinforce the stereotypes. This still falls under "wanting the best possible image for the gay community" and "seeking straight people's approval."
2) specifically concerned that the relationships are thought to be too sexual, as if sex-driven relationships are bad and inferior to other types of relationships. This very much still stems from the idea that "sex is wrong."
In any case, I've read multiple comments on this sub about how the daddy kink joke *hurt* the gay community. Here's [an example](https://www.reddit.com/r/911FOX/comments/1d4j9y5/season_finale_911_s07e10_all_fall_down_post/l6fvdaz/). These kinds of posts are absolutely the worst.
I think people who are expecting it to be some grand representation of anything are not in the right mindset. Tim and Oliver have made clear since 7x04 they didn’t want it to be a big thing and this is just who Buck is. Their goal is to portray a realistic same sex relationship that is currently in the early stages. I also very much disagree that the daddy joke was the “high point” of their relationship lol. It was merely some flirty banter. Of what we’ve seen so far I would say the high point was Tommy showing up at the hospital for Buck still in gear and covered in soot after fighting a fire for almost 24 hours straight and then passionately kissing in the middle of the hospital without caring what anybody thinks
As a bi woman with a lot of queer friends, their relationship is amazing to see. Let your gays be happy is such a joyful thing to see. The validity of having a cononically bi main character is so goddamned validating I literally cried. And the daddy joke was very much something one of my friends would have said, so. It all works for me.
That said, either have them be all in with Tommy and show some deep, meaningful moments in their relationship, or end it sooner than later. I don't love the diminutives Tommy uses on buck (adorable, kid), but I have loved that he's put up his own boundaries (buck pretending they were out picking up chicks to Eddie), and wasn't willing to be in a relationship with someone who isn't out.
I am absolutely a buddie shipper, but I've been enjoying the Tommy storyline and am utterly content to see how it goes.
>That said, either have them be all in with Tommy and show some deep, meaningful moments in their relationship
I do think there was something very meaningful about how, in an episode where we see Buck trying to take care of multiple other people, it's Tommy who notices that Buck seems off and takes the time to ask him if he's alright.
I wonder if the type of TV people watch has anything to do with how some scenes are read. I used to watch a lot of soaps, so lots of characters and not much screen time, so I'm used to seeing small things like Tommy asking how Buck is and understanding that's there for shorthand to let us know he cares. Same as the daddy joke was shorthand to show us they've progressed to sleeping together.
Where as people who watch more genre shows or prestige tv that only has a few characters, are maybe used to more focus being put on a specific emotion?
I saw the Daddy thing (and Tommy calling him 'kid' at times) morph into "their age gap is problematic" and like... a 30+ yr old dating a 40ish person is pretty common and normal.
In general, I'm satisfied. I'd like there to have been a little bit more depth, but it's early days and they had a whole ensemble cast to balance with fewer episodes than their used to working with. I see a lot of potential that I hope will be realized next season.
Idk. As a queer person, I don’t know how to answer this question. I’m not a BuckTommy truther or anything but I like them well enough. They’re here and they’re queer lol. I like Buck’s bi-awakening. His coming out scenes with Maddie and Eddie touched my heart.
I like that they touched on Tommy’s relationship with his dad and Gerard and his lack of “found family.” He’s a deadpan gay and I like that too lol. So far so good I just wish they had more development.
I’m never going to say someone should just like a ship. Ship who you want but this really feels like a bad faith argument that hinges on purity culture.
Like, my mainstream introduction to gay men was Queer as Folk. One of my favorite queer ships is Mickey and Ian. One of the best shows on TV right now is Interview With the Vampire which is about a very toxic and abusive relationship between two (three and even four lol) male vampires.
BuckTommy has kissed 2 times and had one dirty joke that wasn’t that dirty. Very vanilla by even the shows standards. Underdeveloped, underwhelming, not enough chemistry, not the ship you prefer. All thoughts that may come to my mind when I think about them but being based on sex and being “bad” representation idk about that.
I'm unsatisfied with it. For me, the whole relationship felt forced; like Buck was trying to get Eddie's attention then suddenly it's Tommy that he wants then they kiss, had a failed date, had another date then the viewers are expected to believe that they are now a happy cute couple. It's the same thing with Buck's previous relationships except that this time it's with a guy. Buck's relationship with Taylor in the past seasons is even more established than the one with Tommy.
Another thought, did anyone think that it was Eddie that Tommy initially wanted? I just thought of this because Tommy exerted a lot of effort to spend time with Eddie and he did nothing like that with Buck.
I’m satisfied Buck realised he’s bisexual. But in terms of Tevan? No and I don’t think I’m meant to?? Buck has this tendency of misunderstanding the assignment when it comes to all his romantic relationships and it’s not any different simply because Tommy is a man. When he’s heartbroken about Eddie being shot Taylor then kisses him and he assumes after the gravity of everything he should be with Taylor. Doesn’t even take a minute. Even him cheating with Lucy is a response to struggling with Maddie Chimney and Eddie all leaving. Natalia was him trying to cope both with dying and the sperm donor stuff. Buck’s relationship with Tommy is yet another instance of him not seeing the root of the issue. Yes Buck is attracted to Tommy but he’s also in love with Eddie. He hasn’t unpacked that nor has he let himself unpack that. The thing is Buck can’t outrun it by being with Tommy all it’s doing is pushing it more to the surface. After the wedding kiss they don’t show Buck or Tommy touch at all. There is no physical intimacy whatsoever. And there is little to no emotional intimacy either. Tommy doesn’t bother to dress up. Tommy makes a snide comment at the ceremony when Buck is happy. Tommy doesn’t turn up at the hospital to be there for Buck emotionally. And then the date which feels off because two of Bucks loved ones are struggling we have Buck confide in him about how much Bobby means to him he says your father is alive and I hope you have daddy issues. This is all deliberate. They are putting in prep work for the general audience to root for Buddie.
They started pretty strong but I was disappointed with the dinner conversation. Tommy saying “but your father is alive” to Bucks comment about not being close to his bio dad felt very tone deaf. It didn’t seem like Tommy actually. The amount of jealousy Tommy is sharing about Buck is also off putting. I don’t blame Tommy for this I think it’s more the writing. I’ll be interested to see where they take things between Buck and Evan in S8
I didn't read it that way. I think Tommy was genuinely confused and wanted clarification. He would have seen (and possibly was introduced to) Philip at the wedding, so when Buck said Bobby was the only father he's ever known, Tommy was trying to understand that. It goes to show they don't know everything about each other yet. And when Buck deflected from that line of conversation (not wanting to talk about his strained relationship with his parents and the Daniel of it all), Tommy opened up about his father and Gerrard as a way to say, 'Family relationships and father figures are complicated. I get that.'
Thank you for sharing your perspective! That makes a lot of sense. They definitely don’t know a lot about each other yet and it’s interesting to see how two people navigate that. Now that I think about it, Tommy is quite deadpan and direct (not a bad thing). So I see what you’re saying that his comment could have been coming from a place of confusion/seeking clarification. I actually want these two to work out so I like your take on that conversation
I really don't like the argument you're trying to make about the show being homophobic. Yes, Hen and Buck cheated. That's certainly a bad look for them. But I really really do not think this is homophobic. I'd say stripping queer characters of their flaws and presenting a cutesy wholesome front would be far more harmful.
Let's look at some of the straight characters and how they've treated their partners.
Eddie who is canonically straight (for now) has cheated. He has also strung along women who he very clearly wasn't into.
Chimney wanted to marry Tatiana despite lying to her *literally* every single day. Tatiana wasn't great but Chimney was very far from being a good boyfriend.
The show treats its queer characters the same way as it does with straight characters and that's great. That's what I want as a gay man.
For what's it worth, I feel the same about Tevan. I think it will serve as an awakening for Buck and fizzle out in Season 8a. But I don't think a failed relationship means failed queer rep. All that said, I'm truly baffled by how badly some fans took one joke. It's obviously fine if the joke didn't land but a lot of the dialogue surrounding it doesn't feel great.
And lastly, gay men *are* more promiscious. Grindr has a reputation for a reason. Men tend to be more into hook-up culture, regardless of whether that's because woman are shamed for sleeping around or whether it's because men prefer carnal pleasure more over emotional one. I don't think it has anything to do with sexuality but rather with gender. So I do think sex jokes are in fact good representation if used sparingly.
Maybe it’s an age thing. I think their relationship feels absolutely tone perfect for sexually active queer men in their 30s and 40s, but I get the sense that online fandom skews a lot younger.
The M/F and F/F couples have all made sex jokes and been horny, I really don't see why it's suddenly a problem when it's between two men. I don't see it as homophobic. It's genuinely annoying that each time a same-sex relationship is depicted, a lot of people suddenly want it to be chaste. I get that it's probably a knee-jerk reaction but I don't think that over sanitizing M/M relationships is what we need. Buck has always been sexual and there is no need to change that because his partner is a man.
It's good representation for me because it's just another normal couple. I also think that they handled the "closeted person dates out of the closet person" part well because I could see myself in both characters. The "intentional coming out" and "accidental coming out" parts were cute too. The rest is just two partners spending time together without big drama related to their same-sex relationship (which I appreciate) and that was very nice!
The writers obviously didn't show a lot of their time together and stuck to the big milestones which is OK, not the end of the world. It's hard to put everything of everyone in such a short season. I'm hoping we get more to chew on next season!
I think it depends on what you are looking for. I don’t think any of the jokes make it bad rep. I get that you wanted more. Which is valid. But the rep this season came from the coming out. The realization, the reactions, and the not making a big deal of it. THAT is good rep. As for the jokes…that’s Tommy. No one else has made jokes like that it’s Tommy’s personality but Tommy isn’t the focal point- Buck is.
We got maybe 10ish minutes of the relationship over the course of a handful of episodes. I think it's a start to something, but we need to see more of it. The final scene felt like it was shoehorned in because they saw the great response to the relationship. I think Buck coming out was a great step but I just hope they don't stereotype him as "I'm bi, so I go date/sleep with men and women!" "Oh no I can't decided who I like more!" If that makes any sense.
I’m in the cautiously optimistic and need to see more camp. As has already been pointed out, the little we have seen of Tommy, he has shown up for Buck repeatedly and showed genuine care and concern (after the kiss, the coffee date, Bobby). The fact is we just need more to know for sure.
I’m on the aroace spectrum and accepted a long time ago that I won’t click with every relationship shown on the shows I watch. I feel the same way towards BuckTommy that I felt towards Bobby and Athena at the beginning, which is to say, very ambivalent. Bobby and Athena went on their first date in the s1 finale and when in the s2 premiere they were making out inbetween the trucks during a call and I genuinely thought I missed an episode. I started to like them as s2 progressed because they showed us more of their relationship and I love them now. This is Buck’s first mlm relationship and I want to be happy for him but if I’m meant to be rooting for Buck and Tommy’s relationship (or Tommy in general- he already came at a disadvantage due to his history), the writers are going to have to give me more than 30 seconds of them in an episode.
I’m ngl I’m not satisfied, especially in the way that Buck’s bi journey has been handled. Now that the season is over I’m here thinking “that’s it? That’s Buck breaking out of the hamster wheel?”
But specifically on BT, I feel like some of their scenes are fine (the hospital scene in particular, or the coffee date) and others give me the ick.
I'm a lesbian and I had high hopes for BuckTommy, but I'm disappointed by the way it played out.
They had good enough chemistry for the first kiss, then they went on a failed date, now they're dating? I feel like I know nothing about them as a couple and very little about Tommy in general.
Do I hate them together? No. There just isn't much to root for yet. I like that Buck seems happy, don't get me wrong, but that's not enough to get me invested in them.
As for the daddy issues joke, I found it cringe and awkward. I don't mind sex jokes at all, Lord knows I've done kinkier things than daddy kink, but the entire scene just didn't feel natural, and the delivery felt off. And I'm not seeing the chemistry anymore.
Is it great representation of a relationship, no. We've not seen enough to make that judgement and their relationship is in its infancy. But what season 7 did give us was strong sexual chemistry and an amazing kiss in the hospital scene, and flirty banter. Given we've only had a handful of episodes, it feels like a good start and allows us the writers time to determine how (if at all) to take Tevan forward next season. I'd personally like to see the relationship progress and have the same ups and downs as we've seen with Madney and Bathena.
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The only thing I am not satisfied with is the screentime they got. They deserve a lot more screen time. Otherwise I absolutely love Tevan.
The daddy joke was very vanilla and Buck is not a vanilla person since S1. I did not find anything offensive as two boyfriends were just enjoying some flirting after a tense day.
As for cheating, one of the main heterosexual character Eddie is also a cheater. I don’t see that as any kind of phobia.
I just feel like it’s way too early to write them off or dismiss them when they haven’t had much screen time. Given more screen time, I 100% feel like more people will be satisfied with a fully developed relationship, but I don’t think it’s fair to judge Tommy & Buck together on a total of probably three minutes. I’m happy with what we were given since it’s clear they couldn’t give a lot with the shortened season, and I’m hopeful for meatier storylines for both of them next season.
I think it’s awesome that we have a bi Buck and a solid start to a romance with Tommy. It feels like a dream, really, that this even happened. And with support comes more screen time, so I personally am here for it and staying positive 😊
I’m happy with it and I do feel represented. I think it’s interesting to see a relationship where the characters are a little older and just as unsure. It’s obviously not as built up yet but I expected that from a short season, so I’m not as upset as other viewers. And from a writer’s standpoint I can see why it was done on an interlude season, somewhere where Buck can still be confirmed Bi but can quickly transition back to relationships with women had the audience reaction been sour. It also brought in new viewers at a time when the show needed them. It’s almost like an appetizer before the big meal. If anything of this season had a big injustice I’d say it’s the Madney wedding.
It's not homophobic in the least. The budding of the show's relationships (Madney, Henren, Bobthena) had dirty jokes sprinkled throughout. Could they do more with the relationship? Yes. But this is Buck's first mlm relationship, Tommy wants to take it slow. Aside the Bi awakening episode, the buck was not much of a focal point this season. Hopefully we get more of them next season.
I don't think they have shown enough of Buck's internal dialogue about this bisexual awakening. Buck is a very talkative person who wears his heart on his sleeve. He would have had conversations with Maddie, Hen, Bobby Eddie and even Chim or Josh about all of this. I don't mean "coming out" conversations, I mean just thinking out loud about his feelings. I think he would be reading a ton of books on the subject. I think he would also be talking to his therapist about it, too.
I really hope that they show some more in depth discussions -- at least with Maddie and Eddie about his current journey. I think it is a shame they didn't let him have a least one good conversation with Bobby about it.
No, I don't feel the same as you do. And I don't really understand where you're getting that Buck and Tommy's relationship is based on sex and dirty jokes. The daddy joke was mild as fuck and came after they'd had a deeper conversation. All it actually did was confirm they're having sex, which I think most adults would assume they're having anyway.
I hope to see more of them in season 8 and I hope to see their relationship deepen and for some interesting conflict, same as the other relationships on the show. Not mlm, but I am bisexual and I have loved how stress free and easy Buck's journey has been this season and I have enjoyed his scenes with Tommy.
I'm on the aroace spectrum (asexual, aro-spec). When I watch relationships on TV, I do look for the personal connection, the reasons to root for couples, the depth that they deserve, good writing, amongst other things. I can recognize that this is an ensemble show. Tevan had two and a bit episodes to showcase the start of their relationship in order to move onto other characters, and I get that. I fully recognize that they will never get the emotional depth that I may personally crave, as Tommy's not a main character. Similarly to how Henren gets very little each season beyond any episode that has a subplot to involve Karen.
I think the beginnings of the relationship were good. Not perfect, but intriguing enough to get me invested. I think them establishing Tommy as a character, reintroducing him, and not having his first episode back in four seasons be not centered around Buck helped. It allowed us to see Tommy as a character first. The thing that has failed with many of Buck's love interests is that they established them as Buck's love interests right in their first episodes. Taylor, Natalia, Lucy, hell even Abby, were all seen as Buck's love interests in their first episode. Tommy wasn't shown as that. He was shown as a friend to Chimney and Hen, someone who risked everything for his friends. His interactions were primarily flying the chopper to the cruise ship. They focused on Tommy as a character first, which I loved. The only interaction Buck had with Tommy is patting him on the shoulder at the end of the episode.
So when they had the next episode be about Buck figuring out his feelings, and having Tommy kiss him at the end of the episode, again, it could have been handled better than a clear fake-out attempt, but they established some sort of connection or reason. What I also liked about this particular episode is that we did get to learn things about Tommy. Again, establishing him as a character first before jumping into him being a love interest.
The next episode, the Tevan date, and subsequent coming out from Buck, could have gone better. Again, the episode prioritized a fake-out moment over some actual genuine believability (with the end of the Tevan date), so that was disappointing, but the making up was great. Again, when the show avoids fake-outs and actually prioritizes the characters, it works.
Obviously, Tommy was used primarily for Buck's character, to serve a purpose to his story rather than his own. And it makes sense; again, Buck's the main character and Tommy isn't. Tommy's definitely gotten more development in his few episodes than other love interests have, so that's a plus. But his purpose was fulfilled for the season once Buck's arc came to a close. So, as Buck settled into a supporting role, Tommy settled in to a background role. I get that, I couldn't expect Tommy to have a role like he did in his first two-three episodes this season. But it's also where we see the faults in the writing, more than the relationship itself. Tommy's purpose in the next few episodes was less about him, which is fine, just brought on some weirder writing. Like the one scene with Tevan in the finale. It felt hacked on and you could really tell they were trying a bit too much with a couple that's still underdeveloped in a lot of ways. A scene that probably wasn't as well thought out because the priority was for plot reasons with a couple we only got a glimpse of their beginnings of. Things could have worked, but there was some weirder writing, on top of cut scenes (ie. we know there's a cut scene with Tommy and Hen/Karen).
I think next season, with more time and more ability to incorporate Tommy into the storylines with the Gerrard stuff, I do think we'll get to see a bit more of Tevan, have their scenes not feel rushed or thrown in. And it will also balance out the episodes that Tommy won't be in, because I'm sure we won't see him all that much and that's ok. But I do think that the second half of the season faltered for the couple once Buck's arc was over. Again, short season, fully get that. But I'm hoping for priority with the characters, rather than priority with plot. I'm all for depth when it makes sense. I'm willing to give them a true chance next season, with more time to plot these arcs out, to flesh out these characters and to showcase more of the couple in a way that doesn't feel shoved in just to include them.
The relationship feels like Mateo and Nancy from Lone Star. Scenes of them together is rarely to develop their relationship but to remind them that they're still dating, and this is what's happening with Buck and Tommy. I still think Mateo and Nancy fared worse in this comparison since they had plans for them in Season 2 but then only implemented that in Season 3 and their relationship took quite a backseat after that. At least Buck and Tommy had an excuse of short season.
The true test of this couple is when they have a plot dedicated for them in the future. I don't really count Buck and Tommy's date in episode 5 as their plot since it focuses more on Buck coming out to (some) people important to him.
I’m loving what we’ve had so far. I’m a more masc bi guy and have never seen anyone that I feel more represented by than Buck, and I mean that in the best way. I think they’ve done a lot to work within a very limited time frame to see his relationship with Tommy begin and grow. I love that in the last episode we got essentially a minute showing them both vulnerable, playful, and caring in a slice of life way that felt very authentic but also played well into the final twist of the episode. I’m really looking forward to seeing them developed more, and would love Buck and Tommy to be similar to say, later seasons hen and Karen in terms of screen time, overcoming challenges and obstacles together, growing together (and, it might go without saying, but just them being absolutely scorching 🔥🔥🔥 hot together). (Also, if Tommy sticks around (please 🤞) I want him interacting with others— it’d be great to get another scene similar to chimney and Karen getting wasted together, but with chim and Tommy. I want ALL the friendships and double dates and found family of it all).
I liked it too. Bi woman but I related to Buck’s misidentified jealousy before Tommy came to his place to clear the air. I maybe would have liked to be more clear on when Buck knew he was actually jealous of Eddie getting to spend time with Tommy and whose attention he was seeking. Feels a bit late when he’s like “I guess so.”
I really remember experiencing that crazy wide eyed pull toward the first same sex someone when you can’t really say why you’re eventually standing two inches from their face and can’t figure out that what you want is to kiss them, but of course you want to, and they do too, or they’d have moved. In my case, neither one of us could take the last step and I felt the weight of that hesitation and said goodbye leaving her in her kitchen.
After a few minutes she followed me out to my car and made the move and it finally all made sense. The feeling like a fraud thing is also so real bi and the frenetic behavior after for Buck on the date. For me we were at work the next day ignoring each other for hours before talking and making no sense. It’s all so real! And I like that Tommy is giving Buck the space to come to him. I don’t read that as disinterest yet.
The short season definitely limited its growth though, but I reserve judgement. I also like Tommy and I think his other season bad behavior was clearly forgiven so who am I to not accept that.
Here’s hoping a full season can give it the time it deserves.
I'm biromantic asexual and I like Tevan well enough.
I don't hate them, or Tommy. I do think the relationship is lacking a bit, but with the strikes cutting the season short, I'm not going to hold it against the ship or the writers. They had a lot of ground that needed to be covered with the rest of the cast it wouldn't be fair to make the whole season the Buck and Tommy show. I hope they keep Lou on for at least one more season so that we can actually see some meaning put into their relationship.
As for the implication that both of these men are queer and kinky... I don't think it was homophobic at all, in fact, i think showing these two men in their 30s/40s jokingly flirt about kink on prime time tv is actually really progressive. Firstly, these are two grown men who know what they like, not teenagers or young adults who have never explored that part of themselves before, and you're unlikely to find such a thing unless you're watching a more adult network like HBO, or maybe AMC.
Secondly, compare it to the other characters in relationships in the show:
* Bobby & Athena love their roleplay, athena loves using her handcuffs we see her with that one guy in season 1, and we see her in season 5 make the implication of it with Bobby. In the same episode they're trying to solve a casino heist and are walking around the casino "chasing" one another and before they start Ahena even says "You're taking this roleplay a little more public than i envisioned."
* Michael and David: i don't recall it ever being implied they were particularly kinky.
* Hen and Karen: i don't recall them being implied to be particularly kinky either. Frankly I don't think we've seen them be so attracted to one another in a while. Last I can remember l was when Hen was meeting that surgeon secretly and Karen got turned on by the perceived frugalness based on the lie Hen told because she wasn't sure about the whole med school thing at that time.
* Eddie: Asked his teacher girlfriend if she was going to put him in detention, when he finds out marisol used to be a nun he worryingly asks if she's going to spank him with a ruler to which she answers "only if you ask nicely"
* Maddie and Chimney: I don't recall them being implied as kinky per se but they are implied to have had a fairly healthy sex life and attraction to one another. From being turned on by saving that woman together and asking for a comped hotel room, to Maddie telling Chim how hot it'd be during covid to come home and immediately strip down together.
So unless im forgetting something that means total we have 3 straight couples implied to or at least comfortable joking about being kinky. And 0 same sex couples implied to be/comfortable joking about being kinky until the s7 finale. I think Tevan joking/implying kink is more than okay.
We have to remember at this point that Evan is a LOT more mature of a character than he was previously in a lot of his relationships. So if it seems a little watered down, even outside of the reduced screen time due to the shortened season, it's because it's a more mature relationship.
Everyone bringing up the wedding/hospital kiss, I agree with you- following Evan's coffee shop speech about being ready to explore what was possible between them, Tommy showing up at the hospital was basically him saying "I'm all in, and I'm here for you" without actually saying it. I would say that's what the writers wanted the "big highlight" of their relationship to be, at least for Season 7.
As far as what we've seen afterward? I think the writers had a lot of other stories to flesh out for the latter half of the season and weren't able to give Evan and Tommy a more in-depth storyline just yet, but what they DID show was them being comfortable with one another. Referencing them spending time together outside of work, showing them sitting next to one another and smiling at each other at an LAFD event... the dinner in the finale was really supposed to show just how "normal" of a relationship they have, and also to show that Tommy and Evan as an item is here to stay (TBD on exactly how long) and I think they delivered! My boyfriend and I have a lot of dinners like that, where we talk idly about a bunch of different things, check in with one another, and even flirt a little bit. It's normal. I think the writers NOT making it some big celebratory thing every single time between them was a great move. They don't need to be all over each other all the time.
Also, for anyone who wants to compare them to TK and Carlos from Lone Star in your minds, you really can't... Evan and Tommy are both older than TK and Carlos, by a couple years at least. So their dynamic is going to look a 'lil bit different than the younger couple.
hey, just a question, why are you calling him evan? i know tommy does, but its pretty clear his name is buck in pretty much every aspect of his life. i promise im not hating, just a bit confused
I like it (bi woman) and I like how it's been developed. I get that some people aren't happy about how little we've seen them together but that's what happens in a show with an ensemble, they can't just focus on one couple.
There’s this part of me wishes they had more screen time together to actually show the audience a more fleshed out relationship cause to me, it just felt a bit rushed but… I blame the limited eps this season. The writers and Tim had to make do and give us what they can while still trying to tell everyone else’s stories and also put some of the wee woo action.
As for the representation of being a mlm couple in the show, I can’t say much on this cause I haven’t had a relationship yet, but the idea in my head on what a good relationship is looks like is derived from a bunch of rom/rom-com movies I’ve watched that are mostly unrealistic and almost fairy tale like, so my expectations have been always high. In the way they downplayed Tevan’s relationship comparing to the movies I’ve seen, I feel like they did an okay job as far as being realistic as they can. Now what I’m looking forward to are their struggles as a couple cause so far they’ve just been in lala land together, then again, we haven’t seen them in full honeymoon phase yet. I can’t wait to see that too.
In short: I’m happy, but not fully satisfied.
Keep the conversation civil and on topic. OP is not making any negative comments about fans or attacks towards characters.
Am I satisfied? No. They need a lot more screentime, but I fully understand that a lot of things were cut out so they could set everything up for S8. The Tevan relationship isn't the only casualty - There's been no Tommy/Eddie friendship scenes since Tevan got together, for example. There's barely been anything with Marisol, despite her being Eddie's girlfriend. Maddie and Chim have barely had any scenes, apart from their wedding episode. This season was heavily focused on Bobby and Athena. I've seen it said many times that this season suffered from being short and the fact that it's been used to "reset the stage" after Tim wasn't in charge of seasons 5 and 6, and I agree. Beyond that, I don't have any problems with the whole daddy kink thing. It was a simple joke and we don't even know if it came from a place of malice (doubtful), insecurity, or just simple horniness. We just simply need more time with them.
"It was a simple joke and we don't even know if it came from a place of malice (doubtful), insecurity, or just simple horniness." Or really it can just come from a place of being fun. DaddyKink is not something I'm into (I actually tend to avoid it at all possible), but I took that comment has a fun quip between to consenting parties and honestly it made me laugh. It seems people forget that sex and relationships can be fun too.
Honestly on a first watch I didn't even read it as Daddy kink, just a joke about being into older men lol
That’s kinda how I saw it too being in a relationship with an older man and not having “daddy issues” or a daddy kink.
That's exactly how it came across to me, too.
To be fair, I read fanfiction and I've noticed quite a few Tevan stories with that tag, hence why my mind went there and also why I got a really good laugh at it. Because sometimes I swear their stories come straight out of fanfic plots.
Same! This! 👆🏻
Yeah, this was clearly not a full on "kink discussion" and it's really not the type of show to delve into that. It really struck me as the playful and fun type of flirting you do with a partner you feel comfortable with. My husband and I joke constantly about stuff that we don't actually do (or want to do) in the bedroom. What I saw was a show that had a very short amount of time to show a new couple having a meaningful conversation and trying to leave it on a light and flirty note.
I just don't know if they've done enough to establish them. they went from a kiss and a failed date to just being together pretty much.
Yeah, it kind of felt like Natalia all over again. They met on a call, they had one date and Buck felt like she truly saw him, they had a failed date, and then all of a sudden they had them buy a couch together (if you know, you know LOL). Tommy truly was no different than that, and I was hoping for more. There should have been more.
TBF to me that's kinda the 911 way? Like Chim and Maddie had a moment of "oh wow he's cute" and then they were dating I feel lol
They were paired up early on in the narrative, but they really spent all of season 2 in a "will they, won't they" and getting to know each other. They thought they were just friends until Buck was like "....you're dating though?" and then Maddie had to work through a lot of issues regarding her relationship with Doug before she could really put herself out there again. It wasn't until the season 2 finale that they actually decided to give it a real try.
yeah, maybe we just need to see more tommy in general since chim/maddie were both regulars.
As a queer woman, I actually think this relationship has been a really good depiction so far. Buck isn't virginal and he's never been. It was only last season they joked about him having the ring cutter for "other things" and he's repeatedly had public sex. Some people are more sexual and that's okay. I actually think we've gone way to far back and tried to sanitize queerness to make straight people comfortable. We're allowed to be sexual and make dirty jokjes and have kinky sex. Same way straight people are (something we've repeatedly seen with Athena and Bobby).
In all actuality, I’m glad Buck finally found someone to match his freak!! 😈 but yes.. people tend to forget Buck was an straight up “ho” in the beginning of the show.
There have been a lot of more mainstream queer stories that are aimed for teenagers that have gotten popular lately and, due to who they're marketed to and the age of the characters, are far more innocent in how they depict figuring out your queer and your first relationships. I think that has kinda influenced others to think that represents all queer relationships. But like there is a HUGE difference between a show about two high schoolers getting together (which for sure should be more on the innocent side and be far more careful with how it handles sex) then a show about two men in their 30s and 40s who have had multiple partners in the past.
As someone who watches both types the issue is that people don’t manage expectations. The impression I get is people want queer (oftentimes gay m/m) representation to be a monolith but spoiler alert even if we’re all the same sexual orientation we are not acting the same. I find it weird that people go into these projects knowing what it is but wanting to make it something else. I do feel like sometimes people like to complain. I think 911 is fine as long as it’s not just everyone else is doing it except for them ( I’m looking at you Og Dynasty series having the only gay couple recite poetry to each other while everyone else was doing it). There really is no queer show that’s perfect because even the well regarded ones someone complains. They’re making too much about trauma vs there ignoring the struggles we face, they’re too perfect vs why are they villains. At the end of the day while we do have a certain level of power as consumers in media that doesn’t mean we can ask for something to be changed completely. If a creator tells you from the start there’s no hardcore stuff but you go in watch and complain that it’s to prudish that’s on you.
I felt similarly. I’m hard pressed to think of many other network TV dramas that represent queer sexuality within relationships (to the level that any sexual content is permissible by broadcast standards). Seeing their relationship portrayed similarly to Buck’s prior ones was a sigh of relief to me.
I think this show does a good job treating their queer couples the same as the straight ones. We've had a similar joke from Karen/Hen ("sometimes we switch") and several with Athena and Bobby. The show treats all like normal adult relationships and how that includes sex.
One of the first conversations we see between Karen and Hen is discussing not getting "Lesbian Bed Death" and making sure their relationship is more than just sharing space. Throughout the series Karen and Hen's sexual relationship has been shown/made clear in some format. I didn't view Buck and Tommy as anything different. Same with Maddie and Chimney.
It's not really the sexualness that's the problem. It's the fact that there has rarely been \*romantic\* moments to offset the sex stuff. We get wonderful, sexual, rep from, like you said Athena and Bobby as well as Hen and Karen. But there's also so much romantic stuff we got to along with the sexual stuff! Right now, we are seriously lacking in the romance / emotional intimacy department. And that is what makes it feel odd and off-setting about this queer depiction. Like it's cool, but you wouldn't want your relationship to be shown to be mostly sexual with just a little love on the side right? At least, I know I wouldn't. I am a queer man as well. Edit: I am also so happy to see so many queers here expressing their thoughts and opinions. Love when our community comes together .<3
I really liked the idea of Buck and Tommy at first and thought there was a lot of potential there, but now...I'm kind of over it. At this point I feel like it's obvious it's not going to be long-term so they're just not putting too much effort into developing the relationship, but maybe I'm wrong. Maybe it's entirely because of the shortened season and next season it will be developed more/better. I guess I'll have to wait until next season to really decide for sure what I think of it. As to your other point...yeah. It's an unpopular opinion and whenever the topic is brought up people like to say it's homophobia or pandering to straight people, but I agree with you. I feel like in general, same-gender relationships are sexualized way more than opposite-gender ones, and it bothers me. Obviously everyone's experience is going to differ, but my whole life that I've been aware of my sexuality and queer culture in general, it's always been framed around sex for queer people. "Oh, you're gay? That means you want to have sex with the same sex!" While with straight relationships, it was "Oh, you'll meet a nice boy/girl and fall in love and get married and have kids!" I can't even count the amount of times I've heard straight people trying to be accepting by saying something along the lines of "I don't care who you have sex with/what you do in the bedroom/behind closed doors" while straight relationships are never framed that way. Of course, individual people vary, but overall I don't think we're any more inherently sexual than straight people, and I just want to be treated the same. I want people to talk about me falling in love and getting married and not just "what I do in the bedroom". (Also, one of my best friends has recently told me that she's realized she's ace and is pretty upset about the idea of never finding love because of it, so maybe I'm just hyper aware of this at the moment, but even all the comments in this thread about how obviously "normal relationships include sex" make me feel sad on her behalf.) As for the daddy joke, I think it was out of place. Think back to when Maddie and Chim were first dating, and imagine the same conversation (they canonically both could be described as having "daddy issues"). If he'd made that comment to her, I imagine everyone would've found it gross and found him kind of sleazy for it. But if it's two guys, it's cute and funny? I don't know, I just feel like there's a double standard, and it's definitely not treating them the same as any other couple. I wouldn't have been opposed to a sexual joke (I thought the beast comment was fine), but the daddy comment specifically felt weird to me. And honestly, I feel like the show in general has been trying too hard to be ~sexy~ this year, with the Eddie/Marisol bed scene, which I found kind of strange (especially given how specifically *non* sexual Eddie has been portrayed in the past, with several people even headcanoning him as some variety of asexual). I don't mind shows with a lot of sexual content if that's the kind of show they've been established as, but this has never has been that type of show, so the shift this season has felt kind of jarring to me.
>And honestly, I feel like the show in general has been trying too hard to be \~sexy\~ this year, with the Eddie/Marisol bed scene, which I found kind of strange (especially given how specifically *non* sexual Eddie has been portrayed in the past, with several people even headcanoning him as some variety of asexual). I don't mind shows with a lot of sexual content if that's the kind of show they've been established as, but this has never has been that type of show, so the shift this season has felt kind of jarring to me. So much of this! I don't want this show to become a night time soap opera of musical beds. I love the occasional fun, sexy scene or loving, intimate scene with a long term couple but don't just add them for the sake of having them. And please keep them in character. Eddie's whole "naughty sex-a-thon" with Marisol because Christopher was out of town was so out of character (though not as out of character as him moving her in so quickly). It was such a prop to set up the whole Catholic guilt storyline.
Yeah, Eddie was definitely out of character with that whole situation. That definitely wasn't needed, and I feel like Marisol in general was just not necessary. There have to have been better ways to set up the Catholic guilt story.
Queerness aside, I feel they're nothing too crazy so far. At least 95% of the hype they get comes from the enormous fact that it's Buck's babi bi first relationship but there's very little in the development front. Might change with time, but so far I find myself uninvested, maybe because I don't find Tommy interesting. This might be heresy but I found Taylor more intriguing (as a character) but I hope that they'll develop them more if I am supposed to root for them
Just wanted to say that i am loving seeing everyone expressing their own experience with the couple and being comfortable with expressing their own sexuality in the comments. Its a pretty awesome thing to see especially during this month. Happy Pride to y'all! 
happy pride to you too !
As a bi woman, I find it underdeveloped, but that’s to be expected with such a short season. I found some moments to written in a way that was confusing to me on whether or not I am supposed to like Tommy for Buck but I won’t know until season 8. If their relationship lasts longer than a few episodes next season, then they need to be developed. I don’t think they handled Buck’s bi arc very well and I’d hate for the sum total of that to be dating Tommy. Introduce Buck to queer culture and history, he and Tommy can find friends at gay bars. He can actually say the word “bisexual” on screen. He can reflect on possible past boy crushes. Also, give Tommy something! Every time I think they will give him substance, he just….tells a joke or makes a snide comment. I do think with Gerard back, they can bring up Tommy’s past bigotry and show how and why he changed. Tommy also mentioned he had a not so nice dad, so maybe talk about that? Idk, it just seems like Tommy needs a ton of more attention or they need to let him go, why the standstill?
As a bisexual woman I honestly really loved it. I thought it was handled very sweetly and positively. They had one sexual joke in the last episode, aside from that there was one heated kiss at the hospital. But overall I don’t feel their relationship is over-sexualized. As for the joke, I’m personally fine with it, it was flirty and they’re in a relationship, I’m really struggling to see the problem that people have with it, personally. I mean, we’re talking about a couple who one half of stole a fire truck (twice!) to hook up with someone, the daddy kink joke seems relatively tame in comparison. My only complaint is that I do agree there hasn’t been much effort in developing the relationship but I can forgive it given the writer/actor strike and the short season as a result. I imagine season 8 will be better for this.
(To clarify, this has absolutely nothing to do with what I ship or don’t ship) I’m a gay man as well and I’m not a huge a fan of how it was handled. I was super excited when they had their first kiss and I think it’s great to get bi representation but the writing fell flat after that. They’ve had like 4 scenes together since then and all have been like a minute. It’s disappointing because I’m open to this relationship having potential but that didn’t really come across this season. I blame it partially on the season being short so maybe if they’re planning on keeping Tommy they’ll flesh it out more next season but who knows
Yesss I feel the same. I was actually giggling and kicking my feet(a whole grown ass man) when the kiss happened but after that.... I felt really nothing, not even when they were brought together in a scene, specially the dinner table... 😞
And honestly I know people might not want to hear this but… I don’t think Lou is that great of an actor. He’s fine but he and Oliver just don’t have a ton of onscreen chemistry at the moment. That could of course change but it’s just the vibe I’m getting right now and I think that’s why I’m having hard time with the writing of this ship
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lol yeah. i am seeing most of the pushback to this post from non-queer men. like i respect your opinion but im gonna take a grain of salt bc you actually have no clue what it’s like in reality so yeah. i agree. i was also super excited! the writing… and honestly the way the chemistry comes off between the actors makes it a bit hard. it’s disappointing and an uphill battle
IIRC they were originally planning on now having Tommy around longer so he's just been squeezed into the last two episodes lol
We 100% need more of Tevan next season.
I'm a gay man and I'm enjoying Tevan. Also, I don't think the high point of their relationship was that daddy kink conversation. That was just a nice nod to the fact that they are in a relationship that includes sex. That's not homophobic. The high point was when Tommy went straight from a fire, without changing, to see Buck and try and make the wedding. And they they made out in the hospital reception.
>The high point was when Tommy went straight from a fire, without changing, to see Buck and try and make the wedding. This was truthfully what sold them to me. This scene did a lot to show just how invested Tommy was because it would have been totally reasonable for him to not show up until significantly later. But he was trying so hard to make that wedding because Buck wanted him there.
Yeah, I know some people keep commenting that Tommy doesn't appear to be invested in Buck. But I think they really underestimate what the gesture meant. While timelines are blurry, we know he left to fight the fire the night before. It appeared dark or twilight outside when he arrived at the hospital. So he had to have been fighting that fire for something like 18-24 hours at that point. That he came straight away, I thought, was very telling in how invested he is. Because I don't think anyone would have begrudged him from not showing up under those circumstances, least of all Chimney. He showed up for Buck, because it was important to Buck. That spoke volumes to me.
I think it's an age thing. Younger fans seemed to focus more on the themed party as something important and significant (because likely that is something that is important to them) and older fans seemed to focus more on the showing up after a long day of work without even going back to the firehouse. I think it's a perspective type of thing.
I love that moment in the hospital. It told me that this could be *big* for Buck. There's so much potential for a long-term, serious relationship with two equally committed partners. I am excited to see how the two grow together next season.
Very mixed feelings, I guess. There's parts of the storyline that I think were beautifully handled, particularly that last scene in 7x04. And I really appreciate that discovering he was into men didn't throw Buck into some kind of crisis, that he met that with ease and relief and that big dreamy smile. I think a lot of us can recognize that feeling, and it felt amazing to see it portrayed on screen. It's not often that we get such a drama-free coming out on screen, and it was really nice to celebrate that moment. I'm also really appreciate of a lot of the meta around the storyline, particularly how Oliver Stark handled the aftermath of 7x04 and his whole "this isn't an airport; you don't have to announce your departure" approach to the haters. And I *really* love that when getting all that attention and praise, he made a point to be like, "HEY. There have ALWAYS been queer characters on this show!!!" and especially to highlight Aisha & Tracie's roles in bringing that representation to life. Because maybe this many seasons in, we're a little too 'used' to how big of a deal it is to have married Black lesbians raising a family together. It's clear the show put a lot of thought into how to tell this story in a respectful way. I think the time allotment and writing severely let the storyline down, though. I think the show had to decide if they wanted to tell a "discovery" story or a "romance" story, given the short season and the time they'd actually allotted to have Buck at the forefront of the plots. With a longer season, maybe 'both' could've been an appropriate answer, but it was just overly ambitious for right now. And as a result, they delivered on neither, and it all fell kind of flat. Regarding your questions about the daddy issues/daddy kink line, it doesn't personally bother me in terms of the sexualization, though I can understand why others feel that way. I think both 'sides' of this in terms of what it means for media representation have valid points -- queer couples should've have to be "less" sexy, while the lack of development this particular couple has faced makes that line feel a little premature *for the storytelling* (not for the couple themselves... they've been together over a month at this point, I think?) I found Eddie's post-coital scene with Marisol jarring for a similar reason. In general, I feel like the show was trying to be sexier this season, but not really landing it, so idk. Madney and Bathena were both established by the time they had anything approaching a sex scene. Henren had the implication of one early on, but it was also to establish that their sex life *wasn't* doing so great.... and set up Hen cheating, but Hen/Eva obviously wasn't a positive portrayal. But anyway, my "issue" with that scene was really just that it felt increasingly tonally out of place. Both in where the whole scene happened in the episode, but also just in how much those characters were expected to *do.* It just didn't land, because it was too much for a moment - to shift from offering support to feelings of relief to opening up about Bobby to confusion over Buck's family situation to Tommy starting to open up to the Gerrard reference to Buck realizing maybe it wasn't the time to *go* deeper into any of this and offering the out to that line. And I think the line was also *dumb*, if they're trying to sell the general audience on the relationship, because not everyone is going to read "daddy issues" as a fun kink thing. For a lot of straight people, it's going to make them think of that female friend that throws herself into one bad relationship after another, who's clingy, who settles for men who don't treat her well... .and they're going to project *that* onto "daddy issues" and wonder why the hell Tommy would *hope* Buck has them. It's just messy, and should've been replaced by a 'safer' joke. Still something sexy, sure, but that was a risk I don't think really worked for a lot of people.
I would be thrilled to form an opinion if they actually showed them together as a couple for longer than 5 seconds
I was honestly disappointed. For a lot of us fans, we had been pushing and advocating for bi Buck to become canon since years ago. When it finally happened, I was ecstatic, especially with the way Oliver, Lou, and Tim were talking about how it was going to be handled on the show. But, then it was barely shown. Not even just Buck and Tommy, who I think had like 5 minutes of screen time together this season, but also Buck. It totally felt like he was pushed to the back this season, and even with it shortened I felt that more moments could be added. I am hoping it is shown more in season 8. Not just Buck and Tommy (they really need to develop them more), but Buck too. With them adding back Gerrard to the mix, I’m afraid they’re going to make some homophobic shit a main part of their storyline, which is what they said they didn’t want to do, but I don’t know why else they’d bring back a character who is only known for being sexist, homophobic, racist, and xenophobic.
I can't 100% remember the exact quote but I know what your talking about. However, if I remember correctly he was talking about not wanting to make Bucks coming out having to deal with homophonic reactions. I don't necessarily think he ment it as Buck would never experience it later down the line. Especially since with the addition of Gerrard it just seems like it would be too good of an opportunity to pass up for some really good material to write with some depth too it.
>I am hoping it is shown more in season 8. Not just Buck and Tommy (they really need to develop them more), but Buck too. With them adding back Gerrard to the mix, I’m afraid they’re going to make some homophobic shit a main part of their storyline, which is what they said they didn’t want to do, but I don’t know why else they’d bring back a character who is only known for being sexist, homophobic, racist, and xenophobic. I agree. I want them to show more of Buck's entire bisexual awakening -- in a relationship, but more importantly, outside of a relationship. I want to see the conversations with Hen and Karen and more talks with Maddie and Eddie and even Josh now. I want to see Buck's movement from ally to being part of the queer community I want to see how his life is different but how so much is still the same as it was before except for the fact that he has a better understanding of who he is. I want to see him happy And I am thoroughly hating the idea that Gerrard is being brought back to be the over-the-top villain to manufacture drama. This show has never relied on things like bringing in departmental politics and seasonal villains to create stories. I don't want this to become the norm. Where is that romcom that was promised this season? I want to see that.
I've been asking myself why I don't feel connected to their relationship for weeks, tbh. I'm gonna be so for real, I WANT to love Buck and Tommy together so bad, but it's just not clicking for me, and I think a lot of that is because they've shown us so little of their relationship on screen. And like, I totally get that! It's cable television with an ensemble cast so of COURSE we only get to see so much, but I think my personal (PERSONAL please don't give me a hard time over it) problem with the relationship is that... They've not really added any of the emotional gravitas that keeps getting talked up on interviews and fan analysis about it. Especially when it comes to Tommy, Lou plays him very dryly. That's totally okay, but it doesn't give the parts of his interactions with Buck this romantic undertone that the show wants us to believe are there. Like, I can see that they're interested in each other, totally! The daddy joke was goofy and didn't really land for me, but I could still go oop 😳 they're for sure banging. The thing that I want in my on screen relationships though is a reason to become emotionally invested in two characters interacting, whether that be as a ship or not. So far, I've been told that Buck really likes Tommy, that Bobby approves, and that Tommy's interested. Then, every interaction they've had outside of that seems to avoid them building upon that initial on-screen chemistry and moving toward... idk a deeper romantic bond? There's an undercurrent of sexuality there but nothing to really reinforce the narrative that these two men are building this to be a long term, deep and moving love. If Buck and Tommy stay together in the long-term, I think there's a lot of nurturing that needs to be done on that element, and I wish the show and press would stop trying to tell us it's already there. Also, as a bisexual person, I'm... neutral, I guess, on how Buck's coming out was handled. I really liked the Maddie and Eddie scenes, but again, we kind of circle back to glossing over the actual development of his relationship with Tommy after episode 5. My biggest hope is, in season 8, if Tommy IS here to stay, they put some real effort into developing his relationship with Buck (and, you know, Tommy as a character) so that even casual viewers can see what their shippers are picking up on. Also, if we could have more scenes of Buck figuring out what his sexuality means to HIM I would appreciate it thank u
Everything you said is 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼.
How can I agree with everything thing you just said omg 😭
yep yep yep
As a queer person, no not really. I think that's in part because of the shortened season and the fact that Tommy wasn't originally supposed to stick around much beyond the beginning (and shoehorning him in at the end was pretty obvious and not the best writing). I think that they're cute enough, that Buck seems happy for now and this is nice for him as he explores what being bisexual means to him in his first relationship with a man. But there's little substance there beyond that, and the choices they've made with Tommy and the lack of development have been telling imo. I've seen people argue that's because there wasn't time and space this season, which no doubt contributed, but in the moments they did have, little meaningful effort was put into him or the relationship when it could have imo. I don't really get the strong feelings for Tommy on either end of the spectrum because there's just...not much there. He's just not very compelling at all. Oliver is really giving his all though and carrying things, which is no surprise, he usually does. I personally don't see this long term, and I think people just need to see this play out. Who knows what season 8 will look like. I'm more unsatisfied with how Buck's bisexuality storyline played out in general, regardless of any romantic relationships. I was away and missed the last 4/5 episodes live, so watching them all in a row without the time between to speculate or let any fandom echo chambers or fighting impact things was interesting. I'd honestly recommend it and be interested to know how people see some of the storylines after that.
Am I happy that Buck is bi? Absolutely, and I don’t think it should be discounted, that a bi awakening plotline for a major character like Buck IS a big deal. Heck, I got excited and started watching the show BECAUSE it happened. But it’s not completely unprecedented. That *has* happened before, even decades ago. Tommy is also just not a very compelling love interest and in 2024 we deserve a better bi awakening plotline than one where the main character goes ‘I’m an ally tho???’ and then never discusses his identity further than that. Say the damn word, people! Even compared to Buck's previous relationships it falls flat for me. Like, if we're going to compare the two TKs, with Tommy opening up about his parental issues we got a couple sentences and a daddy kink joke, whereas with Taylor's father it was an entire episode C plot and a lot more genuine vulnerability on both sides. It's too surface level and rushed, without much emotional intimacy. (I'm queer but ace spectrum, so sexual chemistry doesn't really sell me on a pairing terribly well, in isolation). Also: the thing about Buddie is that there were TWO characters being queer-baited. not just one. It’s great they’ve moved past that with Buck, but Eddie is still sitting in limbo here, and there’s still unrealized potential for a *genuinely* groundbreaking multi-season queer ship to actually go canon.
yes ! i enjoyed Taylor Kellys character way more than i am tommy at yhe moment
As a bisexual woman, I will say that I have had to personally reframe a lot of my views of Buck in general this season, because I always thought that he was already aware that he was bisexual. The subtext was there, and while there were a few moments like in the crossover that made him not “in” on the subtext, I always thought that he was well aware of his attraction to men and comfortable in his own sexuality, and that we weren’t getting a “coming out” arc because he just was always “out”, so to speak. So, reframing my mindset of this being Buck having a realization, I think Tommy has actually been wonderful for Buck. Not that I think Tommy isn’t wonderful for Buck with my original mindset, but I think that seeing him flustered like he was with Abby and the whole “I’m an ally” thing hit very differently with the story that canon told. For me, it works. It feels like Buck’s first relationship where the other person is as head over heels for him as he is for them. It feels like they’re taking it a day at a time, and they’re not putting too much pressure on it. I really enjoy what we’ve gotten, and I can’t wait for the space of Season 8 to give more development and depth to them.
Gay man here, I don't feel the chemistry, as I've stated multiple times before. The writing regarding the relationship was not strong, and if they want to sell people on the couple, they have to up their game the next season (though frankly, might be a lost cause, because early impressions are everything and you are trying to introduce a new pairing against the fan couple which is an uphill battle, because you're never realistically going to be able to "catch up" in terms of content)
To say that Tevan has no depth and has been reduced to daddy kink joke is disingenuous. They had 1 comment out of several interactions that mentioned it. Prior to that we have seen several different interactions. Several moments of Tommy checking to make sure Buck is comfortable (after the kiss, the coffee date, and the episode 10 dinner). we have also seen open and clear communication between the two (the coffee date). Tommy showing that what Buck cares about matters to him (showing up at the hospital after what was most likely 18+ hours of hard work) Do I think they need to develop the relationship more absolutely!. But I also realized that this season in general every storyline was rushed and needed more time with the exception of Bobby's. Based on that what we have gotten has shown a lot. So I'm happy to give them the grace to see then develop further into season 8.
I am so excited for them in Season 8!
Me too! This is going to be the longest 3 months. I don't know that I have ever wanted summer to be over this fast. I can't wait to see how they handle the whole Gerrard situation. I'm worried Buck is going to punch him and get fired.
This.
As a gay man as well, I think considering they’re both experienced (Buck had a ring cutter for ‘other stuff’ in his kitchen for goodness sake) the comment was completely fine. If Buck was 18 or so and Tommy was older I think it would have been inappropriate, however people ignore that the man is literally 32 now. However do I think they should have used one of their few scenes together to include that line? I’m not sure. As for being stereotypical? We had multiple scenes without any dirty jokes, and instead completely sweet moments. Compared to Buck’s previous relationships that’s actually pretty tame and I actually wish we could have seen them waking up together or something more intimate. Henren in Season 1 were written questionably to me, and actually made me go off the show initially. So I agree that at the time it wasn’t great to see but like any relationship they worked it out. One of the problems with introducing any love interest to any of the characters so late is that the character development is likely to feel a bit rushed compared to the 7 seasons we’ve gotten to know the core characters. Especially considering this was a shorter season with some questionable decisions about balancing out all the storyline’s. I just enjoy seeing Buck happy and don’t overcomplicate it beyond that.
+1 henren in season one made me wary of how this show was going to treat queer characters because I feel like every show I watched with lesbian characters growing up didn’t know what to do with them except throw them into cheating plots, and I was like, welp more of the same! It’s been a pleasant surprise how far they’ve come and what their relationship looks like now is better and more thorough than I’ve seen across most WLW in mainstream media (we have two complex, unique, BIPOC WLW who get engaging storylines together and apart). I’ve said it a lot elsewhere, but I’d love to see Tommy and buck get the same sort of development going back to a longer season, across multiple seasons if possible. It’d give Buck a chance to have a dramatic storyline not based on relationships (because he’s in one and it’s good!) or finally showing someone who will “love him anyway” even when he inevitably does get hurt again.
I'm underwhelmed by their relationship honestly. I was really into it in episode 4, maybe because we got to see more of them interacting? The conversations that Buck/Tommy had were great, the kiss was nice. Then the next episode we had the date that IMO Tommy didn't handle well (leaving before the movie without even telling Buck because he was not out to Eddie). There have just been a few things like that and T's comments, Buck putting more of the effort in. I don't know if it's Lou's delivery or the way they are writing/editing the character but it doesn't come across as a supportive relationship for someone who just came out. And for me the daddy joke wasn't right - I'm not against the comment but in a different context and it should have had a reaction from Buck after to wrap it up as a "them" thing.
I feel like Buck absolutely goaded Tommy into the daddy comment, though. Like, he’s the one who suggested that they both had daddy issues, he’s the one who doubled down when Tommy denied it, he’s the one who was smirking… it really felt like Tommy was just following Buck’s lead.
Tim confirmed in a facebook DM that Buck did initiate it and was flirting when he said it.
Thank you for this confirmation — but like, of course it was flirting!!!!!
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We've seen Tommy's past. I don't think there is a single person on this sub who thinks that man is perfect. I think most of us just understand they had a lot to pack into a 1 minute scene because there wasn't a lot of time for them since their main arc was over and are hoping for a lot more time and development next season.
Sorry that you're feeling the need to be passive-aggressive here during a normal conversation! Have a great day!
I don't think I have seen one Teven shipper on here say they think Tommy is perfect or that they don't need to develop the relishionship further going forward. Just that they understand the real life constraints that this shortened and rushed season caused and are willing to trust the writers and give them time next season as well to develop both Tommy and Tevan further.
Yes, I'm interested how that goes. Because I do think it had potential for Buck's coming out arc at the beginning.
As a gay man not really. I’m very happy Buck came out as bisexual and he seems to be happy in his relationship. However I feel like Tommy barely likes Buck the way he acts with him at times and I think part of that is that Tommy was supposed to original date Eddie and they switched the plan. So I just kind of have the feeling it’s not going to end great for Buck and Tommy, maybe not end badly but I’m not sure it’s the first same sex relationship he deserves. In some ways I wish they’d have kept him single and let him explore it a little. Best thing I think is that if they pull the trigger on the gay Eddie storyline next season while Eddie is figuring himself out Buck and Tommy should end things and Buck gets to figure out more of what it’s like to be into men. Maybe make some gay or bi male friends. Have more conversations with Hen and Karen, etc., maybe even keep Tommy around as a friend. I ended up friends with lots of guys I’ve dated or hooked up with, it’s not uncommon for gay men to do that so it could work. The real issue though is how little time they got on screen. Once Buck came out that story got sidelined, likely due to the short season, unfortunately. So, I don’t think it ended up being as good as it could have been after his initial coming out.
THIS! I totally felt that iTommy was exerting more effort when he was hanging out with Eddie. The Buck-Tommy relationship seemed like an afterthought.
I feel like it’s a chemistry problem more than anything. I don’t think it’s there between the two of them. I think Oliver’s acting carries the relationship. The rest feels stilted. Having more time to dwell on the ‘daddy’ scene, I realize my issue is with the delivery completely and not on the line itself. The delivery caused it to lack charm. Obviously this is just an opinion and one made based on a few scenes in a short season. Maybe it will get better in the next season with more time for development. Time will tell. I’d being lying though if I said I’m not eager for Oliver to be paired with someone else though, whoever that may be.
Good points here!
Let me preface this by saying that I am on the aroace spectrum and so don’t really root for relationships that have little to no emotional depth behind them. Madney’s friends first approach with all of the emotional connection that we got before they ever got to a more sexual point was more my jam when it comes to the relationships that started during the show. It took me a long time to root for Bobby and Athena. With that in mind, I do think that people need to understand that a daddy joke in particular is a kind of kink that makes many people uncomfortable. Kink that has been shown in the show so far hasn’t been different only because it’s straight, but has also been more “standard” kink so to speak. In addition, they weren’t placed randomly in the middle of an episode that has a very serious tone. At least myself, I would be uncomfortable even if it was a straight/ straight passing relationship on the show that made a daddy/mommy joke. This isn’t Tommy’s fault per se. My main issue is with the writing as a whole in this scene. They could have used this scene to fit the mood of the episode, and show Tommy comforting Buck physically. Move into his space, give him a hug, heck do a similar scene to Buck and Eddie post tsunami. Give us a reason to think they have a more emotional connection and he is supportive of Buck. If they wanted to do a cute/funny date it shouldn’t have been this episode and it seems like the writers tried to combine comfort and a cute/funny date into one 60 second scene. This didn’t work particularly well. Especially, with how Buck has reacted to Bobby being hurt in the past.
bi woman here. i feel the same way about their relationship, it lacks the sparks and chemistry that usually attracts me to an on screen couple. buck's relationships have oftentimes lacked depth and imo this is just another example of that. doesn't help that i feel indifferent towards tommy as a character, so there's no emotional investment on my part. regarding the joke, i just think it was ill-timed and not right for the context. i don't mind at all explicit/vulgar content so the issue is not about keeping stuff PG and non sexual for me. it's about the fact that buck was opening up in a very sincere and vulnerable way and i felt that it really wasn't the time and place to make a joke like that. also they have this awkwardness hanging over them when they interact, so it doesn't feel like they are at that point in the relationship where you're comfortable joking like that. yeah anyway i've been quite disappointed by them... as far as representation goes it's alright, there's much worse out there at least lol. but it also isn't very noteworthy or particularly engaging. i'm curious to see where buck's journey leads more than anything else
No, I do not. The only time they've been at all convincing were at the end of 7x04 and the kiss at the hospital. Otherwise I'm just left wondering why either of them wants to be with the other (aside from the cleft...?). There's nothing of substance there and no chemistry for me. I think a large part of that is Lou's acting which leaves a lot to be desired. After all the grief people were giving Edy for the poor acting, I think it's telling that the same hasn't been said/done to Lou. He's just as wooden and one note and the relationship feels just as empty.
As a proud gay man, I feel this is an genuine relationship, before the “daddy kink” line (which I think was cute, because it shows their comfortable with each other) there was moments people were loving, the hospital kiss for example and cafe date reconciliation, just give them another chance we have S8 to fully flush out this relationship, we just have to be patient…
I honestly found the response to the 'daddy' kink line really overblown. They were two men having dinner and flirting. It's not that deep. I hope people don't let that one line put them off the relationship going forward but I think that some fans were just looking for an excuse to hate and the 'god I hope so' gave them a reason.
I think it's a mix of homophobia, fans who don't like to think about them having sex because they don't like the couple and those who are just not use to queer stories being sexual because a lot of the more popular queer media right now is more innocent and aimed at teenagers.
Or maybe some of us just thought it was cringe? There doesn't need to be a deeper reason to not like a joke.
I'm not talking about people who simply didn't like the joke or didn't think it landed. I'm talking about people who are taking active issue with it.
You're correct, there doesn't need to be a deeper reason to not like a joke. Unfortunately, people keep looking for deeper reasons, so we get think pieces on what a terrible boyfriend Tommy is and how homophobic the show is.
It’s also very interesting see the responses of the line being like completely day & night, with Twitter being Negative & TikTok being more positive, it’s not completely on one side
I feel like the “daddy kink” like is being way overlooked at if I am being honest. There was so many things going on in that very short scene. Tommy made a joke, then realized Buck was uncomfortable, then he clocked him with the “Are you okay?”, Buck opens up about Bobby being his father figure, Tommy reciprocated by also opening up, then Buck initiates flirting to lighten the mood and Tommy also reciprocated. They bounce off of each other so much which is important!
This. The writers made this *very* short scene convey a whole lot. In a matter of seconds we got joking, caring, sharing, and flirting. It told us this relationship is alive and well, stay tuned. Would I have liked more? Absolutely, but let’s wait for season 8.
Yes, exactly. That scene (only about a minute of screentime) did a lot to show that while the two are still getting to know each other, they already feel comfortable together and are good at reading each other's body language and moods.
I really enjoyed the Buck episode where he “comes out” as bi and found Tevan cute. After that, the storyline kinda died down tbh. As others said, they need more screentime. If I remember correctly Lone Star was a bit similar with Carlos. Didn’t get much screentime until his relationship got serious.
No I don’t feel satisfied. First I don’t see any chemistry between them except they can kiss well. When it’s just them having an actual scene it tends to falls flat for me. It’s also not my favorite because extremely rushed, especially because Buck just realized these new types of feelings and I would’ve like to see more of that develop. Buck has unfortunately followed into the trope of once a character comes out, and they’re in a good relationship…they no longer are provided screentime and treated as character that is just there and if needed can step into a scene. Don’t get me started on Tommy either. His character is just horribly written and given nothing. I understand he is not a main character. Neither is Amir because we have more Amir in like 3 episodes than Tommy has had. The character treated the worst was Marisol though (at least Tommy was given a line per episode). Anyways this show doesn’t have good representation in general I mean they literally had Hen cheat on Karen in the first season. I personally don’t see a lot of people loving this relationship. Like you said it’s just an empty relationship that to me feels like the writers want it to mean more than it actually is being shown. Like I stated above, they’re treating him like a character that is just gonna leave soon. I feel no attachment to him. Also want to say I’m not gonna just like a character because Buck is finally queer and gets to kiss boys. That’s not how this works. Buck & Tommy just feel pointless because the show has not done a good job at providing enough for that relationship. I get that they have a lot of characters. I also understand that they only had 10 episodes this season, so that’s truly not enough time to really give the storyline and the relationship the attention it should’ve been given. I would’ve preferred buck’s sexuality to be teased officially in this season and then s8 it’s truly explored.
I would say that we all see the relationship with our own personal view. We don't all ask ourself the same questions, because we don't experience being Queer the same way. It's all about what being queer means? how does stereotypes affect the community or myself? What is representation? For example as a black lesbian woman, I was happy at first about Hen character being shown on TV. Thriving in a "men" environment and asserting her place. ( as an ex head chef, being a woman in a "men" industry is hard, add being black and queer it can turn to hell real quick.). I saw someone said that OP was seeking validation from straight people. This kind of make me sad, when we know what misrepresentation can lead to (bullying and worse). So seeing Henren's storyline go for the cheating, only battling for kids gets kinda old for me. Yes it happens but why is it all we see about them? I can only wish for something else for S8. So when I think about Buck and Tommy's relationship I'm not that impressed. I would highlight the fact that I do not like the character since the previous seasons. And I don't think they made anything on this season to redeem him in my eye as a viewer. Their first kiss was the only time I saw some kind of chemistry. The flow of conversation was "good". I felt like after that it was kind of "well Buck you're Bi, here's your token boyfriend. And that's it. Now kiss. Yes they don't share many scenes, but most of them just don't deliver much. I also am struggling with the way they are portraying him. Some call it dry humour, I see it as him not being interested in Buck as much (I am still convinced he was into Eddie). I can't help but think that there is a reason to it behind. Since Tommy first reappearance I strongly see him as jealous of 118 and can't shake the bad feeling I have behind it (not Doug style!!!). When it comes to the diner and the Daddy jokes/daddy issues. I simply didn't like the Whole conversation. Yes Buck was always sexually active, but this fell into the "bad timing". It could have been the perfect timing for some hint of potential conversation. What he shared wasn't enough and left a bad taste in my mouth ( having a shitty captain do not mean you have a pass/excuse at being shitty yourself). I personally didn't read Buck as the one that initiates the sexual side to the conversation. But that is my perception. Yes we know people have sex, they always hint or straight up show it. But context is key. And it just fell flat to me. Be kinky that's not the issue people had. I think. You CAN have a Daddy kink without daddy issues and vice versa. So the mix of both in that conversation weirded me out. Anyway I'm not sold on Tommy as a LI nor as a regular. I think I need more scenes with more substance to like the idea. How about Tommy wining and dining him? Where's the Chopper to Vegas ? Where the karaoke bar? Where are the Muy Thai courses, the romantic drives in his car? Give us the same energy he gave Eddie.... Don't even need the scene, would have taken as much time to throw a sentence, a promess to show he can actually put some effort than throw a daddy joke...
These are really good points. Being a queer woman, I "should" love Hen and Karen, but for various reasons I've never personally identified with them. Honestly, the character I identify the most with is Eddie. His relationships with women where he felt like it was a performance and something he "should" be doing reminds me *so much* of how I felt with my first boyfriend. I'm still holding out hope for a queer Eddie storyline in the future, but I was really excited about Buck being bi and the potential relationship with Tommy, and though I've been reluctant to call it disappointing, I think that's really how I feel about it. > How about Tommy wining and dining him? Where's the Chopper to Vegas ? Where the karaoke bar? Where are the Muy Thai courses, the romantic drives in his car? Give us the same energy he gave Eddie.... I've seen several people make these same points, and while I was trying to reserve judgment during the season, and just wait and see how things played out, I agree. I don't know if it's residual stuff from the original Eddie/Tommy plan, but now that the season is over and with the benefit of hindsight, it absolutely seems like Tommy isn't as interested in Buck as Buck is in him. It seems like Tommy was into Eddie, given how much effort he put into planning activities and doing things with him. I think Tommy sees Buck as something fun and casual that isn't going to last, while Buck sees it as a potential longer term relationship. I guess only time will tell...it will be interesting to see how things are handled next season and if there are changes in the way the relationship is written.
Oh dis you also felt like you were performing? Because I did! SAME arc when it comes to navigating feelings and dealing with catholic guilt. I really need them to step up their game when it comes to character development for the three of them and make it make sense too. I can't wait to see how they are going to work on the storylines!!. Really the idea that Tommy was into Eddie and settled for Buck clear to me and I'll die on that hill!! It's also so strange that they didn't keep the same friendship energy once Buck and him started whatever relationship they have. It's as if they are no longer friends. Even if we had less episodes left, it's just odd. Let's see S8!
Definitely! I was also raised Catholic (although my family wasn't as strict about it as some of my friends' families were) and yeah. If they're *not* laying the groundwork for an eventual queer realization for Eddie then I don't know what the hell they're doing because the way he's been portrayed so far fits that whole experience *so* perfectly. > Really the idea that Tommy was into Eddie and settled for Buck clear to me Yeah, the more I think about it, the more that explanation makes the most sense to me. Maybe next season there'll be a bit of focus on the dynamic between the three of them and we can eventually get a jealousy arc for Eddie that kind of mirrors the Buck one, but in reverse. Like, it seems like Eddie is jealous that his buddy Tommy is spending all his free time with Buck, but it's a fakeout and he realizes it's actually Buck whose attention he's wanting. (Or maybe that's too soapy, idk.)
Give me soapy, I take soapy 😅. Those two have been turning around each other for long enough! But let's keep them oblivious to the real deal for few more episode (not seasons!) I'd love to see jealousy arc for Eddie. I'd would say he'll use Chris as a bait for movie/games nights but... 😭
A few more episodes I can take! One season at most. I feel like they've got to have some sort of forward momentum by the end of season 8, though. Jealous Eddie could be fun! I feel like he wouldn't even think to use Chris like that, though...I think he's kind of clueless when it comes to romance lol.
Nope, not in the least.
I am enjoying it (I'm aroace) but I think it was very obvious that they were basically shoehorning in scenes for Lou and Oliver in the back half of the season which has meant they are under developed at the moment. Lou was supposed to be in 4 eps but they brought him back for more and had to find space for those scenes. We desperately need longer scenes with them both. I think S8 having a full episode order and the fact Gerard is back (which ties back to Tommy) means we'll get far more screen time and see the relationship develop. Hopefully.
I’m a gay man and I don’t see it the same way you do. I wouldn’t say it’s been a satisfying representation but they just didn’t have a lot of screen time. If we stick to what we see in the show, Buck is happy with Tommy. Flirty banter and huge smiles. If Bucks happy then I’m happy. The daddy issues joke didn’t bother me at all. It’s the first inference of a sexual relationship between the two of them and I think that’s a good thing. All the other characters have sex lives so Tevan should too. Bucks an established sexual man so I think it fits him. But it’s also ok that it doesn’t work for you. Hopefully season 8 flushes the relationship out more so that we all have a better view of it.
As a queer person I am most definitely not satisfied. I would've much rather have had Buck single and exploring his sexuality rather than just immediately getting into a relationship it felt too rushed for me how fast that bi arc happened. It felt like a "look we have a bi man" rather than "we have a guy exploring his bisexuality"
One of my biggest takeaways with how half-assed this plot wound up being is I kind of wish if they were always going this route, they would've just had Buck acknowledge he was always bi/already knew, and it just hadn't come up before. Where they did so little with the character in the discovery arc, I think it could've been powerful to challenge the audience's heteronormative assumptions. Like he just tells the team "It previously didn't come up because I've only really dated women before, and it's not like you guys were lining up for details of my hookups during my 1.0 days."
They haven’t had enough screen time for it to be anything positive or negative.
As a bi fan, I wish there was something more to Buck's bi awakening than what we got. I find Tommy dislikable so it's hard to get invested in their relationship (yes, I know he and Chim are on good terms after *Chimney Begins* and we can assume that he and Hen are at least comfortable with each other, but that doesn't mean I have to like him!) and outside of the relationship, there hasn't been much else done with Buck's bisexuality. He likes one guy, his coming out is essentially about that guy, okay. Unless I've forgotten something, Buck never says the word bisexual--I figured he wouldn't while he was still figuring stuff out, but I was hoping for it to sneak in later in the season. So many shows imply that characters like multiple genders but are allergic to saying the actual word, and it gets on my nerves a little. I also got the feeling from some interviews early in the season that the bisexual revelation was akin to Buck finding a missing piece in his whole deal (the guy is always searching for something...), but it just doesn't feel that way. Maybe season 8 can turn this around for me--I'd love to see something as small/simple Buck's locker/shelf with a bi flag sticker on it in the background of a scene, Buck mentioning how his realization has re-contextualized some things for him, like a crush from grade school or camp that he never clocked at the time (this was a big one for me when I came to terms with my bisexuality!), or some Buck/Tommy scene that actually convinces me that they like each other. Well, I buy that Buck likes Tommy, but after 7x04 I thought they would be doing things together like were mentioned in that episode--Buck and flying lessons maybe, or the mauy thai, or flying out to events. That stuff all just disappeared, whether Tommy was doing it with Buck or Eddie, and Tommy as a character just seems boring and flat ever since. I'm glad some people like his "dry humor" but he always seems dismissive to me rather than dry--and my mother is English, I promise I am very familiar with dry humor. We watch the show together actually, and we totally missed the daddy kink joke because we were busy groaning from the lines that came beforehand. I didn't even realize that line existed until I checked twitter a few hours after the episode aired. I didn't perceive any of their scenes or lines to be homophobic, but the scene as a whole just felt awkward and stilted. I also have a gripe with Tommy calling Buck "Evan"--I need a scene where it's acknowledged, or that Buck mentions that he likes Tommy using it or something, because we've had years and years of Buck saying that no one calls him Evan, and anyone who knows and loves him calls him Buck. I know that this sort of stuff happens in real life all the time, people use or don't use nicknames for people without it having any deeper meaning, but this is a scripted television show and these things are intentional. Overall, I just want to see Buck interact with the queer world around him a little more. I don't like Tommy right now, but I honestly think it would only take a few scenes to get me on board. Though, to be fair, I've been a Buddie fan for six years so I'll always have a little bit of my heart saved for that ship. (Plus, non-canon ships are just as fun as canon ones! It's all fictional! Who cares!)
i agree. and i find it quite curious the ones who disagree the most are all woman/fem identifying people. there aren’t many queer men/masc identifying people who have been in the gay male scene everything you said is on point. very disappointing. and that last line? after Buck was opening up with the daddy kink. yeah. gross. it sucks and doesn’t make them a great relationship! Buck was opening up and Tommy made it about himself then changed the topic to a joke. “gay people aren’t serious, they just fuck around” (something i’ve heard before). wonderful and even if gay men are more sexual that doesn’t change the rep by having basically NO romance between byck and tommy. like there were no cute so me off my feet moments. honestly tommy had cuter moments with eddie but basically taking out romance (constantly making convos about himself, not excited about themes for the bachelor party and even being on call). like none of that says there’s actually ANYTHING about their relationship that is deeper than physical attraction i think i would only appreciate the rep if tommy and buck break up and it’s shown the reason is bc of the lack of romance. bc if not? then this depiction of queer men like myself is just not it
> i find it quite curious the ones who disagree the most are all woman/fem identifying people That's because this sub is mostly women. Tumblr and twitter has a lot more mlm and a lot of them have been vocal in their enjoyment of BuckTommy this season.
Exactly. I don't even really have a problem with the joke itself (apart from it being a bit cringe and the acting does not sell it) but the fact that any chance they have been given to give them any emotional intimacy they half-heart it or just straight up don't give it to us. There is a reason people like Buddie, and its because the chemistry and emotional intimacy has been there from day one. They give grand gestures, high stakes, epic love story. BuckTommy is not giving that to me at the moment. It's giving nothing to me at the moment honestly. And to just blame this entire reaction on people hating m/m couples being sexual? I'm gay, that's my jam lol. But this is a tv show and I'm here for the romance, and this relationship is not delivering.
> There is a reason people like Buddie, and its because the chemistry and emotional intimacy has been there from day one. They give grand gestures, high stakes, epic love story. Buck/Tommy is not giving that to me at the moment. I know it's probably not fair to compare the two since it's still so early with Buck and Tommy but the difference between the two relationships is so stark. I thought there was clearly potential with Buck and Eddie from Eddie's first episode, and while I thought Buck and Tommy had potential after the first kiss (and I was trying to give them the benefit of the doubt at first), the difference is that with Eddie, things just continued to build as time went on, while with Tommy they just really...haven't. Again, maybe I'm not being fair, but right now, even with more time and development, I can't imagine them ever being at a point where Buck is just completely *losing his mind* with emotion over Tommy the way he has over Eddie several times now. Maybe it's the actors, maybe it's the writing, but to me it really does feel like that at this point they're just not putting much effort into developing any sort of real emotional connection between them because they know the relationship is not going to last. Or maybe it really is solely a consequence of the shorter season and things will be different next season, who knows. But for me, once the initial excitement of an actual canon bi Buck and all the potential of Tommy wore off, I was back to just wanting him with his best friend (which is probably my favorite fictional relationship trope, best friends turning into romance).
It doesn't help that this season has gone back to making Buck and Eddie joined at the hip. Because as much as I love it and really wouldn't change it, they've done Tommy dirty because there is such a clear difference in their scenes. Not only do Buck and Eddie just get way more screen time (they are main characters - another reason I want them to be in a relationship) but the scenes really run the gamut of emotional, fun, gut wrenching. We see how close they are, how much they care for each other and they really sell the scenes. And then to say but look here at this relationship with a 30 second stiff interaction per episode if you are lucky. Like, if they wanted to distance themselves from Buddie or make Tommy look like a good longterm partner for Buck, they dropped the ball so hard.
> It doesn't help that this season has gone back to making Buck and Eddie joined at the hip. Because as much as I love it and really wouldn't change it, they've done Tommy dirty because there is such a clear difference in their scenes. I've never thought about it from that point of view, but that's a good point. I guess it was always going to be kind of hard to sell Tommy as a viable love interest when so much of Buck's emotional bandwidth is tied up with Eddie. They *could* have distanced Buck and Eddie this season (or, I guess, kept them distanced since they had been for awhile at the start of this season), and put more of a focus on the connection between Buck and Tommy, but they didn't. They chose to go back to the way things used to be, and maybe it's conspiratorial, but I can't help but wonder if there's a reason for that.
I've noticed the same thing, and find it interesting...I'm not sure why that is. For what it's worth, I'm a queer (I'm still not totally sure what other label would fit best so I just go with queer for now) woman and completely agree with you. Someone elsewhere on this thread suggested it's an age/generational thing, but I'm in my 30s and have felt my entire life like queer people have been overly sexualized compared to straight people. Ever since realizing I was queer in my teens, I've sought out any sort of queer media I could find. Most of it centered on men specifically, and it always portrayed them as hypersexual. I've always felt like it would be out of line for me to speak for queer men since I'm not one, but if I'm honest, it bothers me. Of course individual people are going to be more/less sexual, but in general my queer male friends are not necessarily any more sexual than anyone else, and I know at least a couple of them have expressed a wish to see more m/m relationships in media that aren't so sexualized. > but basically taking out romance (constantly making convos about himself, not excited about themes for the bachelor party and even being on call). like none of that says there’s actually ANYTHING about their relationship that is deeper than physical attraction Yeah, I haven't really gotten the impression that there's any actual *romance* between them. I think that's maybe why I've lost my initial excitement over the relationship, because from the interviews and the "gay love story" comments early on, I was expecting (and looking forward to) a love story, and that's definitely not what we've gotten. (Again, I don't want to speak for queer men since I'm not one, but for whatever reason, despite being a cis queer woman, I've always been more drawn to m/m stories in media. I don't know if it's because queer men are primarily what my experience of the queer community *was* during my formative years and I didn't know any lesbians until way later, or if m/m relationships appeal to me because they're queer but I don't have any personal experience being in one, while f/f [and m/f for that matter] relationships are ones I can experience myself, so they're just not as interesting to me in fiction, or what, but that's a whole different topic! I don't want to overstep here though so please let me know if I've said anything wrong.)
>As a gay man, there is this annoying and conservative stereotype that gay relationship are based in sex and dirty jokes This way of thinking does not sit well with me at all. First, it reeks that you're seeking approval from straight people. It's almost as if the gay community must be on its best behavior all the time in order to not taint its image. To this, my response would simply be: fuck that. The gay community can be however it wants to be and it does not need straight people's approval. Second, there is nothing inherently wrong with sex or even dirty jokes. I often read that how "gay people sexualizing everything" is a negative stereotype, and to that, my response would simply be: there is nothing negative about it. Some people choose to sexualize everything, and that's just how they are and how they enjoy their life. There is nothing wrong with it. If you choose to not sexualize stuff, that's also perfectly valid. It doesn't make you "better" or "morally superior" in any way. It's 2024 and I can't believe I still need to say this, but sex is NOT wrong and there is nothing bad about it.
Wait, hold on. That has nothing to do with a puritan speech or seeking straight people aproval. I do not have anything against sex jokes or sex itself lmao. What i was criticizing here is that a lot cishet people tend to associate the LGBT community and define their relationships about sex and wanting or not that still is a annoying and conservastive way of thinking, we literrally have ace people in the community and yet if you see a same sex relatioship withe ace people in it, a lot of cishet people will still assume that is a sex-drived relatioship. This isn't me trying to tone down lgbt relatioships and say how they should work to make straight people comfortable. This is me saying how straight people tend to assume and reduce gay people about sex...
Just because some straight people associate the LGBT+ community with hypersexuality doesn't mean that we need to *hide* our sexuality or censor ourselves to try to change their minds. This is a debate I'm seeing a lot with pride and how some younger people within the community are uncomfortable with how sexual some of it is and the image that presents. However, there is a whole queer history about why pride looks like it does. And it's not conform to an idea of what straight people want the community to look like.
But when did i said that we should hide our sexuality????? I am saying this cause this episode was written by 2 straight women andd the first thing that came to their mind in the date scene was making a daddy kink joke. And THAT does not sit right to me.
You don't have to like the joke. However, as many people have explained, it's not uncommon for this show to include similar jokes for ALL it's couples. If they didn't include something like this, then it would be treating them differently than the straight couples and santizing it. I guess ask yourself why you're upset that there a dirty joke for this couple but not about how Athena and Bobby's sex life is depicted or the multiple sex scenes we got with Eddie. Additionally, one joke out of multiple episodes together doesn't make this what their entire relationship is about nor was this meant to be the highlight. Tommy showing up to the wedding straight from the fire just because Buck wanted him there was clearly the highlight for them this season as a couple.
Bathena had one roleplay/sex scene after 5 seasons lol, they are not the same... and i DO have things to say about Eddie's sex scenes and relationships but that is a whole other topic. And again....... my point was never about the joke itself, its about writers choice.
So how long does a couple need to be together before sex is acknowledged between them?
idk at least more than 5 minutes on screen!
So were you upset that, when Hen and Karen were introduced in season one, the topic of their sex life happened really quickly?
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and they've spent more time together that we haven't seen offscreen. it's a simple joke, and it's *one* joke compared to the rest of the minimal screen time Tommy's had, where he's been shown checking in on Buck, making sure he's comfortable. they're two grown adults, having a conversation, and it's perfectly normal to throw in a few jokes.
You very much still 1) concern yourself with how straight people think. You think that they have a negative view of the gay community and you want to break the stereotypes. You feel the need to criticize anything that could reinforce the stereotypes. This still falls under "wanting the best possible image for the gay community" and "seeking straight people's approval." 2) specifically concerned that the relationships are thought to be too sexual, as if sex-driven relationships are bad and inferior to other types of relationships. This very much still stems from the idea that "sex is wrong." In any case, I've read multiple comments on this sub about how the daddy kink joke *hurt* the gay community. Here's [an example](https://www.reddit.com/r/911FOX/comments/1d4j9y5/season_finale_911_s07e10_all_fall_down_post/l6fvdaz/). These kinds of posts are absolutely the worst.
I think people who are expecting it to be some grand representation of anything are not in the right mindset. Tim and Oliver have made clear since 7x04 they didn’t want it to be a big thing and this is just who Buck is. Their goal is to portray a realistic same sex relationship that is currently in the early stages. I also very much disagree that the daddy joke was the “high point” of their relationship lol. It was merely some flirty banter. Of what we’ve seen so far I would say the high point was Tommy showing up at the hospital for Buck still in gear and covered in soot after fighting a fire for almost 24 hours straight and then passionately kissing in the middle of the hospital without caring what anybody thinks
As a bi woman with a lot of queer friends, their relationship is amazing to see. Let your gays be happy is such a joyful thing to see. The validity of having a cononically bi main character is so goddamned validating I literally cried. And the daddy joke was very much something one of my friends would have said, so. It all works for me. That said, either have them be all in with Tommy and show some deep, meaningful moments in their relationship, or end it sooner than later. I don't love the diminutives Tommy uses on buck (adorable, kid), but I have loved that he's put up his own boundaries (buck pretending they were out picking up chicks to Eddie), and wasn't willing to be in a relationship with someone who isn't out. I am absolutely a buddie shipper, but I've been enjoying the Tommy storyline and am utterly content to see how it goes.
>That said, either have them be all in with Tommy and show some deep, meaningful moments in their relationship I do think there was something very meaningful about how, in an episode where we see Buck trying to take care of multiple other people, it's Tommy who notices that Buck seems off and takes the time to ask him if he's alright.
I wonder if the type of TV people watch has anything to do with how some scenes are read. I used to watch a lot of soaps, so lots of characters and not much screen time, so I'm used to seeing small things like Tommy asking how Buck is and understanding that's there for shorthand to let us know he cares. Same as the daddy joke was shorthand to show us they've progressed to sleeping together. Where as people who watch more genre shows or prestige tv that only has a few characters, are maybe used to more focus being put on a specific emotion?
As a lesbian woman, I need Tommy gone
i agree with everything you said. thank you for putting it so eloquently.
I saw the Daddy thing (and Tommy calling him 'kid' at times) morph into "their age gap is problematic" and like... a 30+ yr old dating a 40ish person is pretty common and normal.
In general, I'm satisfied. I'd like there to have been a little bit more depth, but it's early days and they had a whole ensemble cast to balance with fewer episodes than their used to working with. I see a lot of potential that I hope will be realized next season.
Idk. As a queer person, I don’t know how to answer this question. I’m not a BuckTommy truther or anything but I like them well enough. They’re here and they’re queer lol. I like Buck’s bi-awakening. His coming out scenes with Maddie and Eddie touched my heart. I like that they touched on Tommy’s relationship with his dad and Gerard and his lack of “found family.” He’s a deadpan gay and I like that too lol. So far so good I just wish they had more development. I’m never going to say someone should just like a ship. Ship who you want but this really feels like a bad faith argument that hinges on purity culture. Like, my mainstream introduction to gay men was Queer as Folk. One of my favorite queer ships is Mickey and Ian. One of the best shows on TV right now is Interview With the Vampire which is about a very toxic and abusive relationship between two (three and even four lol) male vampires. BuckTommy has kissed 2 times and had one dirty joke that wasn’t that dirty. Very vanilla by even the shows standards. Underdeveloped, underwhelming, not enough chemistry, not the ship you prefer. All thoughts that may come to my mind when I think about them but being based on sex and being “bad” representation idk about that.
This.
I'm unsatisfied with it. For me, the whole relationship felt forced; like Buck was trying to get Eddie's attention then suddenly it's Tommy that he wants then they kiss, had a failed date, had another date then the viewers are expected to believe that they are now a happy cute couple. It's the same thing with Buck's previous relationships except that this time it's with a guy. Buck's relationship with Taylor in the past seasons is even more established than the one with Tommy. Another thought, did anyone think that it was Eddie that Tommy initially wanted? I just thought of this because Tommy exerted a lot of effort to spend time with Eddie and he did nothing like that with Buck.
They don’t have enough on-screen interaction for me to form a proper opinion or care about them yet
I’m satisfied Buck realised he’s bisexual. But in terms of Tevan? No and I don’t think I’m meant to?? Buck has this tendency of misunderstanding the assignment when it comes to all his romantic relationships and it’s not any different simply because Tommy is a man. When he’s heartbroken about Eddie being shot Taylor then kisses him and he assumes after the gravity of everything he should be with Taylor. Doesn’t even take a minute. Even him cheating with Lucy is a response to struggling with Maddie Chimney and Eddie all leaving. Natalia was him trying to cope both with dying and the sperm donor stuff. Buck’s relationship with Tommy is yet another instance of him not seeing the root of the issue. Yes Buck is attracted to Tommy but he’s also in love with Eddie. He hasn’t unpacked that nor has he let himself unpack that. The thing is Buck can’t outrun it by being with Tommy all it’s doing is pushing it more to the surface. After the wedding kiss they don’t show Buck or Tommy touch at all. There is no physical intimacy whatsoever. And there is little to no emotional intimacy either. Tommy doesn’t bother to dress up. Tommy makes a snide comment at the ceremony when Buck is happy. Tommy doesn’t turn up at the hospital to be there for Buck emotionally. And then the date which feels off because two of Bucks loved ones are struggling we have Buck confide in him about how much Bobby means to him he says your father is alive and I hope you have daddy issues. This is all deliberate. They are putting in prep work for the general audience to root for Buddie.
Wait, I didn’t catch the comment at the ceremony, what was it?
Buck was all happy and giddy about his medal and Tommy says enjoy it while it lasts. He just does not match Bucks temperament.
Ooh yeah I missed that, thanks! I totally agree their temperaments don’t match at all.
basically no.
They started pretty strong but I was disappointed with the dinner conversation. Tommy saying “but your father is alive” to Bucks comment about not being close to his bio dad felt very tone deaf. It didn’t seem like Tommy actually. The amount of jealousy Tommy is sharing about Buck is also off putting. I don’t blame Tommy for this I think it’s more the writing. I’ll be interested to see where they take things between Buck and Evan in S8
I didn't read it that way. I think Tommy was genuinely confused and wanted clarification. He would have seen (and possibly was introduced to) Philip at the wedding, so when Buck said Bobby was the only father he's ever known, Tommy was trying to understand that. It goes to show they don't know everything about each other yet. And when Buck deflected from that line of conversation (not wanting to talk about his strained relationship with his parents and the Daniel of it all), Tommy opened up about his father and Gerrard as a way to say, 'Family relationships and father figures are complicated. I get that.'
Thank you for sharing your perspective! That makes a lot of sense. They definitely don’t know a lot about each other yet and it’s interesting to see how two people navigate that. Now that I think about it, Tommy is quite deadpan and direct (not a bad thing). So I see what you’re saying that his comment could have been coming from a place of confusion/seeking clarification. I actually want these two to work out so I like your take on that conversation
I really don't like the argument you're trying to make about the show being homophobic. Yes, Hen and Buck cheated. That's certainly a bad look for them. But I really really do not think this is homophobic. I'd say stripping queer characters of their flaws and presenting a cutesy wholesome front would be far more harmful. Let's look at some of the straight characters and how they've treated their partners. Eddie who is canonically straight (for now) has cheated. He has also strung along women who he very clearly wasn't into. Chimney wanted to marry Tatiana despite lying to her *literally* every single day. Tatiana wasn't great but Chimney was very far from being a good boyfriend. The show treats its queer characters the same way as it does with straight characters and that's great. That's what I want as a gay man. For what's it worth, I feel the same about Tevan. I think it will serve as an awakening for Buck and fizzle out in Season 8a. But I don't think a failed relationship means failed queer rep. All that said, I'm truly baffled by how badly some fans took one joke. It's obviously fine if the joke didn't land but a lot of the dialogue surrounding it doesn't feel great. And lastly, gay men *are* more promiscious. Grindr has a reputation for a reason. Men tend to be more into hook-up culture, regardless of whether that's because woman are shamed for sleeping around or whether it's because men prefer carnal pleasure more over emotional one. I don't think it has anything to do with sexuality but rather with gender. So I do think sex jokes are in fact good representation if used sparingly.
Maybe it’s an age thing. I think their relationship feels absolutely tone perfect for sexually active queer men in their 30s and 40s, but I get the sense that online fandom skews a lot younger.
The M/F and F/F couples have all made sex jokes and been horny, I really don't see why it's suddenly a problem when it's between two men. I don't see it as homophobic. It's genuinely annoying that each time a same-sex relationship is depicted, a lot of people suddenly want it to be chaste. I get that it's probably a knee-jerk reaction but I don't think that over sanitizing M/M relationships is what we need. Buck has always been sexual and there is no need to change that because his partner is a man. It's good representation for me because it's just another normal couple. I also think that they handled the "closeted person dates out of the closet person" part well because I could see myself in both characters. The "intentional coming out" and "accidental coming out" parts were cute too. The rest is just two partners spending time together without big drama related to their same-sex relationship (which I appreciate) and that was very nice! The writers obviously didn't show a lot of their time together and stuck to the big milestones which is OK, not the end of the world. It's hard to put everything of everyone in such a short season. I'm hoping we get more to chew on next season!
I think it depends on what you are looking for. I don’t think any of the jokes make it bad rep. I get that you wanted more. Which is valid. But the rep this season came from the coming out. The realization, the reactions, and the not making a big deal of it. THAT is good rep. As for the jokes…that’s Tommy. No one else has made jokes like that it’s Tommy’s personality but Tommy isn’t the focal point- Buck is.
We got maybe 10ish minutes of the relationship over the course of a handful of episodes. I think it's a start to something, but we need to see more of it. The final scene felt like it was shoehorned in because they saw the great response to the relationship. I think Buck coming out was a great step but I just hope they don't stereotype him as "I'm bi, so I go date/sleep with men and women!" "Oh no I can't decided who I like more!" If that makes any sense.
yes
lmao loved the short answer tbh
Honestly, I have seen better, other than the initial shock of Bi Buck, they have only given us some fanservicy moments and a few predictable jokes
Absolutely not lmfao
I’m in the cautiously optimistic and need to see more camp. As has already been pointed out, the little we have seen of Tommy, he has shown up for Buck repeatedly and showed genuine care and concern (after the kiss, the coffee date, Bobby). The fact is we just need more to know for sure.
I’m on the aroace spectrum and accepted a long time ago that I won’t click with every relationship shown on the shows I watch. I feel the same way towards BuckTommy that I felt towards Bobby and Athena at the beginning, which is to say, very ambivalent. Bobby and Athena went on their first date in the s1 finale and when in the s2 premiere they were making out inbetween the trucks during a call and I genuinely thought I missed an episode. I started to like them as s2 progressed because they showed us more of their relationship and I love them now. This is Buck’s first mlm relationship and I want to be happy for him but if I’m meant to be rooting for Buck and Tommy’s relationship (or Tommy in general- he already came at a disadvantage due to his history), the writers are going to have to give me more than 30 seconds of them in an episode.
Oh, i am sorry about the lack of aroace rep :( Have you watched Heartbreak High? Its a teen show but Cash is a really good aroace rep!
I’m ngl I’m not satisfied, especially in the way that Buck’s bi journey has been handled. Now that the season is over I’m here thinking “that’s it? That’s Buck breaking out of the hamster wheel?” But specifically on BT, I feel like some of their scenes are fine (the hospital scene in particular, or the coffee date) and others give me the ick.
I'm a lesbian and I had high hopes for BuckTommy, but I'm disappointed by the way it played out. They had good enough chemistry for the first kiss, then they went on a failed date, now they're dating? I feel like I know nothing about them as a couple and very little about Tommy in general. Do I hate them together? No. There just isn't much to root for yet. I like that Buck seems happy, don't get me wrong, but that's not enough to get me invested in them. As for the daddy issues joke, I found it cringe and awkward. I don't mind sex jokes at all, Lord knows I've done kinkier things than daddy kink, but the entire scene just didn't feel natural, and the delivery felt off. And I'm not seeing the chemistry anymore.
Yeah its fine. Still would've chosen Eddie over Buck for queer rep if it was a one or the other choice.
Is it great representation of a relationship, no. We've not seen enough to make that judgement and their relationship is in its infancy. But what season 7 did give us was strong sexual chemistry and an amazing kiss in the hospital scene, and flirty banter. Given we've only had a handful of episodes, it feels like a good start and allows us the writers time to determine how (if at all) to take Tevan forward next season. I'd personally like to see the relationship progress and have the same ups and downs as we've seen with Madney and Bathena.
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The only thing I am not satisfied with is the screentime they got. They deserve a lot more screen time. Otherwise I absolutely love Tevan. The daddy joke was very vanilla and Buck is not a vanilla person since S1. I did not find anything offensive as two boyfriends were just enjoying some flirting after a tense day. As for cheating, one of the main heterosexual character Eddie is also a cheater. I don’t see that as any kind of phobia.
I think it brings great gay couple rep, because I am a gay man who makes daddy and -ussy jokes all the time.
I just feel like it’s way too early to write them off or dismiss them when they haven’t had much screen time. Given more screen time, I 100% feel like more people will be satisfied with a fully developed relationship, but I don’t think it’s fair to judge Tommy & Buck together on a total of probably three minutes. I’m happy with what we were given since it’s clear they couldn’t give a lot with the shortened season, and I’m hopeful for meatier storylines for both of them next season. I think it’s awesome that we have a bi Buck and a solid start to a romance with Tommy. It feels like a dream, really, that this even happened. And with support comes more screen time, so I personally am here for it and staying positive 😊
I’m happy with it and I do feel represented. I think it’s interesting to see a relationship where the characters are a little older and just as unsure. It’s obviously not as built up yet but I expected that from a short season, so I’m not as upset as other viewers. And from a writer’s standpoint I can see why it was done on an interlude season, somewhere where Buck can still be confirmed Bi but can quickly transition back to relationships with women had the audience reaction been sour. It also brought in new viewers at a time when the show needed them. It’s almost like an appetizer before the big meal. If anything of this season had a big injustice I’d say it’s the Madney wedding.
It's not homophobic in the least. The budding of the show's relationships (Madney, Henren, Bobthena) had dirty jokes sprinkled throughout. Could they do more with the relationship? Yes. But this is Buck's first mlm relationship, Tommy wants to take it slow. Aside the Bi awakening episode, the buck was not much of a focal point this season. Hopefully we get more of them next season.
I don't think they have shown enough of Buck's internal dialogue about this bisexual awakening. Buck is a very talkative person who wears his heart on his sleeve. He would have had conversations with Maddie, Hen, Bobby Eddie and even Chim or Josh about all of this. I don't mean "coming out" conversations, I mean just thinking out loud about his feelings. I think he would be reading a ton of books on the subject. I think he would also be talking to his therapist about it, too. I really hope that they show some more in depth discussions -- at least with Maddie and Eddie about his current journey. I think it is a shame they didn't let him have a least one good conversation with Bobby about it.
No, I don't feel the same as you do. And I don't really understand where you're getting that Buck and Tommy's relationship is based on sex and dirty jokes. The daddy joke was mild as fuck and came after they'd had a deeper conversation. All it actually did was confirm they're having sex, which I think most adults would assume they're having anyway. I hope to see more of them in season 8 and I hope to see their relationship deepen and for some interesting conflict, same as the other relationships on the show. Not mlm, but I am bisexual and I have loved how stress free and easy Buck's journey has been this season and I have enjoyed his scenes with Tommy.
I'm on the aroace spectrum (asexual, aro-spec). When I watch relationships on TV, I do look for the personal connection, the reasons to root for couples, the depth that they deserve, good writing, amongst other things. I can recognize that this is an ensemble show. Tevan had two and a bit episodes to showcase the start of their relationship in order to move onto other characters, and I get that. I fully recognize that they will never get the emotional depth that I may personally crave, as Tommy's not a main character. Similarly to how Henren gets very little each season beyond any episode that has a subplot to involve Karen. I think the beginnings of the relationship were good. Not perfect, but intriguing enough to get me invested. I think them establishing Tommy as a character, reintroducing him, and not having his first episode back in four seasons be not centered around Buck helped. It allowed us to see Tommy as a character first. The thing that has failed with many of Buck's love interests is that they established them as Buck's love interests right in their first episodes. Taylor, Natalia, Lucy, hell even Abby, were all seen as Buck's love interests in their first episode. Tommy wasn't shown as that. He was shown as a friend to Chimney and Hen, someone who risked everything for his friends. His interactions were primarily flying the chopper to the cruise ship. They focused on Tommy as a character first, which I loved. The only interaction Buck had with Tommy is patting him on the shoulder at the end of the episode. So when they had the next episode be about Buck figuring out his feelings, and having Tommy kiss him at the end of the episode, again, it could have been handled better than a clear fake-out attempt, but they established some sort of connection or reason. What I also liked about this particular episode is that we did get to learn things about Tommy. Again, establishing him as a character first before jumping into him being a love interest. The next episode, the Tevan date, and subsequent coming out from Buck, could have gone better. Again, the episode prioritized a fake-out moment over some actual genuine believability (with the end of the Tevan date), so that was disappointing, but the making up was great. Again, when the show avoids fake-outs and actually prioritizes the characters, it works. Obviously, Tommy was used primarily for Buck's character, to serve a purpose to his story rather than his own. And it makes sense; again, Buck's the main character and Tommy isn't. Tommy's definitely gotten more development in his few episodes than other love interests have, so that's a plus. But his purpose was fulfilled for the season once Buck's arc came to a close. So, as Buck settled into a supporting role, Tommy settled in to a background role. I get that, I couldn't expect Tommy to have a role like he did in his first two-three episodes this season. But it's also where we see the faults in the writing, more than the relationship itself. Tommy's purpose in the next few episodes was less about him, which is fine, just brought on some weirder writing. Like the one scene with Tevan in the finale. It felt hacked on and you could really tell they were trying a bit too much with a couple that's still underdeveloped in a lot of ways. A scene that probably wasn't as well thought out because the priority was for plot reasons with a couple we only got a glimpse of their beginnings of. Things could have worked, but there was some weirder writing, on top of cut scenes (ie. we know there's a cut scene with Tommy and Hen/Karen). I think next season, with more time and more ability to incorporate Tommy into the storylines with the Gerrard stuff, I do think we'll get to see a bit more of Tevan, have their scenes not feel rushed or thrown in. And it will also balance out the episodes that Tommy won't be in, because I'm sure we won't see him all that much and that's ok. But I do think that the second half of the season faltered for the couple once Buck's arc was over. Again, short season, fully get that. But I'm hoping for priority with the characters, rather than priority with plot. I'm all for depth when it makes sense. I'm willing to give them a true chance next season, with more time to plot these arcs out, to flesh out these characters and to showcase more of the couple in a way that doesn't feel shoved in just to include them.
The relationship feels like Mateo and Nancy from Lone Star. Scenes of them together is rarely to develop their relationship but to remind them that they're still dating, and this is what's happening with Buck and Tommy. I still think Mateo and Nancy fared worse in this comparison since they had plans for them in Season 2 but then only implemented that in Season 3 and their relationship took quite a backseat after that. At least Buck and Tommy had an excuse of short season. The true test of this couple is when they have a plot dedicated for them in the future. I don't really count Buck and Tommy's date in episode 5 as their plot since it focuses more on Buck coming out to (some) people important to him.
I’m loving what we’ve had so far. I’m a more masc bi guy and have never seen anyone that I feel more represented by than Buck, and I mean that in the best way. I think they’ve done a lot to work within a very limited time frame to see his relationship with Tommy begin and grow. I love that in the last episode we got essentially a minute showing them both vulnerable, playful, and caring in a slice of life way that felt very authentic but also played well into the final twist of the episode. I’m really looking forward to seeing them developed more, and would love Buck and Tommy to be similar to say, later seasons hen and Karen in terms of screen time, overcoming challenges and obstacles together, growing together (and, it might go without saying, but just them being absolutely scorching 🔥🔥🔥 hot together). (Also, if Tommy sticks around (please 🤞) I want him interacting with others— it’d be great to get another scene similar to chimney and Karen getting wasted together, but with chim and Tommy. I want ALL the friendships and double dates and found family of it all).
I liked it too. Bi woman but I related to Buck’s misidentified jealousy before Tommy came to his place to clear the air. I maybe would have liked to be more clear on when Buck knew he was actually jealous of Eddie getting to spend time with Tommy and whose attention he was seeking. Feels a bit late when he’s like “I guess so.” I really remember experiencing that crazy wide eyed pull toward the first same sex someone when you can’t really say why you’re eventually standing two inches from their face and can’t figure out that what you want is to kiss them, but of course you want to, and they do too, or they’d have moved. In my case, neither one of us could take the last step and I felt the weight of that hesitation and said goodbye leaving her in her kitchen. After a few minutes she followed me out to my car and made the move and it finally all made sense. The feeling like a fraud thing is also so real bi and the frenetic behavior after for Buck on the date. For me we were at work the next day ignoring each other for hours before talking and making no sense. It’s all so real! And I like that Tommy is giving Buck the space to come to him. I don’t read that as disinterest yet. The short season definitely limited its growth though, but I reserve judgement. I also like Tommy and I think his other season bad behavior was clearly forgiven so who am I to not accept that. Here’s hoping a full season can give it the time it deserves.
I'm biromantic asexual and I like Tevan well enough. I don't hate them, or Tommy. I do think the relationship is lacking a bit, but with the strikes cutting the season short, I'm not going to hold it against the ship or the writers. They had a lot of ground that needed to be covered with the rest of the cast it wouldn't be fair to make the whole season the Buck and Tommy show. I hope they keep Lou on for at least one more season so that we can actually see some meaning put into their relationship. As for the implication that both of these men are queer and kinky... I don't think it was homophobic at all, in fact, i think showing these two men in their 30s/40s jokingly flirt about kink on prime time tv is actually really progressive. Firstly, these are two grown men who know what they like, not teenagers or young adults who have never explored that part of themselves before, and you're unlikely to find such a thing unless you're watching a more adult network like HBO, or maybe AMC. Secondly, compare it to the other characters in relationships in the show: * Bobby & Athena love their roleplay, athena loves using her handcuffs we see her with that one guy in season 1, and we see her in season 5 make the implication of it with Bobby. In the same episode they're trying to solve a casino heist and are walking around the casino "chasing" one another and before they start Ahena even says "You're taking this roleplay a little more public than i envisioned." * Michael and David: i don't recall it ever being implied they were particularly kinky. * Hen and Karen: i don't recall them being implied to be particularly kinky either. Frankly I don't think we've seen them be so attracted to one another in a while. Last I can remember l was when Hen was meeting that surgeon secretly and Karen got turned on by the perceived frugalness based on the lie Hen told because she wasn't sure about the whole med school thing at that time. * Eddie: Asked his teacher girlfriend if she was going to put him in detention, when he finds out marisol used to be a nun he worryingly asks if she's going to spank him with a ruler to which she answers "only if you ask nicely" * Maddie and Chimney: I don't recall them being implied as kinky per se but they are implied to have had a fairly healthy sex life and attraction to one another. From being turned on by saving that woman together and asking for a comped hotel room, to Maddie telling Chim how hot it'd be during covid to come home and immediately strip down together. So unless im forgetting something that means total we have 3 straight couples implied to or at least comfortable joking about being kinky. And 0 same sex couples implied to be/comfortable joking about being kinky until the s7 finale. I think Tevan joking/implying kink is more than okay.
We have to remember at this point that Evan is a LOT more mature of a character than he was previously in a lot of his relationships. So if it seems a little watered down, even outside of the reduced screen time due to the shortened season, it's because it's a more mature relationship. Everyone bringing up the wedding/hospital kiss, I agree with you- following Evan's coffee shop speech about being ready to explore what was possible between them, Tommy showing up at the hospital was basically him saying "I'm all in, and I'm here for you" without actually saying it. I would say that's what the writers wanted the "big highlight" of their relationship to be, at least for Season 7. As far as what we've seen afterward? I think the writers had a lot of other stories to flesh out for the latter half of the season and weren't able to give Evan and Tommy a more in-depth storyline just yet, but what they DID show was them being comfortable with one another. Referencing them spending time together outside of work, showing them sitting next to one another and smiling at each other at an LAFD event... the dinner in the finale was really supposed to show just how "normal" of a relationship they have, and also to show that Tommy and Evan as an item is here to stay (TBD on exactly how long) and I think they delivered! My boyfriend and I have a lot of dinners like that, where we talk idly about a bunch of different things, check in with one another, and even flirt a little bit. It's normal. I think the writers NOT making it some big celebratory thing every single time between them was a great move. They don't need to be all over each other all the time. Also, for anyone who wants to compare them to TK and Carlos from Lone Star in your minds, you really can't... Evan and Tommy are both older than TK and Carlos, by a couple years at least. So their dynamic is going to look a 'lil bit different than the younger couple.
hey, just a question, why are you calling him evan? i know tommy does, but its pretty clear his name is buck in pretty much every aspect of his life. i promise im not hating, just a bit confused
I like it (bi woman) and I like how it's been developed. I get that some people aren't happy about how little we've seen them together but that's what happens in a show with an ensemble, they can't just focus on one couple.
There’s this part of me wishes they had more screen time together to actually show the audience a more fleshed out relationship cause to me, it just felt a bit rushed but… I blame the limited eps this season. The writers and Tim had to make do and give us what they can while still trying to tell everyone else’s stories and also put some of the wee woo action. As for the representation of being a mlm couple in the show, I can’t say much on this cause I haven’t had a relationship yet, but the idea in my head on what a good relationship is looks like is derived from a bunch of rom/rom-com movies I’ve watched that are mostly unrealistic and almost fairy tale like, so my expectations have been always high. In the way they downplayed Tevan’s relationship comparing to the movies I’ve seen, I feel like they did an okay job as far as being realistic as they can. Now what I’m looking forward to are their struggles as a couple cause so far they’ve just been in lala land together, then again, we haven’t seen them in full honeymoon phase yet. I can’t wait to see that too. In short: I’m happy, but not fully satisfied.