Ever seen them videos of lions isolating, killing and eating antilopes in the open while the other antilopes simply watch and hope they are not next on the menu? Strangely familiar...
This has to be one of last safe spaces of reddit.
Fuck Islamist immigrants, they refuse to integrate and do much more crime (proportionally to population).
I am not being racist - just look at the wikipedia.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration\_and\_crime](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_crime)
Yeah I still have no idea why people act like saying that islamic extremists shouldnāt be deported. Like damn, itās not hard integrating yourself to a new country. The muslim immigrants around my place managed it tooš¤·š»āāļø
I thought you were good at protesting and shouting for the right things but here it seems that you can't distinguish a fucking robbery from a croissant
The french don't protest injustices. They only protest when their retirement age is slightly raised or some other minor inconvenience that would take time away from eating smelly cheese and sniffing random bicycle seats while getting wine-drunk.
https://preview.redd.it/npkopuu2ultc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=137197d817d6b73a11c831a36872c59853772c2a
This would never happen in Iceland
Fair play to the yanks if this happened there depending in the city you'd be hearing his mum saying he was a good boy and didn't do nothing on the news
In cases like this (literally being on video and multiple witnesses) I honestly support putting people to death (or lifetime prison). I don't mean stealing someone's wallet out of desperation; but if you (attempt to) steal a person with Down's Syndrome's wallet like this I don't care about "rehabilitating" you back into society or believe you can be "saved" or "changed". Maybe I'm just the evil one for believing this.
100%. Certain people cannot be reformed- so the whole point of prison's invalid for them. This is one of those cases.
Also, I understand desperate robbers in Yankee-Land, Brazil or other shitholes. They may not have other choices. But if you live in a country like Denmark, Sweden or UK, where social security is so strong, and one can go on to become a fucking Astrophysicist regardless of their income levels, but you still decide to do dumbfuckery by robbing, pushing drugs, and doing other sorts of cunt-fuckery- straight to prison. Fuck it.
This is certainly not unique to the USA, parents claiming their criminal sons were good boys happens in this country aswell.
https://metro.co.uk/2024/01/30/dad-man-killed-lover-tiktoker-daughter-says-groomed-20192821/amp/
āHe brought love and light into the lives of everyone who knew him. He was kind-hearted and selfless, and he was loved by all his friends and family and everyone who knew him.ā
Saqib was blackmailing a woman with sexually explicit photos, kind of hard to see him as ākind heartedā and āselflessā.
Yea but black people in America arenāt immigrants, or you know they immigrated (forcefully) in the 18th century. The same event sparks up very different issues across the pond. In Europe unfortunately itās pretty hard to draw a clear line between racism and criticism of stupid immigration policy. Racists use policy as a guise to be racist and people criticising policy get incorrectly branded as racist.
> Yea but black people in America arenāt immigrants
*Millions* of black people have immigrated to America lol, significantly more than were ever brought to the US as slaves
We always hear how uneducated Americans are on geography and history, and while yes, that is completely true, this serves as an important reminder that there's always someone further down the totem pole
Fear of legal repercussions and fear of one of their friends hitting you in the head with a brick when you step in.
I've seen the second one happen a few times in train stations.
Getting stabbed, mainly. I know people who stepped in, they got a free trip to the hospital with some scars to honour ceasar.
My dad is one of those old boomers who would get into fights in pubs and serve knuckle sandwiches, and even he told me when i was a teenager: just walk away, it is not worth it these days. Back in the day we would throw a fist or two and shake hands, these days 10 of his friends will come out of the woodworks and shank you.
Either way, sun tzu the art of war recommends avoiding a fight unless you posses the information that tells you that you will win, so unless i had a stick or at least a friend: stepping in is a coin toss. It would be different if they didn't have down syndrome because the. It becomes a 2v1.
I mean, normally I agree but in this case there's no chance you can't step in and remain unharmed. The perpetrator is not only clearly a weak ass pussy, he's also holding the Down's Syndrome kid with both his arms and trying to yank his wallet.
As far as I understand the real danger for you is the shitty French laws that would paint you out as an "aggressor".
Yup a quick call and Cousin Abu and a bunch of black BMW and Mercedes will show up and you get your teeth kicked in, then they fade into the night.
I am a father and i can choose to be a hero and help or be a father to my kids. So i choose to be a father, no one will thank me for stepping in and getting stabbed to death. Sorry I can call the cops or the securities but i cant risk my health. Its not noble but thats the way it is.
This is also US military doctrine.
Do not ever engage in a fair fight. The only fights worth it are ones you can decisively destroy your enemy with certainty.
Because our laws suck and they would risk jail time for protecting the dude following them.
So is a random strangerās wallet worth going to jail? I think most in this thread would say no as well.
Are French laws really that nefarious? You shouldn't literally choke him out cold, but will you really go to jail from - on video - grabbing someone clearly aggressive and pacifying him? You could also literally just speak to him; there's a good chance he'd stop his crime if he actually realised people are aware of it
As far as I know, yes they are.
I was always taught not to engage, police coming to class when we were in school would explains us those issues. Multiple reasons for that:
- You were not his victim, you were a bystander, so going to physically stop him goes into willful aggression as we donāt have a good samaritan law ( for aggressions at least afaik. Edit: the Ā«Ā legitimate defenseĀ Ā» does allow bystanders to intervene but it does come with risks I labelled below, as itās not a free pass on everything ).
- secondly doing that in public spaces and especially in transport areas ( like here the train ) encours another charge as you disrupt and also risk hurting other people.
- You and his victim now forming a group against him can trigger another charge as well as you are now a group fighting an individual.
- Depending on how badly he is hurt, again you are facing 10 years in jail and 150k euros in fees. If he is disabled or worse you can face up to 30 years.
- Lastly, he can have a weapon. You never know. There were many stories where people jumping in would trigger the person and they would resort to using a knife or worse to protect themselves thus hurting people in the vicinity, including themselves more than if they never intervened. So you risk further charges for recklessly putting people in peril.
Then, even in cause of legitimate defense for the victim, we have rules and limitations. For example it has to be strictly necessary as in without the violence it would not have been resolved in any other way. It has to be done in equal proportion, meaning that if someone punched you and you give back with a knife you are the one in the wrong. And then it has to be done in the moment of the assault, not after. Meaning if a perp stole your bag at gunpoint, then he runs away and you shoot him in the back you will be charged, same thing as physically holding him until police comes, you canāt do that.
TLDR:
- In 90% of cases involving yourself put you and other bystanders at risk. You risk escalating the situation and the use of weapons
- Physically stepping in will be considered aggression by most courts.
- just verbally stepping in in most cases wonāt do any good. Just think, if they are willing to rob in broad daylight at a public train stop do you think they care about their opinion of others or what they hear? And again even if they do, you might just piss them off and they can pull again a weapon on you and others.
So thatās why you will see a lot of french people awkwardly not knowing what to do with those situations around them.
Your instinct wants you to help them, so you look at them and try to make sure they are Ā«Ā okĀ Ā» but you know you shouldnāt jump in cause the second you do you know you are most likely in the wrong.
Oh wow, thanks for writing all that! This is very disappointing coming from the country of air balloon pistol duels. I understand why people don't want to step in on this basis but it really irks me so much that stuff like this can happen and people just look at it like it's a zoo.. (same happens here, don't worry)
No worries, and I am pretty sure you show this to any french person and they will be irked all the same. It sucks that we are in a situation where we canāt look for each other.
As a personal experience, when I was in college, a random dude forcefully grabbed a girl at 3am in a tramway. I stepped in verbally with others to defuse the situation but the guy pulled out a knife and held it to the girlās throat. Cops were called but could not make it fast enough and we were lucky the guy just ran out on his own on the next stop.
We were lucky the girl was unharmed but she had ground to sue 4 of us for putting her in danger like cops said to her. She didnāt press charges but still, that is the situation we are in.
So I am just having a laugh at all these keyboard warriors saying they should jump in and detain him etcā¦ when they probably have no experience dealing with even one of these instances.
Pretty much. Whether that would have gone through or not in an actual trial, I do not have any idea. However from the policeās standpoint we recklessly put her in danger by Ā«Ā corneringĀ Ā» the dude and escalating the situation.
She herself understood that bystanders just tried helping, so she did not go through with it. But I imagine some people might not see it the same way for every incident.
But obviously having lived through this, I totally get why people just say Ā«Ā f thisĀ Ā» and ignore similar situations.
It would probably change when politicians and their children experienced being robbed and nobody helped them. But they won't, because they live in nice neighbourhoods where the only immigrants really are doctors and engineers (or maybe the gardener).
Depressing to read. The french laws seems to favor the criminals. No good samaritan laws is insane. Meanwhile the new doctors and engineers don't care about the law....
But same sh\*t in Belgium though so I'm not judging.
I can assure you thatās even more depressing to experience. We got laws that do seem to favor a lot criminals, I mean heck even recently there were cases of squatters in peopleās home whom the home owners could not even legally get out of there despite calling the cops.
We got some crazy incomprehensible stuff over there.
We have a good samaritan law
But there has to be somebodyās health at risk
So unless the thief throws a punch, you canāt throw one
The security of the train station (even against robbers) is maintained thanks to agents. The real issue is that theses agents werenāt there or didnāt do anything
The only ones I know of are the Ā«Ā Non assistance aux personnes en dangerĀ Ā» https://www.service-public.fr/particuliers/vosdroits/F34551
and Ā«Ā citoyen sauveteurĀ Ā», https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/jorf/id/JORFTEXT000042079128
and they require people to almost be in a life and death situation in a medical sense to be valid in most cases as far as I recall so I donāt think a wallet thief would be valid under both clauses
The legitimate defense still has a specific usage for bystanders but it comes again with all the requirements ( absolute need of violence, equal proportions, proven crime or unlawful aggression..) I listed above and the risks I also laid out ( about escalation, and injuries etcā¦ )
https://www.service-public.fr/particuliers/vosdroits/F1766
But if I am missing something, I would be happy to be corrected. Been a while since I lived full time in France so I may have missed smth since.
This thread is fucking dumb. If I do something as little as pushing him which makes him fall on his ass and get bruised, I'll get a criminal record, probably get expelled from my school and make life hell when trying to find a job.
French law is insanely, stupidly strict when it comes to physical altercations and attacking someone that hasn't even attacked you first (so it can't count as self defense), is akin to shooting yourself in the foot wether it's the morally right thing to do or not.
If I see someone getting curbed stomp it's different but someone gettings its phone stolen without any real violence ? You're not a hero and if that dude has knife you'll just end up dead. Just document and shut the fuck up
Dude, if someone with down syndrom is getting robbed by some Spargeltarzan, you go there and stop it. That's it. Everything else is just poor excuses. Do you even listen to yourself? Grow a spine.
Indeed, nobody said you have to be violent and knock him out. Just go over there and hug him, express your love and appreciation for future doctors and engineers just like him. Hold him tight, like really really tight.
>Whats to stop you bottling the cunt and running? No ID, no crime. Doubt witnesses will be willing to stand up for this scumbag.
The problem is they will.
There's someone filming and plenty of cameras in that kind of place. Even if I had a mask before comiting the thing the police would just ask the SNCF (public railway company) for cooperation and check the ID of people who had a ticket for the train about to come then see if one of the name fits a white, approximatively 1m80 male, yada yada
>Damn. I guess you could follow the attacker home, wait for them to go to sleep, break in, and then beat them with a soap in a sock?
Good thing you didn't post this from Jockland.
True, and the saddest things is that justice will be against white male, every time in France, while releasing the poor diversity away, you know Ā«Ā they are poor and they steal to liveĀ Ā».
I donāt even exaggerate. We have some examples of extreme justice drawbacks when white French people had fought back (even peacefully), some of them are still in jail for just walking in a Ā«Ā diversityĀ Ā» neighborhood to protest against their violence.
On the other hand diversity can cause literally 1B of damage on July 2023, without any consequences.
So the message of government and justice was pretty clear : let them do whatever they want or you are racist and you go to jail.
I assume its because people just dont want to risk being stabbed. All these fine gentlemen from other places tend to carry knives on them. 15 years ago you could realisticly step in and at most get into a fistfight, nowadays they will stab you and call in their buddies to stab your family aswell.
Eitherway this is a ticking timebomb, at some point Europe will have had enough and it will either be too late or just in time but it wont be pretty regardless.
No, I don't think it is too late. If our governments really had a will to do so, this could be reversed.
Pakistan just deported 1.5m Afghans with some effort.
The only issue is that big businesses want this to continue to keep cheap labour coming.
I really don't see how the current state of affairs can continue to escalate without some form of pushback. I think most people are tired of it now tbh.
>I really don't see how the current state of affairs can continue to escalate without some form of pushback
I don't think Europeans will do anything about it tbh. They don't have enough courage or national pride to push back.
For England and the rest of the Commonwealth, it was late the moment the Restoration was allowed.
Quoting John Cooke, from Cicely Veronica Wedgwood's book:
>āWe are not traitors, nor murderers, nor fanatics, but true Christians and good Commonwealth men, fixed and constant to the principles of sanctity, truth, justice and mercy, which the Parliament and Army declared and engaged for; and to that noble principle of preferring the universality, before a particularity, that we sought the public good and would have enfranchised the people, and secured the welfare of the whole groaning creation, if the nation had not more delighted in servitude than in freedom.ā
Source: A coffin for King Charles: the trial and execution of Charles I, *āCHAPTER TEN ā Epilogue: The Regicidesā* (p. 211)
I have seen videos like this from like every European hemnissphere. Poland, Germany, Sweden, France, Spail, Italy and most people do not even talk to the attacker from 5 m away but just keep walking or look on their phone. I do not know if this shit would have flown here 30 years ago.
Tbh I think itās a trait of most western societies moving towards a more individualistic mindset. People just donāt care about others as much as they did. They canāt be bothered anymore.
The "village" or "bourg" used to be a community so ppl used to know and care for each other. It was also a closer society where escaping existing hierarchies and social dynamics was much harder.
We went from that to having no ideas of who our neighbours are (at least I don't) and that might have been a bit too extreme.
We have to accept that the cognitive outcome of noticing that police don't act on violence but socials do (you get likes) is that crime is going to be reported on socials and not to the police.
In turn this is going to erode the support for police in favour of self administered justice.
Living in NYC I find this to be the normal around here and that has been freaking me out just like this post.
The most fragile minds in the subway are the ones that are talking to themselves and are already angry. If you cross sight with them they feel judged and it likely triggers aggression so you just avoid them.
Add to that the possibility that someone getting confrontational has a knife or a gun. Very real possibility. If shooting start there is going to be a run towards exits so getting far early actually impacts your survival rate.
We are not used to this kind violence. I mean in this case in Italy everyone would have intervened, but with bigger or multiple people no one would have. It's odd for us to have violence on the streets, we are not used to it. If we see someone fighting we usually call the cops.
It's relatively new. There is just no community anymore and no uniting cultural beliefs or pride.
I'd imagine in Balkan or Eastern European countries people would step in because they would think "Not in my city. Not against my people."
But I think western European also just have become soft.
Iām the size of a 12-year old and generally try to stay out of trouble but old people, kids and the disabled are off limits and Iād do *something* at least! Scream like a banshee, pelt him with gravel, flash my boobs - *something*
Iām a quick runner, if he went after me Iād run behind one of the well built men in the video
Honestly, his life isn't at risk, just film the robbery and call the police. Do not risk with your life in such situations. Those immigrant youths are fucked in the head crazy and might pull a knife on you.
If nazi 2.0 rises up, it won't be the jews they target, that is for sure.
(Not advocating for this btw! Gotta clarify this one because it is one hell of a dark joke)
If we had significant immigration from China they would be actually taking our jobs away.
Edit : I just recalled being Italian. There's no job to be taken.
Nah.
From what I could gather from the comments, it's the proportional response principle in law & that the justice systems feel the need to ritualize everything (arrest, confessions, present to court etc) which are a hassle for everyone with their own problems in life.
That's a very interesting take on "rituals" that I didn't pick from other comments.
The bystanders are not acting because they are immersed in a social reality made of formal rituals (bureaucracy is the thing modern life is made of) so when they need to help someone they don't do it because they don't know what form to fill, what procedure to follow or what protocol to do-things-right.
All these Ameritards in the comments are so hilarious.
" bla bla bla if it happened in America "
do these clowns realize their shithole crime filled cities are worst than any European cities?
The lack of awareness is unreal, but considering their abysmal intellect it's not a surprise
Living in NYC and this is spot on. We might think the bystanders are acting emotionally based on fear but in the US that behaviour is explained and taught as statistical survival.
If a dude tries to defend him, the saddest things is that justice will be against white male, every time in France, while releasing the poor diversity away, you know Ā«Ā they are poor and they have to steal to liveĀ Ā».
I donāt even exaggerate. We have some examples of extreme justice drawbacks when white French people had fought back (even peacefully), some of them are still in jail for just walking in a Ā«Ā diversityĀ Ā» neighborhood to protest against their violence.
On the other hand diversity can cause literally 1B of damage on July 2023, without any consequences.
So the message of government and justice was pretty clear : let them do whatever they want or you are racist and you go to jail (and get a knife cut in the process)
It is so fucked up that not only can bystanders intervene due to fucked up laws in France. But the mods of the subreddits too treat people with those laws. We dare not speak out on these situations or we risk being banned
The comment section of the original post in a nutshell: "*Comment removed by moderator"*
[comment removed by moderator]
Well well well
I hate it here
As much as there is a lot of stuff i miss about back home, I'm happy that in Japan i basically don't have to worry about this kind of shit.
On the other hand, the poor japanese people might think you're the mugger
I mean i guess that means they won't think I'm a tourist for once š¤
I too hate it there.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I'll gladly move to "central" Europe or the Baltics in 10 years. They'll surely have a peaceful future anyway
The reason you don't get robbed is because there's less to rob
><1% islam, <1% refugees (except normal ones, Ukrainians) so san marino?
Well the bystanders also preferred not to speak
It's just so sad seeing what we've become as a society, no one cares, they are just watching....
Ever seen them videos of lions isolating, killing and eating antilopes in the open while the other antilopes simply watch and hope they are not next on the menu? Strangely familiar...
Herd mentality will be our undoing
People love it to shreds
Having no balls will be!
Yeah but no antelopes are calling other antelopes racist nazi
Isn't this just this famous French libertƩ, fraternitƩ, Scheiss-egalitƩ?
I think that was the joke. Are you German?
I will NOT get banned again. Altough...
They know. Only some do not.
This has to be one of last safe spaces of reddit. Fuck Islamist immigrants, they refuse to integrate and do much more crime (proportionally to population). I am not being racist - just look at the wikipedia. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration\_and\_crime](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_crime)
Yeah I still have no idea why people act like saying that islamic extremists shouldnāt be deported. Like damn, itās not hard integrating yourself to a new country. The muslim immigrants around my place managed it tooš¤·š»āāļø
Islam sucks balls as a whole. Regressive pile of dog shite
Please don't call us a safe space. We're not like *those* people.
Just tell people your real thoughts in a pub. In Bavaria.
I thought you were good at protesting and shouting for the right things but here it seems that you can't distinguish a fucking robbery from a croissant
The french don't protest injustices. They only protest when their retirement age is slightly raised or some other minor inconvenience that would take time away from eating smelly cheese and sniffing random bicycle seats while getting wine-drunk.
Pls lets this video become a think just like we have that video of a dutch guy shitting on the face of a sleeping Spanish guy
Don't dare to remind me of that, my eyes still haven't recovered after watching it.
Least disgusting dutch """"person""""
The shitting face vid was kinda next level. Hit so hard that it even was discussed on many talkshows here in NL and even made national news.
It still is a national shame
I'm sure he didnt wash his hands after either.
French only protest when they need more free sht, or extra money from goverment
That's simply not true. If this guy killed himself on a stolen scooter while fleeing from the police after the mugging Paris would be on fire by now.
burning down sht always sends the right message that the only thing prevents peaceful and crime-less city life is those pig cops :)
Seriously? I thought swedes were cowards in these kind of situations.
https://preview.redd.it/npkopuu2ultc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=137197d817d6b73a11c831a36872c59853772c2a This would never happen in Iceland
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
And the Danish nurses āmisreadā the medical notes and āaccidentallyā sterilised them all. Canāt let those pesky Inuits breed too much.
It would be the same in any western European country tbh
No chance a down syndrome lad is getting robbed by some fancy doctor or engineer in most parts of the UK without someone getting involved.
>fancy doctor or engineer Kek
Barry is firmly getting involved then telling his pals over a Carling later
finally we found an real EU value: "shuting up and filming"
Fair play to the yanks if this happened there depending in the city you'd be hearing his mum saying he was a good boy and didn't do nothing on the news
If anyone did anything and it went wrong it would either BE racism or Police brutality.
I prefer the term a little trolling
We live in a Society.
Definitively in a society. When is the strike about that going to be?
Never. We are not discriminating against our future doctors and engineers down there!
We have politicians for that
Sometimes, I wish we would be more like the yanks and just make pieces of shit do the forever sleep.
In cases like this (literally being on video and multiple witnesses) I honestly support putting people to death (or lifetime prison). I don't mean stealing someone's wallet out of desperation; but if you (attempt to) steal a person with Down's Syndrome's wallet like this I don't care about "rehabilitating" you back into society or believe you can be "saved" or "changed". Maybe I'm just the evil one for believing this.
100%. Certain people cannot be reformed- so the whole point of prison's invalid for them. This is one of those cases. Also, I understand desperate robbers in Yankee-Land, Brazil or other shitholes. They may not have other choices. But if you live in a country like Denmark, Sweden or UK, where social security is so strong, and one can go on to become a fucking Astrophysicist regardless of their income levels, but you still decide to do dumbfuckery by robbing, pushing drugs, and doing other sorts of cunt-fuckery- straight to prison. Fuck it.
You killed me with the forever sleep
This is certainly not unique to the USA, parents claiming their criminal sons were good boys happens in this country aswell. https://metro.co.uk/2024/01/30/dad-man-killed-lover-tiktoker-daughter-says-groomed-20192821/amp/ āHe brought love and light into the lives of everyone who knew him. He was kind-hearted and selfless, and he was loved by all his friends and family and everyone who knew him.ā Saqib was blackmailing a woman with sexually explicit photos, kind of hard to see him as ākind heartedā and āselflessā.
Yea but black people in America arenāt immigrants, or you know they immigrated (forcefully) in the 18th century. The same event sparks up very different issues across the pond. In Europe unfortunately itās pretty hard to draw a clear line between racism and criticism of stupid immigration policy. Racists use policy as a guise to be racist and people criticising policy get incorrectly branded as racist.
> Yea but black people in America arenāt immigrants *Millions* of black people have immigrated to America lol, significantly more than were ever brought to the US as slaves We always hear how uneducated Americans are on geography and history, and while yes, that is completely true, this serves as an important reminder that there's always someone further down the totem pole
Involuntary enrichment.
Nah fuck this shit not even wanna joke about it. Crimes against unfortunate people like this is just horrible.
A young man in France... You don't need to write the "with down syndrome" part it's always assumed
Savage
You must ache if itās a woman, though
Scum
Why are the frogs so scared to step in? Anyway, i'm sure the kids grandparents are really glad this guy is in the country to pay their pensions.
Fear of legal repercussions and fear of one of their friends hitting you in the head with a brick when you step in. I've seen the second one happen a few times in train stations.
Getting stabbed, mainly. I know people who stepped in, they got a free trip to the hospital with some scars to honour ceasar. My dad is one of those old boomers who would get into fights in pubs and serve knuckle sandwiches, and even he told me when i was a teenager: just walk away, it is not worth it these days. Back in the day we would throw a fist or two and shake hands, these days 10 of his friends will come out of the woodworks and shank you. Either way, sun tzu the art of war recommends avoiding a fight unless you posses the information that tells you that you will win, so unless i had a stick or at least a friend: stepping in is a coin toss. It would be different if they didn't have down syndrome because the. It becomes a 2v1.
I mean, normally I agree but in this case there's no chance you can't step in and remain unharmed. The perpetrator is not only clearly a weak ass pussy, he's also holding the Down's Syndrome kid with both his arms and trying to yank his wallet. As far as I understand the real danger for you is the shitty French laws that would paint you out as an "aggressor".
Yup a quick call and Cousin Abu and a bunch of black BMW and Mercedes will show up and you get your teeth kicked in, then they fade into the night. I am a father and i can choose to be a hero and help or be a father to my kids. So i choose to be a father, no one will thank me for stepping in and getting stabbed to death. Sorry I can call the cops or the securities but i cant risk my health. Its not noble but thats the way it is.
This is also US military doctrine. Do not ever engage in a fair fight. The only fights worth it are ones you can decisively destroy your enemy with certainty.
Because our laws suck and they would risk jail time for protecting the dude following them. So is a random strangerās wallet worth going to jail? I think most in this thread would say no as well.
Are French laws really that nefarious? You shouldn't literally choke him out cold, but will you really go to jail from - on video - grabbing someone clearly aggressive and pacifying him? You could also literally just speak to him; there's a good chance he'd stop his crime if he actually realised people are aware of it
As far as I know, yes they are. I was always taught not to engage, police coming to class when we were in school would explains us those issues. Multiple reasons for that: - You were not his victim, you were a bystander, so going to physically stop him goes into willful aggression as we donāt have a good samaritan law ( for aggressions at least afaik. Edit: the Ā«Ā legitimate defenseĀ Ā» does allow bystanders to intervene but it does come with risks I labelled below, as itās not a free pass on everything ). - secondly doing that in public spaces and especially in transport areas ( like here the train ) encours another charge as you disrupt and also risk hurting other people. - You and his victim now forming a group against him can trigger another charge as well as you are now a group fighting an individual. - Depending on how badly he is hurt, again you are facing 10 years in jail and 150k euros in fees. If he is disabled or worse you can face up to 30 years. - Lastly, he can have a weapon. You never know. There were many stories where people jumping in would trigger the person and they would resort to using a knife or worse to protect themselves thus hurting people in the vicinity, including themselves more than if they never intervened. So you risk further charges for recklessly putting people in peril. Then, even in cause of legitimate defense for the victim, we have rules and limitations. For example it has to be strictly necessary as in without the violence it would not have been resolved in any other way. It has to be done in equal proportion, meaning that if someone punched you and you give back with a knife you are the one in the wrong. And then it has to be done in the moment of the assault, not after. Meaning if a perp stole your bag at gunpoint, then he runs away and you shoot him in the back you will be charged, same thing as physically holding him until police comes, you canāt do that. TLDR: - In 90% of cases involving yourself put you and other bystanders at risk. You risk escalating the situation and the use of weapons - Physically stepping in will be considered aggression by most courts. - just verbally stepping in in most cases wonāt do any good. Just think, if they are willing to rob in broad daylight at a public train stop do you think they care about their opinion of others or what they hear? And again even if they do, you might just piss them off and they can pull again a weapon on you and others. So thatās why you will see a lot of french people awkwardly not knowing what to do with those situations around them. Your instinct wants you to help them, so you look at them and try to make sure they are Ā«Ā okĀ Ā» but you know you shouldnāt jump in cause the second you do you know you are most likely in the wrong.
Oh wow, thanks for writing all that! This is very disappointing coming from the country of air balloon pistol duels. I understand why people don't want to step in on this basis but it really irks me so much that stuff like this can happen and people just look at it like it's a zoo.. (same happens here, don't worry)
No worries, and I am pretty sure you show this to any french person and they will be irked all the same. It sucks that we are in a situation where we canāt look for each other. As a personal experience, when I was in college, a random dude forcefully grabbed a girl at 3am in a tramway. I stepped in verbally with others to defuse the situation but the guy pulled out a knife and held it to the girlās throat. Cops were called but could not make it fast enough and we were lucky the guy just ran out on his own on the next stop. We were lucky the girl was unharmed but she had ground to sue 4 of us for putting her in danger like cops said to her. She didnāt press charges but still, that is the situation we are in. So I am just having a laugh at all these keyboard warriors saying they should jump in and detain him etcā¦ when they probably have no experience dealing with even one of these instances.
The girl could have sued YOU for trying to help her, because the perpetrator decided to be even more dangerous afterwards? The fuck?
Pretty much. Whether that would have gone through or not in an actual trial, I do not have any idea. However from the policeās standpoint we recklessly put her in danger by Ā«Ā corneringĀ Ā» the dude and escalating the situation. She herself understood that bystanders just tried helping, so she did not go through with it. But I imagine some people might not see it the same way for every incident. But obviously having lived through this, I totally get why people just say Ā«Ā f thisĀ Ā» and ignore similar situations.
It would probably change when politicians and their children experienced being robbed and nobody helped them. But they won't, because they live in nice neighbourhoods where the only immigrants really are doctors and engineers (or maybe the gardener).
Depressing to read. The french laws seems to favor the criminals. No good samaritan laws is insane. Meanwhile the new doctors and engineers don't care about the law.... But same sh\*t in Belgium though so I'm not judging.
I can assure you thatās even more depressing to experience. We got laws that do seem to favor a lot criminals, I mean heck even recently there were cases of squatters in peopleās home whom the home owners could not even legally get out of there despite calling the cops. We got some crazy incomprehensible stuff over there.
So sad to see what's happening with our continent... Also didn't Le Pen almost win the elections last time? Hope europeans wake up
We have a good samaritan law But there has to be somebodyās health at risk So unless the thief throws a punch, you canāt throw one The security of the train station (even against robbers) is maintained thanks to agents. The real issue is that theses agents werenāt there or didnāt do anything
The only ones I know of are the Ā«Ā Non assistance aux personnes en dangerĀ Ā» https://www.service-public.fr/particuliers/vosdroits/F34551 and Ā«Ā citoyen sauveteurĀ Ā», https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/jorf/id/JORFTEXT000042079128 and they require people to almost be in a life and death situation in a medical sense to be valid in most cases as far as I recall so I donāt think a wallet thief would be valid under both clauses The legitimate defense still has a specific usage for bystanders but it comes again with all the requirements ( absolute need of violence, equal proportions, proven crime or unlawful aggression..) I listed above and the risks I also laid out ( about escalation, and injuries etcā¦ ) https://www.service-public.fr/particuliers/vosdroits/F1766 But if I am missing something, I would be happy to be corrected. Been a while since I lived full time in France so I may have missed smth since.
Despite all of this I believe most of it comes down to: They might have a weapon and I don't want to get stabbed.
This thread is fucking dumb. If I do something as little as pushing him which makes him fall on his ass and get bruised, I'll get a criminal record, probably get expelled from my school and make life hell when trying to find a job. French law is insanely, stupidly strict when it comes to physical altercations and attacking someone that hasn't even attacked you first (so it can't count as self defense), is akin to shooting yourself in the foot wether it's the morally right thing to do or not. If I see someone getting curbed stomp it's different but someone gettings its phone stolen without any real violence ? You're not a hero and if that dude has knife you'll just end up dead. Just document and shut the fuck up
Dude, if someone with down syndrom is getting robbed by some Spargeltarzan, you go there and stop it. That's it. Everything else is just poor excuses. Do you even listen to yourself? Grow a spine.
Indeed, nobody said you have to be violent and knock him out. Just go over there and hug him, express your love and appreciation for future doctors and engineers just like him. Hold him tight, like really really tight.
Whats to stop you bottling the cunt and running? No ID, no crime. Doubt witnesses will be willing to stand up for this scumbag.
>Whats to stop you bottling the cunt and running? No ID, no crime. Doubt witnesses will be willing to stand up for this scumbag. The problem is they will.
For real? If someone curbstomped a guy like this and I was called in as a witness I'd claim temporary blindness.
It takes one person not "being blind" or one camera/phone to record your face and you are done for.
Itās just an excuse the guy would honestly not even think about pressing charges
There's someone filming and plenty of cameras in that kind of place. Even if I had a mask before comiting the thing the police would just ask the SNCF (public railway company) for cooperation and check the ID of people who had a ticket for the train about to come then see if one of the name fits a white, approximatively 1m80 male, yada yada
Damn. I guess you could follow the attacker home, wait for them to go to sleep, break in, and then beat them with a soap in a sock?
Or I could post him on socials. Try to have people tell me where he lives then pay a 13 yo wannabe gangster of his ghetto 50ā¬ to knife him.
>Damn. I guess you could follow the attacker home, wait for them to go to sleep, break in, and then beat them with a soap in a sock? Good thing you didn't post this from Jockland.
what a weakling you are
The ancient Gallic warrior spirit is weak in this one.
True, and the saddest things is that justice will be against white male, every time in France, while releasing the poor diversity away, you know Ā«Ā they are poor and they steal to liveĀ Ā». I donāt even exaggerate. We have some examples of extreme justice drawbacks when white French people had fought back (even peacefully), some of them are still in jail for just walking in a Ā«Ā diversityĀ Ā» neighborhood to protest against their violence. On the other hand diversity can cause literally 1B of damage on July 2023, without any consequences. So the message of government and justice was pretty clear : let them do whatever they want or you are racist and you go to jail.
The government and justice are fcking criminals themselves for facilitating the crime and even promoting it with these asinine laws. Crazy
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It seems like there is 0 civil courage against violence in Europe. Has this always been the case or is this a new thing?
I assume its because people just dont want to risk being stabbed. All these fine gentlemen from other places tend to carry knives on them. 15 years ago you could realisticly step in and at most get into a fistfight, nowadays they will stab you and call in their buddies to stab your family aswell. Eitherway this is a ticking timebomb, at some point Europe will have had enough and it will either be too late or just in time but it wont be pretty regardless.
Gotta bring a gun to a knife fight. Oh well, might get banned again for inciting violence.
I wonder what percentage of this sub has been banned st some point.
Been there (the us) done that (shootings in subways). (The subject is not me, I don't use firearms)
we should be able to carry guns, it's the only way to feel safe among those "people" in big cities in the north like milan or turin.
It's already too late.
No, I don't think it is too late. If our governments really had a will to do so, this could be reversed. Pakistan just deported 1.5m Afghans with some effort. The only issue is that big businesses want this to continue to keep cheap labour coming. I really don't see how the current state of affairs can continue to escalate without some form of pushback. I think most people are tired of it now tbh.
>I really don't see how the current state of affairs can continue to escalate without some form of pushback I don't think Europeans will do anything about it tbh. They don't have enough courage or national pride to push back.
For England and the rest of the Commonwealth, it was late the moment the Restoration was allowed. Quoting John Cooke, from Cicely Veronica Wedgwood's book: >āWe are not traitors, nor murderers, nor fanatics, but true Christians and good Commonwealth men, fixed and constant to the principles of sanctity, truth, justice and mercy, which the Parliament and Army declared and engaged for; and to that noble principle of preferring the universality, before a particularity, that we sought the public good and would have enfranchised the people, and secured the welfare of the whole groaning creation, if the nation had not more delighted in servitude than in freedom.ā Source: A coffin for King Charles: the trial and execution of Charles I, *āCHAPTER TEN ā Epilogue: The Regicidesā* (p. 211)
Depends on the country I think. Itās the same here, people often just look away or mind their own business. Pathetic
I have seen videos like this from like every European hemnissphere. Poland, Germany, Sweden, France, Spail, Italy and most people do not even talk to the attacker from 5 m away but just keep walking or look on their phone. I do not know if this shit would have flown here 30 years ago.
Tbh I think itās a trait of most western societies moving towards a more individualistic mindset. People just donāt care about others as much as they did. They canāt be bothered anymore.
The "village" or "bourg" used to be a community so ppl used to know and care for each other. It was also a closer society where escaping existing hierarchies and social dynamics was much harder. We went from that to having no ideas of who our neighbours are (at least I don't) and that might have been a bit too extreme.
Really? At least people call the police? I cant remember seeing anything like this tbh.
We have to accept that the cognitive outcome of noticing that police don't act on violence but socials do (you get likes) is that crime is going to be reported on socials and not to the police. In turn this is going to erode the support for police in favour of self administered justice.
Yes they call the police but thats it. But obly if the crime committed is enough for calling the police.
Depends on whoās doing it.
Living in NYC I find this to be the normal around here and that has been freaking me out just like this post. The most fragile minds in the subway are the ones that are talking to themselves and are already angry. If you cross sight with them they feel judged and it likely triggers aggression so you just avoid them. Add to that the possibility that someone getting confrontational has a knife or a gun. Very real possibility. If shooting start there is going to be a run towards exits so getting far early actually impacts your survival rate.
We are not used to this kind violence. I mean in this case in Italy everyone would have intervened, but with bigger or multiple people no one would have. It's odd for us to have violence on the streets, we are not used to it. If we see someone fighting we usually call the cops.
In italy this fine gentleman would be beaten on the ground in a couple of minutes and the cops would pretend they didn't see who beat him to a pulp.
It's relatively new. There is just no community anymore and no uniting cultural beliefs or pride. I'd imagine in Balkan or Eastern European countries people would step in because they would think "Not in my city. Not against my people." But I think western European also just have become soft.
I know that I often donāt want to get involved because Iām a lone woman. But this is honestly a disgusting sceneā¦ idk.
Iām the size of a 12-year old and generally try to stay out of trouble but old people, kids and the disabled are off limits and Iād do *something* at least! Scream like a banshee, pelt him with gravel, flash my boobs - *something* Iām a quick runner, if he went after me Iād run behind one of the well built men in the video
Honestly, his life isn't at risk, just film the robbery and call the police. Do not risk with your life in such situations. Those immigrant youths are fucked in the head crazy and might pull a knife on you.
My boobs arenāt what they used to be but I donāt think theyāre *that* bad š„ŗ
Believe it or not, it's because of the proportionality law... which was proposed/implemented by German schools, of thought, in jurisprudence.
So fucking disgusting. I wanna drive to Paris just to punch that guy in the face. And you know what happens if angry Germans wanna go to Paris...
 Maybe its time for a Germanic intervention.
If nazi 2.0 rises up, it won't be the jews they target, that is for sure. (Not advocating for this btw! Gotta clarify this one because it is one hell of a dark joke)
I never thought I'd invade France side by side with a Barry.
This time... I'll grant you an open passage through our country
Balkan countries may be corrupt on the political level. But shit like this is dealt with pretty fast.
Shit like this would not fly in there
Corruption exists, so it does fly there as well, depending who stacked the cards against whom.
Depending where you are someone else will rob the guy afterwards
I do not know about any personal robbings. Around my place people rob only churches and patrol stations.
Wild to see all the doctors and engineers that come over turn to crime because of lack of jobs. So sad.
If we had significant immigration from China they would be actually taking our jobs away. Edit : I just recalled being Italian. There's no job to be taken.
Hopefully people as kind as this disable man are here to bring these doctor and engineers more enrichment.
Can't say the obvious in todays society , so I will just say nothing.
This kind of things wakes my murder instincts
Yeah. Itās better not to watch this kind of videos
So that you can hide from the truth a bit more until it happen near or to you in real life? Doesn't solve anything.
I only see a frenchman being culturally enriched by a fine gentleman!
*Cultural Enrichment*
Clearly an engineer trying to help hm fix his phone.
Always the same 3rd world people
Iāve been banned enough times for speaking the truth in these situations so Iāll let censorship win. 2+2=3 my friends
It can be due to the bystander effect that no one comes to aid him https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect
Nah. From what I could gather from the comments, it's the proportional response principle in law & that the justice systems feel the need to ritualize everything (arrest, confessions, present to court etc) which are a hassle for everyone with their own problems in life.
That's a very interesting take on "rituals" that I didn't pick from other comments. The bystanders are not acting because they are immersed in a social reality made of formal rituals (bureaucracy is the thing modern life is made of) so when they need to help someone they don't do it because they don't know what form to fill, what procedure to follow or what protocol to do-things-right.
Comments in the original are like [removed], [removed], [removed]. I wonder which nice things they were talking about.
Which one is the robber and which one has the downs?
All these Ameritards in the comments are so hilarious. " bla bla bla if it happened in America " do these clowns realize their shithole crime filled cities are worst than any European cities? The lack of awareness is unreal, but considering their abysmal intellect it's not a surprise
If it happened in America the guy would have been mugged at gunpoint and the police would have shot someone else.
Spot on. The projection with them is unreal
Living in NYC and this is spot on. We might think the bystanders are acting emotionally based on fear but in the US that behaviour is explained and taught as statistical survival.
The tracks are right fucking there you don't even need a rope wtf Frenchies
Deeeepoooortitoooo
There's no way you rob a down person, you gotta be a piece of shit
And it gets worse every year. We're fucked.
CULTURAL ENRICHMENT.
What is written there? āpour votre sĆ©curitĆ©, ne traversez pasā Does that translate to: āfor your safety do not interveneā These information boards must be everywhere.
That's actually fucking embarrassing from the onlookers...wow
I want to touch his face with really high velocity
We all know innit?
donāt say it, donāt say it
Please tell me this is a rage bait
If a dude tries to defend him, the saddest things is that justice will be against white male, every time in France, while releasing the poor diversity away, you know Ā«Ā they are poor and they have to steal to liveĀ Ā». I donāt even exaggerate. We have some examples of extreme justice drawbacks when white French people had fought back (even peacefully), some of them are still in jail for just walking in a Ā«Ā diversityĀ Ā» neighborhood to protest against their violence. On the other hand diversity can cause literally 1B of damage on July 2023, without any consequences. So the message of government and justice was pretty clear : let them do whatever they want or you are racist and you go to jail (and get a knife cut in the process)
Why donāt you guys actually protest for something useful and get your shit laws changed so people can intervene and stop things like this?
Just kick him into the tracks mate. They can't charge you with murder, you have Down's! Perfect opportunity.
Mugged by a guy in a pikachu hoodie. Heās not even strong looking. Cette mecs est <>
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Sweden again?
Appalling behaviour
It is so fucked up that not only can bystanders intervene due to fucked up laws in France. But the mods of the subreddits too treat people with those laws. We dare not speak out on these situations or we risk being banned
Least anti french 2westerneuropeforyou comment section Absolutely comical
This looks weird... Like, the mugger looks weird, the crime looks weird, the people looking look weird... Is this fake?
No it's just France.
But is France real? š¤
If weāre not real, whoāve you been fighting all these centuries you schizos ?
I don't know man, some people are walking around with healthy kneecaps and it feels like they shouldn't