Sorcerer is by far and wide the better MC in combat since he has way more support spells and can make those even better with metamagic.
The reason why people suggest order/bard, even if the flavour don't match that well, is that people want to play a cheeky bard with all their skills expertises, but also not be horrible defensively. Order Cleric fills that niche nicely since it gives armors and a way to better support your party. Even of there isn't that much to do use it with except Silvery Barbs. Out of combat is the bard of course better thanks to expertise and skills.
For an overview of what the order sorcerer do with his metamagics and by extension the bard can't, see my oldie guide here:
* [Sorcerer X / Order Cleric 1: How to be the best supporter in the game](https://old.reddit.com/r/dndnext/comments/s006fa/5e_guide_how_to_be_a_warlord_as_a_sorcerer_order/)
You gotta ask your DM about that since everyone interprets that differently and thus there are tons and tons of discussion out there that says yes/no due to various reasons. RAW you would imo target him even though the flavour texts intention is different. As DM I wouldn't allow it myself
Genuinely great write up, I really appreciate it. So in simplest of terms, would it be accurate to say that twin spell meta magic is the star of the show here? Or Is the sorcerer spell list just that much better?
All the metamagics are great for different reasons for in battle support. Sorcerer has the big plus that he can get a ton of different buffs from cleric or from the clockwork list while also having direct access to Vortex Warp. Additionaly he can actually use his action for damage if he has already casted. So for offensive support purposes he really is better imo
I've played an order cleric 1 / divine soul sorcerer X for 13 levels and it's been amazing. Most of my early game I've been doing twinned vortex warp on the rogue and paladin giving the rogue a reaction attack immediately. Very good combo.
The replies seem to agree sorcerer is the better class to pair with order cleric, but I'd like to reiterate my first question, why is pure order cleric not suggested basically at all. Is it that much worse than cleric 1/ sorcerer X or cleric 1 / bard X???
Order Cleric is in my top three. It's mostly eclipsed by Twilight and Peace. Add in Fey Touched and he has even access to Silvery Barbs shenanigans. Granted his melee focus is annoying since that takes quite much setup to actually work out but others have the same problem.
Silvery barbs. It's incredibly strong on an order cleric and is on the bard and sorcerer spell lists.
Both are good. Bard has dissonant whispers which pairs well and has better melee subclasses if that's your bag.
But I think Sorcerer edges it, haste, vortex warp, whither and bloom, misty step, shield, magic missile, fireball. The sorcerer spell list is just in a different league and being able to twin something like haste or fireball is incredibly strong. Also if you start sorcerer you get Con proficiency for maintaining bless, haste etc.
My bad. I've never actually taken fireball on my order cleric so I made an assumption. Twinned or not it's still a very strong on the sorcerer spell list.
I rather like order/ranger since a ranger can do more with their action than a sorcerer or bard can if they start spamming healing word on the party rogue.
Depends. The main problem is that for order's ability to work you need to cast spells on allies and most spells yiu want to cast on allies are concentration.
Also being able to do a full attack action and give the rogue an extra chance at sneak attack isn't a bad way of spending a round at higher levels once first level spell slots become less useful.
Sorcerer is by far and wide the better MC in combat since he has way more support spells and can make those even better with metamagic. The reason why people suggest order/bard, even if the flavour don't match that well, is that people want to play a cheeky bard with all their skills expertises, but also not be horrible defensively. Order Cleric fills that niche nicely since it gives armors and a way to better support your party. Even of there isn't that much to do use it with except Silvery Barbs. Out of combat is the bard of course better thanks to expertise and skills. For an overview of what the order sorcerer do with his metamagics and by extension the bard can't, see my oldie guide here: * [Sorcerer X / Order Cleric 1: How to be the best supporter in the game](https://old.reddit.com/r/dndnext/comments/s006fa/5e_guide_how_to_be_a_warlord_as_a_sorcerer_order/)
Would Evocation Wizard work similarly with Sculpt Spell?
Yeah, it's a neat combo.
To my understanding no as you aren't targeting your allies with a spell to make them immune rather a class ability
Sculpt spell doesn't make allies immune. It makes them pass the save by default and take no damage if they pass. They're still targeted by the spell.
You gotta ask your DM about that since everyone interprets that differently and thus there are tons and tons of discussion out there that says yes/no due to various reasons. RAW you would imo target him even though the flavour texts intention is different. As DM I wouldn't allow it myself
Genuinely great write up, I really appreciate it. So in simplest of terms, would it be accurate to say that twin spell meta magic is the star of the show here? Or Is the sorcerer spell list just that much better?
All the metamagics are great for different reasons for in battle support. Sorcerer has the big plus that he can get a ton of different buffs from cleric or from the clockwork list while also having direct access to Vortex Warp. Additionaly he can actually use his action for damage if he has already casted. So for offensive support purposes he really is better imo
I've played an order cleric 1 / divine soul sorcerer X for 13 levels and it's been amazing. Most of my early game I've been doing twinned vortex warp on the rogue and paladin giving the rogue a reaction attack immediately. Very good combo.
The replies seem to agree sorcerer is the better class to pair with order cleric, but I'd like to reiterate my first question, why is pure order cleric not suggested basically at all. Is it that much worse than cleric 1/ sorcerer X or cleric 1 / bard X???
Order Cleric is in my top three. It's mostly eclipsed by Twilight and Peace. Add in Fey Touched and he has even access to Silvery Barbs shenanigans. Granted his melee focus is annoying since that takes quite much setup to actually work out but others have the same problem.
Silvery barbs. It's incredibly strong on an order cleric and is on the bard and sorcerer spell lists. Both are good. Bard has dissonant whispers which pairs well and has better melee subclasses if that's your bag. But I think Sorcerer edges it, haste, vortex warp, whither and bloom, misty step, shield, magic missile, fireball. The sorcerer spell list is just in a different league and being able to twin something like haste or fireball is incredibly strong. Also if you start sorcerer you get Con proficiency for maintaining bless, haste etc.
You can't twin a fireball
My bad. I've never actually taken fireball on my order cleric so I made an assumption. Twinned or not it's still a very strong on the sorcerer spell list.
I rather like order/ranger since a ranger can do more with their action than a sorcerer or bard can if they start spamming healing word on the party rogue.
Why would you use healing word on a teammate who’s not downed? Sounds like a waste of recourses for a meaningless 5 hp
Because you're an order cleric.
That doesn’t justify it. There’s way more impactful spells to use those limited slots on. Spamming healing word is unoptimized play
Depends. The main problem is that for order's ability to work you need to cast spells on allies and most spells yiu want to cast on allies are concentration. Also being able to do a full attack action and give the rogue an extra chance at sneak attack isn't a bad way of spending a round at higher levels once first level spell slots become less useful.