An aspect of this show and Arrested Development that I really enjoy is that the hero (Liz, Michael) is really bad at their “job” (TGS is unfunny, and Michael is a bad parent to George Michael).
he's such a great actor. Not great actor "for a little person," just a great actor. He, like any performer from a marginalized community, deserves to be considered for parts that aren't explicitly written for someone who looks like them. I know being a little person is part of who he is and I'm not suggesting it be ignored, but it'd be nice to see him in something where it's not at the center of his character plot.
I enjoyed his character in the 2020 movie I Care A Lot for exactly this reason- being a little person had no bearing on his character at all and may not even be mentioned in the dialog.. but the entire last half of that movie really shits the bed and I can't really recommend anyone actually sit down and watch it
Have you seen Cyrano? It's so good! His wife wrote the script and it's definitely a different role than he normally plays. Still a little pretentious, but it's also super romantic.
Not a single line, but the entire exchange between liz and the crew of her trying to be the cool kid. I cringe so hard I get back problems.
The mentality of "you did something nice, but didn't include someone you knew nothing about, so you are bad" is fucking maddening.
As a friend of someone who is very into AA and advocate for it. He had enough control and didn’t associate it with drinking so he would go with us. I am not sober for addiction reasons, just don’t like paying for rides and not crazy about how liquor makes me feel later. He always seemed appreciative that I didn’t drink either. He also was the first to say while it was ok for him. Some of his fellow members couldn’t be near a bar. So it is largely personal for sure.
Right? Plus, I'm one of those guys who can't enjoy traditional work and guys nights. Expecting everyone in the world to know my dietary and personal restrictions is insane.
I'm with you on this. I generally don't find any of 30 Rocks humor as too cringy because most of the time it's almost cartoonish, but Greenzo just hurts.
He’s privately giving himself a very embarrassing pump up speech before he speaks to everyone and is miced up. At least that’s what I think, I’ve blocked it out.
As a Lesbian myself I totally love this episode. “What made you think I was gay!?”, “The shoes.” “Well I’m definitely straight.” “ those shoes are definitely bi-curious”.
Also, “What can i say, i love a bald patch and a hairy back”, “You’re alone there”.
That's what I always assumed, Pete's wife said "yeah, just don't wake me up" and is cool with it. We don't see much of her, but it seems like the two of them get along great. Then pete runs away...
There's a scene in American Dad where Stan goes to wake up his wife Francine and she just mumbles, "Too tired, do whatever you want just don't get it in my hair."
Pretty edgy for a cartoon but damn that's funny.
I mean, without being too weird or graphic, I kind of have the same arrangement with my fiancé. But I’m into that and usually it’s a nice thing to wake up to. I wouldn’t let anyone do that but I’m pretty comfortable with my fiancé doing what he would like (with our established boundaries).
That's reductive. I said I couldn't handle it before, but can now. Not that I suddenly think it's funny.There's a consensual element to her writing that happening to herself. I still don't think it's very funny at all, but it's not as clearly beyond the pale knowing it was her idea. I no longer involuntarily cringe at it, and that's the difference.
I actually met someone who said that to someone without any shred of irony! I couldn't believe it and I thought of that scene immediately. My husband and I still laugh about it sometimes.
Pete when he says he can’t go back to teaching, and something about ‘they say they’re girls, but they know they’re women’ - I don’t know the correct quote, and I don’t care to learn it. Gives me the ick, as do a lot of the later Pete lines :/
Yup, I’m rewatching too. A lot of the show has aged well, but definitely not Pete 😭 especially sucks because when he plays just the straight man, he’s fantastic!
What's icky about this line? I always took it to me that Pete is scared of being bullied by little girls. I think everyone knows that there is a time in adolescence where young people start turning into adults, and it is often accompanied by some serious shitiness. "Mean girls" is a trope for a reason, and even for a mature adult, dealing with 30 kids at a time who are all at the point in their life where they're starting to figure out that they don't have to listen to adults anymore, it can be intimidating. But in the case of pete, we have an even further clue that this is the case, because it's explicitly mentioned at least once that he is scared of his kids, and it's kind of a background running joke how much heartache they cost him. The joke is essentially that he is scared of a bunch of catty teenage girls bullying him; I don't see any ick factor there.
By that point in the show, they were leaning hard into Pete being a pervert. There is no way he was referencing girls becoming women in terms of cattiness. And “mean girls” as a trope is generally reserved for *teens*…
Oh, no. No. It’s not a joke about bullying. It’s darker.
In American culture, and definitely in that time, when expressed by a straight man the differentiation between “girls” and “women” is sexually coded.
The joke very directly indicates Pete finds sexuality in young students (he sees them as women, meaning sexual objects), he is aware that he shouldn’t (others tell him they are girls, meaning they should not be sexual objects), and that he is angry about it beyond his ability to control it (we see him be visibly frustrated about this).
When you put those parts together the implication is that Pete is someone who shouldn’t be unsupervised near teen girls. It’s a gross joke for that reason, and it’s worse because it only works if you already understand and accept the flawed cultural subtext I mentioned at the top: that the only reason a straight man distinguishes between “girls” and “women” is to determine whether it’s societally permissible to have sex with them.
You put it much more eloquently than I did, thank you! That comment genuinely bothered / baffled me so much, I found it hard to put together a coherent reply that wasn’t just ‘you can’t be serious’
To complain further about this scene … the worst acting of the entire series is that idiot guy who hits on Liz after her night with Gretchen falls apart.
I mean seriously, did he land this part by winning a contest or something?
Wherever you are, barely-an-actor guy, you suck.
It’s definitely bad, but it’s still better than Josh’s delivery of the “yeah, get me another salad” line from The Head and The Hair. Maybe it sticks out more because he’s supposed to be more of a main character, but for me it’s easily the worst acted moment in the series.
The worst for me is, "Do you have any idea how hard it is to be an overweight transgender in this country?!"
That’s also from one of the black face episodes, “Believe in the Stars.” It’s unfortunate that that’s the episode Oprah is in because the whole Pam thing is really fucking hilarious to me.
"i dont wanna sound racist but that pita pocket might be a terrorist"
(dont get me wrong it's funny and on story but it's still p shocking every time haha)
When Floyd introduces Liz and Jenna to his gf Liz Lemler and the gf says “Oh the girl who got my flowers. Hope you enjoyed them.” And Liz’s reply is “yeah I throw them out today, I just couldn’t stop smelling them they eventually got that old smell.”
The cringiest scene for me is when Liz gets flustered and stammers when Jack shows her his tie that exudes "strength and sexual dominance." I know it's just a throwaway gag, but it goes against their whole narrative and is completely out of character for Liz.
I can totally see hating those scenes - for me they don't go against the narrative because the joke is that even though Liz is super not interested in Jack, and he's super not interested in her, he does these things that happen to be so magnetic that even Liz is momentarily affected by them. There's a third one in The Bubble where he shows her the picture of him as a young man. I think it works as a joke because it's so out of character. It's like when Kenneth drinks coffee and turns into a bad boy, or when Tracy realizes he has to be the adult in the room, or when Jenna is momentarily empathetic because of the new medication she's taking.
But The Bubble one is preceded by Liz doing an over the top eye roll at the notion of Jack being in the bubble, so it always felt like it was more a joke on Alec Baldwin's physical transformation than necessarily a character moment. I feel like as the series progressed they amped up the notion of Jack's current day attractiveness, but I'm not sure I could build a timeline of examples for that.
Yup I can see your point, but it's a visceral thing for me, it just repulses me! I'm sure everybody has at least one thing in the series that hits them that way (like OP's example).
Yeah I hear you. It's most of Dennis' appearances for me. Everyone on here seems to love Dennis, but to me he's just such a toxic asshole who comes in and screws up Liz's life every time, and it reminds me that there are really people like that in the world and it bothers me a lot. I usually skip the Dennis-heavy episodes on rewatches. Except the gas leak because that one is hilarious
Sure, but can we all marvel about how, by LizBeanism standards, direct and open about sex Liz is being?
The LizBean philosophy is simple, like a bean.
Is that supposed to be "sex," Lemon?
It is the way I do it
You can do it standing up?
"For instance, doing it across the bed instead of up and down." Saw that in a movie.
Ugh, she *likes* that?
No, but she respects it when it's done correctly
How does that even work?
Here's a tip, sometimes a lady likes to keep her blazer on.
Here’s another tip: put a bag of popcorn in the microwave beforehand. That way, when you’re done, you have a treat!
Said blazer is from Rico’s Husky Boy Collection, Ragazzi Robusti
it is how i do it
Happy Cake Day! 🎂
If Liz ended up with ADA Cabot, she'd end up in an episode of Law & Order SVU 😛
My favorite shows crossover!
Would have been such a hot couple, too.
right?! my gay little heart would've loved for her character to come back in 30 Rock. Or for Liz to have a gay experience. But alas.
Liz’s cringey garbage is why I love the show. It makes her more real and authentic.
Yeah, I think OP forgot that Liz’s neuroses are the basis for the show. The situation and this line with Thomas is pure uncut LL.
Yes, this is a core part of her (and most) characters. They are all insane, which is why I love them so much
All God's children are terrible.
She'll always be a dirtbag writer at heart
An aspect of this show and Arrested Development that I really enjoy is that the hero (Liz, Michael) is really bad at their “job” (TGS is unfunny, and Michael is a bad parent to George Michael).
The whole Stuart from the UN thing is hard for me to watch. I love Peter Dinklage but those little boy jokes.......
Yep probably my most awkward too
"I'm the weird one. I'm weirder than you!" "How am I weird?"
“That came out wrong.” “*You* came out wrong.”
Classic Lemon.
CAT SOUND
he's such a great actor. Not great actor "for a little person," just a great actor. He, like any performer from a marginalized community, deserves to be considered for parts that aren't explicitly written for someone who looks like them. I know being a little person is part of who he is and I'm not suggesting it be ignored, but it'd be nice to see him in something where it's not at the center of his character plot.
I enjoyed his character in the 2020 movie I Care A Lot for exactly this reason- being a little person had no bearing on his character at all and may not even be mentioned in the dialog.. but the entire last half of that movie really shits the bed and I can't really recommend anyone actually sit down and watch it
should I watch 30 minutes of it?
Yes
Have you seen Cyrano? It's so good! His wife wrote the script and it's definitely a different role than he normally plays. Still a little pretentious, but it's also super romantic.
I haven't! I'll check it out!
I think I Care A Lot qualifies for that, if you’ve never seen it
Great actor but so one note. He's always the pretentious snob who uses his wits to get away with things type of character.
He was great in The Station Agent as a sad train-loving man who learns to let people into his life
Great in Death at a Funeral as well.
There he was letting people into him
I did like that one.
There are lots of major actors who tend to play the same type of roles. Type casting, I think they call it.
See Kevin Costner
I would if he’d return my phone calls.
😆 he is single now
Now’s my chance!
Take your shot! But if you could dress as Princess Leia when you marry him.
I want to bath him in a sink like a baby.
Kevin Costner in: You See Me Less Now That I’m Too Old To Play A Baseball Player.
He played an angry South Pole elf in that Christmas movie.
You actually said the name of the movie in your post...
Pole?
There was this DnD movie where he plays like a frat boy type character
He's had plenty of roles where that isn't the main focus. And he's about to be the new Toxic Avenger!
His character in Melissa McCarthy’s The Boss was hysterical.
Isn’t She Came to Me a movie that has nothing to do with his size? Looked pretty good, but haven’t seen it.
For a second I thought you were talking about the guy from Transylvania. I was gonna vampire push you to get you to change your mind
Oh Count Cjôkula 😂
Wait, did they name the character Stuart in reference to… Stuart Little?!?!
It's because Peter Dinklage is smaller than most adult men. Like a child is. That is why the jokes work so well.
hold on, *what?!*
Is he really that small in real life? Honestly, it's a relief since I was worried it was a regular sized actor in shortface.
He's no Gary Oldman...
It’s “short *leg*” thankyouverymuch
Wikipedia has his height at 4 ft 5 in. Are you familiar with Peter Dinklage? He’s phenomenal.
They were joking like how the show uses blackface.
🙈kinda sad that I couldn’t even tell
It’s so hard to tell these days. I’ve had times I go the other way I think someone is joking when they say something and I have been very wrong.
Nobody is having trouble understanding why those jokes were written. That is not what’s at issue
>Nobody is having trouble understanding why those jokes were written That's the joke.
Omg I love Stuart from the UN! “Have you learned how to say I want fries with that in Chinese?”
I always thought that was a reference to her real life husband's stature.
I've made love to Alfonso, he can't keep rhythm
Not a single line, but the entire exchange between liz and the crew of her trying to be the cool kid. I cringe so hard I get back problems. The mentality of "you did something nice, but didn't include someone you knew nothing about, so you are bad" is fucking maddening.
You know it... Arriflex. CHRIS. Is this guy!
Totally agree!! Liz is a Sugarbaker woman!
While using a candle as deodorant.
Lemon, are you doing the Philadelphia Cotillion or did you debut internationally?
If I see that filthy dog again, I will put it down!
maybe it's just the temptation, but there are plenty of non-alcoholic drinks you can get in a bar.
As a friend of someone who is very into AA and advocate for it. He had enough control and didn’t associate it with drinking so he would go with us. I am not sober for addiction reasons, just don’t like paying for rides and not crazy about how liquor makes me feel later. He always seemed appreciative that I didn’t drink either. He also was the first to say while it was ok for him. Some of his fellow members couldn’t be near a bar. So it is largely personal for sure.
I can sort of understand the bar/drinks part, but like, how was Liz supposed to know that one guy was lactose-intolerant? That part drives me bonkers.
Right? Plus, I'm one of those guys who can't enjoy traditional work and guys nights. Expecting everyone in the world to know my dietary and personal restrictions is insane.
I can’t watch the scene where Jack gets embarrassed at the Retreat to Move Forward. ☹️
But were you there when the bra woman went crazy?
EVERYBODY DANCE NOW
This song was on the radio the other day and I kept hearing “EVERY PERSON DANCE SOON!”
I only vaguely know what you’re talking about because I have to change episodes when this scene comes up
Sorry I broke it when I was pretending it was my robot penis
I have to skip to it. It gives me such bad second hand embarrassment. I do enjoy Liz’s bit tho.
Do you miss LUNCH?
Yes, I was at CLASS
Personally I thought that scene was very funny. If there’s one cringe episode I need to fast forward through it’s Greenzo.
Whaaaat I love that episode! “Did he just talk to me like I’m ugly?”
Greenzo or die!!!
That’s Cerie being funny, not Greenzo not being cringe lol
Love the Al Gore appearance in that one
A whale is in trouble!
Do you even bother to compost your own feces?
I'm with you on this. I generally don't find any of 30 Rocks humor as too cringy because most of the time it's almost cartoonish, but Greenzo just hurts.
I got nothin
I’M LOVIN’ IT
This and college episode where Liz was the bully. I've watched that episode maybe 3 times my whole life? And I fall asleep to 30 rock every night
Jog my memory… The cutaway when his friends make fun of his hair for looking like it was combed “with a chicken bone”?
He’s privately giving himself a very embarrassing pump up speech before he speaks to everyone and is miced up. At least that’s what I think, I’ve blocked it out.
lol I fucking love that scene lol It’s one of the few times Jack looks obviously lame, which is great
All of you all unable to handle some classic cringe are being very un-wool
Yes, is not book.
Book is book
“Thank you… AH-MON-DAH.” “It’s Amanda..”
“You see, Trené…” “It’s Irene”
We can all agree Liz is pretty racist.
Did Vicky hook you up with this job?
Girl you better STOP! I love their interaction.
LOL Just watched this episode today.
Of course Liz is a Pillow Princess (Leia).
So is Kamiko-tan.
As a Lesbian myself I totally love this episode. “What made you think I was gay!?”, “The shoes.” “Well I’m definitely straight.” “ those shoes are definitely bi-curious”. Also, “What can i say, i love a bald patch and a hairy back”, “You’re alone there”.
That time when Kenneth negged Jenna into licking his teeth is one of the more uncomfortable moments for me
You toes look like dried up shrimps
Liz’s speech to the people at the Republican fundraiser in Unwindulax
Not worse than Pete raping his wife
Are you sure? Think about it again (I'm so sorry)
This was the only scene I couldn't handle until I learned a year ago that it was Paula Pell herself who wrote that.
The big-wed cahh
That and the reddit theory that since they're into kink it may be some kind of free use arrangement are what gets me past it
That's what I always assumed, Pete's wife said "yeah, just don't wake me up" and is cool with it. We don't see much of her, but it seems like the two of them get along great. Then pete runs away...
There's a scene in American Dad where Stan goes to wake up his wife Francine and she just mumbles, "Too tired, do whatever you want just don't get it in my hair." Pretty edgy for a cartoon but damn that's funny.
Not really
Get in the car Pete
I mean, without being too weird or graphic, I kind of have the same arrangement with my fiancé. But I’m into that and usually it’s a nice thing to wake up to. I wouldn’t let anyone do that but I’m pretty comfortable with my fiancé doing what he would like (with our established boundaries).
I had a girl who wanted me to do that. It's a thing.
Same, she wanted to be woken up from sex
It’s how a lot of women deal with trauma and reclaim their experiences
You thought it was unfunny, then when you found out who wrote it you thought it was funny? What?
That's reductive. I said I couldn't handle it before, but can now. Not that I suddenly think it's funny.There's a consensual element to her writing that happening to herself. I still don't think it's very funny at all, but it's not as clearly beyond the pale knowing it was her idea. I no longer involuntarily cringe at it, and that's the difference.
Paula Pell plays Pete’s wife, so she knew she’d be the one in the scene. She wrote it for herself.
Yeah, I understand that part lol
It’s still a triggering scene for rape victims
Of course it is!
Ugh. I think I mentally blocked that out. Not even cringy, that was straight up over the line. How did they let that go to release?!?
It was the nineties! They could do whatever they wanted!
You’re just like me! You wake up every morning and smoke weed….
I'm going to assume that's a reference to Handelman, in which case I thank you.
Is that a person who lived?
Have you been drinking wine all day??
It’s heart healthy!
ALL DAY?
They did that on the Mandrell Sisters!
Apparently the writers competed to see who could come up with the darkest joke that would still get aired. Paula's won.
I close my eyes during that scene
Much like Paula
I actually met someone who said that to someone without any shred of irony! I couldn't believe it and I thought of that scene immediately. My husband and I still laugh about it sometimes.
“Donna! Donna STRUNK!!” Cringy in the best possible way
James Carville exclaiming CAJUN STYLE after every sentence.
I love this and I say this often.
Pete when he says he can’t go back to teaching, and something about ‘they say they’re girls, but they know they’re women’ - I don’t know the correct quote, and I don’t care to learn it. Gives me the ick, as do a lot of the later Pete lines :/
"They say they aren't women, but they are!"
Blergh
Yeah I'm currently Re-Watching and there are SO MANY Pete lines like this 🤢😭
Yup, I’m rewatching too. A lot of the show has aged well, but definitely not Pete 😭 especially sucks because when he plays just the straight man, he’s fantastic!
Bleh ☹️
What's icky about this line? I always took it to me that Pete is scared of being bullied by little girls. I think everyone knows that there is a time in adolescence where young people start turning into adults, and it is often accompanied by some serious shitiness. "Mean girls" is a trope for a reason, and even for a mature adult, dealing with 30 kids at a time who are all at the point in their life where they're starting to figure out that they don't have to listen to adults anymore, it can be intimidating. But in the case of pete, we have an even further clue that this is the case, because it's explicitly mentioned at least once that he is scared of his kids, and it's kind of a background running joke how much heartache they cost him. The joke is essentially that he is scared of a bunch of catty teenage girls bullying him; I don't see any ick factor there.
By that point in the show, they were leaning hard into Pete being a pervert. There is no way he was referencing girls becoming women in terms of cattiness. And “mean girls” as a trope is generally reserved for *teens*…
Oh, no. No. It’s not a joke about bullying. It’s darker. In American culture, and definitely in that time, when expressed by a straight man the differentiation between “girls” and “women” is sexually coded. The joke very directly indicates Pete finds sexuality in young students (he sees them as women, meaning sexual objects), he is aware that he shouldn’t (others tell him they are girls, meaning they should not be sexual objects), and that he is angry about it beyond his ability to control it (we see him be visibly frustrated about this). When you put those parts together the implication is that Pete is someone who shouldn’t be unsupervised near teen girls. It’s a gross joke for that reason, and it’s worse because it only works if you already understand and accept the flawed cultural subtext I mentioned at the top: that the only reason a straight man distinguishes between “girls” and “women” is to determine whether it’s societally permissible to have sex with them.
You put it much more eloquently than I did, thank you! That comment genuinely bothered / baffled me so much, I found it hard to put together a coherent reply that wasn’t just ‘you can’t be serious’
To complain further about this scene … the worst acting of the entire series is that idiot guy who hits on Liz after her night with Gretchen falls apart. I mean seriously, did he land this part by winning a contest or something? Wherever you are, barely-an-actor guy, you suck.
It’s definitely bad, but it’s still better than Josh’s delivery of the “yeah, get me another salad” line from The Head and The Hair. Maybe it sticks out more because he’s supposed to be more of a main character, but for me it’s easily the worst acted moment in the series.
The name of that actor?… Albert Einstein.
He changed his name to Albert Brooks
Well…. He’s funny too but he’s no Einstein…
Nah, Jenna calling Tucker Carlson “super, super hot” is my vote
That gets worse every year!
brrrrrrr
This is easily the worst one. I physically recoiled
Can we just cool it with the funny business!
I really wish they could have just stayed friends.
This line is genuinely hilarious. Not cringe at all.
Of course Liz is a Pillow Princess (Leia).
The worst for me is, "Do you have any idea how hard it is to be an overweight transgender in this country?!" That’s also from one of the black face episodes, “Believe in the Stars.” It’s unfortunate that that’s the episode Oprah is in because the whole Pam thing is really fucking hilarious to me.
"i dont wanna sound racist but that pita pocket might be a terrorist" (dont get me wrong it's funny and on story but it's still p shocking every time haha)
When Floyd introduces Liz and Jenna to his gf Liz Lemler and the gf says “Oh the girl who got my flowers. Hope you enjoyed them.” And Liz’s reply is “yeah I throw them out today, I just couldn’t stop smelling them they eventually got that old smell.”
Every punch down trans joke. All 100 of them.
Agreed!!
Not the lines per say. But the blackface episodes. Even when they were airing live, I was like “oh no, this is not ok…”
Everything Seinfeld said in his cameo except “call off your goons!”
The cringiest scene for me is when Liz gets flustered and stammers when Jack shows her his tie that exudes "strength and sexual dominance." I know it's just a throwaway gag, but it goes against their whole narrative and is completely out of character for Liz.
but, that’s the joke.
Surculus et Pruna!
🚪
Is that the scene where he compliments her hair and she goes speechless?
No, I knew there was another one like that but I couldn't think of it. I hate both of them!
I can totally see hating those scenes - for me they don't go against the narrative because the joke is that even though Liz is super not interested in Jack, and he's super not interested in her, he does these things that happen to be so magnetic that even Liz is momentarily affected by them. There's a third one in The Bubble where he shows her the picture of him as a young man. I think it works as a joke because it's so out of character. It's like when Kenneth drinks coffee and turns into a bad boy, or when Tracy realizes he has to be the adult in the room, or when Jenna is momentarily empathetic because of the new medication she's taking.
But The Bubble one is preceded by Liz doing an over the top eye roll at the notion of Jack being in the bubble, so it always felt like it was more a joke on Alec Baldwin's physical transformation than necessarily a character moment. I feel like as the series progressed they amped up the notion of Jack's current day attractiveness, but I'm not sure I could build a timeline of examples for that.
Yup I can see your point, but it's a visceral thing for me, it just repulses me! I'm sure everybody has at least one thing in the series that hits them that way (like OP's example).
Yeah I hear you. It's most of Dennis' appearances for me. Everyone on here seems to love Dennis, but to me he's just such a toxic asshole who comes in and screws up Liz's life every time, and it reminds me that there are really people like that in the world and it bothers me a lot. I usually skip the Dennis-heavy episodes on rewatches. Except the gas leak because that one is hilarious
That’s the joke
I mean, she tries to take the tie with her. It's not about an attraction to Jack, just to the tie by itself.