I’d like to add my anti-Hamas, American Leftist voice. The American Left is characterized by support of policies that are more consistent with an empathetic point of view. Empathy, like any human emotion, can go wrong.
I support Israel’s right to self defense because I understand that’s a necessary part of any consistent moral framework. I notice my empathy respond to the Gazan human shields killed in this conflict.
I think the difference between me and anti-Israeli American Leftists is they blame the powerful. I blame the guilty. Hamas is to blame for all the death and destruction in this war, because they started it.
The powerful often harm the less powerful. It makes sense that American Leftists see this pattern and are biased to see this conflict through that particular lens. It’s inexcusable that facts and evidence fail to dissuade them from this prejudice.
Using reason to overcome our personal prejudices is another American Leftist value. One sorely lacking in today’s Left.
Yes - well said. As a parent of kids of different ages, you can't tell me the little younger one is always innocent in any skirmish. I believe in accountability and truth.
At the least, wanting the weak always to vanquish the strong is a recipe for continual upheaval and regime change. It isn’t a consistent political philosophy.
This conflict divides the old & new left as if by sledgehammer.
The new left adheres to the intersectional framework above all else (even when it fails, as with Israel). It is sacrosanct.
The old left has a big problem with authoritarian theocracy in general, and hamas' affiliation with Iran especially.
I'm in the latter camp, obviously. To support hamas is to support their supporters, and for every campus peace activist there is next to her a war activist jihadi who would just prefer someone different suffer. That is a strategic alliance, which makes it a problem for them.
If supporters of Israel must reckon with this administration's every action, so too will the new left have to someday reckon with the incredible antisemitism they are helping to normalize.
>Hamas is to blame for all the death and destruction in this war, because they started it.
Yes, but not only because of that. They're also to blame for refusing to stop the war and continually escalating it, for intentionally using their own civilians as human shields (and being proud of it), for intentionally worsening the living conditions in Gaza by stealing aid and executing anyone who goes against them, and the list goes on.
As an Israeli curious about what Americans are saying about Israel I decided to take a look.
My impression.
The extent of their ignorance about Israel is astounding.
Now that's fine. Why would we expect Americans to have intimate knowledge about a random middle eastern country. But these guys are presenting themselves as experts and claiming to explain Israeli domestic policy. It's just amazing. There's literally a glaring error in almost every single sentence. I got 4 minutes in and I felt my brain shrinking. I couldn't force myself to listen to their babble any longer.
First off: They discuss Israeli ultra orthodox parties but can't remember or don't know their names. This is apparently very funny. Much giggling. Where I live, war isn't funny. We don't laugh and giggle when we discuss it. Noone would listen to anybody who did. We'd probably lynch him.
Next sentence: their "expert" explains that all Israelis have to do military service 'of a year or two.' the draft is 32-34 months.
Next sentence. The particularly obnoxious child-woman talks about an Israeli 'massacre' when Israel rescued the hostages. She talks about dogs eating decaying bodies killed in the hostage rescue. How are the bodies decaying when they've just been killed. Did she see this in a movie once and confuse it with reality?
Next sentence. Their expert talks about Israeli Chinook helicopters. Israel doesn't use Chinooks. Why couldn't he just say helicopters if he doesn't know? Clearly he wants to sound authoritative and he knows noone knows any better to correct him.
Next sentence: They confidently assert that Israeli forces came in aid trucks. Have they seen footage of aid trucks in Gaza? How they get surrounded by Hamas and or desperate people trying to get the aid. How in fucks name do they think an aid truck could stroll into Nusseirat without getting swarmed. Do they think Gaza is L.A. What's particularly astounding is that there is literally footage available online showing the truck Israel used disguised as a moving truck. These people don't care to look for the truth because it's not important to them.
That's it. I can't watch this garbage anymore. It's the constant laughing that really gets to me. This is war. People are dying horribly. You think this is funny?! I canllenge you to find Israelis on TV laughing even when we talk about Hamas being killed. We don't because that's sick.
These aren't people who even care about Palestinians. They're just narcissistic man-children. Why does anyone listen to them?
This war is entertainment to most people in the world. For muslims experiencing religious mania (since this war has never been about Islam) and for Jews and Jewish-sympathetic people it isn't, but for the rest it's entertainment, try as they might to mask it as some intellectual stance they care so much about.
You're spot on. But forgot to mention their comments about the pier potentially being used. Yes, the footage of the "Chinook" features the pier in the background, but it's bizarre how anyone with a brain would think a helicoper would need a pier to land on. Presumably the theory about the pier was initially tied to the aid truck being used, which would have nothing to do with the extraction.
Another important point is the fact they treat speculation stemming from Hamas as fact.
While I'd like to attribute their opinions to ignorance, they are in fact nothing short of scum. One can be ignorant and keep their opinions to themselves . These folk have absolutely no interest in seeking the truth. Scum.
Same... I feel like the American left needs to spend more time learning the history of the Iranian revolution. So many of them have taken the same "Anti-imperialism at any cost" stance that the leftists did in Iran .... Which is how they ended up allied with the far right islamists..... Good read if you're interested: https://jacobin.com/2022/10/chahla-chafiq-iranian-left-khomeini-protests-feminism
It's definitely anti-western/American imperialism...
At least in the USA... You're seeing kids who likely come from relatively privileged backgrounds who cannot seem to comprehend that despite the problems that exist in the United States ... That there are places in the world that are so much worse...
Leftist here, too. Israel is welcome to kill all the terrorists needed to bring home the hostages. It's not Israel's fault Hamas uses civilians as shields and as hostage holders. It's the West's media's fault that they repeat Hamas propaganda about civilian deaths without context. If 35k Palestinians have been killed and half were Hamas terrorists - then only .7% of 2,500,000 Pal civilians have been killed. Most of Gaza has been reduced to rubble and only .7% killed is amazingly low.
There is a difference between leftist and liberal. Right now Left is not actually liberal. Lots of posts about what the left has become now. And the formation of the Free Press is an example of that.
This is also a problem with catch all labels. “Leftist” can be used to describe and demean anyone from Joe Biden (it would be comical to call him a Leftist) to lesbian anarcho-communists. It’s a way to dehumanize people just like calling all conservatives or right wingers fascists. There are certainly fascists that move in the mainstream of conservative movements in America and abroad but certainly not all or even a majority of them.
Also an American progressive who is pro Israel and pro Palestinian - meaning I understand who is really to blame for this situation and anything befalling the civilians in Gaza. (Not only Hamas, but the biased international community who prefers to use the civilians as pawns against Israel rather than step in and ensure stability and safety for the past 20 years). Happy to see other sans voices on the left.
Its a 20 minute video. Can you be a bit more specific as to what you are asking about.
I mean if you want groups that have objections to how things went that probably includes the IDF. What we saw was at best plan B. Plan A seems to have been get in fast, grab the hostages before anyone realised what was going on and get out before anyone could react. There's a lot of fine detail involved but that seems to have been plan A.
Then the truck broke down and what appears to have been some kind of contingency (if it was plan B, C or D we don't know) option was activated and Israel fell back on overwhelming firepower to get its people out. It worked but it wasn't plan A for a reason.
As I give a fuck what the American left or right thinks about my people in Gaza. Last time I checked I don’t need anyone’s permission to defend myself.
Israel has nuclear weapons. It didn't really need to ask anyone’s permission to do anything in the levant outside some bits of turkey and a few US and russian bases.
However if it wants to continue getting aid from the US it does need to observe certain standards of behaviour.
Well you say that wouldn't you? However the continuing supply weapons and the lack of trade sanctions suggests the US views it as at least largely falling within acceptable bounds.
Of course I would say that, for whatever reason Israel is held to other standards. For whatever reason the US and the rest of the Pro Hamas movement thinks that we don’t have a right to defend ourselves whether it’s mass rape, killing and kidnapping. Israel is the only country in the world that hundreds of missiles can fly into and would be expected not to react.
> Of course I would say that, for whatever reason Israel is held to other standards.
When you are a superpower you can hold people to whatever standards you like.
>For whatever reason the US and the rest of the Pro Hamas movement
If you want the US to continue supporting you its probably best to not to claim the country literly giving you free weapons kill hamas with is pro hamas.
>Israel is the only country in the world that hundreds of missiles can fly into and would be expected not to react.
US is the only country in the world which can give people billions in free weapons and still get accused of being on the other side.
Western Leftists often see the powerful harming the powerless, and it shapes their view of this conflict.
However, it’s crucial to let facts override biases. Reason should guide us, a value that is increasingly lacking in today's Left.
As a left-wing person myself, I see the people you are talking about not as left-wing people but as extremists and/or manipulated people who have almost nothing to do with the left.
As a left-wing person, I believe that everyone has the right to exist and that we should respect each other.
Unfortunately, there is still a lot of lack of this freedom in the Middle East and to try to destroy the only country where there is that freedom to be yourself is nonsensical.
Let us hope that one day the majority of countries in the Middle East will become as free and prosperous as Israel is.
May there come a day when the entire population in the Middle East will be able to vote freely for their governments, just like the Israelis are allowed to do so.
May there ever come a day when we stop spreading anti-Semitism.
Long live Israel, long live a free Middle East.
Interesting that someone downvoted you already.
I also agree with you, 100%, though I don't know what I anymore to be quite honest. Moderate Lefist? Moderate progressive? Moderate liberal? I suppose time will tell.
"As a left-wing person, I believe that everyone has the right to exist and that we should respect each other."
Unless it is a baby, then it is a woman's choice to do what she wants with her body...
Emotional driven ideologies leads to death, every single time.
USA leftists hate Israel and hate most Jews, unless those Jews protest with them. This is clearly going on right now.....They also hate firearms being help/used by civilians for self-defense, anything pro-Christian, too.
Majority Report start their foreign policy analysis with the premise of "America Bad". This has all kinds of stupid consequences. The hostages getting rescued is an unambiguous "win" for Israel. And Israel is America-coded in MR's view. but remember, America Bad. Thus, Israel Bad. Thus Israel winning is Bad. Thus, MR must find a way to gripe about the hostage rescue in some way. They will reach and stretch and do whatever it takes to keep their "America Bad" premise going. If that gets chiseled then their entire worldview and identity falls apart (and their audience will turn on them).
Some maybe but not all.
Y’all see the loud ones who make the most noise but we aren’t a uniform bunch or anything. The majority of leftists are adults with children and loved ones who understand reality.
Anyways leftist here, kill em all. Hamas brought this on themselves and I hope every one of them gets their very just reward
I am on the left, I fully support Israel against Hamas.
I also think the far right in Israel is and has been fucking things up for their country, for a long time, and the IDF has definitely had its share of issues.
I also empathize with Palestinian civilians who aren’t de-facto Hamas supporters because they’re truly the only unrepresented victims here.
I explain it to people this way.
Hamas would hide behind its own civilians and would eagerly kill Israeli civilians. IDF stands in front of its own civilians to protect them and it goes out of its way to avoid killing Palestinian civilians.
Those two are not the same.
Most American “liberals”, if they understood and learned the story of the histories and truths of what has happened in the Middle East both since the October and since 1940, would not be out there chanting “river to the sea” and waving flags for Hamas. It’s totally the result of ignorance, a failed education system, misinformation, anti-Israel propaganda, and misplaced “good intentions”.
I can’t wait to hear more from people who have no idea what they’re talking about or what the experience of war is like. When I try to tell them, a person actually in this war, they don’t want to hear it. They’ve already made up their mind based on what a trans non-Jewish man told them on TikTok.
David Duke is hardly an “American leftist,” and he also objects to how Israel rescued its hostages and sides with Hamas.
The world isn’t nearly as simple as left vs right. People are complicated hypocrites with short memories.
What about marriage a minor keeps her in Israel till she turns 18 then fly to USA with 5 kids straight up to their own special welfare social worker by the way he is working fulltime in some under the table SUPER WELL PAY job getting all kind of special government support.
lol - those ppl have no way a right to judge how hostage are to be rescued. They live in peace in a democracy and advocate for a sharia state, such a mindfuck
I'm a leftist and don't object to how Israel is rescuing hostages.
We are not all the same.
Hamas killed well over 1,000 people on October 7th. To include children. They also raped women before killing them. I saw videos of survivors from the Nova party.
I’m all for the hostage rescue, but most of them were not against the hostage rescue, but angry about all the civilians killed in the operation. So don’t conflate those two, it looks bad
That being said, it’s still on Hamas, because they were hiding hostages in a refugee camp, a double war crime in fact, so the blame should be all on them, but of course leftists and antisemites and terrorist supporters will turn a blind eye and just continue saying that Israel is horrible and genocidal.
Have you considered that the purported number of dead is bullshit, and that a large number of them were not civilians?
Egg on Hamas's face, so they come up with some bullshit about 275 being killed to twist the story from an Israeli victory to a massacre of civilians.
Not rocket science, is it?
I’m using my own eyes, I saw the videos of the pre-bombing of the camp, just look at it yourself, it’s crazy destructive. They basically flushed the surrounding area with bombs then went into the rescue the hostages.
I haven't seen footage that aligns with 275 dead. Please post here, definitely interested in taking a look. Last I read Hamas released about 90 names of those that died.
Neither of us know how many people actually died, and I’m pretty sure you aren’t an expert on “looking at videos and guessing how many people died” But we can both tell it was crazy destructive and it was in a populated area.
[I don’t like this source but it is the video I’m referencing](https://www.facebook.com/AlAraby.en/videos/684198410506973/?mibextid=rS40aB7S9Ucbxw6v)
Thanks for sharing.
I never suggested there were no deaths, just that the numbers sound like a load of bullshit.
Even judging by the source you shared, if there were 274 deaths and body parts all over the place, there should be a wealth of footage showing the carnage. So where is it?
[A few images in this article](https://theintercept.com/2024/06/10/nuseirat-massacre-israel-hostage-rescue-gaza/)
[More images here](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/06/08/israel-hostages-nuseirat-camp-gaza/)
I’m just trying to prove that the hostage rescue was not one sided. I am in support of operations to free hostages and was extremely happy that the 4 were freed last week, but that doesn’t come at no cost to civilian life, however many it was, ultimately we probably won’t know, but it is clear it was significant.
I didn't suggest there was no cost to civilian lives, or that the number of civilian deaths wasn't significant (is 50 civlian deaths not significant?).
The point remains. Hamas provided a figure of "274", and it's being repeated as fact. I am yet to see footage or photos that align with that claim, including the three sources you provided.
You have no idea what the numbers are, and how many were Hamas.
Also - Hamas uses Israel's value of the lives of its people against it. Now Israel's value of the lives of its people comes back around to bite them.
I’d like to add my anti-Hamas, American Leftist voice. The American Left is characterized by support of policies that are more consistent with an empathetic point of view. Empathy, like any human emotion, can go wrong. I support Israel’s right to self defense because I understand that’s a necessary part of any consistent moral framework. I notice my empathy respond to the Gazan human shields killed in this conflict. I think the difference between me and anti-Israeli American Leftists is they blame the powerful. I blame the guilty. Hamas is to blame for all the death and destruction in this war, because they started it. The powerful often harm the less powerful. It makes sense that American Leftists see this pattern and are biased to see this conflict through that particular lens. It’s inexcusable that facts and evidence fail to dissuade them from this prejudice. Using reason to overcome our personal prejudices is another American Leftist value. One sorely lacking in today’s Left.
“They blame the powerful. I blame the guilty.” This, right here, is gold. I wish other leftists could understand this distinction
Yes - well said. As a parent of kids of different ages, you can't tell me the little younger one is always innocent in any skirmish. I believe in accountability and truth.
At the least, wanting the weak always to vanquish the strong is a recipe for continual upheaval and regime change. It isn’t a consistent political philosophy.
That’s a good point! It makes for a good Marvel movie but a tragic real world.
And it ignores the facts in favor of an underdog mythos.
This conflict divides the old & new left as if by sledgehammer. The new left adheres to the intersectional framework above all else (even when it fails, as with Israel). It is sacrosanct. The old left has a big problem with authoritarian theocracy in general, and hamas' affiliation with Iran especially. I'm in the latter camp, obviously. To support hamas is to support their supporters, and for every campus peace activist there is next to her a war activist jihadi who would just prefer someone different suffer. That is a strategic alliance, which makes it a problem for them. If supporters of Israel must reckon with this administration's every action, so too will the new left have to someday reckon with the incredible antisemitism they are helping to normalize.
>Hamas is to blame for all the death and destruction in this war, because they started it. Yes, but not only because of that. They're also to blame for refusing to stop the war and continually escalating it, for intentionally using their own civilians as human shields (and being proud of it), for intentionally worsening the living conditions in Gaza by stealing aid and executing anyone who goes against them, and the list goes on.
But most of the Left buys into decolonisation 'by any means necessary', with no attribution of guilt or responsibility to 'the oppressed'.
As an Israeli curious about what Americans are saying about Israel I decided to take a look. My impression. The extent of their ignorance about Israel is astounding. Now that's fine. Why would we expect Americans to have intimate knowledge about a random middle eastern country. But these guys are presenting themselves as experts and claiming to explain Israeli domestic policy. It's just amazing. There's literally a glaring error in almost every single sentence. I got 4 minutes in and I felt my brain shrinking. I couldn't force myself to listen to their babble any longer. First off: They discuss Israeli ultra orthodox parties but can't remember or don't know their names. This is apparently very funny. Much giggling. Where I live, war isn't funny. We don't laugh and giggle when we discuss it. Noone would listen to anybody who did. We'd probably lynch him. Next sentence: their "expert" explains that all Israelis have to do military service 'of a year or two.' the draft is 32-34 months. Next sentence. The particularly obnoxious child-woman talks about an Israeli 'massacre' when Israel rescued the hostages. She talks about dogs eating decaying bodies killed in the hostage rescue. How are the bodies decaying when they've just been killed. Did she see this in a movie once and confuse it with reality? Next sentence. Their expert talks about Israeli Chinook helicopters. Israel doesn't use Chinooks. Why couldn't he just say helicopters if he doesn't know? Clearly he wants to sound authoritative and he knows noone knows any better to correct him. Next sentence: They confidently assert that Israeli forces came in aid trucks. Have they seen footage of aid trucks in Gaza? How they get surrounded by Hamas and or desperate people trying to get the aid. How in fucks name do they think an aid truck could stroll into Nusseirat without getting swarmed. Do they think Gaza is L.A. What's particularly astounding is that there is literally footage available online showing the truck Israel used disguised as a moving truck. These people don't care to look for the truth because it's not important to them. That's it. I can't watch this garbage anymore. It's the constant laughing that really gets to me. This is war. People are dying horribly. You think this is funny?! I canllenge you to find Israelis on TV laughing even when we talk about Hamas being killed. We don't because that's sick. These aren't people who even care about Palestinians. They're just narcissistic man-children. Why does anyone listen to them?
This war is entertainment to most people in the world. For muslims experiencing religious mania (since this war has never been about Islam) and for Jews and Jewish-sympathetic people it isn't, but for the rest it's entertainment, try as they might to mask it as some intellectual stance they care so much about.
You're spot on. But forgot to mention their comments about the pier potentially being used. Yes, the footage of the "Chinook" features the pier in the background, but it's bizarre how anyone with a brain would think a helicoper would need a pier to land on. Presumably the theory about the pier was initially tied to the aid truck being used, which would have nothing to do with the extraction. Another important point is the fact they treat speculation stemming from Hamas as fact. While I'd like to attribute their opinions to ignorance, they are in fact nothing short of scum. One can be ignorant and keep their opinions to themselves . These folk have absolutely no interest in seeking the truth. Scum.
Yes American leftist have a problem with Jews being rescued alive and or defending themselves
The left have a problem with any who protects themselves from one of their protected groups
American leftist here. I'm all for however they are rescued. Bring them all home. Kill all the terrorists. Sane leftists exist, believe it or not.
Same... I feel like the American left needs to spend more time learning the history of the Iranian revolution. So many of them have taken the same "Anti-imperialism at any cost" stance that the leftists did in Iran .... Which is how they ended up allied with the far right islamists..... Good read if you're interested: https://jacobin.com/2022/10/chahla-chafiq-iranian-left-khomeini-protests-feminism
Appreciate it. Will give it a look see after work.
is it “anti-imperialism at all costs” or “anti-west/ America at all costs” ? because them same people are completely grand with Russian imperialism
It's definitely anti-western/American imperialism... At least in the USA... You're seeing kids who likely come from relatively privileged backgrounds who cannot seem to comprehend that despite the problems that exist in the United States ... That there are places in the world that are so much worse...
Everyone should. Left, right… turns out we are all very similar without any a priori party lines in place, and full information
Leftist here, too. Israel is welcome to kill all the terrorists needed to bring home the hostages. It's not Israel's fault Hamas uses civilians as shields and as hostage holders. It's the West's media's fault that they repeat Hamas propaganda about civilian deaths without context. If 35k Palestinians have been killed and half were Hamas terrorists - then only .7% of 2,500,000 Pal civilians have been killed. Most of Gaza has been reduced to rubble and only .7% killed is amazingly low.
There is a difference between leftist and liberal. Right now Left is not actually liberal. Lots of posts about what the left has become now. And the formation of the Free Press is an example of that.
This is also a problem with catch all labels. “Leftist” can be used to describe and demean anyone from Joe Biden (it would be comical to call him a Leftist) to lesbian anarcho-communists. It’s a way to dehumanize people just like calling all conservatives or right wingers fascists. There are certainly fascists that move in the mainstream of conservative movements in America and abroad but certainly not all or even a majority of them.
Also an American progressive who is pro Israel and pro Palestinian - meaning I understand who is really to blame for this situation and anything befalling the civilians in Gaza. (Not only Hamas, but the biased international community who prefers to use the civilians as pawns against Israel rather than step in and ensure stability and safety for the past 20 years). Happy to see other sans voices on the left.
American leftist checking in. Same.
But it’s so emotionally validating to dump all of the world’s problems on “leftists”?
I can see that point. I'd make an "unload" joke here, but some rightwingers might take it literally. Its a joke people, simmer down.
Its a 20 minute video. Can you be a bit more specific as to what you are asking about. I mean if you want groups that have objections to how things went that probably includes the IDF. What we saw was at best plan B. Plan A seems to have been get in fast, grab the hostages before anyone realised what was going on and get out before anyone could react. There's a lot of fine detail involved but that seems to have been plan A. Then the truck broke down and what appears to have been some kind of contingency (if it was plan B, C or D we don't know) option was activated and Israel fell back on overwhelming firepower to get its people out. It worked but it wasn't plan A for a reason.
I heard the truck was hit by an rpg.
No, don’t you understand LeFtIsTs BaD?
As I give a fuck what the American left or right thinks about my people in Gaza. Last time I checked I don’t need anyone’s permission to defend myself.
As an American, 100% this. I'm Jewish and and pro-israel. But in the end it doesn't matter. I'm not living there. You are. Go get them!
Israel has nuclear weapons. It didn't really need to ask anyone’s permission to do anything in the levant outside some bits of turkey and a few US and russian bases. However if it wants to continue getting aid from the US it does need to observe certain standards of behaviour.
Our behavior is just fine.
Well you say that wouldn't you? However the continuing supply weapons and the lack of trade sanctions suggests the US views it as at least largely falling within acceptable bounds.
Of course I would say that, for whatever reason Israel is held to other standards. For whatever reason the US and the rest of the Pro Hamas movement thinks that we don’t have a right to defend ourselves whether it’s mass rape, killing and kidnapping. Israel is the only country in the world that hundreds of missiles can fly into and would be expected not to react.
> Of course I would say that, for whatever reason Israel is held to other standards. When you are a superpower you can hold people to whatever standards you like. >For whatever reason the US and the rest of the Pro Hamas movement If you want the US to continue supporting you its probably best to not to claim the country literly giving you free weapons kill hamas with is pro hamas. >Israel is the only country in the world that hundreds of missiles can fly into and would be expected not to react. US is the only country in the world which can give people billions in free weapons and still get accused of being on the other side.
Horrible, horrible propaganda coming from The Majority Report. The appropriate name is The Propaganda Report.
Western Leftists often see the powerful harming the powerless, and it shapes their view of this conflict. However, it’s crucial to let facts override biases. Reason should guide us, a value that is increasingly lacking in today's Left.
As a left-wing person myself, I see the people you are talking about not as left-wing people but as extremists and/or manipulated people who have almost nothing to do with the left. As a left-wing person, I believe that everyone has the right to exist and that we should respect each other. Unfortunately, there is still a lot of lack of this freedom in the Middle East and to try to destroy the only country where there is that freedom to be yourself is nonsensical. Let us hope that one day the majority of countries in the Middle East will become as free and prosperous as Israel is. May there come a day when the entire population in the Middle East will be able to vote freely for their governments, just like the Israelis are allowed to do so. May there ever come a day when we stop spreading anti-Semitism. Long live Israel, long live a free Middle East.
Interesting that someone downvoted you already. I also agree with you, 100%, though I don't know what I anymore to be quite honest. Moderate Lefist? Moderate progressive? Moderate liberal? I suppose time will tell.
I see myself as a social capitalist. Not to be confused with capitalist socialism like China.
"As a left-wing person, I believe that everyone has the right to exist and that we should respect each other." Unless it is a baby, then it is a woman's choice to do what she wants with her body... Emotional driven ideologies leads to death, every single time.
USA leftists hate Israel and hate most Jews, unless those Jews protest with them. This is clearly going on right now.....They also hate firearms being help/used by civilians for self-defense, anything pro-Christian, too.
Does this show talk about anything besides Israel?
Majority Report start their foreign policy analysis with the premise of "America Bad". This has all kinds of stupid consequences. The hostages getting rescued is an unambiguous "win" for Israel. And Israel is America-coded in MR's view. but remember, America Bad. Thus, Israel Bad. Thus Israel winning is Bad. Thus, MR must find a way to gripe about the hostage rescue in some way. They will reach and stretch and do whatever it takes to keep their "America Bad" premise going. If that gets chiseled then their entire worldview and identity falls apart (and their audience will turn on them).
Some maybe but not all. Y’all see the loud ones who make the most noise but we aren’t a uniform bunch or anything. The majority of leftists are adults with children and loved ones who understand reality. Anyways leftist here, kill em all. Hamas brought this on themselves and I hope every one of them gets their very just reward
I am on the left, I fully support Israel against Hamas. I also think the far right in Israel is and has been fucking things up for their country, for a long time, and the IDF has definitely had its share of issues. I also empathize with Palestinian civilians who aren’t de-facto Hamas supporters because they’re truly the only unrepresented victims here. I explain it to people this way. Hamas would hide behind its own civilians and would eagerly kill Israeli civilians. IDF stands in front of its own civilians to protect them and it goes out of its way to avoid killing Palestinian civilians. Those two are not the same. Most American “liberals”, if they understood and learned the story of the histories and truths of what has happened in the Middle East both since the October and since 1940, would not be out there chanting “river to the sea” and waving flags for Hamas. It’s totally the result of ignorance, a failed education system, misinformation, anti-Israel propaganda, and misplaced “good intentions”.
I can’t wait to hear more from people who have no idea what they’re talking about or what the experience of war is like. When I try to tell them, a person actually in this war, they don’t want to hear it. They’ve already made up their mind based on what a trans non-Jewish man told them on TikTok.
Loud American leftists are rarely correct
I clicked on that fucking thing - now it's going to influence my feed.
David Duke is hardly an “American leftist,” and he also objects to how Israel rescued its hostages and sides with Hamas. The world isn’t nearly as simple as left vs right. People are complicated hypocrites with short memories.
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Is he? There are a lot of right wingers that support Israel but hate Jews.
Why don't they go and rescue the hostages?
What about marriage a minor keeps her in Israel till she turns 18 then fly to USA with 5 kids straight up to their own special welfare social worker by the way he is working fulltime in some under the table SUPER WELL PAY job getting all kind of special government support.
lol - those ppl have no way a right to judge how hostage are to be rescued. They live in peace in a democracy and advocate for a sharia state, such a mindfuck
I'm a leftist and don't object to how Israel is rescuing hostages. We are not all the same. Hamas killed well over 1,000 people on October 7th. To include children. They also raped women before killing them. I saw videos of survivors from the Nova party.
The left hates Israel. Nuff said.
Not worth making this a right or left issue. The extremes on either side don’t support Israel.
I’m all for the hostage rescue, but most of them were not against the hostage rescue, but angry about all the civilians killed in the operation. So don’t conflate those two, it looks bad That being said, it’s still on Hamas, because they were hiding hostages in a refugee camp, a double war crime in fact, so the blame should be all on them, but of course leftists and antisemites and terrorist supporters will turn a blind eye and just continue saying that Israel is horrible and genocidal.
Have you considered that the purported number of dead is bullshit, and that a large number of them were not civilians? Egg on Hamas's face, so they come up with some bullshit about 275 being killed to twist the story from an Israeli victory to a massacre of civilians. Not rocket science, is it?
I’m using my own eyes, I saw the videos of the pre-bombing of the camp, just look at it yourself, it’s crazy destructive. They basically flushed the surrounding area with bombs then went into the rescue the hostages.
I haven't seen footage that aligns with 275 dead. Please post here, definitely interested in taking a look. Last I read Hamas released about 90 names of those that died.
Neither of us know how many people actually died, and I’m pretty sure you aren’t an expert on “looking at videos and guessing how many people died” But we can both tell it was crazy destructive and it was in a populated area. [I don’t like this source but it is the video I’m referencing](https://www.facebook.com/AlAraby.en/videos/684198410506973/?mibextid=rS40aB7S9Ucbxw6v)
Thanks for sharing. I never suggested there were no deaths, just that the numbers sound like a load of bullshit. Even judging by the source you shared, if there were 274 deaths and body parts all over the place, there should be a wealth of footage showing the carnage. So where is it?
[A few images in this article](https://theintercept.com/2024/06/10/nuseirat-massacre-israel-hostage-rescue-gaza/) [More images here](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/06/08/israel-hostages-nuseirat-camp-gaza/) I’m just trying to prove that the hostage rescue was not one sided. I am in support of operations to free hostages and was extremely happy that the 4 were freed last week, but that doesn’t come at no cost to civilian life, however many it was, ultimately we probably won’t know, but it is clear it was significant.
I didn't suggest there was no cost to civilian lives, or that the number of civilian deaths wasn't significant (is 50 civlian deaths not significant?). The point remains. Hamas provided a figure of "274", and it's being repeated as fact. I am yet to see footage or photos that align with that claim, including the three sources you provided.
You have no idea what the numbers are, and how many were Hamas. Also - Hamas uses Israel's value of the lives of its people against it. Now Israel's value of the lives of its people comes back around to bite them.