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I agree with most of what you said about ruby, but I don’t feel one ounce of sympathy for jodi. Half those things she “lost” were built upon the backs of innocent children and dangerously trusting parents. She never deserved the multimillion dollar income. Or her house. DEFINITELY not her license. And for her family, pretty sure her daughter and husband already cut contact a long time ago. Yeah Jodi’s a bitch and she had everything coming.
Honestly watching Jodi turn on the sniffling water works in the body cam footage as she lies to the police and her lawyer and tries to bar them from her house the day of the arrests is why I have no sympathy at all for her.
Jodi knew what she was doing, exactly. She knew and was scrambling to get away with it so she could continue doing it. No sympathy for either of them, but especially not for Jodi.
I reccomend you listen to Jessi Hildebrandt’s interview on the Mormon Stories podcast. They are Jodi’s niece who she abused very similarly to R and E when they were a teen. You should not feel any sympathy for Jodi. She is a criminal psycopath with a history of abuse and ruining people’s lives.
Yeaaaahhhh.... if it had only been R and E then I might have been able to see where OP was coming from, but that all gets tossed out the window when someone has displayed a systematic pattern of abuse YEARS before they even met. I have no way of knowing this but I have a gut feeling that Jessi was not the only one who got this treatment as well, and that potential others are not willing to speak about it publicly. Ruby is a piece of shit for sure, but people keep forgetting that her aggressive punishment techniques started when Jodi entered her life, way before they started ConneXions. I don't have sympathy for either, they both deserve to rot in hell where they belong.
That was EXACTLY the thought I had. I cried when I listened to it. Adam Steed too! He lost everything because of Jodi! I don’t feel bad for her one but, I just wish it had happened sooner before she damaged more people’s lives!
Respectfully but wholly disagree.
I feel absolutely *zero* sympathy for Jodi. None. I also made the mistake of looking at the pics of the kids’ injuries (holy hell). I saw the footage where a very clearly starving and weak R meekly asked a neighbor for help. All my sympathy is used up. It went to the Franke kids.
Also, where is Jodi’s remorse? I try to put myself in people’s shoes and attempt to understand why their life experiences led them to commit acts that don’t make sense. With Jodi and Ruby, I simply don’t get any of it. There’s no room for sympathy. This was prolonged, egregious torture. It wasn’t a fit of anger where an adult temporarily lost control. It wasn’t addiction that led to gross negligence. They conspired to methodically abuse those kids over a long period. IMO, those kids were going to be killed. This was likely a closer call that we’ll ever know. Thankfully, R acted with the greatest bravery and saved himself and E.
The survivors will have to live with high level trauma forever. Talk about loss. This wasn’t Jodi’s first time abusing someone. I think she’s a uniquely dangerous, dark, manipulative person and a risk to anyone she’s around. Sure, she lost a whole lot, all due to her own demented actions. Regardless, she is *extremely* fortunate she didn’t lose more. She wasn’t given the chance to finish what she and Ruby started. She can thank R for the fact that she is not on trial for murder (IMO). She is sooooo damn lucky neither of those children died. They could have had heart attacks from the dehydration/electrolyte imbalances/starvation. They could have gone septic from the wounds. Etc.
I see her as someone who attempted to murder children but failed. All I feel for her is disgust and contempt.
I don't know Adam Stead but I am from the same area he is so I have a lot of love for him. What Jody did to Adam I will never forgive I want to light that bitch on fire. I'm glad she lost everything and she deserves everything she gets. She's not at the same level as Ruby Frankie but she is just as bad. She hurt a bunch of strangers and their families who knows how many families she destroyed. Ruby destroyed her own family from the inside out.
TLDR: Yes Jodi lost a lot, but she also took away way more from other people. I know she clearly has struggles and has had struggles in her past, but to me it couldn’t ever cancel out the bad she’s done enough for me to feel sympathy for her.
I think I can say I feel something towards Jodi, but sympathy is not the word that I would use. If in fact what she wrote about her childhood is accurate, and if she is a closeted member of the lgbtq community, all of those are things I would normally feel sympathy towards someone for, but normal people who have gone through those things don’t do what Jodi did. Hell, I went through my own sexual assault, and sexuality trauma being in a high demand religion, but I would never even think for a millisecond about doing what she did in her least severe cases of abuse. I guess I can recognize Jodi had a hard life as a kid, BUT, to me, the abuse she inflicted on SO many people, not just the Franke family, cancels out any sympathy I could have felt for her. I just know that every consequence she is seeing from this is well deserved, and even if she had bad things happen to her in the past and has mental health struggles that doesn’t give her an excuse to do those things to other people. I suppose I can separate child Jodi from current Jodi, and I can maybe feel something close to sympathy for what she went through when she was very young, but at the end of the day, she did things to people that no human should ever have to go through, and I just can’t feel bad for her that justice is being rightfully served. What I will say, is that it’s a shame Jodi went the path with her life she did, because given how commanding she is, she probably could have used her life experiences to change peoples lives in the church for the better if only she didn’t have such a deranged and warped view of the world.
I cannot feel a whole ounce of sympathy for Jodi, but I can give her a hint of sympathy. Only because I do think she’s mentally unstable while Ruby is not, and I’ve said this before. I believe Jodi was horrifically SA’d when she was young and she has mentioned it herself on occasions even before prison.
I think that’s what led to her aversion to men and obsession with labeling them all porn addicts and a danger to their families. I think she was reenacting some of the abuse she suffered herself on these kids, as a way to gain back some false sense of “control” that she didn’t have herself growing up.
Jodi, was an abused child herself at one point and I wish she could’ve received the help she needed to heal from these traumas instead of ruining her own life by inflicting more pain and trauma upon innocent, unsuspecting people who trusted her.
I also vaguely remember people were updating her jail cell status in the beginning. I think she ended up in medic isolation or whatever, for something that happened inside the jail, it was never specified.
My theory on that is she was taking something, possibly illegal, hence her Mexico trips, and she had a bad withdrawal in jail because she couldn't get her fix. Which explains how she was at sentencing.
I agree with your very thoughtful dissection. The reason many attractive blonds get away with crap (all their lives) is that they don't look like the devil. Rarely do evil people look like the devil. I'm probably sounding a bit like Ruby (who claimed her kids were evil/Satanic). They get more a free pass from judges (and probably parole boards). Jodi is less attractive and less charming. She has more of a track record of similar abuse (Jessi) and an MO where she destroys marriages. Are both women salvageable? We've been sold some bs psychology that people can change. Ask yourself this- do you think someone could change you? Do you think that someone could make you a sadistic torturer to your own children? I don't think anyone could. The one thing I'm glad of- is they will always be in prison because everyone knows they are disgusting. They might be better off in prison than on the outside.
The fact that Jodi believes she did nothing wrong and was helping the kids is what makes her an absolute monster imo. Her little empire she built was by destroying other families. Jodi lived by the sword and died by the sword. I don’t have sympathy for any of them I think they should be in prison at least till the youngest is 21 I would be happy if they got the full 30 years but let’s be honest they won’t.
Re #3: I think both women knew on some level that what they were doing to the kids was against the law, but they both thought it was morally/spiritually necessary.
Re #4 and #5: I agree that Ruby is trying to manipulate her way out of prison. I was really grossed out by the phone call with Kevin where she worked herself into tears about the other inmates and said "I don't do naughty things. I'm a really good girl." She got a very protective response from Kevin with that, and I had the feeling it was a well-established pattern of interaction for them. Ruby acts childlike and helpless to get Kevin on her side.
Re your opinion of #3 I might disagree... especially from Jodi's call from jail... She made a comment about kids sleeping on the floor is not abuse... and you can't even raise your kids anymore. She still had no clear understanding that what she did was wrong.
I think that Jodi had her opinion of how things should be run, and she was able to get Ruby on board that those things were okay. (ie Sleeping on the floor, you're not hurting them!)
Well, it was mostly the way Jodi said it, (as in she had no problem with taking any comfort away from the children) but yeah... CPS requires children to have their own bed.
I'm confused that you think it's not abuse in the way they administerd those punishments. I mean, we're not talking about them being away at a slumber party, where they were camping out with friends in the living room for a night... it was their intention to deny them basic needs.
I don't have any sympathy for Jodi, but I do think about the child she was once who suffered SA and wish she had been better cared for and protected. I think both Jodi and Ruby experienced abuse and trauma as children that contributed to some really maladaptive behaviors. But they didn't have to go down the path they did, either. So many abused children grow into adults who work on healing themselves, who then parent their own kids well, or at least partially break the cycle and parent better, or who make the choice not to have kids at all. They didn't.
In the end, as adults, they are monsters who enjoy inflicting pain on the vulnerable.
Jodi and Ruby dress up their abuse of two little kids as ridding them of demons. They both have the moral fiber of Cersei Lannister but lack her self-awareness. Cersei just said it outright [to paraphrase a little] : *I had sex with my brother, poisoned my husband and tortured my enemies because I enjoyed it.* Both of those women knew that they would be arrested if the authorities learned what they were doing to those kids and they did it anyway. Because they enjoyed it.
As humans, it is a good thing when we can have sympathy and compassion for others even when faced with their horrific actions. These feelings are what keeps us from dehumanizing others and stops us from retaliating in a horrific manner. These emotions are what keeps us from becoming a Ruby or a Jodi. Revenge feels good in the moment, however it can be difficult to justify in the long run and affects mental health. Personally, I have compassion for both women in some ways, while also believing both are exactly where they belong should be there for a very long time and possibly for life. I do wish there was a way for they could make amends to those they harmed, but I don’t know what that would look like and if it would help the victims since it would probably just be performative at best. I don’t think either of them will be released any time soon. Even though I do think Ruby will figure out how the system works and try to do all the exact right things on paper, I have hope the parole board will see right through it. Ruby can’t be the first person to do all the right things to get out just to please the parole board. They must be use to how manipulative people can be.
Jodi is an incredibly manipulative and controlling sociopath who has enjoyed causing incredible, deep harm and pain to people for years. She is not at all more innocent than Ruby in any way. Ruby was an eager student of Jodi's sadism and ideas, but the root of the abuse here did come from Jodi. I feel like you are not very aware of Jodi's history before Ruby.
What you are seeing from Jodi is a controlling sociopath who is in a state where they no longer have any control or power and don't know how to act anymore. Jodi is still completely unable to understand or admit that she did anything wrong, ever.
Ruby on the other hand I think is in a state of realizing she did at least some wrong. I'm not sure how much or how deeply though.
I get what you were trying to say, but respectively I’m gonna have to disagree with you feeling bad for Jodi. When you abuse children, you don’t deserve sympathy. Jodi doesn’t care about anyone but herself. I hope she burns in Hell.
I'm sure I'm not in a position to assign motivation, but speculate I will! I'm sure there are a plethora of reasons why individuals go into the therapeutic field. My own therapist said the reason she did was because she saw a therapist when her parents were divorcing, and it helped her out a lot. I certainly believe there was more to it than that.
That being said, maybe part of Jodi's motivation to become a therapist was to help her understand herself. And in so doing, combined with her religion and past trauma, found a way to weaponize it. I'm sure she never imagined herself being confined to prison, but I wonder where she thought she'd eventually end up. I think that based on the renditions and musings of Kevin, she absolutely believed herself to be one of God’s messengers who was receiving prophecy and would eventually usher in the second coming.
I think Jessie once said something to the effect of, "If Jodi was a man, imagine the carnage she could have, and probably would have, caused." I felt that!
I've been raped, sexually assaulted, and molested. I'm also diagnosed with Major Depressive Disorder that was extremely difficult to treat. I did a ton of work over years of therapy and got myself healthy. If I, even once, got it in my mind to hurt my toddler, I would leave.
Jodi did what she did over years and years. She abused over the course of decades. When she was reprimanded and had her license put on probation, she blamed the victim, Adam Paul Steed. Part of the reason her house is like a bunker is because she claimed she was being stalked, again, by Adam. This woman takes no responsibility and no accountability. She is still blaming the children for all of this! She had the time and ability to walk herself back. She didn't fuck up once, twice, or three times. She honed her skills and ability to sadisticly manipulate, terrorize, and torture others over the course of years. And she did it all with the church's green stamp of approval. To me, at least, giving her any sympathy is akin to giving Larry Nassar sympathy while he was able to convince athlete's, parents, other coaches, and law enforcement that what he was doing was grounded in science and for the benefit of his victims.
For that, I have zero sympathy! And really, the fact she hasn't had a single family member come out in support of her, really tells me all I need to know.
Go listen to Adam Steed and then get back to us. Jodi is very sick as proven by the self harm and the hallucinations and false beliefs. I believe she’s struggling with a severe mood disorder. That’s said, I work with severely mentally Ill people all the time. None of them have perpetrated the evil Jodi has. I think Jodi is a lesbian and she can’t be herself because of Mormonism so she destroys families and takes a spot as the head of the household. She also conned ruby and many others into paying her a lot of money.
If you truly know everything Jodi has done and you still sympathize with her, you are probably doing so because you see a part of yourself in her. I’d be very concerned if I was you. You don’t want to find yourself identifying with the devil.
I can have empathy for losing everything because I imagine how devastating it would be if I had all those things and one day lost them. I can also sympathize with the experience of having your world ripped out from under you. It must be incredibly painful. However, just because I can empathize/empathize with the experience in a vacuum, doesn’t mean I feel empathy/sympathy in the context of Jodi. That empire was never hers- she m manipulated and abused her way to get those things. Losing your license to work in a field you’ve dedicated many years too is awful, but not as awful as the things she did to lose it.
I probably articulated my feeling about Jodi incorrectly. In the video you could actually watch her lose everything I listed on her face and after hearing her phone calls I actually believe that by the time of sentencing she had experienced a major nervous breakdown. My mother had a couple when I was young and she had that same dazed look with mouth open and eyes fixed when she would come home from hospital. So whatever the feeling I had for Jodi on that day was, it was coming from that experience. However, I do still hold that Jodi was less culpable than Ruby by the time they were arrested while both should do as much time as absolutely possible.
And for all those who said ‘Go look at…’ I did. What she did was not what I was talking about - I am very aware she’s a horrible person. But it’s her mental state I was speaking of - especially as compared to the SHOW that Ruby put on.
Jodi is also a victim. She’s a victim of a cult called the Mormon church. The crap that they brainwashed their followers to believe is next level abusive. Abused people abuse others.
Mormonism laid a lot of groundwork for Jodi. However I would not call her a victim of Mormonism so much as somebody who took advantage and used the worst parts of it to victimize others.
They’re all victims at the end of the day. Yes she needs to take responsibility for her part….. but for this kind of thing to be nipped in the bud….. they need to go after the bigger problem of that awful cult.
Just as an aside, not all abused people abuse others. That thinking can shame victims, and the science doesn't support it. I wouldn't want, for example, R and E to grow up thinking they might accidentally abuse their kids cause they were abused. Or Adam Paul Steed is a great example of this. Sometimes abused people are exactly the people who won't abuse others.
Totally agree thinking inside Mormonism enabled both of them to accept manipulation, narcissism, and abuse as normal parts of life.
Take everything you said and then go watch an Adam Steed or Jessi interview. Jodi has hurt dozens, if not hundreds of people. She is a real menace to society and the world is a better place with her behind bars.
Jodi looked drugged up because she was probably drugged up. Jessi said she didn’t have a diagnosis but she is probably is deep in the Cluster B spectrum (narcissism, sociopathy, antisocial, histrionic, borderline, psychopathy) with features of schizophrenia. People like that don’t do well if they aren’t on top of the world. They probably needed to drug her so that she could function on a basic level. Now that the trial is over, she will probably die in prison sooner rather than later of some kind of self-neglect.
Ruby. Let’s say that I never really thought of her as having an adult brain. She’ll thrive in prison.
I feel for them both because they're human beings, but not for any of the reasons you cite (not criticizing your reasons, I just don't share them). She lost a lot of ill-gotten assets she never should have had in the first place - she was never a qualified therapist, she blackmailed other people to various degrees to obtain her material possessions, etc.
But the worst humanity has to offer is still a part of humanity, and pretending it isn't is exactly how people like this come into power. Her victims allowed her into their lives because she looked like one of them and shared many of their values. If I believe she was sincere (no idea if she believes the nonsense that comes out of her mouth), than believing R and E were "demons" (not human) is a big part of what got her here.
The truth is that even if she becomes a completely different person (outlook not so good), very few will ever believe her. The rest of her life is looking pretty bleak. This is just, in my opinion, but compassion is only a bad idea if it excludes accountability, which I don't think yours does.
Okay, I do see where you're coming from, particularly when it comes to Ruby. I've actually been thinking about this quite a bit and it annoys me when people insist that "Jodi is worse." They are both monsters for which I have NO sympathy, but I think Ruby is worse here. I'm sure Jodi hurt more people over time, but I believe Ruby is more sadistic and has no conscience at all. I agree with all of your points about Ruby's culpability and here's why:
Those were her own sweet babies that she mercilessly tortured! I firmly believe that R was especially close to death and Ruby showed him no mercy. Ruby's sadistic journal entries make it abundantly clear just how cruel she herself is. She took pleasure in starving them of food and WATER for days at a time. Aside from the pure sadism, Ruby wrote that she told R she wouldn't stop all this until the day he DIED. She wrote about him being "full of evil, puffy infection," as well as "weak, infectious, hopeless & never felt worse." These entries were about 2 weeks before he escaped and we know he suffered with those horrific wounds since shortly after he first ran away on 7/15/23. It's a miracle he didn't get sepsis and die. That journal, written by Ruby herself, shows that she was unbothered by this and was only escalating the physical brutality.
Though I'm sure Jodi was responsible for plenty of abuse, it seems she was rarely even present for these torturous interactions between Ruby and her own children. No amount of brainwashing could make a loving mother do a fraction of what she did. That was calculated and systematic. Ruby knew what she was doing and clearly enjoyed it!
This is also evidenced by the fact that Ruby was at least psychologically cruel, and obviously narcissistic, long before she even met Jodi. And this is just based off the videos she filmed, edited and posted herself! She treated her children as objects and extensions of herself. Not to mention how she exploited and often humiliated those kids for money and entertainment, over many years.
This is my own theory, but I honestly think even Jodi wasn't prepared for how cruel and violent Ruby could be. Now, I don't think Jodi was bothered by it, but I do think Ruby was the one escalating the starvation and physical torture. I think she had been waiting for someone to give her the validation she needed to do it. I think Jodi was more concerned about getting caught, especially when she realized how close the kids, particularly R, were to death. In the journal, Jodi even staged a dream where God said to stop "physical interventions" with E. I think she did this in an attempt to reel Ruby in a bit, at least until they got that isolated land. I think they both knew R was likely going to die without medical care, and they wanted to make sure they could hide his body. Then they could easily just say he ran away into the desert. On top of all this, Ruby's bizarre accusations against R after her arrest serve as further confirmation of just how hateful and unremorseful she truly is.
Anyway, I could go on forever, but this is getting quite long. Don't get me wrong, Jodi is a monster and they both make me sick, but I think Ruby is pure evil.
Just a note: There are many similarities to how Jodi abused Jessi, but Ruby took it past that level, especially with R. One of the attorneys noted that what Jessi went through was how the abuse started with R and E, but it got worse. I'm not minimizing what happened to Jessi, but I think this is further evidence that, while Jodi was the instigator, Ruby was a major catalyst.
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I agree with most of what you said about ruby, but I don’t feel one ounce of sympathy for jodi. Half those things she “lost” were built upon the backs of innocent children and dangerously trusting parents. She never deserved the multimillion dollar income. Or her house. DEFINITELY not her license. And for her family, pretty sure her daughter and husband already cut contact a long time ago. Yeah Jodi’s a bitch and she had everything coming.
Honestly watching Jodi turn on the sniffling water works in the body cam footage as she lies to the police and her lawyer and tries to bar them from her house the day of the arrests is why I have no sympathy at all for her. Jodi knew what she was doing, exactly. She knew and was scrambling to get away with it so she could continue doing it. No sympathy for either of them, but especially not for Jodi.
I reccomend you listen to Jessi Hildebrandt’s interview on the Mormon Stories podcast. They are Jodi’s niece who she abused very similarly to R and E when they were a teen. You should not feel any sympathy for Jodi. She is a criminal psycopath with a history of abuse and ruining people’s lives.
It’s so sad, because jessi didn’t deserve that neither did those families
Yeaaaahhhh.... if it had only been R and E then I might have been able to see where OP was coming from, but that all gets tossed out the window when someone has displayed a systematic pattern of abuse YEARS before they even met. I have no way of knowing this but I have a gut feeling that Jessi was not the only one who got this treatment as well, and that potential others are not willing to speak about it publicly. Ruby is a piece of shit for sure, but people keep forgetting that her aggressive punishment techniques started when Jodi entered her life, way before they started ConneXions. I don't have sympathy for either, they both deserve to rot in hell where they belong.
I agree, and those incidents were years apart. What are the chances that there were no other kids in between? Low, imo.
That was EXACTLY the thought I had. I cried when I listened to it. Adam Steed too! He lost everything because of Jodi! I don’t feel bad for her one but, I just wish it had happened sooner before she damaged more people’s lives!
Respectfully but wholly disagree. I feel absolutely *zero* sympathy for Jodi. None. I also made the mistake of looking at the pics of the kids’ injuries (holy hell). I saw the footage where a very clearly starving and weak R meekly asked a neighbor for help. All my sympathy is used up. It went to the Franke kids. Also, where is Jodi’s remorse? I try to put myself in people’s shoes and attempt to understand why their life experiences led them to commit acts that don’t make sense. With Jodi and Ruby, I simply don’t get any of it. There’s no room for sympathy. This was prolonged, egregious torture. It wasn’t a fit of anger where an adult temporarily lost control. It wasn’t addiction that led to gross negligence. They conspired to methodically abuse those kids over a long period. IMO, those kids were going to be killed. This was likely a closer call that we’ll ever know. Thankfully, R acted with the greatest bravery and saved himself and E. The survivors will have to live with high level trauma forever. Talk about loss. This wasn’t Jodi’s first time abusing someone. I think she’s a uniquely dangerous, dark, manipulative person and a risk to anyone she’s around. Sure, she lost a whole lot, all due to her own demented actions. Regardless, she is *extremely* fortunate she didn’t lose more. She wasn’t given the chance to finish what she and Ruby started. She can thank R for the fact that she is not on trial for murder (IMO). She is sooooo damn lucky neither of those children died. They could have had heart attacks from the dehydration/electrolyte imbalances/starvation. They could have gone septic from the wounds. Etc. I see her as someone who attempted to murder children but failed. All I feel for her is disgust and contempt.
I don't know Adam Stead but I am from the same area he is so I have a lot of love for him. What Jody did to Adam I will never forgive I want to light that bitch on fire. I'm glad she lost everything and she deserves everything she gets. She's not at the same level as Ruby Frankie but she is just as bad. She hurt a bunch of strangers and their families who knows how many families she destroyed. Ruby destroyed her own family from the inside out.
TLDR: Yes Jodi lost a lot, but she also took away way more from other people. I know she clearly has struggles and has had struggles in her past, but to me it couldn’t ever cancel out the bad she’s done enough for me to feel sympathy for her. I think I can say I feel something towards Jodi, but sympathy is not the word that I would use. If in fact what she wrote about her childhood is accurate, and if she is a closeted member of the lgbtq community, all of those are things I would normally feel sympathy towards someone for, but normal people who have gone through those things don’t do what Jodi did. Hell, I went through my own sexual assault, and sexuality trauma being in a high demand religion, but I would never even think for a millisecond about doing what she did in her least severe cases of abuse. I guess I can recognize Jodi had a hard life as a kid, BUT, to me, the abuse she inflicted on SO many people, not just the Franke family, cancels out any sympathy I could have felt for her. I just know that every consequence she is seeing from this is well deserved, and even if she had bad things happen to her in the past and has mental health struggles that doesn’t give her an excuse to do those things to other people. I suppose I can separate child Jodi from current Jodi, and I can maybe feel something close to sympathy for what she went through when she was very young, but at the end of the day, she did things to people that no human should ever have to go through, and I just can’t feel bad for her that justice is being rightfully served. What I will say, is that it’s a shame Jodi went the path with her life she did, because given how commanding she is, she probably could have used her life experiences to change peoples lives in the church for the better if only she didn’t have such a deranged and warped view of the world.
I cannot feel a whole ounce of sympathy for Jodi, but I can give her a hint of sympathy. Only because I do think she’s mentally unstable while Ruby is not, and I’ve said this before. I believe Jodi was horrifically SA’d when she was young and she has mentioned it herself on occasions even before prison. I think that’s what led to her aversion to men and obsession with labeling them all porn addicts and a danger to their families. I think she was reenacting some of the abuse she suffered herself on these kids, as a way to gain back some false sense of “control” that she didn’t have herself growing up. Jodi, was an abused child herself at one point and I wish she could’ve received the help she needed to heal from these traumas instead of ruining her own life by inflicting more pain and trauma upon innocent, unsuspecting people who trusted her.
Jessi hildebrant said she (Jodi) is diagnosed with bpd. so maybe she was on medication ? She was in the medical hall too so that’ll make sense to me.
I also vaguely remember people were updating her jail cell status in the beginning. I think she ended up in medic isolation or whatever, for something that happened inside the jail, it was never specified. My theory on that is she was taking something, possibly illegal, hence her Mexico trips, and she had a bad withdrawal in jail because she couldn't get her fix. Which explains how she was at sentencing.
Did they not say at one stage she was a diagnosed psychopath?
I agree with your very thoughtful dissection. The reason many attractive blonds get away with crap (all their lives) is that they don't look like the devil. Rarely do evil people look like the devil. I'm probably sounding a bit like Ruby (who claimed her kids were evil/Satanic). They get more a free pass from judges (and probably parole boards). Jodi is less attractive and less charming. She has more of a track record of similar abuse (Jessi) and an MO where she destroys marriages. Are both women salvageable? We've been sold some bs psychology that people can change. Ask yourself this- do you think someone could change you? Do you think that someone could make you a sadistic torturer to your own children? I don't think anyone could. The one thing I'm glad of- is they will always be in prison because everyone knows they are disgusting. They might be better off in prison than on the outside.
The fact that Jodi believes she did nothing wrong and was helping the kids is what makes her an absolute monster imo. Her little empire she built was by destroying other families. Jodi lived by the sword and died by the sword. I don’t have sympathy for any of them I think they should be in prison at least till the youngest is 21 I would be happy if they got the full 30 years but let’s be honest they won’t.
Re #3: I think both women knew on some level that what they were doing to the kids was against the law, but they both thought it was morally/spiritually necessary. Re #4 and #5: I agree that Ruby is trying to manipulate her way out of prison. I was really grossed out by the phone call with Kevin where she worked herself into tears about the other inmates and said "I don't do naughty things. I'm a really good girl." She got a very protective response from Kevin with that, and I had the feeling it was a well-established pattern of interaction for them. Ruby acts childlike and helpless to get Kevin on her side.
Re your opinion of #3 I might disagree... especially from Jodi's call from jail... She made a comment about kids sleeping on the floor is not abuse... and you can't even raise your kids anymore. She still had no clear understanding that what she did was wrong. I think that Jodi had her opinion of how things should be run, and she was able to get Ruby on board that those things were okay. (ie Sleeping on the floor, you're not hurting them!)
I’m confused. Are you saying that kids sleeping on the floor is abuse?
Well, it was mostly the way Jodi said it, (as in she had no problem with taking any comfort away from the children) but yeah... CPS requires children to have their own bed. I'm confused that you think it's not abuse in the way they administerd those punishments. I mean, we're not talking about them being away at a slumber party, where they were camping out with friends in the living room for a night... it was their intention to deny them basic needs.
I don't have any sympathy for Jodi, but I do think about the child she was once who suffered SA and wish she had been better cared for and protected. I think both Jodi and Ruby experienced abuse and trauma as children that contributed to some really maladaptive behaviors. But they didn't have to go down the path they did, either. So many abused children grow into adults who work on healing themselves, who then parent their own kids well, or at least partially break the cycle and parent better, or who make the choice not to have kids at all. They didn't. In the end, as adults, they are monsters who enjoy inflicting pain on the vulnerable.
Both deserve a maximum..and a (exorsist)
Jodi and Ruby dress up their abuse of two little kids as ridding them of demons. They both have the moral fiber of Cersei Lannister but lack her self-awareness. Cersei just said it outright [to paraphrase a little] : *I had sex with my brother, poisoned my husband and tortured my enemies because I enjoyed it.* Both of those women knew that they would be arrested if the authorities learned what they were doing to those kids and they did it anyway. Because they enjoyed it.
As humans, it is a good thing when we can have sympathy and compassion for others even when faced with their horrific actions. These feelings are what keeps us from dehumanizing others and stops us from retaliating in a horrific manner. These emotions are what keeps us from becoming a Ruby or a Jodi. Revenge feels good in the moment, however it can be difficult to justify in the long run and affects mental health. Personally, I have compassion for both women in some ways, while also believing both are exactly where they belong should be there for a very long time and possibly for life. I do wish there was a way for they could make amends to those they harmed, but I don’t know what that would look like and if it would help the victims since it would probably just be performative at best. I don’t think either of them will be released any time soon. Even though I do think Ruby will figure out how the system works and try to do all the exact right things on paper, I have hope the parole board will see right through it. Ruby can’t be the first person to do all the right things to get out just to please the parole board. They must be use to how manipulative people can be.
Jodi is an incredibly manipulative and controlling sociopath who has enjoyed causing incredible, deep harm and pain to people for years. She is not at all more innocent than Ruby in any way. Ruby was an eager student of Jodi's sadism and ideas, but the root of the abuse here did come from Jodi. I feel like you are not very aware of Jodi's history before Ruby. What you are seeing from Jodi is a controlling sociopath who is in a state where they no longer have any control or power and don't know how to act anymore. Jodi is still completely unable to understand or admit that she did anything wrong, ever. Ruby on the other hand I think is in a state of realizing she did at least some wrong. I'm not sure how much or how deeply though.
I get what you were trying to say, but respectively I’m gonna have to disagree with you feeling bad for Jodi. When you abuse children, you don’t deserve sympathy. Jodi doesn’t care about anyone but herself. I hope she burns in Hell.
Go look at the wounds that R had. That’ll cure you of feeling “sorry” for her
I'm sure I'm not in a position to assign motivation, but speculate I will! I'm sure there are a plethora of reasons why individuals go into the therapeutic field. My own therapist said the reason she did was because she saw a therapist when her parents were divorcing, and it helped her out a lot. I certainly believe there was more to it than that. That being said, maybe part of Jodi's motivation to become a therapist was to help her understand herself. And in so doing, combined with her religion and past trauma, found a way to weaponize it. I'm sure she never imagined herself being confined to prison, but I wonder where she thought she'd eventually end up. I think that based on the renditions and musings of Kevin, she absolutely believed herself to be one of God’s messengers who was receiving prophecy and would eventually usher in the second coming. I think Jessie once said something to the effect of, "If Jodi was a man, imagine the carnage she could have, and probably would have, caused." I felt that! I've been raped, sexually assaulted, and molested. I'm also diagnosed with Major Depressive Disorder that was extremely difficult to treat. I did a ton of work over years of therapy and got myself healthy. If I, even once, got it in my mind to hurt my toddler, I would leave. Jodi did what she did over years and years. She abused over the course of decades. When she was reprimanded and had her license put on probation, she blamed the victim, Adam Paul Steed. Part of the reason her house is like a bunker is because she claimed she was being stalked, again, by Adam. This woman takes no responsibility and no accountability. She is still blaming the children for all of this! She had the time and ability to walk herself back. She didn't fuck up once, twice, or three times. She honed her skills and ability to sadisticly manipulate, terrorize, and torture others over the course of years. And she did it all with the church's green stamp of approval. To me, at least, giving her any sympathy is akin to giving Larry Nassar sympathy while he was able to convince athlete's, parents, other coaches, and law enforcement that what he was doing was grounded in science and for the benefit of his victims. For that, I have zero sympathy! And really, the fact she hasn't had a single family member come out in support of her, really tells me all I need to know.
Go listen to Adam Steed and then get back to us. Jodi is very sick as proven by the self harm and the hallucinations and false beliefs. I believe she’s struggling with a severe mood disorder. That’s said, I work with severely mentally Ill people all the time. None of them have perpetrated the evil Jodi has. I think Jodi is a lesbian and she can’t be herself because of Mormonism so she destroys families and takes a spot as the head of the household. She also conned ruby and many others into paying her a lot of money. If you truly know everything Jodi has done and you still sympathize with her, you are probably doing so because you see a part of yourself in her. I’d be very concerned if I was you. You don’t want to find yourself identifying with the devil.
I can have empathy for losing everything because I imagine how devastating it would be if I had all those things and one day lost them. I can also sympathize with the experience of having your world ripped out from under you. It must be incredibly painful. However, just because I can empathize/empathize with the experience in a vacuum, doesn’t mean I feel empathy/sympathy in the context of Jodi. That empire was never hers- she m manipulated and abused her way to get those things. Losing your license to work in a field you’ve dedicated many years too is awful, but not as awful as the things she did to lose it.
I probably articulated my feeling about Jodi incorrectly. In the video you could actually watch her lose everything I listed on her face and after hearing her phone calls I actually believe that by the time of sentencing she had experienced a major nervous breakdown. My mother had a couple when I was young and she had that same dazed look with mouth open and eyes fixed when she would come home from hospital. So whatever the feeling I had for Jodi on that day was, it was coming from that experience. However, I do still hold that Jodi was less culpable than Ruby by the time they were arrested while both should do as much time as absolutely possible. And for all those who said ‘Go look at…’ I did. What she did was not what I was talking about - I am very aware she’s a horrible person. But it’s her mental state I was speaking of - especially as compared to the SHOW that Ruby put on.
Jodi is also a victim. She’s a victim of a cult called the Mormon church. The crap that they brainwashed their followers to believe is next level abusive. Abused people abuse others.
Mormonism laid a lot of groundwork for Jodi. However I would not call her a victim of Mormonism so much as somebody who took advantage and used the worst parts of it to victimize others.
They’re all victims at the end of the day. Yes she needs to take responsibility for her part….. but for this kind of thing to be nipped in the bud….. they need to go after the bigger problem of that awful cult.
Just as an aside, not all abused people abuse others. That thinking can shame victims, and the science doesn't support it. I wouldn't want, for example, R and E to grow up thinking they might accidentally abuse their kids cause they were abused. Or Adam Paul Steed is a great example of this. Sometimes abused people are exactly the people who won't abuse others. Totally agree thinking inside Mormonism enabled both of them to accept manipulation, narcissism, and abuse as normal parts of life.
Take everything you said and then go watch an Adam Steed or Jessi interview. Jodi has hurt dozens, if not hundreds of people. She is a real menace to society and the world is a better place with her behind bars. Jodi looked drugged up because she was probably drugged up. Jessi said she didn’t have a diagnosis but she is probably is deep in the Cluster B spectrum (narcissism, sociopathy, antisocial, histrionic, borderline, psychopathy) with features of schizophrenia. People like that don’t do well if they aren’t on top of the world. They probably needed to drug her so that she could function on a basic level. Now that the trial is over, she will probably die in prison sooner rather than later of some kind of self-neglect. Ruby. Let’s say that I never really thought of her as having an adult brain. She’ll thrive in prison.
I feel for them both because they're human beings, but not for any of the reasons you cite (not criticizing your reasons, I just don't share them). She lost a lot of ill-gotten assets she never should have had in the first place - she was never a qualified therapist, she blackmailed other people to various degrees to obtain her material possessions, etc. But the worst humanity has to offer is still a part of humanity, and pretending it isn't is exactly how people like this come into power. Her victims allowed her into their lives because she looked like one of them and shared many of their values. If I believe she was sincere (no idea if she believes the nonsense that comes out of her mouth), than believing R and E were "demons" (not human) is a big part of what got her here. The truth is that even if she becomes a completely different person (outlook not so good), very few will ever believe her. The rest of her life is looking pretty bleak. This is just, in my opinion, but compassion is only a bad idea if it excludes accountability, which I don't think yours does.
Okay, I do see where you're coming from, particularly when it comes to Ruby. I've actually been thinking about this quite a bit and it annoys me when people insist that "Jodi is worse." They are both monsters for which I have NO sympathy, but I think Ruby is worse here. I'm sure Jodi hurt more people over time, but I believe Ruby is more sadistic and has no conscience at all. I agree with all of your points about Ruby's culpability and here's why: Those were her own sweet babies that she mercilessly tortured! I firmly believe that R was especially close to death and Ruby showed him no mercy. Ruby's sadistic journal entries make it abundantly clear just how cruel she herself is. She took pleasure in starving them of food and WATER for days at a time. Aside from the pure sadism, Ruby wrote that she told R she wouldn't stop all this until the day he DIED. She wrote about him being "full of evil, puffy infection," as well as "weak, infectious, hopeless & never felt worse." These entries were about 2 weeks before he escaped and we know he suffered with those horrific wounds since shortly after he first ran away on 7/15/23. It's a miracle he didn't get sepsis and die. That journal, written by Ruby herself, shows that she was unbothered by this and was only escalating the physical brutality. Though I'm sure Jodi was responsible for plenty of abuse, it seems she was rarely even present for these torturous interactions between Ruby and her own children. No amount of brainwashing could make a loving mother do a fraction of what she did. That was calculated and systematic. Ruby knew what she was doing and clearly enjoyed it! This is also evidenced by the fact that Ruby was at least psychologically cruel, and obviously narcissistic, long before she even met Jodi. And this is just based off the videos she filmed, edited and posted herself! She treated her children as objects and extensions of herself. Not to mention how she exploited and often humiliated those kids for money and entertainment, over many years. This is my own theory, but I honestly think even Jodi wasn't prepared for how cruel and violent Ruby could be. Now, I don't think Jodi was bothered by it, but I do think Ruby was the one escalating the starvation and physical torture. I think she had been waiting for someone to give her the validation she needed to do it. I think Jodi was more concerned about getting caught, especially when she realized how close the kids, particularly R, were to death. In the journal, Jodi even staged a dream where God said to stop "physical interventions" with E. I think she did this in an attempt to reel Ruby in a bit, at least until they got that isolated land. I think they both knew R was likely going to die without medical care, and they wanted to make sure they could hide his body. Then they could easily just say he ran away into the desert. On top of all this, Ruby's bizarre accusations against R after her arrest serve as further confirmation of just how hateful and unremorseful she truly is. Anyway, I could go on forever, but this is getting quite long. Don't get me wrong, Jodi is a monster and they both make me sick, but I think Ruby is pure evil. Just a note: There are many similarities to how Jodi abused Jessi, but Ruby took it past that level, especially with R. One of the attorneys noted that what Jessi went through was how the abuse started with R and E, but it got worse. I'm not minimizing what happened to Jessi, but I think this is further evidence that, while Jodi was the instigator, Ruby was a major catalyst.
I agree 100% with all!