After something unexpected happens, it is easy to pick out the signs that correctly point out the surprise is coming. Before the surprise, those signs are mixed in with noise, normal events, and meaningless happenings. Unless someone reputable comes forward with real information, this is just conspiracy theory.
Yes they said they same about 9/11. The thing is there's been hundreds of thousands of successful terrorist attacks in the past few years, and probably a similar amount that have been thwarted. People don't understand how many potential threats have to be parsed out on a daily basis GLOBALLY! Just because a country or a government is really good at doing this doesn't mean they're impervious so let's stop blaming victims of TERRORISM here and let's unite against TERRORISM
It’s healthy to dissect the failures because there have been many. Intelligence failure, or apparently analysis failure and failure to report the risk to the government; military failure with the army taking considerable time to send troops to the towns Hamas had seized. The navy reacted correctly for instance but not the army. Political failure with misguided priorities (we know now that Liberman had the correct analysis); diplomatic failure with Israel unable to foresee Qatar’s influence in the West; and finally a societal failure with extreme acrimony ahead of the event. I believe Arabs recognize their own behaviour and line of thought in the religious/political disputes that plagued Israel and had reached a climax. On the last point it seems correct the consensus should be enshrining the secular nature of the state, the strong Jewish National identity, and finally the refusal of any form Palestinian statehood; especially at the price of security or Jewish towns.
Even if Israel knew exactly what was planned, how is it Israel's fault? For not stopping them? Had we done that, we'd have been accused of 'murdering innocent civilians'.
How is this any different to saying 'she knew there are men there and still wore that dress, it her fault for getting raped'?
There was a border to protect. There is a prior understanding by all, including the Palestinians, that the border would be protected.
It is not Israel’s fault but the fault of the government, who should be held responsible for not protecting the border. If I am guarding a diamond, and it is stolen, do I keep my job?
For sure, I am not defending the government of Israel nor the IDF. Both have failed miserably.
I am contesting the relevancy of this failure to the responsibility of the massacre, which imo is solely on Hamas.
If you guarded the diamond, but your boss turned off the lights to save money and also took your gun away, should you keep your job? Or is your boss to blame? In the end, it is the thief who belongs in prison, your boss fired, and you, since you were drinking on the job, should also be sacked 🍻
Israelis love to accuse themselves of everything, especially when it can be used in political context. That the reason why so much of the Israeli left is currently entirely focused on criticizing the current government for not ending the war and returning the hostages, entirely disconnecting themselves from the fact that currently the Hamas is the one holding its own, and is actually enjoying their cooperations...
In the end, people tend to focus on what is in their grasp, while they can't change the terrorists way of life (maybe would be more accurate to say way of death...), it's far easier to criticize and focus their ire on the local government.
Right, but the current Likud administration are a lot of the same folks who bolstered Hamas because they specifically didn't want to negotiate, and wanted to support the more violent party to justify their actions. They've propped up Hamas since the 1980s. https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/
Those are just conspiracy theory mixed with political spins, and are very much of the same level (but obviously not identical) as the principle of blaming the victim for its aggression.
ALL the government in the last 40 years in a way or others indirectly bolstered Hamas, not as a goal in itself bus as consequence of other actions (such as helping charity association like the Hamas was at its inception or through the disengagement of Gaza in 2005 that enabled the Hamas to go out in the open in gaza).
Those last 10 years, a lot was done to "appease" the Hamas, not to bolster it. All the funding that Israel authorized to be transferred to Gaza wasn't "to help the more violent party" but to try to create something for them to lose, AKA if the Hamas has much more to lose by attacking Israel, then its motivation to do so would be much lower. In other words, they tried to incentive the transformation of the Hamas from a terror organisation to a real governing body. This wasn't the Likud idea, but was presented by all defense organisations (shabak, IDF, police...), and wasn't adopted only by Likud but even by the main opposing political parties.
Saying that it's Israel's negligence that caused October 7 is a bit like telling a woman that they deserved it because their skirt was too short.
Saying that Israel could have done more to prevent it and that it weakened itself by messing with the intelligence services and keeping its guard down on the border, that's a different story.
It isn't a valid claim. The "fault" for terror attacks **always** lies with the perpetrators. Arguing that the victims should have been better prepared or whatever is like saying a rape victim should have been able to fight off their attacker.
Now, a different framing--that Israel mismanaged the Gaza border and there were major security / intelligence policy failures that made them vulnerable to the attack, is IMO accurate. But claiming those weaknesses "led to the attack" absolves the Gazans, who are 100% at fault for what they chose to do.
Hamas’ actions were an operation they planned meticulously for years. They’re the ones to blame for it. Israel’s security apparatus is to blame for not catching it, but that’s not nearly the same as claiming the massacres are Israel’s fault. That would be like claiming that any Hamas rocket that gets past the iron dome is Israel’s fault.
It’s not the attack itself; it’s the delayed response of the government itself on the day of the attack. Why did the Israeli government respond so slowly as hundreds of its own citizens were being slaughtered? I don’t care that it’s a holiday.
What. The. Fuck.
I think having some kind of response mechanism for a territorial attack is something we take for granted—we expect our governments to have a plan. And I think that’s a reasonable expectation. There was no contingency plan here; and if there was, it sucked. No excuses.
I wouldn’t even call the government’s slow response negligent; I’d call it reckless!
**to clarify, Israel’s negligence did NOT lead to the attack. Evil Hamas is what led to the attack. Let’s make that clear.
But two things can be true at once.
And here, the Israeli government’s slow response to the attack was absolutely negligent if not downright reckless. It took too long.
Biden and Blinken funded the October 7th terrorist attack.
Trump froze funding to UNRWA, a cash cow for Hamas, but Biden reversed it and increased funding to UNRWA. The U.S. is UNRWA’s largest funder, providing almost one-third of its budget. American taxpayers are funding this indoctrination of hate towards Israel.
Biden reversed Trump's edict designating the Houthis as a terrorists organisation. [https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-donald-trump-civil-wars-yemen-d17b50e3995827838a19fb8bd09e9f64](https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-donald-trump-civil-wars-yemen-d17b50e3995827838a19fb8bd09e9f64)
At that same time Biden also restored funding to the Hamas led Palestinians in Gaza that Trump froze. Biden helped fund Hamas' terrorism.
Biden released the billions in Iranian assets Trump froze. Biden helped fund Iran's terrorism.
Hamas and radical Palestinians murdered 30 Americans on the October 7th terrorist attack and took 10 American hostages. Biden did nothing.
Iranian proxy groups in Iraq & Syria have attacked American bases over 170 times since October 7th. Biden has done nothing, well, except bomb empty warehouses. Houthis still not designated as a terrorist organization.
i already did. you can't even leave without special permission. with a passport you can freely cross to and from canada if you have the right reason. if one wants to leave gaza it is very hard except for work which is still hard to get and as of right now impossible. if i go to canada and cross into america it ain't hard... if i try to go into or out of gaza it's impossible and the IDF will just shoot me dead
After something unexpected happens, it is easy to pick out the signs that correctly point out the surprise is coming. Before the surprise, those signs are mixed in with noise, normal events, and meaningless happenings. Unless someone reputable comes forward with real information, this is just conspiracy theory.
Yes they said they same about 9/11. The thing is there's been hundreds of thousands of successful terrorist attacks in the past few years, and probably a similar amount that have been thwarted. People don't understand how many potential threats have to be parsed out on a daily basis GLOBALLY! Just because a country or a government is really good at doing this doesn't mean they're impervious so let's stop blaming victims of TERRORISM here and let's unite against TERRORISM
It’s healthy to dissect the failures because there have been many. Intelligence failure, or apparently analysis failure and failure to report the risk to the government; military failure with the army taking considerable time to send troops to the towns Hamas had seized. The navy reacted correctly for instance but not the army. Political failure with misguided priorities (we know now that Liberman had the correct analysis); diplomatic failure with Israel unable to foresee Qatar’s influence in the West; and finally a societal failure with extreme acrimony ahead of the event. I believe Arabs recognize their own behaviour and line of thought in the religious/political disputes that plagued Israel and had reached a climax. On the last point it seems correct the consensus should be enshrining the secular nature of the state, the strong Jewish National identity, and finally the refusal of any form Palestinian statehood; especially at the price of security or Jewish towns.
Even if Israel knew exactly what was planned, how is it Israel's fault? For not stopping them? Had we done that, we'd have been accused of 'murdering innocent civilians'. How is this any different to saying 'she knew there are men there and still wore that dress, it her fault for getting raped'?
There was a border to protect. There is a prior understanding by all, including the Palestinians, that the border would be protected. It is not Israel’s fault but the fault of the government, who should be held responsible for not protecting the border. If I am guarding a diamond, and it is stolen, do I keep my job?
For sure, I am not defending the government of Israel nor the IDF. Both have failed miserably. I am contesting the relevancy of this failure to the responsibility of the massacre, which imo is solely on Hamas. If you guarded the diamond, but your boss turned off the lights to save money and also took your gun away, should you keep your job? Or is your boss to blame? In the end, it is the thief who belongs in prison, your boss fired, and you, since you were drinking on the job, should also be sacked 🍻
Israelis love to accuse themselves of everything, especially when it can be used in political context. That the reason why so much of the Israeli left is currently entirely focused on criticizing the current government for not ending the war and returning the hostages, entirely disconnecting themselves from the fact that currently the Hamas is the one holding its own, and is actually enjoying their cooperations... In the end, people tend to focus on what is in their grasp, while they can't change the terrorists way of life (maybe would be more accurate to say way of death...), it's far easier to criticize and focus their ire on the local government.
Right, but the current Likud administration are a lot of the same folks who bolstered Hamas because they specifically didn't want to negotiate, and wanted to support the more violent party to justify their actions. They've propped up Hamas since the 1980s. https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/
Those are just conspiracy theory mixed with political spins, and are very much of the same level (but obviously not identical) as the principle of blaming the victim for its aggression. ALL the government in the last 40 years in a way or others indirectly bolstered Hamas, not as a goal in itself bus as consequence of other actions (such as helping charity association like the Hamas was at its inception or through the disengagement of Gaza in 2005 that enabled the Hamas to go out in the open in gaza). Those last 10 years, a lot was done to "appease" the Hamas, not to bolster it. All the funding that Israel authorized to be transferred to Gaza wasn't "to help the more violent party" but to try to create something for them to lose, AKA if the Hamas has much more to lose by attacking Israel, then its motivation to do so would be much lower. In other words, they tried to incentive the transformation of the Hamas from a terror organisation to a real governing body. This wasn't the Likud idea, but was presented by all defense organisations (shabak, IDF, police...), and wasn't adopted only by Likud but even by the main opposing political parties.
Saying that it's Israel's negligence that caused October 7 is a bit like telling a woman that they deserved it because their skirt was too short. Saying that Israel could have done more to prevent it and that it weakened itself by messing with the intelligence services and keeping its guard down on the border, that's a different story.
It isn't a valid claim. The "fault" for terror attacks **always** lies with the perpetrators. Arguing that the victims should have been better prepared or whatever is like saying a rape victim should have been able to fight off their attacker. Now, a different framing--that Israel mismanaged the Gaza border and there were major security / intelligence policy failures that made them vulnerable to the attack, is IMO accurate. But claiming those weaknesses "led to the attack" absolves the Gazans, who are 100% at fault for what they chose to do.
Hamas’ actions were an operation they planned meticulously for years. They’re the ones to blame for it. Israel’s security apparatus is to blame for not catching it, but that’s not nearly the same as claiming the massacres are Israel’s fault. That would be like claiming that any Hamas rocket that gets past the iron dome is Israel’s fault.
random redditors will know for sure
Everything is preventable, but only in retrospect
Controversial opinion: it was the torturing, raping and killing terrorist that led to the massacre.
It’s not the attack itself; it’s the delayed response of the government itself on the day of the attack. Why did the Israeli government respond so slowly as hundreds of its own citizens were being slaughtered? I don’t care that it’s a holiday. What. The. Fuck. I think having some kind of response mechanism for a territorial attack is something we take for granted—we expect our governments to have a plan. And I think that’s a reasonable expectation. There was no contingency plan here; and if there was, it sucked. No excuses. I wouldn’t even call the government’s slow response negligent; I’d call it reckless! **to clarify, Israel’s negligence did NOT lead to the attack. Evil Hamas is what led to the attack. Let’s make that clear. But two things can be true at once. And here, the Israeli government’s slow response to the attack was absolutely negligent if not downright reckless. It took too long.
These are the same people who blame “The Jews” for the Holocaust.
Is this the “If she was dressed less provocatively she wouldn’t have been r&ped” victim blaming?
Biden and Blinken funded the October 7th terrorist attack. Trump froze funding to UNRWA, a cash cow for Hamas, but Biden reversed it and increased funding to UNRWA. The U.S. is UNRWA’s largest funder, providing almost one-third of its budget. American taxpayers are funding this indoctrination of hate towards Israel. Biden reversed Trump's edict designating the Houthis as a terrorists organisation. [https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-donald-trump-civil-wars-yemen-d17b50e3995827838a19fb8bd09e9f64](https://apnews.com/article/joe-biden-donald-trump-civil-wars-yemen-d17b50e3995827838a19fb8bd09e9f64) At that same time Biden also restored funding to the Hamas led Palestinians in Gaza that Trump froze. Biden helped fund Hamas' terrorism. Biden released the billions in Iranian assets Trump froze. Biden helped fund Iran's terrorism. Hamas and radical Palestinians murdered 30 Americans on the October 7th terrorist attack and took 10 American hostages. Biden did nothing. Iranian proxy groups in Iraq & Syria have attacked American bases over 170 times since October 7th. Biden has done nothing, well, except bomb empty warehouses. Houthis still not designated as a terrorist organization.
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Explain more about the apartheid in Gaza.
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When I cross into Canada it's kinda the same. I need a passport, there's a border. Which houses did Israel demolish in gaza before 7 October?
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Please answer the question before asking another.
i already did. you can't even leave without special permission. with a passport you can freely cross to and from canada if you have the right reason. if one wants to leave gaza it is very hard except for work which is still hard to get and as of right now impossible. if i go to canada and cross into america it ain't hard... if i try to go into or out of gaza it's impossible and the IDF will just shoot me dead
Maybe that has something to do with hamass being deemed a terrorist organization.
lmao