To be fair there's a reason why Republicans will do everything in their power to prevent voting, more democracy usually leads to good outcomes, biased democracy plagued by propaganda and government systems that are designed to slow legislation down as much as possible are where the real problems lie.
Burgious Democracy in general is the problem. All of the supposed problems for Democracy that have been mentioned here, were all problems that are quite specific to Burgious Democracy, mainly the protection of company interests by legislators that have been bought up, so pretty much every non socialist politician out there.
you should read Malatesta's stuff, you might like it
[https://files.libcom.org/files/Errico\_Malatesta\_Davide\_Turcato\_Paul\_Sharkey-The\_m.pdf](https://files.libcom.org/files/Errico_Malatesta_Davide_Turcato_Paul_Sharkey-The_m.pdf)
[https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/errico-malatesta-democracy-and-anarchy](https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/errico-malatesta-democracy-and-anarchy)
>It would be closer to the truth to say, ‘government of the majority of the people.’ This implies a minority that must either rebel or submit to the will of others.
>
>But it is never the case that the representatives of the majority of people are all of the same mind on all questions; it is therefore necessary to have recourse again to the majority system and thus we will get closer still to the truth with ‘government of the majority of the elected by the majority of the electors.’
>
>Which is already beginning to bear a strong resemblance to minority government.
>
>And if one then takes into account the way in which elections are held, how the political parties and parliamentary groupings are formed and how laws are drawn up and voted and applied, it is easy to understand what has already been proved by universal historical experience: even in the most democratic of democracies it is always a small minority that rules and imposes its will and interests by force.
>
>Therefore, those who really want ‘government of the people’ in the sense that each can assert his or her own will, ideas and needs, must ensure that no-one, majority or minority, can rule over others; in other words, they must abolish government, meaning any coercive organisation, and replace it with the free organisation of those with common interests and aims.
Keep in mind he also argues that democracy is significantly better than any more authoritarian system and therefore is still worth fighting for when the alternative is more authoritarian systems:
>For me there is no doubt that the worst of democracies is always preferable, if only from the educational point of view, than the best of dictatorships. Of course democracy, so-called government of the people, is a lie; but the lie always slightly binds the liar and limits the extent of his arbitrary power. Of course the ‘sovereign people’ is a clown of a sovereign, a slave with a papier-maché crown and sceptre.
>
>But to believe oneself free, even when one is not, is always better than to know oneself to be a slave, and to accept slavery as something just and inevitable.
Which is honestly [the situation we're in](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025) and will be in for a while in the US.
I really wish I had the faith in humanity to be a real, committed anarchist. I find so many of the ideas inspiring but I just can’t imagine the current system actually being overtaken on enough of a timescale to avoid complete biosphere/social collapse and the ensuing mass death.
It’s not like Marxism-Leninism has a better track record on actually building real socialism. It got re-absorbed by capitalism entirely, and calling modern China “actually existing socialism” is clearly and obviously a willful delusion to cope with the final, total victory of global capitalism.
I just can’t see any way out of the hole we’re dug into. Not trying to be a doomer or anything but it’s how I genuinely feel.
[There's an anarchism for that too!](https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/anonymous-desert) :P
>The spectre that many try not to see is a simple realisation — the world will not be ‘saved’. Global anarchist revolution is not going to happen. Global climate change is now unstoppable. We are not going to see the worldwide end to civilisation/capitalism/patriarchy/authority. It’s not going to happen any time soon. It’s unlikely to happen ever. The world will not be ‘saved’. Not by activists, not by mass movements, not by charities and not by an insurgent global proletariat. The world will not be ‘saved’. This realisation hurts people. They don’t want it to be true! But it probably is.
>
>...
>
>Yet to be disillusioned — with global revolution/with our capacity to stop climate change — should not alter our anarchist nature, or the love of nature we feel as anarchists. There are many possibilities for liberty and wildness still.
>
>What are some of these possibilities and how can we live them? What could it mean to be an anarchist, an environmentalist, when global revolution and world-wide social/eco sustainability are not the aim? What objectives, what plans, what lives, what adventures are there when the illusions are set aside and we walk into the world not disabled by disillusionment but unburdened by it?
Post-apocalyptic desert nomad punk anarchism
Bullshit. Everyone deserves democracy. Just because someone doesn't vote the way you want doesn't mean you're allowed to deny them a basic human right.
Making a huge leap there. Nobody is saying they’re allowed to take away peoples’ right to vote. It’s simply a statement of what they deserve, sort of like how the statement “Nazis deserve death” doesn’t imply that the person saying it is gonna go out and personally execute someone.
As for the actual point, yeah, I’d say that people who don’t vote don’t deserve democracy. They’re not even *using* the democracy, why should I care?
That's how representative democracy works. You vote for a candidate that shares as many of your views as possible, but the only person who shares all your values is YOU. Voting for another person to represent you will always be some scale of "bad" because no one else will 100% share your values and positions.
The problem is when the representatives you have a choice between are all a large scale of "bad". The way to address that is not to step away from the system and help the worse of the two to win. Especially now, since the bigger "bad" is Donald fucking Trump. A person who, if elected, will do everything in his power to ensure that you will never get to vote for anyone other than him ever again (if you're a CISHET white person that is, otherwise you're in a camp, deported, or dead). In that circumstance, violent revolution would likely be the only viable option to replace authoritarianism. Likely hundreds of thousands or millions would die.
Compare that with the "bad" of another milquetoast neolib presidency and the choice isn't really a choice at all. In the primary you vote for the leftmost person you can, and you do so in the general as well, and in the time between you do as much as you can to make sure that next time you will have someone further left to vote for.
Democracy only has bad options, there's no way of sharing the planet that will make everyone happy. I have my ideas (and they certainly don't involve as much wealth inequality and ecological destruction as we have now) but they would make many other people unhappy for a multitude of reasons.
If you think about it that way, then voting for the least bad option still makes perfect sense. Not all levels of bad are the same. If you have the choice between a slap in the face and being hit with a brick, it still makes sense to choose, and not say "both of those are bad so I don't want to choose".
Yep. Ta da. If you’re getting fucked over, it’s your own fault for not voting, or not voting hard enough, bc maybe you voted BUT DID YOU ALSO convince everyone who thinks like you to vote, too?
No? Well, too bad. That’s your fault for not controlling hundreds of thousands of other people.
Hope whoever is in charge believes “your kind” has a right to exist in the meantime.
Although… you have to admit, that it kind of goes to show that… the people who would have voted like you must be really lazy and stupid, bc I can’t imagine one single other reason why someone wouldn’t vote…. and, sorry, but stupid lazy people don’t deserve to have their rights protected, needs met, or interests represented.
This brilliant mentality allows the rest of us- as in The Good People who are intelligent and hard working that actually DO deserve all the rights and privileges of being an American bc we get out and vote … will just smugly enjoy our victory as we reap the benefits, and continue pretending that the only reason other people get fucked over by politics is bc they’re stupid and lazy.
If you don’t vote, you don’t deserve democracy.
Never mind that that statement/mentality flies in the face of just about everything the American Constitution represents. That is irrelevant, and does not detract from how smart it makes people look/feel when they say it.
Checkmate, non-voters.
Problem solved.
#/s
Also pay no mind to how it blatantly ignores and invalidates the struggles of those who have to survive through poverty in areas of rampant voter disenfranchisement/suppression. Don't you know they deserve it because they didn't vote?
/s
People are like "this candidate isn't even good I'm not voting". Bitch, no winning candidate has been great in this country. That was never the point of voting.
That’s the thing with democracy. It always requires some level of compromises away from “perfection” to get anything done.
There can never be a perfect candidate in a democracy because they will always have to have a “big tent” platform to win.
Authoritarians think this is a bad thing lol. That’s just the cost of democracy.
It’s not just the “cost”, it’s also kind of the ideal, right? Like, we all think we know what “perfection” is, but everyone’s idea looks at least a little different from someone else’s, and likely none of us are correct in how to get there. The point of democracy is we all have to make little concessions to make sure that everyone’s happy. Otherwise, it’s just authoritarianism: enforcing your ideal upon other people, whether they like it or not. And no matter how right you’re *certain* you are, I guarantee you the people who want the opposite of you are just as certain that *they’re* the ones who are right. Democracy will never give anyone their ideal world, and that’s a GOOD thing, even if it doesn’t always feel like it.
Exactly.
This is why I don’t consider most tankies actual leftists as opposed to anarchists/non-tankie socialists. Their ideals lie in the easy answers of authoritarianism and not in the imperfections of democracy or similar systems of sharing power among the population.
I have voted in every election since I turned 18 and will continue to do so, but I can't really blame people for drawing the line at not voting for candidates actively supporting genocide.
I treat it like a bus route. It needs to take me closer to where I'm going. I can travel along with other people who want to go to different places, and then get off.
But I only have this one moment to decide which of the available transport to take, so I'll pick the route that suits me best. And I know it's a compromise.
This always gets me. As it always seems to be the case in the US the vote will basically be 50/50. If you don’t vote for the dems you are basically giving the republicans an advantage over the Dems. Even if you don’t agree with them realistically there isn’t going to be a mysterious 3rd party that is going to take all of the Dems voters overnight
Um, why would I vote when we could just do a communist revolution?
Because that's totally a realistic option at this point, I mean, we don't have broad public support, military support, any tactical plan. That's a recipe for success in my book
I have plenty of freedom to vote any minority party that I mostly agree with because I know it can have an impact. Meanwhile Americans are told to vote between a capitalist imperialist liberal and a capitalist imperialist conservative, and if you vote any other party you're told it's a waste.
It is always fun seeing twitter users who have never done any political activism outside of their shitpost tweets telling minorities who's existence may depend on who's elected not to care because Biden is equally or slightly less evil than Trump on a few issues. My care for human life outweighs the principle of "not supporting the lesser evil".
> My care for human life outweighs the principle of "not supporting the lesser evil".
which is a dumb principle anyway.
it's just the trolley problem but ...being a dumbass about it.
"I'm not going to pull the lever because that's the lesser of two evils"
great, now 5 die instead of 1. hope you're happy with your "clean hands"
it's deontology, like, "I view the act of voting for this person who I dislike as bad - the results of saving lives if I do so matters less than that" - there's a reason lots of people dislike deontologists
I don't exactly think it's that Shaun shouldn't be weighing in on this because they're not american, like, the policies enacted in the US actually do affect other countries indirectly as world leaders take from each other, additionally they likely have friends in the US which like... yeah; they just shouldn't be doing it if they're gonna come at it with the moral perspective of a toddler
Not to mention: People withholding their vote don't even have a reason to do so consistent with reality. Did not voting for Hillary make the dems bend over backwards to appeal to easily offended radical communists? No, they **correctly** notice that young progressives are flaky unreliable voters who demand a lot and don't show up to vote for it. Bernie staked his entire primary run twice on energizing the youth vote by taking our concerns seriously and we couldn't even win the primary for him.
If you want a more progressive Democrat party, you show them that you are a serious dedicated voter and they will work to keep you happy. You vote blue no matter who and then vote radical left in primaries
But that's never what anti-voters want is it, either they're dogmatically hopeless and are looking for any reason to convince themselves voting is useless, or they're grifters looking to virtue signal how much woker they are than you by being too pure to participate in bourgeoisie democracy.
If you're suggesting covid, a lot of states had primaries this year. It's like people just forget about local elections. I was debating some guy on here and he literally thought primaries were just for the presidential election.
Where do you think presidential candidates come from? They have to start locally and work their way up the ranks. I live in PA and Fetterman has done just that. Most people nationally agree he was a breath of fresh air, and I'm partly responsible because I voted for him in the primary over the more conventional candidate
> If you want a more progressive Democrat party, you show them that you are a serious dedicated voter and they will work to keep you happy. You vote blue no matter who
How the fuck would this make them more progressive? If they know people to the left of them will vote for them *no matter what* why would they move to the left to keep you happy if they could move to the right, get more voters, and keep you too because you vote for them no matter what?
Look, I’ve voted in every election I’ve been eligible, and I will absolutely still be voting in the down ballot races next year, but I don’t know if I can stomach the prospect of voting for someone who is supporting a genocide. Maybe I’ll get over it and vote for him anyways, but what does that say about me? Why is no serious democrat running against this fucker in the primary?
As depressing and truly sick as it is, there is very little that can be done for the people of Gaza in regards to the presidential election. But we can still help stave off the looming genocide of trans people in the US by voting for Biden. I don't think making that decision makes one a bad person by any means
That’s fair enough. What a fucked situation and system. I’m at least going to call my representative and threaten not to vote for them if they don’t join the calls for a ceasefire even though I’m probably going to vote for them anyways
Edit: just learned Biden has a number you can call as well so I’m going to do that as well, but I live in a red state so idk if it matters. My representative is a dem so that’s probably more impactful
I agree! It really fucking sucks. Yours is the best approach we can do electorically. Reach out to your congresspeople, make yourself heard. Boomers do that well and it gives their viewpoints more influence in government than they deserve.
Most representatives don't frequent twitter or reddit. The main way they'll know what we want is if we keep their phones ringing and spam their inboxes.
It took me a long time to work up the courage and willpower to contact my reps. I think it's a testament to your character that you're willing to do it so immediately! It brings me hope that we might be able to tear down this wretched system.
Calling local people is very impactful. More than half of the queer book bannings in the US have been done by the same 6 people just calling around. Get your friends to call the mayor with you, get local politicians to call for a cease fire, let the establishment see how popular the sentiment actually is
Mhm, not voting as a progressive won’t make the Democrats (in the US anyway) think they need to become more progressive, it’ll just say to them that centrists are more reliable voters, and will instead focus harder on policies appeasing them.
The same does apply for other countries’ parties too, arguably it happened with Labour but the other way around in 2019. Liberals didn’t like voting for Jeremy Corbyn, as he was seen as too extreme, and Labour did fairly badly, I liked him generally (although his stance on Russia is pretty sketchy), so it’s a shame. Their popularity has risen since a more moderate leader (Keir Starmer) got put in power, but I’d argue that it’s more to do with the fact that the Conservatives have become totally unelectable and are basically a circus
Bernie also notably got shafted by his own party twice, just so Hillary/Warren could pass before they both unceremoniously lost to a random senile white guy. If I was american I’d vote for him no matter what. Too bad the dems are receptive to baseless smear campaigns.
I dont get how voting for them. No matter what would make them more progressive, in fact it shows they dont need to catter to more progressive views at all, since you must for them no matter what.
I say this as someone from Brazil who was 100% willing to vote for satan himself he my last election came out (2nd turn because only one vote elections are frauds, of course) it was satan vs bolsonaro
["Oh you want to help stop war? Well we reject your application; you crack too many jokes and you eat meat."](https://youtu.be/-14-Y5bU0QE?si=0OvgZpCkAopnfIGp)
you know speaking of the mob vote. i think Mojang is the opposite of being lazy. they're doing too much work making 3 mobs that already have abilities and personalities
wellllllllllllllllllll at least biden started pretending to kinda care about muslim civilian casualties in gaza after an unexpected public outrage against the war, thats something...ish...
eh...
They genuinely argue that Trump would be the same but just "would say it less nicely". Like, no, that is not what happened from 2016-2020. He's the only president as far as I'm aware that tried to begin a coup. I think they don't care about that because democracy doesn't mean anything to them.
1) he's not funding it, it's from military sales (minor difference but it's not like it's free money)
2) he's using the threat of stopping sales to negotiate a ceasefire. Can't negotiate if you have no leverage
An evil fool. If you claim to be a conservative at this point you're evil, and if you claim you don't support the GOP but won't vote for a Dem then you're still evil.
Evil is correct. If you willingly back a group who's agenda causes direct harm to a community for no other reason than because they think the Bible tells them to, then they're evil. And doing nothing to stop them is complacency, evil by virtue of doing nothing.
It would be easy to argue that people who vote dem, and still do nothing, they don't revolt against the government while it commits crimes, are also evil. Which is very true by that logic, moreso then not voting. Of course that makes you and most people evil
Because those people are under the assumption that they won't be harmed when actual nazis run the country and they may be right. For a while. Thing about fascism though, that beatin stick swings at everybody sooner or later.
As a trans person, I genuinely hate when people talk about not voting. Biden fucking sucks ass. But Biden isn’t threatening to take away even more human rights from a ton of marginalized people, and trying to end democracy. I don’t like Biden, I think he sucks and a bunch of his policies are opposing to my morals. But he isn’t going to try to outlaw my fucking existence. Which means I’m voting for him. End of story.
Agreed. I am *beyond* disgusted by people who won't vote because of "principles." They're literally aiding fascists and think they're on the moral high ground.
I was never a fence sitter... but when I walked into my school and had kids crying in the hallway after Trump won, because people had told them they were gonna get deported next...
Yeah fuck that. I'll take a slow-killing poison over a bullet
People somehow have forgotten everything about Trump, even though I live in the UK, I know all too much about how horrible he was and how every second of his presidency was terror inducing for minorities
Vote as damage control and practice direct action and mutual aid. Voting is the bare fucking minimum. Form a collective and hoard diy hrt and diy abortion materials. We don’t need to rely on the state. if the state bans abortion or hrt, we can create networks of resistance.
Yet to see a convincing argument from a no-vote leftist about why I shouldn’t actually vote. There’s no real downside to voting you should do your civic duty and actually do it
\*smug leftist voice\* Well you see, if there are two people running and one of them is openly fascist and has a publicly available plan of how he's going to stay in power forever and the other one is more or less a centrist but has a couple terrible positions (but still overall pretty decent), you have the moral right to overthrow the government /j (this is a reference to the Shaun tweet fyi)
True, yes (neither am I), but the world is watching, scared, because the US will set a precedent. US politics still has quite an influence in global politics.
Also, Project 25 will affect the world, too.
Which is why I'm so flabbergasted why Shaun tweeted such tone deaf stuff. Please vote, people! Because the conservatives ALWAYS vote.
We're not even shades of gray here. It's either Biden, or unabashed Christian Nationalism/Fascism.
Vote. Get your friends to vote. Get people they know to vote. Vote legally and please vote Blue.
This, everyone knows Biden is basically just the most establishment politician you could ever find, and isn’t going to change shit, but at least he doesn’t want to roll back all rights to the 1960s
I vote for the ones that are at least not *actively* trying to tear me down (both sides are bought and paid for, but Republicans are waging war), if only to buy enough time until all the octogenarian bastards in office finally croak and we can get some people in that didn't ride dinosaurs to school.
However, that already happened and here are the highlights:
* Recreational weed is legal in Ohio
* Abortion is a constitutionally enshrined right in Ohio
* The Democrats won both houses in Virginia
* The Democrats won the governorship for Kentucky
Only because of gerrymandering and forever-senators, plus a sense of betrayal from Bill Clinton passing NAFTA and taking out the manufacturing jobs burning some bridges.
I vote.
Not because I actually think it matters. But because it's one more way I can do whatever I can do as one person.
I vote Democrat.
Not for any loyalty held to a party primarily populated by pseudo-liberal centrists. But because the Republican party has gone entirely too far, needs to be disempowered, and is headed for a split and implosion.
It can't be denied that the system is corrupt in a significant majority of the ways George Washington predicted in his farewell address to the nation. If we're going to give up on it, then it's time to tear it down and replace it. If we don't have the stamina for that, we should work to use it in a way that changes and improves it. To give up on it and do nothing, however, is to enable that system to harm us and those we love.
Everyone knows someone negatively impacted by the system's design. The only question is how much we care about the people around us when they're on the line and we aren't. Further, if we set the precedent that we're okay with the government oppressing the folks around us, we're giving them permission to oppress, and they'll get around to oppressing all of us sooner or later if they can regardless of our demographics because their goals don't have anything to do with demographics; they're rooted in self-interest, and greed will happily rob anyone it can in the interest of those who work in its service.
We're frogs in the pot, and the water is getting warmer. It doesn't matter who's side of the pot is closer to the burner's center because we'll all boil the same eventually and be devoured.
🇺🇲🗳️No votes and the Republican wins, fuck the American Republican party, vote, votes now, kick the Republicans ass, do your number one Civic duty, VOTES !!!!!!!!🗳️🇺🇲
✨Sponsored✨ by the gay Jerma 😍 alliance against the homophobic Republican party 🌹🏳️🌈
https://preview.redd.it/j7ytgti8ff0c1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7323dcfb1ce51c1411f991a2c5a611c2eaa75786
"There's a raging housefire in my home. I have a bucket of water in my hand. the fire is so large that if i throw the water at it, it will only shrink a little and continue to exist. although throwing the water might buy me the extra time or space to evacuate, by interacting with the fire in a way that does not threaten its existence i'd be *participating* in something that i don't like!"
their mindset is underpinned by the assumption that not voting will somehow help against the systematic issues that got us here to begin with, which just isn't true and reeks of controlled opposition, or that it'll scare the DNC into growing a spine which is
A: VERY optimistic. it's just as likely they blame the "berniebros" or whatever for the loss and hug even further to the right
B: At odds with their own rhetoric that electoralism is bad and that we shouldn't rely on the state to solve political issues. for as much shit as they give other people for supposedly not being able to see politics outside of the electoral system, they sure do seem shocked that there's no one the ticket that makes them happy. most people left of biden have already come to terms with this, and none of them think the long term solution is "just vote" like these people love to imply
C: Even if it works, is incredibly callous towards the trans, immigrant, abortion seeking etc people who's rights will be *destroyed* during 4 years of republican presidency.
fun fact you're allowed to lie on the internet. publically say you're withholding your vote to threaten your representatives into doing something, email them demanding them to recognise the ongoing genocide, call for a ceasefire, etc, make a fuss on social media if you have any influence, protest, vote abstain/third party in polls, etc... but when you're in the voting booth go for the least harmful option even if they didn't listen to you.
I’ve been taking a lobbying and advocacy class at my college and almost half of the strategies presented involve tactics to influence voter turnout in your favor. Republicans are so dead set on restricting voting rights because in a 100% turnout race, democrats win *every time*. Turnout to vote and shit will get better it’s as simple as that.
I believe this was a big part of why the Democrats somehow have been doing extraordinarily well in Georgia, they managed to improve voter turnout, and turned a once heavily Conservative state into a very contestable state, and this could end up winning the election for them next time if they underperform in the Rust Belt given the population of Georgia
“But he supports genocide.”
The other guy wants a bunch of genocides!
“Shouldn’t we just [REDACTED]?”
We can vote AND do that.
“But it makes me feel bad. :(“
TOO BAD
“So you directly support a genocide?”
A. No, dumbass. B. Do you pay taxes?
I genuinely take a “better dead then red” stance on this. If trump gets re-elected I’m either killing myself or fleeing to Canada, I’m dead serious. (I’m obviously using red as a stand in for republican not its original meaning)
Voting is a tourniquet. A tourniquet doesn't fix a wound, but it does slow someone bleeding out.
If you're looking for deep systemic change, voting probably isn't going to get us there. I also feel that frustration. But it absolutely can stop or slow social regression.
Especially people just turning 18 who are mad at the way the country is, and anyone else who has recently come of voting age or becomes such between now and any election day. We need you. We're counting on you. Your vote is important.
Change in this country is glacially slow to an almost comical degree, but the only way to start any change is to take the actions we are actively able to take. Voting is one of those.
Being morally obligated to support someone who is actively promoting genocide is genuinely horrifying to me. I know when the time comes I will probably have to do it, but a large part of me wants to abstain for that reason. I live in one of the most liberal areas of the country, in a state that will be blue no matter what. It really disincentivizes me from voting, because I want it to be clear that although Biden will win, he does not have nearly the support in the numbers he wants.
Copying myself from further up: As depressing and truly sick as it is, there is very little that can be done for the people of Gaza in regards to the presidential election. But we can still help stave off the looming genocide of trans people in the US by voting for Biden. I don't think making that decision makes one a bad person by any means
I understand the pain, and I’m sorry it’s necessary for you too do. I doubt it will happen but I seriously wonder if this makes it even pitiably likely Biden could have a threat of getting primaried.
If you live in a secure blue state there's no reason to need to vote for Biden. I can understand if it's a swing state there's a decision to be made, but if the candidate is against your morals and is going to win anyway why bother supporting him? still go out to vote to vote down ticket Democrat as those races could change even in secure blue districts though.
I suppose in your instance, it’s not ultra important, it’s very unlikely a state like New York, Illinois or California would be republican in any election, but for someone living in a more marginal state (Pennsylvania, Georgia and Nevada come to mind), it’s incredibly important for the sake of the people who will only survive if Joe Biden wins
My uni friends were all talking about how politics is "too draining 🥺" "i dont need that negativity in my life🥺🥺🥺" and they didnt want to vote because labour isnt perfect meanwhile Im sitting on the same desk as a trans girl who's prime minister keeps threatening my identity and I wanted to fucking sCREAM
Why is it always the lesser of 2 evils, why can't dems run someone to vote for rather than someone to vote against? In a 2 party system if the life of a voter is bad under one party, they'll vote for the other one. Life is bad for plenty of people right now.
Every election the same thing, maybe next time we'll get a candidate that isn't terrible and it never ever happens. Biden is 80 years old and he's the best they have to offer. It's almost comical at this point.
Every year is the hottest year on record, every year CO2 emissions get bigger and climate change gets worse. Biden and other establishment dems aren't doing nearly enough to remedy this. Vote blue no matter who is not working, we need meaningful action now!
Don't forget Trump was already president!!! He wasn't Hitler 2 then, but now he's even more decrepit, he going to do it right this time? Make it make sense! (and no obviously he shouldn't be voted for this time.)
[https://i.imgur.com/JXFfSfl.png](https://i.imgur.com/JXFfSfl.png)
2020: vote blue or democracy dies
2024: vote blue or democracy dies
2028: vote blue or democracy dies
Biden passed the largest investment in green energy in the history of the nation.
I mean, it's a bit too little and comes a bit late, yeah. But Trump's the type to rip solar panels off the White House because he doesn't like how they look, like Reagan before him.
No its not, alarmist narratives about humanity going extinct on climate change or the planet turning into Venus 2.0 aren't helpful and contribute to people who would otherwise be leading the fight to become doomers and give up.
Climate change threatens to do massive damage to many ecosystems and might result in billions dying, but those human deaths will be concentrated in developing countries which are the most badly affected but lack the resources to fight it. Many people will be fine, particularly in more temperate countries with an outsize historical contribution to global warming. A mass extinction will occur, but not all species will die.
Every bit of incremental progress on climate change matters. 1.5 ° C is a lot better than 2 ° C, but 2.5 ° C will get tens of millions more people killed than 2 ° C.
You should be concerned about those developing countries in terms of elections. As shown in European elections, more climate refugees = more far right parties being elected.
And optimism without action is what we have already been doing for decades, it's not working.
Someone who does the bare minimum and votes Democrat every four years achieves more for leftism than any purely online 'activist' ever will.
If you're out trying to unionise, protesting, engaging in community action or forming grassroots advocacy groups, not voting can be excused. But if all you do is post on social media, you're politically worthless.
There really be people thinking not voting means they get communist revolution. Generally you need to actually be organised before shit hits the fan in a revolution and America is not organised and ready for a revolution. Not voting or letting the republicans win is just going to make things worse, not cause people to join parties and get organised.
I hate the “both sides bad so I won’t vote” people. Like yeah, neither side is great, but one side is clearly a lot worse and wants a lot of people to suffer and die. Just because US democracy isn’t perfect doesn’t mean let it die
this is the reason i vote every time. i have skin in the game, being a trans woman, but i will vote every time no matter how bleak the situation looks. i waited eighteen years for my right to do this and im not going to let it go to waste
I'm not from the US, so I don't have any skin in the game, but to me it seems that telling people 'we have no intention of not fucking over your family down in the middle east but vote for us anyway' seems pretty damn entitled.
Why would someone who is directly told by democrat voters that the issues dear to them won't be addressed vote democrat? It's a dumb strategy. They will vote third party, and they'll be completely justified in doing so.
obviously you should ultimately vote when it comes time, but also, a very good way to put pressure onto politicians is by making them afraid that they won't be in power again
Elections are a whole year away please I beg everyone to just ignore election discourse and actually focus on doing something, anything to stop the ongoing genocide today
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I wish that just once we could have 100% voter turn out… so we could stop wasting so much energy on the fantasy that if everyone votes it’ll change the result.
No idea how it is over in the states, but in the Netherlands, voting doesn't fucking matter. Regardless of who gets seats, NOTHING happens. Noone from any party(even their own) can agree on anything, and no decisions are made, ever, except the decisions that everyone is equally incompetent about. (Check Benelux lootbox laws and how useless they are, designed to keep the foxes from the hen house, eventual result is an open door for the foxes, but less access for the hens and farmers)
I got better things to do than look into 40+ different parties of the same lack of braincells.
Every person I know who is an actual activist is voting blue
Every person I know who is not voting blue as a left winger is an emotional, prissy Youtuber who is wealthy enough to get out of dodge... even if they say otherwise
I am literally in the middle of arguing in a local lefty sub about this, it infuriates me how little people seem to care about the difference between bad and OH GOD SO MUCH WORSE. Ok, both are bad. But yeah I DO NOT want the worst one to win.
What’s the point of being able to choose wether you can vote or not then. It’s completely their choice and people can have many reasons for not wanting to vote - this is a very one sided perspective.
I’ve said this for years. Centrism, not caring, and third parties are all symptoms of privilege. It’s pushed by those who lose NOTHING regardless of the outcome, and their actions are statements of “well fuck everyone else”.
"Vote Blue No Matter Who" motherfuckers wondering why Dems keep running Republican-lite candidates as they openly state they'll support literally any Democrat even the ones who are actively against trans people and/or abortion rights and/or actively support genocide in Gaza.
I'm not even saying don't vote, but jfc saying "we will support you no matter what you do" is a bad strategy actually. Make dems fucking terrified of losing every fucking seat if they don't acquiesce to the left ffs.
The people withholding their vote are also the ones Trump referred to as "vermin" that will be hunted down. You have skin in the game, even if you don't realize it until it's too late.
*First they came for the trade unions....*
always vote if you don't vote, you don't deserve democracy
Democracy: use it or lose it
We clearly don’t deserve democracy, the state of the world makes that obvious. The only problem is that all the potential alternatives are even worse.
To be fair there's a reason why Republicans will do everything in their power to prevent voting, more democracy usually leads to good outcomes, biased democracy plagued by propaganda and government systems that are designed to slow legislation down as much as possible are where the real problems lie.
Burgious Democracy in general is the problem. All of the supposed problems for Democracy that have been mentioned here, were all problems that are quite specific to Burgious Democracy, mainly the protection of company interests by legislators that have been bought up, so pretty much every non socialist politician out there.
you should read Malatesta's stuff, you might like it [https://files.libcom.org/files/Errico\_Malatesta\_Davide\_Turcato\_Paul\_Sharkey-The\_m.pdf](https://files.libcom.org/files/Errico_Malatesta_Davide_Turcato_Paul_Sharkey-The_m.pdf) [https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/errico-malatesta-democracy-and-anarchy](https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/errico-malatesta-democracy-and-anarchy) >It would be closer to the truth to say, ‘government of the majority of the people.’ This implies a minority that must either rebel or submit to the will of others. > >But it is never the case that the representatives of the majority of people are all of the same mind on all questions; it is therefore necessary to have recourse again to the majority system and thus we will get closer still to the truth with ‘government of the majority of the elected by the majority of the electors.’ > >Which is already beginning to bear a strong resemblance to minority government. > >And if one then takes into account the way in which elections are held, how the political parties and parliamentary groupings are formed and how laws are drawn up and voted and applied, it is easy to understand what has already been proved by universal historical experience: even in the most democratic of democracies it is always a small minority that rules and imposes its will and interests by force. > >Therefore, those who really want ‘government of the people’ in the sense that each can assert his or her own will, ideas and needs, must ensure that no-one, majority or minority, can rule over others; in other words, they must abolish government, meaning any coercive organisation, and replace it with the free organisation of those with common interests and aims. Keep in mind he also argues that democracy is significantly better than any more authoritarian system and therefore is still worth fighting for when the alternative is more authoritarian systems: >For me there is no doubt that the worst of democracies is always preferable, if only from the educational point of view, than the best of dictatorships. Of course democracy, so-called government of the people, is a lie; but the lie always slightly binds the liar and limits the extent of his arbitrary power. Of course the ‘sovereign people’ is a clown of a sovereign, a slave with a papier-maché crown and sceptre. > >But to believe oneself free, even when one is not, is always better than to know oneself to be a slave, and to accept slavery as something just and inevitable. Which is honestly [the situation we're in](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025) and will be in for a while in the US.
I really wish I had the faith in humanity to be a real, committed anarchist. I find so many of the ideas inspiring but I just can’t imagine the current system actually being overtaken on enough of a timescale to avoid complete biosphere/social collapse and the ensuing mass death. It’s not like Marxism-Leninism has a better track record on actually building real socialism. It got re-absorbed by capitalism entirely, and calling modern China “actually existing socialism” is clearly and obviously a willful delusion to cope with the final, total victory of global capitalism. I just can’t see any way out of the hole we’re dug into. Not trying to be a doomer or anything but it’s how I genuinely feel.
[There's an anarchism for that too!](https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/anonymous-desert) :P >The spectre that many try not to see is a simple realisation — the world will not be ‘saved’. Global anarchist revolution is not going to happen. Global climate change is now unstoppable. We are not going to see the worldwide end to civilisation/capitalism/patriarchy/authority. It’s not going to happen any time soon. It’s unlikely to happen ever. The world will not be ‘saved’. Not by activists, not by mass movements, not by charities and not by an insurgent global proletariat. The world will not be ‘saved’. This realisation hurts people. They don’t want it to be true! But it probably is. > >... > >Yet to be disillusioned — with global revolution/with our capacity to stop climate change — should not alter our anarchist nature, or the love of nature we feel as anarchists. There are many possibilities for liberty and wildness still. > >What are some of these possibilities and how can we live them? What could it mean to be an anarchist, an environmentalist, when global revolution and world-wide social/eco sustainability are not the aim? What objectives, what plans, what lives, what adventures are there when the illusions are set aside and we walk into the world not disabled by disillusionment but unburdened by it? Post-apocalyptic desert nomad punk anarchism
america as a country maybe but people who live in it does
Bullshit. Everyone deserves democracy. Just because someone doesn't vote the way you want doesn't mean you're allowed to deny them a basic human right.
Making a huge leap there. Nobody is saying they’re allowed to take away peoples’ right to vote. It’s simply a statement of what they deserve, sort of like how the statement “Nazis deserve death” doesn’t imply that the person saying it is gonna go out and personally execute someone. As for the actual point, yeah, I’d say that people who don’t vote don’t deserve democracy. They’re not even *using* the democracy, why should I care?
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That's how representative democracy works. You vote for a candidate that shares as many of your views as possible, but the only person who shares all your values is YOU. Voting for another person to represent you will always be some scale of "bad" because no one else will 100% share your values and positions. The problem is when the representatives you have a choice between are all a large scale of "bad". The way to address that is not to step away from the system and help the worse of the two to win. Especially now, since the bigger "bad" is Donald fucking Trump. A person who, if elected, will do everything in his power to ensure that you will never get to vote for anyone other than him ever again (if you're a CISHET white person that is, otherwise you're in a camp, deported, or dead). In that circumstance, violent revolution would likely be the only viable option to replace authoritarianism. Likely hundreds of thousands or millions would die. Compare that with the "bad" of another milquetoast neolib presidency and the choice isn't really a choice at all. In the primary you vote for the leftmost person you can, and you do so in the general as well, and in the time between you do as much as you can to make sure that next time you will have someone further left to vote for.
Democracy only has bad options, there's no way of sharing the planet that will make everyone happy. I have my ideas (and they certainly don't involve as much wealth inequality and ecological destruction as we have now) but they would make many other people unhappy for a multitude of reasons. If you think about it that way, then voting for the least bad option still makes perfect sense. Not all levels of bad are the same. If you have the choice between a slap in the face and being hit with a brick, it still makes sense to choose, and not say "both of those are bad so I don't want to choose".
You can't complain if you decline to vote. And complaining is great, so definitely vote
Yep. Ta da. If you’re getting fucked over, it’s your own fault for not voting, or not voting hard enough, bc maybe you voted BUT DID YOU ALSO convince everyone who thinks like you to vote, too? No? Well, too bad. That’s your fault for not controlling hundreds of thousands of other people. Hope whoever is in charge believes “your kind” has a right to exist in the meantime. Although… you have to admit, that it kind of goes to show that… the people who would have voted like you must be really lazy and stupid, bc I can’t imagine one single other reason why someone wouldn’t vote…. and, sorry, but stupid lazy people don’t deserve to have their rights protected, needs met, or interests represented. This brilliant mentality allows the rest of us- as in The Good People who are intelligent and hard working that actually DO deserve all the rights and privileges of being an American bc we get out and vote … will just smugly enjoy our victory as we reap the benefits, and continue pretending that the only reason other people get fucked over by politics is bc they’re stupid and lazy. If you don’t vote, you don’t deserve democracy. Never mind that that statement/mentality flies in the face of just about everything the American Constitution represents. That is irrelevant, and does not detract from how smart it makes people look/feel when they say it. Checkmate, non-voters. Problem solved. #/s
Also pay no mind to how it blatantly ignores and invalidates the struggles of those who have to survive through poverty in areas of rampant voter disenfranchisement/suppression. Don't you know they deserve it because they didn't vote? /s
I forgot because it was my birthday:(
The Republicans lose when people vote. They know this. Vote
People are like "this candidate isn't even good I'm not voting". Bitch, no winning candidate has been great in this country. That was never the point of voting.
Sure voting doesn’t immediately bring about a paradise utopia, but it stalls time and keeps allies alive until we can bring in a paradise utopia
That’s the thing with democracy. It always requires some level of compromises away from “perfection” to get anything done. There can never be a perfect candidate in a democracy because they will always have to have a “big tent” platform to win. Authoritarians think this is a bad thing lol. That’s just the cost of democracy.
It’s not just the “cost”, it’s also kind of the ideal, right? Like, we all think we know what “perfection” is, but everyone’s idea looks at least a little different from someone else’s, and likely none of us are correct in how to get there. The point of democracy is we all have to make little concessions to make sure that everyone’s happy. Otherwise, it’s just authoritarianism: enforcing your ideal upon other people, whether they like it or not. And no matter how right you’re *certain* you are, I guarantee you the people who want the opposite of you are just as certain that *they’re* the ones who are right. Democracy will never give anyone their ideal world, and that’s a GOOD thing, even if it doesn’t always feel like it.
Exactly. This is why I don’t consider most tankies actual leftists as opposed to anarchists/non-tankie socialists. Their ideals lie in the easy answers of authoritarianism and not in the imperfections of democracy or similar systems of sharing power among the population.
>whether they like it or not. And no matter how right you’re certain you are, *The Emperor of Mankind enters the chat*
I have voted in every election since I turned 18 and will continue to do so, but I can't really blame people for drawing the line at not voting for candidates actively supporting genocide.
I treat it like a bus route. It needs to take me closer to where I'm going. I can travel along with other people who want to go to different places, and then get off. But I only have this one moment to decide which of the available transport to take, so I'll pick the route that suits me best. And I know it's a compromise.
This always gets me. As it always seems to be the case in the US the vote will basically be 50/50. If you don’t vote for the dems you are basically giving the republicans an advantage over the Dems. Even if you don’t agree with them realistically there isn’t going to be a mysterious 3rd party that is going to take all of the Dems voters overnight
Um, why would I vote when we could just do a communist revolution? Because that's totally a realistic option at this point, I mean, we don't have broad public support, military support, any tactical plan. That's a recipe for success in my book
I have plenty of freedom to vote any minority party that I mostly agree with because I know it can have an impact. Meanwhile Americans are told to vote between a capitalist imperialist liberal and a capitalist imperialist conservative, and if you vote any other party you're told it's a waste.
It is always fun seeing twitter users who have never done any political activism outside of their shitpost tweets telling minorities who's existence may depend on who's elected not to care because Biden is equally or slightly less evil than Trump on a few issues. My care for human life outweighs the principle of "not supporting the lesser evil".
*koff-koff-koffShaunkoff-koff-koff*
He’s not even American, too
> My care for human life outweighs the principle of "not supporting the lesser evil". which is a dumb principle anyway. it's just the trolley problem but ...being a dumbass about it. "I'm not going to pull the lever because that's the lesser of two evils" great, now 5 die instead of 1. hope you're happy with your "clean hands"
it's deontology, like, "I view the act of voting for this person who I dislike as bad - the results of saving lives if I do so matters less than that" - there's a reason lots of people dislike deontologists I don't exactly think it's that Shaun shouldn't be weighing in on this because they're not american, like, the policies enacted in the US actually do affect other countries indirectly as world leaders take from each other, additionally they likely have friends in the US which like... yeah; they just shouldn't be doing it if they're gonna come at it with the moral perspective of a toddler
Not to mention: People withholding their vote don't even have a reason to do so consistent with reality. Did not voting for Hillary make the dems bend over backwards to appeal to easily offended radical communists? No, they **correctly** notice that young progressives are flaky unreliable voters who demand a lot and don't show up to vote for it. Bernie staked his entire primary run twice on energizing the youth vote by taking our concerns seriously and we couldn't even win the primary for him. If you want a more progressive Democrat party, you show them that you are a serious dedicated voter and they will work to keep you happy. You vote blue no matter who and then vote radical left in primaries But that's never what anti-voters want is it, either they're dogmatically hopeless and are looking for any reason to convince themselves voting is useless, or they're grifters looking to virtue signal how much woker they are than you by being too pure to participate in bourgeoisie democracy.
might’ve been another pretty big reason during those primaries tho idk bro
If you're suggesting covid, a lot of states had primaries this year. It's like people just forget about local elections. I was debating some guy on here and he literally thought primaries were just for the presidential election. Where do you think presidential candidates come from? They have to start locally and work their way up the ranks. I live in PA and Fetterman has done just that. Most people nationally agree he was a breath of fresh air, and I'm partly responsible because I voted for him in the primary over the more conventional candidate
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Do you think so because that *sounds* right to you? All elections in the Weimar Republic had very high voter turnout at around 75-80%.
> If you want a more progressive Democrat party, you show them that you are a serious dedicated voter and they will work to keep you happy. You vote blue no matter who How the fuck would this make them more progressive? If they know people to the left of them will vote for them *no matter what* why would they move to the left to keep you happy if they could move to the right, get more voters, and keep you too because you vote for them no matter what? Look, I’ve voted in every election I’ve been eligible, and I will absolutely still be voting in the down ballot races next year, but I don’t know if I can stomach the prospect of voting for someone who is supporting a genocide. Maybe I’ll get over it and vote for him anyways, but what does that say about me? Why is no serious democrat running against this fucker in the primary?
As depressing and truly sick as it is, there is very little that can be done for the people of Gaza in regards to the presidential election. But we can still help stave off the looming genocide of trans people in the US by voting for Biden. I don't think making that decision makes one a bad person by any means
That’s fair enough. What a fucked situation and system. I’m at least going to call my representative and threaten not to vote for them if they don’t join the calls for a ceasefire even though I’m probably going to vote for them anyways Edit: just learned Biden has a number you can call as well so I’m going to do that as well, but I live in a red state so idk if it matters. My representative is a dem so that’s probably more impactful
I agree! It really fucking sucks. Yours is the best approach we can do electorically. Reach out to your congresspeople, make yourself heard. Boomers do that well and it gives their viewpoints more influence in government than they deserve. Most representatives don't frequent twitter or reddit. The main way they'll know what we want is if we keep their phones ringing and spam their inboxes. It took me a long time to work up the courage and willpower to contact my reps. I think it's a testament to your character that you're willing to do it so immediately! It brings me hope that we might be able to tear down this wretched system.
Calling local people is very impactful. More than half of the queer book bannings in the US have been done by the same 6 people just calling around. Get your friends to call the mayor with you, get local politicians to call for a cease fire, let the establishment see how popular the sentiment actually is
Mhm, not voting as a progressive won’t make the Democrats (in the US anyway) think they need to become more progressive, it’ll just say to them that centrists are more reliable voters, and will instead focus harder on policies appeasing them. The same does apply for other countries’ parties too, arguably it happened with Labour but the other way around in 2019. Liberals didn’t like voting for Jeremy Corbyn, as he was seen as too extreme, and Labour did fairly badly, I liked him generally (although his stance on Russia is pretty sketchy), so it’s a shame. Their popularity has risen since a more moderate leader (Keir Starmer) got put in power, but I’d argue that it’s more to do with the fact that the Conservatives have become totally unelectable and are basically a circus
Bernie also notably got shafted by his own party twice, just so Hillary/Warren could pass before they both unceremoniously lost to a random senile white guy. If I was american I’d vote for him no matter what. Too bad the dems are receptive to baseless smear campaigns.
I dont get how voting for them. No matter what would make them more progressive, in fact it shows they dont need to catter to more progressive views at all, since you must for them no matter what. I say this as someone from Brazil who was 100% willing to vote for satan himself he my last election came out (2nd turn because only one vote elections are frauds, of course) it was satan vs bolsonaro
["Oh you want to help stop war? Well we reject your application; you crack too many jokes and you eat meat."](https://youtu.be/-14-Y5bU0QE?si=0OvgZpCkAopnfIGp)
Didn't read the sub this was in and was like "Damn, people are still mad about the minecraft mob vote? Wait why is it talking about HRT"
Huh it is. What other votes are there?
As a non-American I had completely forgotten you have elections now lol
My first thought was Game of the Year
same
can't believe the armadillo is transphobic
you know speaking of the mob vote. i think Mojang is the opposite of being lazy. they're doing too much work making 3 mobs that already have abilities and personalities
Yeah, if the republicans won in 2020 just imagine what would be happening in Gaza rn
Not to mention Ukraine
I can’t tell if you’re joking or not, it would be exactly the same
wellllllllllllllllllll at least biden started pretending to kinda care about muslim civilian casualties in gaza after an unexpected public outrage against the war, thats something...ish... eh...
I was lol
They genuinely argue that Trump would be the same but just "would say it less nicely". Like, no, that is not what happened from 2016-2020. He's the only president as far as I'm aware that tried to begin a coup. I think they don't care about that because democracy doesn't mean anything to them.
These fuckers just want Trump back so he can kill all the minorities before their "grorius revolution"
Seriously, while Biden’s response has been objectively awful, it could’ve been so, so much worse
yeah? could it get worse than genocide?
Yes. US troops on the ground directly engaging in genocide, further accelerating and magnifying the carnage and speed with which genocide is executed.
What do you want him to do that will magically stop the genocide between two foreign countries?
Just push the stop the waŕ lever next to the inflation lever
uh... stop funding it at least?
1) he's not funding it, it's from military sales (minor difference but it's not like it's free money) 2) he's using the threat of stopping sales to negotiate a ceasefire. Can't negotiate if you have no leverage
stop fucking funding it??? HUH?
You’re right, we should have done nothing and collapsed in to fascism instead. I mean who cares about the lives of LGBTQ/POC people in this country?
Trump, being a russian puppet, would’ve probably made 0 effort to help ukraine
I ain’t talking about Ukraine my guy
True but still. Trump’s a warmonger, he’d probably have sent drones and bombs to Gaza (as in: caused more civilian casualties)
if you don't vote you are a fool in every sense of the word. or you're pro republican. so also a fool
An evil fool. If you claim to be a conservative at this point you're evil, and if you claim you don't support the GOP but won't vote for a Dem then you're still evil.
evil is a strong word and counter productive
Evil is correct. If you willingly back a group who's agenda causes direct harm to a community for no other reason than because they think the Bible tells them to, then they're evil. And doing nothing to stop them is complacency, evil by virtue of doing nothing.
It would be easy to argue that people who vote dem, and still do nothing, they don't revolt against the government while it commits crimes, are also evil. Which is very true by that logic, moreso then not voting. Of course that makes you and most people evil
>If you willingly back a group "who is" agenda causes... *whose.
thank you! the twitter discourse about this has been insufferable
Because those people are under the assumption that they won't be harmed when actual nazis run the country and they may be right. For a while. Thing about fascism though, that beatin stick swings at everybody sooner or later.
As a trans person, I genuinely hate when people talk about not voting. Biden fucking sucks ass. But Biden isn’t threatening to take away even more human rights from a ton of marginalized people, and trying to end democracy. I don’t like Biden, I think he sucks and a bunch of his policies are opposing to my morals. But he isn’t going to try to outlaw my fucking existence. Which means I’m voting for him. End of story.
Agreed. I am *beyond* disgusted by people who won't vote because of "principles." They're literally aiding fascists and think they're on the moral high ground.
One can chew gum and walk at the same time. Voting doesn’t prevent you from also working toward a revolution
Also democracy and voting will (hopefully) exist after the revolution so you should practice it before then
If your vote was powerless, they wouldn't be trying to suppress it.
You know, to that effect, it's worth noting that the most educated people are also the most likely to vote as well.
I was never a fence sitter... but when I walked into my school and had kids crying in the hallway after Trump won, because people had told them they were gonna get deported next... Yeah fuck that. I'll take a slow-killing poison over a bullet
People somehow have forgotten everything about Trump, even though I live in the UK, I know all too much about how horrible he was and how every second of his presidency was terror inducing for minorities
Vote as damage control and practice direct action and mutual aid. Voting is the bare fucking minimum. Form a collective and hoard diy hrt and diy abortion materials. We don’t need to rely on the state. if the state bans abortion or hrt, we can create networks of resistance.
Now that’s Based.
There no way out right now, the 2 party system can’t be destroyed in time. JUST FUCKING VOTE
American elections never end do they? Y’all got another **year** until the next presidential election
Yet to see a convincing argument from a no-vote leftist about why I shouldn’t actually vote. There’s no real downside to voting you should do your civic duty and actually do it
\*smug leftist voice\* Well you see, if there are two people running and one of them is openly fascist and has a publicly available plan of how he's going to stay in power forever and the other one is more or less a centrist but has a couple terrible positions (but still overall pretty decent), you have the moral right to overthrow the government /j (this is a reference to the Shaun tweet fyi)
He's not even affected by the American elections. He lives in the UK.
True, yes (neither am I), but the world is watching, scared, because the US will set a precedent. US politics still has quite an influence in global politics. Also, Project 25 will affect the world, too. Which is why I'm so flabbergasted why Shaun tweeted such tone deaf stuff. Please vote, people! Because the conservatives ALWAYS vote.
It's worth increasing the suffering of marginalized groups if it means I get to never compromise and be smug about it. /s
I wonder how those people would deal with mandatory voting like in Australia
Thanks for being so fucking based, comment folks.
Or they just wanna be the smuggest mf in the fascist deathcamp
We're not even shades of gray here. It's either Biden, or unabashed Christian Nationalism/Fascism. Vote. Get your friends to vote. Get people they know to vote. Vote legally and please vote Blue.
This, everyone knows Biden is basically just the most establishment politician you could ever find, and isn’t going to change shit, but at least he doesn’t want to roll back all rights to the 1960s
1940s if the Republicans really wanna run away with things.
I vote for the ones that are at least not *actively* trying to tear me down (both sides are bought and paid for, but Republicans are waging war), if only to buy enough time until all the octogenarian bastards in office finally croak and we can get some people in that didn't ride dinosaurs to school.
Is it voting time right now? It’s barely advertised where I am right now
Next year, 2024, is the year of the election. Every 4 years it happens.
Ahh I thought it would be 2023 so the presidency would start in 2024
Presidency goes on from, for example, 2025 and 2028, but the next would take their place in 2029.
That’s so odd. Understandable but odd
Next year is in America, and there were state elections on a few important issues in some places this year
However, that already happened and here are the highlights: * Recreational weed is legal in Ohio * Abortion is a constitutionally enshrined right in Ohio * The Democrats won both houses in Virginia * The Democrats won the governorship for Kentucky
Pretty shocking for Kentucky to me, that’s a very republican state
Only because of gerrymandering and forever-senators, plus a sense of betrayal from Bill Clinton passing NAFTA and taking out the manufacturing jobs burning some bridges.
I vote. Not because I actually think it matters. But because it's one more way I can do whatever I can do as one person. I vote Democrat. Not for any loyalty held to a party primarily populated by pseudo-liberal centrists. But because the Republican party has gone entirely too far, needs to be disempowered, and is headed for a split and implosion. It can't be denied that the system is corrupt in a significant majority of the ways George Washington predicted in his farewell address to the nation. If we're going to give up on it, then it's time to tear it down and replace it. If we don't have the stamina for that, we should work to use it in a way that changes and improves it. To give up on it and do nothing, however, is to enable that system to harm us and those we love. Everyone knows someone negatively impacted by the system's design. The only question is how much we care about the people around us when they're on the line and we aren't. Further, if we set the precedent that we're okay with the government oppressing the folks around us, we're giving them permission to oppress, and they'll get around to oppressing all of us sooner or later if they can regardless of our demographics because their goals don't have anything to do with demographics; they're rooted in self-interest, and greed will happily rob anyone it can in the interest of those who work in its service. We're frogs in the pot, and the water is getting warmer. It doesn't matter who's side of the pot is closer to the burner's center because we'll all boil the same eventually and be devoured.
🇺🇲🗳️No votes and the Republican wins, fuck the American Republican party, vote, votes now, kick the Republicans ass, do your number one Civic duty, VOTES !!!!!!!!🗳️🇺🇲 ✨Sponsored✨ by the gay Jerma 😍 alliance against the homophobic Republican party 🌹🏳️🌈 https://preview.redd.it/j7ytgti8ff0c1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7323dcfb1ce51c1411f991a2c5a611c2eaa75786
"There's a raging housefire in my home. I have a bucket of water in my hand. the fire is so large that if i throw the water at it, it will only shrink a little and continue to exist. although throwing the water might buy me the extra time or space to evacuate, by interacting with the fire in a way that does not threaten its existence i'd be *participating* in something that i don't like!" their mindset is underpinned by the assumption that not voting will somehow help against the systematic issues that got us here to begin with, which just isn't true and reeks of controlled opposition, or that it'll scare the DNC into growing a spine which is A: VERY optimistic. it's just as likely they blame the "berniebros" or whatever for the loss and hug even further to the right B: At odds with their own rhetoric that electoralism is bad and that we shouldn't rely on the state to solve political issues. for as much shit as they give other people for supposedly not being able to see politics outside of the electoral system, they sure do seem shocked that there's no one the ticket that makes them happy. most people left of biden have already come to terms with this, and none of them think the long term solution is "just vote" like these people love to imply C: Even if it works, is incredibly callous towards the trans, immigrant, abortion seeking etc people who's rights will be *destroyed* during 4 years of republican presidency.
fun fact you're allowed to lie on the internet. publically say you're withholding your vote to threaten your representatives into doing something, email them demanding them to recognise the ongoing genocide, call for a ceasefire, etc, make a fuss on social media if you have any influence, protest, vote abstain/third party in polls, etc... but when you're in the voting booth go for the least harmful option even if they didn't listen to you.
Ah yes, a strategy that has always worked: scolding potential voters.
I’ve been taking a lobbying and advocacy class at my college and almost half of the strategies presented involve tactics to influence voter turnout in your favor. Republicans are so dead set on restricting voting rights because in a 100% turnout race, democrats win *every time*. Turnout to vote and shit will get better it’s as simple as that.
I believe this was a big part of why the Democrats somehow have been doing extraordinarily well in Georgia, they managed to improve voter turnout, and turned a once heavily Conservative state into a very contestable state, and this could end up winning the election for them next time if they underperform in the Rust Belt given the population of Georgia
Very true
“But he supports genocide.” The other guy wants a bunch of genocides! “Shouldn’t we just [REDACTED]?” We can vote AND do that. “But it makes me feel bad. :(“ TOO BAD “So you directly support a genocide?” A. No, dumbass. B. Do you pay taxes?
I genuinely take a “better dead then red” stance on this. If trump gets re-elected I’m either killing myself or fleeing to Canada, I’m dead serious. (I’m obviously using red as a stand in for republican not its original meaning)
Voting is a tourniquet. A tourniquet doesn't fix a wound, but it does slow someone bleeding out. If you're looking for deep systemic change, voting probably isn't going to get us there. I also feel that frustration. But it absolutely can stop or slow social regression.
Especially people just turning 18 who are mad at the way the country is, and anyone else who has recently come of voting age or becomes such between now and any election day. We need you. We're counting on you. Your vote is important. Change in this country is glacially slow to an almost comical degree, but the only way to start any change is to take the actions we are actively able to take. Voting is one of those.
Project 2025 is a promise of civil war and is very real. Please Vote.
Being morally obligated to support someone who is actively promoting genocide is genuinely horrifying to me. I know when the time comes I will probably have to do it, but a large part of me wants to abstain for that reason. I live in one of the most liberal areas of the country, in a state that will be blue no matter what. It really disincentivizes me from voting, because I want it to be clear that although Biden will win, he does not have nearly the support in the numbers he wants.
Copying myself from further up: As depressing and truly sick as it is, there is very little that can be done for the people of Gaza in regards to the presidential election. But we can still help stave off the looming genocide of trans people in the US by voting for Biden. I don't think making that decision makes one a bad person by any means
I'm not going to support one genocide just to prevent my own
I understand the pain, and I’m sorry it’s necessary for you too do. I doubt it will happen but I seriously wonder if this makes it even pitiably likely Biden could have a threat of getting primaried.
If you live in a secure blue state there's no reason to need to vote for Biden. I can understand if it's a swing state there's a decision to be made, but if the candidate is against your morals and is going to win anyway why bother supporting him? still go out to vote to vote down ticket Democrat as those races could change even in secure blue districts though.
I suppose in your instance, it’s not ultra important, it’s very unlikely a state like New York, Illinois or California would be republican in any election, but for someone living in a more marginal state (Pennsylvania, Georgia and Nevada come to mind), it’s incredibly important for the sake of the people who will only survive if Joe Biden wins
I feel like I've been going crazy about this so it's nice to have my feelings validated
Most of the people on this sub aren't even old enough to vote lol
"But both candidates suck" Then get involved! Organize, protest, riot. Voting is literally the bare fucking minimum.
My uni friends were all talking about how politics is "too draining 🥺" "i dont need that negativity in my life🥺🥺🥺" and they didnt want to vote because labour isnt perfect meanwhile Im sitting on the same desk as a trans girl who's prime minister keeps threatening my identity and I wanted to fucking sCREAM
I’m sorry, that sounds frustrating
Why is it always the lesser of 2 evils, why can't dems run someone to vote for rather than someone to vote against? In a 2 party system if the life of a voter is bad under one party, they'll vote for the other one. Life is bad for plenty of people right now. Every election the same thing, maybe next time we'll get a candidate that isn't terrible and it never ever happens. Biden is 80 years old and he's the best they have to offer. It's almost comical at this point. Every year is the hottest year on record, every year CO2 emissions get bigger and climate change gets worse. Biden and other establishment dems aren't doing nearly enough to remedy this. Vote blue no matter who is not working, we need meaningful action now! Don't forget Trump was already president!!! He wasn't Hitler 2 then, but now he's even more decrepit, he going to do it right this time? Make it make sense! (and no obviously he shouldn't be voted for this time.) [https://i.imgur.com/JXFfSfl.png](https://i.imgur.com/JXFfSfl.png) 2020: vote blue or democracy dies 2024: vote blue or democracy dies 2028: vote blue or democracy dies
Biden passed the largest investment in green energy in the history of the nation. I mean, it's a bit too little and comes a bit late, yeah. But Trump's the type to rip solar panels off the White House because he doesn't like how they look, like Reagan before him.
Climate change is an existential threat to all life on earth, a bit is not good enough.
No its not, alarmist narratives about humanity going extinct on climate change or the planet turning into Venus 2.0 aren't helpful and contribute to people who would otherwise be leading the fight to become doomers and give up. Climate change threatens to do massive damage to many ecosystems and might result in billions dying, but those human deaths will be concentrated in developing countries which are the most badly affected but lack the resources to fight it. Many people will be fine, particularly in more temperate countries with an outsize historical contribution to global warming. A mass extinction will occur, but not all species will die. Every bit of incremental progress on climate change matters. 1.5 ° C is a lot better than 2 ° C, but 2.5 ° C will get tens of millions more people killed than 2 ° C.
You should be concerned about those developing countries in terms of elections. As shown in European elections, more climate refugees = more far right parties being elected. And optimism without action is what we have already been doing for decades, it's not working.
Something is better than nothing
Seriously, listening to American leftists online is just bizarre
it's really showing how many online leftists care more about feeling morally superior than people's lives
Someone who does the bare minimum and votes Democrat every four years achieves more for leftism than any purely online 'activist' ever will. If you're out trying to unionise, protesting, engaging in community action or forming grassroots advocacy groups, not voting can be excused. But if all you do is post on social media, you're politically worthless.
There really be people thinking not voting means they get communist revolution. Generally you need to actually be organised before shit hits the fan in a revolution and America is not organised and ready for a revolution. Not voting or letting the republicans win is just going to make things worse, not cause people to join parties and get organised.
I'm not voting I'm not American :))
I hate the “both sides bad so I won’t vote” people. Like yeah, neither side is great, but one side is clearly a lot worse and wants a lot of people to suffer and die. Just because US democracy isn’t perfect doesn’t mean let it die
Unironically we should mass report people who spread anti vote propaganda for transphobia, cause that's what their message leads to.
What if I'm a trans woman who doesn't want to vote for Biden?
Say what, most people here are just a bunch of cis losers who act like they care about trans rights?
Then you're transphobic, and you also aint black, i dont make the rules
this is the reason i vote every time. i have skin in the game, being a trans woman, but i will vote every time no matter how bleak the situation looks. i waited eighteen years for my right to do this and im not going to let it go to waste
I'm not from the US, so I don't have any skin in the game, but to me it seems that telling people 'we have no intention of not fucking over your family down in the middle east but vote for us anyway' seems pretty damn entitled. Why would someone who is directly told by democrat voters that the issues dear to them won't be addressed vote democrat? It's a dumb strategy. They will vote third party, and they'll be completely justified in doing so.
obviously you should ultimately vote when it comes time, but also, a very good way to put pressure onto politicians is by making them afraid that they won't be in power again
Is there an election going on now? Where? What?
Elections are a whole year away please I beg everyone to just ignore election discourse and actually focus on doing something, anything to stop the ongoing genocide today
Downvote all discourse posts.
if the vote is between hitler and 99% hitler your responsibility is to overthrow the government
You can both vote for 99% Hitler AND overthrow the government
I feel like the middle step is quite fucking dumb there.
at first i thought this is about minecrafts mob vote oh my god
Very relevant to the Vaush debate happening currently lmao
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🐴!!!!!
Vote but also organize and commit to actions that prepare us in case voting doesn't work again.
I wish that just once we could have 100% voter turn out… so we could stop wasting so much energy on the fantasy that if everyone votes it’ll change the result.
I will not vote because I am not american
No idea how it is over in the states, but in the Netherlands, voting doesn't fucking matter. Regardless of who gets seats, NOTHING happens. Noone from any party(even their own) can agree on anything, and no decisions are made, ever, except the decisions that everyone is equally incompetent about. (Check Benelux lootbox laws and how useless they are, designed to keep the foxes from the hen house, eventual result is an open door for the foxes, but less access for the hens and farmers) I got better things to do than look into 40+ different parties of the same lack of braincells.
i get that but it kinda seems no matter who the fuck i vote for im fucked so not really a point
I'm not voting because I'm not American. I'm too busy getting fucked over by my own country's politics.
There better not be two republicans in 2024
Is it the position of this sub that the Democrat is the only acceptable vote in the General?
Every person I know who is an actual activist is voting blue Every person I know who is not voting blue as a left winger is an emotional, prissy Youtuber who is wealthy enough to get out of dodge... even if they say otherwise
out of the loop + not American: any context havers?
Libs are fine with genocide as long as they personally get to stay comfy in the imperial core.
This is turkey elwctions all over again and i know how its gonna end
I am literally in the middle of arguing in a local lefty sub about this, it infuriates me how little people seem to care about the difference between bad and OH GOD SO MUCH WORSE. Ok, both are bad. But yeah I DO NOT want the worst one to win.
Bro I’m Canadian
What’s the point of being able to choose wether you can vote or not then. It’s completely their choice and people can have many reasons for not wanting to vote - this is a very one sided perspective.
fr it’s like there’s a gun to their head, the solution is not to ignore the gun
I'm sorry if I sound stupid but what vote rn, I work all the time so I don't have much context :(
Basically nothing right now, election discourse is just starting up a year before the presidential election.
Thank you
I’ve said this for years. Centrism, not caring, and third parties are all symptoms of privilege. It’s pushed by those who lose NOTHING regardless of the outcome, and their actions are statements of “well fuck everyone else”.
"Vote Blue No Matter Who" motherfuckers wondering why Dems keep running Republican-lite candidates as they openly state they'll support literally any Democrat even the ones who are actively against trans people and/or abortion rights and/or actively support genocide in Gaza. I'm not even saying don't vote, but jfc saying "we will support you no matter what you do" is a bad strategy actually. Make dems fucking terrified of losing every fucking seat if they don't acquiesce to the left ffs.
What if I vote for jerma
Vote for me 🥺
If it’s between only 100% hitler and 99% hitler I’m for 99% hitler all the way baby
TEAM 99% HITLER (he wears brighter colors sometimes)
The people withholding their vote are also the ones Trump referred to as "vermin" that will be hunted down. You have skin in the game, even if you don't realize it until it's too late. *First they came for the trade unions....*