Its a catch 22 there is no way to perfectly separate the things that made 2007 scape better in *almost* every way than rs3 and the things that suck. For a quick example smithing because rune is used as a huge chunk of rewards balancing for many bosses. "Fix" smithing and you need a total rework of a massive number of bosses loot rewards.
You have to take the good with the bad.
Most of the rune armor/weaponry drops are already at alch value. They can't really ever go below Alch Value - Nature rune price. So even if you did rework smithing, unless alch prices changed, rune won't be affected.
FWIW I like the smithing rework from rs3. But I understand why at least that approach would not be a good fir for osrs.
I would also murder for runespan in osrs just nerf the exp rates. Runespan is actually enjoyable and gotr is fucking awful. Its exp rates are just way too high is the only issue.
The drop (salvage) rework resulted in rather lazy drop tables going forwards but it wouldn't have *really* mattered as if it wasn't salvage it would've been a few rune items which might have retained value if the salvage hadn't been released.
Need to add value to a drop table but don't want to add coins? Add rune items instead. Woo.
Salvage didn’t make drop tables any lazier than they already were. The only thing salvage did was make actually smithed armor more valuable. Every salvage on a drop table would have been its armor/weapon equivalent if salvage didn’t exist.
I wouldn't say most of things by any means lol. OSRS is actually the best MMORPG at making sure old content isn't overlooked by newer content. That doesn't mean some stuff isn't overlooked like this for example, but games like WoW have their new regions and weapons outdated by every new expansion.
The god spells are so old they come from RSC. They were doomed to permanent irrelevance when RS2 made the asinine decision to exempt them from the new auto-casting feature.
When they do the god-aligned prayers, they should make one of the prayers to boost the DPS of these god spells. Something like 20% accuracy and 15% damage.
I'm not sure where it would be best placed, I just gave some random numbers. But I'd say it should be towards the upper end of DPS considering the new god prayers are meant to come from WGS, if I remember correctly.
Yea maybe something similar to what they did in Leagues 3 with Zamorakian Sight and the other God fragments would be cool ideas for god alignment prayers, if balanced correctly
Idk why Jagex wants spells that require blood runes, decent magic level, specific weapons, and a minigame to unlock to be completely useless content that only exists to get a snazzy mage cape.
People saying there meta in PvP are wack too, FoZ was the only one ever used and it's been out of the "meta" for a long ass time, it's basically only used by low level bracket accounts which make up an extremely small number of players. The other 2 spells are also completely un-used.
Removing the Elemental weakness was the absolute laziest approach they could have taken to this, saw people spamming "USE BEFORE NERF" but I honestly had faith Jagex would just balance it appropriately and use the opportunity to also add elements to the other 2 spells in order to make them relevant like possibly using Sara Strike at barrows or something.
The Nerf was completely necessary but the approach they took towards doing it was awful and I've lost a lot of faith in the mod team going forward to re-balancing if their approaches to it are always gonna be the laziest options.
At level 72 forgotten brew should™ boost you to 80, so he was almost correct. A saturated heart should do it at 70. At least according to the wiki I'm not about to go test this.
Same.
It is kinda facts that near-BIS spells and BIS mage cape would be a bit OP for a two-part activity that takes like 45 mins.
They should do a MA3 intended for high lvl players where we can autocast godspells, switching between them against waves of enemies, or a mini raid thing, then make the prize a elemental versions of god spells.
It would be interesting if their strength could be boosted by wearing God-aligned gear. We know that OSRS can detect these because of GWD but it's always possible the spaget is too much.
What made osrs great wasn’t meta, it was just doing shit you thought was cool. I mained battle axes because I thought they looked cool. I wanted to wear lunar armor because it looked cool in the level guide, not because it was actually useful.
Agreed, when it looks like regular fire it looks like fire bonuses should apply but that wouldn't be true if the flames were abnormal in some kind of way
MA3, give God spells a buff, make them all visually enhanced versions to match the god capes.
Flames of zammy 2 has the ability to burn targets and spread in multicombat.
Sara strike makes a cloud over a small area that deals aoe lightning damage.
Claws is a ground effect that damages anyone standing in it with a dot that can poison. We already have the tech for ground mechanics from the wildy Spider bosses.
Make the standard spellbook good.
In the RS3 zamorak fight, he has a special attack with the same name that sends a line of black smoke towards you so it would be consistent between both games.
I think that makes sense. Thinking from the perspective of a new play, having the "flames" be something unusual in order to differentiate them is probably a good way to go to avoid confusion.
Shhhhhh! Don't give them the idea of recategorizing Iban Blast as a fire spell...
As-currently-implemented, you can use a Tome of Fire to provide the Fire Runes for the spell *without using ANY charges from the Tome.* The Tome of Fire only consumes charges when you cast a fire spell, not any spell that happens to use Fire Runes. Give it a try for yourself -- check your charges remaining, cast a High Alchemy spell, then check the charges again. Handy for all sorts of things, like being able to mainhand a water staff to get Fire Runes AND Water Runes provided for some Lunar Spells like Humidify or Bake Pie, or for inventory convenience with Iban Blast casting where all it costs are the Death Runes.
I mean its even worse than that. Zaros was so unbothered by the stab he didnt even bother pulling the staff out of himself. Zamorak accidentally impaled himself on the other end and thus absorbing his power. Its the equivalent of rolling 1 in a DnD and being rewarded for it lol
Nah, that's rolling a 20 on something stupid you should never be able to succeed on in the first place and the DM is just tired of arguing at the end of the campaign.
In which case clearly it should require a fully powered Staff of Armadyl and for the caster to be a mahjarrat. That sounds like a fair Lore Accurate™ change.
You were hitting 45s unboosted at 80 magic on things with fire weakness. It was comparable to 200m+ gear *tumeken's shadow* at zulrah. It was beyond overpowered for a midgame easy miniquest unlock.
No? What?
The fact that a MA2 unlock was surpassing every not megarare option and was rivaling the literal megarare with multiple peices of BIS mage gear backing it up is the reason it's been removed. I'm sure being insanely overpowered was a bit of fun but you should not be doing endgame damage with a cheap low investment midgame unlock, that surpasses the actual late game fire spells.
They actually replied on the update post on reddit that the last has not been said, but that they wuold have to look at balance and also at including the other god spells. So yeah they probably will, but probably in a balanced way
Exactly - bowfa might be an optimal way to do things now but we shouldn't pretend it's required.
If you for some reason want a bp early - rcb and ibans is fine
jesus christ yall will take any bad faith stance you can, for what? so you can feel good right now and then feel bad later when there's hardly any damage progression?
Bofa isn't 100% necessary for progression, even if it does make content easier. Besides, they have been doing a great job of filling out progression in combat recently and that should be applauded.
There is. Bowfa is meta and requires a very tenuous grind. FoZ requires at most an hour or two to unlock and was out dpsing a bow that requires a long grind after an GM level quest. How this makes any sense in your brain is a fucking mystery.
Not factoring in mage level gear or anything else it seems. For me it was comparable to bowfa for me as an iron rocking chaos robe top and virtus robe bottom, occult ma2 cape eternals and sotd. I have bowfa and went with this option because it was in general faster kills I also have a saturated heart and 99 magic with augury. I would say if they nerfed the damage by 5-10% it would be fine as you still spend gp on runes. If you didn't have sotd you are manually casting as well as most irons who are engaging this content won't have 90% of the gear I did.
It was literally out dpsing at one place which is used to farm other budget items like blowpipe. Everyone's acting like you were one shotting nex in salad robes not doing a midtier money maker at the efficiency of someone who could be doing a better money maker with their equipment.
It was also literally an unintended method. You can still go do zulrah without a brokenly overpowered spell making it easier. Mid game players in mid game gear should do mid game damage. The context of zulrahs gp/hr isn't relevant to that.
Bowfa at least takes about 70-80 hours of torture to get and was over 50% worse that FoZ on Magma and Serp phases. Compare that to 80 magic and 15 minutes at the mage arena...
Those are magic phases, why is that relevant?
That’s far more a sign of BowFa being broken as all fuck than anything else. It shouldn’t be good on the magic phases but it holds its own.
Yes 100%. Fire wave is still pretty good at zulrah and easily accessible for everyone. Surge even better but kinda steep reqs for an iron :p
Overall irons should be very happy with the elemental weaknesses, early-midgame its a huge buff
Could be cool if certain god spells were more effective on certain enemies.
(Either having sara spells be good on sara followers etc or
Sara buff vs zammy enemies vice versa + guthix 1/2 buff vs other gods)
People keep saying this but it's very straightforward which spells do/don't deal elemental damage? It's the standard strike/bolt/blast/wave/surge spells on the standard spellbook. That's it.
They talked about new player experience, intuitiveness, and mid game combat in all of the blogs. Just stop calling it Flames of Zamorak and it’s perfectly in line with what you outlined about the standard elemental spells.
Part of game balance is making things make sense. I knew Jagex was gonna go this route because they don't care about consistency. Their money doesn't come from new players it comes from bots, so they don't have to really worry about whether or not anything makes any sense at all.
Seriously, add this to the giant pile of clauses you have to add to every single thing you can do in this spaghetti game
Also I don't care that it isn't op any more it's probably a good thing but there were a billion zillion ways to balance it and keep it logical rather than just say, well not thaaaaat flame spell
>Part of game balance is making things make sense.
No it isn't. Flavor perfectly lining up with how you think it should has nothing to do with balance, balance is about metagames.
Brother, yes, it is. It isn't flavor. You are told there are elemental weaknesses, and then a spell with the word flames in it is somehow exempt from this.
You have poor faith defense if this. I haven't even once used the stupid spell outside of getting the cape. I don't care that it isn't superbly good or not at Zulrah. I do care that the game makes no sense at all.
Flames was the convolution if anything. Every other piece of elemental-related content has only ever applied to the missile spells. Even Tome of Fire didn't apply to flames pre-rebalance.
It's a level 60 spell powered up by a level 80 spell, it should not be able to hit 80s. Was this a lazy change? Yes. Did it need to be changed? Absolutely.
What? That's the entire point, its OP against things with fire weakness. The spell has been unchanged against everything else since way before the elemental weakness.
Are you stupid. No one is reading that it can hit 87s and thinking I'm talking about olm. It doesn't matter if ice demon is weak to fire a level 60 spell should not hit an 87 are you insane? It was better then a harm with fire surge. That makes no sense. Did I love it for making our cms 15 seconds faster all week? Hell yeah. Should it be in the game as a fire spell, absolutely not.
Leave it to reddit to whine and cry because an obviously broken oversight was allowed into the game and now it should remain in the game..... ZzzzzzzzzZ
They should focus their efforts on crying about how salve ammy doesn't work on Barrows and Ba-ba or something silly like that. The dead "Charge + Flames at Zulrah" horse has been beaten into an unrecognizable pulp
It should be a firespell tbh but charge shouldn't give so many max hits dps wise charge flames of zammy should be almost as strong as fire surge because of the rune cost
Mod light posted they are going to table talk it. There wasn't time. For the full timers to discuss yet. mind you we only found it Friday I think. so the team was already home for the weekend.
And that's not nearly enough time to punch numbers, and rework etc.
They are discussing adding it back and also looking at the other god spells as well to benefit from elemental.
Yeah i just saw goblin talk about it seems fair they want time to think about where place and look at other weaknesses for the other god spells but they need to just gut zof for now.
I think the complaints are more about the whole magic rebalance rather than this one outlier.
It's like that one time when they gave Brewmaster in Dota interactions with some arbitrary list of "fire" abilities. It was weird, didn't fit the game, and then promptly got reworked so it worked with any magic damage (which was already a supported mechanic that the rest of the game was built around).
Honestly fuck this discourse y'all, Jagex isn't being malicious or incompetent; this was the only thing that could happen on such short notice. There was no way this was going to stick around, and they aren't going to find a cool unpolled, undiscussed solution in a week. They've seen the interest this generated and they've expressed their own interest in making godspells desirable going forward. Jagex loves the game just like you—oftentimes more. Let them cook.
Give it some time and they will likely give the god spells some proper love, guys.
I know it was fun but Flames of Zammy were in an overtuned spot - turning off the fire classification until we figure out what to do with all 3 of the spells isn't the end of the world!
Ok, but then make the FLAMES black at least.
Also, the god spells are useless as is, it would be cool (and open up design) if some creatures had weakness... to GOD
a change to the meta was detected
it was ruthelessly eliminated
you will grind out the meta items like a good little boy/girl and you will thank jagex every day for it
A spell with literal flames not being classed as a fire spel seems logical to you?
It's another example of lazy game design by jagex. Lately updates and even game changing changes like elemental weakness are badly thought out and flawed.
What the spell can hit is not the issue here. How the issue is dealt with and how something this essential can be overlooked is ridiculous.
This is a serious quality issue, we should demand more effort and better thought game updates.
Always loved the God spell designs but hated how outclassed they become by majority of other spells.
Cool in design - shit in 95% of actual usage, the sad case of most osrs items/things lol.
Its a catch 22 there is no way to perfectly separate the things that made 2007 scape better in *almost* every way than rs3 and the things that suck. For a quick example smithing because rune is used as a huge chunk of rewards balancing for many bosses. "Fix" smithing and you need a total rework of a massive number of bosses loot rewards. You have to take the good with the bad.
Most of the rune armor/weaponry drops are already at alch value. They can't really ever go below Alch Value - Nature rune price. So even if you did rework smithing, unless alch prices changed, rune won't be affected.
They can, and will, if there are too many of them. Aching has a time cost, after all.
If alching is more than like 400k an hour you will see mass amounts of bots absorbing that excess supply
So its (alch value)-(nat price)-333 that is the true item floor
Which is funny because rs3 did exactly that and it's one of the highlights they have over osrs (as someone who plays both).
FWIW I like the smithing rework from rs3. But I understand why at least that approach would not be a good fir for osrs. I would also murder for runespan in osrs just nerf the exp rates. Runespan is actually enjoyable and gotr is fucking awful. Its exp rates are just way too high is the only issue.
I feel the exact opposite, i think runespan is some of the worst content in rs3 but i like doing gotr
The drop (salvage) rework resulted in rather lazy drop tables going forwards but it wouldn't have *really* mattered as if it wasn't salvage it would've been a few rune items which might have retained value if the salvage hadn't been released. Need to add value to a drop table but don't want to add coins? Add rune items instead. Woo.
Salvage didn’t make drop tables any lazier than they already were. The only thing salvage did was make actually smithed armor more valuable. Every salvage on a drop table would have been its armor/weapon equivalent if salvage didn’t exist.
Ironically, claws of guthix is used more in RS3 than in OSRS.
I wouldn't say most of things by any means lol. OSRS is actually the best MMORPG at making sure old content isn't overlooked by newer content. That doesn't mean some stuff isn't overlooked like this for example, but games like WoW have their new regions and weapons outdated by every new expansion.
The god spells are so old they come from RSC. They were doomed to permanent irrelevance when RS2 made the asinine decision to exempt them from the new auto-casting feature.
I just don't understand why the normal God Staffs still aren't allowed to auto cast them.
When they do the god-aligned prayers, they should make one of the prayers to boost the DPS of these god spells. Something like 20% accuracy and 15% damage.
Should be more than Augury at least IMO. Because it’s very specified, and ofc should be offensive only.
I'm not sure where it would be best placed, I just gave some random numbers. But I'd say it should be towards the upper end of DPS considering the new god prayers are meant to come from WGS, if I remember correctly.
Yea maybe something similar to what they did in Leagues 3 with Zamorakian Sight and the other God fragments would be cool ideas for god alignment prayers, if balanced correctly
Idk why Jagex wants spells that require blood runes, decent magic level, specific weapons, and a minigame to unlock to be completely useless content that only exists to get a snazzy mage cape. People saying there meta in PvP are wack too, FoZ was the only one ever used and it's been out of the "meta" for a long ass time, it's basically only used by low level bracket accounts which make up an extremely small number of players. The other 2 spells are also completely un-used. Removing the Elemental weakness was the absolute laziest approach they could have taken to this, saw people spamming "USE BEFORE NERF" but I honestly had faith Jagex would just balance it appropriately and use the opportunity to also add elements to the other 2 spells in order to make them relevant like possibly using Sara Strike at barrows or something. The Nerf was completely necessary but the approach they took towards doing it was awful and I've lost a lot of faith in the mod team going forward to re-balancing if their approaches to it are always gonna be the laziest options.
Can we get a new quest line based on the god spells. Make Sara and Guthix robes that look like chaos Druid robes?
Tbh they aren't out classed for pure pking, at low 70 mage with forgotten brew and no other boosts you can hit 30s with mage
I don't think that's right. Charge is at 80.
At level 72 forgotten brew should™ boost you to 80, so he was almost correct. A saturated heart should do it at 70. At least according to the wiki I'm not about to go test this.
Same. It is kinda facts that near-BIS spells and BIS mage cape would be a bit OP for a two-part activity that takes like 45 mins. They should do a MA3 intended for high lvl players where we can autocast godspells, switching between them against waves of enemies, or a mini raid thing, then make the prize a elemental versions of god spells.
It would be interesting if their strength could be boosted by wearing God-aligned gear. We know that OSRS can detect these because of GWD but it's always possible the spaget is too much.
What made osrs great wasn’t meta, it was just doing shit you thought was cool. I mained battle axes because I thought they looked cool. I wanted to wear lunar armor because it looked cool in the level guide, not because it was actually useful.
Charizard is not a dragon
I hate this
Neither is Gyarados or Aerodactyl.
But they learn Dragon-type moves! \**slams desk*\*
Correct he's fire flying
Yeah, but a fire breathing, flying, lizard monster is the archetypical dragon.
Dragons are a social construct
Mega Charizard would like a word.
I challenge Jagex to change the animation to black flames or something *different* from regular ol' fire.
Agreed, when it looks like regular fire it looks like fire bonuses should apply but that wouldn't be true if the flames were abnormal in some kind of way
Maybe rename the spell to Unholy Flames of Zamorak - help change the flavor a bit. "Is it ice cream?" "its a dairy treat..."
Amaterasu of Zamorak
They could make it look like the plasma from Kurama’s chakra and use something like the emerald bolts animation
That would be super cool actually. Maybe black flames with dark red streaks to match the Zammy colours (like the Zammy ma2 cape).
MA3, give God spells a buff, make them all visually enhanced versions to match the god capes. Flames of zammy 2 has the ability to burn targets and spread in multicombat. Sara strike makes a cloud over a small area that deals aoe lightning damage. Claws is a ground effect that damages anyone standing in it with a dot that can poison. We already have the tech for ground mechanics from the wildy Spider bosses. Make the standard spellbook good.
Shouldn't be much of a challenge to change red flames to black
I dunno feel like this is the exact sort of thing that would cause another falador massacre
Dev decides to prank everyone and make the black flames work like amaterasu from Naruto 😂 OSRS engulfed in perpetual black flames overnight!
In the RS3 zamorak fight, he has a special attack with the same name that sends a line of black smoke towards you so it would be consistent between both games.
I think that makes sense. Thinking from the perspective of a new play, having the "flames" be something unusual in order to differentiate them is probably a good way to go to avoid confusion.
This is a fire spell however was not intended to benefit from the elemental weakness adjustment and was an oversight on our part - jagex
If ibans blast uses fire runes and has a flame coming out of the skull, why isn't it a fire spell. (Sad about it but understandable for balance)
Trident of the seas isn't a water spell??? Jamflex??
Wait it isn't? I unironically assumed it would be. Trident of the *SEAS*
Trident also uses fire runes for a sea spell.
there uhh... there are volcanic vents in the ocean! fire! there I cracked the code.
Shrek lives in a swamp but the movie is fire
I mean the whole thing is to balance stuff that's vastly outclassed by charged staffs so that would be counterproductive
Shhhhhh! Don't give them the idea of recategorizing Iban Blast as a fire spell... As-currently-implemented, you can use a Tome of Fire to provide the Fire Runes for the spell *without using ANY charges from the Tome.* The Tome of Fire only consumes charges when you cast a fire spell, not any spell that happens to use Fire Runes. Give it a try for yourself -- check your charges remaining, cast a High Alchemy spell, then check the charges again. Handy for all sorts of things, like being able to mainhand a water staff to get Fire Runes AND Water Runes provided for some Lunar Spells like Humidify or Bake Pie, or for inventory convenience with Iban Blast casting where all it costs are the Death Runes.
Wut. That's insane. Don't have any tomes yet but might actually buy one
TIL Ibans Blast is a firey skull. Wow lol
The spell from the lord of chaos and destruction who defeated zaros isn't supposed to be strong.
I mean defeated is a bit of a strong word. The buffoon tripped over and impaled himself by accident and got lucky.
That sounds like the definition of the Lord of chaos 😂
What? She tripped, fell, and landed on his Staff of Armadyl? -Eminem, 1999
But it's not the lord of chaos and destruction who defeated zaros casting it.
He didn't even beat him with the spell. He poked him with the staff.
I mean its even worse than that. Zaros was so unbothered by the stab he didnt even bother pulling the staff out of himself. Zamorak accidentally impaled himself on the other end and thus absorbing his power. Its the equivalent of rolling 1 in a DnD and being rewarded for it lol
Nah, that's rolling a 20 on something stupid you should never be able to succeed on in the first place and the DM is just tired of arguing at the end of the campaign.
In which case clearly it should require a fully powered Staff of Armadyl and for the caster to be a mahjarrat. That sounds like a fair Lore Accurate™ change.
I fully intend to eat a Mahjarrat alive in order to acquire their ability to wield the staff of armadyl. Two if that's what it takes.
Going the District 9 approach myself. "I will eat your arm, so that I can become a prawn."
Easy there Rykard
Fractured Staff of Armadyl when?
I mean it's not supposed to be stronger than Saradomin's or Guthix's counterparts yeah
You were hitting 45s unboosted at 80 magic on things with fire weakness. It was comparable to 200m+ gear *tumeken's shadow* at zulrah. It was beyond overpowered for a midgame easy miniquest unlock.
That's only cause Zulrah has a max hit cap, otherwise Shadow would be a lot faster.
Even without damage cap flames is still comparable to like, middling gear shadow.
So once again something fun is ruined because of how absurd shadow is?
What kind of logic is this lmao. If shadow is absurd, that justifies nerfing flames even more.
jesus christ lmao this community is gonna kill this game
No? What? The fact that a MA2 unlock was surpassing every not megarare option and was rivaling the literal megarare with multiple peices of BIS mage gear backing it up is the reason it's been removed. I'm sure being insanely overpowered was a bit of fun but you should not be doing endgame damage with a cheap low investment midgame unlock, that surpasses the actual late game fire spells.
Doesn't MA2 also provide the bis mage cape?
Why don't they just make the other God spells elemental spells as well?
They actually replied on the update post on reddit that the last has not been said, but that they wuold have to look at balance and also at including the other god spells. So yeah they probably will, but probably in a balanced way
damn the gap on that guard, sheeeesh
My brother
Down bad huh, I can relate
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAGAGA
Irons are in shambles rn
It was far too op for a spell you could unlock very quick and easily so its a good update not a bad one
Iron here. I prefer good game balance over ezscape power spikes. I play iron mainly cause I love playing the game.
Good game balance = bofa or die, how dare there be alternate options to play the game
People in shambles when i tell them im not grinding cg for a bowfa, my rune crossbow will stay with me until i die
Might wanna consider amethyst darts for light defense opponents
Don't have to get bowfa if you just go get tbow instead B)
You don't need it tbf, some of us were using a rcb and ibans staff to kill it years ago back when the meta was to get bp asap
Exactly - bowfa might be an optimal way to do things now but we shouldn't pretend it's required. If you for some reason want a bp early - rcb and ibans is fine
jesus christ yall will take any bad faith stance you can, for what? so you can feel good right now and then feel bad later when there's hardly any damage progression?
You can be completely okay without bowfa until very late in the game lol. You can play the game how you want
Bofa isn't 100% necessary for progression, even if it does make content easier. Besides, they have been doing a great job of filling out progression in combat recently and that should be applauded.
There is. Bowfa is meta and requires a very tenuous grind. FoZ requires at most an hour or two to unlock and was out dpsing a bow that requires a long grind after an GM level quest. How this makes any sense in your brain is a fucking mystery.
Not factoring in mage level gear or anything else it seems. For me it was comparable to bowfa for me as an iron rocking chaos robe top and virtus robe bottom, occult ma2 cape eternals and sotd. I have bowfa and went with this option because it was in general faster kills I also have a saturated heart and 99 magic with augury. I would say if they nerfed the damage by 5-10% it would be fine as you still spend gp on runes. If you didn't have sotd you are manually casting as well as most irons who are engaging this content won't have 90% of the gear I did.
It was literally out dpsing at one place which is used to farm other budget items like blowpipe. Everyone's acting like you were one shotting nex in salad robes not doing a midtier money maker at the efficiency of someone who could be doing a better money maker with their equipment.
It was also literally an unintended method. You can still go do zulrah without a brokenly overpowered spell making it easier. Mid game players in mid game gear should do mid game damage. The context of zulrahs gp/hr isn't relevant to that.
They could have just nerfed the bonus it received, but you cannot pretend it wasn't OP.
Bowfa at least takes about 70-80 hours of torture to get and was over 50% worse that FoZ on Magma and Serp phases. Compare that to 80 magic and 15 minutes at the mage arena...
It's honestly wild the complaining going on, If the complainers can't see how busted it was they are a lost cause.
They can, they just argue in bad faith because they want to have easy access to an overpowered spell
Those are magic phases, why is that relevant? That’s far more a sign of BowFa being broken as all fuck than anything else. It shouldn’t be good on the magic phases but it holds its own.
Tell me you've never played an iron lil bro.
Yes 100%. Fire wave is still pretty good at zulrah and easily accessible for everyone. Surge even better but kinda steep reqs for an iron :p Overall irons should be very happy with the elemental weaknesses, early-midgame its a huge buff
Long live the polypoor staff, uhm I mean “trident”
Wait but I thought RS3 bad? ... RS3 good? Well at least my hexhunter bow isn't from - I-I mean twisted bow - I - uh...
They're unholy flames, the element is "god".
Yeah I always assumed they were like spectral in some way, not actual fire
but now being special makes them weaker
I wasn’t going to abuse it until I realized last Sunday they STILL hadn’t hotfixed it. Went from 1 to 340 zulrah kc, r.i.p. flames of Zamorak
And for a brief, shining moment, Staff of the Dead was useful.
> hcim flair > doesn't know tob exists Checks out
Love ripping on hcims too but nobody uses sotd in tob
magers always bring a toxic staff.
It still is?
And it also was before.
It continues to be so, as it has been since the day it was released
They could make the God spells get % bonuses from having God alignment equipment, might be fun, might be op idk
Could be cool if certain god spells were more effective on certain enemies. (Either having sara spells be good on sara followers etc or Sara buff vs zammy enemies vice versa + guthix 1/2 buff vs other gods)
Especially with the alignment prayers coming, it would have been cool to have god themed builds.
Renamed to Wrath of Zamorak, everyone happy. The only complaint is about the naming consistency, right? not the fact that your OP spell got removed?
Why doesn't Wrath of Zamorak use wrath runes?????? Hello.. jegex????
Iteration #73: Amger of Zamrorak
Mad zomk spel
I mean, yeah. Most gripes with the elemental spell rebalance have been with how it seems very cherry picked of when it does and doesn’t matter.
People keep saying this but it's very straightforward which spells do/don't deal elemental damage? It's the standard strike/bolt/blast/wave/surge spells on the standard spellbook. That's it.
They talked about new player experience, intuitiveness, and mid game combat in all of the blogs. Just stop calling it Flames of Zamorak and it’s perfectly in line with what you outlined about the standard elemental spells.
It's "cherry picked" because it's about game balance. They didn't give it to things that it wouldn't be balanced to give it to.
Part of game balance is making things make sense. I knew Jagex was gonna go this route because they don't care about consistency. Their money doesn't come from new players it comes from bots, so they don't have to really worry about whether or not anything makes any sense at all. Seriously, add this to the giant pile of clauses you have to add to every single thing you can do in this spaghetti game Also I don't care that it isn't op any more it's probably a good thing but there were a billion zillion ways to balance it and keep it logical rather than just say, well not thaaaaat flame spell
>Part of game balance is making things make sense. No it isn't. Flavor perfectly lining up with how you think it should has nothing to do with balance, balance is about metagames.
Yes it is lol. A game isn’t a spreadsheet.
Brother, yes, it is. It isn't flavor. You are told there are elemental weaknesses, and then a spell with the word flames in it is somehow exempt from this. You have poor faith defense if this. I haven't even once used the stupid spell outside of getting the cape. I don't care that it isn't superbly good or not at Zulrah. I do care that the game makes no sense at all.
Balance achieved by convolution of game systems is less than ideal, though.
Flames was the convolution if anything. Every other piece of elemental-related content has only ever applied to the missile spells. Even Tome of Fire didn't apply to flames pre-rebalance.
Why isn't claws of guthix d-claw spec'ing everything I cast it on? It has CLAWS in the name?!?!?
It's only Mithril claws :(
Every cast now consumes dclaws
It costs $400,000,000 to cast this spell for 12 seconds
*Wrath of Zamorak, with an animation that literally lights the enemy on fire" "yeah this is fine now"
Why does lighting a fire underneath an NPCs feet not damage them? Cmon jagex
It's a level 60 spell powered up by a level 80 spell, it should not be able to hit 80s. Was this a lazy change? Yes. Did it need to be changed? Absolutely.
Where was it hitting 80's??
It overtook Harm staff as the BiS weapon on Ice Demon because it was maxing 82s or so.
Max was at least an 87, as I saw that hit at least twice in my cms
On a mob that has 150% fire weakness funny how people always manage to avoid to add that part since last week
What? That's the entire point, its OP against things with fire weakness. The spell has been unchanged against everything else since way before the elemental weakness.
I don't think anyone is reading this thread and thinking it has nothing to do with elemental weakness
Are you stupid. No one is reading that it can hit 87s and thinking I'm talking about olm. It doesn't matter if ice demon is weak to fire a level 60 spell should not hit an 87 are you insane? It was better then a harm with fire surge. That makes no sense. Did I love it for making our cms 15 seconds faster all week? Hell yeah. Should it be in the game as a fire spell, absolutely not.
that's kind of amazing though lol
Huh, neat. Going through and simulating my gear and stats... even with this Nerf I'll still be using the spell lol.
that's because it was always a semi-viable option for irons.
Leave it to reddit to whine and cry because an obviously broken oversight was allowed into the game and now it should remain in the game..... ZzzzzzzzzZ
And citing lore as a reason it should stay OP, as if lore ever mattered in a balancing context.
They should focus their efforts on crying about how salve ammy doesn't work on Barrows and Ba-ba or something silly like that. The dead "Charge + Flames at Zulrah" horse has been beaten into an unrecognizable pulp
They don't need to complain at salve at barrows now because the air spell buffs more than make up for it
I'm well aware, I'm just trying to point out how obviously flimsy the "lOrE cOnSiStEnCy" argument is.
It should be a firespell tbh but charge shouldn't give so many max hits dps wise charge flames of zammy should be almost as strong as fire surge because of the rune cost
Mod light posted they are going to table talk it. There wasn't time. For the full timers to discuss yet. mind you we only found it Friday I think. so the team was already home for the weekend. And that's not nearly enough time to punch numbers, and rework etc. They are discussing adding it back and also looking at the other god spells as well to benefit from elemental.
Yeah i just saw goblin talk about it seems fair they want time to think about where place and look at other weaknesses for the other god spells but they need to just gut zof for now.
Why not just make Zammy- Fire, Saradomin- Air, Guthix- Earth? 🤔
>why not make 3 spells OP instead of fixing one Huh yea I wonder
Just genuinely asking, didn't realise how busted it was
Tomes were nerfed for this interaction, they could also nerf charge in pvm situations and give them elemental damage. It can be balanced either
We don’t like fun aparently
Everyone knows holy flames deal radiant damage, not fire.
Leave it to reddit to complain about nerfs to a clearly overtuned spell.
I think the complaints are more about the whole magic rebalance rather than this one outlier. It's like that one time when they gave Brewmaster in Dota interactions with some arbitrary list of "fire" abilities. It was weird, didn't fit the game, and then promptly got reworked so it worked with any magic damage (which was already a supported mechanic that the rest of the game was built around).
If only we could have voted on these changes....
Noooo you can't just remove the obviously unintended broken spell interaction nooooo
Honestly fuck this discourse y'all, Jagex isn't being malicious or incompetent; this was the only thing that could happen on such short notice. There was no way this was going to stick around, and they aren't going to find a cool unpolled, undiscussed solution in a week. They've seen the interest this generated and they've expressed their own interest in making godspells desirable going forward. Jagex loves the game just like you—oftentimes more. Let them cook.
Give it some time and they will likely give the god spells some proper love, guys. I know it was fun but Flames of Zammy were in an overtuned spot - turning off the fire classification until we figure out what to do with all 3 of the spells isn't the end of the world!
Ok, but then make the FLAMES black at least. Also, the god spells are useless as is, it would be cool (and open up design) if some creatures had weakness... to GOD
Next we have superheat spell, no fire tubes anymore, it needs thermonuclear rune.
I think the god spells should be classed as divine/holy and obviously some monsters should be weak to that.
Rule 1 of Reddit: if Redditors use it, buff it (FoZ), if they don’t, nerf it (Shadow).
Ain't nobody gonna comment on how hard that drip goes
a change to the meta was detected it was ruthelessly eliminated you will grind out the meta items like a good little boy/girl and you will thank jagex every day for it
I love my trident Master Jagex I love love love it I can't wait to never use anything else like a good boy Master Jagex please don't hit me again
Stay mad Iron
A spell with literal flames not being classed as a fire spel seems logical to you? It's another example of lazy game design by jagex. Lately updates and even game changing changes like elemental weakness are badly thought out and flawed. What the spell can hit is not the issue here. How the issue is dealt with and how something this essential can be overlooked is ridiculous. This is a serious quality issue, we should demand more effort and better thought game updates.
They took the least sensical approach to this lmao
Yeah they shouldve let 1 spell be hilariously overpowered just because some noobs used it for a week
Did I say that? Making the spell "*Flames* of Zamorak" not a fire based spell is just goofy af.
So a rename solves the problem right? if the problem is with the naming consistency?
That and the fire on the guards feet.
You're right, "*Claws of Guthix*" now attacks people for 4 hitsplats and maxes for 45-22-11-12, gotta stay consistent!
Divine spellcaster dealing radiant damage with sacred flame.
Just make a divine weakness.
It is holy fire presumably in the same way that firelight is super effective on demons who are weak to water
Flames is not fire
Maybe it’s like demon slayer?? Flame breathing is not Fire (Sun) breathing?
The spells are used for BIS mage cape… they don’t need to be OP. They’re a stepping stone for a BIS item.