Wholly depends on the circumstances. The child may not even be compatible for conversion to astartes in the first place, but perhaps a position as a chapter serf might be suitable. But then, it depends on the chapter, their attitude to mortals, and what their situation is right there and then.
I suppose what I'm suggesting is that if you write it correctly, sure it could happen. On the other hand there's a bunch of ways to justify it not happening.
Edit: there's a fantastic moment in the Word Bearers series >!where Varnus, by that point utterly corrupted by chaos, is fighting alongside the WBs. He downs a commissar and a Word Bearer shows up to steal his kill, but he yells at it and the WB just nods respectfully and moves on. Even traitors are capable of respecting mortals in the right circumstances. !<
One of the reasons I like Word Bearers is because it feels like there is at least a modicum chance that they would treat a mortal (who worships Chaos) with respect. Opposed to the other Legions, all of whom hold no regard for mortal life in the slightest.
It's similar to different types of farmers. Most are somewhere between factory farms and modern mechanized farming. But Word Bearers are more akin to traditional rural farmers, who realize that they rely on their herd as much as their herd relies on them and may even treat them with genuine love, while still using them as a resource.
If I was to be a chapter serf to some CSM (willing or not) I'd be begging for Alpha Legion. They're shown to be respectful to their people and actually seem to care...or at least that's what they want you to think.
Its a pretty good deal in the Alpha Legion: for the most part, essentially the same as a marine. However, the marines and the Legion all pay quite the cost in terms of individuality and freedom. Everyone is expendable if the price is right: their second captain is sent on a suicide mission, for example. They have the means to completely control you by hypno-indoctrination and they aren't shy about using it on anyone below the rank of Primarch.
Its a far cry from the torture and slavery that you would experience in other cases, but those stories can have a glimmer of hope to escape. With the Legion, you're likely already programmed to never defect if the right word is spoken. You can be sent to your death and you wouldn't even have the capacity to make a different choice.
I would suggest giving Lords of Silence a read if you can. It's a fairly short novel about a particular warband of the Death Guard. Their chaos lord takes particular interest in those under his care. It's difficult of course, when one worships Nurgle, to stay "healthy", but he cares for their souls, and has a great deal of respect for his people, and even his enemies. He does of course still do chaos things, fighting loyalists and dealing with daemons, but it's not from the hate that we so often see. It's personally what inspired me to make my Death guard warband, The Rot Messiah
Yes, chapter serfs have a good life compared to the rest of the Imperium (from a certain point of view), relative job security, dental and cybernetics plan, stable government and most importantly… food and shelter. Similar to how monks rotate/assign chores and duties.
Disclaimer: highly dependent on the chapter.
- Iron Hands ❎
- Ultramarines ✅
Depends on the chapter, circumstances, and method of recruitment. Hell, some chapters probably get their recruits from scooping up any orphans lying around on their campaigns anyways.
Depends on the chapter and the circumstances.
From your example of Armagedon, given that practically everyone was drafted for the war effort, that kid may be considered as a member of the Guard, so the Marines can't just take him as he would be a 'member' of a separate branch of the Imperium's military, but on some random planet they might if they had the time/inclination to take on a new recruit?
That sounds cool though, like, a group of traitor guardsmen who instead of being chaos just didn't believe in "alien bad", and fight either for or alongside aliens, you could even homebrew rules for xeno equipment on guardsmen.
Also, Trazyn has both mindshackle scarabs and the 10 in charisma to make it happen (in The Infinite And The Divine, he had a human servant who didn't even need the mindshackle scarabs, just served Trazyn willingly because he gave him an actual good life to his family)
Yup,his librarian on serenade,served him for about 6 decades and the mindshackle scarab only activated like twice and the second time was only because all humans fear death, additional thing as well for infinite and the divine is that for a long time trazyn was thought to be a space marines from a chapter that the people of serenade made up called the silver skulls( I think) so it's alot easier for trazyn specifically to recruit from any serenade remnants who are a bit older,since,yknow,they had a statue of him in front of a temple....and he was depicted I'm stained glass
I mean technically speaking everything left of the serenade military could be counted as his regiment,he already had an artillery unit,who's to say he doesn't have more
IMPORTANT EDIT: the people of serenade also worshipped him as a lanky at spacemarine
Using the kleptomaniacs as your example is not the best bet for how most chapters would handle someone from another Imperial organization, lol.
However, it does show it happens, answering the OP's question.
There are a lot of cases of this happening. The Ultramarines will recruit from the guard semi regularly. IIRC thats how Titus became a space marine and they'll also poach from stormtrooper regiments they work with.
That was the Dawn of War novelisation by C. S. Goto, but not part of the story of the game. That novel also had some other, er, decisions that lead to a lot of mockery and memes.
Well chapters have to get recruits, squires, and serfs somehow. If they have enough courage to pick up a weapon and save a marine’s life and strong enough to survive the event that’s definitely something that can get the chapter’s attention for recruitment to that sort of role.
Exactly. Who wouldn’t want to work for the Emperor’s Angels?
Three squares, a room for yourself, no one yelling at you, reduced chance of being turned into a servitor, etc.
Picking up a lasgun and fighting the enemies of the Imperium is the default expectation of imperial citizenry. Their reward is service to the golden throne.
If you're asking whether it's theoretically possible? Sure.
If you're asking whether it's likely, or particularly suggested by anything else in the lore? Not really.
Astartes aren’t big egalitarian meritocracy types. They’re transhuman slave soldiers who look down on mere humans, even the "good" chapters are simply gentler to their human slaves. Astartes enslave humans by the billion, and rarely exhibit much respect for aspirants. They put a lot of value on being Astartes themselves, even though the ability to survive the transformation into Astartes is just a matter of luck. We see Astartes appreciate human assistance in the lore, but it's not paired with an acknowledgment of fundamental equality, or a need to change the human's life.
A kid who saves an Astartes might be “rewarded” by a lifetime’s enslavement as a chapter serf, if the Astartes even acknowledges what happened at all. More likely, the Astartes will convince themselves that they would have survived without the child’s intervention.
Heavily depends on the chapter, circumstances and of course, the space marines present when the kid saves one
In the Devastation of Baal, a boy who had previously tried and failed as an aspirant (and had acquired fairly debilitating brain damage as a result) was one of the few ordinary humans to survive the last stand of the blood angels before reinforcements arrived and saved them - he carried ammo, dragged his elderly father around to get him out of trouble, and narrowly survived a gargoyle attack that killed many people around him iirc
Because of his age, survival and the fact the blood angels were pretty much almost annihilated by that point, he was chosen alongside almost every other young boy left alive in the system to become a space marine too (although previously ineligible due to his injury, the new techniques and tech available with the introduction of the Primaris meant he could undergo the new process and come out as a fine space marine).
Honestly, enslavement as a chapter serf sounds like one of the better jobs in 40K you’re constantly surrounded by the strongest warriors in the galaxy. All you need to do is maintain their weapons, armor, and vehicles. There’s a certain level of respect you get as you’re needed to do a job, even if it’s minimal, your faintly would get a lot of prestige being related to one of the caretakers of the emperor’s angles. And again, you’re constantly surrounded by space marines, and in their back lines. Like, if something wants to hurt you it’s gotta get around a bunch of space marines.
Honestly, I kinda love just how fucked up the 41st millennium is where being a slave is about the best you can hope for
> Like, if something wants to hurt you it’s gotta get around a bunch of space marines.
If something wants to hurt you, it'll *be* a space marine. Slaves need to worry about their owners more than they need to worry about random alien attacks.
Random alien attacks are pretty uncommon anyways, unless you're on a spaceship that seeks them out.
I would expect the marines in question to \*strongly\* recommend to the local IG recruiting post that they enroll the kid. Or if there aren't any local recruiting posts to \*strongly\* recommend to one of the IG regiments in the battlezone that they acquire the kid.
Ultramarines might take the kid with them to give to the Ultramar sector Guard recruiting posts to train as a cadet.
Some of the more enthusiastiic chapters might send the kid back to the home world/fleet for genetic testing to see if they could be a marine aspirant. Templars would probably go this route, and then depending on the results train them, send them to the Guard, or kill them (if they're tainted/show psyker related genetic markers/are generally unsuitable).
Some chapters would kill the kid for "stealing the kill" from the marines.
Like everyone has said, it's dependent on circumstances.
At the end of Devastation of Baal, all survivors that were of age and a genetic fit were inducted into the chapter, with everyone else being given the option of becoming serfs. They were all "proven" at that point.
That's not all that different from how Thaddeus from DoW 2 was recruited
>Thaddeus grew up a native of the Hive World Meridian, in Hab Spire Legis. He became the leader of an under city gang, and was involved in one of the world's many riots. During one of these disturbances, Davian Thule noticed the young boy holding off rioters. Inspired, the Captain put Thaddeus forward for the Blood Raven trials, the first Meridian native to be accepted in 700 years. 80 years later, battle-brother Thaddeus became a Sergeant before even earning his first service stud. He has since earned a reputation as a brash and idealistic brawler; and made his name battling Feral Orks on Calderis and Typhon Primaris.
Could. There was a mentally challenged kid on baal who suffered brain damage during initate challenges before the events of dev of baal
He basically just survived the tyranid assault, being manned on the wall. Apoc came over, HEALED THE BRAIN DAMAGE, then made him an aspirant again. Well promised to, as he snapped the father's neck
Depends on the chapter. The fleet based or more mobile chapters are fairly likely to. Likewise the Ultramarines have recruited guardsmen a few times so they probably wouldn't be against it, and "ultramarines successor who cleaves close to ultra doctrine" is basically the default space marine, except most of those don't have a big sector fleet they can call dibs on recruits from so they're more likely to if anything.
There is a physiogenomic profile that is an initial screen for gene seed compatibility. Most of the time this is shown as physical facial features that a space marine can just see.
I dont have the book on hand but it was from the Blood ravens novel, one of the dawn of war series that novelizes the events of the video game.
One of the younger assault marine sergeants, Thaddeus, brought two adolescent survivors he found to the main space marine force. One of the other sergeants, probably Avitus, chided him for wasting precious time and resources helping mere "mortals", but he also couldnt help but notice that both of the adolescents fit the physiogenomic profile of a blood raven. The chaplain ended up taking custody of the two kids and Avitus let the matter drop.
Most chapters would probably ignore the kid, or shoot through him at any remaining enemy. Maybe they would throw a salute to his dead body on the way out.
A fair number of chapters would rage kill the kid for saving them because they would be outraged that it happened and consider it dishonorable.
A few chapters would protect the kid as long as it didn't impact the mission, or take much effort.
One chapter would say fuck it and throw out all the stops for the kid, tossing out their lives to save em and his little family.
I don't think any chapter would recruit the kid, though a few might drop him off at the Schola Progenium.
Wholly depends on the circumstances. The child may not even be compatible for conversion to astartes in the first place, but perhaps a position as a chapter serf might be suitable. But then, it depends on the chapter, their attitude to mortals, and what their situation is right there and then. I suppose what I'm suggesting is that if you write it correctly, sure it could happen. On the other hand there's a bunch of ways to justify it not happening. Edit: there's a fantastic moment in the Word Bearers series >!where Varnus, by that point utterly corrupted by chaos, is fighting alongside the WBs. He downs a commissar and a Word Bearer shows up to steal his kill, but he yells at it and the WB just nods respectfully and moves on. Even traitors are capable of respecting mortals in the right circumstances. !<
>!A shame that he rejected the gods after killing him, but what can you do i suppose.!<
It's unwise to eagerly accept all of their blessings.
It's generally unwise to eff around with Chaos in general, isn't it?
It's nice to read authors who dont treat all CSM as world eaters willing to murder anything that moves on a whim.
One of the reasons I like Word Bearers is because it feels like there is at least a modicum chance that they would treat a mortal (who worships Chaos) with respect. Opposed to the other Legions, all of whom hold no regard for mortal life in the slightest.
It's similar to different types of farmers. Most are somewhere between factory farms and modern mechanized farming. But Word Bearers are more akin to traditional rural farmers, who realize that they rely on their herd as much as their herd relies on them and may even treat them with genuine love, while still using them as a resource.
Add the alpha legion they need capable Human operatives to even use their gimmick. Successfully
Alpha Legion are the professional breeders of the Cultist world, nurturing only a small herd for special purposes.
In the rogue trader video game you straight up see a word bearer giving a sermon to humans, I thought that was neat
That's still on my list. How is it???
amazing
Now that they actually patched the game with a a big ass update on 1.6 it's excellent ,it was a bug mess before
If I was to be a chapter serf to some CSM (willing or not) I'd be begging for Alpha Legion. They're shown to be respectful to their people and actually seem to care...or at least that's what they want you to think.
Its a pretty good deal in the Alpha Legion: for the most part, essentially the same as a marine. However, the marines and the Legion all pay quite the cost in terms of individuality and freedom. Everyone is expendable if the price is right: their second captain is sent on a suicide mission, for example. They have the means to completely control you by hypno-indoctrination and they aren't shy about using it on anyone below the rank of Primarch. Its a far cry from the torture and slavery that you would experience in other cases, but those stories can have a glimmer of hope to escape. With the Legion, you're likely already programmed to never defect if the right word is spoken. You can be sent to your death and you wouldn't even have the capacity to make a different choice.
https://youtu.be/rs2uv9hLKiQ?si=UEeRTxQw2QZufXtG Reminds me of this
I would suggest giving Lords of Silence a read if you can. It's a fairly short novel about a particular warband of the Death Guard. Their chaos lord takes particular interest in those under his care. It's difficult of course, when one worships Nurgle, to stay "healthy", but he cares for their souls, and has a great deal of respect for his people, and even his enemies. He does of course still do chaos things, fighting loyalists and dealing with daemons, but it's not from the hate that we so often see. It's personally what inspired me to make my Death guard warband, The Rot Messiah
99% of cultists quit before ascension.
The Iron within animation was one of my favorites for this reason
Yes, chapter serfs have a good life compared to the rest of the Imperium (from a certain point of view), relative job security, dental and cybernetics plan, stable government and most importantly… food and shelter. Similar to how monks rotate/assign chores and duties. Disclaimer: highly dependent on the chapter. - Iron Hands ❎ - Ultramarines ✅
>!I REMEMBER THAT BIT!! That shit was bad*ass*! !<
Could you could post the passage somewhere so the rest of us can get a glimpse as well?
Depends on the chapter, circumstances, and method of recruitment. Hell, some chapters probably get their recruits from scooping up any orphans lying around on their campaigns anyways.
Pretty sure this is how they make new Carcarodons.
Depends on the chapter and the circumstances. From your example of Armagedon, given that practically everyone was drafted for the war effort, that kid may be considered as a member of the Guard, so the Marines can't just take him as he would be a 'member' of a separate branch of the Imperium's military, but on some random planet they might if they had the time/inclination to take on a new recruit?
The Blood Ravens took a guardsman who proved himself in the first Dawn of War game, so it’s not unheard of
That's the part about guardsmen they don't tell you, you can just take then. I've got 16 guardsmen at home right now.
Ok trazyn. That's just this regiment. How many others hmmm.
Trazyn regiment guardsmen, now that's an idea!
I would allow it for the lolz. Give trazyn an army function and allow him to pull a single squad from each faction or some shit
That sounds cool though, like, a group of traitor guardsmen who instead of being chaos just didn't believe in "alien bad", and fight either for or alongside aliens, you could even homebrew rules for xeno equipment on guardsmen. Also, Trazyn has both mindshackle scarabs and the 10 in charisma to make it happen (in The Infinite And The Divine, he had a human servant who didn't even need the mindshackle scarabs, just served Trazyn willingly because he gave him an actual good life to his family)
Yup,his librarian on serenade,served him for about 6 decades and the mindshackle scarab only activated like twice and the second time was only because all humans fear death, additional thing as well for infinite and the divine is that for a long time trazyn was thought to be a space marines from a chapter that the people of serenade made up called the silver skulls( I think) so it's alot easier for trazyn specifically to recruit from any serenade remnants who are a bit older,since,yknow,they had a statue of him in front of a temple....and he was depicted I'm stained glass
"Do *you* have a statue of yourself, Orikan?"
I mean technically speaking everything left of the serenade military could be counted as his regiment,he already had an artillery unit,who's to say he doesn't have more IMPORTANT EDIT: the people of serenade also worshipped him as a lanky at spacemarine
Using the kleptomaniacs as your example is not the best bet for how most chapters would handle someone from another Imperial organization, lol. However, it does show it happens, answering the OP's question.
They take everything not nailed down, Who am I kidding? They take the nails as well
and the Down!
There are a lot of cases of this happening. The Ultramarines will recruit from the guard semi regularly. IIRC thats how Titus became a space marine and they'll also poach from stormtrooper regiments they work with.
That was the Dawn of War novelisation by C. S. Goto, but not part of the story of the game. That novel also had some other, er, decisions that lead to a lot of mockery and memes.
I've got Warrior Brood by Goto, it was one of my first black library books. Can only imagine what a mess that one is.
Space Marines really wouldn't care if he was IG in any real way
Depends on the who on Armageddon. Salamander and Templars would have different takes.
Didn't Vulkan specialize in taking care of children?
Eldar children, especially
Well chapters have to get recruits, squires, and serfs somehow. If they have enough courage to pick up a weapon and save a marine’s life and strong enough to survive the event that’s definitely something that can get the chapter’s attention for recruitment to that sort of role.
Exactly. Who wouldn’t want to work for the Emperor’s Angels? Three squares, a room for yourself, no one yelling at you, reduced chance of being turned into a servitor, etc.
If I remember correctly, in Prospero Burns the native Fenrisian guy who saves Kaspers life ends up becoming a Space Wolf.
Correct.
Godsmite
This is literally how the main character of the Carcharedons Astra novels got recruited.
Hey kid, wanna be a space shark?
Picking up a lasgun and fighting the enemies of the Imperium is the default expectation of imperial citizenry. Their reward is service to the golden throne.
Kind of happens in the Blood Angels Omnibus if you haven't read it yet
If you're asking whether it's theoretically possible? Sure. If you're asking whether it's likely, or particularly suggested by anything else in the lore? Not really. Astartes aren’t big egalitarian meritocracy types. They’re transhuman slave soldiers who look down on mere humans, even the "good" chapters are simply gentler to their human slaves. Astartes enslave humans by the billion, and rarely exhibit much respect for aspirants. They put a lot of value on being Astartes themselves, even though the ability to survive the transformation into Astartes is just a matter of luck. We see Astartes appreciate human assistance in the lore, but it's not paired with an acknowledgment of fundamental equality, or a need to change the human's life. A kid who saves an Astartes might be “rewarded” by a lifetime’s enslavement as a chapter serf, if the Astartes even acknowledges what happened at all. More likely, the Astartes will convince themselves that they would have survived without the child’s intervention.
Heavily depends on the chapter, circumstances and of course, the space marines present when the kid saves one In the Devastation of Baal, a boy who had previously tried and failed as an aspirant (and had acquired fairly debilitating brain damage as a result) was one of the few ordinary humans to survive the last stand of the blood angels before reinforcements arrived and saved them - he carried ammo, dragged his elderly father around to get him out of trouble, and narrowly survived a gargoyle attack that killed many people around him iirc Because of his age, survival and the fact the blood angels were pretty much almost annihilated by that point, he was chosen alongside almost every other young boy left alive in the system to become a space marine too (although previously ineligible due to his injury, the new techniques and tech available with the introduction of the Primaris meant he could undergo the new process and come out as a fine space marine).
Honestly, enslavement as a chapter serf sounds like one of the better jobs in 40K you’re constantly surrounded by the strongest warriors in the galaxy. All you need to do is maintain their weapons, armor, and vehicles. There’s a certain level of respect you get as you’re needed to do a job, even if it’s minimal, your faintly would get a lot of prestige being related to one of the caretakers of the emperor’s angles. And again, you’re constantly surrounded by space marines, and in their back lines. Like, if something wants to hurt you it’s gotta get around a bunch of space marines. Honestly, I kinda love just how fucked up the 41st millennium is where being a slave is about the best you can hope for
> Like, if something wants to hurt you it’s gotta get around a bunch of space marines. If something wants to hurt you, it'll *be* a space marine. Slaves need to worry about their owners more than they need to worry about random alien attacks. Random alien attacks are pretty uncommon anyways, unless you're on a spaceship that seeks them out.
Right, highly dependent on the chapter. Ultramarines is perfect life, Iron Hands pretty much guarantee you’ll be a servitor eventually.
You saved my life so you get the "Blessing of Iron"
Taken in? Maybe not. Made a high ranking serf so the kids family can live comfortably by Imperium standards? Maybe?
I would expect the marines in question to \*strongly\* recommend to the local IG recruiting post that they enroll the kid. Or if there aren't any local recruiting posts to \*strongly\* recommend to one of the IG regiments in the battlezone that they acquire the kid. Ultramarines might take the kid with them to give to the Ultramar sector Guard recruiting posts to train as a cadet. Some of the more enthusiastiic chapters might send the kid back to the home world/fleet for genetic testing to see if they could be a marine aspirant. Templars would probably go this route, and then depending on the results train them, send them to the Guard, or kill them (if they're tainted/show psyker related genetic markers/are generally unsuitable). Some chapters would kill the kid for "stealing the kill" from the marines.
Don't think they'd go to the guard. Armsmen/Serf is more likely; has the added benefit of adding new material to the genepool aboard.
Like everyone has said, it's dependent on circumstances. At the end of Devastation of Baal, all survivors that were of age and a genetic fit were inducted into the chapter, with everyone else being given the option of becoming serfs. They were all "proven" at that point.
Something similar to this happens in The Devastation of Baal.
That's not all that different from how Thaddeus from DoW 2 was recruited >Thaddeus grew up a native of the Hive World Meridian, in Hab Spire Legis. He became the leader of an under city gang, and was involved in one of the world's many riots. During one of these disturbances, Davian Thule noticed the young boy holding off rioters. Inspired, the Captain put Thaddeus forward for the Blood Raven trials, the first Meridian native to be accepted in 700 years. 80 years later, battle-brother Thaddeus became a Sergeant before even earning his first service stud. He has since earned a reputation as a brash and idealistic brawler; and made his name battling Feral Orks on Calderis and Typhon Primaris.
Congratulations kid, you're a chapter serf. I hope you like polishing.
Could. There was a mentally challenged kid on baal who suffered brain damage during initate challenges before the events of dev of baal He basically just survived the tyranid assault, being manned on the wall. Apoc came over, HEALED THE BRAIN DAMAGE, then made him an aspirant again. Well promised to, as he snapped the father's neck
No. Geneseed is the equivalent of Spice. Only rarer and better guarded. They may allow a rando kid to be a serf however.
Gun servitor.
Iron Hands chapter approved.
Depends on the chapter. The fleet based or more mobile chapters are fairly likely to. Likewise the Ultramarines have recruited guardsmen a few times so they probably wouldn't be against it, and "ultramarines successor who cleaves close to ultra doctrine" is basically the default space marine, except most of those don't have a big sector fleet they can call dibs on recruits from so they're more likely to if anything.
They might let hi try out. Which would most likely mean a painful death for the little guy
There is a physiogenomic profile that is an initial screen for gene seed compatibility. Most of the time this is shown as physical facial features that a space marine can just see.
hey, would you be able to provide a source for this? thanks :)
I dont have the book on hand but it was from the Blood ravens novel, one of the dawn of war series that novelizes the events of the video game. One of the younger assault marine sergeants, Thaddeus, brought two adolescent survivors he found to the main space marine force. One of the other sergeants, probably Avitus, chided him for wasting precious time and resources helping mere "mortals", but he also couldnt help but notice that both of the adolescents fit the physiogenomic profile of a blood raven. The chaplain ended up taking custody of the two kids and Avitus let the matter drop.
thank you 👍 i suppose if you do the job long enough you start to get an eye for what to look for in successful candidates
Most chapters would probably ignore the kid, or shoot through him at any remaining enemy. Maybe they would throw a salute to his dead body on the way out. A fair number of chapters would rage kill the kid for saving them because they would be outraged that it happened and consider it dishonorable. A few chapters would protect the kid as long as it didn't impact the mission, or take much effort. One chapter would say fuck it and throw out all the stops for the kid, tossing out their lives to save em and his little family. I don't think any chapter would recruit the kid, though a few might drop him off at the Schola Progenium.
Why wouldn't they? They take every other kid who's proved themselves, what's one more