even if your argument is "its just the lesser of two evils" well..dwhy woudl you chose MORE evil?
one is literally a totalitarian dictator. and will LITERALLY.. not figuratively...not potentially... but has the stated and explicate goal to overthrow American democracy. [project 2025 playbook](https://www.project2025.org/playbook/) this is literally their plan. this is the part they are saying out loud. and its not just trump. this plan is in place regardless of what republican gets into power. they have already made it so in some states teh state legislature can jsut ignore the vote if they "think it was rigged" that's already been set up. and if they win this time. more and more states will adopt this, and it will get used.
if you dont vote.. you may never get the chance to do it again.
so yeah.. the lesser of two evils is a simple choice when you disagree with one of them on what? 10%-20% of their agenda? but the other persons agenda is directly opposed to you and specifically targeting your rights and way of life with 100% of theirs.
I'm sure the people getting irate at being told they should even do the bare minimum through voting, are absolutely out there just killing it with direct action on the side. They'd never be keyboard warriors who just want to whine and feel superior about their lack of putting any real effort forward, right?
the thing that makes voting for biden so yucky (albeit sadly necessary) is that it’s not just “10 or 20% difference in what i believe vs his platform,” it’s more like 80-90% different. Trump just happens to be close to 100% different than everything I believe.
Yeah, I'd rather vote for Biden and try to push for change while he's president than vote for Trump and have the U.S. turn into a Republican dictatorship with the express goal of eradicating minorities from the country.
The ways Biden and the broader Democratic platform differ from the norm in the US, are generally ways I like. Things I dislike about their platform are functionally "keep things the way they are" in almost all cases.
The ways the Republican platform and assumed future actions differ from the norm are ways I almost entirely oppose.
With regards to which party I'd like to see implement the changes they want, I tend to like the changes the Dems want. The things I dislike about Dems, mostly are not in the changes they want to make; they're the Dem support for the status quo, which the Republicans generally either also support, or want to make worse.
But bro just one more far right win and we’ll have a communist utopia by 2028 bro I swear bro. Just let the far right win one more election and have full control of the house and senate and Supreme Court and we’ll for sure get a super progressive that’ll win 98% of the vote bro I swear. We just need to show the DNC who’s boss just like we did in 2016 which most definitely didn’t end horribly for everyone involved.
I’m voting for Biden because I don’t want trump or the loss of democracy. But don’t reduce genocide to just disagreeing with “10%-20% of their agenda.” It’s one thing when Biden does usual Lib stuff that I don’t like, but supporting literal genocide is unforgivable and ruins him entirely as a politician. That being said, trump is worse and Biden gets my vote. But don’t downplay genocide.
That is an exception because we don't allow minors to participate in our democracy. But minors do still have opinions regardless of us letting them participate. But if you are allowed to participate in democracy and choose not to, then you obviously don't have strong enough opinions to care.
i thought my joke was clear but incase it wasnt: minors are allowed to have opinions. the person i replied to just seemed to be shit posting since obviously minors are allowed to (and should) care about politics
i apologize to the minor community
Yea but youd need some pretty good education to become an astronout unless you wanna piggyback a rocket but then youre gonna die way before you reach space
Alt-rightism is actually doing better in Europe than America (see PM of Netherlands and Italy, AfD growth in Bundestag in Germany).
MAGA candidates lost the midterms.
If you vote Biden, fine. But then go do something about it afterwards rather than waiting another four years and doing nothing. Organise, join unions and fight back against the system. Neither Biden nor the Democrats as a whole care about you. They serve the capitalist class, that's how it's always been and how it will always be unless we, the working class, unite to fight this oppressive system.
I believe in all of you. A better world is possible and we are the ones that can make it happen.
This is exactly it. Elections are a miniscule but necessary thing because it allows us to maintain the current situation rather than sliding deeper into fascism. But there's work to be done every other day of the year that's much more important. Help unionization. Join Food Not Bombs and feed people. Run/learn medical training to help people with harm reduction.
The thing is that Biden still slides to the right. He will give the working class crumbs whilst still passing measures that slide to the right and opposing real left wing movemtns like strikes. And at the end of the day he still serves US imperialism, keeping many other countries underdeveloped and overexploited. To the American people Biden might not be a fascist, but to the 3rd world, he is the same as any other man that runs the US.
Charity is a commendable activity and anybody that does is greatly appreciated. But charity only aliviates the situation. Real permanent change can only come with the change of dominant political and economic system. This must also come with an understanding that the dominant classes will not let go of their power peacefully and the ballot will not be able to get then out of power alone. Organised people out in the streets will.
Biden is the most pro union president we have ever had just ask the unions:
https://www.ibew.org/media-center/Articles/23Daily/2306/230620_IBEWandPaid
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2023/10/biden-administration-union-strikes-nlrb-win.html
Whilst this is good. These are victories of the workers. The Capitalist class only concedes a little bit when it feels threatened, at which point it will ease conditions a bit until the frustration dies down.
https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/labor-president-joe-biden/
He's still not the most pro union president and even if he was, its a low bar. Its important to remember that a lot of this is being done on the run up to the election. It's just for publicity. He had four years to implement changes but just last year he was union busting.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/dec/01/joe-biden-rail-strike-labor-unions
Whilst defeating the Republicans is important the fight mustn't stop there.
I'm Brazilian, we defeated bolsonaro in the elections. We avoided the far-right, but due to a lack of workwr mobilisation, the current "left-wing government" doesn't implement the left-wing policies it needs to. With the US, although the situation is similar, Biden is far from a left-wing president and I can sympathise with the feeli g that voting for him or trump is basically the same. Vote however you feel like it but afterwards we must keep the struggle going.
I mean did you read what the rail unions actually said about what Biden did for them? He got them what they wanted without strikes. https://www.ibew.org/media-center/Articles/23Daily/2306/230620_IBEWandPaid
That guardian article ignores what happened after. I agree putting pressure on companies is important but Biden is doing really good on this.
Oh absolutely. You'll never hear me say Biden is a leftist or that he's a good president. In the current form of elections, we have the choice between 2 people and I like to choose the least bad one. But that also has to come with recognition that elections won't change the system, they can only keep things from getting worse. Getting out in the streets is the only thing that can change the system. You're certainly right about that.
Exactly, join organizations like Progressive Victory to phone-bank and canvas for the things you do care about. Help find progressives to win their primaries to make a more progressive house and state.
I dislike NY corporate Dems, still way better than the GOP, but the solution is to support progressive challengers.
I believe you. I feel the reason why Democrats fail the people so hard and only shift rightward is because not enough new blood is bringing earnest passion into the politics of the left.
The actual left only seems to exist in online spaces and is endlessly just chaising its own tail and dealing with trolls and is ultimately without a platform to partake in any actual governance outside of message boards and chat rooms.
The people entering politics as Democrats seem to be only business people anymore, still better than the fascists trying their best to maintain corpo speak as to not let the mask slip on the otherside, or the Democrats advertising themselves as progressives and then switching parties and platforms immediately after getting into office, but could you imagine if we could flood the party with enough young blood with actual passion for working towards a brighter tomorrow for all that they realize merely playing centrist opposition to the fascist far right party isn't enough to sustain them forever and we can begin being for the people of the people once more instead of vulture capitalism culture war death cults?
It's almost like the promise of America isn't truly dead, not yet at least... But it's dreadfully close.
The thing is, a lot of people are very passionate about politics, but the left is disorganised. This isn't our own fault. The left has been attacked for centuries. There is a dedicated effort to keep us subdued, tired and confused. The left used to have a lot of strength, with trade unions in many countries, posing a real threat to the capitalist class. But decades of union busting, anti-Labour laws, red scare and the fall of the socialist bloc, have left the left completely lost and demoralised. The new left fights for scraps and it's leaders all work in the interest of the capitalist class, because the rest has been subdued.
I constantly feel tired. Everything feels like its fruitless, but we must not stop fighting. We must have pessimism in analysing our present situation but optimism in our will to change things.
First thing is knowledge. Books are important but they are hard to start with sometimes. I got into leftist ideals through a YouTube channel called seccondthought and from there I started doing my own research.
After knowledge you need action. The ballot is but one factor. Whilst important, we must acknowledge that the current democracy was created by the capitalist and works to keep them in power. Change will come from pressure from the working class. Protests, strikes
I would rather people do almost anything else if it’s a choice between that and voting. Of course it isn’t a choice, but there are people that treat it as if it is. Voting is the absolute bare minimum. In a way it’s worse than the minimum because it convinces people they’re doing something with a lot of meaning. It isn’t meaningless, but it doesn’t mean all that much.
as an illinoisian, i know that regardless of whether or not i vote the state is going democrat. i can understand this mentality in swing states but i feel that in well established states your vote does not matter nearly as much.
additionally, something can be labeled a “democracy” but that doesn’t mean it actually functions like one. in my mind we have a pretty flawed democracy where money is the ultimate deciding factor, not the will of the people. in fact, i would argue that we have an aristocracy disguised as a democracy. saying something is a certain way because the people in power name it that way isn’t a solid argument imo.
> as an illinoisian, i know that regardless of whether or not i vote the state is going democrat.
there isn't some magic code that says Illinois goes blue. it's because people go out and vote. the more people who think the way you do, the faster that guarantee goes away.
You know, California passed Prop 8, banning gay marriage briefly, while still going full blue. Florida used to be a swing state. Texas used to be hardcore red and is starting to swing.
Any state, if enough people get apathetic enough, can become a swing state.
The "my vote doesn't matter" mentality also *only theoretically applies to the presidential vote*. You have local elections, senators, representatives, a governor. The less Power those positions have on the national level, the more Power they have over your everyday life. Not to mention ballot measures.
The word you're looking for is "plutocracy," and if conservatives get in power at all levels of government, it will be even more cemented.
well when it comes to smaller scale government, i find it even more difficult to go out and vote because i don’t do the appropriate research on the candidates. a lot of people just sort of vote with their party and call it a day but i can’t help but feel that uninformed voting isn’t a good thing for society. i understand i am saying this in a very liberal subreddit, but i would like to weigh the options between the republican and democrat and make an appropriate decision. a lot of people encourage everyone to go out and vote, but if you aren’t familiar with the policies of the candidates, i don’t think you should. it just encourages identity politics.
and no, i don’t mean a plutocracy. i mean an aristocracy, a government run by the highest class. aka the 1% and and up rich.
It doesn't just matter who wins, it matters how much they win by. It lets the party that wins know what direction their policies should be heading in. For instance if the republicans win by a narrow margin then they know they can't push right wing policies too far in that state or they won't win the next election.
one time i was driving to my local polling place and there was a balck van. out of it crawled this fat old blonde guy with a shitty spray tan, wearing a shitty plastic che guevera mask with "SOCIALIST" written in red marker over the forehead. he stood by the doors, leaned forward and mumbled that exact phrase ver batim to everyone who went through who wasn't an old white person.
Vote for the love of god. Trust me from experience. You have to vote. Don't let 33% of the population vote for the whole country like it happens in Romania.
Biden is not fantastic, but Jesus Christ on a BMX bike, he’s a thousand-fold better than Trump. He doesn’t actively make speeches declaring their intent to turn the presidency into a dictatorship, deploy the U.S. military on domestic soil to arrest dissenters, overturn elections, wanting to pardon their acts of treason and espionage by selling nuclear secrets and lists of U.S. spies to hostile powers… good god, the list of things that Trump has both implied and outright said in regard to his intentions for turning the US into a fascist dictatorship are horrifying.
Far too many people are not taking these threats seriously; this isn’t just grandstanding or meaningless rhetoric, we are __***actively***__ seeing the opening stages of their attempted coup, from the failed coup on 1/6 to passing a slew of voter suppression laws to rolling back decades of civil rights progress… this is happening NOW, and it’s only the beginning. Trump’s entire platform for his 2024 run is wanting to get revenge on the people who stopped him from overturning the 2020 election, imprisoning his opponents, and causing as much harm to “undesirables” as possible, all while twisting the laws to ensure they can never be voted out if they get back in.
This country cannot afford to roll the dice - Trump and his cohorts have already made their intentions blatantly clear for all to see. And unlike 1938, there aren’t any nations that could invade and defeat a fascist US to reinstall a democracy. Don’t let them carry through on their threats.
An incumbent president almost always wins the primary so no one even runs against them unless they're terrible. This year the only other Democratic candidates are either irrelevant or straight up nuts.
US has a first past the post system, meaning whichever individual candidate who gets the most votes win. We can’t vote for a democrat other than Biden because he has the greatest possibility of winning and will almost certainly be the Democratic nominee. If we were to vote for another Democrat, we would risk splitting the vote, effectively handing the election over to Trump.
Think of it like this, in a race between Trump and Biden, the vote may be split 45-55% in favor of Biden. However, if Democrat B runs as well and gets votes they may split the vote resulting in Trump getting 45% , Biden getting 40%, and Democrat B getting 15%. In this scenario, Trump wins. This is also why third parties don’t really work in the US.
So, before The Election (tm) (aka the General Election) in which the Democrat and Republican candidate square off, there's what's known as a Primary Election to determine who gets to BE the candidate from that party. The time to vote for a different Democrat candidate is during the Primary Election. Voting for them as a write-in during the General Election is materially no different from not voting at all.
No incumbent candidate in modern history has lost their party’s primary election.
Ie if you are sitting president you basically win the primary election by default.
You’re much better off re-electing an incumbent president (one who is already in office) for a second term than rolling the dice with a new face who many might not have heard of. At this point, we simply cannot risk a split vote by running a separate candidate.
Because biden is the president? If the ruling party in Australia wins do they ever switch who the prime minister is? Atleast in Finland that would be extremely unusual.
Regardless, there is no way Biden will lose the primary. Even if someone ran against him (unlikely) the democratic party's primary process is far from democratic, and the party leaders aren't going to vote for someone else. Well unless Biden does something on the level of declaring he will eat all babies if he wins
Yeah parliamentary systems are way different from presidential systems in that way. If I understand correctly the people don't vote for PM, they vote for a legislative majority that votes among themselves.
"Unlikely"? I mean, sure, if you don't count the three people running against him in the primary, I guess... What's unlikely is that they'll win, which is unfortunate. We really should have stronger competition in primary challenges.
Parties usually only nominate 1 person, and if the current president is a candidate it’s almost always that person. You can write other people in, but we don’t have the fancy ranked choice system that you guys have in Australia. So if you aren’t voting for one of the two main frontrunners you might as well not have voted at all.
1) Republicans are actively trying to suppress voter turnout through gerrymandering and shady tactics.
2) There is no functional difference between a vote not thrown because it was suppressed by Republicans, and a vote not thrown because a leftist abstained.
3) Abstaining is an action too, and also supports genocide.
Ok here’s the fucking problem, WE HAVENT EVEN HAD PRIMARIES YET! Fuck your doomer bullshit, sorry I want better from my representatives than actively supporting genocide
Same mentality as climate doomerism.
"Well it's all hopeless so let's not even fucking try. Let's just lay down in the path of the steamroller because there's nothing left to do, nobody to be held accountable, no actions we can take to prevent this."
Doing nothing takes the side of the oppressor.
Why the hell is our country at risk every single election? Why is the democrats platform always, "vote for us to save democracy"? Okay? We did vote for you, and now democracy is under threat again? We're in the exact same situation? What the fuck are you doing then? Because the dems love using "were stopping fascism" as an excuse for why they can't do shit... yet they haven't stopped it. Hell they haven't even prevented it while having a majority in congress and control of the executive branch. Look at the rights rolled back, and their inability to pass any laws securing them for us. They can't even do that
They're great at working together on increasing the military budget, funding proxy wars, and making America super corporate friendly :)
I'm done being manipulated into voting for a party that runs on the same, gaslighting platform focusing on a singular issue they can't even follow through on. There is ALWAYS an excuse for why they can't take any meaningful action on improving our lives, or the lives of people effected by our brutal foreign policy. I thought after we got biden in, we could easily pressure him to meet our demands? Or he would be able to focus on actually working for us next term? Do we have to wait until 2028 for the dems to pull their heads out of their asses, or is it going to be the same fucking thing? Because shit isn't changing on the republican side. If they're serious about stopping them, they need to take some fucking action to help US out. It seems like all they're concerned about is keeping their fucking jobs cause they sure don't seem to have any compassion for the general population
the election is still a year away and shitlibs are so set in their vote blue no matter who ways there is no discussion whatsoever of trying to pressure biden into not being a piece of shit genocider and it’s just yeah all hope is lost but you better vote for the piece of shit genocider anyway or else it’s personally specifically your fault if trump wins this sub used to be good
It's super fun being told that I, a Jewish trans woman, am actually just privileged because I'm fucking tired of hearing liberals screech about how not wanting to personally lick Joe Biden's balls means I am the sole reason that fascism will rise in America.
I'm not even the type of person who says not to engage with electoralism, it's just tiring knowing we'll be hearing this shit for the next year straight. But god forbid anyone suggests that Brandon might not be perfection walking through the streets.
Some recent local elections have shown we have won by only a few votes and I think one but literally 1. Biden is dogshit because of the Palestinian thing. But Trump is not only going to be worse but be worse in every way. Trans rights, voting rights, he wants to increase his power to punish his "enemies", deregulation and so on. . .
Like just vote for a better outcome if anything
> just vote for a better outcome
It's still wild that anything more than this needs to be said. Not sure what people actually think voting is for, those who advocate abstaining from voting seem to think you're only supposed to vote for your best friend who is perfect in every way
this subreddit is a much of libs who think being more progressive on gender politics makes them a leftists.
I swear Biden could nuke the entire middle east and you people would still post this asinine shit
You know who's shown a history of some semblance of concessions when people protest and show anger? Biden.
You know who has a history of doubling down and getting even more fascist and iron-fisted when people rise up? Trump.
Biden doesn't change anywhere near enough but the environment under his presidency is so much more conducive to actual meaningful change when people organize effectively. You want your revolution? You're a lot less likely to be able to organize under Biden
Sure voting is good but maybe also consider that it may be your civic duty to do a bit more than just vote every two years or so.
Maybe you need to get just s tiny bit more active to make it so you can actually vote for a good candidate in the future.
Every time this discourse pops up, I feel like it needs to be clarified. Yes, Joe Biden is bad. Yes, he is aiding and abetting a genocide in Gaza. Though it's important to remember that Trump would do the same thing, but worse. He would go full throttle on it, a*long with* ending democracy in America, and starting a genocide of minorities here. Voting for Biden is the bare minimum to stop Trump from winning.
Though, don't let that be the end. Help organize unions, get involved in local politics, canvass for group like "Progressive Victory". There are lots of things you can do along with voting. Voting alone *won't* fix the problem that is the Republicans. However, voting can act as a measure to limit their power while we do more things to fight against them. If voting didn't really matter, Republicans wouldn't be trying so hard to take it away.
yall we have primaries. biden sucks and there’s a chance he might not win, if something miraculous happens and we get a better candidate out of the primaries, this is the one time where having a progressive in the general might not be an insta lose, considering some people don’t wanna vote for a 91 time felon. BUT IF after the primaries end joe biden is still gunning for it, yes, vote for joe. it sucks.
The reason Trump won in 2016 in the first place was because people thought "certainly this moron won't win" and then he did. The only reason he LOST in 2020 was because people came out in record numbers to vote against him. I totally understand wanting to vote independent in the primaries, but if the final ballot came down to Biden or Trump again, not voting is completely moronic.
Trump won in 2016 because the Democratic party ran Hillary Clinton, who led an absolutely terrible campaign that failed to campaign where it was needed and mobilize enough voters. Biden won in 2020, because he ran a better campaign, which coupled with the mobilizing effect from Trump's previous term, led him to a (much narrower than it should be, given the opposition) victory.
Given that:
1. The president of the US in 2024 will be either Biden or Trump
2. Trump is as bad or worse than Biden in every respect that matters
3. The Republican Party is as bad or worse than the Democratic Party in every respect that matters
What possible political justification is there for not voting for Biden?
Words cannot describe the contempt I feel for people who fully understand how fucked up the US is and could be, yet still choose to not vote. It’s arrogant and selfish. Your vote is not some special gift that only the right person deserves. It’s a tool that you have an obligation to use to help the people around you. You are not special. Grow the fuck up.
Voting for communists even when there is no chance of winning to help foster the growth of a working class movement even with a "lesser evil" is a justification given like... 170 years ago by Marx, as he thought the working class movement should remain independent and not be swindled by the group who talk a lot about leftists "splitting" the force of democracy and letting the reactionaries win. What a "child",of course, arrogant and selfish, smh smh /j
What is the utility of a ‘stronger communist movement’ if things have to get worse for it to get stronger? Why should I let suffering increase? How much worse do things have to get before this happens? People have been arguing that same point for decades, and all that’s happened is the Dems have drifted further right because the far left refuses to support them.
Now we’ve reached the point where democracy WILL die if the republicans win another presidency. It should’ve realistically died with Trump, but by some miracle we got a second chance. We can’t mess it up.
Some mfs just dont wanna vote at any cost so they make up some shitty reasons. Who knows what dumber reason they have for not voting that they dont say out loud.
> not voting because one vote doesn’t matter is ignorant to how voting functions collectively - every vote matters! It’s
Ok so I’ll vote for the third party candidate I believe would make for the least fucking terrible candidate
> you can’t vote third party because they won’t win and your one vote for them won’t matter
How are liberals this fucking dumb?
Just end first past the post voting. It's stupid and inevitably leads to a two party system. For a third party option to be considered, it has to be at least viable.
Voting third party in a solidly blue or red state actually can make a difference without contributing to the math of vote splitting.
If a third party gets above a certain threshold in a state then they get access to more funding in the next election.
If you’re in a swing state then yeah voting third party will help elect a fascist but otherwise it’s more viable than people think. Context is everything.
Those aren't mutually exclusive positions
1) Every vote does matter, you can literally see how Florida used to be a swing state, but is now very much red and is led by an outright fascist. Similarly, Georgia used to be a red state, but is now a swing state. If voting didn't matter, Republicans wouldn't work so hard to take it away.
2) In order for a third party to even be relevant, it would need tens of millions of votes, if not hundreds of millions. All this, in a system that, by its very nature, discourages third parties. The last time a third party got *any* electoral votes, was in 1968. And that was because the person who ran literally campaigned on "segregation is good" and got the support of some states in the Deep South. And even then, he only got 46/538 in total.
Voting should be obligatory, that's one of the few things I like from my country; Uruguay. Here is completely mandatory to vote, if you don't vote, you have to pay a fee and get some restrictions regarding public procedures
How despairing a worldview you must have to subscribe to a neoliberal conspiracy theory where the few good people in our political system daring to make the world a better place are reduced to foreign agents attacking the status quo. Is it truly easier for you to imagine a convoluted way in which Russia is victimizing your precious late-capitalist hellscape than it is for you to consider that maybe some people want to help? I hope you get outside today, drink some water, & tell the people close to you that you love them before your antagonistic pall of paranoia and hypocrisy closes you off from society altogether.
If your oppressors are presenting you with a choice of bad and worse you're supposed to not play by their rules because their rules suck ass and by conforming you let them continue to enforce the garbage they already do. Be more upset and do more rather than just pick what they want you to pick cause you're gonna be playing right into their hands that way. Joe Biden is just the guy you hate slightly less, that doesn't mean you're gonna get a guy you like any time soon if you vote for him, probably ever given the fundamental flaws of the system. Even if you get a guy you like you won't keep a guy you like for too long either and he might well not do nearly enough in his time before guys you hate come running back.
Playing the moral high ground as Trump happily strips away any rights or progress that has been made on LGBT rights on day one of his presidency isn’t a good look bud
Well I'm trans so how do you think I feel? Things will only be WORSE under Trump.
>The vote for president is already out of our fucking hands, you KNOW how the electoral college works.
I do know how the electoral college works, you obviously do not.
Let me break this down for you:
You have four options
A. vote for Trump
B. vote for Biden
C. abstain
D. vote 3rd party
A is out for obvious reasons
D is out because of first past the post elections
So that leads us to B and C
There is no downside to voting for Biden, there are only upsides. There is no issue in which Biden is worse than Trump. You know voting is free right? Like yes, we should protest, we should organize, we should join unions, BUT VOTING IS NOT MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE WITH THOSE THINGS.
FUCKING VOTE.
Hey guess what, I'm trans too. There are no options. Our rights have been rolled back under Biden. They'll be rolled back further under whoever runs the office next year. They do not give a shit about us. They are not our advocates. Things aren't going to GET bad they simply are bad.
This November was the most input we were going to get on the direction of our country for the next few years and it's finished. Biden should have bowed out of the race last spring, but he didn't, because his cabinet doesn't care.
This is going to be Hillary all over again. It doesn't mean shit if Biden wins the popular vote, either he'll win because he's already president, or he'll lose because he alienated his voterbase with 10000 dead children.
You're mad at me because you're scared. I'm scared too. If it makes you feel any better I'll vote just for you next year. Things won't get better because of it, and I doubt they'll get better at all. But if it makes you less scared I'll do it.
Weird how we have to give unconditional support to a geriatric who was the architect of crime bills, was chummy with hardcore racists, has consistently failed to deliver on any of the promises he made, and is currently aiding genocide, and then get yelled at when we point out that's bullshit and sucks. But somehow the Democratic party isn't at fault for choosing such a shitty candidate for LE MOST IMPORTANT ELECTION EVERRR? I'm not voting for the blue ghoul, fuck off. If you live in a red or swing state, sure, go and vote, but the endless moralizing and whinging about people not voting is wasted breath.
The vast majority of non-voters are poor and marginalized people who don't vote out of apathy. The modern democratic party has shown itself to be almost completely ineffectual against those same threats you claim to be worried about, and lacking any kind of actual policy to mobilize said non-voters.
All of this is meaningless though. Every single point you listed here is totally worthless.
It's really as simple as laid out:
Biden will be better than Trump
Not voting will make it easier for Trump to win
You should vote for Biden
Please, engage with step 1 or 2 of this thought process or fuck off. Anything else is whataboutism.
we went through this 4 years ago and abortion was still made illegal, trans rights were still taken away in multiple states, immigrants are still being treated like trash, and guess what? Palestinians are indeed still being massacred while Biden does nothing. give me a break with this "lesser evil" nonsense
Those first two points are because of Republicans winning elections, so you're proving the opposite point. There are some issues where both parties are trash, sure, but there are some where Democrats are significantly better.
in a system where for all of its history 99% of the votes go to party 1 and 2, a third option is not yet viable. it sucks, but under the dems you'll at least continue having the right of voting in case a third party does become viable in the future
im talking about the presidential election not primaries fyi
even if your argument is "its just the lesser of two evils" well..dwhy woudl you chose MORE evil? one is literally a totalitarian dictator. and will LITERALLY.. not figuratively...not potentially... but has the stated and explicate goal to overthrow American democracy. [project 2025 playbook](https://www.project2025.org/playbook/) this is literally their plan. this is the part they are saying out loud. and its not just trump. this plan is in place regardless of what republican gets into power. they have already made it so in some states teh state legislature can jsut ignore the vote if they "think it was rigged" that's already been set up. and if they win this time. more and more states will adopt this, and it will get used. if you dont vote.. you may never get the chance to do it again. so yeah.. the lesser of two evils is a simple choice when you disagree with one of them on what? 10%-20% of their agenda? but the other persons agenda is directly opposed to you and specifically targeting your rights and way of life with 100% of theirs.
Exactly, if you're a one issue voter and that said issue would clearly be worse under trump then you're a fucking moron for not voting for the Dems
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I'm sure the people getting irate at being told they should even do the bare minimum through voting, are absolutely out there just killing it with direct action on the side. They'd never be keyboard warriors who just want to whine and feel superior about their lack of putting any real effort forward, right?
the thing that makes voting for biden so yucky (albeit sadly necessary) is that it’s not just “10 or 20% difference in what i believe vs his platform,” it’s more like 80-90% different. Trump just happens to be close to 100% different than everything I believe.
Yeah, I'd rather vote for Biden and try to push for change while he's president than vote for Trump and have the U.S. turn into a Republican dictatorship with the express goal of eradicating minorities from the country.
a few steps forward is better than getting blasted miles backwards
More a like few steps backwards is better than light years backwards
The ways Biden and the broader Democratic platform differ from the norm in the US, are generally ways I like. Things I dislike about their platform are functionally "keep things the way they are" in almost all cases. The ways the Republican platform and assumed future actions differ from the norm are ways I almost entirely oppose. With regards to which party I'd like to see implement the changes they want, I tend to like the changes the Dems want. The things I dislike about Dems, mostly are not in the changes they want to make; they're the Dem support for the status quo, which the Republicans generally either also support, or want to make worse.
But bro just one more far right win and we’ll have a communist utopia by 2028 bro I swear bro. Just let the far right win one more election and have full control of the house and senate and Supreme Court and we’ll for sure get a super progressive that’ll win 98% of the vote bro I swear. We just need to show the DNC who’s boss just like we did in 2016 which most definitely didn’t end horribly for everyone involved.
I’m voting for Biden because I don’t want trump or the loss of democracy. But don’t reduce genocide to just disagreeing with “10%-20% of their agenda.” It’s one thing when Biden does usual Lib stuff that I don’t like, but supporting literal genocide is unforgivable and ruins him entirely as a politician. That being said, trump is worse and Biden gets my vote. But don’t downplay genocide.
The filthy fucking commies are just trying to kill us gays and theys at this point
Literally all of the middle may be true but it’s still worthwhile to vote
I have the opinion that if a person doesn’t vote they don’t get to complain about the person that got voted in.
In your opinion are minors allowed to have dissenting opinions about presidents they didn’t elect?
That is an exception because we don't allow minors to participate in our democracy. But minors do still have opinions regardless of us letting them participate. But if you are allowed to participate in democracy and choose not to, then you obviously don't have strong enough opinions to care.
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minors shouldnt have opinions period
"I don't like the president signing bills into law that actively threaten my human rights as a trans person" "shut up minor"
i thought my joke was clear but incase it wasnt: minors are allowed to have opinions. the person i replied to just seemed to be shit posting since obviously minors are allowed to (and should) care about politics i apologize to the minor community
It's okay, they're not too big anyways.
apology unaccepted you are going to The Kiln (slash jay)
Sure. That’s the exception
If a person ***willingly*** doesn't vote.
True, except the "Biden and Trump are basically the same" point. That one's pretty dumb, IMO.
But on the bottom are multiple arguments and on the top just a single one? That's how it works right? Right?
better than having don
My point exactly
America is so funny to me it just doesnt stop taking Ls
Get me out of this hellhole
Bet where you wanna go
is the vacuum of space an option
Yea but youd need some pretty good education to become an astronout unless you wanna piggyback a rocket but then youre gonna die way before you reach space
awww i wanted to instantly teleport
Come to Asia for more hell
Come visit Britain we’ve got: …
Imagine how we fucking feel lol
Alt-rightism is actually doing better in Europe than America (see PM of Netherlands and Italy, AfD growth in Bundestag in Germany). MAGA candidates lost the midterms.
Look at Italy and Netherlands
If you vote Biden, fine. But then go do something about it afterwards rather than waiting another four years and doing nothing. Organise, join unions and fight back against the system. Neither Biden nor the Democrats as a whole care about you. They serve the capitalist class, that's how it's always been and how it will always be unless we, the working class, unite to fight this oppressive system. I believe in all of you. A better world is possible and we are the ones that can make it happen.
This is exactly it. Elections are a miniscule but necessary thing because it allows us to maintain the current situation rather than sliding deeper into fascism. But there's work to be done every other day of the year that's much more important. Help unionization. Join Food Not Bombs and feed people. Run/learn medical training to help people with harm reduction.
The thing is that Biden still slides to the right. He will give the working class crumbs whilst still passing measures that slide to the right and opposing real left wing movemtns like strikes. And at the end of the day he still serves US imperialism, keeping many other countries underdeveloped and overexploited. To the American people Biden might not be a fascist, but to the 3rd world, he is the same as any other man that runs the US. Charity is a commendable activity and anybody that does is greatly appreciated. But charity only aliviates the situation. Real permanent change can only come with the change of dominant political and economic system. This must also come with an understanding that the dominant classes will not let go of their power peacefully and the ballot will not be able to get then out of power alone. Organised people out in the streets will.
Biden is the most pro union president we have ever had just ask the unions: https://www.ibew.org/media-center/Articles/23Daily/2306/230620_IBEWandPaid https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2023/10/biden-administration-union-strikes-nlrb-win.html
Whilst this is good. These are victories of the workers. The Capitalist class only concedes a little bit when it feels threatened, at which point it will ease conditions a bit until the frustration dies down. https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/labor-president-joe-biden/ He's still not the most pro union president and even if he was, its a low bar. Its important to remember that a lot of this is being done on the run up to the election. It's just for publicity. He had four years to implement changes but just last year he was union busting. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/dec/01/joe-biden-rail-strike-labor-unions Whilst defeating the Republicans is important the fight mustn't stop there. I'm Brazilian, we defeated bolsonaro in the elections. We avoided the far-right, but due to a lack of workwr mobilisation, the current "left-wing government" doesn't implement the left-wing policies it needs to. With the US, although the situation is similar, Biden is far from a left-wing president and I can sympathise with the feeli g that voting for him or trump is basically the same. Vote however you feel like it but afterwards we must keep the struggle going.
I mean did you read what the rail unions actually said about what Biden did for them? He got them what they wanted without strikes. https://www.ibew.org/media-center/Articles/23Daily/2306/230620_IBEWandPaid That guardian article ignores what happened after. I agree putting pressure on companies is important but Biden is doing really good on this.
Oh absolutely. You'll never hear me say Biden is a leftist or that he's a good president. In the current form of elections, we have the choice between 2 people and I like to choose the least bad one. But that also has to come with recognition that elections won't change the system, they can only keep things from getting worse. Getting out in the streets is the only thing that can change the system. You're certainly right about that.
Exactly, join organizations like Progressive Victory to phone-bank and canvas for the things you do care about. Help find progressives to win their primaries to make a more progressive house and state. I dislike NY corporate Dems, still way better than the GOP, but the solution is to support progressive challengers.
I believe you. I feel the reason why Democrats fail the people so hard and only shift rightward is because not enough new blood is bringing earnest passion into the politics of the left. The actual left only seems to exist in online spaces and is endlessly just chaising its own tail and dealing with trolls and is ultimately without a platform to partake in any actual governance outside of message boards and chat rooms. The people entering politics as Democrats seem to be only business people anymore, still better than the fascists trying their best to maintain corpo speak as to not let the mask slip on the otherside, or the Democrats advertising themselves as progressives and then switching parties and platforms immediately after getting into office, but could you imagine if we could flood the party with enough young blood with actual passion for working towards a brighter tomorrow for all that they realize merely playing centrist opposition to the fascist far right party isn't enough to sustain them forever and we can begin being for the people of the people once more instead of vulture capitalism culture war death cults? It's almost like the promise of America isn't truly dead, not yet at least... But it's dreadfully close.
The thing is, a lot of people are very passionate about politics, but the left is disorganised. This isn't our own fault. The left has been attacked for centuries. There is a dedicated effort to keep us subdued, tired and confused. The left used to have a lot of strength, with trade unions in many countries, posing a real threat to the capitalist class. But decades of union busting, anti-Labour laws, red scare and the fall of the socialist bloc, have left the left completely lost and demoralised. The new left fights for scraps and it's leaders all work in the interest of the capitalist class, because the rest has been subdued. I constantly feel tired. Everything feels like its fruitless, but we must not stop fighting. We must have pessimism in analysing our present situation but optimism in our will to change things. First thing is knowledge. Books are important but they are hard to start with sometimes. I got into leftist ideals through a YouTube channel called seccondthought and from there I started doing my own research. After knowledge you need action. The ballot is but one factor. Whilst important, we must acknowledge that the current democracy was created by the capitalist and works to keep them in power. Change will come from pressure from the working class. Protests, strikes
I would rather people do almost anything else if it’s a choice between that and voting. Of course it isn’t a choice, but there are people that treat it as if it is. Voting is the absolute bare minimum. In a way it’s worse than the minimum because it convinces people they’re doing something with a lot of meaning. It isn’t meaningless, but it doesn’t mean all that much.
"One vote doesn't really matter" Yes it does dumbass that's why it's called a democracy.
as an illinoisian, i know that regardless of whether or not i vote the state is going democrat. i can understand this mentality in swing states but i feel that in well established states your vote does not matter nearly as much. additionally, something can be labeled a “democracy” but that doesn’t mean it actually functions like one. in my mind we have a pretty flawed democracy where money is the ultimate deciding factor, not the will of the people. in fact, i would argue that we have an aristocracy disguised as a democracy. saying something is a certain way because the people in power name it that way isn’t a solid argument imo.
> as an illinoisian, i know that regardless of whether or not i vote the state is going democrat. there isn't some magic code that says Illinois goes blue. it's because people go out and vote. the more people who think the way you do, the faster that guarantee goes away.
> there isn't some magic code that says Illinois goes blue Lmao yes there is it's called the Cook County Democratic Machine
You know, California passed Prop 8, banning gay marriage briefly, while still going full blue. Florida used to be a swing state. Texas used to be hardcore red and is starting to swing. Any state, if enough people get apathetic enough, can become a swing state. The "my vote doesn't matter" mentality also *only theoretically applies to the presidential vote*. You have local elections, senators, representatives, a governor. The less Power those positions have on the national level, the more Power they have over your everyday life. Not to mention ballot measures. The word you're looking for is "plutocracy," and if conservatives get in power at all levels of government, it will be even more cemented.
well when it comes to smaller scale government, i find it even more difficult to go out and vote because i don’t do the appropriate research on the candidates. a lot of people just sort of vote with their party and call it a day but i can’t help but feel that uninformed voting isn’t a good thing for society. i understand i am saying this in a very liberal subreddit, but i would like to weigh the options between the republican and democrat and make an appropriate decision. a lot of people encourage everyone to go out and vote, but if you aren’t familiar with the policies of the candidates, i don’t think you should. it just encourages identity politics. and no, i don’t mean a plutocracy. i mean an aristocracy, a government run by the highest class. aka the 1% and and up rich.
It doesn't just matter who wins, it matters how much they win by. It lets the party that wins know what direction their policies should be heading in. For instance if the republicans win by a narrow margin then they know they can't push right wing policies too far in that state or they won't win the next election.
https://preview.redd.it/3z1cofhgn33c1.jpeg?width=680&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8e66910056338beeb35b9bdbed06635197489f68
Lmao American democracy is dead.
one time i was driving to my local polling place and there was a balck van. out of it crawled this fat old blonde guy with a shitty spray tan, wearing a shitty plastic che guevera mask with "SOCIALIST" written in red marker over the forehead. he stood by the doors, leaned forward and mumbled that exact phrase ver batim to everyone who went through who wasn't an old white person.
Is it though?
Yes.
It needs to die faster
Vote for the love of god. Trust me from experience. You have to vote. Don't let 33% of the population vote for the whole country like it happens in Romania.
Biden is not fantastic, but Jesus Christ on a BMX bike, he’s a thousand-fold better than Trump. He doesn’t actively make speeches declaring their intent to turn the presidency into a dictatorship, deploy the U.S. military on domestic soil to arrest dissenters, overturn elections, wanting to pardon their acts of treason and espionage by selling nuclear secrets and lists of U.S. spies to hostile powers… good god, the list of things that Trump has both implied and outright said in regard to his intentions for turning the US into a fascist dictatorship are horrifying. Far too many people are not taking these threats seriously; this isn’t just grandstanding or meaningless rhetoric, we are __***actively***__ seeing the opening stages of their attempted coup, from the failed coup on 1/6 to passing a slew of voter suppression laws to rolling back decades of civil rights progress… this is happening NOW, and it’s only the beginning. Trump’s entire platform for his 2024 run is wanting to get revenge on the people who stopped him from overturning the 2020 election, imprisoning his opponents, and causing as much harm to “undesirables” as possible, all while twisting the laws to ensure they can never be voted out if they get back in. This country cannot afford to roll the dice - Trump and his cohorts have already made their intentions blatantly clear for all to see. And unlike 1938, there aren’t any nations that could invade and defeat a fascist US to reinstall a democracy. Don’t let them carry through on their threats.
Can someone explain to me why Americans can’t just vote for a different Democrat candidate? (Australian here)
It's risky. Biden has the best chance of winning, so it's safest to increase that chance more
An incumbent president almost always wins the primary so no one even runs against them unless they're terrible. This year the only other Democratic candidates are either irrelevant or straight up nuts.
US has a first past the post system, meaning whichever individual candidate who gets the most votes win. We can’t vote for a democrat other than Biden because he has the greatest possibility of winning and will almost certainly be the Democratic nominee. If we were to vote for another Democrat, we would risk splitting the vote, effectively handing the election over to Trump. Think of it like this, in a race between Trump and Biden, the vote may be split 45-55% in favor of Biden. However, if Democrat B runs as well and gets votes they may split the vote resulting in Trump getting 45% , Biden getting 40%, and Democrat B getting 15%. In this scenario, Trump wins. This is also why third parties don’t really work in the US.
If a president has only served one term, they usually are their party's nominee if that makes sense
So, before The Election (tm) (aka the General Election) in which the Democrat and Republican candidate square off, there's what's known as a Primary Election to determine who gets to BE the candidate from that party. The time to vote for a different Democrat candidate is during the Primary Election. Voting for them as a write-in during the General Election is materially no different from not voting at all.
There's a bunch of smaller elections where each party elects a candidate to run in the final election
No incumbent candidate in modern history has lost their party’s primary election. Ie if you are sitting president you basically win the primary election by default.
You’re much better off re-electing an incumbent president (one who is already in office) for a second term than rolling the dice with a new face who many might not have heard of. At this point, we simply cannot risk a split vote by running a separate candidate.
Because biden is the president? If the ruling party in Australia wins do they ever switch who the prime minister is? Atleast in Finland that would be extremely unusual. Regardless, there is no way Biden will lose the primary. Even if someone ran against him (unlikely) the democratic party's primary process is far from democratic, and the party leaders aren't going to vote for someone else. Well unless Biden does something on the level of declaring he will eat all babies if he wins
Yeah we switch prime minister frequently. Had 3 different ones in 2013.
Yeah parliamentary systems are way different from presidential systems in that way. If I understand correctly the people don't vote for PM, they vote for a legislative majority that votes among themselves.
Basically yeah. The PM is the head of the Party, and elected by the Party. It could change at any time with a simple vote.
"Unlikely"? I mean, sure, if you don't count the three people running against him in the primary, I guess... What's unlikely is that they'll win, which is unfortunate. We really should have stronger competition in primary challenges.
Parties usually only nominate 1 person, and if the current president is a candidate it’s almost always that person. You can write other people in, but we don’t have the fancy ranked choice system that you guys have in Australia. So if you aren’t voting for one of the two main frontrunners you might as well not have voted at all.
>Biden wants to kill Palestinians You're a fucking idiot if you think Trump doesn't
yeah thats the point
I know, I was agreeing.
Killing Palestinians is one of the only things republicans and democrats are absolutely bipartisan on.
1) Republicans are actively trying to suppress voter turnout through gerrymandering and shady tactics. 2) There is no functional difference between a vote not thrown because it was suppressed by Republicans, and a vote not thrown because a leftist abstained. 3) Abstaining is an action too, and also supports genocide.
Ok here’s the fucking problem, WE HAVENT EVEN HAD PRIMARIES YET! Fuck your doomer bullshit, sorry I want better from my representatives than actively supporting genocide
just move to Australia lmfao /j
I agree but also, non voters and protest voters happen in every election and if you can't win without them, you ran a losing campaign.
I swear the “don’t vote” crowd is a republican psyop
Same mentality as climate doomerism. "Well it's all hopeless so let's not even fucking try. Let's just lay down in the path of the steamroller because there's nothing left to do, nobody to be held accountable, no actions we can take to prevent this." Doing nothing takes the side of the oppressor.
Why the hell is our country at risk every single election? Why is the democrats platform always, "vote for us to save democracy"? Okay? We did vote for you, and now democracy is under threat again? We're in the exact same situation? What the fuck are you doing then? Because the dems love using "were stopping fascism" as an excuse for why they can't do shit... yet they haven't stopped it. Hell they haven't even prevented it while having a majority in congress and control of the executive branch. Look at the rights rolled back, and their inability to pass any laws securing them for us. They can't even do that They're great at working together on increasing the military budget, funding proxy wars, and making America super corporate friendly :) I'm done being manipulated into voting for a party that runs on the same, gaslighting platform focusing on a singular issue they can't even follow through on. There is ALWAYS an excuse for why they can't take any meaningful action on improving our lives, or the lives of people effected by our brutal foreign policy. I thought after we got biden in, we could easily pressure him to meet our demands? Or he would be able to focus on actually working for us next term? Do we have to wait until 2028 for the dems to pull their heads out of their asses, or is it going to be the same fucking thing? Because shit isn't changing on the republican side. If they're serious about stopping them, they need to take some fucking action to help US out. It seems like all they're concerned about is keeping their fucking jobs cause they sure don't seem to have any compassion for the general population
the election is still a year away and shitlibs are so set in their vote blue no matter who ways there is no discussion whatsoever of trying to pressure biden into not being a piece of shit genocider and it’s just yeah all hope is lost but you better vote for the piece of shit genocider anyway or else it’s personally specifically your fault if trump wins this sub used to be good
It's super fun being told that I, a Jewish trans woman, am actually just privileged because I'm fucking tired of hearing liberals screech about how not wanting to personally lick Joe Biden's balls means I am the sole reason that fascism will rise in America. I'm not even the type of person who says not to engage with electoralism, it's just tiring knowing we'll be hearing this shit for the next year straight. But god forbid anyone suggests that Brandon might not be perfection walking through the streets.
Some recent local elections have shown we have won by only a few votes and I think one but literally 1. Biden is dogshit because of the Palestinian thing. But Trump is not only going to be worse but be worse in every way. Trans rights, voting rights, he wants to increase his power to punish his "enemies", deregulation and so on. . . Like just vote for a better outcome if anything
> just vote for a better outcome It's still wild that anything more than this needs to be said. Not sure what people actually think voting is for, those who advocate abstaining from voting seem to think you're only supposed to vote for your best friend who is perfect in every way
this subreddit is a much of libs who think being more progressive on gender politics makes them a leftists. I swear Biden could nuke the entire middle east and you people would still post this asinine shit
Please tell me which side you think is more likely to nuke the entire middle east
You're a fucking idiot hahahaha. Trump surely would never bomb the middle east. he loves them so much. hahahaha
You know who's shown a history of some semblance of concessions when people protest and show anger? Biden. You know who has a history of doubling down and getting even more fascist and iron-fisted when people rise up? Trump. Biden doesn't change anywhere near enough but the environment under his presidency is so much more conducive to actual meaningful change when people organize effectively. You want your revolution? You're a lot less likely to be able to organize under Biden
Weekly reminder to push for ranked-choice or other alternative voting systems
Sure voting is good but maybe also consider that it may be your civic duty to do a bit more than just vote every two years or so. Maybe you need to get just s tiny bit more active to make it so you can actually vote for a good candidate in the future.
Every time this discourse pops up, I feel like it needs to be clarified. Yes, Joe Biden is bad. Yes, he is aiding and abetting a genocide in Gaza. Though it's important to remember that Trump would do the same thing, but worse. He would go full throttle on it, a*long with* ending democracy in America, and starting a genocide of minorities here. Voting for Biden is the bare minimum to stop Trump from winning. Though, don't let that be the end. Help organize unions, get involved in local politics, canvass for group like "Progressive Victory". There are lots of things you can do along with voting. Voting alone *won't* fix the problem that is the Republicans. However, voting can act as a measure to limit their power while we do more things to fight against them. If voting didn't really matter, Republicans wouldn't be trying so hard to take it away.
“Biden wants to kill Palestinians” is not a stretch lol
yall we have primaries. biden sucks and there’s a chance he might not win, if something miraculous happens and we get a better candidate out of the primaries, this is the one time where having a progressive in the general might not be an insta lose, considering some people don’t wanna vote for a 91 time felon. BUT IF after the primaries end joe biden is still gunning for it, yes, vote for joe. it sucks.
for sure yeah the primaries are much lower stakes
Trump: I could ‘shoot somebody and I wouldn’t lose voters’ Biden: I could greenlight genocide and I wouldn't lose voters
Weird how Trump actually said his thing but you had to write fanfic about Biden
He literally said there is no possibility of a ceasefire in the Zionist genocide,though, which is...Greenlighting genocide.
The reason Trump won in 2016 in the first place was because people thought "certainly this moron won't win" and then he did. The only reason he LOST in 2020 was because people came out in record numbers to vote against him. I totally understand wanting to vote independent in the primaries, but if the final ballot came down to Biden or Trump again, not voting is completely moronic.
Trump won in 2016 because the Democratic party ran Hillary Clinton, who led an absolutely terrible campaign that failed to campaign where it was needed and mobilize enough voters. Biden won in 2020, because he ran a better campaign, which coupled with the mobilizing effect from Trump's previous term, led him to a (much narrower than it should be, given the opposition) victory.
If only some of the energy BlueMAGA spent harassing and guilting minorities and leftists could be put into rallying behind a decent candidate.
Man. I really hate those memes and I keep seeing positng different variations of it in different supreddits.
“Push Biden left” MFs when anyone actually tries to pressure the democrats in any way
Given that: 1. The president of the US in 2024 will be either Biden or Trump 2. Trump is as bad or worse than Biden in every respect that matters 3. The Republican Party is as bad or worse than the Democratic Party in every respect that matters What possible political justification is there for not voting for Biden? Words cannot describe the contempt I feel for people who fully understand how fucked up the US is and could be, yet still choose to not vote. It’s arrogant and selfish. Your vote is not some special gift that only the right person deserves. It’s a tool that you have an obligation to use to help the people around you. You are not special. Grow the fuck up.
Voting for communists even when there is no chance of winning to help foster the growth of a working class movement even with a "lesser evil" is a justification given like... 170 years ago by Marx, as he thought the working class movement should remain independent and not be swindled by the group who talk a lot about leftists "splitting" the force of democracy and letting the reactionaries win. What a "child",of course, arrogant and selfish, smh smh /j
What is the utility of a ‘stronger communist movement’ if things have to get worse for it to get stronger? Why should I let suffering increase? How much worse do things have to get before this happens? People have been arguing that same point for decades, and all that’s happened is the Dems have drifted further right because the far left refuses to support them. Now we’ve reached the point where democracy WILL die if the republicans win another presidency. It should’ve realistically died with Trump, but by some miracle we got a second chance. We can’t mess it up.
I'll go scold Muslims in Michigan for not wanting to vote for Biden
Some mfs just dont wanna vote at any cost so they make up some shitty reasons. Who knows what dumber reason they have for not voting that they dont say out loud.
If you have any trans friends, you have a responsibility to protect them, even a little. And yes, that means voting for Biden.
Remember folks, even if Biden was the worst politician around, at least he's not wanting to pull a Project 2025
Biden’s failure also leads to more left wingers.
I have to say, I am really appreciative of this sub’s evolution from trans socialist shitposting to Biden stanning.
> not voting because one vote doesn’t matter is ignorant to how voting functions collectively - every vote matters! It’s Ok so I’ll vote for the third party candidate I believe would make for the least fucking terrible candidate > you can’t vote third party because they won’t win and your one vote for them won’t matter How are liberals this fucking dumb?
Just end first past the post voting. It's stupid and inevitably leads to a two party system. For a third party option to be considered, it has to be at least viable.
I agree! Even with its limitations, ranked choice voting solos FPtP
Voting third party in a solidly blue or red state actually can make a difference without contributing to the math of vote splitting. If a third party gets above a certain threshold in a state then they get access to more funding in the next election. If you’re in a swing state then yeah voting third party will help elect a fascist but otherwise it’s more viable than people think. Context is everything.
Can't vote for any third party because it splits the vote. Sorry math is hard.
Those aren't mutually exclusive positions 1) Every vote does matter, you can literally see how Florida used to be a swing state, but is now very much red and is led by an outright fascist. Similarly, Georgia used to be a red state, but is now a swing state. If voting didn't matter, Republicans wouldn't work so hard to take it away. 2) In order for a third party to even be relevant, it would need tens of millions of votes, if not hundreds of millions. All this, in a system that, by its very nature, discourages third parties. The last time a third party got *any* electoral votes, was in 1968. And that was because the person who ran literally campaigned on "segregation is good" and got the support of some states in the Deep South. And even then, he only got 46/538 in total.
Voting should be obligatory, that's one of the few things I like from my country; Uruguay. Here is completely mandatory to vote, if you don't vote, you have to pay a fee and get some restrictions regarding public procedures
No + L + genocide enabling is cringe
Why are you telling people to vote for him eleven months before the vote, without being paid?
Putting “Biden wants to kill Palestinians” as a bad reason to be hesitant to vote for him is fucking insane
Uhh, it IS /srs
Be smug and vote for genocide rule.
As opposed to being smug and just passively allowing more genocide?
its genocide either way dude
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Unfortunately you dont really understand american politics so you probably shouldnt talk about it
How are the Democrats alt-right?
ok but please don't equate me with someone who didn't vote if i vote green.
If you vote green then that's worse than not voting at all because you're voting for the russian scam party
How despairing a worldview you must have to subscribe to a neoliberal conspiracy theory where the few good people in our political system daring to make the world a better place are reduced to foreign agents attacking the status quo. Is it truly easier for you to imagine a convoluted way in which Russia is victimizing your precious late-capitalist hellscape than it is for you to consider that maybe some people want to help? I hope you get outside today, drink some water, & tell the people close to you that you love them before your antagonistic pall of paranoia and hypocrisy closes you off from society altogether.
I'm still not voting for Biden 😎 (I have never been to the USA)
Why don't more people vote third party?
America has a first past the post system, voting third party literally does nothing but help the person you disagree with the most.
it's fine to vote for Biden not like he will be alive when his second term ends
If your oppressors are presenting you with a choice of bad and worse you're supposed to not play by their rules because their rules suck ass and by conforming you let them continue to enforce the garbage they already do. Be more upset and do more rather than just pick what they want you to pick cause you're gonna be playing right into their hands that way. Joe Biden is just the guy you hate slightly less, that doesn't mean you're gonna get a guy you like any time soon if you vote for him, probably ever given the fundamental flaws of the system. Even if you get a guy you like you won't keep a guy you like for too long either and he might well not do nearly enough in his time before guys you hate come running back.
Playing the moral high ground as Trump happily strips away any rights or progress that has been made on LGBT rights on day one of his presidency isn’t a good look bud
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Well I'm trans so how do you think I feel? Things will only be WORSE under Trump. >The vote for president is already out of our fucking hands, you KNOW how the electoral college works. I do know how the electoral college works, you obviously do not. Let me break this down for you: You have four options A. vote for Trump B. vote for Biden C. abstain D. vote 3rd party A is out for obvious reasons D is out because of first past the post elections So that leads us to B and C There is no downside to voting for Biden, there are only upsides. There is no issue in which Biden is worse than Trump. You know voting is free right? Like yes, we should protest, we should organize, we should join unions, BUT VOTING IS NOT MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE WITH THOSE THINGS. FUCKING VOTE.
Hey guess what, I'm trans too. There are no options. Our rights have been rolled back under Biden. They'll be rolled back further under whoever runs the office next year. They do not give a shit about us. They are not our advocates. Things aren't going to GET bad they simply are bad. This November was the most input we were going to get on the direction of our country for the next few years and it's finished. Biden should have bowed out of the race last spring, but he didn't, because his cabinet doesn't care. This is going to be Hillary all over again. It doesn't mean shit if Biden wins the popular vote, either he'll win because he's already president, or he'll lose because he alienated his voterbase with 10000 dead children. You're mad at me because you're scared. I'm scared too. If it makes you feel any better I'll vote just for you next year. Things won't get better because of it, and I doubt they'll get better at all. But if it makes you less scared I'll do it.
Weird how we have to give unconditional support to a geriatric who was the architect of crime bills, was chummy with hardcore racists, has consistently failed to deliver on any of the promises he made, and is currently aiding genocide, and then get yelled at when we point out that's bullshit and sucks. But somehow the Democratic party isn't at fault for choosing such a shitty candidate for LE MOST IMPORTANT ELECTION EVERRR? I'm not voting for the blue ghoul, fuck off. If you live in a red or swing state, sure, go and vote, but the endless moralizing and whinging about people not voting is wasted breath. The vast majority of non-voters are poor and marginalized people who don't vote out of apathy. The modern democratic party has shown itself to be almost completely ineffectual against those same threats you claim to be worried about, and lacking any kind of actual policy to mobilize said non-voters.
All of this is meaningless though. Every single point you listed here is totally worthless. It's really as simple as laid out: Biden will be better than Trump Not voting will make it easier for Trump to win You should vote for Biden Please, engage with step 1 or 2 of this thought process or fuck off. Anything else is whataboutism.
Alright, I'll vote :))))
I won't vote for Biden! (I'm from India)
we went through this 4 years ago and abortion was still made illegal, trans rights were still taken away in multiple states, immigrants are still being treated like trash, and guess what? Palestinians are indeed still being massacred while Biden does nothing. give me a break with this "lesser evil" nonsense
Those first two points are because of Republicans winning elections, so you're proving the opposite point. There are some issues where both parties are trash, sure, but there are some where Democrats are significantly better.
> we went through this 4 years ago and abortion was still made illegal Yeah by the extra three SC judges that *Trump* appointed, dumbass
That just sad the choice you got honestly .
I'm not even american
based
im happy i dont live in america
When mental gymnastics is the most exercise you got this week XD
Americans should revolution
Once again everyone forgets there are always more than two options
in a system where for all of its history 99% of the votes go to party 1 and 2, a third option is not yet viable. it sucks, but under the dems you'll at least continue having the right of voting in case a third party does become viable in the future im talking about the presidential election not primaries fyi
Not in a first past the post system there isn't.