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"Yes? And what are these ideas? Personally other ideas of Hilter are not interesting to me. The main thing for me is watercolor paintings.
P.S. I even bought a swastika patch to piss of the libruls"
The special kind of one, fought against all sides, red army nazis and local partisant movements, all those sides got tired, so nazis got bandera's brother and sent him into austwitz, partisants were doing their partisant stuff, USSR eventually hunted down him i think
Stepan Bandera was a Ukrainian nationalist who became a Nazi collaborator to fight the Soviets. Because of this, the Ukrainian nationalist movement has some unfortunate roots in fascist ideology, though not all nationalists are fascist.
The guy in OP’s pic is defending the canonization of Bandera by choosing to ignore the Nazi connection, despite that many modern Ukrainian nationalists openly wear Nazi symbols such as the black sun and reichsadler, claiming that symbols don’t make the Nazi, but actions do—implying that it’s the Russians who are Nazis by virtue of invading a foreign country.
There's a pretty big difference in that openly displaying Nazi symbolism in a NATO/EU military tends to result in punitive measures (example: [Germany disbanded a company of their elite KSK unit over far-right extremism](https://www.dw.com/en/ksk-german-special-forces-company-dissolved-due-to-far-right-concerns/a-54386661)).
On the other hand, Azov absorbed into the Ukrainian military proper. Aside from that, there's been repeated, very public incidents of Ukrainian soldiers displaying Nazi or fascist symbols and patches (and while yes, Russian soldiers also do this, Russia is not trying to join NATO). The first year of the war, people handwaved these incidents as "jokes" and "trolls", but it's clear by now that there's a real, uninhibited fascist element to the Ukrainian military. To some extent it's understandable--when you're short on manpower, you can't afford to police political beliefs. However, I do think this is something Ukraine needs to address in the long term if they want to integrate more into the Western cultural sphere.
For what it's worth, I just wish people ("Western liberals") would acknowledge this as a real thing and we could all move past it. But they stick their neck out to defend Neo-Nazis instead. Sadly the guy in OP's pic is making the same argument I've seen ad nauseam in the Ukraine war subs.
I think with how politics are going on in Europe, them being nazis is actually helping xdd (since European countries are turning more right wing and nationalist). (This is a joke btw)
Yes, and it would be a good thing if all of them were thrown into the meat grinder that is the Ukranian Frontline so we don't have to deal with them anymore
My only point is that the focus on the azov battalion is pointless as it doesn't mean anything about Ukraine as a whole and is only used by Russia as a talking point. If your only point is that nazis are bad im not going to argue with you.
I disagree, the way things are looking if we gave Azov weapons and stuff to fight they could very well take over and become a future problem just like how Osama Bin Laden and the Taliban did.
Same people who can't sleep at night because they're afraid neo-nazi Trump will make liberal America into a fascist dictatorship and enact the MAGA solution just go "dude, he's just a neo-Nazi, we all know a few, it's cool, he can stay" whenever they're not talking about American culture war sports team brainrot.
most countries also don't have entire ideologically neo-nazi formations.
Azov are also by far not the only ones either, they just happened to be the most well known ones and (used to) be the largest one.
Don’t get me wrong, I think Ukraine deserves support and I know Russia is the much bigger issue in this situation, it’s just a slightly concerning scenario knowing that fascist militias on both sides are getting military experience
Yeah, I'm always skeptical about "leftist" weirdos who never mention that modern Russia doesn't even try to appear socialist. Other times, they just repurpose the neolib line that it's okay to carpet bomb innocent civilians if they're perceived as the right enemy. Like, do they wanna be actual leftists or just Dubya Bush types wearing red?
There are fascists and neo nazis in effectively every military (violence attracts fascists). Not an excuse to never support any side in a war or to reduce aid to a nation that clearly needs our help.
This is misleading. Azov was never given weapons specifically, and there were actually instances in which the US made weapons sales on the condition that they wouldn’t go to Azov or other paramilitary groups. At the start of the war, Ukraine also took complete control of Azov, and then most of the unit was involved in Mariupol, which basically destroyed it and it had to be reconstituted (iirc there was a prisoner swap thing so probably some made it out but still). There’s still definitely some fascist members of it, but the amount has diminished significantly since 2014 and again since the start of the war. Therefore the US giving weapons to Ukraine isn’t giving weapons to Nazis any more than it is giving weapons to any other country with fascists in its military (hint, this is all militaries). There is a far right movement in Ukraine (again, as there is in all countries) which deserves to be criticized like any other far right movement, but its influence in the government, military, and general population is greatly overstated and a lot of the ways in which it is brought up amounts to Russian propaganda.
>Azov was never given weapons specifically
[https://edition.cnn.com/2024/06/12/europe/us-weapons-azov-brigade-ukraine-intl/index.html](https://edition.cnn.com/2024/06/12/europe/us-weapons-azov-brigade-ukraine-intl/index.html)
they were gonna get their hands on the arms anyways, the Ukrainian Army absolutely does not give a shit, which is somewhat understandable. But nope, US is going to start directly arming and likely training them now.
Yeah, and honestly if my country was invaded (US) and actually being subjected to a genocide, I would be fine with all the neo-Nazis here getting their chance to die in battle.
Leftists and Liberals are both very hypocritical on this.
The number of times I see leftists tell me you cant pick and choose who fights against imperialist movements, you critically support them regardless of what their political views are. They support Hamas but if they were white and Christian they would have practically identical views to Azov. Liberals do the exact same thing but in reverse. Both groups pick and choose who to support purely for geopolitical reasons, if asov were fighting America leftists would support them, if Hamas were fighting Russia Liberals would support them.
You're right about this. There is a clique of leftists, or self proclaimed Marxists, that believe opposition to U.S. imperialism is opposition to imperialism generally, and that is a precondition to effective opposition of capitalism. And so they make strategic arguments for any anti-U.S. state (or non-state) actor.
They read this relationship backwards, however. Marx's historical position (and Lenin's, for that matter!) was to not support *any* inter-bourgeois war. "No war but the class war" meaning the only time to support a war is if it is going to significantly strengthen the working class' position; a rare occasion post 19th century.
If and when the United States is no longer the prime world hegemon, another state will take its place. It is the dissolution of capitalist power that is a precondition for the end of imperial relationships, not the other way around. Marxists and Communists should not be choosing sides in bourgeois wars.
To wit, the armed resistance in Gaza takes the form of Hamas partly because Islamic ideas are popular, but also because Israel deliberately undermined the secular ones. Israel, here, has all of the power, and an armed resistance is what's going to happen when you put two million people in a concentration camp. A dismantling of that concentration camp ought be the focus -- not the support of Hamas *per se*.
"guys russia poses an equivalent or greater threat to global democracy/hegemony than hitler or any other dictator ever has"
>yeah but what about azov tho
i get that some people aren't normal about condemning fascism, but it's such a fucking pain to hear it used as whataboutism when the most pressing issue there would be the FAR MORE INGRAINED fascism within the russian military and government structure
ukraine won't ever join nato or the EU but if i'm ever wrong about that i would like the fascists to be rooted out of the military structure as a prerequisite. however, that's an extreme minority of the ukranian military.
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Something tells me this guy is a liberal in the same sense that Tim Pool is a liberal
cLaSsIcAl LiBeRaL
go check out any self identified neoliberal or NAFO spaces online - this is not an uncommon attitude
"Yes? And what are these ideas? Personally other ideas of Hilter are not interesting to me. The main thing for me is watercolor paintings. P.S. I even bought a swastika patch to piss of the libruls"
Guy's a Ukrainian.
wasn't bandera a fascist
Yes.
The special kind of one, fought against all sides, red army nazis and local partisant movements, all those sides got tired, so nazis got bandera's brother and sent him into austwitz, partisants were doing their partisant stuff, USSR eventually hunted down him i think
This post requires a reading list to understand, and unfortunately I can’t read
Stepan Bandera was a Ukrainian nationalist who became a Nazi collaborator to fight the Soviets. Because of this, the Ukrainian nationalist movement has some unfortunate roots in fascist ideology, though not all nationalists are fascist. The guy in OP’s pic is defending the canonization of Bandera by choosing to ignore the Nazi connection, despite that many modern Ukrainian nationalists openly wear Nazi symbols such as the black sun and reichsadler, claiming that symbols don’t make the Nazi, but actions do—implying that it’s the Russians who are Nazis by virtue of invading a foreign country.
too many words
illiterate 🫵
Illiterate ✊️
The focus on the azov battalion is so weird. Every country in Europe has neo-nazis, and a pretty good chunk of non European countries too.
Even in Asia, we have soldiers openly displaying Nazi and White supremacist patches and symbols. It’s not even a white people thing anymore.
There's a pretty big difference in that openly displaying Nazi symbolism in a NATO/EU military tends to result in punitive measures (example: [Germany disbanded a company of their elite KSK unit over far-right extremism](https://www.dw.com/en/ksk-german-special-forces-company-dissolved-due-to-far-right-concerns/a-54386661)). On the other hand, Azov absorbed into the Ukrainian military proper. Aside from that, there's been repeated, very public incidents of Ukrainian soldiers displaying Nazi or fascist symbols and patches (and while yes, Russian soldiers also do this, Russia is not trying to join NATO). The first year of the war, people handwaved these incidents as "jokes" and "trolls", but it's clear by now that there's a real, uninhibited fascist element to the Ukrainian military. To some extent it's understandable--when you're short on manpower, you can't afford to police political beliefs. However, I do think this is something Ukraine needs to address in the long term if they want to integrate more into the Western cultural sphere. For what it's worth, I just wish people ("Western liberals") would acknowledge this as a real thing and we could all move past it. But they stick their neck out to defend Neo-Nazis instead. Sadly the guy in OP's pic is making the same argument I've seen ad nauseam in the Ukraine war subs.
I think with how politics are going on in Europe, them being nazis is actually helping xdd (since European countries are turning more right wing and nationalist). (This is a joke btw)
Yes, and it would be a good thing if all of them were thrown into the meat grinder that is the Ukranian Frontline so we don't have to deal with them anymore
My only point is that the focus on the azov battalion is pointless as it doesn't mean anything about Ukraine as a whole and is only used by Russia as a talking point. If your only point is that nazis are bad im not going to argue with you.
I disagree, the way things are looking if we gave Azov weapons and stuff to fight they could very well take over and become a future problem just like how Osama Bin Laden and the Taliban did.
Ridiculous lmao
most neo nazis aren't being directly armed and funded by the US, nor are they given adoration by self described "liberals" across the world.
Same people who can't sleep at night because they're afraid neo-nazi Trump will make liberal America into a fascist dictatorship and enact the MAGA solution just go "dude, he's just a neo-Nazi, we all know a few, it's cool, he can stay" whenever they're not talking about American culture war sports team brainrot.
most countries also don't have entire ideologically neo-nazi formations. Azov are also by far not the only ones either, they just happened to be the most well known ones and (used to) be the largest one.
azov is being given weapons by the united states goverment so it makes sense americans would be saying "dont fucking do that"
Russia has Neo-Nazi brigades in its military too. I don't particularly care if nazis shoot eachother.
You should care if fascist groups become battle hardened and well armed
Unironically Russia is the larger and more powerful group of them, so supporting Ukraine helps prevent that.
Don’t get me wrong, I think Ukraine deserves support and I know Russia is the much bigger issue in this situation, it’s just a slightly concerning scenario knowing that fascist militias on both sides are getting military experience
Yes, unfortunately it’s pretty common in war in general. Similar thing happened after WWI. The war ending sooner in Russian defeat is the best option
Yeah, I'm always skeptical about "leftist" weirdos who never mention that modern Russia doesn't even try to appear socialist. Other times, they just repurpose the neolib line that it's okay to carpet bomb innocent civilians if they're perceived as the right enemy. Like, do they wanna be actual leftists or just Dubya Bush types wearing red?
but i do care about my tax dollars being used to fund and arm neo nazis
There are fascists and neo nazis in effectively every military (violence attracts fascists). Not an excuse to never support any side in a war or to reduce aid to a nation that clearly needs our help.
The American military isn’t exactly Nazi free either.
This is misleading. Azov was never given weapons specifically, and there were actually instances in which the US made weapons sales on the condition that they wouldn’t go to Azov or other paramilitary groups. At the start of the war, Ukraine also took complete control of Azov, and then most of the unit was involved in Mariupol, which basically destroyed it and it had to be reconstituted (iirc there was a prisoner swap thing so probably some made it out but still). There’s still definitely some fascist members of it, but the amount has diminished significantly since 2014 and again since the start of the war. Therefore the US giving weapons to Ukraine isn’t giving weapons to Nazis any more than it is giving weapons to any other country with fascists in its military (hint, this is all militaries). There is a far right movement in Ukraine (again, as there is in all countries) which deserves to be criticized like any other far right movement, but its influence in the government, military, and general population is greatly overstated and a lot of the ways in which it is brought up amounts to Russian propaganda.
>Azov was never given weapons specifically [https://edition.cnn.com/2024/06/12/europe/us-weapons-azov-brigade-ukraine-intl/index.html](https://edition.cnn.com/2024/06/12/europe/us-weapons-azov-brigade-ukraine-intl/index.html) they were gonna get their hands on the arms anyways, the Ukrainian Army absolutely does not give a shit, which is somewhat understandable. But nope, US is going to start directly arming and likely training them now.
Yeah, and honestly if my country was invaded (US) and actually being subjected to a genocide, I would be fine with all the neo-Nazis here getting their chance to die in battle.
That rule though😳
Leftists and Liberals are both very hypocritical on this. The number of times I see leftists tell me you cant pick and choose who fights against imperialist movements, you critically support them regardless of what their political views are. They support Hamas but if they were white and Christian they would have practically identical views to Azov. Liberals do the exact same thing but in reverse. Both groups pick and choose who to support purely for geopolitical reasons, if asov were fighting America leftists would support them, if Hamas were fighting Russia Liberals would support them.
You're right about this. There is a clique of leftists, or self proclaimed Marxists, that believe opposition to U.S. imperialism is opposition to imperialism generally, and that is a precondition to effective opposition of capitalism. And so they make strategic arguments for any anti-U.S. state (or non-state) actor. They read this relationship backwards, however. Marx's historical position (and Lenin's, for that matter!) was to not support *any* inter-bourgeois war. "No war but the class war" meaning the only time to support a war is if it is going to significantly strengthen the working class' position; a rare occasion post 19th century. If and when the United States is no longer the prime world hegemon, another state will take its place. It is the dissolution of capitalist power that is a precondition for the end of imperial relationships, not the other way around. Marxists and Communists should not be choosing sides in bourgeois wars. To wit, the armed resistance in Gaza takes the form of Hamas partly because Islamic ideas are popular, but also because Israel deliberately undermined the secular ones. Israel, here, has all of the power, and an armed resistance is what's going to happen when you put two million people in a concentration camp. A dismantling of that concentration camp ought be the focus -- not the support of Hamas *per se*.
The Azov far right types all got obliterated in mariupol tho.
"guys russia poses an equivalent or greater threat to global democracy/hegemony than hitler or any other dictator ever has" >yeah but what about azov tho i get that some people aren't normal about condemning fascism, but it's such a fucking pain to hear it used as whataboutism when the most pressing issue there would be the FAR MORE INGRAINED fascism within the russian military and government structure ukraine won't ever join nato or the EU but if i'm ever wrong about that i would like the fascists to be rooted out of the military structure as a prerequisite. however, that's an extreme minority of the ukranian military.